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COVID New start dates?

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I was to start my Camino on April 19th. When I cancelled it on March 20th I was hopeful to go sometime in the fall 2020, but I now think it very unlikely. I would hope next for spring 2021, but there is definately uncertainty; it seems a long way off.
 

Vacajoe

Traded in my work boots for hiking ones
Camino(s) past & future
2019 Biarritz-Pamplona-Lourdes
2018 Aragon/Frances/Finis
2018 Operation Sabre
2018 Marin Ramble
While it’s impossible to know when anything akin to “normal” will return, my canceled April 2020 walk won’t happen again until at least April 2022. This Fall seems way too ambitious given the unknown and 2021 sounded overcrowded as a Jubilee year even before the 2020 pilgrims rescheduled their postponed trips a year.
 

AJGuillaume

Pèlerin du monde
Camino(s) past & future
Via Gebennensis (2018)
Via Podiensis (2018)
Voie Nive Bidassoa (2018)
Camino Del Norte (2018)
We were flying out on 13 April 2020, from Australia with Qantas and then Finnair via Singapore and Helsinki.
Finnair cancelled the outbound flights, and rebooked us on the earliest date available, which is 3 July 2020.
We would love this to be a reality, but as they say, one can live in hope...
We're taking advantage of our confinement to plan 2021.
 

ginniek

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
frances 2017
It's too soon to declare a trend. But looking at the daily increases for Spain on the Johns Hopkins map (previously recommended by others on this forum) it is possible that plateauing may be beginning. If that is the case, maybe I will get to go in the early fall, after all, to do a section of the Frances. About a year ago I was trying to figure out what I could do to help Puerto Rico after the hurricanes, and a number of sources said the best thing I could do was go and spend tourist dollars. So I did. If businesses along the Camino, picking up where I stopped in 2019 in Logrono, are opening they will appreciate all the business they can get. Since I would stay in hotels and eat in bars and restaurants, I could do at least a little bit of good.
 

Walkerooni

Member
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPdP to Santiago (June-ish 2018)
Was meant to start mid-May for CN/CF/CMuxia combo. No telling when it may be possible. I expect international travel will change dramatically. Probably won’t be able to travel until a workable vaccine in place, and proof of having received it.
 

David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
I doubt we will be going soon, or even this year really .....
I have noticed that when our (UK) ministers and scientists, at the daily live 5pm televised coronavirus briefing, speak of this they are now using the term "this first wave" as scientists believe that there will be a second wave of coronavirus later in the year, autumn.

Our Gov is planning to ease restrictions when they can - we had 1,000 deaths yesterday so it will be a while - but the plan for easing of restrictions, to open shops and businesses and to get the country running again, is to keep some restrictions, including social distancing, and that will stay in force until there is a vaccine, sometime in the middle of 2021 if all goes well. That is made more difficult as Covid-19 has already mutated into three strains (A, B, and C), all deadly, and there may be more mutations ahead.

If Spain does the same, removes lockdown but keeps certain restrictions such as social distancing - decisions being made on scientific evidence, not politics - then I cannot see how a refugio could work - where the social distancing? - so I now think that the Camino may be closed until there is a vaccine and it has been globally distributed :(
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF July 2018
VDLP April 2019
I’ve read some encouraging articles from mainly American based news outlets teporting with that Portugal have so far been able to control the pandemic quite well. It seems that with speedy measures from government and possibly even more importantly, the majority of citizens seemingly acting proactively and sensibly and chose to begin self isolating and limiting movement without waiting for the ‘official’ word. Optimism for a few days of pilgrimage in the land of the pastel de nata later this calendar year does give some light relief during an otherwise blurred outlook. But I, just as all the rest of us, do not have that magical crystal ball and ultimately rely on hope and positivity. 🙏
 

David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
True but hope and positivity does not actually alter external reality, it only makes one feel a little happier, therefore it can not be relied upon to improve the plague situation in any way at all. We are using science for that.
 

Molly Cassidy

Travelling light
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to start the Camino Frances from St Jean at the end of May (2020).
I am simply not able to plan that far ahead. I'm a freelance contract worker so the right combination of time and money is difficult to predict. I booked my Camino this year to start in May after securing a contract from 1st February to 16th May. Who knows what I'll be doing this time next year.
 

GuyA

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobi 13, Gebennensis 13, Le Puy 13, Frances 14, Finisterre 14, Kumano Kodo 15, Portuguese 18
Was planning May 2020...then hoping Fall 2020 however it is clear to me that this will not be possible for me. 2021 was already going to be super busy so now who knows. So spring 2022 is most likely...good way to celebrate turning 65. It will be there in the blink of an eye...am looking forward to it!
Guy
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF 03,04
88 Temples16
Port. 17
LePuy, Norte, Prim 18
Ingles 18
Jakobova, Arles, Aragon,Baztan 19
. But I, just as all the rest of us, do not have that magical crystal ball and ultimately rely on hope and positivity. 🙏
I think believing i will walk a camino towards Saint James again without the risk of being a walking incubator for the Virus one day qualifies as Hope and Positivity.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF 03,04
88 Temples16
Port. 17
LePuy, Norte, Prim 18
Ingles 18
Jakobova, Arles, Aragon,Baztan 19
I was supposed to Start from Madrid on Tuesday, one of the 3 Caminos planned for this year. At this point i remain hopeful and positive to walk again in Europe in 2022 or 23
 
Camino(s) past & future
2002, Toulouse/Aragon 2005, Cami S Jaume/Aragon 2007/9, Mont Saint Michel/Norte/Vadiniense 2011, Norte/Primitivo 2013, Norte/Primitivo 2014. Norte 2015, Cami S Jaume/Castellano-Aragonese 2016
I am just assuming that this year is not going to be a realistic possibility for me, partly because much of my autumn is already scheduled, but partly because I cannot predict when Spain will be open for travellers again. Thinking of a Camino in the next few months, to my mind, is not that realistic in its optimism. While I would not normally view a Jacobean holy year as a possibility, my plans are to walk the Levante out of Valencia to Toledo or Avila, and that stretch is unlikely to be overoccupied with crowds. By Christmas, much will be clearer, and I can then do some planning.

