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Non-RC pilgrims and mass

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sjf

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I'm looking forward to a few days on the Frances in October. I'm a Christian and I see this very much as a pilgrimage, but I'm not a Roman Catholic. What's the routine for non-RC pilgrims and church services? Are the services for other denominations anywhere? Specifically, Anglican/Episcopalian. Or should I just plan to go to the services in the local churches?

If you traveled the Camino as a Christian pilgrim but not a Roman Catholic, what did you do for mass?
 
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You will be hard pressed to find anything but Roman Catholic churches and services. This being said, you are more than welcome to attend. Except ... communion.

In the strictest, and most typical approach, communion in a RC mass is only for RC. But ... if you are invited by the priest to take communion, then by all means.

If this is important to you, go to the church a few minutes before mass and explain you are Catholic but not RC, and ask if it is ok for you to participate in communion. Some will say yes, others may refuse you.

I have read on the Forum about arm crossing as a sign of passing on communion, but I can not imagine a situation when one would find oneself in front of a priest for communion if one didn't want to partake. Just stay seated or kneeling in prayer during communion then.

In Santiago. At the cathedral, there are times when people are reminded over the microphone that communion is only for RC. Many do not respect that. I would hope one would.

I hope this is helpful.
 
Hi, sjf, if you use the search function, you will find lots of discussions of this topic. Here is a recent one. https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/as-a-protestant.42703/

Though one of the forum rules is that there should be no discussion of religion, the fact that the Camino is a Roman Catholic pilgrimage path means that we give some slack to that topic. But things frequently get heated or ugly, and moderators sometimes have to step in to cut off discussion. Hope that doesn't happen here. Buen camino, Laurie
 
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I am Episcopalian and attended Mass every chance I got. Did not take communion except in places where I asked beforehand if it was okay. In Santiago there may be an Anglican presence. There was a thread on forum about it months ago.

Buen camino.
 
It is nearly impossible to find a non-Catholic church along the caminos in Spain. As nearly as I can tell, all chapels and churches welcome everyone. It violates Catholic rules for non-Catholics to take communion, but no one seems to care. I walked a week with the Queen's Chaplain. He did not take communion because he knew and respected the rules, but thousands of is religious brethrens were offered, and took, communion. If you don't make it an issue, no one else will.:):)
 
Thank you, all. I don't mean to post anything offensive or contentious, just looking for information as I prepare. I'll gladly go to the services I find, read, pray, and enjoy being there as a pilgrim. And I'll try to find an Anglican/Episcopal service once I get to Santiago so I can receive the sacrament,
 
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Hi sjf...very interesting question. I'm not a RC but Anglican by birth and choice. I took Mass every time I could on the CF even when it was announced it was only for RC's. But I walked with non RC's that attended services but didn't take Mass.

So I believe that the choice is yours.

I read the thread that Laurie suggested that has good discussion in it.
 
Hi sjf...very interesting question. I'm not a RC but Anglican by birth and choice. I took Mass every time I could on the CF even when it was announced it was only for RC's. But I walked with non RC's that attended services but didn't take Mass.

So I believe that the choice is yours.

I read the thread that Laurie suggested that has good discussion in it.
Are you talking about attending Mass or taking communion? As a very non-practicing Catholic, I do the former, but not the latter.
 
I'm looking forward to a few days on the Frances in October. I'm a Christian and I see this very much as a pilgrimage, but I'm not a Roman Catholic. What's the routine for non-RC pilgrims and church services? Are the services for other denominations anywhere? Specifically, Anglican/Episcopalian. Or should I just plan to go to the services in the local churches?

If you traveled the Camino as a Christian pilgrim but not a Roman Catholic, what did you do for mass?

Non-Catholics on pilgrimage to Santiago may, conditionally, attend the Mass during their pilgrimage.

The first condition is lack of access to their own pastors, so that as a measure of mercy, they may fulfil their Sunday obligation at a Catholic Mass.

The second condition concerns Holy Communion -- they may only take Communion if they believe in the Real Presence of Christ in Eucharist ; this used to technically prevent attending Mass, until Pope Martin V ruled otherwise many centuries ago. It is quite exceptional for non-Catholics to be able to take Communion like this BTW. Also, in any case, Communion is not possible in a state of unconfessed mortal sin.

Safest bet would be to attend the Mass, but refrain from Communion. Or you could always go to Confession !
 
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Non-Catholics on pilgrimage to Santiago may, conditionally, attend the Mass during their pilgrimage.

The first condition is lack of access to their own pastors, so that as a measure of mercy, they may fulfil their Sunday obligation at a Catholic Mass.

The second condition concerns Holy Communion -- they may only take Communion if they believe in the Real Presence of Christ in Eucharist ; this used to technically prevent attending Mass, until Pope Martin V ruled otherwise many centuries ago. It is quite exceptional for non-Catholics to be able to take Communion like this BTW. Also, in any case, Communion is not possible in a state of unconfessed mortal sin.

Safest bet would be to attend the Mass, but refrain from Communion. Or you could always go to Confession !

Thank you for the information. As a Baptist, the Communion is observed as a holy, yet symbolic tradition; we do not believe in the actual presence of Christ as the Body or the Blood. I had planned on attending Mass as a part of my Pilgimage, which is religious in nature, because their are some shared theological views between the RC and Baptist faiths even though the RC Church would never look at me as a Catholic :)
 
I'm looking forward to a few days on the Frances in October. I'm a Christian and I see this very much as a pilgrimage, but I'm not a Roman Catholic. What's the routine for non-RC pilgrims and church services? Are the services for other denominations anywhere? Specifically, Anglican/Episcopalian. Or should I just plan to go to the services in the local churches?

