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COVID Lockdowns

wayfarer

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Please remember to keep all posts Camino related.
EDIT. Just to be clear, when I said Camino related I meant ALL Caminos and other pilgrim routes, just not lockdown info that has no bearing on what this forum is about.
Hope this helps.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
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Catalonia is considering closing all bars and restaurants 'til the end of October.

Catalonia has now done so.


The measures will come into effect on Friday and remain in place for at least 15 days. Under the new rules, restaurants and bars will still be able to provide home delivery and takeaway.
 

JabbaPapa

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France is to impose a sanitary state of emergency from Saturday onwards. Details on what this will entail are scarce at time of writing, but are forthcoming.
 

JabbaPapa

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France has declared a 4-week curfew, 6 weeks if Parliament agrees (Macron wants 6), between 9PM and 6AM in and around Paris, as well as in Lille, Lyon, Grenoble, Montpellier, Rouen, Aix-en-Provence, Marseille, Toulouse and Saint-Etienne and the surrounding areas.



In those locations, bars, restaurants, and other businesses must close at 9PM.

Travel between the affected areas is not however forbidden, so that pilgrimages remain possible in the country. But travel plans via those places would need to be carefully assessed.

I might be getting €150 but I doubt it ; last time it was promised, I didn't. I have an idea why Nice isn't on the list, but it's political, so hmmm

In not really Camino news but it might interest some, antibody tests have been approved in France. Sort of Camino-related nevertheless, as it might help towards moving France out of lockdown-mode if it proves to be a successful method.

Gatherings of more than six people are forbidden in principle, but not formally illegal and so they would mostly be frowned upon administratively to a greater or lesser degree depending on where, what kind of gathering, why, l'age du capitaine, and whatnot.

Not that more than six pilgrims together in those places is likely in this season of the year. The worst potentially affected Albergues in France from the above would be the previously bedbug-infested but lovely Church donativo in Montpellier, and one I don't know in Toulouse.
 
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Lexicos

Jim
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances
2017
Camino Portuguese 2019
The corona virus, like most viruses, has a sole purpose: it wants to get to know you and your family and friends.

It pays for us all to remember that an army divided is an army defeated.

Unless we work together, we will see lock down after lock down and for some of us the Camino will become a distant memory.
 
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JabbaPapa

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The Basque Country region has limited all gatherings to six people, and has ordered that all hostelry and places of worship to reduce capacity by 50%.

Hostelry establishments must close at midnight.
 
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Out of the plethora of news about the newest restrictive measures in European countries, this one struck me as surprising: a couvre-feu, a curfew from 9 pm until 6 am, in Paris and in a number of other large cities in France, among them Toulouse.

Not a big deal for pilgrims of course as we all know that pilgrims are in bed by 9 pm and a majority of pilgrims will be pleased to know that nobody is allowed to leave before 6 am. ☺️
 
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
a couvre-feu, a curfew from 9 pm until 6 am, in Paris and in a number of other large cities in France, among them Toulouse
Ha! Did you know that the word "curfew" is related to the French word "couvre-feu", which means "cover fire". Both words are derived from an Old French word. The original meaning refers to a law made by William the Conqueror that all lights and fires should be covered at the ringing of an eight o'clock bell to prevent the spread of destructive fire within communities in timber buildings. [William came from France, invaded England, stayed and became king. 1066 and all that].

I always associated curfew with war/occupying army. I will look at it more benignly now. ☺️
 
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Ha! Did you know that the word "curfew" is related to the French word "couvre-feu", which means "cover fire". Both words are derived from an Old French word. The original meaning refers to a law made by William the Conqueror that all lights and fires should be covered at the ringing of an eight o'clock bell to prevent the spread of destructive fire within communities in timber buildings. [William came from France, invaded England, stayed and became king. 1066 and all that].

I always associated curfew with war/occupying army. I will look at it more benignly now. ☺️

William was obviously very concerned about the health of the people. It is regrettable that a mere 600 years later when everyone had forgotten about the origins of the word, this happened.

 

JabbaPapa

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Ha! Did you know that the word "curfew" is related to the French word "couvre-feu", which means "cover fire".
And "feu" here refers both to fire as such, and to the fireplace, the hearth -- and from that it meant household, which led to feudal as the family household was the basic constitutive element of that political system, in its original form anyway.

So it meant both "cover your fire" and "keep cover in your household".

/OT
 

JabbaPapa

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The State of Alarm in Madrid will not be prolonged, and so it will come to an end on -- can't remember, Saturday or Sunday ?
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Another lockdown today (Oct. 19) — Navarra is closed. Intra-regional travel is allowed, but no movement in or out.


Key take-away is that for the next fifteen days (starting on Tuesday), no one can enter or leave Navarra without an exceptional reason.

Durante los próximos 15 días no se podrá ni entrar ni salir de Navarra salvo por cuestiones de fuerza mayor.

Judicial approval of the emergency declaration is required, but the president of Navarra says she is optimistic.

Pilgrims walking now are going to have to make some quick decisions.