Until then, it is a matter of keeping in shape (in my case, a challenge as I've just finished 2 weeks in the sloth life of quarantine after having brought my mother back from Florida) and keeping a sympathetic eye on how things are going in Spain.
 

dreaminggypsy

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
April/May 2020
We were to start our first day from Porto--tomorrow--taking our time--ending up in Fisterra for three days-May, 2, 3, 4. Then, flying to Mallorca. Next year, hopefully. We were making the walk to celebrate my 60th and life, itself..heck I am happy to celebrate each day--so, 61 sounds like a good birthday to be there, too.
 

biarritzdon

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF11, CF12, CP13, CF14, CA15, S.Anton15, CF&CI15
Ditch Pig16, CF&CP17, CdN18, CM18, CF18, LePuy19
I decided to cancel my annual walk this year when the virus was just emerging because I was very concerned that sharing space in albergues would be like walking into an incubator. This would have been my 10th year. So now I feel like giving the answer Tom got in the movie when he asked the clerk at La Posada if she had ever walked the Camino. I will be 75 in the Holy Year and am very concerned about the size of the crowds next year, so waiting until 2022 will be a very difficult decision for me to make. I have so many wonderful memories, so maybe that is what I get to keep with me for the rest of my life.
 

PK Smit

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
(015)Irun to Santiago
(017)Lisboa to S
2018Caminha to Santiago
(2018) Camino English Ferrol Santiago
We were to start in Madrid on the 16th and walked to Ponferada, deviate on the Invierno to Santiago. Well everything had to be cancelled, or rather postponed to a later date, which is still unclear at this moment in time as we do not know what the future holds. According to what I read in the Spanish newspapers, the changes for the Spanish borders to open for non essential travel is still a long way in the future. 2021 would be very crowded and then I will turn 70 which makes travel insurance quite difficult, so I am quite unsure whether I would see the Camino again.
 

Jim

Member
Camino(s) past & future
2006- Camino Portuguese
2008- Camino Frances
2009- Sanabres extension of the VDLP
2010- Camino Frances
2011- Camino Potuguese
2014- Camino Frances
2017- Camino Finisterre
I had an April 15th departure date, the airlines rebooked me for departure on September 26th. Forced to accept that because a refund was not offered by the airlines at the time I canceled, only a Rebooking within so many months time. I have the return flight on October 30th, but have not rebooked bus/train nor lodgings. Intend to see if even possible to go. As someone else said, European entry points might require vaccine certificates, but not known if there will even be a vaccine by then. So playing it by ear. There might not be any flights out yet in the fall also, so would have to delay again until sometime in the first half of 2021. Just a situation of wait and see. I’m not at all minding this. I will consider safety and what’s available when the time comes.
 

Lyndale

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances Aug(2013), Portuguese (2018) Le Puy (2019)
I was to start my Camino on April 19th. When I cancelled it on March 20th I was hopeful to go sometime in the fall 2020, but I now think it very unlikely. I would hope next for spring 2021, but there is definately uncertainty; it seems a long way off.
 

Thornley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances x 2 , Norte x 2 , Le Puy x 3 , Portuguese x 2,
Mont St Michel , Primitivo .
We're taking advantage of our confinement to plan 2021.
Andrew , you are in exquisite company .......enjoy .
Lygon St a 'Ghost Town' thus spending plenty of time @ Mt M which is beautiful this time of the year.
All open gardens and viewing of the trees has been cancelled ..............peace .
Not too many Easter Eggs young man :)
 

Thornley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances x 2 , Norte x 2 , Le Puy x 3 , Portuguese x 2,
Mont St Michel , Primitivo .
I will turn 70 which makes travel insurance quite difficult, so I am quite unsure whether I would see the Camino again.
Keep positive ........ you will be there and maybe insurance will not be required if you use the bank card insurance and booking.com .........you can always cancel the accommodation .....and by then you will be able to afford those lovely rooms .
Glad i saw you commencing the Portuguese in Caminha , a village we love.
 

mmmmartin

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santander-SdC bici '14
Plata bici '17
1/2 Plata bici '18
Frances a pie '18
(Porto a pie '19)
I doubt we will be going soon, or even this year really .....
I have noticed that when our (UK) ministers and scientists, at the daily live 5pm televised coronavirus briefing, speak of this they are now using the term "this first wave" as scientists believe that there will be a second wave of coronavirus later in the year, autumn.

Our Gov is planning to ease restrictions when they can - we had 1,000 deaths yesterday so it will be a while - but the plan for easing of restrictions, to open shops and businesses and to get the country running again, is to keep some restrictions, including social distancing, and that will stay in force until there is a vaccine, sometime in the middle of 2021 if all goes well. That is made more difficult as Covid-19 has already mutated into three strains (A, B, and C), all deadly, and there may be more mutations ahead.

If Spain does the same, removes lockdown but keeps certain restrictions such as social distancing - decisions being made on scientific evidence, not politics - then I cannot see how a refugio could work - where the social distancing? - so I now think that the Camino may be closed until there is a vaccine and it has been globally distributed :(
This is a very considered and sensible reply, and reflects my thinking.
 

Bob from L.A. !

