la voie lactee

[andy.d]

I've just seen Luis Bunuel's film 'La Voie Lactee' or 'The Milky Way' which is available on dvd and which I think is excellent. For me, it catches something of my experience of the Camino. I've put some pictures and more reflections on it on my blog here:

http://pilgrimpace.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... ie-lactee/

Andy

 

[Hedwig]

Hello Andy,

Thank you for sharing! I didn't know they called The Camino "The Milky Way".

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Compostela can be translated as "Field of Stars".

Strictly speaking the Camino is not known as the Milky Way.

However, the Camino and the Milky Way are on a parallel line so to speak. One on the earth the other in the sky.

It is known that medieval pilgrims used the milky way to guide them Santiago as the city more or less sits underneath it.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The fact that the band divides the night sky into two roughly equal hemispheres indicates that the Solar System lies close to the galactic plane [of the Milky Way].

The galactic plane is inclined by about 60 degrees to the ecliptic (the plane of the Earth's orbit). Relative to the celestial equator, it passes as far north as the constellation of Cassiopeia and as far south as the constellation of Crux, indicating the high inclination of Earth's equatorial plane and the plane of the ecliptic relative to the galactic plane. The north galactic pole is situated at right ascension 12h 49m, declination +27.4° (B1950) near beta Comae Berenices, and the south galactic pole is near alpha Sculptoris.

The Camino Frances is mostly east to west, so the Milky Way crosses the Camino rather than being parallel overhead, and the position of the two changes during the day/night cycle and the year. It would be a poor guide to Santiago either in the day or at night! Use a compass, map, or GPS to navigate, and enjoy the stars for their intrinsic beauty.

 

[Peter Robins]

Strictly speaking the Camino is not known as the Milky Way

the connection between the two dates at least from the Pseudo-Turpin, according to which Charlemagne had a dream in which the Milky Way showed the way to the resting place of St James.

For those who can read French, there's a detailed expose of the subject by an astronomer at http://lodel.irevues.inist.fr/saintjacq ... .php?id=71 though rather surprisingly it doesn't mention the obvious flaw in the dream: if you follow the direct line linking N Germany with Santiago which might be indicated by the Milky Way, you cross the Bay of Biscay not the Pyrenees.

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Pedantic me again. I didn't say that there was no link between the Camino and the Milky Way, I said that the Camino is not known as the Milky Way.

It is known that medieval pilgrims used the Milky Way because they didn't have compasses, GPS or maps. No yellow arrows either. They probably did have human guides, but if all else failed the milky way was of some assistance.

As long as there were no clouds, it wasn't raining and the sun wasn't out. As a boy I grew up in a village and often went star gazing in the fields beyond.

The Camino requires a streak of romance. In 2007 my son and I walked under the Mily Way from the town of Finisterre to the lighthouse. With little street lighting, few cars and the lights from across the bay, the Milky Way was above us and the experience was magical and mystical.

We didn't let too much science get in the way of a wonderful experience.

 

[Peter Robins]

they didn't have compasses, GPS or maps. No yellow arrows either

true, but then they were following the main road across N Spain - hardly difficult to find, even at night. Modern walkers use the yellow arrows to _avoid_ the main road, but they still need to use the road to cross the main obstacles, such as mountain ranges and rivers. Even if the stars always pointed in the correct direction (which, as Falcon says, they don't), they would not help you find the passes and bridges. So ISTM highly unlikely anyone used such a not-very-useful guide.

ISTM the Milky Way link is simply symbolic, and is not meant to be taken literally (apparently, Moslims have a similar belief that the MW shows the way to Mecca). As you say, the way across the sky mirrors the way across the earth, and it's an obvious metaphor for the journey of life itself. This metaphor dates at least from classical times, and may well be considerably older than that.

(Afraid it's so long since I saw Bunuel's film - 1974, I think - that I can't remember why he called it 'The Milky Way'.)

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

I based my assumption on the authorotative statement by Alsion Raju in her book, The Way of St James, 2002, p200 under the section O Cebreiro.

