• For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here.
    (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation)

Search 69,459 Camino Questions

More safety on the Camino

Status
Not open for further replies.

MikePeregrino

New Member
Time of past OR future Camino
October 2014: Via Coloniensis (Germany)
May 2015: Camino Francés
May or September 2016: Camino Francés
Dear pilgrims,

we are two guys that walked the Camino Francés in May 2015. My name is Michael, 50 yrs old and I’m from Cologne, Germany. My Camino buddy and now friend is Marco, 30 yrs old and from Milan, Italy.

We arrived at Astorga six weeks after Denise Thiem disappeared in that area and just one day after the attempt to pull a woman into a car. Luckily she could escape. Now I read about the Austrian pilgrim who vanished around Lourdes.

We were very concerned about these incidents and decided to let the two ladies who walked with us not out of sight until we reached Santiago.

Lot of people say „Do not walk alone, look for company!“. But this can‘t be the solution. In my oppinion it is essential to walk alone at least for some days to let the Camino happen to you. I walked alone for about ten days before I met Marco and the two girls (Ali from Australia and Konny from Korea), and I am very grateful for this time. I was able to recognize myself, work on former problems and plans for the future.

We talked a lot about the safety on the Camino and discussed how it would be possible to improve it without causing a lot of costs. We are of the oppinion that nobody should die by crime or be harmed on a sacred way like the Camino de Santiago. Nobody should even be afraid of it. We think it’s a shame for a UNESCO world heritage.

We know that local authorities have more severe problems than looking after pilgrims. Particularly in times like these with growing numbers of refugees. Maybe criminals will take that into account and loose their inhibition. I don’t know and I don’t want to think about it.

On my return back home I did some research and I found a solution that not only would improve safety but also would give several additional advantages to the pilgrims. And best of it: despite the very low start-up costs our project would finance itself and would also produce some earnings.

Our idea is to set up a monitoring network, run mainly by volunteers located all over the world to provide a 24/7 service. Since we personally know pilgrims from USA, Australia, Korea, Africa, Brazil and Europe it won’t be a problem to hire an appropriate number of volunteers for the program. Of course it would be useful to place at least three people locally on the Camino, e.g. in Saint Jean, León and Santiago in order to supply a sufficient service and to ensure a personal contact to local authorities.

Our project doesn’t stand for surveillance but monitoring, run by people who are convinced of what they do. Our plan is to run this ‚business‘ as a non-profit organization. Every Euro that exceeds the local costs will be invested in improving the Camino (e.g. infrastructure, implementing quality standards regarding hygiene, etc.).

In cooperation with a service provider the members of the network will be able to track in
real-time the movements of every single pilgrim that participates. It would also be possible to retrace the movements up to 90 days in the past. The tracked data will contain the GPS location (or address), speed, altitude and battery status of the mobile phone.

Since 90% or more use their smartphones on the Camino most of the pilgrims would be able to participate if wanted.

The software runs as an app or widget on most mobile systems (iOS, Android, Blackberry, Windows Phone), and the tracked data can be monitored on every computer system, tablet or mobile device connected to the internet. The mobile app does nothing else but locating the mobile device and sending small packages of data in a pre-defined interval. Every user is able to locate his own position on a map.

Every tracked pilgrim can be selected and monitored on the same machine by the members of the network. The app, once started on the mobile device, can’t be stopped by someone else because it’s password protected. It has to be stopped on purpose by the user. Even if the phone is shut down, the app will restart itself and continue sending data when the phone is switched on again. Integrated is an SOS button that, once pressed, sends an emergency email to a pre-defined address including the current location and a link that leads directly to the map showing the person in SOS/panic mode in real-time location.

The SOS button could be used not only in potential lethal situations but also if people notice something weird on the Camino, if they got injured or got lost. The emergency email would be read by at least one of our network members and actions would be taken like calling the sender or informing local stuff and/or authorities like police or medical assistance.

You might say that it is already possible to locate mobile phones via GPS or cell triangulation but it takes a vast long and precious time. Locating people with our solution would take only seconds and we’d be able to organize help very short-term or provide authorities with the necessary data when organizing help or rescue.

In addition we could think about some services like handing out a kind of visiting cards which would allow other people to get in contact or ask for the person if they lost the contact. As the owner of a visiting card you’d be allowed to ask the hospitalero/hospitalera to make a contact or just look for the current location of this person. There's no need anymore to place pieces of paper under a pile of stones .

This is just a brief description of what we’d like to do. We think there are lot of more possibilties to make the Camino more safe and comfortable. And may be, if criminals know that pilgrims are monitored the inhibition threshold to do any harm to the people would be higher. The technical environment already exists so why not use it?

The costs for the app itself is about 4,00€. We would sell the package including the app, the monitoring service and visiting cards for 10,00€. In our oppinion this is an appropriate price regarding the service that you get and the duration, in general several weeks. At the end of the Camino the app can be used as a regular GPS tracking app for hiking, biking, etc. just without the monitoring service. Money wouldn’t be lost after the Camino.

Our plan is to walk the Camino Francés once more in 2016 (spring or autumn) to promote the idea and check out the technical feasibility. If things go well we want to start with SaferCamino latest in 2017.

