My Camino de Madrid - Sahagún. June-July 2016.

[Bad Pilgrim]

I think we've gotten a preview of the last chapter, with all the mess going into Grajal

Ha ha, I had my catharsis in the previous posts about that road so I'll try to keep my emotional outbursts to a minimum!!

Thanks for commenting. I myself think it's confusing to write about this because I had 2 guidebooks and during the last stages they began to differ heavily... I will comment on your observations later!

Bye for now!

BP

 

[Madidi]

Wishing the owners of the Bar Caribe continued good health.

My sentiments too Lawrie. Thanks for the photos: lots of good memories from them.

Take care, be safe.

Seán.

 

[Madidi]

I myself think it's confusing to write about this because I had 2 guidebooks and during the last stages they began to differ heavily... I will comment on your observations later!

Hi BP,

We only had the Max Long guide and followed it religiously It has been fun plotting your course on Google Maps from your reports and seeing where the Association and Max diverged.

Albergue in Villalón is quite nice, I had it all to myself with a very lovely hospitalero

We stayed there too and found it to be one of the best on the camino.

Take care, be safe.

Seán.

 

[jpflavin1]

STAGE NINE: CASTROMONTE – VILLALÓN DE CAMPOS. 3 of July. 38 KMS

When I left the albergue in Castromonte I forgot to look at the painting at the entrance. I guess I wasn’t fully awake. I had risen early because I wanted to reach Sahagún already the following day. So I sleepwalked across the village and at the end of it I crossed the river. (The name of the river is Bajoz, not Sequillo as Max Long calls it. The river Sequillo runs near Medina del Rioseco.)

After the river I turned to the right and followed the instructions in Max Long’s guidebook. They are correct. The only thing that bothered me was a mention to turn left shortly after a specific arrow. “Shortly after” is open to discussion… You have to walk for a good while before going left. I lost some time because I never saw where I should make the turn: Max Long made it sound as if it would be within five minutes or something. I backtracked to the last arrow, sighed, and continued the same way again. And once you get to that famous turn to the left, the arrow is barely visible. This is definitely the part of the Camino where arrows start to fade away, if not the stage before. The deterioration would continue all the way to Sahagún. Now, stop reading if you don’t want to get confused…

… because for Camino Nerds, there are a few things to discuss here. At the same point, after the river where Max Long says you should turn right, there are two other options to consider according to the guidebook of the Asociación. You can also continue straight on the C-611 to Valverde de Campos. (This is the shortest option according to their map.) Or you can take a third alternative, an “ancient road” that runs to the left of the carretera. They say this ancient road is poorly marked and I don’t know anything about it. This must be the one that Max Long refers to when he says “a new road means that cyclists can travel 11 kms along a road to Valverde de Campos”. (Ancient road or new road? What?). But if this ancient-new road is 11 kms, I can’t understand how the first option to the right is only 9 kms according to the guidebooks. By looking at the map, the option to the right must be longer than any of the two others.

Are you confused yet? Oh, I forgot to tell you that the Asociación shows a different way on the Camino to the right than the one Max Long describes. Their map says that you should continue straight on when Max Long tells you to turn left at a crossroads. This also made me loose some time before I discovered that the Max Long (written) and the Asociación (map) actually differed…

Valverde de Campos looked nice and pretty but no-one had prepared my breakfast. So I kept going. 1 km after leaving Valverde de Campos I left the carretera to walk a few hundred meters towards a disused railway. The rails can’t be seen anymore but there’s no question where it was as it’s running upon a distinctive elevation. You do a little climb of a few meters to reach it. (I like uphills that are only a few meters!) But right there I had another problem with Max Long. He says I should “reach an old abandoned house”. Reach? You can see the house on your right when you get to the railway, but once you’re up on the elevation you immediately turn left.

Before Medina del Rioseco I got “lost”. (If you can get lost when you are 1 km from a town that you can see in front of you. But nothing is impossible for me.) If you have the map of the Asociación you’ll understand: I turned to the right at the point marked as “K1” when I should have continued straight on. But I swear I saw no arrows… So I entered Medina del Rioseco on the highway 601 instead. A scandalous detour of at least 200 meters! After this horrible mistake I had to take a lengthy break in a luxurious bar. I took a stroll to admire the churches but I soon got weary and decided to carry on.

When leaving Medina del Rioseco there are three options to reach Cuenca de Campos. You can take an older road that runs through Berrueces and Moral de la Reina, or you can follow the disused railway between Medina del Rioseco and Villalón the Campos. The second one is the shortest but the Asociación says it can be difficult in bad weather (rain, snow). I chose a third alternative that runs along a canal where there was some shade thanks to the trees. A very nice walk.

In a bar in Tamariz I almost sprayed a group of elderly ladies with mango juice. The barman had already opened the bottle for me, but I never noticed so I went on to shake it with all my might. The juice sprouted in the air and all over the floor a few inches from the ladies. They didn’t notice since they were laughing and talking loudly to each other so for once I was lucky. I admitted my clumsiness, presented my excuses to the barman with my most humble pilgrim-smile and ran away.

After Tamariz I looked for the disused railway that would cross the carretera, coming from the left. I thought I could jump on the second option coming from Medina del Rioseco. But I didn’t see any road or path joining me from the left. So I ended up in Moral de la Reina where I thought I could join the first option coming from Berrueces instead. And I could, because there was a continuum of arrows leading me from Tamariz towards and through Moral de la Reina. Then there was a sandy path like in the pine forest (but without pine trees) and I panicked when I thought this quicksand would continue for the next 8 kms in the midday heat to Cuenca de Campos. But the road stabilized after some hundred meters. Then 5 more kms from Cuenca de Campos on the C-611 including turning right for a more peaceful camino that entered Villalón de Campos. I was really tired but at least my sun poisoning was gone. Given the different options in this area I wonder about official distances here as well.