For those who may be rusty on their Spanish geography, that means Roncesvalles to Logroño on the Francés. A few bits of the Ebro and the Baztán are also affected.
 

JabbaPapa

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A closure of Navarra has been announced, with not many details.

More worryingly for pilgrims, a lockdown of Burgos is being contemplated, bearing in mind that outside of the Francès, apart from Madrid, Palencia and Salamanca have also been locked down.

Aranda de Duero on the Camino Castilla y Aragón has been locked down.
 
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jefferyonthecamino

http://www.barrerabooks.com/ - Guidebooks
Camino(s) past & future
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de Madrid (2019)
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Another lockdown today (Oct. 19) — Navarra is closed. Intra-regional travel is allowed, but no movement in or out.


Key take-away is that for the next fifteen days (starting on Tuesday), no one can enter or leave Navarra without an exceptional reason.

Durante los próximos 15 días no se podrá ni entrar ni salir de Navarra salvo por cuestiones de fuerza mayor.

Judicial approval of the emergency declaration is required, but the president of Navarra says she is optimistic.

Pilgrims walking now are going to have to make some quick decisions.

For those who may be rusty on their Spanish geography, that means Roncesvalles to Logroño on the Francés. A few bits of the Ebro and the Baztán are also affected.
i believe it's safe to say that the 2020 Camino season has ended, other cities and regions will follow suit soon (and we really should not be walking through covid-infested regions).

fingers-crossed for happier times next year. Buen Camino.
 

peregrina2000

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Staff member
a lockdown of Burgos is being contemplated,

My friends in Spain tell me that Burgos has in fact been closed, confirmed here:


This will take effect on Wednesday. But since León and Burgos are in the same region, it makes sense to think the effect on pilgrims will be the same in both cities. Reports we have heard from people walking is that you can walk through León or take the bus around it, but you just can’t stop there.

I will be interested to see how Navarra deals with pilgrims.
 

amancio

Veteran Member
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Dear fellow pilgrims: the whole region of Navarra has an extremely high rate of contagion and it will be locked down starting on Thursday. Technically, you will not be allowed to enter or leave Navarra, which includes from

Roncesvalles to Viana in Francés,
Sangüesa to Puente la Reina (and onto Viana) in Aragonés,
and the Spanish side of Camino de Baztán.

Not the right time at all to visit Navarra or move around inside Navarra.

Situation in La Rioja is worsening too, and the city of Burgos will undergo restrictions like the ones already in place in León.

Please moderators feel free to place this post wherever it might fit best!

I would stay home at this time.
 

JabbaPapa

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I will be interested to see how Navarra deals with pilgrims.
Full details are now available :


Toda Navarra permanecerá confinada a partir de este jueves durante los siguiente 15 días y solo se permitirá la entrada o salida de personas de la comunidad para atender las obligaciones laborales o acudir a los servicios asistenciales y de urgencias. El Gobierno foral también ha anunciado esta tarde el cierre completo de la hostelería

So nobody in or out, and ALL Albergues will be closed.
 

Pelegrin

Veteran Member
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SJPP - Logroño June 2014
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Nobody knows why Navarra has that high infection rate of 950/100.000 compared to other similar and neighbour regions like Basque country (300) and Rioja (500).
 

Pelegrin

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I understand the difference with Galicia because the dispersion of population in that region that also affects the social behaviour. Maybe Navarra does more tests than the neighbours.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
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2019
I understand the difference with Galicia because the dispersion of population in that region that also affects the social behaviour. Maybe Navarra does more tests than the neighbours.
The reasons are far too many to discuss. These will all become apparent when this is all over. The basics are that a virus does what a virus has always done and looks for a host.
Mother always knew best...stay away from people when you have a cold and cover your mouth when you cough and sneeze. The analogy is as important (if not more so) today as ever.
 
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
@Pelegrin, your comment made me curious and I looked up population figures: only 650,000 inhabitants in Navarra of which 200,000 in Pamplona. For what it is worth. I sometimes like to compare figures to places I am familiar with. ☺️
 
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So nobody in or out, and ALL Albergues will be closed.
Just out of curiosity because it is a pretty academic question for us here: Did you read somewhere that “ALL Albergues will be closed”? Because hoteles and casa rurales will not be closed. They must, however, reduce the number of their guests who are served at one table.

The number of pilgrims in Navarra must be pretty tiny anyway by now. Roncesvalles already switched to their winter albergue system some time ago, at least a month earlier than usually. And numerous others may close earlier for winter than usual if they were open at all during this summer
 
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Pelegrin

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@Pelegrin, your comment made me curious and I looked up population figures: only 650,000 inhabitants in Navarra of which 200,000 in Pamplona. For what it is worth. I sometimes like to compare figures to places I am familiar with. ☺️
Galicia with 6% of the Spanish population has 60% of entities with less than 100 people. When you do a camino you see that in Galicia the base is the "aldea" (hamlet) formed by a few houses without services and even streets, whereas in other regions the base is the "pueblo"(town/village) with much more social life.
That feature (of Galicia) has affected the social behaviour because in those hamlets there is very little contact with other people.
Ourense province is a bit different than the other 3 Galician provinces because it has more pueblos than aldeas and now is the province with the highest infection rate in Galicia.
 
