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Now I understand...

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I wander and look specifically for "cafe con leche"! I'm not able to duplicate it anywhere...well, almost nowhere. When not in Spain I am partial to Kirkland's Italian roast French pressed with lots of cream and a tad of sugar!
 
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jozero

Been there, going again...
Camino(s) past & future
CF x 3
I look specifically for "cafe con leche"! I'm not able to duplicate it anywhere...well, almost nowhere. I am partial to Kirkland's Italian roast French pressed with lots of cream and a tad of sugar!
I think our problem on this side of the pond is not as much the coffee as it is the milk... Hard to replicate the wonderful, flavourful creaminess of European milk!
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I think our problem on this side of the pond is not as much the coffee as it is the milk... Hard to replicate the wonderful, flavourful creaminess of European milk!
Bingo! I think you are right. We do not have the thick "double cream" you can get in the UK and EU...maybe their cows are different.😅
 

Brissy

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012) (2018)
I don’t drink coffee, and drink tea black, so can’t comment on what the milk is like on Camino in these beverages. However, I do like milk with cereal and I must say that I have found it difficult to find fresh milk in Europe. Although it is available in the UK in the refrigerated section of the supermarket, milk is mostly sold as UHT in the rest of Western Europe. I Have found fresh milk occasionally, but it is not widespread.
What have others experienced?
 

Via2010

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
06/07 & 12 Camino Francés, 08-10 Via de la Plata, 13/14 & 17 Camino Portugués, 18 Camino Primitivo
I must say that I have found it difficult to find fresh milk in Europe. Although it is available in the UK in the refrigerated section of the supermarket, milk is mostly sold as UHT in the rest of Western Europe. I Have found fresh milk occasionally, but it is not widespread.
What have others experienced?
I am from Germany, and fresh milk is available in every supermarket there, even with Aldi and Lidl. And I can remember, that even in Italy, 30 years ago, we bought fresh milk in a small village supermarket and were advised to put it "subito in refrigerato, subito!"
But you have to look into the fridge, it will not be exposed in the shelves and it certainly is not delivered from door to door as it used to be in the UK.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2006,08,09,11,12(2),13(2),14,16(2),18(2) Aragones 11,12,VDLP 11,13,Lourdes 12,Malaga 16,Port 06
Bingo! I think you are right. We do not have the thick "double cream" you can get in the UK and EU...maybe their cows are different.😅
I don't think the cows are different.
But I DO think the cows are TREATED differently.
Coming from a farming family, I'm horrified at the feedlot mentality in the USA for both beef and milk cows.
They never see a green blade of grass and live sad, miserable lives, stuck so close together in mud and manure up to their knees.

After much of California had gone to feedlots, we'd drive up to Oregon and my grandmother would always look at the fat cows out in the green pastures and say, "Oh! The cows look so happy here!"

I believe we ARE what we eat.
Not only is the milk fresh in Europe, it's happy milk from well-treated animals.

I only buy grass fed milk and meat in the USA, despite the extra cost.
But in Europe, I don't worry so much about it.
Seems most of their food is still clean - the money grubbers haven't yet gotten their hands on the entire food supply.

Oh, don't get me started! :😆:

Anyway, I agree, it's the MILK!
It's also the BREAD that I can eat in Europe that I cannot eat in the USA.
 

Diem

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo (2016)
I don't drink coffee either but I do drink tea. Every rest stop I order a "te con leche". Sometimes they give me coffee, sometimes it's a whole cup of boiling milk with a tea bag, or if I'm really unlucky it's a cup of boiling milk with a herbal tea bag. Ugh.

But these things are important so I learned to break it down by asking for hot water and revealing my own tea bag. Then ask for a little "leche fria". :)
 

Chris Gi

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Did April through June 2018 from Pamplona to Santiago.
2020 May or end of September - NO!
2021 ?
Bingo! I think you are right. We do not have the thick "double cream" you can get in the UK and EU...maybe their cows are different.😅
The cows and the grass they eat. In Jersey and Guernsey (Channel Islands) the milk, cream and butter is wonderfully rich and a creamy yellow...a combination of feed and breed.
 

