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My mentoring truism: a fool and his money are easily parted.

Discussion in 'Via de la Plata' started by Ian Afloat, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. Ian Afloat

    Ian Afloat Active Member

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    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
    christy wharton, Kanga, SEB and 3 others like this.
  2. Icacos

    Icacos Veteran Member Donating Member

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    Thank goodness they've provided their route. So I can give them a wide berth !! :confused::eek: I see what you mean about your lunch !
     
  3. alansykes

    alansykes Veteran Member Donating Member

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    I have obviously missed out on previous caminos, as I don't remember ever "experiencing a methodology that supported me to gain perspective on what is important to me", nor did I ever "update my reality map and create an action plan for the future".

    How did I manage?
     
    ginniek, Karen Cap, JCLima and 18 others like this.
  4. nycwalking

    nycwalking Active Member

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    Darn, I wondered why my caminos had not been.... Next time, I will spend that 1,650E, so I can learn about other cultures, walk through villages with Europeans, I guess non-Euros such as I do not factor into the equation, and get that mentoring other caminos lacked.
     
  5. Rick of Rick and Peg

    Rick of Rick and Peg Veteran Member Donating Member

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    :confused: I'm confused. Google translate says that page is already in English.
     
  6. Anemone del Camino

    Anemone del Camino Anemone

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    Hey, at least he is offering "coaching". There are many tourism companies, even advertising here that charge the same and don't offer this "management coaching". He might be a very good deal, although his credentials leave one wondering.
     
  7. Rick M

    Rick M Active Member

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    Its in Bu-Speak, a dialect of bafflegab. I can't believe that at one time I was fluent in that language. Fortunately, it does not seem to have come back, and I couldn't make sense of it either.
     
  8. C clearly

    C clearly Veteran Member Donating Member

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    The "expertly guided walking" attracts me.
     
  9. nycwalking

    nycwalking Active Member

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    To all on forum: pay me 1650 euro and I'll guide you expertly.
     
  10. Anemone del Camino

    Anemone del Camino Anemone

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    I would actually really enjoy a guided Camino with a person who could explain the history, the architecture, the politics, etc. But I am fine meeting this person in the morning, and paying a fee for that cultural content, and keep making the rest of my arrangements on my own.
     
  11. martyseville

    martyseville Active Member

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    1,650? No way.

    Come to me folks. For 884 euros per person... you will get my experience of 3 Caminos. My charm.
    The experience that one can only get from truly walking the Camino.

    I will assist you from fitting shoes, packs and more. Then walk all the way with you.

    I will guide you on any Camino you desire. Personal guide so you will not get lost.

    You will learn how to live with snoring people. Walk in the rain and mud. Drink and eat with real people. And more.
    Just for 884 euros.

    Form up in Seville. Then bus, train or walk to where every you desire.

    Note: all cost of transportation, food and lodging is extra and on you.

    For a extra 300 euros I will be your personal guide to Seville.
     
  12. lovingkindness

    lovingkindness Veteran Member

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    ..walking + mentoring...a bit like Aristotle...
    sounds like an interesting week...
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
    Kanga and SabineP like this.
  13. Levi

    Levi Member Donating Member

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    Sad. Corporate nonsense on the beautiful Via....
     
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  14. LTfit

    LTfit Veteran Member Donating Member

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    Something for everyone I guess. The combo walking and talking or meditative walking are excellent for the body and soul, maybe that is why I return year after year - albeit for about €1.000 less with transportation included!
     
  15. RobertS26

    RobertS26 Active Member Donating Member

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    And what would that include? Pointing out the blatantly obvious yellow arrows on fence posts, buildings, and the sidewalk so you don't miss a turn?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  16. Icacos

    Icacos Veteran Member Donating Member

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    The whole thing sounds like too much talking to me. Just give me the sound of silence. :)
     
  17. nycwalking

    nycwalking Active Member

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    Mentoring via silence comes at a 50 euro discount. However, if you are referencing a listen to Simon and Garfunkel's Sound of Silence while being managed is extra.
     
    ginniek, Suzanne S., Icacos and 8 others like this.
  18. Annie Little

    Annie Little Active Member

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    :confused: .... :rolleyes:
     