Camino(s) past & future
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Galicia with 6% of the Spanish population has 60% of entities with less than 100 people. When you do a camino you see that in Galicia the base is the "aldea" (hamlet) formed by a few houses without services and even streets, whereas in other regions the base is the "pueblo"(town/village) with much more social life. That feature (of Galicia) has affected the social behaviour because in those hamlets there is very little contact with other people
@Pelegrin, I tend not to gush about forum posts or forum posters but I'd like to say how much I for one appreciate the nuanced comments and nuggets of information that you bring to the forum from inside Spain and share here as someone who not only lives in the capital Madrid but grew up in rural Galicia. Thank you!
 

Pelegrin

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@Pelegrin, I tend not to gush about forum posts or forum posters but I'd like to say how much I for one appreciate the nuanced comments and nuggets of information that you bring to the forum from inside Spain and share here as someone who not only lives in the capital Madrid but grew up in rural Galicia. Thank you!
Thank you. @Kathar1na. Following with my previous post, the people who live in the big populated areas of Galicia most of them came from the rural and therefore keep the tradition of "less sociability". Of course there are also an increasing number of people with standard Spanish behaviour in terms of sociabilty.
 

JabbaPapa

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Just out of curiosity because it is a pretty academic question for us here: Did you read somewhere that “ALL Albergues will be closed”? Because hoteles and casa rurales will not be closed.
The El Pais article states that there is to be a complete closure of all hostelry. I quoted it and put that phrase in bold.

Of course if reports on the ground state otherwise, we'll see ...
 
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
The El Pais article states that there is to be a complete closure of all hostelry. I quoted it and put that phrase in bold.
Maybe you need to expand your reading 😇.

Numerous newspapers, including those from Navarra, report this: HOSTELERÍA: CIERRE de bares, cafeterías y restaurantes, establecimientos que solo podrán mantener la actividad para venta de pan y prensa y para venta de comida a domicilio hasta las 21 h. A hoteles y casas rurales se permitirá la restauración para atender a los alojados, en mesas de 4 personas.

I am happy to look up the exact wording in their Official Boletín. The last phrase is the reason why I asked: "Did you read somewhere that 'ALL Albergues will be closed'?
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
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They must, however, reduce the number of their guests who are served at one table.
Anyone sharing a community table with others, whether at a casa rural or elsewhere even with limited numbers, eating and drinking(no mask obviously) definately become more vulnerable. It seems unwise to allow this even though we all love gathering around a table and "breaking bread" together.
 
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JabbaPapa

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I am happy to look up the exact wording in their Official Boletín.
OK it is unavailable -- maybe I assumed too much, but honestly I doubt it, and my sentence is likely to be correct.

Full exact details of the lockdown are still unknown, just the generalities of it.
 

JabbaPapa

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The Spanish Government is considering declaring a new national State of Alarm, in order to allow a national curfew between midnight and 6AM ... :(
 

Richard Kershaw

New Member
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On the Camino Frances (in Oct/Nov 2020)
Another lockdown today (Oct. 19) — Navarra is closed. Intra-regional travel is allowed, but no movement in or out.


Key take-away is that for the next fifteen days (starting on Tuesday), no one can enter or leave Navarra without an exceptional reason.

Durante los próximos 15 días no se podrá ni entrar ni salir de Navarra salvo por cuestiones de fuerza mayor.

Judicial approval of the emergency declaration is required, but the president of Navarra says she is optimistic.

Pilgrims walking now are going to have to make some quick decisions.

For those who may be rusty on their Spanish geography, that means Roncesvalles to Logroño on the Francés. A few bits of the Ebro and the Baztán are also affected.
I hope this may be of help to anyone walking the Frances who is wondering about how the quickly changing situation may affect them.
There is a map of Spain which shows the unfolding lockdown situation by region/municipio produced each day by RTVE, the Spanish broadcaster. The URL contains the date. For 20th October it is;
Today's map shows Navarra in red as previously discussed in this post.
If you're unsure which municipio, or region you're in (or about to enter) see the map on the AMC website at;
Peace and blessings.
 
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JabbaPapa

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Zaragoza, Huesca and Teruel in Aragón are going into lockdown from midnight tonight.

The rest of the region will be in semi-lockdown starting Monday.
 

JabbaPapa

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I've seen today a suggestion that the French Government may extend the "état d'urgence sanitaire" to February, thus continuing to allow locally decided lockdowns and curfews and whatnot.


"France's government is considering extending its state of emergency until 16 February next year."

French source :

 
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JabbaPapa

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There is a long article on the website of the Spanish Amigos association, with comments from Marisol Goikoa, the manager of the Roncesvalles pilgrim albergue, about why the Roncesvalles albergue is closed for now, at least until 1 November when they traditionally open their winter albergue space.