If you traveled the Camino as a Christian pilgrim but not a Roman Catholic, what did you do for mass?
I have been on the Camino and the Chemin de St. Jacques four times . Originally as a seeker and then as a pilgrim. I'm a Presbyterian and have always made an effort to seek out the Catholic services. It was those services that helped me to connect with the spiritually of the Camino.
Have faith and you will find it.
 
Are you talking about attending Mass or taking communion? As a very non-practicing Catholic, I do the former, but not the latter.

good point...I attend Mass where I take Communion or only take Communion if there are no priests present but laypersons.....there are obviously church rules about what you are meant to do or not to do.....no wonder I got so many blisters last year!

thanks JabbaPapa clarification on this.
 
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Safest bet would be to attend the Mass, but refrain from Communion. Or you could always go to Confession !

The same canon law which forbids Catholic priests from offering communion to non-Catholics except in extraordinary circumstances also forbids them to offer the other sacraments - including penance and anointing. The way individual priests choose to interpret such rules and then apply them in practice is a far more complicated matter!
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2T.HTM
https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/intercommunion.htm
 
In the larger cities you can find Protestant churches; for example there are evangelical churches in León and Ponferrada, and then in Santiago there's a larger one that would be suitable for pilgrims. If you'd like these names and locations please PM me and I can send them to you.

There are Anglican churches in Spain as well but I believe they're mostly off of the Camino Frances, except for the one in Pamplona. The thread link that Laurie posted above has some links to the Anglican churches as well as a couple other different denominations and their churches in Spain.

Almost all of these churches will be in Spanish, though I know of an international church in Madrid that's in English.

At the English mass in Santiago when the Camino Chaplaincy was directing it (now it's the Cathedral's responsibility so things have probably changed), Father Joe used to invite pilgrims who didn't want to take communion but who still wanted a blessing to come forward and cross their arms. He would then give them a blessing. You may or may not find other priests along the trail who issue this invitation.

Buen Camino!
Faith
 
I don't wish to cause controversy but I disagree with the assertion that the Camino to Santiago is a "Roman Catholic pilgrimage". The destination is the Catholic Cathedral of Santiago and whilst in medieval times Catholicism was the only religion these days the Camino belongs to all of us not any particular denomination. Alas the spirit of ecumenism engendered by the Camino experience stops at the door of many churches.
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
The same canon law which forbids Catholic priests from offering communion to non-Catholics except in extraordinary circumstances also forbids them to offer the other sacraments - including penance and anointing. The way individual priests choose to interpret such rules and then apply them in practice is a far more complicated matter!
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2T.HTM
https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/intercommunion.htm

Well, I can't see this thread lasting much longer, but ... foot pilgrimages to recognised Catholic shrines have in the past been considered as "extraordinary circumstances" (because the pilgrim can be considered to be in the midst of a serious effort of conversion towards the direction of the Church), and though in general you're quite right to post this caveat, it wouldn't be so true for the Eastern Orthodox or Coptic Christians for example -- though to get really technical, these are matters subjected in practice to the decisions of the local Ordinaries along the Camino. And even then, a local pastor could quite legitimately refuse communion in such circumstances, even with a general permission of his Bishop to provide it.

And crikey, let's not start with the technicalities of Confession and mortal sin ... :eek:
 
Well, I can't see this thread lasting much longer, but ... foot pilgrimages to recognised Catholic shrines have in the past been considered as "extraordinary circumstances" (because the pilgrim can be considered to be in the midst of a serious effort of conversion towards the direction of the Church),

I agree. Although I no longer consider myself a Christian and therefore do not receive communion in any church - even in my own Anglican denomination - I have received both communion and sacramental penance and absolution from Catholic priests in the past in just such circumstances. I intended to point out that while the Catholic church's official position on the sacraments and Christians of other traditions is relatively clear and prohibitive the situation in practice is far more complex as individual priests try to resolve any conflict between formal church teaching and their immediate pastoral situation.
 
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I'm an Anglican Catholic priest.... At my parish I never ask to see anyone's 'paperwork'. I recite the Invitation to Communion from the Book of Common Prayer (American, 1928), and anyone who can then come in good faith to the rail is offered Communion. If I err I prefer to err on the side of inclusivity.

I'll stack my catholic bona fides up against anybody's, but I also feel that it would be disrespectful for me to enter a Roman church and then knowingly and deliberately violate its 'closed communion' rule. On the Camino I go to Mass just about every chance I get, but I do not receive. Its more a matter of common courtesy than theology for me. (But I confess that I'm not much of a theologian!)
 
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At my parish I never ask to see anyone's 'paperwork'. I recite the Invitation to Communion from the Book of Common Prayer (1928), and anyone who can then come in good faith to the rail is offered Communion. If I err I prefer to err on the side of inclusivity.

I'll stack my catholic bona fides up against anybody's, but I also feel that it would be disrespectful for me to enter a Roman church and then knowingly and deliberately violate its 'closed communion' rule.' On the Camino I go to Mass just about every chance I get, but I do not receive. Its more a matter of common courtesy than theology for me. (But I confess that I'm not much of a theologian!)


You are such a warm person. Thank you for your spirit of inclusivity, but also sharing your opinion of courtesy!
 