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  19. Mikel Olivares

    Mikel Olivares Active Member

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    2015, Spring. From S. Jean Pied de Port to Santiago.
    2015, Christmas. From Zizur to Santiago.
    2016, Summer. Portugués, From Oporto to Santiago
    I live on the Camino. Great knowledge of History, Art, popular culture, legends of the Camino. For half of money I make guide and carry the backpack of the client "turigrino"
    Jajajajajajajaj,Lol.
     
    ginniek, HeidiL, Suzanne S. and 6 others like this.
  20. SEB

    SEB Active Member Donating Member

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    I see that they provide pilgrim credencials - WHY?
     
    movinmaggie and Mikel Olivares like this.
  21. Kanga

    Kanga Moderator Staff Member Donating Member

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    Awesome! And alumni get a discount. So it is cheaper the second time.
     
  22. SEB

    SEB Active Member Donating Member

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    Well @Ian Afloat it didn't quite make me revisit my lunch but this marketising of the 'spiritual growth potential' of the Camino really hits like a blow to the solar plexus, but decided 'better out than in', so sent them an email, assuming that they would not be reading comments here on the forum.
     
  23. LTfit

    LTfit Veteran Member Donating Member

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    Curious to hear if you get a response.
     
  24. Rebekah Scott

    Rebekah Scott Camino Busybody Donating Member Donating Member

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    A pilgrimage path as backdrop for pop-psychology personal-development excursion. No mention anywhere of the deep spiritual roots of this walking path and practice, or any background on why their charming infrastructure developed. Nope. It's all about ME.
    I wonder how often one of the "clients" turns pilgrim and busts loose on his own!
     
  25. Rick of Rick and Peg

    Rick of Rick and Peg Veteran Member Donating Member

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    You going to guarantee this Marty by sleeping in the albergue too?

    Note to others: Marty graciously removed himself outdoors on our first night on camino in Valcarlos so the indoor occupants would get some sleep. I imagine he must have suffered a defenestration on some previous camino.
     
  26. beiramar

    beiramar Member

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    I don't really understand why you all make fun of this travel agency.
    So many people here ask for advice and seem to need help with about anything a Camino can involve. What to bring, when to go, where to sleep, how to book, how to fly, which bus, what to eat...
    Seems quite logical to me that booking this type of guidance is quite a good idea for many Camino interested people.
     
  27. Rick M

    Rick M Active Member

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    Its the language. The ad copy itself. I don't make fun of the other travel agencies.....just this one that uses the Camino as a venue for something else. Anyone who spent time in a corporation at the senior level recognizes this language. Companies spend their training budgets teaching their junior workers how to operate the IT systems or run the machines, and motivating their executives to to extend themselves to putting in 26 hours a day. There is a whole industry out their aimed at taking corporate people, or corporate wanna-be's, and making them better, more dedicated, more brain washed, and thus more efficient cogs in the machine. The irony of doing this on the Camino, which I regard as the antidote to this disease, is just too much.

    Or perhaps I just missed your point! Either way, Buen Camino!
     
    JCLima, Annie Little, SYates and 6 others like this.
  28. Finisterre

    Finisterre Active Member

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    Finisterre 2010,
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    No plans to return, yet.
    Some people have lots of money and busy friends. And they like to be taken seriously.
    It happens gradually.

    Sadly it hasn't happened to me.
     
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  29. Waka

    Waka Veteran Member Donating Member

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    I guess if I'd payed all that money I wouldn't have got lost, damn maybe next time.
     
  30. Anemone del Camino

    Anemone del Camino Anemone

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    Not a travel agency, more like Tony Robbins on Camino.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
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  31. Charles Zammit

    Charles Zammit Active Member

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    Having to work with people like this over 25 years ago almost sent me ' Batshit crazy ' .
    The trauma of which still affects me today .
    The worst aspect of this psychobabble is that in most cases the exponent passionately believes in it ; that is until the next new money making scheme presents itself . One clear purpose of my recent Camino was to clear myself of these past scars . The thought of such nonsense polluting the pure and simple walk that the Camino is is horrifying.
     
