Lost parcel?

[Adele_HK]

Hi there,
Does anyone have experience sending parcel from France to Portugal?
I had to send my trekking poles from Paris airport post office to a Lisbon post office while taking the budget airline. I sent them on 23rd morning and was told they would arrive in 4 days.
This morning I went to the post office and asked for my parcel. However the lady behind the desk told me it is not in Portugal using the Portugal system, while I tracked it with LaPoste and it said it has been delivered to the location.
I wonder if anyone had experienced problem like me before? Would I have to wait for another day to see if it is in Portugal or not? I am planning to start my Camino the day after tomorrow and I am really frustrated right now.
Could someone please suggest me what to do now? Thanks.

Adele

 

[natefaith]

Hi Adele and welcome to the forum.

@t2andreo just had problems shipping a parcel within Portugal. It's not the same at all but perhaps he has suggestions for what you can do now.

Hope it works out for you in the end!
Faith

 

[t2andreo]

Well, Faith is correct, insofar as it goes. I have sent parcels from France to Santiago, and from Spain to Santiago.

This year, I sent several parcels of varying sizes from Lisbon & Porto, Portugal to Santiago. So, yes, I do have experience with LePoste, and El Correios (Portugal & Spain). The acronym for the Portuguese postal system is CTT.

Generally, items mailed from Spain to Spain arrive FAST.

The simple and short answer is to give it another BUSINESS DAY then go and ask for your items. Plus, if you have not yet done so, download the el Correios app for Spain and the CTT app for Portugal. You should be able to use the French tracking number in either app. I have done so in the past and it actually worked.

Just because one app says the parcel was delivered, does not mean the receiving location actually is aware that they have the item. Gotta love it...

Here is a longer explanation of how things work sometimes, based on my recent experience. I had the folks at Pilgrim House in stitches laughing over the absurdity of this experience.

Generally, and wholly contrary to any logical sense of how a EU mail system SHOULD function, when you mail something from one EU country to another, here is the shipping model:

1. The source post office receives your parcel and enters it into its tracking system.

2. The parcel is sent first to regional or provincial collection points, and then to the national international import / export collection center.

Yes, even though you might be sending something 100 Km in a straight line from country A to country B, the entire EU mail system, functions as though the EU never existed. One suspects there are tens of thousands of well-paying jobs across the EU at risk if anyone even suggests centralizing the mail system so it resembles something rational and logical like FedEx or DHL. But, I digress...

So, using my recent example of sending items from Coimbra or Porto, Portugal to Santiago, Spain: the originating post office took my parcel, my money, and issued a receipt with tracking number. I previously downloaded the CTT & Correios iPhone apps from the app store. These apps exist for Android users as well.

3. The originating post office has the parcel picked up after close of business and sent to the central, national collection point for exporting something to another FOREIGN country. In my case, items mailed from Coimbra or Porto went south to Lisbon.

4. If the system works well this takes 1-2 business days. From Lisbon, the "exported" parcel travels to Madrid. I do not know if it travels by air or land, but the transit seemed to take about 1-2 business days for the four parcels I tracked over several weeks. S0, now, we have used 2-4 business days... and we are nowhere near Santiago yet...

5. From the Spanish post office "import" facility at Madrid, the parcel goes into the Spanish distribution system.

6. Most of the time, the parcel would be delivered to one of several locations in Santiago in another 1-2 business days. I mailed four parcels before and during my recent stroll on the Portuguese route. The typical time when everything worked as it should (for the first three parcels) was 6 business days, door-to-door.

Now comes the "fun" part. The last parcel I sent was from Porto to Ivar in Santiago. I knew I would be in Santiago in about 10 days +/-. So, it seemed reasonable to assume, given my recent positive experiences and a really good CTT tracking system that Ivar would receive my parcel several days before I arrived.

Using the CT tracking system, I followed this parcel (weighing about 3.5 Kg) from Porto to the import / export facility at Lisbon. Then something weird happened. First, one day later, the tracking system reported "International Dispatch." Two days after the box left Porto, the tracking system was reporting "Export Cancellation..." WTF?

Three days later, the tracking system showed the parcel was now at some place called "National Reception, in Loures, Portugal (a suburb of Lisbon)."

One day after that, the parcel is reported to be in "National Dispatch, also in Loures, Portugal." This is telling me that the parcel is being returned to sender, likely to the return address on the parcel. This raises an interesting problem. The CTT REQUIRES that you have a Portuguese return address. So, I used the last planned address in Portugal where I had a lodging reservation, in Rubaies, a day before Tui.

Now, I had to contact this kind person to ask his assistance, should the box show up there. Fortunately, as a long time pilgrim himself, he readily agreed to help.

Now the CTT tracking system is showing the box back in National Reception, having moved from National Dispatch...are you confused yet? Well I certainly was.

Later that same day, the box is moved BACK again to National Dispatch, presumably to be dispatched somewhere...

Two days after that, or 190 calendar days from when I posted the box, it is finally "In Distribution." Now I am convinced the box is going to the return address in Rubaies. So, I recontact the fellow there to update him on all this information.

Now, I have arrived at Santiago. So, I met with Ivar to explain this farcical situation. He then tells me about similar situations where parcels have simply gone "walkabout" in the Portuguese mail system, sometimes never to be spat out. Did I say they have an excellent tracking system?

Meanwhile, on the tenth elapsed day, delivery is attempted - somewhere! The CTT tracking system duly reflects "Delivery Failure."

The next day, the 11th elapsed day, the tracking system, reflects the parcel is once again "In Distribution." This is starting to sound like the children's story "The Little Engine That Could..."

