Official Pilgrim's Office website

[camino-david]

For those of you who are not aware of the web site for the Pilgrim's Office in Santiago, it is:
http://peregrinossantiago.es/ (edited by Ivar)
This shows the translation of the Latin wording on the Compostela, or certicate you can get on arrival in Santiago, plus other bits of information such as statistics. Incidentally, from January to the end of November this year, 266, 437 pilgrims received the Compostela, and 66 obtained it today 13 Dec. Camino-David

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Hola, the website address for the Pilgrims' Office is:

http://peregrinossantiago.es/

Regards

John

 

[Caminando]

Interesting......the statistics bear out what I (maybe others) have always wondered - why are there so few pilgrims from the UK? The UK doesnt even get a mention and is included in unnamed "Other Countries".

At first I thought it was because of the Reformation and the Protestant tradition in Scotland and England. Then I thought of Germany, the home of Protestantism, but there is a large number of German pilgrims. Holland too, which has long been Protestant, has many pilgs. France had its Revolution, yet there are many French pilgs.

I thought it was maybe because of the British dislike of accepting that they are Europeans; then I remembered Scotland's ancient Continental connections and long Alliance with France, so clearly being European was no problem there. That left only England to ponder about, to no avail.

And of course, nowadays many pilgs have no religion and walk for other reasons, undermining much of my historical musings.

I don't know the answer to this ...any ideas?

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Hi - like you I'm fascinated by this question. Back in September I posted the full list plus some interesting analysis here: http://johnniewalker-santiago.blogspot. ... s-too.html

I'm very interested in the growth of pilgrims numbers in Korea for example - pilgrims from there in the office say "we aren't a religious country but we are very spiritual".

It is also notable that there are more pilgrims from Ireland than the rest of the UK put together. Some people say that is because Ireland is a Catholic country but as you rightly point out what about Germany and Holland - both protestant countries.

My own suspicion is that it ain't the religiousness of a country but is possibly more to do with whether there is a tradition now or in the past of pilgrimage. This is certainly the case in present day Ireland much more so than Scotland, England or Wales. Who knows - but very interesting!

John

 

[vandrefalk]

Well, perhaps not quite fair to call the Netherlands and Germany Protestant countries. Actually Germany is about 60% Christian, and about half of these are Catholics. In the Netherlands, which has had a sharp decline in religious affiliation, Catholicism is the largest single religion and Catholics easily outnumber the Protestants, at 20% and 11% respectively.

 

[nellpilgrim]

Hi - like you I'm fascinated by this question. Back in September I posted the full list plus some interesting analysis here: http://johnniewalker-santiago.blogspot. ... s-too.html

It is also notable that there are more pilgrims from Ireland than the rest of the UK put together. Some people say that is because Ireland is a Catholic country but as you rightly point out what about Germany and Holland - both protestant countries.
My own suspicion is that it ain't the religiousness of a country but is possibly more to do with whether there is a tradition now or in the past of pilgrimage. This is certainly the case in present day Ireland much more so than Scotland, England or Wales. Who knows - but very interesting!
John

I think its both John. Certainly both the notion and the making of Pilgrimage are still current as part of the Irish cultural bedrock-we never forgot it. Even the coolest urbanite's granny, aunts or mam will have gone/will be going again on pilgrimage to one some or all of the following Knock, Croagh Patrick, Lough Derg, Fatima, Lourdes and Medjugorje.
When one also factors in the many less well known local pilgrimages or 'rounds' that are observed thoughout the country, where nearly every rural parish will have at least one such site-some with a wider extra parochial following others with just a handful of local observers (often auld ones like me), then I don't think its so unusual that the Irish should be hardwired for pilgrimage and take to the Camino like ducks to water. This is a good thing as Ireland need all the prayers and benedictions we can get at the moment.......... :|
I came across similar 'local pilgrimage' sites whose traditions are still being observed in Franconia and Bavaria this summer and, as Germany is still approx 30% Catholic (also about 30% Protestant), it does seem that combination of a country or regions 'religiousness' and having a local pilgrimage tradition provides a seedbed for long range pilgrims.

Nell

PS Many of our Saints were beatified not for dying for their faith but rather for leaving home and traveling for their faith (as missionaries to foreign lands including England and Germany :lol: ) maybe that particularly Irish perception of Martyrdom also acts as a catalyst?

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

I am a British pilgrim just returned with my compostela.

I met three other people from England at Santiago airport on the way home, but only two of them had walked to gain compostela's.