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The Camino is a Christian pilgrimage, but one where all are welcome- Christian or not. All are welcome at a Catholic mass, but the Eucharist is a sacrament, just like baptism, marriage and holy orders. You wouldn't partake in these sacraments if you didn't believe in the dogma of the church (though many practicing Catholics don't truly embrace transubstantiation and they receive communion anyways!) So if you are not RC, just walk up with your arms crossed across your chest, hands touching opposite shoulders, and receive the blessing. You'll be glad you did!
 
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Eek! Minefield. I am reminded of Stan the Pole (actually he was Latvian) who longed for release from judgment by his neighbours, and escape into the mercy of his God...
 
More likely Greek in fact, as it was the lingua franca of 1st Century Judea/Israel/Palestine/Syria. Not for nothing is it the language of the New Testament.

I may have to revise my previous comment on being pedantic - this one may beat my earlier effort :) Yes indeed - Greek was a lingua franca in the New Testament period. But that does not mean that it was the everyday spoken language of the majority of the people in the regions of Judea and Palestine. Rather it means that it was the language of choice for international trade and other cultural interchange between different national groups who might otherwise have no common tongue. The primary language for most Jewish people in the region at that period was Aramaic: Greek was understood and spoken by a small minority and Hebrew was principally in use as a liturgical and scholarly language rather than for everyday speech.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_Jesus
https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/what-language-did-jesus-speak/
 
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But that does not mean that it was the everyday spoken language of the majority of the people in the regions of Judea and Palestine. Rather it means that it was the language of choice for international trade and other cultural interchange between different national groups who might otherwise have no common tongue.

... except for the fact that the Greek Septuagint version of the Torah was by far the most commonly used text in that period.

Yes, Greek was in fact the most common everyday spoken language in the public sphere -- Judea/Israel/Palestine/Syria had been under Greek dominance for centuries.

However ...

The primary language for most Jewish people in the region at that period was Aramaic: Greek was understood and spoken by a small minority and Hebrew was principally in use as a liturgical and scholarly language rather than for everyday speech.

More likely, the people of the time were routinely either bilingual (their mother tongue plus Greek) or if they were Hebrews, trilingual (their mother tongue plus Greek and at least some functional Hebrew) -- excluding of course those having Greek as their mother tongue.

Interestingly, Nazareth itself was a bath town, and a market town, and I've seen good evidence that it was a Roman garrison town -- and the Roman soldiery was officially required to use Latin.

It's very possible that Jesus grew up learning Aramaic as His mother tongue, Greek as the ordinary lingua franca (indeed, His very Name is formally Greek in structure, if not origin, so that it's clear He was a Greek-speaker, as if surrounding Himself with Greek-speaking & -writing disciples weren't evidence enough), Hebrew at the synagogue, and Latin at the carpentry/architect shop to deal with the richest local clients.
 
Thank you all for a marvellous debate I really enjoyed all those valid opinions and different perspectives, however i have to go with Bradypus ( who I have not always agreed with) My vote is fully for Aramaic, though
Hebrew, if it comes to a theological debate may be more relevant. May I say my Jewish granny shopped in English But read the scriptures in Hebrew
 
I am Episcopalian and attended Mass every chance I got. Did not take communion except in places where I asked beforehand if it was okay. In Santiago there may be an Anglican presence. There was a thread on forum about it months ago.

Buen camino.

That thread was in reference to an initiative to look at the possibility of an Anglican presence in Santiago. I have been following this carefully and have heard nothing since then. AFAIK there is no Anglican presence in Santiago unless you are there on one of the occasions when a group of Anglican pilgrims might turn up with a priest or bishop. There are Orthodox services in Santiago but, unless you have Greek or Romanian, that won't be of much help to you.
 
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That thread was in reference to an initiative to look at the possibility of an Anglican presence in Santiago. I have been following this carefully and have heard nothing since then. AFAIK there is no Anglican presence in Santiago unless you are there on one of the occasions when a group of Anglican pilgrims might turn up with a priest or bishop. There are Orthodox services in Santiago but, unless you have Greek or Romanian, that won't be of much help to you.

You are right @oursonpolaire ; we just met with friends who are Anglican and who would be involved in an Anglican center in Santiago once/ if it gets up and running, and it's not taking any concrete shape just yet. The closest Anglican churches for now would be in La Coruña or Pontevedra.
 
Call me a simple Christian ! ......I had no idea of all the rules that the churches both RC and Protestant have made for those able to receive "the body and blood of Christ". But by simply googling it they are there.

Also from reading a Roman Catholic is not meant to take communion in a Protestant church and vice versa.

If I ran the churches everyone would be warmly welcome regardless....but that is just my opinion.

Excellent forum discussion here....if it makes us think.
 
Also from reading a Roman Catholic is not meant to take communion in a Protestant church and vice versa.
I think some Lutherans can; Missouri Synod if memory serves. Luther may have started it all, but may have been the first to reconcile!!;)
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
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Thanks, all. Not wanting to weigh in on the "did Jesus speak Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek/Latin/Esperanto" debate, but I do have several final questions since I started this post: what do Anglican residents and volunteers in Santiago do? Are there regular visits from clergy willing to administer the sacraments, if only one knows where to go? Chapel/worship spaces where one might find a visiting priest of this tradition?