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francis 2012, 2014, 2016. Camino Norte 2018. Many more to come in my future God willing !
Still keeping the original late September thru late October plans in place. I will evaluate the need to cancel plans during the first week of September.
I am doing the exact same for the exact same time periods. Praying............
 

tpmchugh

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2013)
Camino Frances (2015)
Camino Frances (2016)
Camino Frances (2018}
Curious as to all of us pilgrims that were going to start March/April? Are you thinking fall of 2020 or spring of 2021?
Quite frankly, at this time, I am not thinking that far in advance. Getting through the next few weeks is all that concerns me. I dont even want to think about it in case I have to change again. If and when I decide to go back it will be think about it one day and fly out the next, no advance planning whatsoever. But then flying out of Ireland does not need a lot of planning anyway
 

Kiwi girl

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances September 2015
Frances September 2017
Portuguese 2020
My friend and I are booked to do the Coastal Portuguese in Sept this year but will postpone until April 2021.
 

Tom Quinn

Happy walker
Camino(s) past & future
(2019)
(2020)
Had planned on this year but it looks very unlikely now. On the positive side, got a new pair of Trail Runners and will be using them to stay in shape for next year. It may be crowded or maybe not. I don't take up much space and neither does my partner. Probably September 2021. I'll be 83 and she'll be 67. The Best is yet to happen.
 

Tony Lenton

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Ingles (2018)
Camino Frances ( from Ponferrada 2019)
Had planned on this year but it looks very unlikely now. On the positive side, got a new pair of Trail Runners and will be using them to stay in shape for next year. It may be crowded or maybe not. I don't take up much space and neither does my partner. Probably September 2021. I'll be 83 and she'll be 67. The Best is yet to happen.
Thanks, Tom. I really enjoyed your positive post.I would be on the Meseta now, having been due to start from St Jean on 26 March. I’m watching the stages on YouTube, though. As for the future there are so many imponderables that I’m not making any plans. A walk into town and a pint in a pub seems a long way off. The world has changed.
 

CWBuff

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
in Planning stage: Frances (SJPdP --> SdC) & Finisterre "2021" ... (GOD WILLING!)
I was to start my Camino on April 19th. When I cancelled it on March 20th I was hopeful to go sometime in the fall 2020, but I now think it very unlikely. I would hope next for spring 2021, but there is definately uncertainty; it seems a long way off.
Come on @Camino Chrissy - do my timeline
Would be awesome and hilarious to meet face to face after getting through this pestilence! 👍

P.S. Obviously the original plan for May-June 21 are still in place.
Probably will get a bit more... shall we say.... challenging 🤨 what with folks shifting their walks from this year, but could be one heckuva surreal experience! 👍
As long as we DO get to go 🙏
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Come on @Camino Chrissy - do my timeline
Would be awesome and hilarious to meet face to face after getting through this pestilence! 👍

P.S. Obviously the original plan for May-June 21 are still in place.
Probably will get a bit more... shall we say.... challenging 🤨 what with folks shifting their walks from this year, but could be one heckuva surreal experience! 👍
As long as we DO get to go 🙏
Buffy, your timeline is still ticking away I'm sure, but May is now just around the corner and I doubt we will be let back in Spain so early. I will hope the best for you...it's no fun to be hugely disappointed.
Happy Easter!
 

Simon Shum

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances Oct 2013, Porto, San Salvador & Primitivo 2014. Norte 2016, VdLP & Via Francigena 2017
Curious as to all of us pilgrims that were going to start March/April? Are you thinking fall of 2020 or spring of 2021?
We cancelled ours for April, but I truly hope things will be back to normal and do my camino in Sept/Oct this year, and then more camino for 2021.
 

malingerer

samarkand
Camino(s) past & future
cf (2), de la plata, cp. (2003 -2018)
Had planned on this year but it looks very unlikely now. On the positive side, got a new pair of Trail Runners and will be using them to stay in shape for next year. It may be crowded or maybe not. I don't take up much space and neither does my partner. Probably September 2021. I'll be 83 and she'll be 67. The Best is yet to happen.

I will be 82 this year ( God and the virus willing :) and my love-dove is 65 so you are in good company! We will go when we can. we have decided to fly into Bordeaux and then train down to St. J. It'll have to be the valley route with plenty stops to Valcarlos. After that , who knows. May well be a taxi to Puerte de Ibaneta and then a roll down the hill to the Abbey! It's that first glass of wine there that lures me on! That, and that first whisper to the wind " I am back" and hear the reply " you never leave".

Walk soft and stay safe.

The Malingerer.

:)
 

Mary Doll

Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances Sarria to Santiago (2018)
Camino Francés SJPDP to Finisterre planned for June 2020
Was due to start Camino Francés in June. Now hoping for September/October and if not then next spring.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Was due to start Camino Francés in June. Now hoping for September/October and if not then next spring.
The reason I have not cancelled my late September tickets and plans is that IF things are open for Camino travel at that time, flight reservations may be difficult to obtain. . . I anticipate that airlines will be slow to add flights back to their full and normal schedule all at once, and so the number of seats PLUS the upsurge of travelers might make getting onto a desired flight a bit difficult.

On the other hand, I have the option to cancel all flight reservations for Late September for a full refund because of the 'flex' option that is part of the tickets price.
 

pmw

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2004 & 2005 Camino Frances and Finisterre. 2013 via de la plata
2014 del Norte, Ingles, Finisterre
Hello. I was planning on leaving this May 4th--obviously that won't happen now. I am looking at postponing until May/June 2021 if all is well. If not it will be in 2022 at which time I will turn 70. Wishing everyone good health and safety during these crazy times. Peace!
Same here- I was planning to start my 8th Camino on May 4th- the Via de la Plata.
I’m hitting 70 same year as you (June...) and that’s my plan now....
 