First of all we’d like you to consider this idea and let us know how you would evaluate it. Our secondary aim is letting you know there are some people who love the Camino and its meaning as an UNESCO world heritage. We know there is much space for improvement along that way and we want to contribute to make it better. It‘s definitely not our purpose to get rich but to give something back for what the Camino gave to us. Hence we don’t want any kind of business company to pick up this idea and earn money at the expense of the pilgrims.

Any kind of feedback would be much appreciated.

Thank you and Buen Camino!
Michael
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
It g
Dear pilgrims,

we are two guys that walked the Camino Francés in May 2015. My name is Michael, 50 yrs old and I’m from Cologne, Germany. My Camino buddy and now friend is Marco, 30 yrs old and from Milan, Italy.

We arrived at Astorga six weeks after Denise Thiem disappeared in that area and just one day after the attempt to pull a woman into a car. Luckily she could escape. Now I read about the Austrian pilgrim who vanished around Lourdes.

We were very concerned about these incidents and decided to let the two ladies who walked with us not out of sight until we reached Santiago.

Lot of people say „Do not walk alone, look for company!“. But this can‘t be the solution. In my oppinion it is essential to walk alone at least for some days to let the Camino happen to you. I walked alone for about ten days before I met Marco and the two girls (Ali from Australia and Konny from Korea), and I am very grateful for this time. I was able to recognize myself, work on former problems and plans for the future.

We talked a lot about the safety on the Camino and discussed how it would be possible to improve it without causing a lot of costs. We are of the oppinion that nobody should die by crime or be harmed on a sacred way like the Camino de Santiago. Nobody should even be afraid of it. We think it’s a shame for a UNESCO world heritage.

We know that local authorities have more severe problems than looking after pilgrims. Particularly in times like these with growing numbers of refugees. Maybe criminals will take that into account and loose their inhibition. I don’t know and I don’t want to think about it.

On my return back home I did some research and I found a solution that not only would improve safety but also would give several additional advantages to the pilgrims. And best of it: despite the very low start-up costs our project would finance itself and would also produce some earnings.

Our idea is to set up a monitoring network, run mainly by volunteers located all over the world to provide a 24/7 service. Since we personally know pilgrims from USA, Australia, Korea, Africa, Brazil and Europe it won’t be a problem to hire an appropriate number of volunteers for the program. Of course it would be useful to place at least three people locally on the Camino, e.g. in Saint Jean, León and Santiago in order to supply a sufficient service and to ensure a personal contact to local authorities.

Our project doesn’t stand for surveillance but monitoring, run by people who are convinced of what they do. Our plan is to run this ‚business‘ as a non-profit organization. Every Euro that exceeds the local costs will be invested in improving the Camino (e.g. infrastructure, implementing quality standards regarding hygiene, etc.).

In cooperation with a service provider the members of the network will be able to track in
real-time the movements of every single pilgrim that participates. It would also be possible to retrace the movements up to 90 days in the past. The tracked data will contain the GPS location (or address), speed, altitude and battery status of the mobile phone.

Since 90% or more use their smartphones on the Camino most of the pilgrims would be able to participate if wanted.

The software runs as an app or widget on most mobile systems (iOS, Android, Blackberry, Windows Phone), and the tracked data can be monitored on every computer system, tablet or mobile device connected to the internet. The mobile app does nothing else but locating the mobile device and sending small packages of data in a pre-defined interval. Every user is able to locate his own position on a map.

Every tracked pilgrim can be selected and monitored on the same machine by the members of the network. The app, once started on the mobile device, can’t be stopped by someone else because it’s password protected. It has to be stopped on purpose by the user. Even if the phone is shut down, the app will restart itself and continue sending data when the phone is switched on again. Integrated is an SOS button that, once pressed, sends an emergency email to a pre-defined address including the current location and a link that leads directly to the map showing the person in SOS/panic mode in real-time location.

The SOS button could be used not only in potential lethal situations but also if people notice something weird on the Camino, if they got injured or got lost. The emergency email would be read by at least one of our network members and actions would be taken like calling the sender or informing local stuff and/or authorities like police or medical assistance.

You might say that it is already possible to locate mobile phones via GPS or cell triangulation but it takes a vast long and precious time. Locating people with our solution would take only seconds and we’d be able to organize help very short-term or provide authorities with the necessary data when organizing help or rescue.

In addition we could think about some services like handing out a kind of visiting cards which would allow other people to get in contact or ask for the person if they lost the contact. As the owner of a visiting card you’d be allowed to ask the hospitalero/hospitalera to make a contact or just look for the current location of this person. There's no need anymore to place pieces of paper under a pile of stones .

This is just a brief description of what we’d like to do. We think there are lot of more possibilties to make the Camino more safe and comfortable. And may be, if criminals know that pilgrims are monitored the inhibition threshold to do any harm to the people would be higher. The technical environment already exists so why not use it?

The costs for the app itself is about 4,00€. We would sell the package including the app, the monitoring service and visiting cards for 10,00€. In our oppinion this is an appropriate price regarding the service that you get and the duration, in general several weeks. At the end of the Camino the app can be used as a regular GPS tracking app for hiking, biking, etc. just without the monitoring service. Money wouldn’t be lost after the Camino.