Or am I left in some sort of medieval penitent mode, hiding out in the back pew of the Cathedral while a service unfolds in a language I do not understand and a priest with whom I am not in communion elevates a host that I can receive through my eyes, but not in my body? (Sorry, it sounds a bit maudlin, but that was the style a mere 500 years ago..)
 
Seriously, when I volunteered for two weeks in Rabanal del Camino the Benedictine priests allowed we Protestant hospitaleros to both attend Mass and receive the sacrament of communion. Also, download the Mass/Misa with a side-by-side English/Spanish translation and read along with service. Think about shooting a PM to Natefaith or SYates both reside in Santiago.
 
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Lol at
He wouldn't speak in acronyms and if he did they'd be in Hebrew ;)

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tFighterPilot Senior Member. Israel - Hebrew. מה ישוע היה עושה. Ma Yeshua haya oseh. tFighterPilot, Oct 4, 2007.
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Feb 26, 2001 - The word "Yeshoo" is the Hebrew way to say Jesus in the religious meaning. It might be better to say "Ve-ma Yeshoo ...
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The name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous, from which, through the Latin Iesus, comes the English spelling Jesus. The Hebrew spelling Yeshua (ישוע) appears in some later books of the Hebrew Bible.

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Are you sure of this.:rolleyes:
 
Thanks, all. Not wanting to weigh in on the "did Jesus speak Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek/Latin/Esperanto" debate, but I do have several final questions since I started this post: what do Anglican residents and volunteers in Santiago do? Are there regular visits from clergy willing to administer the sacraments, if only one knows where to go? Chapel/worship spaces where one might find a visiting priest of this tradition?

Or am I left in some sort of medieval penitent mode, hiding out in the back pew of the Cathedral while a service unfolds in a language I do not understand and a priest with whom I am not in communion elevates a host that I can receive through my eyes, but not in my body? (Sorry, it sounds a bit maudlin, but that was the style a mere 500 years ago..)

To answer your Question: There is no Anglican Chaplaincy in Santiago and no provision of Eucharist or sacraments to those of that tradition.

I'm actually not convinced that there would be sufficient numbers attending to sustain a ministry - rent and salary for the priest etc, unless this was underwritten some how. I've been proposing a 6 month pilot for some time but alas no ministerial volunteers.
 
To answer your Question: There is no Anglican Chaplaincy in Santiago and no provision of Eucharist or sacraments to those of that tradition.

I'm actually not convinced that there would be sufficient numbers attending to sustain a ministry - rent and salary for the priest etc, unless this was underwritten some how. I've been proposing a 6 month pilot for some time but alas no ministerial volunteers.

Your point about numbers is probably true when thinking specifically of Anglicans. However as @rappahannock_rev noted above Anglican sacraments and worship are open to Christians of many different denominations and an Anglican priest could therefore offer a chaplaincy service to a far wider community. I think it unlikely that an Anglican priest who was interested in serving pilgrims in Santiago would see the scope of their ministry in narrow denominational terms.
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
Sing dumb. Know what is your heart's truth. Be in communion. And listen to The Deer's Cry sung by Rita Connolly.
 
Your point about numbers is probably true when thinking specifically of Anglicans. However as @rappahannock_rev noted above Anglican sacraments and worship are open to Christians of many different denominations and an Anglican priest could therefore offer a chaplaincy service to a far wider community. I think it unlikely that an Anglican priest who was interested in serving pilgrims in Santiago would see the scope of their ministry in narrow denominational terms.
I didn't say Anglicans Only I said I doubted that there would be sufficient numbers attending ( of all denominations) to sustain the ministry. This is based on my experience of providing Mass in English in the Cathedral. But the only real way of knowing is to try it!
 
... Anglican sacraments and worship are open to Christians of many different denominations and an Anglican priest could therefore offer a chaplaincy service to a far wider community. I think it unlikely that an Anglican priest who was interested in serving pilgrims in Santiago would see the scope of their ministry in narrow denominational terms.

Catholics would basically excommunicate themselves by actively participating in such rites, or at the very least deprive themselves of the sacramental Grace

The personal ideology of such even very well-meaning Anglican ministers just does not vanish away the religious duties of Catholics.

Clearly though, the generosity in the Spirit that you refer to is a manifestation of the (genuinely) ecumenical desire for reunification from multiple groups of Christians, and the Camino is and BTW always has been a very strong manifestation of that desire. This is a reason why it is perhaps the only deeply Catholic pilgrimage where non-Catholics are so overtly, warmly, and honestly welcomed in the genuine spirit of pilgrimage, and the genuine Camino spirit.

Not an ecumenism of the dogmatics or the ideology, but an ecumenism of the hiking boot, and the surrender to that which gathers us rather than separates us.
 
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Or am I left in some sort of medieval penitent mode, hiding out in the back pew of the Cathedral while a service unfolds in a language I do not understand and a priest with whom I am not in communion elevates a host that I can receive through my eyes, but not in my body? (Sorry, it sounds a bit maudlin, but that was the style a mere 500 years ago..)

For the most part, people will welcome you in with open arms.

Go to mass in the Cathedral, pray (or don't), enjoy the ceremony, carry on regardless. Seriously as long as you don't do something overly stupid, use common sense and display some respect for others, everything will be fine.
 
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Hi sjf...very interesting question. I'm not a RC but Anglican by birth and choice. I took Mass every time I could on the CF even when it was announced it was only for RC's. But I walked with non RC's that attended services but didn't take Mass.

So I believe that the choice is yours.

I read the thread that Laurie suggested that has good discussion in it.

