Only used my bell once

[newfydog]

We recently spent some time biking on the LePuy route, part of our Tour of the Beast of the Gevaudan (La Bete du Gevaudan, a celebrated wolf who terrorized the region in the 1760's). We had not been on the trail for many years, and it certainly is more crowded these days. Once again, we passed hundreds of pilgrims absolutely no conflicts or collisions with the people on foot.

There are regular threads here extolling the virtues of ringing a bell to warn of your approach. While I suppose that is better than storming past, it is frequently unnecessary, and sometimes obnoxious. "DING DING DING, get out of my way" is no way to bike the trails. Better to slow down to their speed, say hello, and come around them where there is room. I find it best to pass when I can go off the track a bit and leave the walkers on their trajectory. I find the bell often causes them to leap out of the way and stop, something which must get old after too many bikes.

The only time I dinged the bell was when we came upon a group walking four abreast. My wife came up, said hello, and a couple of them moved over. She said in French that a second bike was coming, but they didn't understand and quickly blocked the entire path again so I dinged the bell to let them know there was another.

Here we are with a pelerin named Alain. I got talking to him on the long climb out of LePuy, comparing itineraries, hometowns etc. We determined that we might meet again, because our loop went north, then brought us backwards on part of the trail in a week. Sure enough, a week later we met, and were greeted with hugs and stories.

 

[Felipe]

Politeness, tolerance and common sense are great. That has been my experience, both as a cyclist and a walker.
But in an ideal world, it would be better if there were separate paths.

 

[SusanPaulus]

Politeness, tolerance and common sense are great. That has been my experience, both as a cyclist and a walker.
But in an ideal world, it would be better if there were separate paths.

I enjoyed seeing bikers. Much respect to you all....I wouldn't attempt it. I especially enjoyed seeing bikers during a long day when no other pilgrims were seen for hours. It not only made me feel I was actually getting somewhere but if I needed help they could get it faster than a walker could.

 

[newfydog]

I never had to go for help, but occasionally I find a jacket, or zip off pant legs left at a rest stop. I hang them on the bike, move them down the trail a few days and leave them in a visible spot.

 

[edumad]

newfydog, I agree on the approach on biking. We gotta remember, as when driving a car or walking sidewalk, that there are other with whom we share the experience.

 

[frida1]

As a walker and a cyclist, I like the bell. I'm not annoyed by cyclists using a bell as a warning; it's safe and useful. As a cyclist on a multi-use trail, I wouldn't be without it. I don't think using a warning bell is an excuse for refusing to slow down around walkers though.

 

[t2andreo]

Having been literally forced off the path by two SILENT, hurtling downhill mountain bikers in 2013, and coming within a second of skydiving off a Camino path with a sheer drop, and no parachute, I MUCH prefer the relative "annoyance" of bells...lots of bells...

It beats the next sound I hear being that of celestial harps played by angels...

I will continue to lobby for bells, or other alerting devices, as long as bike riders share upaved Camino paths with those walking. I note that there are several bicycle specific routes that parallel and overlay the "pedestrian " Camino, but on paved surfaces. There are guide books detailing these bicycle-specific routes.

Yes, I am aware that the road route along NH the Camino Frances uses much of the N120. I have walked along this highway, several times over three Caminos. Personally, were I riding a bicycle, I would have no problem using this route.

Riding a bicycle WITH the flow of traffic is the default manner for riding a bicycle. Off-road bicycle riding and mountain-biking, is a fairly recent phenomenon.

When a cyclist uses the forest and farm / vineyard / orchard Camino paths with the walking pilgrims, they transfer the relative safety risk from themselves (in the case of sharing the road with motor vehicles) to the slower, less maneuverable walking pilgrim. IMHO, that strikes me as, well and frankly, a tad selfish.

That said, I support sharing the path, where necessary, with considerate bicycle riders. I am also aware that there will be others here in the Forum, who will take a position that walking pilgrims must also be considerate of cyclists.

In reply, I will simply offer the international motoring standard for giving priority. In my 27 years of driving, biking, and as a pedestrian for nearly 59 years, my understanding (and paraphrasing from experience) is that, on any surface, powered vehicles, including bicycles are required to yield to pedestrians. A walking pilgrim is a pedestrian.

I hope this helps the dialog.

 

[newfydog]

I MUCH prefer the relative "annoyance" of bells...lots of bells...

I will continue to lobby for bells, or other alerting devices, as long as bike riders share upaved Camino paths with those walking..

You might note that I have a bell. I just find it is very rarely needed. A fool with a bell is still a fool.

