Nearly ended it all!

[CaminoDebrita]

Hey everyone! nice to get inhere and just do a little post. I apologize for absence: walked across Scotland (south to north, on the W. Highland Way), got back to care for best friend on hospice, she died, then did her memorial. Did I mention that one day after that, my first grandson was born? And I got a HORRIBLE virus, which is my subject here.

Last year, I began walking Camino Frances on 1 October 2015. After a night in Zubiri with about six very ill French women, who insisted on a closed window, I got horribly ill.

I had a tight chest, a fever, a cough, and felt really horrible. As I stumbled into Pamplona, it occurred to me that my walk was probably over. Prone to pneumonia and with asthma, I was in trouble deep.

I immediately went to a pharmacia where they recommended what I consider to be a gift to the flu and pulmonary crud: Fluimicil.

Fluimicil is a round fizzy tab to put in water. It does not taste great, but it is a miracle worker. I felt better, took it slow for a few days, and had a bedside visit from a friend-- @Albertagirl . She brought me dark chocolate, another huge gift as I was too ill to leave my bed at that point. I was drinking a lot of water, and with my rotund frame (that was to change!), I was nourished adequately.

For two weeks, I've been very ill here in the USA. My husband came down with it too, and on day 13 of this virus, guess what I just found! Four tablets of that miracle helper, Fluimicil.

What I wouldn't give to have about a dozen of those! If anyone coming back from Spain can bring me some, I will send a check with a tip.

Thanks, and Buen Camino.

 

[SYates]

The active ingredient in Fluimicil is Acetylcysteine see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcysteine

It should be available worldwide if you ask for Acetylcysteine If not, I can send you some ;-)

Buen Camino and Speedy Recovery, SY

 

[Albertagirl]

Hey everyone! nice to get inhere and just do a little post. I apologize for absence: walked across Scotland (south to north, on the W. Highland Way), got back to care for best friend on hospice, she died, then did her memorial. Did I mention that one day after that, my first grandson was born? And I got a HORRIBLE virus, which is my subject here.

Last year, I began walking Camino Frances on 1 October 2015. After a night in Zubiri with about six very ill French women, who insisted on a closed window, I got horribly ill.

I had a tight chest, a fever, a cough, and felt really horrible. As I stumbled into Pamplona, it occurred to me that my walk was probably over. Prone to pneumonia and with asthma, I was in trouble deep.

I immediately went to a pharmacia where they recommended what I consider to be a gift to the flu and pulmonary crud: Fluimicil.

Fluimicil is a round fizzy tab to put in water. It does not taste great, but it is a miracle worker. I felt better, took it slow for a few days, and had a bedside visit from a friend-- @Albertagirl . She brought me dark chocolate, another huge gift as I was too ill to leave my bed at that point. I was drinking a lot of water, and with my rotund frame (that was to change!), I was nourished adequately.

For two weeks, I've been very ill here in the USA. My husband came down with it too, and on day 13 of this virus, guess what I just found! Four tablets of that miracle helper, Fluimicil.

What I wouldn't give to have about a dozen of those! If anyone coming back from Spain can bring me some, I will send a check with a tip.

Thanks, and Buen Camino.

@CaminoDebrita
I am returning to Canada next week and would get you some Fluimicil, if I could think how to get it across the border to you (without getting both of us arrested). For that matter, I may get some for myself. I got sick on my way home from Santiago last November, and was ill with bronchitis for three months. It is raining heavily here in Castaneda and I hope not to have to walk my last two days to Santiago in a downpour. At least, a cold would give me an excuse to ask for Fluimicil. Get well soon, and I shall do my best to stay healthy. Blessings.
Mary Louise
PS @SYates' idea about asking for the drug by its chemical name makes sense to me, although I may still bring some home from Spain for myself. Good luck in getting what you need.