Thornley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances x 2 , Norte x 2 , Le Puy x 3 , Portuguese x 2,
Mont St Michel , Primitivo .
their full and normal schedule
Have always been intrigued Dave whether you guys on the west coast take the smaller plane [737 etc] first or last when flying to the Camino , and is Madrid the get off destination or Paris ?
Personally i can't sit in the 320's [ 2x2] or 737's[ 3x3] for any period in excess of 3 yrs unless up the front ..knees not in good shape.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Have always been intrigued Dave whether you guys on the west coast take the smaller plane [737 etc] first or last when flying to the Camino , and is Madrid the get off destination or Paris ?
Personally i can't sit in the 320's [ 2x2] or 737's[ 3x3] for any period in excess of 3 yrs unless up the front ..knees not in good shape.
From Seattle, the airlines I have used (Icelandair, Norwegian, Condor) are either direct or with a short layover with the same plane (Reykjavik with Icelandair). I have flown into Paris, Madrid, and Frankfurt before, then transfer to a regional hop (like Paris to Biarritz).

This time I'll fly into London (Gatwick), then hop to Pau in order to get to Somport for the Aragones.
 

Eric G

Member
Camino(s) past & future
1st timer
Still keeping the original late September thru late October plans in place. I will evaluate the need to cancel plans during the first week of September.
Hey Dave,
I'm hoping for end of September/October as well. I gotta have something to look forward to weather it happens or not. Just canceled a 5 May start date.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Commence 27 or 28 April 2021 from StJ
Cancelled out 27 April 2020 start, now waiting for leave application 26 April 20 18 June 2021 to be approved to re-set. Was thinking of doing Frances later in 2021 but am caught up on the COVID response/care and whilst the word may slowly open up, work wise, will not be out of the mire any time in 2020.
 

CamillaO

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2022)
I was going to arrive in SJPdP on June 1st and start walking the next day, but I don't think that is going to happen. My flights (HEL - CDG - BIA) haven't been canceled yet, so I'm just following the situation on them and of course hoping for a refund. Due to my work I'm only able to walk during summer, but I don't want to walk next summer because of the Holy Year, so currently my plan has shifted to June - July 2022.
 

Marcel234

“Not all those who wander are lost.”
Camino(s) past & future
2009/10/11/12/13/14/15/16 and this June 2017
I decided to cancel my annual walk this year when the virus was just emerging because I was very concerned that sharing space in albergues would be like walking into an incubator. This would have been my 10th year. So now I feel like giving the answer Tom got in the movie when he asked the clerk at La Posada if she had ever walked the Camino. I will be 75 in the Holy Year and am very concerned about the size of the crowds next year, so waiting until 2022 will be a very difficult decision for me to make. I have so many wonderful memories, so maybe that is what I get to keep with me for the rest of my life.
Beautiful, I can feel and understand your emotions. I walked 10 years in a row. 2019 was the year I didnt walk because my daughters were in the hospital for 4 months. You feel incomplete.

But Biarritsdon, I walked in two holy years. By head, 2010 and 2014 (an extra holy hear). I didn’t feel it was busier than normal. In 2010 I was walking in July (day of st James in Santiago, that was busy), in 2014 in November. Both were beautiful.

I truly hope you can walk again so. If I voyld I would give you ‘my’ spot. :)
 

PJN

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
-
All you chaps sound what one would expect right now . Me as well - supposed to start walking 20 June 2020
We were due to start our last year on Camino Frances just from Sarria to SdCompostela. Plan was to have a few days at Santiago, walk to the sea , and just enjoy the place .
We were thinking of starting Camino del Norte 2021 . Maybe thats a pipe dream .

Coming from New Zealand, and meeting my longtime friend in England , El Camino is a great time for us 2 over-70 ladies
Taken us 5 years of superb walking, catching up and the wonderful Spaniards
Still we are able to walk during Lockdown so thats a blessing .

Best wishes to you all
See you probably 2021 x
 

Thornley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances x 2 , Norte x 2 , Le Puy x 3 , Portuguese x 2,
Mont St Michel , Primitivo .
Time to buy that tent I think.
Not treating it as a joke David but we were told we were a chance to lose 150,000.
I think this virus will change how we approach life , how the Govt's approach life , the young will be worse off after this for a few yrs.......... how is this proposal ...................to make us smile ;
The Two Davids Den ,
We buy a small albergue , must have no borrowings , employ your mob with the locals for easy access to tradies as we will have only one airline ;) ,
Must not be too old for ease in bringing it up to the current building / health regulations
Make sure all beds are separated by a wall , locker in each room [ 2.2m wide]
No kitchen so the 1.5m distance will be retained and get onside with the locals ....share the money around. Charge 10e minimum and have micky mouse showers and toilets.
***** And we always check their temperature on arrival ............always............... and if they have a temperature ............ ....adios [ this should get a few replies mate 😀o_O] but this self preservation might be mandatory by the time "you" finish building.
The albergue must be in a village with a medical centre or very near as we can't let them sleep in the streets.
And i would bar all Paddy's 😀😀.
Smile and comment whilst you are cooped up.
 
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David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
Dave! How on earth did you get onto an alien starship????
 

VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
2022 or later????
The operative word is intermittently.

The quote that jumped out at me from that article was:
“Predicting the end of the pandemic in the summer [of 2020] is not consistent with what we know about the spread of infections.”
And the message that without a vaccine this intermittent social distancing could be our lives until 2025.