Glad that you shared this. By no fault of my own I was baptized and confirmed (high) Anglican but have spent half of my adult life living in RC countries where no "Protestant" church existed or which I identified with. My mom is RC and has always encouraged me to partake in any RC service I attended. She continued to urge me to attend mass daily on my Camino. So I too attended all masses possible on my recent Camino and took communion. To the RCs out there the Anglican mass prayers are almost or identical to the RC mass prayers.
 
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The rules are clear. No discussion about religion. We allow some leeway so members can gain information. When it gets to the stage that people start expressing opinions about religion, the line is crossed. I have edited some posts.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
The rules are clear. No discussion about religion. We allow some leeway so members can gain information. When it gets to the stage that people start expressing opinions about religion, the line is crossed. I have edited some posts.

Thank you.
 
I don't agree, the priest has no authority to do so he is doing it on his own and against Cannon law.
Well, I suggest you read the rest of the thread and take it up with those who,say he does and are much more knowledgeable than me on the mater. I have nothing more to say on the topic than what I wrote in my first post.
 
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I'm looking forward to a few days on the Frances in October. I'm a Christian and I see this very much as a pilgrimage, but I'm not a Roman Catholic. What's the routine for non-RC pilgrims and church services? Are the services for other denominations anywhere? Specifically, Anglican/Episcopalian. Or should I just plan to go to the services in the local churches?

If you traveled the Camino as a Christian pilgrim but not a Roman Catholic, what did you do for mass?
You can attend Mass at the English Chapel (Mass in English), in the Catherdral. You must cross your arms across your chest to indicate that you are not catholic, and you will receive a blessing from the Priest instead of the 'body or blood.' Its a lovely, intimate small service which should not be missed.
 
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Hi sjf,
We are not Catholic, but attended mass in many towns. We simply did not go to forward to take communion. We still received a pilgrim's blessing and took the opportunity to pray. We were always welcomed warmly. In many of the small communities, older church members would sit nearby and helped us keep up with the standing, sitting, singing, readings. (My step-mother in the US does the same thing at her parish church to help make worshippers with new faces feel welcome.) Although the Mass format in each location was the same, each one felt different and special because of the place and the people. If you stay in some of the church sponsored albergues, you'll likely have an opportunity to participate if you feel comfortable doing so. My husband was asked to bring forward the "prayers of the pilgrims" at Carrion de los Condes even though we are not Catholic and he speaks no Spanish.
Janet
 
I'm looking forward to a few days on the Frances in October. I'm a Christian and I see this very much as a pilgrimage, but I'm not a Roman Catholic. What's the routine for non-RC pilgrims and church services? Are the services for other denominations anywhere? Specifically, Anglican/Episcopalian. Or should I just plan to go to the services in the local churches?

If you traveled the Camino as a Christian pilgrim but not a Roman Catholic, what did you do for mass?
Hi Terry here from NZ I am 68 catholic since birth and I have only come back to the faith in the last year and talk to god on a daily basis. BUT and it is a big BUT.
I still struggle to get something meaningful out of the mass so dont feel disconnected because your not a Catholic. The old Catholic god of thunder has gone we now have a new god based on love for all people.I know this must sound like a sermon but this is how I feel.
So you are on the camino you have committed your self to the cause of the camino and you are christian. To me YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO PARTAKE OF THE MASS ENJOY THE CEREMONY AND SEE IF YOU CAN GET SOMETHING FROM IT. I hope it works for you as I hope it will for me one day.
Good luck and God bless.
 
Catholics would basically excommunicate themselves by actively participating in such rites, or at the very least deprive themselves of the sacramental Grace

The personal ideology of such even very well-meaning Anglican ministers just does not vanish away the religious duties of Catholics.

Clearly though, the generosity in the Spirit that you refer to is a manifestation of the (genuinely) ecumenical desire for reunification from multiple groups of Christians, and the Camino is and BTW always has been a very strong manifestation of that desire. This is a reason why it is perhaps the only deeply Catholic pilgrimage where non-Catholics are so overtly, warmly, and honestly welcomed in the genuine spirit of pilgrimage, and the genuine Camino spirit.

Not an ecumenism of the dogmatics or the ideology, but an ecumenism of the hiking boot, and the surrender to that which gathers us rather than separates us.

"An ecumenism of the hiking boot...." I like that! :)
 
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Thanks, all. Not wanting to weigh in on the "did Jesus speak Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek/Latin/Esperanto" debate, but I do have several final questions since I started this post: what do Anglican residents and volunteers in Santiago do? Are there regular visits from clergy willing to administer the sacraments, if only one knows where to go? Chapel/worship spaces where one might find a visiting priest of this tradition?

Or am I left in some sort of medieval penitent mode, hiding out in the back pew of the Cathedral while a service unfolds in a language I do not understand and a priest with whom I am not in communion elevates a host that I can receive through my eyes, but not in my body? (Sorry, it sounds a bit maudlin, but that was the style a mere 500 years ago..)

If you're willing to 1) go to a service in Spanish and 2) go to a non-Anglican church you can attend the Centro Cristiano in Santiago located right by the train station. Attendance is about 100 every Sunday and every first Sunday of the month they do communion as part of the worship service. It's a welcoming place with several nationalities in attendance every week (mostly from Spain and South America, but there are always a few native English speakers as well with students and English auxiliary teachers attending). It wouldn't be high church but it might be a rich experience of fellowship nonetheless if you feel up for it :).