As I had stayed in albergues for the last five days I felt I had earned a room of my own. I chose the Hostal Peña right at the Plaza, close to the peculiar sculpture (rollo) which is the trademark of the town. Regular standard and nothing to complain about. 25 or 30 euros. I needed to buy things but it was too late in the evening: according to the owners, everything except for the bars was closed. I didn’t give up and went out to hunt down some food. A few meters from the hostal I saw a candy shop: that would do to fill up my mochila for the next day.

I had dinner in the bar. The restaurant was full of wealthy families. Fancy clothes as far as the eye could see and a bunch of abuelas with bling-bling jewelry. Here was the jet set of Villalón de Campos (or shipped in from surrounding areas) and I was in my shorts and T-shirt. At least I managed not to throw drinks or food at them as in Tamariz. I kindly asked the owners, with my famous humble-pilgrim-smile, when they opened in the morning. Abrupt answer: Not until eight o’clock. As I wanted to leave earlier I was disappointed, but didn’t insist. The tourist demands, the pilgrim… I promise, I can behave. Although, after dinner, the same owners approached me and surprisingly said that they would rise at seven to unlock the door for me. How kind! It’s all thanks to my famous humble-pilgrim-smile! Works like magic.

Last chapter coming soon!

/BP

BP:

You missed, imo, one of the best Albergues on the Madrid in Villalon. A full service Albergue (full kitchen, hot showers, washing machine, exceptionally clean, living room with couches and a TV. A great hotel/bar/restaurant just up the street from the Albergue.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[Castilian]

the peculiar sculpture (rollo)

It's the first time ever that I read someone refering to a rollo as a sculpture. I guess they didn't tell you what was and what meant a rollo.

I thought the canal route from Medina was the official one

The route through Berrueces is official (marked) too (alongside with the canal route).

I do remember that there are places to stop in Cuenca and that the walk into Villalón from there is on a popular walking trail. (Is that the RR tracks you were referring to, BP?)

Yes, that's the old railway that Bad Pilgrim quoted. From Medina de Rioseco to Cuenca de Campos isn't yet conditioned. If it was conditioned, it could be an option to consider but that would mean missing the walk next to the canal...

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

It's the first time ever that I read someone refering to a rollo as a sculpture. I guess they didn't tell you what was and what meant a rollo.

Hi,

I don't think that's an important remark. I'm sure there are a lot of words that I don't use correctly as I'm not a native English speaker. By the way, "It's the first time ever that I read someone refering to a rollo as a sculpture" has a quite condescending tone.

Have a nice day

BP

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

BP:

You missed, imo, one of the best Albergues on the Madrid in Villalon. A full service Albergue (full kitchen, hot showers, washing machine, exceptionally clean, living room with couches and a TV. A great hotel/bar/restaurant just up the street from the Albergue.

Ultreya,
Joe

That's a pity! A washing machine is exactly what I needed...! Next time.............

Thanks/BP

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

I thought the canal route from Medina was the official one. Even if it isn't, I agree it's the one to take.

Hi Laurie,

Back to your post. The first one ever to be waymarked is the middle one, on the dismantled railway. The problem is that with the tracks they dismantled the bridges as well (20 of them) so it's difficult to cross the arroyos sometimes.

The second one is the one to the left, which goes through Berrueces. And the most recent one to be waymarked is the way that follows the canal. According to the maps of the Asociación, the canal option and the dismantled railway option are both alternatives, while the official one is the one that goes through Berrueces! Don't ask me why...

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

It was First Communion season, so I was able to enjoy watching lots of great family celebrations.

Those families were with me in the restaurant so something was definitely going on when I was there as well...! Marriage, Communion, Dance around the rollo... Who knows...

I'm back to work so the last chapter may take a while...

Ciao!

/BP

 

[Castilian]

By the way, "It's the first time ever that I read someone refering to a rollo as a sculpture" has a quite condescending tone.

I didn't pretend to have a condescending tone and, in fact, I don't think my words had a condescending tone although, of course, I'm aware people could think different than me. Denotatively, my words aren't condescending (or so I think). I'm not a native English speaker so I don't know if my words would be considered connotatively condescending by most/many native English speakers but, IMHO, connotations of words that are just written (i.e.: without any intonation supporting them in one sense or other) are just guesses based in the readers prejudices and/or cultural points of view and/or other personal characteristics. That's one of the reasons why misunderstandings (e.g.: people taking seriously a post that was just tongue in cheek; people don't getting the irony of a post; people giving a different interpretation to the one intended by the person that wrote a post due to cultural differences...) aren't too rare on any online forum like this one.

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

Hi,

I disagree. I think your words has a condescending tone. Communication, whether in spoken or written form, is not devoid of tone. That's my opinion and you can have yours.

I think you should think about how your message can be interpreted before you send it. Instead of writing anything you want and then blame the reciever if he thinks it's patronizing.

connotations of words that are just written (i.e.: without any intonation supporting them in one sense or other) are just guesses based in the readers prejudices and/or cultural points of view and/or other personal characteristics.

I don't think so. That's not my view of communication.

misunderstandings (e.g.: people taking seriously a post that was just tongue in cheek; people don't getting the irony of a post; people giving a different interpretation to the one intended by the person that wrote a post due to cultural differences...) aren't too rare on any online forum like this one.

If the person you write to doesn't understand your irony or your tongue in cheek, it can also be because you failed to convey this in the written form. You know, if you don't leave any trace of it in what you write, people will not get the irony or the tongue in cheek.

/BP

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

Denotatively, my words aren't condescending (or so I think).

There's something called pragmatics. (pun intended)

I believe that communication between two persons (or more) is much more complex than what you describe in your previous post, whether in spoken or written form. I believe this is important to take into account in orther to diminish the misunderstandings that do occur on a forum like this.

Bye

/BP

 

[Castilian]

Instead of writing anything you want and then blame the reciever if he thinks it's patronizing.

I wasn't blaming anyone. I respect anyone's point of view about my words. I was just telling my point of view about my own words because it wasn't clear enough and it's different than the point of view supported by some other users. To explain how I see them doesn't mean to blame those who see them in any other way. To disagree with other points of view doesn't mean either blaming neither them nor the people making them. In fact, diversity of points of view might enrich us if we are open minded enough.