But then again, who are these "fools"? An interesting post was on another thread:
-------------------------------------------

"Something I think I've noticed after 5 Camino's, is that there are many more cyclists on weekends and holidays. And from the sound of them as they advance from the rear is that most are speaking (or yelling) Spanish. But this should count as letting walkers know they are coming - FAST! Just get out of their way. Monday will come and that particular traffic will decrease.
My own experience has been that those cyclists who are on their way to Santiago are decent folk on a pilgrimage. Smile at them, say thank you when they warn you of their approach, and chat with them in the albergues."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part of the issue stems from the fact that the hikers are on what some of the locals consider to be their home bike/hike/farm implement tracks. The most dangerous riders I've seen were local Spaniards leading a tour. They live there, and if you decide to visit and walk on their trails well, you need to realize you are in a bit of a different culture and they may pass you in the manner they are accustomed to.

 

[t2andreo]

I agree that there are both responsible and irresponsible cycle riders. This is the same demographic that nearly killed me in 2013.

They drove to the top of Alto de Perdón, beyond Pamplona. Their "lark" was intended to be a downhill run into Pamplona. We, walking pilgrims, were simply obstacles in the way...

 

[jmcarp]

I never had to go for help, but occasionally I find a jacket, or zip off pant legs left at a rest stop. I hang them on the bike, move them down the trail a few days and leave them in a visible spot.

Good idea. Consider pinning a note on whatever it is, saying "I'm cycling the Camino and found this at..."

 

[newfydog]

At the risk of accruing even more penalty points from a moderator (I am already on 'double/secret probation'), I will simply concur with your post.

I agree that there are both responsible and irresponsible cycle riders. This is the same demographic that nearly killed me in 2013.

They drove to the top of Alto de Perdón, beyond Pamplona. Their "lark" was intended to be a doenhill run into Pamplona. We, walking pilgrims, were simply obstacles in the way...

If you go to Strava, you'll see that parts of the Camino are indeed local bike race courses, with hundreds of GPS recorded times. That is their home turf, and their right to use it for biking. It would be nice if the trail were reserved for pilgrims, but it is not, and you need to realize that when you hit the trail you are not in a national park, you are in a mixed use public area. Personally, I don't ride that way---I avoid my local mixed trails on weekends, but I'm not comfortable telling the people of Pamplona how to ride on Spanish soil.

Ever tried driving in India? It is a bit different than the way we do it at home.

 

[Former member 62607]

We recently spent some time biking on the LePuy route, part of our Tour of the Beast of the Gevaudan (La Bete du Gevaudan, a celebrated wolf who terrorized the region in the 1760's). We had not been on the trail for many years, and it certainly is more crowded these days. Once again, we passed hundreds of pilgrims absolutely no conflicts or collisions with the people on foot.

There are regular threads here extolling the virtues of ringing a bell to warn of your approach. While I suppose that is better than storming past, it is frequently unnecessary, and sometimes obnoxious. "DING DING DING, get out of my way" is no way to bike the trails. Better to slow down to their speed, say hello, and come around them where there is room. I find it best to pass when I can go off the track a bit and leave the walkers on their trajectory. I find the bell often causes them to leap out of the way and stop, something which must get old after too many bikes.

The only time I dinged the bell was when we came upon a group walking four abreast. My wife came up, said hello, and a couple of them moved over. She said in French that a second bike was coming, but they didn't understand and quickly blocked the entire path again so I dinged the bell to let them know there was another.

Here we are with a pelerin named Alain. I got talking to him on the long climb out of LePuy, comparing itineraries, hometowns etc. We determined that we might meet again, because our loop went north, then brought us backwards on part of the trail in a week. Sure enough, a week later we met, and were greeted with hugs and stories.

View attachment 34545

Personally I appreciated a warning bell when the cyclist was some way back as it made me jump to suddenly realise I had a cyclist Immediatly behind that I hadn't heard approach . An aggressive ding, ding,ding right behind you wouldn't be good, for sure, but I like to know there's someone nearby as I'm often in another world and likely to step the wrong way into the path of a cyclist. A few times I had no idea until the cyclist suddenly appeared at my side and it was disconcerting. I wouldn't bounce too well In a collision so please, let walkers know you're there, maybe talk loudly or sing/ whistle!

 

[Fearbocht]

People are people and my view is as walkers and cyclists they are all blessed to be enjoying the fabulous countryside. I really appreciate a bell from a long way back, but I also understand that there are lots of twists and turns that the oncoming cyclist may not see me till the last minute so then I appreciate a warning too. On the camino lots of people are happy, some people on a given day may be processing some unpleasantness and may be too preoccupied in a given moment to do what they would normally do...be they walker or cyclist. As a walker I think the flow of happy cyclists wishing me a buen camino is a great addition to my day...and if there is a momentary surprise that causes me to jump involuntarily by a late bell...then it is better than a nasty surprise of a collision!