  32. Kanga

    Kanga Moderator Staff Member Donating Member

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    @Charles Zammit take heart from the vision of the mentor having an encounter with the "deaf"-girls-with-clipboard.
     
  33. HeidiL

    HeidiL Veteran Member Donating Member

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    A place my husband used to work would have loved this - they were very big on corporate doubletalk. If this was the way to get my job to pay for my camino, I guess I'd do it (but I'd probably walk with earplugs to avoid being coached on the way). (No, my job wouldn't pay for anything like this.)
     
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  34. Annie Little

    Annie Little Active Member

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    :D:D
    :D:D:D.... poor Marty has been outed by his Camino friends :cool:... haha
     
  35. Annie Little

    Annie Little Active Member

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    Yes I agree .... the whole purpose, joy and relief of my Camino was to be free of this and everything ... AND .... I can't wait to be that free again !
     
    Charles Zammit and SEB like this.
  36. Ian Afloat

    Ian Afloat Active Member

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    About your mentor:

    "Being a passionate entrepreneur, I have been involved in the launch of several businesses. I was the co-founder of LeonardShop and continue to collaborate with different accelerators and incubators."

    And now in English...
     
  37. SEB

    SEB Active Member Donating Member

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    @LTfit I just received a reply from the owner of the company. As it was a private message it would be inappropriate to paste it here, but the main points were that the venture was the result of many Caminos walked by the person who decided to share what he saw as the benefits with others. He adds that he had to start charging because the pressure of large numbers of people now walking made it difficult to secure accommodation etc. so, to minimise the anxieties about where they would be staying each night, the upfront cost is a way of guaranteeing them peace of mind. I still don't accept - as @Rebekah Scott wrote - using the Camino as a backdrop for this, but acknowledge the courtesy of the person taking the time to respond. In my own experience, in order to learn, the journey needs to be undertaken as a solitary one (notwithstanding meeting and getting to know folk along the way) and to paraphrase the great Van Morrison 'No Guru, No Mentor, No Teacher' except of course the road itself, the destination and for those of us with faith, reference to higher powers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
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  38. Kanga

    Kanga Moderator Staff Member Donating Member

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    It's the psychobabble that made me laugh. Bingo!
     
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  39. Introibo

    Introibo Active Member Donating Member

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    Tut tut tut.
    You're all bringing negative energy to the space they're speaking to.
    You need to take a helicopter view and have a look inside the bonnet
    and get in touch with your inner chimp.

    Maybe the market's flooded with "motivational books" and this is a
    new outlet ? If it floats your boat then why not join my yogic classes
    on Enterprise Shoelace Tightening ?
     
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  40. Ian Afloat

    Ian Afloat Active Member

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    Do you just accelerate the lace tightening or is incubation involved?
     
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  41. Introibo

    Introibo Active Member Donating Member

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    Whichever attracts the greater fee, going forward.
     
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  42. Priscilla NC

    Priscilla NC Active Member

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    Haha, he got me at "unusual lodging". In my mind's eye, I see them sleeping in horreos.
     
  43. Anemone del Camino

    Anemone del Camino Anemone

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    Not psychobable, managementbable.

    Have you tried reading the book about Zappos? I received it as a present. :confused::confused::confused::confused: And then, all these "coaching certifications": pay €£¥$ and become certifies. :mad:
     
  44. MichaelC

    MichaelC Active Member

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    The babble is everywhere. I was recently invited to an "epicurean journey" hosted by a "brand ambassador" (i.e., wine rep). The "Dinner Experience" (I wish I was making that term up) was $180.

    Sadly, there was no word on whether the experience included alternative lodging. That would have made for a fun night.
     
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  45. Anemone del Camino

    Anemone del Camino Anemone

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    My brother was once "brand ambassador" for a very well known spirit. The job title lifted his spirit, and perhaps made him take a lower paying job because of the title. All the relatives, not in the business, were so impressed by the new job. Little dod they know he was basically a barman at private or marketing functions.

    Alas this nonesense works for/on many. I felt so sorry for him for being conned.
     