I believe that communication between two persons (or more) is much more complex than what you describe in your previous post

I agree with that. But I think that if I had provided a full explanation about how I consider that communication works I would have risked to considered condescending once again.

P.S.: What about if we agree to disagree and stick to camino stuff?

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

To explain how I see them doesn't mean to blame those who see them in any other way. To disagree with other points of view doesn't mean either blaming neither them nor the people making them. In fact, diversity of points of view might enrich us if we are open minded enough.

Hi,

This is true, word by word, but those are not the points I was trying to make. I don't follow. But yes, we can leave it there if you like.

I agree with that. But I think that if I had provided a full explanation about how I consider that communication works I would have risked to considered condescending once again.

Just to clarify: being offended is not my main concern. It was how you imply that it's my fault if I get offended, and that there was no problem with your post in the first place. I don't agree about that.

We can agree to disagree about human communication, which of course can get out of topic on this forum. My fault. As for the rest, let's just leave it there.

/BP

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

Why oh why did I have to get back to work... The final stage will never see the light of day... I'm trying though

 

[Albertagirl]

It's the first time ever that I read someone refering to a rollo as a sculpture. I guess they didn't tell you what was and what meant a rollo.

@Castilian
I have no idea to what either of you is referring here and my Spanish dictionary is no help. I am a very curious person. If you don't want to risk getting your discussion with Bad Pilgrim going again, could you possible send me a PM with a description of the statue to which he is referring and an explanation of "rollo?" If you would prefer not to, I shall just keep my ears open to where I hear the word in future and see if I can understand it.

 

[peregrina2000]

@Castilian
I have no idea to what either of you is referring here and my Spanish dictionary is no help. I am a very curious person. If you don't want to risk getting your discussion with Bad Pilgrim going again, could you possible send me a PM with a description of the statue to which he is referring and an explanation of "rollo?" If you would prefer not to, I shall just keep my ears open to where I hear the word in future and see if I can understand it.

Hi, Albertagirl, here is my (probably imprecise) explanation -- they are referring to a column, which in the "old days" indicated something important about the city/town's powers and jurisdiction. There is a quite beautiful one in Villalon de Campos (check out Wikipedia https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo_(administración), and I heard that the consensus is that it was built by one of those involved in the construction of the Burgos cathedral.

In colloquial Spanish, it means something like a "hassle" or "complicated mess" -- there may be some etymological connection between the two, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Albertagirl]

Hi, Albertagirl, here is my (probably imprecise) explanation -- they are referring to a column, which in the "old days" indicated something important about the city/town's powers and jurisdiction. There is a quite beautiful one in Villalon de Campos (check out Wikipedia https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo_(administración), and I heard that the consensus is that it was built by one of those involved in the construction of the Burgos cathedral.

In colloquial Spanish, it means something like a "hassle" or "complicated mess" -- there may be some etymological connection between the two, but I don't know for sure.

@peregrina2000
Thank you. I tried Google but just got Latin American uses of the word and nothing related to any sort of monument. So I was quite confused.

 

[KinkyOne]

@Castilian
I have no idea to what either of you is referring here and my Spanish dictionary is no help. I am a very curious person. If you don't want to risk getting your discussion with Bad Pilgrim going again, could you possible send me a PM with a description of the statue to which he is referring and an explanation of "rollo?" If you would prefer not to, I shall just keep my ears open to where I hear the word in future and see if I can understand it.

Laurie answered your question and I'm only adding few photos of the mentioned rollo.

 

[Albertagirl]

Laurie answered your question and I'm only adding few photos of the mentioned rollo.

@KinkyOne
Thank you. I am always grateful to the many members of this forum who pass on information.

 

[Canuck]

@peregrina2000
Thank you. I tried Google but just got Latin American uses of the word and nothing related to any sort of monument. So I was quite confused.

Google: Rollo de justicia.
All kinds of info, in Spanish.

Jean-Marc

 

[sulu]

Well, Max Long says both the Borbónica and the Romana gets you to Fuenfría but I would like to know which one is the shortest/easiest since the uphill path was killing me. I took the Romana, wich is the left one if you are standing in front of the split. The right one is the calzada Borbónica, according to an information panel at the spot. Now this Romana alternative was devoid of arrows and really hard for the last 100 meters, which consisted more of climbing than walking. But it emerged right at the top of Fuenfría, which is the highest point of the day, and of the entire Madrid route. A week later, another peregrino would assure me that I had done the right choice and that the Romana is the "easier" one, but I'm not sure he understood what part of the stretch I was talking about. I somehow suspect that the Borbónica might be easier.

Hi BP! is this the bit you mean?

The stoney one is the Borbonica and the steeper of the two but the one indicated as the camino, though at this point the arrow does simply point around the corner!! The Calzada Romana is the easier though it does not have arrows just green blobs on the trees.
The Borbonica was built by order of Felipe V a Bourbon king in a hurry, he wanted a shorter route to get from Madrid to his palace at La Granja de San Ildefonso. So the Calzada romana is the easier and the Borbonica the shorter!
I followed the green blobs from the mid point and didn't have any problems.

 

[sulu]

So it is clear that the arrows/mojones take you over the canal to walk on the right side now. And is this the way that gets overgrown at the end right before Grajal? If the right side is hard to navigate, is there any reason not to stay on the left side (which is the way I went, so I'm assuming that it's where the arrows sent me in 2012. I'm not one to ignore arrows)?

To add to the confusion! I didn't walk up a canal, my guide, and the arrows, told me to walk up the right side of the River Valderaduey, which I did. It was a nice wide path, admittedly there was an area where someone had done some burning of undergrowth so this maybe where it was overgrown earlier. I suspect that the condition of some paths depends on the time of year. The path now goes under the high speed train track and from here I didn't see another arrow until I reached the Frances, I simply walked up the road.