 

[Barbara]

It's freely available in France, non prescription. Anyone needs some pm me and we can sort it, but it would surprise me if you can't get it pretty well anywhere,

 

[C clearly]

Wow, Deb, what a dramatic thread title! But I understand the urgency to get you healthy for baby care! Some googling led me to this:
"The FDA lists Fluimicil as containing Acetylcysteine, in the U.S. it is actually considered a supplement and is available over the counter in most vitamin and nutrition stores. However, the brand name Fluimicil is not available here, so you'd need to look for an effervescent formulation of Acetylcysteine here."

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Wow, Deb, what a dramatic thread title! But I understand the urgency to get you healthy for baby care! Some googling led me to this:
"The FDA lists Fluimicil as containing Acetylcysteine, in the U.S. it is actually considered a supplement and is available over the counter in most vitamin and nutrition stores. However, the brand name Fluimicil is not available here, so you'd need to look for an effervescent formulation of Acetylcysteine here."

I am going to be heading to a vitamin and nutrition center then! Especially since I just received this note from my doctor:

I'm sorry, I looked it up and this is not available in the US. I am unable to prescribe it. The active ingredient is N acetylcysteine - but that is only available in the US for Tylenol overdose treatment. It is not something I can prescribe to you.

Unfortunately, our medical system really has us hog-tied here in the USA, to the degree that I have found myself on some left-over penicillin for the last week---got tired of begging for what I suspected I needed.

If I can't find it here in a supplement store, I will be back on here begging for someone to send me some.

Love to all---
DGH

 

[SYates]

The WHO considers it a basic medicament that should be available in all countries. By all means, if you can't find it in the US - come back to us and we shower you in it! One of that parcels will make it through customs!

Also @t2andreo will be in Spain for the Camino Clean-Up end of November/beginning of December and I am sure he is happy to bring some back to Spain!

(before somebody now freaks out - this is an over the counter medicine with very little mild and none at all serious possible side effects - not a dangerous drug deal ;-)

Buen Camino, SY

 

[CaminoDebrita]

The WHO considers it a basic medicament that should be available in all countries. By all means, if you can't find it in the US - come back to us and we shower you in it! One of that parcels will make it through customs!

Also @t2andreo will be in Spain for the Camino Clean-Up end of November/beginning of December and I am sure he is happy to bring some back to Spain!

(before somebody now freaks out - this is an over the counter medicine with very little mild and none at all serious possible side effects - not a dangerous drug deal ;-)

Buen Camino, SY

It's so irritating to know that THIS is the medicine / supplement that works for me, and I can't get it....anyone returning to the USA from Spain, please pick some up for me. PM me for my address.

 

[SYates]

HA! Found the solution! As it is classified a supplement it could be on AMAZON!

Drum roll for the link please: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I4C6J6/?tag=casaivar02-20

Happy ordering and speedy recovery, SY

 

[CaminoDebrita]

HA! Found the solution! As it is classified a supplement it could be on AMAZON!

Drum roll for the link please: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I4C6J6/?tag=casaivar02-20

Happy ordering and speedy recovery, SY

And it's ordered.

I must admit that I sent a little note to the doc saying "thanks, I've ordered it myself"....

 

[Saint Mike II]

Again another interesting fountain of information/comments on the Forum. I did the "google" and found this (below) from wikipedia (BTW - not being a medico I cannot endorse or comment one way or the other about the information):

Acetylcysteine, also known as N-acetylcysteine or N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC), is a medication used to treat paracetamol (acetaminophen) overdose and to loosen thick mucus such as in cystic fibrosis or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.[3] It can be taken intravenously, by mouth, or inhaled as a mist.[3]


Common side effects include nausea and vomiting when taken by mouth. The skin may occasionally become red and itchy with either form. A non immune type of anaphylaxis may also occur. It appears to be safe in pregnancy. It works by increasing glutathione levels and binding with the toxic breakdown products of paracetamol.[3]


Acetylcysteine was initially patented in 1960 and licensed for use in 1968.[6] It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the medications needed in a basic health system.[7] It is available as a generic medication and is not very expensive.[8]

 

[SYates]

Whilst there are side effects reported in medical history (as there are for water, just google water allergy) as a trained health care professional I can tell you that Acetylcyteine is one of the safest (unless you are allergic to it!) medications around! Far less problematic than good old Aspirin. SY

@Smallest_Sparrow That might be a thread that interests you!

