Napoleon or Valcarlos?

[Lucy Keenan]

I have walked the Northern route and plan to walk the CF at the end of April this year.
I have asthma and restricted lung capacity, I find going uphill slow (although I get there in the end) but am pretty quick on the flat.
Would it be advisable to give the Napoleon route a miss? If I did do it I was planning to break the walk and stay in orisson.

 

[Deleted member 76633]

You'd miss not doing the Napoleon but Express Bourricot in SJPP offer a taxi service to various points on the French side so you could start at Orrison which is one third of the way or to the Croix Thibault which is two thirds of the way with almost all the uphill part over.

 

[Lucy Keenan]

That is very helpful. Thank you.

 

[kayagee66]

The hardest part is the walk to Orrison. Luckily it isn't very long. So slow and steady would still get you there early (if you left in the morning) It's a good place to stop, if it's clear the views are as good as anything you will see between St Jean and Santiago. There is a nice terrace and you will meet people that you will probably meet again (maybe often).
The walk to Roncesvalles is of course uphill most of the way, but not as steep as the day before, and has flat sections. The direct route down to Roncesvalles is also steep and i would not recommend it if there is snow, rain or mud. Or if you are prone to knee ache. There is also a winding road at the top of the descent. You decide which to take A or B. I've done both. The direct is a little better i suppose, but the road has it's merits in that you are able to stride down, after a long climb up. It is not so easy to stride down the direct as it is often too steep.
I first walked from Orrison to Roncesvalles at the end of April. In snow sleet and rain. I was a little nervous but needn't have worried. There are people of all ages and fitness. And a lot of them will be walking from St Jean to Roncesvalles in one go. It's nice to know that you've done the hard section the day before.
I've also done St Jean to Roncesvalles in one go. It is also excellent.

 

[Lucy Keenan]

Thank you. Don't like the idea of snow, wet and rain! And at end of April!

 

[JanelMcB]

I have walked the Northern route and plan to walk the CF at the end of April this year.
I have asthma and restricted lung capacity, I find going uphill slow (although I get there in the end) but am pretty quick on the flat.
Would it be advisable to give the Napoleon route a miss? If I did do it I was planning to break the walk and stay in orisson.

If you wish to stay at Orisson auberge, you'll need to make a reservation well in advance; I've been told 3 months. I am walking CF in September and have already made my reservation.

 

[kayagee66]

Thank you. Don't like the idea of snow, wet and rain! And at end of April!

Don't worry it's not so bad. Think of it as character building. I still loved it, and consider it one of the best days i had.
The day before was hot and sunny, not a cloud in the sky, so you can't really tell quite what to expect.

 

[Lucy Keenan]

Great tip.
Ill get on to them.
Thanks.

 

[kayagee66]

Search Orrison on this forum. It is well known for not replying very quickly. It used to be that you needed a Paypal account to pay. It may have changed in the last 2 years.
I'd recommend booking early, just to be sure. 8 months early seems a little extreme.
What i'm told happens often is because Orrison is so close to St Jean and can be reached in no time, people get there so early and decide not to stay but keep walking, not bothering with a bed they've already paid for. So there are often beds going on the day.

 

[Lucy Keenan]

I was very lucky when I walked northern route. Only had 2 days of rain in a month but it was August.

Don't worry it's not so bad. Think of it as character building. I still loved it, and consider it one of the best days i had.
The day before was hot and sunny, not a cloud in the sky, so you can't really tell quite what to expect.

 

[kayagee66]

I was very lucky when I walked northern route. Only had 2 days of rain in a month but it was August.

I only had 3 days rain in 5 1/2 weeks. End of April to early June.

 

[Marbe2]

In the end no one can really advise you as to which route to take given your medical concerns. We can offer very helpful suggestions, as many have done, and, we can tell you of our or others experiences. I have unfortunately seen fit pilgrims with terrible blisters after having completed the route to Roncevalles. How fast one goes is not really important. Whether you cover the distance on this particular day is an important consideration? What kind of condition will you be in after finishing this first section? Your training and preparation should help you to answer many of these questions. Sending you pack ahead on this particular section would help to put less stress on your body and respiratory system. Personal feedback is important ! Have a wonderful Camino!