 

[KinkyOne]

Hi BP! is this the bit you mean?
View attachment 29461
The stoney one is the Borbonica and the steeper of the two but the one indicated as the camino, though at this point the arrow does simply point around the corner!! The Calzada Romana is the easier though it does not have arrows just green blobs on the trees.
The Borbonica was built by order of Felipe V a Bourbon king in a hurry, he wanted a shorter route to get from Madrid to his palace at La Granja de San Ildefonso. So the Calzada romana is the easier and the Borbonica the shorter!
I followed the green blobs from the mid point and didn't have any problems.

I can second that taking Calzada Romana is actually THE Camino. Whether it's easier I don't know because in rain and wind I was cursing so much I was almost louder than the nature..., aghhhhhrrrrrrrrrr
But I did my own Borbonica to La Granja next day. Well worth it. Next time I'm landing in Segovia though!

 

[Sheffield James]

Oh, I'd really like to do that route. I have learned how to deal with dogs so it's not a problem for me.
BP

How do you do it, BP?

 

[naturmenneske]

Why oh why did I have to get back to work... The final stage will never see the light of day... I'm trying though

Thank you for all the information. I am planning to walk from Madrid in Mars 2017.

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

Hi BP! is this the bit you mean?
View attachment 29461
The stoney one is the Borbonica and the steeper of the two but the one indicated as the camino, though at this point the arrow does simply point around the corner!! The Calzada Romana is the easier though it does not have arrows just green blobs on the trees.
The Borbonica was built by order of Felipe V a Bourbon king in a hurry, he wanted a shorter route to get from Madrid to his palace at La Granja de San Ildefonso. So the Calzada romana is the easier and the Borbonica the shorter!
I followed the green blobs from the mid point and didn't have any problems.

Okay, yes, I took the one to the left of your photo! Thanks for the info.

/BP

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

Hi folks,

better late than never... Here is the final stage of my journey!

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

STAGE TEN: VILLALÓN DE CAMPOS – SAHAGÚN. 4 of July. 39 KMS

I decided to reach Sahagún the same day. This was my last stage on the Camino de Madrid so the thought of reaching my goal gave me some extra energy! Although I didn’t know by then that an annoying misfortune would slow me down and that I would arrive in Sahagún much later than I had expected.

This is the meseta so I haven’t got much to say about the scenery. Flat, sun, wide sky, not a drop of rain since Madrid. The arrows were now scarce or fading away, far from the shining waymarks that had guided me at the beginning ten days ago.

First I arrived in Fontihoyuelo, the smallest hamlet on the camino. I was greeted by the only loose dog behaving aggressively (or pretending to do so) that I saw during my walk. First he was barking loudly, then sneaking up from behind and snarling at my calves as if he would attack me any moment. You know the game. And I did what I always do when this happens: I ignored him and kept on going. Some guys were working at a house and called the dog back so he finally left me. In fact, I passed at least three houses in this hamlet where people were doing restoration work: painting, hammering, cleaning… If this is the smallest place of the Camino de Madrid, it’s nice to see that people are willing to put some effort into making the houses look nice. But this place is so tiny that it must be really lonely here (my definition of lonely means: no bar). I imagined those new houses to be summer houses for inhabitants from larger towns nearby, a place to get away from a stressful life perhaps.

Then something unexpected happened. The next village, Santervás de Campos, turned up too soon. It’s usually the other way around… Max Long says it’s 12 kms between Fontihoyelo and Santervás de Campos but I was there in no time. The guidebook says 9 kms but even this is strange. I think I read on another pilgrim’s blog that he also found this to be odd. Well, at least a pleasant surprise in terms of distance.

Anyway, Santervás de Campos boasts a bar with a store where pilgrims can buy everything they need – good idea! I browsed through their supply. The bar is located uphill, close to the church if I remember it correctly, and is easy to find. It’s also an albergue, run by the bar’s owner, which has 24 beds according to Max Long. No need to sleep on the floor if you choose to stay.

Leaving Santervás there are two options. The one to the left runs through Melgar de Arriba and is longer. I took the shorter way directly to Arenillas de Valderaduey, to save 2 kms, sorry… My excuse is that both of my sources say the shorter option is the official one.

There’s a most refreshing fountain in Arenillas de Valderaduey just when you leave the village. After this point my day became really difficult: only 13 kms from my goal! I commenced what I thought would be my glorious conquering of Sahagún, walking on a path that steadily became more and more overgrown. Max Long stated: ”From Arenillas, a pleasant path parallel to the river takes us to Grajal de Campos”. Yeah right! The branches snapped at my legs (I wear shorts) and soon every step required an effort. Midday heat was approaching and I began to feel sick. I had just been cured from the heat stroke I suffered a few days back and I had no wish to repeat the experience. I could see the tower of the church in Grajal de Campos in front of me but this didn’t reassure me. I didn’t know if this path was the Camino or if it was a dead end, meaning that it would eventually merge with the bushes by the canal on my left. (The canal itself was nowhere to be seen due to the thick vegetation). If I was wrong I would have to go back from where I came, in the same terrain, and surely risk to get sick again because of the exhaustion.

Max Long had no information at this point and the guidebook only confused me. I decided to abandon the jungle, turn slightly to my right and walk straight across the fields to take the shortest way possible to the tower in front of me. The railway barred my route but it looked like there could be a tunnel. The fields were just as bad as the overgrown path, with dry grass scratching my legs and entering my shoes. At least now I know the meaning of a short cut. It’s because it cuts your legs!

There was in fact a tunnel. The town emerged at the other side of the railway. But as I entered I saw no people whatsoever. I lost sight of the church tower amongst the buildings. I decided to follow any street that led upwards because normally that’s where you’d put a church. I was afraid I wasn’t even in the right town since I had given up on my maps and the guidebook. Finally I entered a square with a sign that said ”Grajal de Campos” – the only way to convince me that my misfortune was over. A bar was open where I could rest my battered legs. I fished out my guidebook again and tried to see where I went wrong after the last village, but I couldn’t understand it.