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Whilst there are side effects reported in medical history (as there are for water, just google water allergy) as a trained health care professional I can tell you that Acetylcyteine is one of the safest (unless you are allergic to it!) medications around! Far less problematic than good old Aspirin. SY

@Smallest_Sparrow That might be a thread that interests you!

I can tell you that for me, with my asthma and rather weak lungs, this medication saved my Camino in 2015. It works GREAT.

 

[VNwalking]

Wow, I hope you get well soon, Deb--and am very happy to know that you found a way to get what you need!
I wondered where you were and assumed it was just that life was full after getting home from Scotland.

(Strange, these regional differences in medication availability.
Here, it's not easy to get aspirin, which is considered by one and all (lay and docs alike) to be a 'dangerous medication'. But any antibiotics? Cipro, Penicillin, you name it...you can get them everywhere and people take them like candy. Trying to convince friends otherwise is like talking to a brick wall.)

 

[KinkyOne]

The active ingredient in Fluimicil is Acetylcysteine see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcysteine

It should be available worldwide if you ask for Acetylcysteine If not, I can send you some ;-)

Buen Camino and Speedy Recovery, SY

Sybil, you are becoming worldwide distributor of different Camino related stuff obviously. Watch out for those guys in long leather coats

 

[dougfitz]

Perhaps it's time to take a step back and ask whether what is being proposed is both ethical and legal.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Perhaps it's time to take a step back and ask whether what is being proposed is both ethical and legal.

No worries. I ordered it online through Amazon, right here in the US. Not necessary to have a prescription.

 

[Michael Caleigh]

Some comments surprised me as I always got this over the counter in Spain and in the UK and even in Germany where laws are strict we can buy this in the pharmacy without prescription.

 

[SYates]

Perhaps it's time to take a step back and ask whether what is being proposed is both ethical and legal.

Yes it is ;-) Buen Camino, SY

 

[dougfitz]

Some comments surprised me as I always got this over the counter in Spain and in the UK and even in Germany where laws are strict we can buy this in the pharmacy without prescription.

@Michael Caleigh, thank you for clarifying that. Nonetheless, it would appear that it has not been approved by the US FDA for the purpose @CaminoDebrita has stated she wants to use if for, and it is not clear to me that the product that she has chosen to purchase from Amazon is a substitute for the product she was seeking. And that is what gives me cause to ponder about the status of someone importing Fluimicil into the USA for someone else knowing that it was not approved for the use that the intended recipient had in mind in making the request. To be honest, it seems to me that this circumstance is not that far from being made a drug mule.

 

[SYates]

Ok, seriously now @dougfitz "drug mule"??? The most likely reason that Acetylcysteine (the active ingredient in Fluimicil) is not approved for the intended use by the US FDA is - money. That point gets a bit too close to the rule discussing politics, so I leave it at that. Let's just say that it wouldn't be a good ROI for one pharma company to go, and pay for, all the hoops to get it approved when then the competition could easily sell it also.

If you look through the links provided in this thread, you will see that the WHO has declared it a essential medicament, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcysteine

Also consider that it is approved as a supplement in the US and sold via Amazon and similar. Plus the OP has taken it before without problems. The one she ordered from Amazon (also a drug mule?) is perhaps not the "bubbly" variety that dissolves in water but the active ingredient is the same.

Buen Camino, SY

 

[dougfitz]

Ok, seriously now @dougfitz "drug mule"???

I suggest that it is worth thinking about the similarities rather than dismissing this in the cavalier fashion you have done here.