Our plan is to walk the Camino Francés once more in 2016 (spring or autumn) to promote the idea and check out the technical feasibility. If things go well we want to start with SaferCamino latest in 2017.

First of all we’d like you to consider this idea and let us know how you would evaluate it. Our secondary aim is letting you know there are some people who love the Camino and its meaning as an UNESCO world heritage. We know there is much space for improvement along that way and we want to contribute to make it better. It‘s definitely not our purpose to get rich but to give something back for what the Camino gave to us. Hence we don’t want any kind of business company to pick up this idea and earn money at the expense of the pilgrims.

Any kind of feedback would be much appreciated.

Thank you and Buen Camino!
Michael
It will be a very good idea to make Camino de Ssntiago more secure .
The technical involved on it goes beyond my knowledge , but go for it if possible to do it!
 
Good luck with your plans. I'm all for almost anything that makes the Camino safe for any pilgrims who what the added security.
 
St James' Way - Self-guided 4-7 day Walking Packages, Reading to Southampton, 110 kms
I would not wish to use this service. I feel monitored enough already. If it would genuinely improve the safety of pilgrims on the Caminos then it would be welcome but I am minded that the ubiquitous coverage of our UK cities on CCTV has done little if anything to improve the safety of our streets at night. Any system that is founded on post-event reporting provides no protection against the event. The computer in my car displays "airbag deployed" - just in case I haven't noticed.
 
I would use this.
 
Your description reminded me of Apple's free "Find my friends" app which I use very occasionally, either to let family know/monitor where I am or to know/monitor where they are. In view of what you propose, the main differences would be a net of volunteers who constantly monitor incoming data, the SOS button, and the offer to contact local authorities if need be, right?

Like in the case of "Find my friends" and in fact "Find my iPhone", the device has to be switched on for the app to work; I usually have my device switched off or in airplane mode to save energy. I would probably not use this proposed app but I can see some potential - it may be attractive for others who may value a tailor-made product for their camino, including the visiting card (I'm not certain that I've understood how this is supposed to work).
 
Join our full-service guided tour of the Basque Country and let us pamper you!
I would not wish to use this service. I feel monitored enough already. If it would genuinely improve the safety of pilgrims on the Caminos then it would be welcome but I am minded that the ubiquitous coverage of our UK cities on CCTV has done little if anything to improve the safety of our streets at night. Any system that is founded on post-event reporting provides no protection against the event. The computer in my car displays "airbag deployed" - just in case I haven't noticed.

Thank you Tincatinker...the voice of reason....!
 
Good luck with this project packed with good ideas and good intentions. It should be noted that a large percentage of Americans are reluctant to use any type of tracking device because they feel constantly under surveillance. Again, good luck with this project, y que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.
 
3rd Edition. More content, training & pack guides avoid common mistakes, bed bugs etc
Does it reactivate if you decide to walk the Camino again in a year or three? Or perhaps a different Camino? or one that's not in Spain?

Also I've just returned and this time I decided for personal reasons to access wifi. However although you can usually find it, it doesn't let you load emails or open the Internet/FB. So how dependent on a strong wifi system is this idea?

This time I walked alone but of course you're not alone unless you choose to be. But still there were times when I was physically alone and still felt safe. I had been aware of Denise's disappearance when it occurred and I was on the Meseta when they found Denise. Also through this forum I was aware of other incidents of inappropriate and worrying behaviours, however even here at home I have to keep my wits about me and be mindful where and when I go places. Sadly no place is 100% safe.
 
Last edited:
Ideal pocket guides for during & after your Camino. Each weighs only 1.4 oz (40g)!
Interesting proposal. I walked the Camino as a woman alone last year and often spent the night camping (don't tell La Guardia Civil as it is technically illegal to wild camp anywhere in Spain). I also served for two weeks as a hospitalera in the lovely Granon. I will serve again next year somewhere.
Having said all that, it occured to me when Denise Thiel first disappeared that volunteers could be of service not only as hosts in the alburgues but what if say a few folks travelled back and forth over more remote terrain just observing and being a presence on the trail? I would do it. I would pick maybe a 5 or 10 mile stretch and travel on my bike. As an added bonus I'D PICK UP GARBAGE!!!! No costly and complicated technology, no expense to anyone but me. I had to cover my expenses to serve anyway. Of course I think it woud be safer to do in pairs.
So, perhaps rather than volunteers to monitor all the techno data, someone could coordinate volunteers as "Trail Monitors" much the same as the various national pilgrim organizations coordinate their respective alburgue volunteers. There are waiting lists for people to serve in places like Rabanal and other alburgues. It would have to be made clear however, that we are NOT the police nor do we provide rescue. Just a presence and a pair (or two pairs) of eyes on the trial.
Here are examples of similar: There are women who used to monitor some of the BART stops in the East Bay late at night; there were the Gray Panthers who walked streets in the cities looking after the elderly; and don't forget the Guardain Angles (now defunct) of New York City. Whatever your thoughts or politics about the afore mentioned it's OK, but I think there is a model for this.
OK, my 2 cents worth.
 