This has been debated on the Forum where I post these messages so I’ll try to summarize. The path that I walked on does lead to Grajal de Campos but for me it was impossible to push through. On the other hand, pilgrims from earlier years and walking in other seasons have had no problems with it. But my guidebook seems to show another way further to the right, on another road. Although I didn’t see any arrow telling me to turn in this direction after Arenillas de Valderaduey so I don’t know if there are waymarks on this option. Finally, another pilgrim claims that it is possible to walk to the left of the canal and that arrows even pointed this way earlier. I find it difficult to give advice here. All three options should lead to Grajal de Campos but I only have experience of a bad one…

Six more kilometers and I reached Sahagún. I thought of all the hardships and the beauty of this Camino as I passed the sanctuary at the outskirts and entered among the first houses. I thought I would recognize this town since I had been here before on the Camino Francés. I have nice memories from it and from the people I met there. But that was 7 years ago and I realized, somewhat astonished, that I didn’t recall any street or building. The fact that I entered from another angle than pilgrims coming from the Camino Francés didn’t help either.

I knew there would be a lot of albergues but before I knew it I stumbled upon the main square in Sahagún where the bars line up and… yes, the first one I entered had rooms. To celebrate, a room of my own… I would make acquaintance with the hordes of pilgrims the following days anyway. My plan was to get to León in two days, then to turn northwards on the Camino del Salvador.

I desperately needed to put my clothes in a washing machine. I know washing isn’t part of the service when you stay at a bar, but I sometimes ask if they can at least let me use their machine for a few euros. Yes, a bit embarrassing, but I loathe washing my clothes by hand. I usually fall asleep in the sink because it bores me to death. Well, the guy said that the laundry room was occupied and that they had a lot of things to take care of but that he would bring my clothes to his home and wash them there. He wouldn’t accept any money. Humble pilgrim-smile! Although later on I discovered that my only towel had gone missing, probably while my clothes made their way to and from the laundry. But I didn’t mind. This was extremely kind of him.

I was in my bed just under the roof-top when a storm broke out. Pouring rain and lightning! I snuggled up under the covers and slept like a baby in the darkness.

What happened next? I walked two days from Sahagún to León, then Camino del Salvador, then Camino Primitivo to Santiago de Compostela. But that’s another story…


So, using the ISCR (International Standard of Camino Rating), here is my verdict on the Camino de Madrid:

Angry Dog encountered: 1

Angry Hospitalera encountered: 1

Mosquito encountered: 1.000.000.000. Between Cercedilla and Segovia.

Drops of rain: 0

Degree of solitude: above average. This Camino finishes between La Vía de la Plata (which is less lonely) and El Camino del Sureste and Levante (which are lonelier).

Temperature: 30-40 degrees Celsius in summer.

Waymarks rating: excellent at first, declining towards Sahagún.

Washing by hand vs Washing machine: about 50 % - 50% (very important criterion)

Heat strokes suffered: 1

Nemesis encountered: 3. Heat stroke. Mosquito Attack. Pine Forest.

Camino Strength acquired: Enhanced ability to endure hedgehog socks due to Pine Forest.

Final rating: I give this Camino 4 umbrellas out of 5!

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

It was a nice wide path, admittedly there was an area where someone had done some burning of undergrowth so this maybe where it was overgrown earlier. I suspect that the condition of some paths depends on the time of year.

I agree, the season must be crucial. I wonder what it looks like now in winter - and if it's possible to get through again in spring. But there's also a risk that it's a neglected path and that it will become worse from year to year?! Only a hardy pilgrim of 2017 can give us the answer!

/BP

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

How do you do it, BP?

Well I learned over the years that they only pretend. If they attacked pilgrims for real they wouldn't be there - that's my logic. This especially works for me when the dog clearly belongs to the village I'm entering (thus not running around in the fields), like so many times in the small towns of el Camino del Invierno. If they attacked people - what about other visitors? And how can you keep children in these towns? Wouldn't everyone get attacked? :O) No, if the dogs are in the village it's pretty clear they aren't a threat, no matter how loud they bark at you!

/BP

 

[peregrina2000]

Well I learned over the years that they only pretend. If they attacked pilgrims for real they wouldn't be there - that's my logic. This especially works for me when the dog clearly belongs to the village I'm entering (thus not running around in the fields), like so many times in the small towns of el Camino del Invierno. If they attacked people - what about other visitors? And how can you keep children in these towns? Wouldn't everyone get attacked? :O) No, if the dogs are in the village it's pretty clear they aren't a threat, no matter how loud they bark at you!

/BP

I was just having a PM conversation about the fear many women have of walking alone. My thought is that if a woman can't get over her fear, even with all the undisputed facts that the camino is one of the safest places in the world, then it's a fear that can't be overcome easily. It may not be a rational fear, but it is truly a real fear. And probably the best thing for that woman is to walk with others. I don't have a fear of walking alone, but dogs are my fear. I know it is irrational, and I always have walked alone anyway, but the truth is I get anxious when I hear dogs barking. But now that I think about what Bad Pilgrim is saying, I may be getting close to conquering it!

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

I was just having a PM conversation about the fear many women have of walking alone. My thought is that if a woman can't get over her fear, even with all the undisputed facts that the camino is one of the safest places in the world, then it's a fear that can't be overcome easily. It may not be a rational fear, but it is truly a real fear. And probably the best thing for that woman is to walk with others. I don't have a fear of walking alone, but dogs are my fear. I know it is irrational, and I always have walked alone anyway, but the truth is I get anxious when I hear dogs barking. But now that I think about what Bad Pilgrim is saying, I may be getting close to conquering it!