FINALLY, the next day, 19th May, 11 days since I posted the box, anticipating a six-day delivery time, the CTT tracking system reflects "Delivery Success." YEAH! But, just where was the box delivered?

The CTT tracing system contains no further details. However, on 23 May, 14 days from initial mailing at the Porto post office, Ivar sends me an e-mail telling me he received my box in good order. Go figure!

Now, by this time, I have left Santiago and am...wait for it...Lisbon. So, the logical solution to connecting me to this parcel is to ask Ivar to hold onto it until I return in mid-July to work as a volunteer at the Pilgrim Office for a month. Problem solved...Sheesh! You did not think I was going to risk sending it to me at Lisbon?

I do not know if this helps. But, I am trying to inculcate that European postal systems have a mind of their own...at least in my experience.

When sending something between two EU countries, you need to plan a lot of slack time and modify your expectations of efficiency. Remember, each country does things differently. It is not a question of good or bad, better or worse. It is what it is. YOU need to accommodate the system and always have a Plan B. The system is NOT going to alter itself to suit you.

Now, I hope this all helps put things into context.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

YOU need to accommodate the system and always have a Plan B.

Or a new plan A: Bus to Santiago, hand the parcel to Ivar, bus back, walk to Santiago.

 

[Adele_HK]

Guess what...I just checked with the LaPoste tracking again. And it says "Your parcel has been returned to the sender because of a refusal by the addressee."

I think I read it before I could send a parcel to a post office to collect it in person....am I making a stupid mistake in the first place?

 

[t2andreo]

Now why did I not think of that?

Well, for one reason, I have two personal rules that I rigorously adhere to while on Camino:

1. Unless someone is screaming for help, I NEVER walk backwards or cover the same ground twice. Covering the ground once is difficult enough for me. So, that argues against delivering the package myself.

2. I NEVER take side trips to "scenic overviews" or interesting ruins...etc. This is a personal rule. But, if my destination is Santiago, anything that diverts me from that path is just contributing to sapping what remaining energy I have to do this in the first place. If I were 20 or 30 years younger, I might reconsider rule #2.

I actually DID have a viable Plan B. That was to get to anywhere in Spain with a post office and mail the parcel from a Spanish post office. I opted not to do this for two reasons:

1. The previous three parcels all went to Santiago in six calendar days without a hitch. here was NO reason to suspect that parcel #4 would get lost for a week or more.

2. There were no convenient bus or train connections that would have taken me East from Porto into Western Spain, and back, without violating Rule #1 above.

Hindsight always being 20-20, I could have carried the additional 3.5 Kg into Spain at Tui and mailed it to Santiago from there. But, that defeated the original reason for mailing the stuff in the first place. I did not want to carry it one meter more than I needed to.

Anyone who knows me will tell me that I obsess about carried weight, but have never been able to get my rucksack under 10-11 Kg, even without carrying a sleeping bag, liner, towel, etc. In past years, Ivar even gave me a multiple-parcel (Camino idiot's) discount, like when I would send him more stuff from my rucksack every week. I think my record so far is five boxes for a month-long Camino Frances. Some day...

It is not my fault the Portuguese mail system runs the way it does. I am the victim here, not the cause.

 

[t2andreo]

Adele:

My experience with parcel delivery within France suggests you should buy new trekking poles and call it a learning lesson. That is likely to be the best option among the several sorts of interventions you might consider.

Depending on the return address you used, your poles will end up in a "black hole" just like my Portuguese parcel did. But, past experience with parcel delivery in France suggests it will just be lost forever. I learned never to trust the French postal system to make any effort to sort out a problem.

I wish I could be more positive. As it is said in French, C'est domage!

This said, this is also one reason why I personally ALWAYS check my rucksack with the poles attached or inside. It eliminates the last minute procedure you had to go through. In the end, you likely will spend much more than it would have cost you to have checked your rucksack with the poles in the first place.

My checked rucksack rides in a nylon laundry bag, bought in a dollar store. This protects the rucksack, keeps the poles with my gear, and the ludicrous color of the laundry sack ensures no one else would even think of touching it on the baggage carousel.

I hope this helps.

 

[Adele_HK]

I didn't realise traveling with trekking poles is such a hassle.
My poles will definitely be in a black hole as I didn't have a French return address instead I wrote my address back home in Hong Kong, which I am sure they won't send it.
Lesson learnt. Probably will never send anything away again! It is not the time it takes for delivery that frustrates me but the fact that my parcel shall never reach me does!
Thanks for all your help btw!

 

[JCLima]

Sorry to read about this frustrating sequence of events. It sounds as if you had prepared everything thoroughly. I suppose you did address your parcel to the Lisbon post office exactly as instructed on their website, i.e. first your own name, then the words Posta Restante followed by details of the post office's address etc.

I love this forum. I've never heard of this service, neither as any of my family members LOL
Looks like someone has to delete her previous reply.

 

[t2andreo]

For what is is worth, Black Diamond make a series of collapsible hiking poles that fold in a "Z" like configuration. When collapsed fully, they measure about 16 inches or 41 cm long. Both poles together easily fit vertically in my rucksack. When traveling, but not on Camino, they fit easily under the top flap, horizontally.

In my experience, this makes them the shortest collapsed hiking poles I have yet come across. I just finished the Camino Portuguese from Lisbon using them. They are an improvement over the Leki poles primarily as they weigh half as much.

That is the good news, the bad thews is that they are made of carbon fiber, not aluminum alloy. So, they are very expensive. But, life is full of trade offs.

I know that hindsight is always 20-20, but you short enough poles to attach to your rucksack, and had you paid the nominal fee to check the entire assembly, you would not have to replace the poles, likely at a cost exceeding the bag check charge...just sayin...

I hope this helps.