Enjoy all the planning and Buen Camino!
Faith
 
I too, am a Christian, and Baha'i. Before returning to CF next year, I plan to visit our local RC church and enter into a conversation with our local Priest on this topic as well as a few others.

Will I convert? I doubt it but I am open to offering myself as a local representative / delegate, a bridge between Houses of One God, go on pilgrimage and report back to the Priest of my experiences as few from my town have ever heard of the Camino and even fewer have experienced it.

With deepest respect, these comments are the views of the writer and no one else, and take full responsibility for them, personally. They are not made to esuage the thoughts or beliefs of anyone else, including the party that has started this thread. Should this post be found to be outside the rules of the Forum, please advise and I will remove immediately.
 
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I don't agree, the priest has no authority to do so he is doing it on his own and against Cannon law.

I am aware of a parish along one of the chemins in France where the priest told me that his bishop indicated that he is to use his prudent judgement to communicate non-Catholic Christian pilgrims. On ploughing through the Codex, I found that Canon 844 was his likely authority. There's actually quite a few (lengthy) threads on this topic elsewhere on the forum.

I have observed in Spanish churches along the way that there are often parishioners who do not communicate, but participate fully otherwise. But I have always counselled pilgrims, RC or otherwise, to attend masses in churches along the way-- it is a way to enter into a community in a vertical manner, to participate in the life of the pueblo well outside the tourist mode, to take time to decompress away from the intensity of the trail and the sometimes hectic and busy aspect of pilgrim and albergue life, and to appreciate an important aspect of the life of the countries which are our hosts. Common sense and respect should be our guides, and others have made useful suggestions (but do note that the crossed-arms approach will only rarely be understood off the Camino Francese). Spanish and French parishioners have astonished me with the generosity and warmth of their welcome to pilgrims, and pilgrims who have experienced difficulties in their church life in their homes will perhaps appreciate this more than anything.
 
It is the role and responsibility of local Bishops to interpret many of the laws of the Roman Catholic Church so that they better address the pastoral needs in their area. The issue of non Catholics participating in communion at Catholic mass is complex. In 1998 the Bishops of Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland agreed the attached document - One Bread, One Body.
It makes the point that the laws of the Catholic Church should not be taken in isolation but rather the whole tapestry should be surveyed. Many Bishops also understand that the spirit of the Law is as important as the letter. The attached document was ground breaking and of course thinking has now moved on twenty years.
Therefore it is no surprise that there is different practice in different places.
If people attending Mass are unsure of whether or not they are welcome to take communion simply ask the priest.
 

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Good morning-- This has been an interesting Sunday morning topic for me. A few thoughts-- I am trying not to step over the line and be religious here, I am also trying to be brief.

--Once, somewhere past Sarria, we walked though a village where an evangelical group had set up a kitchen. Food and drink and information about becoming a christian were offered. They were very kind people--I can't remember exactly where it was... but I did wonder why the RC church didn't do something like that. It was in early April, just before Easter 2015. Does anyone know where or who this group is?

-- Many American protestant churches call themselves "Bible believing" churches, meaning that their faith is grounded on and focused by their understanding and interpretation of the Bible. RC Christians believe that the mass and transubstantiation is the "source and summit of their christian life".

--Everyone is welcome at mass and to go into a church to pray or simply look about. The artwork in the churches will take your breath away. The small churches are not so grand, but reflect the communities who live there in a beautiful way. -- You can light a candle too.
 
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I too, am a Christian, and Baha'i. Before returning to CF next year, I plan to visit our local RC church and enter into a conversation with our local Priest on this topic as well as a few others.

Will I convert? I doubt it but I am open to offering myself as a local representative / delegate, a bridge between Houses of One God, go on pilgrimage and report back to the Priest of my experiences as few from my town have ever heard of the Camino and even fewer have experienced it.

With deepest respect, these comments are the views of the writer and no one else, and take full responsibility for them, personally. They are not made to esuage the thoughts or beliefs of anyone else, including the party that has started this thread. Should this post be found to be outside the rules of the Forum, please advise and I will remove immediately.

You might try talking with a few priests-- They are very different person to person. (Parishes are different too.) I'd also set up an appointment in advance, as they are busy busy people.
 
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In my Pilgrim’s Credential the last sentence on the ID-page reads: ”La paz de Dios esté con todos y mantenga la Esperanza del Peregrino para bien de la Cristianidad.”

My bad Spanish and a little Google-help translates it into: “May the peace of God be with all and keep the Hope of the Pilgrim for the good of Christianity.”

Nothing about Catholicism or Protestantism, only Christianity.
 
In my Pilgrim’s Credential the last sentence on the ID-page reads: ”La paz de Dios esté con todos y mantenga la Esperanza del Peregrino para bien de la Cristianidad.”
Nothing about Catholicism or Protestantism, only Christianity.
You are comfusing the local catholic churches that happen to be on the Camino with what the Santiago Cathedral may want this pilgrimage to be. Sure, walk. Anyone can. But communion is a separate thing, Camino or not.
 
erm, it's likely to be recognised pretty much everywhere, actually

alas our kilometrages vary on this point. I have had clergy in Ireland, France, and Spain, express to me their perplexity over this. I suspect that the practice is spreading and that it will likely be well understood in a few years but in the meanwhile pilgrims should expect to often experience puzzlement on the part of clerics.

Still, if I could only get some funding (and perhaps a research assistant or two), I would readily interview clerics along various caminos and present my findings!
 