But really, who knows?
The only certainty is that graph of the neatly and steadily increasing numbers of pilgrims per year with a big spike on holy years will now look very different than we all expected.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Is that Albergue La Finca? That's actually pretty close to the way a real floor-plan would look. I envision no more bunk beds, but 'cubicles' could sit on top of each other. The curtains would need to be replaced with a hard surface version for the purpose of sanitizing.. . . accordion-style expanding doors, perhaps.

Folks want to know where to donate to Camino-related projects, and if these types of changes ever become mandated, then lots of donations will be needed.

This all makes me wonder about the large, 'family' style shared tables and meals, which are enjoyed by many Pilgrims as part of Camino.
 
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JesperK

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2013-2016x2-2018 CP:2014 CF:(2022)
I was supposed to be there right now - after my calculations, I should be sipping a cervaza lemon right now in Burgos. But that was not to be.
I am afraid many of you are way too optimistic. I don't even think Spain will open up this year for the camino people. And next year with many albergues closed down or disappeared, many wont survive these months of corona, and on a jubilee year. I am now planning for 2022.
 

Hansel

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances and Fisterre (2018,08) ,Camino Primitivo, and Fisterre,(2019,04)
If I'm still alive, it want be until 2022 John O Groats Rome as next year is the Holy year with to many pilgrim around.
That's a fair walk!
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
I am afraid many of you are way too optimistic.
I can sure understand that point of view. Perhaps, it is a balance to those whose views are way too pessimistic. :)

The EU is likely to provide some level of small business support during the shutdown of tourism, so how much of the support infrastructure (grocers, restaurants, bars, lodgings, etc) are in danger of total collapse is debatable.

Albergues are a desirable and needed part of the Camino. They deserve support, and hopefully, the majority will survive the economic challenge we now face. Hopefully, any EU economic relief offered to small businesses will include all albergues.

When it comes down to it, the Camino-routes themselves aren't going away, no matter how bad this temporary downturn to the global economy turns out to be. IF every albergue were to shut down, the Camino will still be there. As long as there are tents or tarps, park benches, church porches, etc. OR other lodgings (hotels, casa rurals, hostals) pilgrims will walk the Camino.

There is a lot of speculation as to when tourist related travel will again be allowed and borders open. No one knows. . no one has a crystal ball. :)
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Is that Albergue La Finca? That's actually pretty close to the way a real floor-plan would look. I envision no more bunk beds, but 'cubicles' could sit on top of each other. The curtains would need to be replaced with a hard surface version for the purpose of sanitizing.. . . accordion-style expanding doors, perhaps.

Folks want to know where to donate to Camino-related projects, and if these types of changes ever become mandated, then lots of donations will be needed.

This all makes me wonder about the large, 'family' style shared tables and meals, which are enjoyed by many Pilgrims as part of Camino.
Yes, it's La Finca. The upper "bunks" don't need a curtain, because they are already very private.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Yes, it's La Finca. The upper "bunks" don't need a curtain, because they are already very private.
Sure enough. I was thinking more about containment of pathogen spread with door closures, though. . not so much for the privacy concerns. :)
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Japan. :) I think that there will be a lot of interest, by other Camino dormitory lodgings, in copying what Hostal Cross has provided.

The fit and finish is not as important as the ability to physically divide the bed-spaces in a manner that effectively reduces exposure risk to illness. For those alburgues that are short on funds, using the most cost effective materials to create divided spaces, like rough plywoods and particle-boards, is sufficient.

Perhaps charitable organizations can begin organizing efforts now, in preparation for providing funds to those alburgues that need assistance in paying for remodeling and space modifications.

I wonder if this is something that matches the mission of Peaceable Projects? American Pilgrims on Camino? Various other Confraternities or Camino associations? I want to donate. . to assist with getting alburgues to reopen as soon as they are able to, if this type of remodeling does become a requirement.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

C clearly

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016), VDLP (2017), Mozarabe (2018), Vasco/Bayona (2019)
Maybe I am being naive, but I am doubtful that the albergue sleeping arrangements will be near the top of anyone's post-pandemic fix list. There are many situations where many more people have close contact, and create a higher risk to public health than the albergues. Once we have a vaccine, the immediate COVID-19 risk can be controlled.

I would think that there are many many more important ways to reduce risks.

How many of the COVID-19 cases this year have been attributed to accommodation in albergue accommodation?

Am I missing something?
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Maybe I am being naive, but I am doubtful that the albergue sleeping arrangements will be near the top of anyone's post-pandemic fix list. There are many situations where many more people have close contact, and create a higher risk to public health than the albergues. Once we have a vaccine, the immediate COVID-19 risk can be controlled.

I would think that there are many many more important ways to reduce risks.

How many of the COVID-19 cases this year have been attributed to accommodation in albergue accommodation?

Am I missing something?
Perhaps you are correct about both the vaccinations, and alburgues as COVID-19 vectors. We are simply speculating about what will carry over as personal protective strategies, now that the world has had the knowledge reinforced about how easy respiratory viruses can be transmitted. . . COVID-19 as well as others .

Do we know how much exposure to COVID-19 actually occurred in alburgues? No, nor is that something we will know. What we do know, is that a lot of the factors that can lead to exposure to COVID-19 currently exist in many alburgues.

With public health strategies, it is the reduction to the risk that is paramount, not the knowledge of who actually is infected. While we know how people become exposed to COVID-19 and other respiratory viruses, we can not know who is carrying the virus unless they are diagnosed, or they have been infected long enough to be accurately tested.

I personally do not believe a vaccine will be available prior to the resumption of travel and tourism. There is also the issue that vaccines are not 100% effective, and, as a group, have a variable effectiveness rate of 45 to 85%. There are also those who cannot take a vaccine due to contraindications in that person's health history.