Via2010

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
06/07 & 12 Camino Francés, 08-10 Via de la Plata, 13/14 & 17 Camino Portugués, 18 Camino Primitivo
As you can get excellent coffee from almost every bar in Spain, Portugal and Italy I think the secret is not the milk, but it is the fact, that they brew lots of coffee there everyday which adds a special "patina" to the machine and is responsible for the excellent taste. Use the same machine, the same coffee-powder and even better drinking water from the tap in Germany but you will only on very rare occasions enjoy a similar good cup of coffee.
 

notion900

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
>
I DO think the cows are TREATED differently
Not so sure about this. Cows in the UK are normally outside and come in for milking. I've seen ganaderias in Spain where the cows are chained up for most of the day indoors in the milking parlour and can barely move. Also without fresh straw to lie on, just compacted shit. This isn't just on an industrial scale either, it happens a lot on small farms.
 

Duane

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2019 Camino Frances
I wander and look specifically for "cafe con leche"! I'm not able to duplicate it anywhere...well, almost nowhere. When not in Spain I am partial to Kirkland's Italian roast French pressed with lots of cream and a tad of sugar!
Oh............it's the COFFEE! It's different. Your cafe con leche is likely made from torrefacto coffee. Columbian beans that are double roasted with sugar which increases antioxidants in the coffee. I had my first cup in the early 1970s. Back then it was usually served in a glass and I have never found anytime like it.
Consider it an art form. Every spaniard begins the day with the best cup of coffee in the world. Maybe that's why Spain is such a great country.
B3AD237A-D1F0-400D-A6F6-3724CA18D700_1_105_c.jpeg
 

Stivandrer

Perambulating & Curious. Rep stravaiging offender
Camino(s) past & future
I´ve got Camino plans until 2042,
- or till I fall flat on my face, whichever comes first !!
I don't think the cows are different.
But I DO think the cows are TREATED differently.
Coming from a farming family, I'm horrified at the feedlot mentality in the USA for both beef and milk cows.
They never see a green blade of grass and live sad, miserable lives, stuck so close together in mud and manure up to their knees.

After much of California had gone to feedlots, we'd drive up to Oregon and my grandmother would always look at the fat cows out in the green pastures and say, "Oh! The cows look so happy here!"

I believe we ARE what we eat.
Not only is the milk fresh in Europe, it's happy milk from well-treated animals.

I only buy grass fed milk and meat in the USA, despite the extra cost.
But in Europe, I don't worry so much about it.
Seems most of their food is still clean - the money grubbers haven't yet gotten their hands on the entire food supply.

Oh, don't get me started! :😆:

Anyway, I agree, it's the MILK!
It's also the BREAD that I can eat in Europe that I cannot eat in the USA.
The cows here are mad, maybe more frolicking like, when they are let out in April after our very wet winter season, and the only time they will be bothered to act like roaming bisons on the prairie !!
check this out:
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
The cows here are mad, maybe more frolicking like, when they are let out in April after our very wet winter season, and the only time they will be bothered to act like roaming bisons on the prairie !!
check this out:
Awww, so cute...I'm kind of surprised their udders don't fall off! 😊
 

zrexer

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2014, 15,16 & 19 Camino Frances
2017 Camino Portuguese
2018 Camino Primitivo
2020 Camino Del Norte
Café Con Leche = pilgrim rocket fuel. Café Con Leche's until it is a decent hour to start drinking vino tinto...
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Café Con Leche = pilgrim rocket fuel. Café Con Leche's until it is a decent hour to start drinking vino tinto...
So true! My son says I can walk much faster after a cup of cafe con leche!
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Currently on a "Virtual" Camino and striding out across Castile y Leon!
I am from Germany, and fresh milk is available in every supermarket there, even with Aldi and Lidl. And I can remember, that even in Italy, 30 years ago, we bought fresh milk in a small village supermarket and were advised to put it "subito in refrigerato, subito!"
But you have to look into the fridge, it will not be exposed in the shelves and it certainly is not delivered from door to door as it used to be in the UK.
Ah, there's "fresh" milk and there's "unpasteurised" or "raw" milk - I think raw milk which hasn't had its bacteria count lowered by heating might sour quicker so there's more of a need to get it into a fridge quickly?
 