 

[SYates]

No I haven't dismissed it a cavalier fashion, I gave you an detailed answer. As this product is also classified as a supplement in the US the term drug mule doesn't apply in my opinion. Unless you use drug in the same sense as in drug store ;-) SY

 

[dougfitz]

No I haven't dismissed it a cavalier fashion, I gave you an detailed answer. As this product is also classified as a supplement in the US the term drug mule doesn't apply in my opinion. Unless you use drug in the same sense as in drug store ;-) SY

Fluimicil, the product that @CaminoDebrita was asking someone to obtain for her, is NOT available as a supplement in the US, and is not approved as a pharmaceutical for the the use she stated she wanted it for. It is clear that the products that are available with the same active ingredients are not complete functional replacements for Fluimicil inasmuch as they appear to use a different delivery mechanism. Further, I suspect that the supplements are all going to be sold on the basis that they is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

I accept that my view on this might be seen as rather jaundiced, but I do not see what was originally proposed as being as simple a proposition as it is being made out to be.

 

[Kathar1na]

Some comments surprised me as I always got this over the counter in Spain and in the UK and even in Germany where laws are strict we can buy this in the pharmacy without prescription.

I am also surprised - not so much about the comments here - but about the situation as such.

N-Acetylcysteine aka acetylcysteine seems to be a strange animal with several purposes. I know it as a mucolytic under the name ACC, available in pharmacies in the same form as Fluimucil, ie as effervescent tablets/oral solution. But it is also marketed in some European countries - similar to the US - as nutritional supplement, outside pharmacies, in capsule form (up to 600mg in both cases).

I, too, would swear that ACC/Fluimucil helps when you are all blocked up due to a respiratory tract infection but it seems that, scientifically, its medical effects are currently disputed. Maybe that's the reason why it is not available as a general mucolytic medication in the US. I wonder whether anyone here knows the real reason?

 

[Kathar1na]

PS: I, too, buy several types of prescription-free medication in one particular country because it is not available in the same form where I live. I dare to admit this in public because I transport my purchases through open borders with no restriction on food import for private purposes .

I used to think - still think - the reasons for availability/non-availability in various countries and in such cases have to do with marketing/trademark/competition law issues.

 

[Pathfinder075]

I know several people who cross from the states to Mexico to get things cheaper, and also to get things they cant get stateside. It happens. Having someone else bring you some back. I dont see it as any worse than the people who bring back some of those 600mg ibuprofen tabs that dont seem to be available in many countries (you certainly cant get hold of them in the UK AFAIK).

The point of big pharma holding things back in the states due to not being able to make enough money from them, is a well known fact. Also I have seen some pretty insane things a late, like epipens costing $300 each. I have a friend who has bad allergies and I know he orders his from India, because it works out at about $30 each from India, which is a hell of a lot less than what he pays in the US. That kind of markup defines to me the state of health care stateside. The duty of care is gone and has been replaced with a dollar sign, and patients are simply numbers on a database that can be milked like a slot machine.

So as far as im concerned, if you can get someone to bring you something back, then do it. Especially if you arent rich enough to be able to afford decent healthcare (which I suspect is the vast majority of Americans)

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I'm going to be even more unpopular than I usually am (hence my trying to stay out of this so far) but too many issues I want to address:
1. I agree that if a medication is not available in the US (or any country), it should not be smuggled/mailed/sent there. for the obvious reasons. luckily this is not the case for the item in questions. so happy day for the OP

2. It is as supplement at the 600mg dose because supplements do not have the same strict restrictions/testing required by the FDA to be allowed as a drug. This is not part of big Pharma, it is what protected Americans from the greater thalidomide tragedy experienced elsewhere, and in fact that tragedy helped strengthen and create new FDA regulations.

3. It is not no-harm possible safe to use product. At 600 mg, probably, but the studies are inconclusive (although generally pointing to it being safe at low doses, and useful at low doses)--but not all studies show usefulness, and none have been done head to head with other mucolytic OTC meds already here...I suspect placebo ('that wonderful prescription drug I got overseas, better than anything I've gotten here for pain" ...and it turns out to be Tylenol...I would always hate to break the news).