That means that for a significant population of travelers, there will be no effective vaccination, even if one is available. The ongoing strategy for exposure reduction cannot rely on vaccination alone, but will need to incorporate those Personal Protective methods that we are currently using to reduce risks of transmission.

From what I've seen, at least in the US, is that as outbreaks subside and shelter-in-place orders are lifted, the strategies to reduce exposures will likely remain in place in some form for businesses. Right now, modifications to everything from restaurant seating, and food handling and serving, to grocery check out lines and purchasing transactions, are all being looked at and considered.

So when tourism resumes, it is not the lodging facilities with individual rooms that will be impacted. If government regulations are put into place that look at maintaining social distancing strategies, it will be lodgings which utilize dorm-style sleeping arrangements that will be affected the most.

If social distancing regulations/guidelines are enacted, requiring adoption by businesses prior to opening as normal, alburgues will be severely impacted if they wait to comply. Many issues, from the amount of fresh air ventilation and circulation, to the proximity of beds with no barriers, alburgues may have to make changes or stay closed.

None of that may happen. Vaccine protocols may be right around the corner. But it may be useful to plan for the negatives, while hoping for the most positive of outcomes.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

C clearly

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016), VDLP (2017), Mozarabe (2018), Vasco/Bayona (2019)
With public health strategies, it is the reduction to the risk that is paramount,
Yes, I understand that, which is why I am wondering if the albergues really present such a large risk, compared to other factors for the country as a whole. I don't know the answer - just wondering.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Yes, I understand that, which is why I am wondering if the albergues really present such a large risk, compared to other factors for the country as a whole. I don't know the answer - just wondering.
Sorry for the long winded reply. But I am with you on all of this. . , I do not know, either. I am just creating scenarios with puzzle pieces It's just a big, old plate of speculation, with ketchup on top. :)
 

CathyP

Cathy
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances April (2020)
My husband and I would have woken up in Madrid this morning, and had planned to begin our first Camino from SJPdP on the 24th. Our sadness comes in waves, I would say. We are able to continue with socially-distanced hikes and walks close to home, and treat each outing as training for the Camino we WILL walk someday. We hope it is in 2022, at this point, I guess...who knows right now? Our hearts are with the country of Spain and all those impacted personally and economically by Covid-19. Staying positive.
 

Thornley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances x 2 , Norte x 2 , Le Puy x 3 , Portuguese x 2,
Mont St Michel , Primitivo .
Perhaps you are correct about both the vaccinations, and alburgues as COVID-19 vectors. We are simply speculating about what will carry over as personal protective strategies, now that the world has had the knowledge reinforced about how easy respiratory viruses can be transmitted. . . COVID-19 as well as others .

Do we know how much exposure to COVID-19 actually occurred in alburgues? No, nor is that something we will know. What we do know, is that a lot of the factors that can lead to exposure to COVID-19 currently exist in many alburgues.

With public health strategies, it is the reduction to the risk that is paramount, not the knowledge of who actually is infected. While we know how people become exposed to COVID-19 and other respiratory viruses, we can not know who is carrying the virus unless they are diagnosed, or they have been infected long enough to be accurately tested.

I personally do not believe a vaccine will be available prior to the resumption of travel and tourism. There is also the issue that vaccines are not 100% effective, and, as a group, have a variable effectiveness rate of 45 to 85%. There are also those who cannot take a vaccine due to contraindications in that person's health history.

That means that for a significant population of travelers, there will be no effective vaccination, even if one is available. The ongoing strategy for exposure reduction cannot rely on vaccination alone, but will need to incorporate those Personal Protective methods that we are currently using to reduce risks of transmission.

From what I've seen, at least in the US, is that as outbreaks subside and shelter-in-place orders are lifted, the strategies to reduce exposures will likely remain in place in some form for businesses. Right now, modifications to everything from restaurant seating, and food handling and serving, to grocery check out lines and purchasing transactions, are all being looked at and considered.

So when tourism resumes, it is not the lodging facilities with individual rooms that will be impacted. If government regulations are put into place that look at maintaining social distancing strategies, it will be lodgings which utilize dorm-style sleeping arrangements that will be affected the most.

If social distancing regulations/guidelines are enacted, requiring adoption by businesses prior to opening as normal, alburgues will be severely impacted if they wait to comply. Many issues, from the amount of fresh air ventilation and circulation, to the proximity of beds with no barriers, alburgues may have to make changes or stay closed.

None of that may happen. Vaccine protocols may be right around the corner. But it may be useful to plan for the negatives, while hoping for the most positive of outcomes.
It looks like no International flights from Australia until 2021 .
Because of the seasons that makes April the earliest sensible time (Napoleon closed)
The problem here Dave is if the virus repeats
So I pray that every country can get a vaccine ASAP and the Spanish Govt helps prepare all hospitality outlets moving forward , whatever the regulations.
This is going to be bigger than I originally thought in so many ways.
Keep safe
 

Trini48

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2014 CF
2015 Irun to Oviedo.
2017 Primitivo, Portuguese
2018 Madrid
I had planned to start at SJPdP on April 14th. I'm hoping now that I will be allowed start at the same time next year, but am a little concerned at the possible numbers. 🤔
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
It looks like no International flights from Australia until 2021 .
Because of the seasons that makes April the earliest sensible time (Napoleon closed)
The problem here Dave is if the virus repeats
So I pray that every country can get a vaccine ASAP and the Spanish Govt helps prepare all hospitality outlets moving forward , whatever the regulations.
This is going to be bigger than I originally thought in so many ways.
Keep safe
I do not disagree with you at all. I presented the issues that are involved, not predictions.

However, I do not believe a vaccine will be developed in the near term, if at all.

