Live-in help required

[Stephen Parker]

My son-in-law has just taken over a hotel in Lurbe-Saint-Christau, near Oloron, on the camino de Santiago. He is looking for someone (individual or couple) to help him with the hotel and restaurant in return for free board and lodging. The work could include serving in the restaurant, helping with hotel reception, and/or general minor building/maintenance work on the hotel itself, which has been mainly unoccupied for a couple of years. You can see the hotel here:

https://www.tripadvisor.fr/Hotel_Re...ationId=101&albumid=101&filter=7&ff=106439777

Please write to me in the first instance, in English or in French, if you are interested or if you would just like more information. I will pass on your enquiries to my son-in-law.

 

[IngridF]

That's a lot of work for free board and lodging. What about potential coverage for accidents during the renovation... and money for other things then lodging and board. Having been in similar situation decades ago, I would want a contract.

 

[Deleted member 39850]

Does Spanish labour law actually permit zero wages for labour? Living with your “employer” without wages or benefits or clearly defined parameters (maybe some of this, maybe some of that, possibly some other thing) is called something else where I’m from, and it was outlawed 200 years ago where I’m from.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Does Spanish labour law actually permit zero wages for labour? Living with your “employer” without wages or benefits or clearly defined parameters (maybe some of this, maybe some of that, possibly some other thing) is called something else where I’m from, and it was outlawed 200 years ago where I’m from.

France

 

[Deleted member 39850]

France

Missed that. I doubt that French labour law would permit it either. It seems rather exploitative regardless of region (my actual point).

 

[Anniesantiago]

Missed that. I doubt that French labour law would permit it either. It seems rather exploitative regardless of region (my actual point).

I don't know. It would certainly be allowed in the US.

 

[SabsP]

Does Spanish labour law actually permit zero wages for labour? Living with your “employer” without wages or benefits or clearly defined parameters (maybe some of this, maybe some of that, possibly some other thing) is called something else where I’m from, and it was outlawed 200 years ago where I’m from.

French labour laws and the strong union position : I very much doubt it is a legal thing.
Please OP do check these issues with a French lawyer specialised in labour laws.

 

[C clearly]

There are also questions of immigration status and work permits.

 

[trecile]

I don't know. It would certainly be allowed in the US.

You mean that it would not be allowed, right?

 

[GettingThere]

Actually this kind of thing is very common internationally these days - volunteering in exchange for board and lodging, on farms or other types of property including those run as hotels etc, helping with restoration or day-to-day operations, is a way a lot of people fund their travels and get interesting experience in other countries - HelpX, WWOOFers, HelpStay and other similar schemes. Usually very short-term, a few weeks at a time, but sometimes longer. It's certainly common in Europe (including France), the USA, UK, NZ and Australia. And definitely legal. Not at all the same as slavery! Visa and immigration rules apply of course and vary as you'd expect - the authorities will be well aware of these schemes and can advise accordingly.

The OP's son-in-law might consider joining one of the schemes I mentioned, or a similar one, if he hasn't already, as a host - this would provide him with some protection and support as well as supporting his potential volunteers, and would give him a wider audience of people who are looking for this kind of opportunity.

 

[trecile]

Actually this kind of thing is very common internationally these days - volunteering in exchange for board and lodging, on farms or other types of property including those run as hotels etc, helping with restoration or day-to-day operations, is a way a lot of people fund their travels and get interesting experience in other countries - HelpX, WWOOFers, HelpStay and other similar schemes. Usually very short-term, a few weeks at a time, but sometimes longer. It's certainly common in Europe including France, the USA, UK, NZ and Australia. And definitely legal. Not at all the same as slavery! Visa and immigration rules apply of course and vary as you'd expect - the authorities will be well aware of these schemes and can advise accordingly.

The OP's son-in-law might consider joining one of the schemes I mentioned, or a similar one, if he hasn't already, as a host - this would provide him with some protection and support as well as supporting his potential volunteers, and would give him a wider audience of people who are looking for this kind of opportunity.

I know that it may be common, but I think that the legality is somewhat murky.
For example from the US Embassy in Germany says this:

Planning to work for room and board on a farm or as an Au Pair/Nanny? Do Woofing? An internship? Even if you stay less than 90 days, these activities are considered work and require the appropriate visa. Visa Waiver Program travelers entering the United States with ESTA authorization are not allowed to work. If you are a Summer Work Travel participant (J-1 visa) you may only work in jobs approved by your designated U.S. sponsor. Informal arrangements to work in exchange for lodging or meals are also considered unauthorized employment and are not permitted for tourists.

​

 

[GettingThere]

I know that it may be common, but I think that the legality is somewhat murky.
For example from the US Embassy in Germany says this:

Planning to work for room and board on a farm or as an Au Pair/Nanny? Do Woofing? An internship? Even if you stay less than 90 days, these activities are considered work and require the appropriate visa. Visa Waiver Program travelers entering the United States with ESTA authorization are not allowed to work. If you are a Summer Work Travel participant (J-1 visa) you may only work in jobs approved by your designated U.S. sponsor. Informal arrangements to work in exchange for lodging or meals are also considered unauthorized employment and are not permitted for tourists.

​

Yes, exactly - as I said, visa rules etc do vary, and it depends on the arrangements in each country. Some have "working holiday"-type visas for younger people, others would require a temporary work permit if from outside the EU - I don't think a tourist visa would be appropriate anywhere. The OP's son-in-law would be responsible for ensuring anyone he took on had the correct type of visa. That's why the organised schemes are often safer for both volunteers and hosts, as they provide a framework and support for navigating the legal issues.

 

[Anniesantiago]

You mean that it would not be allowed, right?

No, I mean people do it all the time here.
I've done it myself.

And honestly, he didn't ask if it was allowed. (Not directed to YOU, but in general)
He asked if anyone was interested.

People are so funny . . . everybody has to be a policeman.

 

[Deleted member 39850]

I don't think it's about policing at all. I think it's about providing information to people who might not realize they are being exploited. Laws exist for precisely that reason. But, admittedly, I'm not a laissez-faire capitalist nor a libertarian.... because exploitation drives me around the bend, and exploiting people's vulnerabilities or lack of awareness is as odious as it would be to exploit their labour for any other reason.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I leave it to adults to make their own decisions about whether or not they are being exploited. I figure if they have the brains to be on this forum, they have the brains to figure out if they want to do work in exchange for room/board. ::shrug::

 

[trecile]

Well, it can be a problem if jobs are going to "volunteers" rather than citizens of the country.

 

[grayland]

This thread is closed for further comments for now.