Rather than some kind of GPS breadcrumb monitoring system, or any organised kind of group, I would rather see a fostering of the attitude that most people already have to their fellow pilgrims; we watch out for each other, we are aware of the needs of others, we do stop and give practical help, we actively ask "Are you OK?"

That there has been so much reaction to the death of poor Denise is only illustrative of the fact that it is a one off.

The Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino de Santiago tries to keep a list of all deaths associated with the pilgrimage. I have looked at the period between 1987 up to and including 2014. The cause of death is not listed in every case, but in most.

By far the greatest cause of unnatural violent death is accidents involving vehicles. The worst day was on 24 July 2013, when 79 people were killed in the Alvia train crash near Santiago.

There have been 9 cyclists who have died on the Camino with the cause being listed as contact with other vehicles. Two more cyclists died as a result of coming off their bicycles - one at El Acebo and one at Hospital (Condesa).

In the same period 11 walking pilgrims were killed in or as the result of road accidents.

4 people got lost in the Pyrenees and were subsequently found dead or died of exposure.

Two pilgrims drowned at Finisterre.

30 pilgrims died with the cause of death being listed as heart attack or cardio arrest. Several more are listed as having died of a stroke or after a fainting spell or heat stroke or something similar. Quite a few died as the result of illness, in their sleep, or had no cause listed.

So, in my view, the best thing we can all do is, perhaps, a first aid course. And put into practise the parable of the Good Samaritan.
 
I know this is to help, yet it is only feeding fear. Something we are walking to lose. At least that in my opinion is true.
An extreme example of fear is concealed carry in my country. I believe we must do our best to keep a soft heart. Not worry about every encounter with others. This is only my opinion.
If someone is trying to recover from a violent encounter this may bring some relief from worry.
Keith
 
Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
The camino is quite a lot less dangerous than many of the towns and cities that pilgrims are coming from. A handful of people are murdered in my sleepy, proper little town most years, some randomly by strangers. But I still live here and go outside without undue fear. Even at night, and, gasp, alone. I don't have my every movement tracked in case of accident or attack, nor would a tracking device ever prevent either.

I especially don't like the reference to refugees -- the man arrested for Denise Thiem's murder is a Spaniard, and I sincerely doubt he was inspired by the sight of Syrian refugees to attack a walker.

On my camino in 2009 a pilgrim died in the hostel overnight, surrounded by 23 other pilgrims. No one knew until the morning, when the hospitaleros tried to wake her after leaving time. Death can come even when safest.

Kanga's list of how many pilgrims die and how is revealing. Our best bet for safety may be what many of us already do: carry a phone, know the numbers for medical aid and police, keep an eye out for pilgrims in distress, and know basic first aid and CPR. Obey the "gift of fear" -- if you feel uneasy about a situation, find company. (Or leave it!) And be really, really careful around those dealers of death and injury, motor vehicles.

The camino isn't a walk in a theme park, overseen by security. Bless it for staying that way.
 
I especially don't like the reference to refugees -- the man arrested for Denise Thiem's murder is a Spaniard, and I sincerely doubt he was inspired by the sight of Syrian refugees to attack a walker.
This is not what the OP said! He said: "We know that local authorities have more severe problems". That is a fact and not an opinion. Local authorities in several countries are preoccupied with dealing with severe organisational and financial problems due to the current massive influx of refugees arriving by sea and overland routes. They may well be solved over time but they are acute problems at the moment. It is debatable whether this has anything to do with the situation of local, regional and national authorities providing resources for the Spanish caminos and it would probably be considered as a political debate so it is taboo on this forum. But please don't distort the OP's comments.
 
Last edited:
The software runs as an app or widget on most mobile systems (iOS, Android, Blackberry, Windows Phone), and the tracked data can be monitored on every computer system, tablet or mobile device connected to the internet. The mobile app does nothing else but locating the mobile device and sending small packages of data in a pre-defined interval. Every user is able to locate his own position on a map.
Coming back to your proposed app and the practical side of it: the device has to be switched on and this will consume energy. Could the app run all day for say 8-10 hours or more, in addition to occasional other use, like reading content on the device, using interactive maps, etc.? And I guess it could be set up in such a way that the volunteers on the network are excluded from monitoring the data and only one or more other persons, such as family members or say a walking buddy who walks faster or doesn't like stops, have access?

PS: You may have to think about the name of your app ;).
 
Last edited:
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
I'm sure that your app has merits, in most larger ski hills they are equipping the lift tickets so they can be tracked. They do this in case someone does not come back at the end of the day. This is technology you may want to look into. Having said that, I'm an old guy so I would not be subscribing to the app. When on the trail I trust my instincts as I do in the city to stay away from troubles, I also believe in the body system and looking out for others as they do for me.
Just my opinion.
Chris
 
Rather than some kind of GPS breadcrumb monitoring system, or any organised kind of group, I would rather see a fostering of the attitude that most people already have to their fellow pilgrims; we watch out for each other, we are aware of the needs of others, we do stop and give practical help, we actively ask "Are you OK?"