Yes I know it's an irrational fear - it took me one or two Caminos to figure this out. I was worried to death about dogs at first, because I had no experience! On the other hand, I don't mean that I ignore them mentally... it's hard to describe. Like: at the same time that I just keep going, I'm mentally prepared that I have to show them who decides if they get too cocky. This has happened a few times. I don't mean using walking poles to hit them (I don't have any) but rather shouting angrily at them, like "that's enough now!". I'm also prepared to pretend to do the "pick up a stone" move if needed, though I haven't had to do that yet. So ok I should correct myself: I mean that rather than ignoring them, I mentally have an array of things to try with the dogs that keeps me reassured. It's just that "walking right through and ignoring" works 90 % of the time.

As for getting anxious when hearing dogs bark, yes, me too. Camino del Invierno...! I was like "Gee not again... a dog in every town..." :O0

/BP

 

[KinkyOne]

Bit of an off-topic but I'll post it nevertheless. About dogs that is.

I don't have really bad experience with loose dogs on my Caminos (not even on Invierno apart from very loud big mastiff, or similar, in Villavieja before Castillo Cornatel) and I usually greet them with: "Y tu mama tambien" and get a lot of giggling from their owners
But in 2015 on the Camino Finisterre in first village after Santa Marina (A Gueima?) there came a pack of loose dogs, maybe 8-10 of them from the side street right at my back. And not a living soul in sight. The dogs were silent apart from snarls. OK, don't panic, just walk on and swing your poles behind you. Keep calm. But then came a biiig german shepherd from the courtyard on the right. Oh, shit! I stopped for a moment and noticed that he's of no threat to me as he was looking at those dogs behind me. And I passed him and everything was going to be all right. Like he'd be sorting out the situation for me Not really. Some 20 meters uphill the dogs were again on my tail. What the hell happened? Some sort of bribe??? And again, I'm not kidding, there came the second german shepherd from another courtyard! Same situation all over again but with much better outcome for me. I guess the loose dogs were out of their means for bribing the second watch dog and he didn't let them pass through his territory
I find it funny now but in that moment - it wasn't really

Sorry for off-topic!

 

[naturmenneske]

STAGE TEN: VILLALÓN DE CAMPOS – SAHAGÚN. 4 of July. 39 KMS

I decided to reach Sahagún the same day. This was my last stage on the Camino de Madrid so the thought of reaching my goal gave me some extra energy! Although I didn’t know by then that an annoying misfortune would slow me down and that I would arrive in Sahagún much later than I had expected.

This is the meseta so I haven’t got much to say about the scenery. Flat, sun, wide sky, not a drop of rain since Madrid. The arrows were now scarce or fading away, far from the shining waymarks that had guided me at the beginning ten days ago.

First I arrived in Fontihoyuelo, the smallest hamlet on the camino. I was greeted by the only loose dog behaving aggressively (or pretending to do so) that I saw during my walk. First he was barking loudly, then sneaking up from behind and snarling at my calves as if he would attack me any moment. You know the game. And I did what I always do when this happens: I ignored him and kept on going. Some guys were working at a house and called the dog back so he finally left me. In fact, I passed at least three houses in this hamlet where people were doing restoration work: painting, hammering, cleaning… If this is the smallest place of the Camino de Madrid, it’s nice to see that people are willing to put some effort into making the houses look nice. But this place is so tiny that it must be really lonely here (my definition of lonely means: no bar). I imagined those new houses to be summer houses for inhabitants from larger towns nearby, a place to get away from a stressful life perhaps.

Then something unexpected happened. The next village, Santervás de Campos, turned up too soon. It’s usually the other way around… Max Long says it’s 12 kms between Fontihoyelo and Santervás de Campos but I was there in no time. The guidebook says 9 kms but even this is strange. I think I read on another pilgrim’s blog that he also found this to be odd. Well, at least a pleasant surprise in terms of distance.

Anyway, Santervás de Campos boasts a bar with a store where pilgrims can buy everything they need – good idea! I browsed through their supply. The bar is located uphill, close to the church if I remember it correctly, and is easy to find. It’s also an albergue, run by the bar’s owner, which has 24 beds according to Max Long. No need to sleep on the floor if you choose to stay.

Leaving Santervás there are two options. The one to the left runs through Melgar de Arriba and is longer. I took the shorter way directly to Arenillas de Valderaduey, to save 2 kms, sorry… My excuse is that both of my sources say the shorter option is the official one.

There’s a most refreshing fountain in Arenillas de Valderaduey just when you leave the village. After this point my day became really difficult: only 13 kms from my goal! I commenced what I thought would be my glorious conquering of Sahagún, walking on a path that steadily became more and more overgrown. Max Long stated: ”From Arenillas, a pleasant path parallel to the river takes us to Grajal de Campos”. Yeah right! The branches snapped at my legs (I wear shorts) and soon every step required an effort. Midday heat was approaching and I began to feel sick. I had just been cured from the heat stroke I suffered a few days back and I had no wish to repeat the experience. I could see the tower of the church in Grajal de Campos in front of me but this didn’t reassure me. I didn’t know if this path was the Camino or if it was a dead end, meaning that it would eventually merge with the bushes by the canal on my left. (The canal itself was nowhere to be seen due to the thick vegetation). If I was wrong I would have to go back from where I came, in the same terrain, and surely risk to get sick again because of the exhaustion.

Max Long had no information at this point and the guidebook only confused me. I decided to abandon the jungle, turn slightly to my right and walk straight across the fields to take the shortest way possible to the tower in front of me. The railway barred my route but it looked like there could be a tunnel. The fields were just as bad as the overgrown path, with dry grass scratching my legs and entering my shoes. At least now I know the meaning of a short cut. It’s because it cuts your legs!

There was in fact a tunnel. The town emerged at the other side of the railway. But as I entered I saw no people whatsoever. I lost sight of the church tower amongst the buildings. I decided to follow any street that led upwards because normally that’s where you’d put a church. I was afraid I wasn’t even in the right town since I had given up on my maps and the guidebook. Finally I entered a square with a sign that said ”Grajal de Campos” – the only way to convince me that my misfortune was over. A bar was open where I could rest my battered legs. I fished out my guidebook again and tried to see where I went wrong after the last village, but I couldn’t understand it.