 

[naplesdon]

The weather in the Pyrenees is totally unpredictable. Several years ago we had the worst snowfall in history during the month of May. I walked last year from Orisson early in June in a dense frozen fog only to be greeted by glorious sunshine in Spain after I reached the top of the mountain.
As far as asthma is concerned, I am a sufferer but the exercise does me well when I am walking.
Someone else mentioned the path to Orisson from SJPdP is probably the worse part of the climb; that is true, but if you take your time and don't push it, there should be no problem. After Orisson it pretty much a steady climb and not overly taxing.
On my first Camino I was ready to give up on the climb out of SJPdP, it is a killer. A couple of years later I walked with a friend who wanted to spend a night at Orisson, he was a daily jogger but he gave up at the point where you choose between the road and the muddy short cut straight up the hill.
The first several days are a real test of your endurance especially the descent to Zubiri.
As far as commenting on the Valcarlos is concerned, I have only done it in my car. It is steep and there are place where you would share the road with cars/trucks.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I have only walked the Valcarlos valley route. A GPS track shows that there are lots of little ups and downs on it that I don't really remember. The Napoleon Route is along a ridge and it's high point is higher than the Valcarlos high point but there are not so many ups and downs. Using hiking time estimation tools the Valcarlos route doesn't save you much in my estimation.

 

[Kanga]

The Valcarlos route does not go quite as high as the Napoleon, but it is still a very steep climb from Valcarlos to Roncesvalles. The advantage is that you can cut the route from SJPDP into two almost equal stages by staying overnight in Valcarlos, and then tackling the difficult climb the next day.

I have walked both routes and now (marginally) prefer the Valcarlos. I love the walk between SJPDP and Valcarlos through beautiful Basque farmland, enjoy Arneguy - previously the haunt of smugglers and still visited by the French to buy cheap Spanish products and "duty free". Valcarlos is a pretty Spanish village and has a good albergue and a good restaurant. Then a beautiful if taxing walk up through the beech forest (there is a forest path that intersects with the road) to Roncesvalles.

For someone with a medical problem who might need help, the advantage of the Napoleon route is that you will almost certainly have plenty of company. The Valcarlos route is solitary. The disadvantage of the Napoleon is that part of the route is not accessible by car, should you need transport. But that part of the route is after Orisson, and the walk from SJPDP to Orisson will tell you if you will make it.

 

[JanelMcB]

Search Orrison on this forum. It is well known for not replying very quickly. It used to be that you needed a Paypal account to pay. It may have changed in the last 2 years.
I'd recommend booking early, just to be sure. 8 months early seems a little extreme.
What i'm told happens often is because Orrison is so close to St Jean and can be reached in no time, people get there so early and decide not to stay but keep walking, not bothering with a bed they've already paid for. So there are often beds going on the day.

I wrote to the Orisson auberge on January 17, 2018 at this address: refuge.orisson@wanadoo.fr. Received a reply on the 19th. Paid for reservation using PayPal.

 

[Kurt5280]

I would consider taking Express Bourricot transport uphill to the last stop on the French side of the boarder at Croix Thibault...the take the path uphill cross the boarder into Spain...but then for the downhill take the road to the right into Roncevaux...the two maps below will help you on your Camino.

 

[DebR]

I have walked the Northern route and plan to walk the CF at the end of April this year.
I have asthma and restricted lung capacity, I find going uphill slow (although I get there in the end) but am pretty quick on the flat.
Would it be advisable to give the Napoleon route a miss? If I did do it I was planning to break the walk and stay in orisson.

I’ve walked the Napoleon twice (stopping at Orisson both times) and Valcarlos once (all the way from SJPP to Burguete in a single day). I may be crazy but, for me, Valcarlos was *way* harder. Steep, relentless, and seemingly endless. I cried in the forest. And I sent my pack ahead too; whereas both times over the Napoleon I carried it.
My suggestion - and it’s entirely based on personal (subjective) experience: Napoleon, with an overnight stop at Orisson. It breaks the journey, shortens the first two days, and helps create a peer group. And nothing beats a beer on the deck at Orisson at the end of that first day.

 

[tpmchugh]

Thank you. Don't like the idea of snow, wet and rain! And at end of April!

You wont know until you get there. I walked mid April 2015 and the weather was fine but a bit windy. There were a couple of patches on the Spanish side where some snow was still lying but as it was thawing, it was a bit muddy. Good boots however will make walking in mud a lot easier. On the whole, it was mostly dry. I took the road route down to Roncesvalles but those who took the steep forest route said it was fine. I will be back early April this year but Orisson are not taking reservations for that early so may go for ValCarlos myself. I am told it is a very scenic route in its own right

 

[HedaP]

Have walked both routes and if doing it again would probably choose the Valcarlos route. The gradient was indeed steeper but as @Kanga said it is possible to stop overnight in Valcarlos which is a 12 km walk from SJPdP and then a further 12 kms the next day to Roncesvalles.
I started walking from Valcarlos reasonably early and took it slowly and steadily. It is difficult but with only 12 kms to do there is plenty of time to stop and smell the flowers, take a photo, admire the view, sit on a nearby log, have a picnic, or whatever else you might do while getting your breath back.
Even with lots of breaks I still got to Roncesvalles about 2 pm.
This is my favourite elevation map showing both routes to same scale. It comes courtesy of @sillydoll

 

[Rhysmike]

I have walked the Northern route and plan to walk the CF at the end of April this year.
I have asthma and restricted lung capacity, I find going uphill slow (although I get there in the end) but am pretty quick on the flat.
Would it be advisable to give the Napoleon route a miss? If I did do it I was planning to break the walk and stay in orisson.