That there has been so much reaction to the death of poor Denise is only illustrative of the fact that it is a one off.

The Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino de Santiago tries to keep a list of all deaths associated with the pilgrimage. I have looked at the period between 1987 up to and including 2014. The cause of death is not listed in every case, but in most.

By far the greatest cause of unnatural violent death is accidents involving vehicles. The worst day was on 24 July 2013, when 79 people were killed in the Alvia train crash near Santiago.

There have been 9 cyclists who have died on the Camino with the cause being listed as contact with other vehicles. Two more cyclists died as a result of coming off their bicycles - one at El Acebo and one at Hospital (Condesa).

In the same period 11 walking pilgrims were killed in or as the result of road accidents.

4 people got lost in the Pyrenees and were subsequently found dead or died of exposure.

Two pilgrims drowned at Finisterre.

30 pilgrims died with the cause of death being listed as heart attack or cardio arrest. Several more are listed as having died of a stroke or after a fainting spell or heat stroke or something similar. Quite a few died as the result of illness, in their sleep, or had no cause listed.

So, in my view, the best thing we can all do is, perhaps, a first aid course. And put into practise the parable of the Good Samaritan.
I agree with you.....it's so unusual (still VERY sad of course) that crimes like this happens. A lot of common sense from the Pilgrims themselves would help. I walked with my son this year and plan to walk alone next year. That being said.....I know it is very doable to somehow have other pilgrims within view at most times. It was very rare during my Camino in May/June that we were alone. It may require a bit of effort to keep other pilgrims in sight but I'm sure it will work out fine. Like you wrote pilgrims are very willing to help each other if needed.
 
The camino is quite a lot less dangerous than many of the towns and cities that pilgrims are coming from. A handful of people are murdered in my sleepy, proper little town most years, some randomly by strangers. But I still live here and go outside without undue fear. Even at night, and, gasp, alone. I don't have my every movement tracked in case of accident or attack, nor would a tracking device ever prevent either.

I especially don't like the reference to refugees -- the man arrested for Denise Thiem's murder is a Spaniard, and I sincerely doubt he was inspired by the sight of Syrian refugees to attack a walker.

On my camino in 2009 a pilgrim died in the hostel overnight, surrounded by 23 other pilgrims. No one knew until the morning, when the hospitaleros tried to wake her after leaving time. Death can come even when safest.

Kanga's list of how many pilgrims die and how is revealing. Our best bet for safety may be what many of us already do: carry a phone, know the numbers for medical aid and police, keep an eye out for pilgrims in distress, and know basic first aid and CPR. Obey the "gift of fear" -- if you feel uneasy about a situation, find company. (Or leave it!) And be really, really careful around those dealers of death and injury, motor vehicles.

The camino isn't a walk in a theme park, overseen by security. Bless it for staying that way.
I agree 100 % :)
 
Join our full-service guided tour and let us convert you into a Pampered Pilgrim!
About safety on the Camino? I have never been afraid being on my own but with these two incidents now about a bit concern. I have walked the road from Lourdes Oleron St. Marie and it is definitely a lonely road. When I left Lourdes I saw no one till I got to the Pilgrim Hostel..and I mean no one.
 
I would use this app. I have walked from Arles starting 2 September and am now on the Frances and walked in the company of others for about a week between Arles and Puente la Reina. There were a couple of times when I felt really unsafe on isolated roads and in forests when I encountered men in cars. My present security arrangement is to text or email a friend daily to state where I am and where I'm going, if only to narrow the search area were I to go missing. Such an app would be a step up in security.
 
Rather than some kind of GPS breadcrumb monitoring system, or any organised kind of group, I would rather see a fostering of the attitude that most people already have to their fellow pilgrims; we watch out for each other, we are aware of the needs of others, we do stop and give practical help, we actively ask "Are you OK?"

That there has been so much reaction to the death of poor Denise is only illustrative of the fact that it is a one off.

The Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino de Santiago tries to keep a list of all deaths associated with the pilgrimage. I have looked at the period between 1987 up to and including 2014. The cause of death is not listed in every case, but in most.

By far the greatest cause of unnatural violent death is accidents involving vehicles. The worst day was on 24 July 2013, when 79 people were killed in the Alvia train crash near Santiago.

There have been 9 cyclists who have died on the Camino with the cause being listed as contact with other vehicles. Two more cyclists died as a result of coming off their bicycles - one at El Acebo and one at Hospital (Condesa).

In the same period 11 walking pilgrims were killed in or as the result of road accidents.

4 people got lost in the Pyrenees and were subsequently found dead or died of exposure.

Two pilgrims drowned at Finisterre.

30 pilgrims died with the cause of death being listed as heart attack or cardio arrest. Several more are listed as having died of a stroke or after a fainting spell or heat stroke or something similar. Quite a few died as the result of illness, in their sleep, or had no cause listed.

So, in my view, the best thing we can all do is, perhaps, a first aid course. And put into practise the parable of the Good Samaritan.
A reply that is informative, pragmatic and optimistic. A pleasure to read, many thanks.
 
Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
@Bernice M if it would help you, I understand there already are a number of apps that you can download onto your smartphone that will send a "breadcrumb" GPS trail to someone you nominate, so your whereabouts can instantly be seen in real time. It does require the GPS on your smartphone to be left on which consumes battery, but taking a battery bank solves that problem. Various other GPS tracking devices, apart from smartphones, will also do the same thing. It is now standard for fleet vehicles to have these fitted, so that companies can monitor their position - want to know where is your home delivery pizza? Log on to your computer and it's all there!
 
*Sending hot and ready pizza to Reb in Moratinos. Extra cheese and tomatoes*
:D:D:D
 
Join our full-service guided tour and let us convert you into a Pampered Pilgrim!
I want to know more about this . ( The app not the pizza :) ) . I would consider buying once I had all the particulars. Any device the helps with safety even after the fact is worth a visit .
No one thing , person or whatever can stop a crime from happening . No policeman can stop you from getting mugged or kidnapped . They investigate after the event search then for clues, and apprehend if possible.
One thumbs up for the idea of the app. Two thumbs up if it performs .
 
Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
Good luck Mike and Marco with your venture. I would not use any kind of tracking app (even for pizza purposes!), but I wish you well.

I wonder if you would get a different range of reactions from a post on the main camino-related Facebook pages?
 
Dear pilgrims,

we are two guys that walked the Camino Francés in May 2015. My name is Michael, 50 yrs old and I’m from Cologne, Germany. My Camino buddy and now friend is Marco, 30 yrs old and from Milan, Italy.

We arrived at Astorga six weeks after Denise Thiem disappeared in that area and just one day after the attempt to pull a woman into a car. Luckily she could escape. Now I read about the Austrian pilgrim who vanished around Lourdes.

We were very concerned about these incidents and decided to let the two ladies who walked with us not out of sight until we reached Santiago.

Lot of people say „Do not walk alone, look for company!“. But this can‘t be the solution. In my oppinion it is essential to walk alone at least for some days to let the Camino happen to you. I walked alone for about ten days before I met Marco and the two girls (Ali from Australia and Konny from Korea), and I am very grateful for this time. I was able to recognize myself, work on former problems and plans for the future.

We talked a lot about the safety on the Camino and discussed how it would be possible to improve it without causing a lot of costs. We are of the oppinion that nobody should die by crime or be harmed on a sacred way like the Camino de Santiago. Nobody should even be afraid of it. We think it’s a shame for a UNESCO world heritage.

We know that local authorities have more severe problems than looking after pilgrims. Particularly in times like these with growing numbers of refugees. Maybe criminals will take that into account and loose their inhibition. I don’t know and I don’t want to think about it.

On my return back home I did some research and I found a solution that not only would improve safety but also would give several additional advantages to the pilgrims. And best of it: despite the very low start-up costs our project would finance itself and would also produce some earnings.

Our idea is to set up a monitoring network, run mainly by volunteers located all over the world to provide a 24/7 service. Since we personally know pilgrims from USA, Australia, Korea, Africa, Brazil and Europe it won’t be a problem to hire an appropriate number of volunteers for the program. Of course it would be useful to place at least three people locally on the Camino, e.g. in Saint Jean, León and Santiago in order to supply a sufficient service and to ensure a personal contact to local authorities.

Our project doesn’t stand for surveillance but monitoring, run by people who are convinced of what they do. Our plan is to run this ‚business‘ as a non-profit organization. Every Euro that exceeds the local costs will be invested in improving the Camino (e.g. infrastructure, implementing quality standards regarding hygiene, etc.).

In cooperation with a service provider the members of the network will be able to track in
real-time the movements of every single pilgrim that participates. It would also be possible to retrace the movements up to 90 days in the past. The tracked data will contain the GPS location (or address), speed, altitude and battery status of the mobile phone.

Since 90% or more use their smartphones on the Camino most of the pilgrims would be able to participate if wanted.

The software runs as an app or widget on most mobile systems (iOS, Android, Blackberry, Windows Phone), and the tracked data can be monitored on every computer system, tablet or mobile device connected to the internet. The mobile app does nothing else but locating the mobile device and sending small packages of data in a pre-defined interval. Every user is able to locate his own position on a map.

Every tracked pilgrim can be selected and monitored on the same machine by the members of the network. The app, once started on the mobile device, can’t be stopped by someone else because it’s password protected. It has to be stopped on purpose by the user. Even if the phone is shut down, the app will restart itself and continue sending data when the phone is switched on again. Integrated is an SOS button that, once pressed, sends an emergency email to a pre-defined address including the current location and a link that leads directly to the map showing the person in SOS/panic mode in real-time location.

The SOS button could be used not only in potential lethal situations but also if people notice something weird on the Camino, if they got injured or got lost. The emergency email would be read by at least one of our network members and actions would be taken like calling the sender or informing local stuff and/or authorities like police or medical assistance.

You might say that it is already possible to locate mobile phones via GPS or cell triangulation but it takes a vast long and precious time. Locating people with our solution would take only seconds and we’d be able to organize help very short-term or provide authorities with the necessary data when organizing help or rescue.