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You are comfusing the local catholic churches that happen to be on the Camino with what the Santiago Cathedral may want this pilgrimage to be. Sure, walk. Anyone can. But communion is a separate thing, Camino or not.

Point taken :)
 
we really only have rules when sense and love run out
 
Posts on personal beliefs and the validity of certain religious practices continue to require deletion.
The moderator staff has allowed great discretion in allowing the discussion because of the interest of both Catholics and Non-Catholics in the matter of Communion.

The thread will be closed if the posts violating the rules continue.

Please adhere to the forum rules in this matter.

Thanks for understanding.
 
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(Note that a quote from a deleted post has been removed)

Welcome to the forum! Of course you will be welcome, whatever your faith, as long as you are equally tolerant and welcoming of others. This thread is a somewhat esoteric discussion of subtle differences in practice, that is interesting to a few people. It is probably best to just ignore it if you are disturbed by it and don't need or want to know about the different communion practices you might encounter,

I find it quite interesting to read and learn! This forum expands my world of acquaintances, and this thread allows me to learn about church practices that would otherwise puzzle me on the Camino. I hope that the moderators will let it continue, as I think that most people have been careful to respect each other.
 
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Posts on personal beliefs and the validity of certain religious practices continue to require deletion.
The moderator staff has allowed great discretion in allowing the discussion because of the interest of both Catholics and Non-Catholics in the matter of Communion.

The thread will be closed if the posts violating the rules continue.

Please adhere to the forum rules in this matter.

Thanks for understanding.

Thank you for this clarification, as one's attempts to remain within the boundaries of the forum rules for these questions may sometimes fail ... :p
 
alas our kilometrages vary on this point. I have had clergy in Ireland, France, and Spain, express to me their perplexity over this. I suspect that the practice is spreading and that it will likely be well understood in a few years but in the meanwhile pilgrims should expect to often experience puzzlement on the part of clerics.

Still, if I could only get some funding (and perhaps a research assistant or two), I would readily interview clerics along various caminos and present my findings!

I've seen it recognized here in NY State, and in Maryland.
 
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I've seen it recognized here in NY State, and in Maryland.

Yes. I didn't want to get into too much discussion on this, as it's a bit of a tangent. AFAIK it is a very anglophone North American practice-- I have not seen it in French-speaking RC churches in Canada.

It is getting to be recognized on the Camino Francese owing to the considerable numbers of US and Canadian pilgrims using it. In any event, we would be sensible to follow the advice given by several forum members to go with the flow of local practice, and be considerate of local feelings. It will all work out. The Camino is really rather a big place.
 
Yes. I didn't want to get into too much discussion on this, as it's a bit of a tangent. AFAIK it is a very anglophone North American practice-- I have not seen it in French-speaking RC churches in Canada.

It is getting to be recognized on the Camino Francese owing to the considerable numbers of US and Canadian pilgrims using it. In any event, we would be sensible to follow the advice given by several forum members to go with the flow of local practice, and be considerate of local feelings. It will all work out. The Camino is really rather a big place.

It is neither a practice here in Belgium. People who do not want to go to communion just keep sitting.
 
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Good conversation [we are never too senior to learn]. Team Sailor have already received the blessings from our daughter and we are good to go. Hitting our church [camino] in just seven weeks. For those caminantes currently on the camino [and for those getting ready to get underway] buena suerte, y que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.
 
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Yes. I didn't want to get into too much discussion on this, as it's a bit of a tangent. AFAIK it is a very anglophone North American practice-- I have not seen it in French-speaking RC churches in Canada.
That would explain why I said I didn't understand what that is all about. Have only learned avout this practice on this forum. Never seen here at home, in Spain off Camino (mind you, even on Camino), South America. Since all in attendance are blessed at the end of the mass there really is no need to do this. Sitting quietly in prayer, reflection, os what I have seen.
 
Anyone is certainly welcomed to attend Catholic masses on the camino (or any place for that matter ). Common sense says to be respectful in any church or holy place, but please go in and see it all. People have all sorts of opinions on the reception of holy communion, but the fact is that for catholics communion is the reception of the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus. It is not a memorial for us. So if you do not believe that it is actually Christ it is respectful not to receive communion. But, you know, that is up to you. I loved having lots of perigrinos at mass, catholic or not, it was neat. Bien camino!
 
Churches, services and masses are open to all. Pilgrim blessings are open to all. If you approach with respect you will receive respect.
 
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I'm looking forward to a few days on the Frances in October. I'm a Christian and I see this very much as a pilgrimage, but I'm not a Roman Catholic. What's the routine for non-RC pilgrims and church services? Are the services for other denominations anywhere? Specifically, Anglican/Episcopalian. Or should I just plan to go to the services in the local churches?

If you traveled the Camino as a Christian pilgrim but not a Roman Catholic, what did you do for mass?
sjf, I have been following the conversation you began. Because of not wishing to violate forum rules I have refrained from giving either opinion or information. If I could find a way to pm I could send you an article by a prominent and well respected Irish theologian that might help you with your question. I tried once to pm someone but it is still sitting despondently in its box!
 
@kirkie (and anyone who is having trouble) to use the PM facility on the forum - click on your inbox and "start a new conversation". Fill in the username of the person you wish to message, fill in the conversation subject, write your message, then under your text, press the blue bar with "start a conversation". Maybe you omitted the last? It is easy to do.