At night, if it clear, the Milky way (used by pilgrims in centuries gone by to guide them as they walked ever due west).

I had also read the same comment elsewhere but cannot for the life of me think where.

Alison is usually so careful that I thought this was based on sound scholarship. The forward in her book does support your assertion that the Camino Francés followed a main road, so I wonder where this came from?

Fact or poetic licence?

Lost people can navigate their way by the stars and the Milky Way might be accurate enough to get you back on track if for some reason you had wandered off.

However, Alison's statement seems to imply more than that.

Any solutions to this conundrum folks?

 

[andy.d]

It's not clear to me from watching La Voie Lactee recently on dvd as to why it is called that. The pilgrims in it travel only by day. Perhaps it is linked to the strong Marian devotion in the film?

I don't know if this has any bearing on the subject, but the Walsingham Pilgrim Hymn (http://frsimon.wordpress.com/2009/11/10 ... grim-hymn/) contains the verse:

So crowded were roads that the stars, people say,
That shine in the heavens were called “Walsingham Way.”

This is obviously not a historic document (beyond a century ago), but it is very suggestive.

I do recommend the Bunuel film,

Andy

 

[MichaelB10398]

Andy, it is good to hear from you again. I miss reading your posts when you were on Camino last year. On this forum we come from all parts of the world; it is odd how we each can value the posts of others so much. It is almost as if we know them personally. It is one of the pleasures of the Camino that we occasionally get to meet one another. You are someone I hope to meet on the Way some day. God bless,

 

[andy.d]

Thanks Michael - yes the Forum can be really good for this, can't it, and it does introduce you to people you'd love to walk with.

I'm planning a small pilgrimage on the Camino Ingles with my daughter in October (something that will be very significant I think), so I should be more active here soon when I get preparing for it.

Andy

 

[grilly]

I remember reading that the association of The Milky Way with the Way to Compostela (Finistera, really) goes back to pre-Christian times -- when some folks felt called to go the 'end of the world.'

This 'pre-Christian feel' was real to me the first time I reached Galicia and saw the circles of trees and the big slabs of stones used as walls for the fields, an atmosphere that seemed so 'druidic' to me for lack of better words.

I am interested in the Buñuel movie for the way he treats the ideas of religion and pilgrimage. Now I hope to find the DVD

 

[andy.d]

The dvd is available on amazon although you might be able to find it more cheaply elsewhere,

Andy

 

[mspath]

Francois Puel has written an excellent scholarly account of the association of the idea of the Milky Way with the French path to Compostela. In La Voie Lactée indique-t-elle le chemin de Compostelle ? he discusses the importance of the this heavenly route across time and various traditions from classic antiquity through the medieval period.

See François PUEL,
«La Voie Lactée indique-t-elle le chemin de Compostelle ?», SaintJacquesInfo [En ligne], La fabrication des chemins, Pèlerinage et société, mis à jour le : 20/05/2008,
URL : http://lodel.irevues.inist.fr/saintjacq ... .php?id=71

 

[wdbillingsley]

Navigating by Stars: The earth turns, to us it appears that the stars and galaxies such as the Milky Way turn also. The North Star does not appear to turn because it is in alignment with the Earth's axis. Thus the North Star is useful for navigation because it does not appear to move...but you only have a general direction in which to go.

Most of the pilgrims of yesteryear would have been much more familiar with the night sky and using it for direction than we are. I doubt that they were walking at night for a number of reasons however when the moon is full or is near full, it is not difficult to walk in open areas at night.

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

mspath. big thank you for the link. I pasted it into the Google translation service and was easily able to read it.

He makes sense of Alison Raju's statement.

I loved one bit of mistranslation:-

It is visible only at night, dark night, under a clear sky, far from towns, and when the moon is not too embarrassing.

 

[Peter Robins]

for those who want to watch Bunuel's film, it is now available in its entirety on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBPuB6RsIg
As it's still under copyright, I'm not so sure of the legality of this, but shh don't tell anyone.

I first saw this in the 1970s but don't remember it being quite so funny or so reminiscent of Monty Python. And all those views of French roads in the 1960s made me quite nostalgic.