Still four English pilgrims on the same plane must add up to a late season rush along the Way.

Do not underestimate the significance of the decline of the traditional church in England, whatever the denomination. The growing churches are so deeply rooted in the doctrine of justification by faith, that they simply regard the Camino as a pointless exercise.

The Reformation in Britain effectively ended the idea of going on pilgrimage as part of our spiritual heritage.

There is a phrase. The English are moral but not spiritual. Undertaking the Camino for spiritual growth does not enter our psyche or our horizon.

In truth, many of us do not see ourselves as Europeans - why do we still have the pound? - and the English channel is an emotional as well as a physical barrier. Oh yes, we do fly to warmer places or go for a bit of culture (and even romance), but the idea of walking with people from other European countries does not interest the vast majority of Britains. Good grief, if we walk with them we'd have to get to know them!

We are a nation of couch potatoes. We take the car to collect the newspaper from round the corner shop, so the thought of going on pilgrimage......

Me? I'm an odd ball as my 8 Camino's and 1490km on the Way goes to prove.

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Ooops, sorry. Make that 1490 miles or 2398km.

 

[Caminando]

Thanks JW for the detailed stats. Amazingly, they show that in 2010 there were 2718 US pilgs and 1712 UK pilgs. This is a staggering revelation, given the distance US pilgs must travel, but mostly for them having an awareness of the camino, far in advance of UK pilgs.

I am forced to the conclusion that the UK displays a fear of "abroad", and a refusal to admit that they are Europeans. Yet as I say, the Scots had an excellent openness to the Continent: maybe this was eroded after England came under the Scottish Crown in 1603, and with Parliamentary union in 1707. Pure speculation of course. I think historical records show pilgs setting out from St Andrews to SDC, but I forget the year.

On an irrelevant note, those US pilgs I have met on any camino have been a breath of fresh air and good company.

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

I should add that the Christian Church in Korea is among the fastest growing and most vibrant in the world. However, it is predominantly Protestant-Evangelical so the idea of undertaking a pilgrimage to St James would not, on the face of it, be part of Korean Christian spirituality.

If Buddism is a "pilgrim" religion then that might explain some of the growth.

 

[Caminando]

My own suspicion is that it ain't the religiousness of a country but is possibly more to do with whether there is a tradition now or in the past of pilgrimage.

John

Good point; yet in Scotland there was/is the pilgrimage to Iona, and in the Celtic church there was the tradition of the 'gyrovagi', those wandering monks who were eventually suppressed. And pilgrimage to St Andrews too.

In England, 13th century Chaucer in "The Canterbury Tales" and also Langland's "Piers Plowman" show the embedded nature of pilgrimage. There is that mini pilgrimage to Walsingham too. There was enough of an English tradition for it to appear often in Jonathan Sumption's "Pilgrimage", and records show that "many" English women pilgs ended up as prostitutes on the continent - inevitable when without money to live.

 

[Caminando]

The Reformation in Britain effectively ended the idea of going on pilgrimage as part of our spiritual heritage.
.........................................................................................
But we discussed above that other countries have had a Reformation, including the country of Luther, and yet those countries are very numerous on the camino. So what's different about England, or indeed the UK?

Sure, but many people from many countries walk the camino for non religious/spiritual reasons. So why dont UK people?

The plot thickens....

 

[Deleted member 3000]

With about 62m population in the United Kingdom, and about 310m in the United States, the proportion of pilgrims from the UK is much larger than the U.S. For some reason the Tim Moore comedy book on the Camino did not stimulate the urge to walk the way the mystical MacLaine and comedic/secular Kerkeling books did. The sudden growth in Korean pilgrims is due to "Suh Myung-sook, published a book about her experience walking El Camino de Santiago." This fall, most of the English I heard was from the Irish pilgrims. I am always astounded that the Scots and I are speaking the same language.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Dinnae be surprised Falcon - we're a' Jock Tamson's bairns

 

[HDrider]

I walked the Frances last year and met some Germans and also several Koreans. Both sets of people told me the interest had been awakened in their countries by well known people who had written books on their Camino experiences. Hape Kerkeling, a well known German comedian, (I didn't know there was any ) wrote the German one and I don't know about the Korean author. Perhaps we should get an English comedian to do the CF and publish his tales. Or perhaps not!

 

[sillydoll]

Eddie Izzard!!! Yay..... I can just see him holding fort in the albergues!! Darth Vader -
"I find your lack of faith disturbing." "You don't know the power of the dark side!"