They are closing basically because there will be no food and no drinks to be had for the very few pilgrims that could be expected right now, mainly French and German pilgrims she says who are now barred from walking into and through Navarra. The albergue is not obliged to close. Restaurants and bars are closed because of the current lockdown and what's happening, apparently, is that hotels and private albergues are already closing for the whole winter season until they will open again in March 2021. Which makes sense because like this, they can minimise their losses on staff pay as the staff can potentially claim ERTE support. The Posada hotel takes reservations from March 2021 onwards and if I remember correctly the Hotel Roncesvalles also usually closes for the winter season.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
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Not that it matters much because we all are hunkering down at the moment I guess ☺️ or are not allowed out by our own government anyway but in order to be up to date on this matter: The Council of the European Union published an update today of their recommendation with a list of countries whose residents should not be affected by temporary external borders restriction on non-essential travel into the EU and should therefore be allowed to enter EU countries:
  1. AUSTRALIA
  2. JAPAN
  3. NEW ZEALAND
  4. RWANDA
  5. SINGAPORE
  6. SOUTH KOREA
  7. THAILAND
  8. URUGUAY
  9. CHINA*
As you can see, a few countries have been removed from this list, among them Canada, while Singapore has been added.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
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The Pilgrims Office in Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port announced on their Facebook page that they will close their office:

Given the numerous restrictions on movement in Spain (confinement of the regions of Navarra and Rioja and the cities of Burgos, Leon, Ponferrada, and others to come ...) and the closure of albergues in Spain, in addition to the closure of the route Napoleon as of 1 November 2020 until 31 March 2021, and the almost non-existence of pilgrims departing from Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port, the SJPP Pilgrims Office will close its doors on Sunday 25 October 2020 at 9 pm. [...] A telephone service will be provided until the reopening of the Pilgrims Office, probably in March 2021.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 
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Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
As to the perimeter lockdown of Ponferrada, the situation was confusing: announced on Wednesday for a start on Thursday midnight, the publication of the decree was cancelled on Thursday morning, and this Friday morning the news say it will come for Saturday ...

Latest news: the decree was published in the BOCYL this Friday morning with immediate effect o_O. This to-and-fro, sadly, also reflects the often confusing and ever changing situation concerning current Covid-19 measures in other regions in Europe outside Spain.

So the perimeter lockdown of Ponferrada is indeed established; unlike for Burgos and Leon, there is no special bus service for pilgrims as Ponferrada's territory is relatively small and pilgrims can walk through in a reasonable time covering a reasonable daily distance.
 

natefaith

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We just met two pilgrims that finished walking this week. They said that in some of the smaller towns, it was very difficult to find food. Bars/ cafes/ restaurants were shut, and they would sometimes need to taxi or walk to the next larger town so they could find a grocery store or something open, then taxi back. Seems like walking the Camino is just not easy these days unless you really plan ahead. You can't count on anything.
 

JabbaPapa

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According to El Pais a second national State of Alerm is incoming :

 

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Camino(s) past & future
Many, various, and continuing.
I was in Leon today and it was a bit weird. No police checkpoints (like I experienced last week in Palencia), still plenty of people in the streets and the shops, bars and restaurants (the ones that aren't shut); but a truly remarkable lack of vehicle traffic. I was able to choose from a dozen parking spots right outside the post office! The San Francisco pilgrim albergue is closed. I was told by a guy with a backpack that "if you're a pilgrim, you just have to change your title to 'homeless' and you'll get a bed."
Oh, even with fewer cars, the parking police are still hard at work writing tickets!
 
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New news. From the Facebook page of the Association of the Municipalities of the Camino: the perimeter lockdowns of Leon, Burgos [and Ponferrada] have ended. They are replaced by a curfew from 10 pm to 6 am. The special pilgrims buses for Burgos and Leon will no longer run from Monday 26 October. Pilgrims can now spend the night in Leon and in Burgos [and Ponferrada] again. The Spanish word for curfew is toque de queda.

Toque de queda.jpg
 

JabbaPapa

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Well, let's just say I'm rather unhappy about the following, but ...

Spain has declared a State of Alarm to last until 9th May. (!!!)
And a national 11PM to 6AM curfew.

France has declared a state of "sanitary emergency" until February 16th.

Italy has ordered all bars and restaurants to close at 6PM. (!!!)
 
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JabbaPapa

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Spain has declared a State of Alarm to last until 9th May.
The Government does need parliamentary approval, though the opposition in Parliament may seek to limit the duration to eight weeks, and the end of December.


And the decree itself might be challenged :

Casado has criticized several aspects of the new decree. He has questioned why, under the state of alarm, power now falls to the regional governments and not to the central administration, arguing the executive is “sheltering itself” behind the regions. Casado has said that the decree includes “aspects that may go against the Constitution itself,” such as the provision that “there will be no jurisdictional control” over the coronavirus restrictions. Under the state of alarm, regional governments can issue measures that restrict movement without needing to request permission from a court on a case-by-case basis.