This has been debated on the Forum where I post these messages so I’ll try to summarize. The path that I walked on does lead to Grajal de Campos but for me it was impossible to push through. On the other hand, pilgrims from earlier years and walking in other seasons have had no problems with it. But my guidebook seems to show another way further to the right, on another road. Although I didn’t see any arrow telling me to turn in this direction after Arenillas de Valderaduey so I don’t know if there are waymarks on this option. Finally, another pilgrim claims that it is possible to walk to the left of the canal and that arrows even pointed this way earlier. I find it difficult to give advice here. All three options should lead to Grajal de Campos but I only have experience of a bad one…

Six more kilometers and I reached Sahagún. I thought of all the hardships and the beauty of this Camino as I passed the sanctuary at the outskirts and entered among the first houses. I thought I would recognize this town since I had been here before on the Camino Francés. I have nice memories from it and from the people I met there. But that was 7 years ago and I realized, somewhat astonished, that I didn’t recall any street or building. The fact that I entered from another angle than pilgrims coming from the Camino Francés didn’t help either.

I knew there would be a lot of albergues but before I knew it I stumbled upon the main square in Sahagún where the bars line up and… yes, the first one I entered had rooms. To celebrate, a room of my own… I would make acquaintance with the hordes of pilgrims the following days anyway. My plan was to get to León in two days, then to turn northwards on the Camino del Salvador.

I desperately needed to put my clothes in a washing machine. I know washing isn’t part of the service when you stay at a bar, but I sometimes ask if they can at least let me use their machine for a few euros. Yes, a bit embarrassing, but I loathe washing my clothes by hand. I usually fall asleep in the sink because it bores me to death. Well, the guy said that the laundry room was occupied and that they had a lot of things to take care of but that he would bring my clothes to his home and wash them there. He wouldn’t accept any money. Humble pilgrim-smile! Although later on I discovered that my only towel had gone missing, probably while my clothes made their way to and from the laundry. But I didn’t mind. This was extremely kind of him.

I was in my bed just under the roof-top when a storm broke out. Pouring rain and lightning! I snuggled up under the covers and slept like a baby in the darkness.

What happened next? I walked two days from Sahagún to León, then Camino del Salvador, then Camino Primitivo to Santiago de Compostela. But that’s another story…


So, using the ISCR (International Standard of Camino Rating), here is my verdict on the Camino de Madrid:

Angry Dog encountered: 1

Angry Hospitalera encountered: 1

Mosquito encountered: 1.000.000.000. Between Cercedilla and Segovia.

Drops of rain: 0

Degree of solitude: above average. This Camino finishes between La Vía de la Plata (which is less lonely) and El Camino del Sureste and Levante (which are lonelier).

Temperature: 30-40 degrees Celsius in summer.

Waymarks rating: excellent at first, declining towards Sahagún.

Washing by hand vs Washing machine: about 50 % - 50% (very important criterion)

Heat strokes suffered: 1

Nemesis encountered: 3. Heat stroke. Mosquito Attack. Pine Forest.

Camino Strength acquired: Enhanced ability to endure hedgehog socks due to Pine Forest.

Final rating: I give this Camino 4 umbrellas out of 5!

Thank you for sharing this. I look forward to my walk in Mars. It has been useful to read. I run away from the norvegian winter. Last winter I walked from Sevilla to Santiago so I know I will get wet weather and no mosquito or too much heat. Two years ago I went from Burgos and met a lot of snow. I hope there will be no snow from Madrid.

 

[KinkyOne]

Thank you for sharing this. I look forward to my walk in Mars. It has been useful to read. I run away from the norvegian winter. Last winter I walked from Sevilla to Santiago so I know I will get wet weather and no mosquito or too much heat. Two years ago I went from Burgos and met a lot of snow. I hope there will be no snow from Madrid.

On the stage between Cercedilla and Segovia you can expect some snow higher up at the Fuenfria pass but otherwise most likely not or maybe some snowflakes here and there. Anyway better be prepared for "the worse"

Buen Camino!

 

[peregrina2000]

A couple of years ago, I had a free day in Madrid in early February, and I walked from Cercedilla to Segovia. There was a little, but not much, snow. I think it was Joe (jpflavin) who recorded a lot of snow up at the same spot, and he walked a couple of months later. So you just can't predic, but as Kinky says, you should be prepared. It's not as remote as the Salvador mountain route, but I imagine it would be easy to get disoriented and lost up around the pass if there were a lot of snow.

 

[naturmenneske]

Thank you for your warning. I am used with snow and will be careful so I don't miss the waymarking. The picture is from my homeplace in november.

 

[KinkyOne]

Thank you for your warning. I am used with snow and will be careful so I don't miss the waymarking. The picture is from my homeplace in november.

That's one nice homeplace

 

[nathanael]

Hi everyone,

I'm back form the Camino de Madrid so I promised I would write something about it. This will be much shorter than the writings I did on the Camino de Sureste, because there are others who have written so much about the Madrid. I do this just for my own personal debriefing, and also to point out where there are errors or confusion regarding the guidebooks.

I used the Asociación de Amigos de los Caminos de Santiago de Madrid (spanish, available if you order it from Spain), along with the guidebook written by Max Long from 2013 (english), available here on the Forum. So my focus will be on commenting these guides in order to help future pilgrims!

Let's go!

/Bad Pilgrim

Hi there am thinking of doing the Camino de Madrid, two questions where do you get the guide by Max Long and also am familiar with Madrid and always stay in Puerta del Sol . Where about does the Camino start from..can you give me some directions...thanks.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Hola - I've updated the guide to this route with help and information from members of the forum. It is available from the CSJ bookshop www.csj.org.uk and will soon be released for Kindle.

Buen Camino

John

 

[nathanael]

Hi everyone,

I'm back form the Camino de Madrid so I promised I would write something about it. This will be much shorter than the writings I did on the Camino de Sureste, because there are others who have written so much about the Madrid. I do this just for my own personal debriefing, and also to point out where there are errors or confusion regarding the guidebooks.