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

The Reformation in Britain effectively ended the idea of going on pilgrimage as part of our spiritual heritage.
.........................................................................................
But we discussed above that other countries have had a Reformation, including the country of Luther, and yet those countries are very numerous on the camino. So what's different about England, or indeed the UK?

Sure, but many people from many countries walk the camino for non religious/spiritual reasons. So why dont UK people?

The plot thickens....

Sorry, non English people may not have understood the phrase, couch potato. It means we spend too much time sitting down, usually watching TV, and not getting out to do exercise like walking. Few British people go out walking for pleasure. The paseo is not part of our culture, nor is going walking at weekends. We are not going to suddenly start because we have heard of the Camino.

It is a great pity but also the reality.

 

[Caminando]

The Reformation in Britain effectively ended the idea of going on pilgrimage as part of our spiritual heritage.
.........................................................................................
But we discussed above that other countries have had a Reformation, including the country of Luther, and yet those countries are very numerous on the camino. So what's different about England, or indeed the UK?

Sure, but many people from many countries walk the camino for non religious/spiritual reasons. So why dont UK people?

The plot thickens....

Sorry, non English people may not have understood the phrase, couch potato. It means we spend too much time sitting down, usually watching TV, and not getting out to do exercise like walking. Few British people go out walking for pleasure. The paseo is not part of our culture, nor is going walking at weekends. We are not going to suddenly start because we have heard of the Camino.

It is a great pity but also the reality.

I think you'll find that the "couch potato" phrase is used in every Anglophone country. I think it is of US origin. You seem to confuse "British"and "English" which isn't helpful. Many British people do walk for pleasure in the UK, actually.

You may have missed the point of the issue, which is not about walking in the UK.

 

[sillydoll]

Oh for heaven's sake - stop playing one-ups!!
The subject became - why are there so few English/Brits/people from the UK walking the camino. The member is saying - it could be because they are no longer a great walking country. Surely we all understood that?

 

[Caminando]

Oh for heaven's sake - stop playing one-ups!!
The subject became - why are there so few English/Brits/people from the UK walking the camino. The member is saying - it could be because they are no longer a great walking country. Surely we all understood that?[quote)

Hi Sillyd, surely some of us understand that the assertion simply isn't true, and that we disagree. Can we do that? :wink: Can you really can speak for "all" of us?

I must tell you that just one UK Walking Organisation alone has 125,000 members.

I'd like to hear your views if they're on topic I'm wondering why so few UK people walk the Camino - any thoughts on that?

 

[JohnnieWalker]

I tend to think that Nellpilgrim is right and in countries where there is a tradition of pilgrimage it is somehow in the "hardwire" or as Jung might have argued in the collective unconscious. I also don't think that "walking" and "pilgrimage" are interchangeable - for example in the UK would we expect a higher proportion of the Ramblers Association to have walked the Camino compared to the rest of the population? I suspect not.

In other countries such as Korea I think we are seeing the power of the internet and word spreading on message boards etc. The number of "visitors" to this forum for example far exceeds the active membership.

 

[Caminando]

I tend to think that Nellpilgrim is right and in countries where there is a tradition of pilgrimage it is somehow in the "hardwire" or as Jung might have argued in the collective unconscious. I also don't think that "walking" and "pilgrimage" are interchangeable - for example in the UK would we expect a higher proportion of the Ramblers Association to have walked the Camino compared to the rest of the population? I suspect not.

In other countries such as Korea I think we are seeing the power of the internet and word spreading on message boards etc. The number of "visitors" to this forum for example far exceeds the active membership.

I do agree that walking and pilgrimage are not interchangeable. There might be little bit of awareness in such organisations if someone wrote of the Camino, but I don't think it would greatly affect awareness. The Jungian concept could be fruitful, as I think that the collective unconscious thread of pilgrimage has operated in the British Isles, but was somehow severed with the demise of Catholicism, though puzzingly, this didnt happen in other countries.

 

[andy.d]

This is an interesting thread - thanks. I've been reflecting on this in my blog a bit, remembering my own pilgrimages, and also reflecting on Peter Stanford's recent book 'The Extra Mile', which is an exploration of the popularity of pilgrimage in the British Isles. Maybe there aren't many British pilgrims on the Camino, but it seems to be flowering in other places. And Holywell has an uninterrupted tradition since before the Reformation.

Andy