4. I assume the OP asked for a prescription. That is why her doctor answered as she did (actually, probably a nurse wrote the email after asking the overworked doctor with a waiting room of scheduled patients, plus five walk-in emergencies, as she was running from room to room). And at the prescription strength, it is not without risk. Rare, but a serious allergy-like reaction (not caused by allergies) can seriously harm/kill patients. True, rare, and mostly confined to older females with asthma, so not everyone. But at higher doses this is not a drug to be taken lightly. The doctor might not have known it could be bought as a supplement, I didn't. I'm sure she appreciated getting the info that it could be

5. Finally, please everyone, there should be no 'left over' antibiotics in your home. Taking an incomplete dose (not taking all prescribed, or taking "left over"), along with too many patients insisting on being given antibiotics when they are not needed, is a great contributor to the nightmare of drug-resistant bacteria.

6. I'm sorry if anyone is offended....going back to picture quest now...

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I have treated patients who's organs were seriously damaged due to taking more NSAIDs (such as ibuprofen) or Tylenol than recommended--when something is allowed to be sold as an over the counter (OTC) medication, it must be at a dose that the general public, following label directions, can't hurt themselves with since they were not cautioned in its use and side effects by someone who actually got into and through medical school. They teach more than just how to write illegibly there.
I have also treated people who have had serious complications from taking medication sold overseas, because there is a sucker born every day.
The health care system in the US is flawed--as it is everywhere. It is a sad fact that you cannot have high quality, high access, low cost health care. One leg of that must always give for the other two to exist. In the past, the US had high quality (I think many would say very high), very high access, mod cost to most, while to others it was high quality, mod to low access, low cost. Countries with socialized medicine high quality, low cost, but in my opinion waiting more than a month to get tests/MRIs/specialty care, even a psychologist visit? that is low access. There is no perfect solution.

 

[Kathar1na]

The health care system in the US is flawed--as it is everywhere

I, for one, appreciate your contributions very much. I also happen to agree with this particular statement above. So maybe there is no need to discuss this aspect any further because otherwise the thread may be closed soon.

And the initial issue, I think, was not about cost or big pharma but about availability of products that are on the market in countries of similar overall standards.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I actually want to say one more thing, about the 'wonder drugs' we find overseas--it's not just placebo, it's a willingness to use supplements as a first line of health care. I'm not a fan of supplements without telling one's physician, but with physician approval I'm a big fan. Once the physician is sure it won't interfere with prescription drugs, I think many supplements are great. I myself, when in Egypt, was introduced to zinc for a cold, long before zinc cold remedies appeared here. Science or not, probably placebo, but when I get a cold I stock up on grapefruit juice (vitamin C in my preferred form) and zinc. (This should not be seen as medical advice). But many US patients are conditioned to needing something that requires a prescription. If I tell them they don't need penicillin, and to instead go buy a zinc lozenge, they feel like they've wasted their time (and probably that I don't know anything about medicine).

 

[Kathar1na]

Since the original question concerned something to take when you have a cold or flu, I give you Lemsip. Hugely popular in the UK and maybe in other English speaking countries. It was totally unknown to me before I visited the UK for the first time. I think it is still not available in many other countries, not even under another name, and to this day I remain suspicious of taking something that contains paracetamol if I just have a cold (without a raging headache) and I prefer to cure myself with the flu & cold remedies I'd purchased elsewhere and brought with me.

As to Ibuprofen: Before I started reading this forum I thought that you had to be seriously ill before a doctor would prescribe it for you. And if you hurt after a day's walking you would either continue or rest the next day, no other option. I still live by that rule.

 

[William Marques]

I think the OP has solved her problem so I am closing this thread as it is now a discussion of health systems and the like and could be considered political.