An alternate way of doing the same thing is to click on the avatar of the person you want to message, and in the middle of the little avatar box that comes up you should see "start a conversation". Click on that and follow the sequence above.

PM with arrow.jpg
 
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@kirkie (and anyone who is having trouble) to use the PM facility on the forum - click on your inbox and "start a new conversation". Fill in the username of the person you wish to message, fill in the conversation subject, write your message, then under your text, press the blue bar with "start a conversation". Maybe you omitted the last? It is easy to do.

An alternate way of doing the same thing is to click on the avatar of the person you want to message, and in the middle of the little avatar box that comes up you should see "start a conversation". Click on that and follow the sequence above.

View attachment 35474
Thank you for your help. I have sent a message to someone, and am waiting for a reply. Maybe I will send you one also, double test!
 
And yet another interesting thread. Pilgrim blessings are an integral part of the camino and are generally ecumenical but communion is not. My practice as a non-catholic who has worked in catholic institutions for over 30 years is that I would never compromise a priest by taking communion without first getting his permission.
And can I add, I never knew about the crossed arms. Soooo happy to have learned about crossed arms.
 
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Midtown Manhattan abounds with tourists without and within church. Therefore, the priests at my former Episcopal parish extend the offer for non-baptized Christians, and non-Christians to approach altar, cross arms to receive a blessing. I find invitation both moving and inclusive.
 
While on the Camino I have met a number of people for whom this is such a deeply important, meaningful and, therefore, potentially controversial topic. In fact, there are a few folks I have met for whom the relationship with the church , and how and to whom the church extends it's welcome, is a source of significant pain and confusion.

There is, of course, a fairly straight up, doctrinal answer about communion: if one is Roman Catholic, or part of a tradition in full communion (you likely know who you are) with the Roman Catholic Church then it's pretty clear. There are circumstances in which Roman Catholics who are otherwise in good standing may not receive the sacrament of holy communion (you also likely know who you are).

So many of us who are Catholics or non-Catholics, Christians or non-Christians experience the Camino as intensely communal, those for whom sacrament becomes part of our daily walk; the Camino explodes with meaning (and, therefore, I will go out on a limb here and call this the presence of the holy, even the Holy One). Some of those outside the Catholic communion feel drawn into the mass, to come forward with other pilgrims.

A cold beer shared with a fellow pilgrim, an attentive ear, an act of kindness received or given, a long stretch of road when one is confronted with oneself and ones own thoughts (and history), a lively, honest conversation, might end up being an experience of the transcendent, dare I say, a sacrament. Going to mass is one more way some of us Pilgrims of all religious (and non-religious) stripes try to stay open, to be mindful. And mindfulness is key, in my estimation.

A very elderly priest who seemed to be shrinking before our eyes spoke softly, barely audibly, into the microphone in front of a standing-room-only crowd at the pilgrim's mass in Roncevalles last April. The old priest said, "If you desire to be at peace with God, at peace with your neighbor and at peace with yourself, you are welcome at the table." It was an offer few, if any, refused.
 
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You might try talking with a few priests-- They are very different person to person. (Parishes are different too.) I'd also set up an appointment in advance, as they are busy busy people.

Appointments have been made with two priests in two parishes. i will see what happens with these before taking it further. Also, I have lots of time to put this together. And maybe, just maybe, a precedent can be created.
 
I am not a Christian, but I found it sad that many of the very beautiful, ancient churches are rarely being used (in some cases, even opened) in some of the small villages along the Camino. Religious participation has declined a lot in Spain, and of course the populations in many of these towns have declined, too.

I'm pretty sure I told this story here before (but since when will that stop me from telling it again?). Between Santiago and Finisterre, I stayed in a village that was celebrating Fiesta de San Juan. The people there invited the pilgrims staying in the albergue to join them; eating grilled sardines, jumping over the fire after making a wish, etc. It was really fun. An elderly lady told me that there would be Mass the next day in their small 12th century church, as a priest from another region was coming to conduct the services. The church was rarely opened, and only for holidays or weddings.

It looked like there might be only a dozen or so local people who would attend, so I needled and cajoled the other pilgrims to forego their early start in the morning and join the local folks at mass. It was a beautiful church and attending the service was also a way to show respect and appreciation to the people who had shared their customs with us and let us into their lives.
 
Hope this helps this interesting debate...
The Catholic religion is the religion of the Catholic Church—i.e., that group of churches in communion with the pope. If a group isn’t in communion with the pope, it isn’t part of the Catholic Church.

Within the Catholic Church there are a number of individual churches, sometimes called rites. One of these is the Roman rite or Roman church. It includes most of the Catholics in the Western world. A Roman Catholic is a Catholic who is a member of the Roman rite.

There are many Catholics in the East who are not Roman Catholics, such as Maronite Catholics, Ukrainian Catholics, and Chaldean Catholics. These are all in communion with the pope, but they are not members of the Roman rite, so they are not Roman Catholics.

The Roman rite is not stricter than these other rights. They are equal. They all teach the same faith; it is only local customs that are different among them.
 
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Sorry Bill but that is a little too simple and before a herd of irate Anglicans get stuck into you along with a load of Lutherans etc Feel that you may be applying the term as indeed many Roman Catholics do. The Catholic Church is much larger than the Roman Catholic Church that you described, and relates to those Christians who hold many ancient beliefs in common to the degree that they recognise each others baptism etc. I do hope that this circumvents an argument which takes an important subject and brilliant debate off air
 

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