But there is consensus for this to last until just before Christmas I suppose, so this is the important aspect of it for Pilgrims. But more fireworks to come I suspect.
 
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jefferyonthecamino

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The Government does need parliamentary approval, though the opposition in Parliament may seek to limit the duration to eight weeks, and the end of December.


And the decree itself might be challenged :

Casado has criticized several aspects of the new decree. He has questioned why, under the state of alarm, power now falls to the regional governments and not to the central administration, arguing the executive is “sheltering itself” behind the regions. Casado has said that the decree includes “aspects that may go against the Constitution itself,” such as the provision that “there will be no jurisdictional control” over the coronavirus restrictions. Under the state of alarm, regional governments can issue measures that restrict movement without needing to request permission from a court on a case-by-case basis.

But there is consensus for this to last until just before Christmas I suppose, so this is the important aspect of it for Pilgrims. But more fireworks to come I suspect.

just a small clarification

the government does not need parliamentary approval for the first 15 days of the state of alarm, which began last sunday. so at the moment, the state of alarm and everything that goes with it is effective until november 8th-ish.

(after this first 15-day period, the government will require parliamentary approval to extend the state of alarm. this extension can be anywhere from 15 days to the rest of our lives (i believe there is no duration limit). last spring our state of alarm was renewed every 15 days, and it was a nightmare (my opinion). this autumn, the government is aiming to avoid this continuous need for the decree renewal; however, as you rightly pointed out, i would say that the majority of our MPs in the opposition are only willing to extend the state of alarm for another 8 weeks after these first 2 weeks and then reassess the epidemiological situation in spain)
 
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just a small clarification
Thank you, @jefferyonthecamino, for this small but important clarification.

The range of legal instruments for imposing restrictions on constitutionally guaranteed rights and freedoms of individuals in connection with the fight against communicable diseases is quite different from one country to the next.

To give an example: Unlike two other countries that come to mind, Spain doesn't have a Biosecurity Act that would allow the Spanish government to prohibit their citizens from leaving the country, and for an undetermined period of time to boot, or a Protection against Infection Act that would allow the Spanish regions, let alone the Spanish municipalities, take appropriate measures on their own.

Judging by today's news from Spain, I understand that there are voices who want, before this year is over, a legal reform that would allow restrictions on movement to be approved without the need to declare or maintain the "State of Alarm". The State of Alarm is the least severe and the least restrictive of the three states of emergency defined in the Spanish constitution of 1978.
 
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JabbaPapa

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Andalucía, Madrid and Castilla y León are considering going into lockdown before the All Saints Day weekend.
 

JabbaPapa

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France has declared a state of "sanitary emergency" until February 16th.
The French Senate has shortened this to 31st January.

But Macron is to announce further measures this evening.
 

jefferyonthecamino

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Thank you, @jefferyonthecamino, for this small but important clarification.

The range of legal instruments for imposing restrictions on constitutionally guaranteed rights and freedoms of individuals in connection with the fight against communicable diseases is quite different from one country to the next.

To give an example: Unlike two other countries that come to mind, Spain doesn't have a Biosecurity Act that would allow the Spanish government to prohibit their citizens from leaving the country, and for an undetermined period of time to boot, or a Protection against Infection Act that would allow the Spanish regions, let alone the Spanish municipalities, take appropriate measures on their own.

Judging by today's news from Spain, I understand that there are voices who want, before this year is over, a legal reform that would allow restrictions on movement to be approved without the need to declare or maintain the "State of Alarm". The State of Alarm is the least severe and the least restrictive of the three states of emergency defined in the Spanish constitution of 1978.

There are jurists that argue that the latter would be unconstitutional, and therefore any attempted reform pointless. They argue that the Autonomous Communities can 1) already use the current General Public Health Legislation (indeed, many have these last months successfully - Galicia, Cataluña, Navarra...) and then hope their corresponding Autonomous High Courts don't overturn their decisions, or 2) use the State of Alarm as in instrument that overrides Autonomous High Court rulings.
In any case, there are a lot of politics involved and I am not a jurist.

What we will (most likely) know this week is how long the extended State of Alarm will last (as of November 8th). This may be probably be of interest for 2021 pilgrims.
 

JabbaPapa

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Well, France is going into a great big lockdown again from tomorrow until December 1st.

No travel between regions, bars and restaurants will be closed, incoming travel only from the EU with some possible exceptions, including people needing to travel home.

Apart from going to work and going shopping, seeing your doctor, etc, people are supposed to stay in or near their homes. Churches etc will probably be ordered to stop Mass etc from Monday, though there's some doubt here as the Council of State had ruled against such measures in May.

Macron declared he doesn't "believe" in herd immunity, and that if nothing's done there will be "400,000 deaths", which is over ten times the total number so far, and I have no idea where he's getting that number from, as it seems to be rather unrealistic.

There has in any case been a worrying increase in the number of severe cases of the disease requiring hospitalisation, so the hospitals are starting to be somewhat overburdened.