Brissy

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012) (2018)
I am from Germany, and fresh milk is available in every supermarket there, even with Aldi and Lidl. And I can remember, that even in Italy, 30 years ago, we bought fresh milk in a small village supermarket and were advised to put it "subito in refrigerato, subito!"
But you have to look into the fridge, it will not be exposed in the shelves and it certainly is not delivered from door to door as it used to be in the UK.
Oh, then maybe you can still get it in Germany. When was the last time you were there? I couldn’t find it in France or Belgium two weeks ago, or last year. I am currently living in the UK and each time we go to Europe we self cater, so go looking for milk (yes, in the fridge section) and only occasionally find it, even in Aldi and Lidl.
 

koilife

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF w/ son #1 (2013); Logrono-Leon/Salvador/Primitivo w/ son #2 (2016); Portugues w/ son #3 (2020)
Oh............it's the COFFEE! It's different. Your cafe con leche is likely made from torrefacto coffee.
View attachment 69543
Torrefacto is absolutely part of it. There's a cafe in Santiago (about 15 minute walk outside the old city) that proudly refuses to use it. The owner complains about the flavor because it's not like what they use in Italy.
 

koilife

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF w/ son #1 (2013); Logrono-Leon/Salvador/Primitivo w/ son #2 (2016); Portugues w/ son #3 (2020)
That's another question: What is a decent hour to start drinking vino tinto? No later than noon I suppose.
I take the remnants from the prior night and add it to some juice and have a poor man's sangria for my morning walk. Nice steady supply of energy, especially when the morning starts with a walk to get to breakfast or has a longer window to get to second breakfast.

I came across some Germans who swore by having a beer with breakfast or second breakfast because it was good fuel for walking. They said, "not too much for sleep, but just enough for energy."
 

AlwynWellington

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
please see signature
double cream
As an infrequent buyer of dairy (any food actually) in the northern hemisphere I was at first amused by cream being doubled.

Then I found "single" cream could not be whipped.

So I learned "double" cream was "normal" cream.in other parts of the world.
 

Bob from L.A. !

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francis 2012, 2014, 2016. Camino Norte 2018. Many more to come in my future God willing !
Its all udder nonsence,we all know that Milk comes from Goats.
Why do cows have hooves? Because they lac tose !
Did you hear about the cow who tried to jump over a fence? It was udder devastating !

It's late, I'm tired and I needed a laugh !!!!!!!!! Good night all !!!!!!!!!!
 

Via2010

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
06/07 & 12 Camino Francés, 08-10 Via de la Plata, 13/14 & 17 Camino Portugués, 18 Camino Primitivo
In Germany "fresh" milk is "raw" milk, not treated by heating.
But normally it does not come in glass-bottles, but also in tetra-packs. If you do not read German, you can only distingish it from UHT-milk as it is stored in the fridge-section of the supermarkets, where you find butter, cheese and yoghurt, too.

Maybe it is not widespread in France and Belgium as they prefer to make cheese from it (raw milk cheese is very common there, but not that popular in Germany).
 

Telboyo

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
I intend to leave the UK the day Before Brexit and walkMarch -April 2019 Camino Frances
As an infrequent buyer of dairy (any food actually) in the northern hemisphere I was at first amused by cream being doubled.

Then I found "single" cream could not be whipped.

So I learned "double" cream was "normal" cream.in other parts of the world.
There is single cream, double and whipping cream.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Why do cows have hooves? Because they lac tose !
Did you hear about the cow who tried to jump over a fence? It was udder devastating !

It's late, I'm tired and I needed a laugh !!!!!!!!! Good night all !!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for my first smile 😊 of the day...great little puns while sipping my coffee!☕
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
The only problem I found on the Camino with Coffee was that one could not get a large enough cup of it. I had to wait till I got To Starbucks in Madrid on my way home to get a tall cup.
But you can get the cafe con leche in a very wide cup (not tall). I always stretched my arms out wide like a charade and asked for a grande!
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
There is single cream, double and whipping cream.
I've been to England and it was the double cream I loved in coffee...yum! I wonder why we don't have it in the US...a pity.
 

jozero

Been there, going again...
Camino(s) past & future
CF x 3
Check in at albergue...shower...grocery run...Vino tinto time! Willing to debate this order of priority though...
I'm not disagreeing with the ordering but offering an alternative... stop at tienda to buy wine, albergue, drink some wine, shower, drink more wine, Menu del dia (with wine, naturally) and fall into the abyss of deep sleep and dream of wine.
 