In addition we could think about some services like handing out a kind of visiting cards which would allow other people to get in contact or ask for the person if they lost the contact. As the owner of a visiting card you’d be allowed to ask the hospitalero/hospitalera to make a contact or just look for the current location of this person. There's no need anymore to place pieces of paper under a pile of stones .

This is just a brief description of what we’d like to do. We think there are lot of more possibilties to make the Camino more safe and comfortable. And may be, if criminals know that pilgrims are monitored the inhibition threshold to do any harm to the people would be higher. The technical environment already exists so why not use it?

The costs for the app itself is about 4,00€. We would sell the package including the app, the monitoring service and visiting cards for 10,00€. In our oppinion this is an appropriate price regarding the service that you get and the duration, in general several weeks. At the end of the Camino the app can be used as a regular GPS tracking app for hiking, biking, etc. just without the monitoring service. Money wouldn’t be lost after the Camino.

Our plan is to walk the Camino Francés once more in 2016 (spring or autumn) to promote the idea and check out the technical feasibility. If things go well we want to start with SaferCamino latest in 2017.

First of all we’d like you to consider this idea and let us know how you would evaluate it. Our secondary aim is letting you know there are some people who love the Camino and its meaning as an UNESCO world heritage. We know there is much space for improvement along that way and we want to contribute to make it better. It‘s definitely not our purpose to get rich but to give something back for what the Camino gave to us. Hence we don’t want any kind of business company to pick up this idea and earn money at the expense of the pilgrims.

Any kind of feedback would be much appreciated.

Thank you and Buen Camino!
Michael
Hi Michael, I am not gonna use the app , sorry.
I think that we have to leave the Camino as it is. We already life in a world full off camera's etc. My opinion is that all our home towns are more dancerous than our beloved Camino.
Wish everybody a safe and well journey ,Peter.
 
Where is my home delivery pizza? Where is pizza? Why is there no pizza restaurant within 50 km. of my house? Safety, shmafety... I want pizza now! Will an app make that happen?
Ha ha ha ha!!!!! "PIZZA, HECK YEAH!"
 
New Original Camino Gear Designed Especially with The Modern Peregrino In Mind!
First of all thanks for your feedback. Interesting how a post develops. Pizza...
I try to answer the most questions in one instead of quoting.
At the moment we're still brainstorming, nothing fixed yet, and I'm just fishing for opinions. We don't want to convince anyone of anything.
Sure, the Camino is a very safe place but nevertheless it happens that sometimes somebody disappears. Sorry to point at it again but I guess Denise felt safe as well. Several thousands of times nothing happens but sometimes it does. So 'Better you than me'?
Different topic.
If you say you're monitored enough, you're right. But this happens anyway and you can't avoid it. Now you'd be able to use this technology for your own purpose. What's wrong with it?
There are lots of GPS systems but there's no one that takes care for your breadcrumbs or picks up your SOS call to inform police or ambulance.
People would be monitored only if needed but not in general.
This program is more meant as an assistance like wearing a helmet when biking. It doesn't prevent you of having an accident but it might help to prevent from things getting worse.
GPS consumes lot of energy, true. But you can reduce it if you set the interval to 10 or 30 minutes. And who walks the Camino without battery pack? I didn't and I was lucky because you're never sure to get a free plug to charge your phone.
This app sends small data packages by interval. This works even with Edge or GPRS. You don't need WIFI for it.
Did I miss something? Maybe this. Police patrols on the Camino would be nice but who can afford it? I guess not a country like Spain, they have more severe problems like 30% unemployment rate.
But your feedback, either positive or negative is much appreciated.
Let's see how things go.
Buen Camino
Mike

PS: you walk the Camino with a hiking guide although you don't need it, you carry a book for Spanish language although you don't need it, you carry a Thermarest although you don't need it. Don't forget the walking sticks.... if you don't have problems with your ankles you definitely don't need them.
You do all this because somebody told you that it is necessary or at least useful and you'll find out it isn't.
You don't need our program (if it'll be ever realized) but it wouldn't be bad to have.
 
Last edited:
The 9th edition the Lightfoot Guide will let you complete the journey your way.
First of all thanks for your feedback. Interesting how a post develops. Pizza...
I try to answer the most questions in one instead of quoting.
At the moment we're still brainstorming, nothing fixed yet, and I'm just fishing for opinions. We don't want to convince anyone of anything.
Sure, the Camino is a very safe place but nevertheless it happens that sometimes somebody disappears. Sorry to point at it again but I guess Denise felt safe as well. Several thousands of times nothing happens but sometimes it does. So 'Better you than me'?
Different topic.
If you say you're monitored enough, you're right. But this happens anyway and you can't avoid it. Now you'd be able to use this technology for your own purpose. What's wrong with it?
There are lots of GPS systems but there's no one that takes care for your breadcrumbs or picks up your SOS call to inform police or ambulance.
People would be monitored only if needed but not in general.
This program is more meant as an assistance like wearing a helmet when biking. It doesn't prevent you of having an accident but it might help to prevent from things getting worse.
GPS consumes lot of energy, true. But you can reduce it if you set the interval to 10 or 30 minutes. And who walks the Camino without battery pack? I didn't and I was lucky because you're never sure to get a free plug to charge your phone.
This app sends small data packages by interval. This works even with Edge or GPRS. You don't need WIFI for it.
Did I miss something? Maybe this. Police patrols on the Camino would be nice but who can afford it? I guess not a country like Spain, they have more severe problems like 30% unemployment rate.
But your feedback, either positive or negative is much appreciated.
Let's see how things go.
Buen Camino
Mike