From a personal perspective, at least this time I know that those with a disability have greater allowances than most ; and it's a good thing I got my army boots from Marseilles before all this. Also, nearby Monaco is not going into lockdown -- there's not even a curfew.
 
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JabbaPapa

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In Spain, only Extremadura, Cantabria, Galicia, and the Canary Islands are not in regional lockdown, lasting elsewhere and for the time being 'til 9th November.
 

JabbaPapa

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Catalonia will likely instate weekend lockdowns in Barcelona and the big towns.

Parliament is debating the extension of the state of alarm 'til that May date.
 
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The albergue Jesús y Maria in Pamplona is closed for pilgrims and will provide beds for homeless people instead.

Diario de Navarra​
26/10/2020
The City Council will once again adapt the albergue Jesús y María in Pamplona as a night-time shelter for homeless people. As they did in March during the first wave of the Covid-19 pandemic, the Social Services are setting it up to serve the most vulnerable members of the population, so that they will have a place to stay in view of the night-time curfew imposed by the recent declaration of a State of Alarm.
The albergue Jesús y María is usually used as accommodation for tourists and for pilgrims on the Camino de Santiago. However, as of today, Monday, the albergue no longer provides this service. In view of the current situation, and in order to provide a social response to the new needs, the City Council is working to make the space available in an immediate way for people who live on the streets and spend the night in public spaces (near cash machines, under bridges, in abandoned buildings...).

The albergue Jesús y Maria can house up to 40 persons between 20:30 in the evening and 8:30 in the morning.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 

JabbaPapa

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The Madrid lockdown has become a weekend one til midnight +1 on November 3rd in the morning, with the approval of the national Government.
 
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JabbaPapa

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The seven largest towns in Galicia are now in lockdown.
 
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To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
And this was published by AMCS on their Facebook page two hours ago:

Attention Pilgrims:​

This is the situation on the Camino Francés:​

Santiago de Compostela: City perimeter confinement 30/10/20 at 15:00​
Castilla y León: Perimeter confinement from 30/10/2020 at 14:00​
La Rioja: Perimeter confinement 30/10/2020​
Aragon: Perimeter confinement 27/10/2020​
Navarra: Perimeter confinement 22/10/2020​

Until now, we have been able to help pilgrims with the bus service to the confined cities, but we, from the Association of Municipalities of the Camino de Santiago (AMCS), the International Fraternity of the Camino de Santiago (FICS) and the Federation of Associations of Friends of the Camino de Santiagos, want to convey that the most responsible thing at this time is to leave the pilgrimage to Santiago for later.

We also wish to convey that the general rule agreed with the Guarda Civil and explicitly supported by the Regional Government of Castilla y León is that pilgrims who have entered the Autonomous Community of Castilla y León before the regional confinement, namely before 30th October at 14:00, may continue their pilgrimage through this area until they reach the gates of the City of Santiago, which they will not be able to enter.

On the other hand, those pilgrims who plan to arrive in the Autonomous Community of Castilla y León after the 30th of October must be aware that they will not be able to travel through it legally.

In any case, it is envisaged that there will be open albergues, complying with all the necessary health regulations, to attend to pilgrims who are doing the Camino at this time. It is recommended that all of them inform themselves beforehand.​
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) - corrections welcome.​
The original announcement in Spanish is here: https://www.facebook.com/asociacionmunicipios
 
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JabbaPapa

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We also wish to convey that the general rule agreed with the Guarda Civil and explicitly supported by the Regional Government of Castilla y León is that pilgrims who have entered the Autonomous Community of Castilla y León before the regional confinement, namely before 30th October at 14:00, may continue their pilgrimage through this area until they reach the gates of the City of Santiago, which they will not be able to enter.
The last point is not entirely correct at present, as Santiago is under lockdown til midnight between Monday and Tuesday for the time being.

Some people may need to wait 'til Tuesday to finish their Camino, provided that the lockdown is not extended.

Thanks for the info !!
 
Camino(s) past & future
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The last point is not entirely correct at present, as Santiago is under lockdown til midnight between Monday and Tuesday for the time being.
Actually, I hesitated when I typed the phrase "which they will not be able to enter". I wondered whether I should express my personal doubts but then I decided to simply translate the announcement by ACMS as is and without personal comments. The tourism department of the Castilla y Leon administration has obviously thought about the situation of pilgrims when they introduced restrictions on mobility for their region, and they were able to clearly communicate their rules applicable to pilgrims. This cannot be said about the tourism department of the Galicia administration. All I found was an interview with them that was published this morning by Galiciapress. Here's an extract:

In this respect, the perimeter closures of the autonomous communities, as decreed by Asturias and Castile & Leon who are neighbours to Galicia, are a major factor for the situation of the pilgrims. The Councillor for Tourism in Galicia admits that he still has "a meeting pending" with the Xunta de Galicia to pass on the consultations regarding the situation of the Camino de Santiago, since pilgrimages "in principle do not seem to be an exceptional activity [meaning an activity that is exempt from the restrictions as defined in the decree] among the restrictions on mobility".