SherlyC

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF Sep, 2018
CP May, 2019
I don’t drink coffee, and drink tea black, so can’t comment on what the milk is like on Camino in these beverages. However, I do like milk with cereal and I must say that I have found it difficult to find fresh milk in Europe. Although it is available in the UK in the refrigerated section of the supermarket, milk is mostly sold as UHT in the rest of Western Europe. I Have found fresh milk occasionally, but it is not widespread.
What have others experienced?
Wow i’m shocked to hear you say you find it difficult to find fresh milk in Europe! Switzerland, France, Italy, Holland, Denmark, all these countries are known for their highest milk quality and thus excellent cheese. Not sure which countries in Europe you are talking about not being able to find fresh milk? Maybe you are looking at mom and pop hole in wall shops?
In Spain the best milk comes from Asturian/Galicia region (north) and you can find high quality fresh milk in the refrigerator. UHT is popular too - many cases when they want to store it longer to shorten the number of trips to the supermarket. Just fyi, i’m a cheese sommelier from Switzerland.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Ingles 2016 Camino Portuguese 2017 Considering Invierno late (2020) In lieu of VdlP (2020)
I don’t drink coffee, and drink tea black, so can’t comment on what the milk is like on Camino in these beverages. However, I do like milk with cereal and I must say that I have found it difficult to find fresh milk in Europe. Although it is available in the UK in the refrigerated section of the supermarket, milk is mostly sold as UHT in the rest of Western Europe. I Have found fresh milk occasionally, but it is not widespread.
What have others experienced?
At one time unpasteurized fresh milk in Europe was a major contributor to the spread of Tuberculosis. My parents generation born in the 1920s/30s were brought up on the idea that the only safe milk was UHT or sterilised milk that in the UK was delivered to the door. This was supplied in a bottle with a red crown cork top that could not be interfered with. Post pasteurization of milk and large scale testing for TB in the European Dairy herds has eliminated the risk but attitudes may have become inherited. When I was growing up in the 60s it was still common to see re top Sterilized milk being delivered. There were some households who would have both Redtop and silver top (pasteurised full fat) milk delivered to the same house!
 

Bob from L.A. !

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francis 2012, 2014, 2016. Camino Norte 2018. Many more to come in my future God willing !
Kirkie - I have to laugh. This is the exact song I thought of the other day when this topic was posted with the opening topic line of "Now I understand" . Thank for posting this.
 

Brissy

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012) (2018)
Wow i’m shocked to hear you say you find it difficult to find fresh milk in Europe! Switzerland, France, Italy, Holland, Denmark, all these countries are known for their highest milk quality and thus excellent cheese. Not sure which countries in Europe you are talking about not being able to find fresh milk? Maybe you are looking at mom and pop hole in wall shops?
In Spain the best milk comes from Asturian/Galicia region (north) and you can find high quality fresh milk in the refrigerator. UHT is popular too - many cases when they want to store it longer to shorten the number of trips to the supermarket. Just fyi, i’m a cheese sommelier from Switzerland.
Yes, I was shocked too. I was sure that fresh milk could be bought in supermarkets in Europe, but I have walked Camino Frances twice, and have travelled to France, Germany and Belgium recently and only found fresh milk in Belgium on one day.
Large supermarkets such as Aldi and Lidl, also mom and pop supermarkets (such as on Camino) did not seem to have fresh milk available to buy.
They did, however, have very good cheese - and bread! So we didn’t starve, just switched to the best available product. Yum!
 
Camino(s) past & future
None yet; perhaps the Portugese (2021?)
Oh, then maybe you can still get it in Germany. When was the last time you were there? I couldn’t find it in France or Belgium two weeks ago, or last year. I am currently living in the UK and each time we go to Europe we self cater, so go looking for milk (yes, in the fridge section) and only occasionally find it, even in Aldi and Lidl.
In Portugal, every grocery store and every supermarket sells various brands of UHT, in full-fat, half-fat, and "magro" skim.That stuff can stay on a shelf until it's opened--then you have to refrigerate it and it lasts about the same length of time as North American milk. I'd guess 95% of the coffee bars use this--probably the full-fat.

A few of the bigger supermarkets also sell a bit of refrigerated milk. Found with the butter in the cooler. But it's really uncommon.

I'd suspect Spain is the same. France--??

Portugal is very proud of their milk. Much of it comes from the Azores.
 

Stivandrer

Perambulating & Curious. Rep stravaiging offender
Camino(s) past & future
I´ve got Camino plans until 2042,
- or till I fall flat on my face, whichever comes first !!
Oh............it's the COFFEE! It's different. Your cafe con leche is likely made from torrefacto coffee. Columbian beans that are double roasted with sugar which increases antioxidants in the coffee. I had my first cup in the early 1970s. Back then it was usually served in a glass and I have never found anytime like it.

thought is was a myth about the antioxodants, but you´re right:


to me the powerful quality is a delicious, dark taste, that I do not get anywhere else than in Spain
 

Diem

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo (2016)
In Spain the best milk comes from Asturian/Galicia region (north) and you can find high quality fresh milk in the refrigerator.
Right. Just because it's served in a box doesn't mean it's UHT. If it's in the fridge, it's fresh. I mean, this isn't just Spain...
 