PS: you walk the Camino with a hiking guide although you don't need it, you carry a book for Spanish language although you don't need it, you carry a Thermarest although you don't need it. Don't forget the walking sticks.... if you don't have problems with your ankles you definitely don't need them.
You do all this because somebody told you that it is necessary or at least useful and you'll find out it isn't.
You don't need our program (if it'll be ever realized) but it wouldn't be bad to have.
I think the 2nd to last paragraph says it strait. Do a test for a month. To see if there is enough interest.
 
Hello Mike. I read your proposal with great interest. I would not use it, however, basically because I think the Camino is relatively safe - in comparison with the outside world

No disrespect intended, but I totally disagree with almost everything you write and all the assumptions you seem to make (police patrols on the camino would be good; the refugee crisis may increase crime against pilgrims, while at the same time you say do you not know & and you do not want to think about this, etc. etc).

I guess you risk assesment is just totally different from mine (and from most pilgrims that I have met) & I think a more appropriate risk assesment of the Camino has been made by Kanga for example.

Just two further remarks.

Sure, the Camino is a very safe place but nevertheless it happens that sometimes somebody disappears. .
Let us keep with the facts. As far as I know there has been one disappearance on the Camino.

And who walks the Camino without battery pack? I didn't and I was lucky because you're never sure to get a free plug to charge your phone. .

To answer this question: I do, I walk without a battery pack. I guess we make a different risk assesment here: the availability of the occasional free plug does not influence the quality of my camino.

Let us agree to disagree. Marc.
 
I don't blame entrepreneurial people from coming up with ideas to sell things on or relating to the Camino. But my own preference is that they not be inventions that depend for their success on unwarranted and exaggerated fear, or worse yet, that they create that fear by merely advertising and selling the product. A few months ago El Pais had an article that compiled a list of all violent crimes on the Camino over, I believe, the last 25 years. The total was 15, and this is not just the Camino Frances, it included all the many other caminos all over the country.

In my opinion, it will take a distorted marketing campaign to convince people that this is something worth carrying -- a realistic risk assessment is unlikely to conclude that this device makes sense in one of the few places in the world where there have been so many people and so few crimes. Maybe it'd be a better idea to try to set this up in any US city over 100,000, each of which has far more crime in a year than what has happened to the millions walking the caminos over the past 25 years.
 
Ideal pocket guides for during & after your Camino. Each weighs only 1.4 oz (40g)!
The Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino de Santiago tries to keep a list of all deaths associated with the pilgrimage. I have looked at the period between 1987 up to and including 2014. The cause of death is not listed in every case, but in most.

Kanga,

Thank you for a very informative message. By any chance, do you have a link to the Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino de Santiago statistics?

Victoria
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Instead of evaluating the whole thing and its potential you pick out details and rip them into pieces. Doesn't matter. That's exactly what I expected.
As I mentioned before I don't want to convince anybody. But obviously some of you want to convince the others of their opinion. That was not my intention and I don't want to offer a platform for that. Hence I'm out.
Buen Camino.
 
This assumes that the Camino is dangerous (I would argue it isn't), that everyone takes a cell phone with them (I don't and many others don't as well), and that if you do take a cell phone you'd be ok with yet one more form of big brother tracking us (many of us wouldn't be).

Your heart is 100% in the right place, but I find this proposal to be scary in its own way.
 
PS: you walk the Camino with a hiking guide although you don't need it, you carry a book for Spanish language although you don't need it, you carry a Thermarest although you don't need it. Don't forget the walking sticks
No I didn't.
No I didn't
No I didn't
Yes I did, but not because I thought I "needed to"



And no I didn't carry a battery pack either, to answer your question of "who walks without a battery pack....." I didn't carry anything that required a battery, so why would I take a pack?
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
As I mentioned before I don't want to convince anybody. But obviously some of you want to convince the others of their opinion.
No, that's precisely what you want to do (not that there is anything wrong with it). You are making an argument one way, they another.
 
Down bag (90/10 duvet) of 700 fills with 180 g (6.34 ounces) of filling. Mummy-shaped structure, ideal when you are looking for lightness with great heating performance.

€149,-
Status
Not open for further replies.

Most read last week in this forum

Reports of money missing from a few wallets at Rocanvelles this afternoon. Money was taken, but the wallets/purses were not. Police have been called. Stay safe!

❓How to ask a question

How to post a new question on the Camino Forum.

Forum Rules

Forum Rules

Camino Updates on YouTube

Camino Conversations

Most downloaded Resources

This site is run by Ivar at

in Santiago de Compostela.
This site participates in the Amazon Affiliate program, designed to provide a means for Ivar to earn fees by linking to Amazon
Official Camino Passport (Credential) | 2024 Camino Guides
Back
Top