In other words, the administration had no clear view yet how the decree establishing wide ranging restrictions on entering and leaving the city of Santiago applies to pilgrims on the road although the decree became law this afternoon.

This is surprising to me, given that the Camino de Santiago plays such a huge role for the economy and for tourism in Galicia and in particular in Santiago. As we can see here on the forum and elsewhere, people speculate about what foot pilgrims are allowed to do and what not, and nobody knows any precise details.


 
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JabbaPapa

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Galicia has clarified the situation for those Pilgrims presently on the Way.

Generally speaking : peregrinos que se encuentren en estos días en territorio gallego pueden continuar su estancia con normalidad, siempre y cuando no se encuentren o quieran desplazarse a ayuntamientos perimetrados, respetando todas las medidas sanitarias establecidas.

So that Pilgrims can generally continue in Galicia whilst avoiding any locked down municipalities.

However : Hay una excepción: los peregrinos que ya habían estado en camino hoy y puedan demostrarlo con los sellos, sí podrán acceder a Santiago y pernoctar en la capital, pero siempre respetando escrupulosamente las medidas sanitarias vigentes, entre ellas el uso obligatorio de máscara.

Those Pilgrims who were already walking at the moment of the lockdowns may continue "normally" into Santiago.

As written, this would seem to be inclusive of all Pilgrims who were walking at the moment of these lockdowns, regardless which Region they were in at the time. Possibly even which Country.

EDIT -- this is from a Press Release by the Galicia Tourism Office and the Xunta.
 
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JabbaPapa

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Pilgrims still must avoid and may not sleep in the following Municipalities in Galicia :

Ames, Teo, Narón, Ferrol, Fene, Neda, Pontevedra, Poio, Marín, A Coruña, Arteixo, Vigo, Lugo, Vimianzo.

And there are local restrictions in Ourense, Barbadás, Vilardevós, Verín, Oímbra, O Carballiño, Boborás, and O Irixo.
 
Camino(s) past & future
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Galicia has clarified the situation for those Pilgrims presently on the Way.
Oh yes, this is according to "fuentes de la Vicepresidencia Primera de la Xunta", I posted a link to the news article in another thread. What I don't get is why this is always reported in such a contorted way, an unnamed source here, another one there, and they don't say quite the same. Wouldn't it be better if the administration issued a press release, and did so in time, that can then be taken up by the various stakeholders - FB groups, online communities like this one, pilgrims associations?

In any case, current pilgrims seem to manage just fine. 83 pilgrims claimed their Compostela this Saturday, about 6,500 Compostelas were issued in total during this month of October, and tomorrow it will be November!

About 8,000 Compostelas were claimed in November 2019. How many this November, any bets? More than one thousand or not even that many?
 

Pelegrin

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Pilgrims still must avoid and may not sleep in the following Municipalities in Galicia :

Ames, Teo, Narón, Ferrol, Fene, Neda, Pontevedra, Poio, Marín, A Coruña, Arteixo, Vigo, Lugo, Vimianzo.

Those municipalities are part of metropolitan areas(MA): Ames and Teo are part of Santiago MA; Narón, Fene and Neda are part of Ferrol MA called Ferrolterra and Arteixo is Coruña MA
 
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Members might like to remember the point of this forum and avoid point-scoring where possible.

From this thread, and others, and the easily accessible information on reliable, and dubious, news-sites it is obvious that pilgrims to the shrine of Santiago face challenges way beyond the norm. Those challenges are also faced by sportifs, holiday hikers, and particularly anybody who lives, works or is just trying to live in northern Spain or much of Europe. Ping-pong play around the meaning of meaning contributes nothing to the current situations or to this forum.

So, can those who are in a position to report the realities of life on the caminos de Santiago please continue to do so and could the rest of us who can only rely on second or even third hand sources and internet-available b*llocks please defer.
 

JabbaPapa

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As for Castilla y León : Los peregrinos que hayan entrado en Castilla y León antes del inicio del cierre de la comunidad, podrán atravesar las distintas provincias castellanas y leonesas. Además, se prevé que existan albergues abiertos, cumpliendo toda la normativa sanitaria necesaria, para atender a los peregrinos que se encuentren haciendo el Camino.

So, as in Galicia, Pilgrims who were in the province when the lockdown was implemented may continue on through the province. They must still avoid entering Burgos and Léon. The bus service for pilgrims through these cities is maintained. Some Albergues remain open.

Other Pilgrims are required to go instead by bus through Castilla y León to Piedrafita do Cebreiro.
 

JabbaPapa

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As to the Francigena, England is now in lockdown, as is of course France -- and Switzerland has introduced measures preventing travelers from the Hauts-de-France and Île de France regions entering the country, even were this sort of travel feasible in France. But a Via Romea starting in Switzerland should still be possible, as there is still no lockdown in either Italy or Switzerland.

Italy has ordered bars and restaurants to close at 6PM and is considering some local city lockdowns, but as people know, such measures are being hotly contested in the streets.
 