I’ve walked both ways from St Jean. If you have breathing problems why not start from Roncesvalles? Many Spanish people do.

 

[Selina Ward]

Search Orrison on this forum. It is well known for not replying very quickly. It used to be that you needed a Paypal account to pay. It may have changed in the last 2 years.
I'd recommend booking early, just to be sure. 8 months early seems a little extreme.
What i'm told happens often is because Orrison is so close to St Jean and can be reached in no time, people get there so early and decide not to stay but keep walking, not bothering with a bed they've already paid for. So there are often beds going on the day.

you dont need a paypal account now. tbey asked me to pay half upfront via paypal but could use my credit card. it took quite a few weeks to get a reply but others said they got replies quickly. i leave 28 April so may see you Lucy.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

If you take the Route Napoleon, if you take a taxi to Croix Thibault, the walk is 10 km to Roncesvalles, one place to top up water and a decision at Loepeder, overlooking Roncesvalles. DO NOT take the left path. It is posted as the way to go to Roncesvalles, about 3 km but it is extremely steep for about 2/3 of it. Instead, read the paperwork provided when picking up your Credenciel. It has photos decribing this. Take the path to the RIGHT, a bit longer but nowhere near as steep.

This is where the shins get stressed. The climb the day before will attack the calves and quads of your legs. A tube of Voltaren is in order at the end of each day.

 

[Lucy Keenan]

you dont need a paypal account now. tbey asked me to pay half upfront via paypal but could use my credit card. it took quite a few weeks to get a reply but others said they got replies quickly. i leave 28 April so may see you Lucy.

I have booked it now. Yup may well see you Selina.

 

[Lucy Keenan]

I’ve walked both ways from St Jean. If you have breathing problems why not start from Roncesvalles? Many Spanish people do.

I am going to take it slowly, stop in Orisson half way and see how I get on.

 

[Lucy Keenan]

I’ve walked the Napoleon twice (stopping at Orisson both times) and Valcarlos once (all the way from SJPP to Burguete in a single day). I may be crazy but, for me, Valcarlos was *way* harder. Steep, relentless, and seemingly endless. I cried in the forest. And I sent my pack ahead too; whereas both times over the Napoleon I carried it.
My suggestion - and it’s entirely based on personal (subjective) experience: Napoleon, with an overnight stop at Orisson. It breaks the journey, shortens the first two days, and helps create a peer group. And nothing beats a beer on the deck at Orisson at the end of that first day.

Yup. That's what i am going to do. Fingers crossed. Thanks.

 

[rector]

I think that you have made a good choice, We have walked both and to be honest, we found the route de Napoleon an easier option. If you have John Brierly's guide and look at the elevations side by side you see that on the Valcarlos route you climb and then loose your elevation gained several times and the real climb is at the end of the day when you are tired, whereas the Route de Napoleon you have a short sharp climb out of St Jean followed by a few kms of gentle cimb and 3 kms of quite steep climb after that it is just an average camino day. We did the Napoleon route almost 2hrs quicker. I have heart issues and in mid May I am going straight over (or at least I hope to) Just enjoy it that is the single most important part of the journey.

 

[Lucy Keenan]

Thank you my friend and Buen Camino for May.

 

[Richard A Stead]

I have walked the Northern route and plan to walk the CF at the end of April this year.
I have asthma and restricted lung capacity, I find going uphill slow (although I get there in the end) but am pretty quick on the flat.
Would it be advisable to give the Napoleon route a miss? If I did do it I was planning to break the walk and stay in orisson.

I’ve done both. The so called low route is still tough and my advice would be to walk to Orisson on the first day taking your time . It’s tough but short and there is a coffee stop on the way. From Orisson get a taxi back to SJPP and then after a good nights sleep get the taxi back up and complete the crossing.

 

[jpflavin1]

I have walked the Northern route and plan to walk the CF at the end of April this year.
I have asthma and restricted lung capacity, I find going uphill slow (although I get there in the end) but am pretty quick on the flat.
Would it be advisable to give the Napoleon route a miss? If I did do it I was planning to break the walk and stay in orisson.

Lucy:

I have walked both routes. The Napoleon is by far tougher in the beginning with the section between SJPdP to Orisson being the steepest section, imo. That said, the second half of the Valcarlos route is no picnic. The Valcarlos route is far less steep in the beginning. It also offers a better opportunity to purchase food and other items you might have forgotten as you go by a grocery store and Valcarlos is a small village about 11 km from SJPdP. It also breaks the first day into two more balanced days if you plan to stop. The Valcarlos route also provides an early opportunity to walk beyond Roncesvalles and get out of the mainstream of walkers. Last year I walked SJPdP to Espinal the first day. You could also walk SJPdP to Valcarlos (11 km), Valcarlos to Espinal 2nd day (22 km's) or further.