We must keep in mind that out of all the many viral human diseases, we have only a relatively few vaccines. Developing a vaccine against a viral illness is the exception, not the rule. So it is possible that out of all the potential candidates that are being examined, none will pan out in the near term. Looking at earlier SARS and COVID vaccine developments for the last 5 years, provide a good case study.

After a vaccine is identified, the trial stages will take a large amount of time. Establishing efficacy as well as safety cannot be done in short order. Animal trials will take time. Then there will be several stages of human trials.

Once a vaccination and protocol is defined, then it will take time to produce quantities of the vaccine for a global population. Distribution to caregivers and clinics, and then the queue that will develop for individual administration. Development, trials, production, and administered vaccines. . . it will be a research, development and logistics process that will take quite a while.

And we will have to see what the actual effectiveness rate of protection will end up being, which can take up to 18 months AFTER most candidates have been vaccinated to get a full determination. Current vaccines range from 45% to 87% effective. And that doesn't address the issue of what percentage of people will not be able to take a developed vaccine due to contraindications.

Whatever strategies are put in place to reduce risk of COVID-19 transmission, they cannot rely on a vaccine. If a vaccine is the requirement for tourism, then I would plan on 2022 or beyond as the earliest opening for travel.

I think it should also be recognized that there isn't a single policy or predictive model about COVID-19 that has not undergone several revisions. There is speculation of latent and secondary outbreaks; there is also speculation that there will not be further outbreak stages that will occur waves.

So for now, I'll hope for the best outcome, while being prepared for the worst. :)
 

mark stevens

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
camino Francés - 2016
camino Ingles - 2018
camino Norte - 2019
I was starting on May 21st on the Norte again. got a September date in the diary now and may do the warmer Camino Mazarabe from Malaga. Lets hope all the madness ends soon and we can get back to normal...
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
The Spanish Influenza came in three waves over two years. Just saying.

Everyone must help stop the spread in their home country. Nothing else really matters at this stage. If we don’t stop the spread in our home countries, nobody is going to let us travel out of it to visit any other country.
 

mmmmartin

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santander-SdC bici '14
Plata bici '17
1/2 Plata bici '18
Frances a pie '18
(Porto a pie '19)
Whatever strategies are put in place to reduce risk of COVID-19 transmission, they cannot rely on a vaccine. If a vaccine is the requirement for tourism, then I would plan on 2022 or beyond as the earliest opening for travel.
The Spanish Influenza came in three waves over two years.
If we don’t stop the spread in our home countries, nobody is going to let us travel out of it to visit any other country.
Very much agree with this. UK was told today restrictions unlikely to be lifted by Christmas. Can't see Spain letting us in until they're sure we're not infective. That can't possibly be this current year. May not be next year. And we're not yet sure that even if you've had it and recovered that you're then immune. South Korea has 91 who recovered, tested negative then tested positive.
 

emmanuel

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2011)
Norte (2014)
Norte (2016)
Salvador (2017)
Frances (2018)
Madrid-Salvador-Primitivo 19
Perhaps you are correct about both the vaccinations, and alburgues as COVID-19 vectors. We are simply speculating about what will carry over as personal protective strategies, now that the world has had the knowledge reinforced about how easy respiratory viruses can be transmitted. . . COVID-19 as well as others .

Do we know how much exposure to COVID-19 actually occurred in alburgues? No, nor is that something we will know. What we do know, is that a lot of the factors that can lead to exposure to COVID-19 currently exist in many alburgues.

With public health strategies, it is the reduction to the risk that is paramount, not the knowledge of who actually is infected. While we know how people become exposed to COVID-19 and other respiratory viruses, we can not know who is carrying the virus unless they are diagnosed, or they have been infected long enough to be accurately tested.

I personally do not believe a vaccine will be available prior to the resumption of travel and tourism. There is also the issue that vaccines are not 100% effective, and, as a group, have a variable effectiveness rate of 45 to 85%. There are also those who cannot take a vaccine due to contraindications in that person's health history.

That means that for a significant population of travelers, there will be no effective vaccination, even if one is available. The ongoing strategy for exposure reduction cannot rely on vaccination alone, but will need to incorporate those Personal Protective methods that we are currently using to reduce risks of transmission.

From what I've seen, at least in the US, is that as outbreaks subside and shelter-in-place orders are lifted, the strategies to reduce exposures will likely remain in place in some form for businesses. Right now, modifications to everything from restaurant seating, and food handling and serving, to grocery check out lines and purchasing transactions, are all being looked at and considered.

So when tourism resumes, it is not the lodging facilities with individual rooms that will be impacted. If government regulations are put into place that look at maintaining social distancing strategies, it will be lodgings which utilize dorm-style sleeping arrangements that will be affected the most.

If social distancing regulations/guidelines are enacted, requiring adoption by businesses prior to opening as normal, alburgues will be severely impacted if they wait to comply. Many issues, from the amount of fresh air ventilation and circulation, to the proximity of beds with no barriers, alburgues may have to make changes or stay closed.

None of that may happen. Vaccine protocols may be right around the corner. But it may be useful to plan for the negatives, while hoping for the most positive of outcomes.
As usual, you are spot on, I think.
 

anthikes

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2016 SJPdP > SdC
2018 Porto > SdC
2019 Sevilla > SdC
Just read that the Camino aims to be open from this autumn. Not sure how reliable the source is, but the fact remains that no one knows when things will be open until the Government makes an official announcement. Anything else reported in the press is pure speculation.

I am going to remain positive and hope to maybe walk some camino later this year and to show support to the local businesses that will be desperate for custom.