AlwynWellington

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
please see signature
There is single cream, double and whipping cream.
In your home area, of course.

I understand Einstein said "keep things a simple as possible, but no simpler".

In my home area we have umpteen dozen types of milk.
And keeping Einstein in mind we have only one type of cream, the kind you could make butter from if so minded.
 

Stivandrer

Perambulating & Curious. Rep stravaiging offender
Camino(s) past & future
I´ve got Camino plans until 2042,
- or till I fall flat on my face, whichever comes first !!
I don't know what milk they use, but I've never had a bad café con lech in Spain. Who knows? The ambience, the barista, the machine, the temperature they heat the milk, the beans, the company.
The readiness, the capacity, the inclination to serve a fast cuppa!?
I don´t know either..!

DSCF4162.JPG
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
The readiness, the capacity, the inclination to serve a fast cuppa!?
I don´t know either..!

View attachment 69895nclinat
The photo brings back memories! I saw this same scenario many times on the camino...gearing up for the influx of morning pilgrims, and the locals on their way to work in the cities. They sure know how to balance their act!
 

Sue127

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
French Camino in 2020
I don’t drink coffee, and drink tea black, so can’t comment on what the milk is like on Camino in these beverages. However, I do like milk with cereal and I must say that I have found it difficult to find fresh milk in Europe. Although it is available in the UK in the refrigerated section of the supermarket, milk is mostly sold as UHT in the rest of Western Europe. I Have found fresh milk occasionally, but it is not widespread.
What have others experienced?
I live in France and can ge fresh milf from our local supermarket (and those further away) but the joy of living here is to get it straight from the farm when it is still warm.
 

Sue127

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
French Camino in 2020
Oh, then maybe you can still get it in Germany. When was the last time you were there? I couldn’t find it in France or Belgium two weeks ago, or last year. I am currently living in the UK and each time we go to Europe we self cater, so go looking for milk (yes, in the fridge section) and only occasionally find it, even in Aldi and Lidl.
Definitely available in french supermarkets (even the small ones)
 

chinacat

Veteran Member
and it certainly is not delivered from door to door as it used to be in the UK.
Apparently doorstep delivery has returned to the UK.

It’s to do with eliminating plastics and other non-recyclable packaging, and the switch back to glass bottles (which we have, locally, already).


or, from ‘big business’:

 

Jimliz83

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
First Camino start 23.4.2020
In a lot of Spanish coffee they have a % of torrefacto which is sugar burnt onto coffee beans this is thought to have been popular during the spanish civil as they had a coffee shortage. If you look for 100% coffee in spain you look for 100% Mezcla.most bars wont sell 100% though.
 

Bert45

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
(2003) Francés, (2014) Francés, (2016) Portugués , (2016) Aragonés, (2018) del Norte to Primitivo,
Fresh milk is a thing in the UK. That's why we complain we can't get a decent cup of tea anywhere else.
The reason you can't get a decent cup of tea is not the milk, it's the fact that they don't use boiling water, and their tea bags are probably rubbish too. Their semi-skimmed is just the same as ours - homogenised (alternatively described as micro-filtered).
 

Bert45

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
(2003) Francés, (2014) Francés, (2016) Portugués , (2016) Aragonés, (2018) del Norte to Primitivo,
Definitely available in french supermarkets (even the small ones)
Definitely available in Italian supermarkets (Coop)
 

notion900

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
>
The reason you can't get a decent cup of tea is not the milk, it's the fact that they don't use boiling water, and their tea bags are probably rubbish too. Their semi-skimmed is just the same as ours - homogenised (alternatively described as micro-filtered).
Capputea-no 😭

IMG_2725a copy.jpg
 

4 Eyes

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF from SJPP 14, VDLP from Seville 15, DN&P from Irun 16, Portuguese from Lisbon 17, CF from SJPP 18
Pascual milk in Spain is good. Super on its own or with ColaCao.
 

Bert45

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
(2003) Francés, (2014) Francés, (2016) Portugués , (2016) Aragonés, (2018) del Norte to Primitivo,
Pascual milk is UHT (uperisada)(whole, semi-skimmed or skimmed)(entera, semidesnatada, desnatada). Not to everyone's taste. ['Pascual' is a brand name.]
 

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