  46. Annie Little

    Annie Little Active Member

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    :cool:... Can we get back to talking about El Camino now ? and not the psycho babble o_O.... i wish to leave the real and unreal world when I go walking and be in nature and JUST BE
     
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  47. John Finn

    John Finn Active Member

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    Carrigtwohill, County Cork, Ireland
    Camino(s) past & future:
    Camino de Frances - Sarria to Santiago (2013), Burgos to Leon (2014), St Jean Pied de Port to Logrono (2015), Logrono to Burgos (2016), Leon to Sarria (May 2017).
    Very sad indeed. One of the attractions of the Camino is the opportunity to get away from corporate gobbledygook and psychobabble. Paying through the nose to have it foisted on you is surely the mark of a masochist.
     
    Annie Little likes this.
  48. Joan Adams

    Joan Adams New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1
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    1
    Camino(s) past & future:
    Camino Portuguese Sep 2017
    Jeez. Each to his own. Is a true pilgrim not less judgemental and acknowledges a place for everyone and everything? Some people seem to think a Camino or pilgrimage must only be done one way...their way...and everyone else is batshit crazy!
     
    Bogong likes this.
  49. Martha567

    Martha567 Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2016
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Camino(s) past & future:
    Astorga to SdC May 2016
  50. Karen Cap

    Karen Cap Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    58
    Location:
    Midway,GA
    Camino(s) past & future:
    September2016
    Haha!!!
     
  51. terryvinet

    terryvinet New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    St. Thomas Ontario Canada
    Camino(s) past & future:
    Camino Frances September 2013
    VDLP September 2016
    My best advice is;

    "Todo directo"
     
  52. Jose chemin

    Jose chemin New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2016
    Messages:
    27
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    Camino(s) past & future:
    2014 and 2015 and 2016
    Just go by yourself and if you want to get into the spirit of the camino, just lock on the caminocitations site and take one or two citations that talk to you for each day ; we are all on our path, just try to make it usefull for our personal development. It is a personal search that does not require any paid guide : caminocitationsweb.wordpress.com
     
  53. SEB

    SEB Active Member Donating Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2014
    Messages:
    582
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    Location:
    Scotland
    Camino(s) past & future:
    April (2015) SJPdP to SdC; Porto to SdC April (2016)
    Hi @Joan Adams, welcome to the forum. Wow, but that seems to be an angry first post. The 'true pilgrim' stuff might be a good fire starter for arguments, but it doesn't get too much traction on the forum in terms of those who care about the Camino, the people who walk it while respecting its Christian origins and religious meaning for many modern pilgrims. The 'true plgrim' stuff is just bear-baiting for beginners, and always a 'go to' for trolls and attention seekers, but if you read the very thoughtful posts from @Rebekah Scott, @peregrina2000, @Anniesantiago, @dougfitz and so many other valuable contributors to this forum you will get a idea of the inherent value of walking the Camino. I can't speak for others, but there seems to be a marked cognitive dissonance from those businesses that try to take all that is good and valuable about the Camino in terms of human experiences and attempt to turn it into a marketised, personal growth mentor-led ersatz 'pilgrimage' but with all the difficult religion stuff removed. Still, it doesn't make me angry it makes me sad because the non-store bought Camino pilgrimage with all its highs and lows is price-less. Bom Caminho in September!
     
  54. Flem

    Flem New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    26
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    12
    Location:
    Denmark
    Camino(s) past & future:
    Camino Denmark 2015 Padborg - Viborg
    Camino Fances 2015 SJPdP-Santiago de Compostela
    Camino Finisterre-Muxia 2016
    Camino Denmark 2016 Hirtshals - Løgstør
    Jakobweg (Via Jacobi) 2016 Brunnen - Merligen
    Camino Portogues 2016 - Lisboa-Tomar, Porto- Santiago de Compostela
    Oh yes the camino deffently seems to have been a moneytree for the moneyturisme.
     
  55. Jeff Crawley

    Jeff Crawley Veteran Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Kent, UK
    Camino(s) past & future:
    Camino Ingles or Portuguese (May 2018?)
    You just walked? ;)
     
    Flem and Annie Little like this.
  56. Jeff Crawley

    Jeff Crawley Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
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    Location:
    Kent, UK
    Camino(s) past & future:
    Camino Ingles or Portuguese (May 2018?)
    You put your left foot forward.
    Good.
    Now try the right one.
    Excellent.
    Now give me your credit card number.
    Well done.
    And the PIN code?
    You've done fantastically well, there's nothing more I can teach you!
     