On a separate note, I don't believe Australia won't have international flights this year. They are already talking about allowing New Zealanders in, and they aren't going to be paddling across the Tasman!
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Just read that the Camino aims to be open from this autumn. Not sure how reliable the source is, but the fact remains that no one knows when things will be open until the Government makes an official announcement. Anything else reported in the press is pure speculation.
What was the source?
 

katie@camino

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF, SJPDP-Finisterre 2016;CP (Central) Porto-SdC 2017;CP (Coastal) Porto-SdC 2018;CF Leon-SdC 2019
Just read that the Camino aims to be open from this autumn. Not sure how reliable the source is, but the fact remains that no one knows when things will be open until the Government makes an official announcement. Anything else reported in the press is pure speculation.

I am going to remain positive and hope to maybe walk some camino later this year and to show support to the local businesses that will be desperate for custom.

On a separate note, I don't believe Australia won't have international flights this year. They are already talking about allowing New Zealanders in, and they aren't going to be paddling across the Tasman!
I read this too
 

Bob P

Member
Camino(s) past & future
First timer, leaving April 3rd from SJPDP
So, just some thoughts.
The seasonal flu is still ahead of Covid in deaths, flu vaccines exist, but I have never been asked to "prove" I had a vaccine. Why would a Covid vaccine be treated differently? And would it matter?

If many people are still worried about Covid in 2021 and thinking that 2022 would be better, might not 2021 actually be the time to go even with holy year?
 

concha

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Ingles (2019)
We too are in the UK which is still in lockdown. Whilst we have passed the peak, daily deaths and new infections are still very high. Our Foreign Office is advising again all non-essential international travel. We were due to walk the Portugues in mid September, having booked flights at the end of last year to Porto and back from SdC, but have decided not to walk it this year for the following reasons:

1. COVID19 is here to stay for the long term - until such time a vaccine is found, everyone (globally) is vaccinated and effective treatments are found in the interim period.
2.There will not be a vaccine available by September.
3. Travel insurance will not cover COVID19 - insurance companies are now excluding it from their policies.
4. Spain is unlikely (together with other Schengen countries) and until there is global vaccination, to allow foreign visitors into Spain without an initial testing and quarantine period upon entry - which makes a Camino for those who work and are taking annual leave unworkable.
5. Staying in albergues is unworkable with social distancing and there is too much risk of infection - and I expect Spanish authorities will have the same view and not allow them to open. I'm also unsure whether local communities will be ready to welcome peregrinos given that Spain has been one of the worst affected countries in Europe. The Camino infrastructure may just not be there this year.
6. There are real practical difficulties if we became ill with COVID19 whilst on the Camino - where do we self-isolate without putting others, including local people, at risk? We would be unable to fly back home whilst ill. But most importantly, we do not want to burden the Spanish healthcare system which has been overwhelmed by the epidemic in Spain.
7. We don't want to walk the Camino wearing face masks and having to purposefully social distance and avoid people - we would rather not walk it at all.
8. And finally......the Camino will always be there. Its been there for several hundred years and it will still be there next year, the year after and so on. We will walk it again when the time is right and it is safe for everyone to do so.
 
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trevorcc

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPD to Santiago 2013,2014, Camino de Levante Sept. 2016, Frances March 2018, planning 2020
While it’s impossible to know when anything akin to “normal” will return, my canceled April 2020 walk won’t happen again until at least April 2022. This Fall seems way too ambitious given the unknown and 2021 sounded overcrowded as a Jubilee year even before the 2020 pilgrims rescheduled their postponed trips a year.
It may not be as crowded as the cathedral has requested the Holy Year be extended.
 

trevorcc

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPD to Santiago 2013,2014, Camino de Levante Sept. 2016, Frances March 2018, planning 2020
Just read that the Camino aims to be open from this autumn. Not sure how reliable the source is, but the fact remains that no one knows when things will be open until the Government makes an official announcement. Anything else reported in the press is pure speculation.

I am going to remain positive and hope to maybe walk some camino later this year and to show support to the local businesses that will be desperate for custom.

On a separate note, I don't believe Australia won't have international flights this year. They are already talking about allowing New Zealanders in, and they aren't going to be paddling across the Tasman!
We may have flights to NZ, but it is up to the EU that will count, so follow the EU on when they will have flights allowed. Then the I can jump over there as quickly to see and help out.
 

clearskies

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Here and there
Curious as to all of us pilgrims that were going to start March/April? Are you thinking fall of 2020 or spring of 2021?
I was due to walk from Porto in September.
I have now made provisional plans to walk from Burgos to Santiago in April.
Let's hope so, anyway.
 

anthikes

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2016 SJPdP > SdC
2018 Porto > SdC
2019 Sevilla > SdC
Portugal (where I live) is opening up much faster than Spain. Hotels, hostels and
campsites can open from Monday, as well as restaurants and cafes. There are no travel restrictions within the country.

Portugal are keen to offer holidays from July to international visitors. There are currently no flight restrictions from the EU, EEA, UK, Portuguese speaking countries and the USA.

So doing part of a Camino here will definitely be viable soon if you are happy to leave the Spanish part until another time.

IMG_20200516_172006.jpg
 

Hansel

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances and Fisterre (2018,08) ,Camino Primitivo, and Fisterre,(2019,04)
Portugal (where I live) is opening up much faster than Spain. Hotels, hostels and
campsites can open from Monday, as well as restaurants and cafes. There are no travel restrictions within the country.

Portugal are keen to offer holidays from July to international visitors. There are currently no flight restrictions from the EU, EEA, UK, Portuguese speaking countries and the USA.

So doing part of a Camino here will definitely be viable soon if you are happy to leave the Spanish part until another time.

View attachment 75123
Thanks for the update,maybe get to Portugal this year,
Bill
 


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