Both routes are challenging.

Napoleon - steep start and only places to stay, if breaking up first day, Honto or Orisson (8 km's).

Valcarlos - a less steep start, if breaking up first day, more options on places to stay in Valcarlos (11 km's). There are also food an supply options prior to Valcarlos.

There is no right or wrong path here. Just like, imo, there is no right or wrong starting point. You could also start in Roncesvalles, Pamplona, Irun or any other city.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[Thornley]

I have walked the Northern route and plan to walk the CF at the end of April this year.
I have asthma and restricted lung capacity, I find going uphill slow (although I get there in the end) but am pretty quick on the flat.
Would it be advisable to give the Napoleon route a miss? If I did do it I was planning to break the walk and stay in orisson.

Hi Lucy,
We have ventured to Roncesvalles on 5 occasions ,

1/ We were washed out in May 07 thus Valcarlos
2/ After walking from Le Puy , 800km prior , we sailed over the Napoleon [ I'm not sure why we call it this as he was never there ] but it was late July .
3/ All other times we have always gone via ***Valcarlos as we we find the village atmosphere , good accommodation and restaurants and the opportunity to commence from Le Puy or in our case Navarrenx or St Palais [ 3 days prior on the GR65] ****at a time of our choosing and stay in Burguette.
Valcarlos is a beautiful walk however if there was "heavy" rain that week the forrest floor before climbing to Roncesvalles will be more difficult than over the top , thus all use the road until the water fountain.
All this is explained in STJPP prior to you commencing.
Be guided by the office when you arrive.

Alternatively
Enjoy StJPP , arrange a taxi to pick you up at Orrison or further up and return you for a good nights sleep
Next morning get them to return you and continue at your leisure as down hill to many is twice as hard as up.
All this is not expensive mate as you still have a month to go ,
We have asked 100's back home which tapas/pintox street they enjoyed the most and got a blank look so please take your time and enjoy this memorable venture which you will remember all your life.

 

[Thornley]

Yup. That's what i am going to do. Fingers crossed. Thanks.

How about you decide when you see the weather report Lucy.
Only a few weeks prior to you leaving the pass is closed .The bad weather can sometimes continue.

 

[John H.]

Don't like the idea of snow, wet and rain! And at end of April!

Hi Lucy: I left SJPdP on April 14/17 at 7am and arrived over the top and into Roncesvalles at about 2:30pm. I was pushing myself a bit but I am no athlete. It was a beautiful sunny day and 22 degrees c. Just depends on the year.

Don't worry about the weather in April. Just go with whatever you are given. If the weather is too bad to go over the mountain, just take the valley route. It is also very nice. You will still have 2 or three other mountains to climb later in your walk, although I thought that first day was the most scenic day of the entire month.

If you plan to stop in Orrison for your first night, I would not leave SJPdP too early in the morning. I think it is only about 8-10 kms. You can be there in 3-4 hours no problem even with a few rests along the way. I arrived in Orrison in about 2.5 hours so I stopped for a break, bought a sandwich to eat later in the day and then carried on. Have a great trip! JH

 

[4blossom]

Search Orrison on this forum. It is well known for not replying very quickly. It used to be that you needed a Paypal account to pay. It may have changed in the last 2 years.
I'd recommend booking early, just to be sure. 8 months early seems a little extreme.
What i'm told happens often is because Orrison is so close to St Jean and can be reached in no time, people get there so early and decide not to stay but keep walking, not bothering with a bed they've already paid for. So there are often beds going on the day.

I have just booked for the third week in April. They answered very quickly, the next day in fact. I was very surprised after reading comments here, it must be the right time of year. all the best with your decision.

 

[4blossom]

I have just booked for the third week in April. They answered very quickly, the next day in fact. I was very surprised after reading comments here, it must be the right time of year. all the best with your decision.

 

[Thornley]

They answered very quickly, the next day in fact. I was very surprised after reading comments here, it must be the right time of year.

Maybe more and more pilgrims are taking the Valcarlos route in this early month ?????????

 

[4blossom]

Maybe more and more pilgrims are taking the Valcarlos route in this early month ?????????

Maybe. However I was glad for the fast reply.

 

[Buz Radican]

Two days ago I sent a request for 2 May via email. They responded the next day. Paid with PayPal. This will be my first time on the Napoleon route. Took Valcarlos before. Valcarlos is a very nice little town with great facilities. Hope I do not regret my decision...or that the weather is too bad on the Napoleon route.