  57. LesR

    LesR New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
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    Camino(s) past & future:
    (2017)
    It does sound more like a money-making scheme than a proposal to enhance people's experience of the Camino..

    For my part - am starting the Camino Frances 12 Sept SJPP and I certainly of expect to "update my reality map and create an action plan for the future" - the clearing of the mind, the distillation of the day's activities to putting one foot in front of the other, and the (optional) peace of walking by oneself leaves plenty of scope for the mind to cleanse itself of day-to-day detritus and focus on some inner matters... There are many posts here attesting to the personal renewal that the Camino may engender (OK - it doesn't happen to everyone)...

    But paying someone else to organise it all and inject their version of psychobabble into the equation?? May work for some but not for me....
     
  58. Bogong

    Bogong Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
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    Camino(s) past & future:
    First, March 2014

    Thanks so much for your first post, Joan.

    I've been very uneasy about this one. Healthy cynicsm is one thing but do I detect a whiff (perhaps stronger) of intolerance creeping in? Some people simply need to do it this way for the fellowship and security, who knows? A few years back a good friend of mine, after an 18 month stint in hospital did an emotional religious pilgrimage to Santiago - by bus.

    And the Camino has, after all, morphed into a significant commercial venture. The language, well... Perhaps it's an ESL (English as a second language) issue but in my working life the Public Service spent millions sending us to courses touting claims like this, but with no walk, no visit to historic sites, and a lousy lunch. Some were fun, some a bore, all totally useless from my perspective (lie flat on the floor close your eyes, and think of a peaceful beach scene, true, but some participants said it actually refreshed and remotivated them).

    As for the cost, it doesn't seem unreasonable for what similar operations charge. How much for a ten day cruise down the Rhine? A week or so back, one of the Travel supplements in a magazine highlighted a 9 day guided segment as part of a longer 1000k walk in Western Australia. $2750 per person twin share?

    But how about a stir? Time and again, I see recommendations on this site for particular boots, packs, walking poles etc, which work out at prices which to me are absolutely outrageous and way way way over the top for what they should be. And people don't seem to jib at that. As for using apps to book accommodation ahead???

    But please let's try to exercise tolerance, and thanks, Joan for highlighting this.

    De colores

    Bogong
     
    SabineP likes this.
  59. Charl

    Charl Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2014
    Messages:
    73
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    Location:
    Johannesburg South Africa
    Camino(s) past & future:
    Lourdes - Santiago April 2015, Via Francigena 2017
    I must concur with @Bogong. The guy isn't lying or misrepresenting, he's simply using a particular language that appeals to a particular type of person (2000+ likes on his FB page), and framing the Camino experience in a way that'll appeal to them. Nothing wrong with that. His price isn't out of whack either - I've seen many holistic workshop advertised at $5000 in exotic locations. Perhaps someone should invite the business owner to take part in this discussion and explain his product and counter the criticism. That'll only be fair. Everyone's clobbering the poor guy and he probably doesn't even know it.
     
    Bogong and SabineP like this.
  60. Pepin

    Pepin Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2014
    Messages:
    38
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    53
    Location:
    On the Camino.
    Camino(s) past & future:
    Francés.
    13.75€ Toll for every kilometre,..... Through next 120kms!
    An expensive highway, Hey?
    There is an old Spanish movie (Comedy) called ....Camino de Santiago... The movie shows the peculiar businesses established on and around the Camino!!
    A Spanish saying : without Daft, Smart wouldn't exist or survive!
    At the end of the day let people spend their money where and on what they may see convenient, no matter how rediculous it may sound to us.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017 at 12:57 AM
  61. formerly multipurpose

    formerly multipurpose Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2017
    Messages:
    50
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    69
    Camino(s) past & future:
    planning for spring 2018
    Learn how to be a yuppie from a lawyer for 1650 Euros? To each his own, but not for me, I prefer a voyage of self-discovery.
     

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