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mspath

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If you are in France and hope to travel now during lockdown you need permission papers and to book any long distance train well in advance. As of today 03/11/2020 French trains both long distance and TGVs have had schedules reduced during the confinement lockdown.
 
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JabbaPapa

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All bars and restaurants in Castilla y León are ordered to close from Friday.
 

Pelegrin

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All bars and restaurants in Castilla y León are ordered to close from Friday.
The regional government wants also the population to be confined at home (also Asturias) but the central gov. rejects it for the moment (maybe the current Estado de Alarma doesn`t allow this).
Very complicated here. It seems it was easier in England that I realized because the Boris Johnson´s decree that doesn´t have regional government and the UK gov. always decides
 
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The regional government wants also the population to be confined at home (also Asturias) but the central gov. rejects it for the moment (maybe the current Estado de Alarma doesn`t allow this).
Very complicated here. It seems it was easier in England that I realized because the Boris Johnson´s decree that doesn´t have regional government and the UK gov. always decides

I found your remarks re England/UK just a little difficult to interpret.

Health matters in the UK are "devolved" to constituent countries/provinces viz England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. So there can be different rules re Covid for each of these areas.
Presently, Wales is in a form of lockdown, Scotland has a "level" system (0 to 4, with increasing restrictions as the number rises), Northern Ireland has its own regulations and England is about to enter a lockdown from Thursday until 2 December.
 

Pelegrin

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I found your remarks re England/UK just a little difficult to interpret.

Health matters in the UK are "devolved" to constituent countries/provinces viz England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. So there can be different rules re Covid for each of these areas.
Presently, Wales is in a form of lockdown, Scotland has a "level" system (0 to 4, with increasing restrictions as the number rises), Northern Ireland has its own regulations and England is about to enter a lockdown from Thursday until 2 December.
Yes but the lockdown of England was decided by Boris Johnson not by the regional government of England as far as I know.
Here in Spain if president Sanchez decided the same lockdown for Madrid,
the regional gov. would strongly opposite because president Ayuso is firmly against. We are fed up about their permanent fight.
 
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Yes but the lockdown of England was decided by Boris Johnson not by the regional government of England as far as I know.
Here in Spain if president Sanchez decided the same lockdown for Madrid,
the regional gov. would strongly opposite because president Ayuso is firmly against. We are fed up about their permanent fight.

At the risk of being accused of pedantry...

Boris Johnson is Prime Minister of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

There is then the Scottish Government, Welsh Parliament and the Northern Ireland Executive. There is no equivalent assembly/executive for England ; many English residents think that there should be!

Health matters are "devolved " as in my first post. When the Prime Minster is speaking re health (e.g. Covid restrictions) he is, by default, referring to the situation in England but not the three other areas.

So you are correct to say that the English lockdown was decided/promulgated by Johnson but there is no "regional government" of England to object.

PS : let's not forget the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man ; these have health systems of their own but I am no expert on their Covid regulations...

Edited to correct English usage.
 
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JabbaPapa

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Italy has instituted a curfew.

Comments regarding the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are of course interesting, but Gibraltar is the more pertinent territory to look at Camino-wise.

There is a semi-lockdown in Gibraltar.
 

JabbaPapa

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Galicia is closing all bars and restaurants in 60 municipalities from Friday at 3pm onward, and likely for a month. Among these areas are seven cities: Vigo, A Coruña, Ourense, Santiago, Pontevedra, Lugo and Ferrol..
 
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JabbaPapa

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The lockdown in France is likely to be extended to December 20th.
 

JabbaPapa

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Some municipalities in the Madrid region are coming out of lockdown.
 

JabbaPapa

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In Italy, Lombardy, Bolzano, Piedmont and Aosta Valley in the north, Campania, Tuscany, and Calabria are all in lockdown.
 

JabbaPapa

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Valencia, Castilla-La Mancha, Cantabria, and Navarre are to remain in lockdown 'til at least November 24th, whilst other regions will be opening up again.

Bars and restaurants in Catalonia are to reopen on November 23rd for at least daytime service.
 

JabbaPapa

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Bars and restaurants in Catalonia are to reopen on November 23rd for at least daytime service.
From Monday, it turns out bars and restaurants will be able to stay open until 9:30 PM.

Outdoor seating areas at bars and restaurants will have no limit on attendance, while indoor capacity will be capped at 30%. This upper limit will be raised to 50% on December 7.

Gyms and indoor sports facilities will also reopen on Monday at 30% of capacity, which is raised to 50% for outdoor ones. Shops over 800 square meters in size, will be allowed to reopen at 30% of capacity.

Catalonia's regional borders remain closed -- but some easing of restrictions to travel within the region is planned for December 7th. From the 21st weekend travel throughout the region will be allowed, which will presumably include Christmas and New Year.

A further relaxation of lockdown is planned for January 4th.
 

JabbaPapa

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The Madrid region shall go into a regional lockdown between the 4th and 13th of December.
 

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