I used the Asociación de Amigos de los Caminos de Santiago de Madrid (spanish, available if you order it from Spain), along with the guidebook written by Max Long from 2013 (english), available here on the Forum. So my focus will be on commenting these guides in order to help future pilgrims!

Let's go!

/Bad Pilgrim

I have a question about this Camino, I read somewhere that you should not start from Madrid but take a bus to Colmenar and actually make this your walking start. Do you agree? personally I would rather start from Madrid.

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

I have a question about this Camino, I read somewhere that you should not start from Madrid but take a bus to Colmenar and actually make this your walking start. Do you agree? personally I would rather start from Madrid.

Hi Nathanael,

The Max Long guidebook is here on the Forum, in the section "ressources" I would think... And yes I also think you should start in Madrid! I don't remember the name of the place where it starts in the city - but you can easily look it up in the guidebook. Or others here on the Forum will tell you, they know the details! :O)

/BP

 

[jpflavin1]

I have a question about this Camino, I read somewhere that you should not start from Madrid but take a bus to Colmenar and actually make this your walking start. Do you agree? personally I would rather start from Madrid.

Nathanael:

I do not know why someone would say that. It is well marked and easy to find your way. Not like Burgos and Leon. As you leave the city there are a couple of spots where you can miss a mark. When in doubt stay to the right.

Several of Madrid walkers have noted a spot or two that was not as well marked or missed for some reason. I suggest you read through some of the threads and if you have a specific question just ask by posting a reply on that persons comment. This will flag them that there is a question out there.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[peregrina2000]

I have a question about this Camino, I read somewhere that you should not start from Madrid but take a bus to Colmenar and actually make this your walking start. Do you agree? personally I would rather start from Madrid.

Hi, nathanael,
I agree with jpflavin completely. The exit from Madrid is painless, no industrial parks, no ugly dumps. You go down the Castellana past the famous "four teeth" buildings, then you turn and go past a big hospital complex, and in a short time you go under the M-40 (a ring highway) and then presto you are in the country. It is maybe not as nice as leaving Santiago on the Camino de Finisterre, but it is really quite nice.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Please note the Albergue at Grajal de Campos has been refurbished and is open.

Kindle version of the Guide available here :

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XT45ZWJ

 

[nathanael]

Hi, nathanael,
I agree with jpflavin completely. The exit from Madrid is painless, no industrial parks, no ugly dumps. You go down the Castellana past the famous "four teeth" buildings, then you turn and go past a big hospital complex, and in a short time you go under the M-40 (a ring highway) and then presto you are in the country. It is maybe not as nice as leaving Santiago on the Camino de Finisterre, but it is really quite nice.

Hi and thanks for info, I am getting mixed revies on this Camino. One person who has noted all the towns to stop at seem to indict that hostals are rare and hotels seem to be the venue. This individual also states Confraternity of St. James is out of date. I purchased one and wonder how it will work out.

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

I couldn't help but noticing what Magwood writes about the way to Grajal de Campos in her blog, recently published. If I may quote her:

"The banks of the river had been burned off and there were fried snail shells all along the way – I wondered what other poor creatures had been decimated by this treatment. Lots of trees had also suffered – a rather extreme method of weed control, but maybe better than liquid weed killer alongside a waterway."

I suppose they do this from time to time (once a year?) but I believe the vegetation comes back quickly... Could it be overgrown already in July?

This is a comment to a previous conversation about an overgrown road before Grajal de Campos, and whether it is transitable or not, if you're not following...

/BP

 

[Marigold Mama]

Oh how

Probably, lack of interest on what you find along the route. You arrive to some place (e.g.: Coca), you don't feel attracted by it and you think: What am I go to make here the rest of the day? Nothing positive/of your interest comes to your mind and you wonder: Why don't I go to the next one (Villeguillo)? You arrive to the next one... and same story. Till there's a point where you feel enough is enough and you consider that you have to stop not (so much) because you arrived to a place of your interest but because you just are too tired to walk more.

If you were interested, for example, on all/some/any of the art/history Coca (or any other place along the route) had to offer, you would have stopped there and you would have tried to visit all the opened sights that were of your interest. If you were interested, for example, on the flora and fauna of the route, you would take your time to stop and/or slow down your pace to appreciate it, to look for small animals you might miss if you just push through the route, to hear the birds... If you were interested on... but when nothing of what the route has to offer is of your interest, then you don't feel any need to stop, to see, to enjoy, to discover... and you just keep pushing. And the more you push, the less aware you are of all what you are missing.

Oh how right you are. And to compare one camino with another seems a bit coarse. And closed minded. Thank you for pointing out what could be enjoyed if one so wished. Hopefully, by doing so others won't be put off by negativity.

 

[Marigold Mama]

@Castilian
I have no idea to what either of you is referring here and my Spanish dictionary is no help. I am a very curious person. If you don't want to risk getting your discussion with Bad Pilgrim going again, could you possible send me a PM with a description of the statue to which he is referring and an explanation of "rollo?" If you would prefer not to, I shall just keep my ears open to where I hear the word in future and see if I can understand it.

Well, I sure wouldn't mind knowing what a "rollo" is especially after enduring the boys hassling back and forth in hopes of finding the answer: "What is a rollo?!" and it wasn't there! Dang talk about disappointed. I Googled it and was informed it was a "roll". Huh? Ah, life. One mystery after another. sigh

 

[Marigold Mama]

Thank you for your warning. I am used with snow and will be careful so I don't miss the waymarking. The picture is from my homeplace in november.

Oh how very lovely. When there is snow on the ground and all is blanketed isn't the quiet superb and complete. Thank you for showing us your home terrain.

 

[CaminoMatt73]

Problelm solved -- future pilgrims on the Camino de Madrid -- when you leave Arenillas, stay on the left side of the canal, and you will be fine !!!

Thanks, leaving Thursday morning from Madrid. I’ll write that down now

 

[Pilgrim9]

BP: Thank you for this very well-written, informative, and entertaining series on the Camino de Madrid.