 

[Saint Mike II]

We recently spent some time biking on the LePuy route, part of our Tour of the Beast of the Gevaudan (La Bete du Gevaudan, a celebrated wolf who terrorized the region in the 1760's). We had not been on the trail for many years, and it certainly is more crowded these days. Once again, we passed hundreds of pilgrims absolutely no conflicts or collisions with the people on foot.

The only time I dinged the bell was when we came upon a group walking four abreast. My wife came up, said hello, and a couple of them moved over. She said in French that a second bike was coming, but they didn't understand and quickly blocked the entire path again so I dinged the bell to let them know there was another.

Here we are with a pelerin named Alain. I got talking to him on the long climb out of LePuy, comparing itineraries, hometowns etc. We determined that we might meet again, because our loop went north, then brought us backwards on part of the trail in a week. Sure enough, a week later we met, and were greeted with hugs and stories.

View attachment 34545

Great photo and now we really know that there is a Mrs Newfydog. Cheers

 

[Hiawatha]

I agree that there are both responsible and irresponsible cycle riders. This is the same demographic that nearly killed me in 2013.

They drove to the top of Alto de Perdón, beyond Pamplona. Their "lark" was intended to be a doenhill run into Pamplona. We, walking pilgrims, were simply obstacles in the way...

Much 20th
Same thing happened as I climbed to Alto de Perdon a few weeks ago . Unfortunately a young Australian man was forced over the edge . He suffered some nasty bruises , grazes and gear damage . Sympathetic locals tended to him and as far as I know he continued after a few days of bus rides .

 

[t2andreo]

It depends where you fall off the path on that section of Camino trail. In 2013, there were no cables or stanchions on the final few hundred meters. THAT is where the drop off is near vertical.

Before that, the slope from the trail down to the surrounding farm fields starts low, and becomes increasingly steep. But, you can get hurt seriously all along that stretch. But near the top, as was the case with me in 2013, the slope is steep enough and high enough that the risk of a broken neck is significant.

The fellow you mention was indeed "lucky."

 

[newfydog]

The unfortunate fact is that Alto de Perdon is indeed one of the local race courses. Strava lists times for 856 descents by 316 racers. The current record, by someone named Inaki is 2:41, averaging 36.7 km/h.
Keep your head up and look out for them! Here's some info on avoiding that segment:

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/avoiding-the-alto-de-perdon.17036/

Perhaps some group can put in a pilgrim's trail closed to bikes. Until then, expect to be sharing it with them.

 

[t2andreo]

Newfydog: THAT is my entire point. The Camino should NOT be shared between bikers and walkers. The two streams need to be separate where possible, and specific yield-to-pedestrian signs, policies and regulations need to be imposed elsewhere.

With the pilgrim volumes increasing as they are, very serious and sober thought needs to be given to safe segregation on stretches where both types of pilgrims are compelled to share a single narrow path, with no alternative.

In the off-season, where there are few pilgrims walking each day, it is not so much an issue. However, from perhaps May to October, sharing the path can be hazardous.

I respect the right of cyclists to have their own trails for recreation. But, walking pilgrim safety needs to be respected too. If all cyclists will not respect that, then someone in authority should step in to arbitrate the issue. As is usually the case, the problem is not with responsible and considerate cyclists.

At present, there ARE responsible and considerate cyclists. We have all encountered some of them. Unfortunately, having one bad experience with an inconsiderate cyclist can tend to spoil one's opinion on this issue. My near-death experience only heightened that ire.

I hope this helps.

 

[newfydog]

someone in authority should step in to arbitrate the issue. My near-death experience only heightened that ire.

I hope this helps.

I appreciate your near death experience, but perhaps your ire is misplaced. I did a climb, in a country I won't name, where the party above carelessly showered us with loose rocks all the way up. In my country, a climber would be mortified to do that, and would yell a warning for every little rock that got away.

When we got to the top, we complained to the party for their carelessness. No apology was offered, in fact, we were told with a shrug that climbing is dangerous, and that if we were not prepared to deal with it we should just go home to North America. "We climb by our own rules here, not yours".

It was a bit of an epiphany for me. In many countries, drivers pass on blind curves, they carry babies on motorbike with no helmets, and they blast pedestrians out of the way with their horns. They live their lives differently than we do at home. In my home area bikes yield to hikers. In Spain some don't. The only place I can expect to be be afforded all the considerations I get at home, is at home.

 

[t2andreo]

I respect all you have said in your several posts. I am not anti-bicycle rider. I was, and remain deeply affected by my experiences.

Yet, when on all my subsequent Caminos I continue to share the path. Most bicycle riders are considerate. Some even alert walkers to their oncoming. But, it is what it is.

No need to say more. But, if and when I choose to use a bicycle to do a Camino, it will be on the parallel road, or not at all.

 

[MikeC]

You might like this article from todays London Times.
Until the new style 'quacker' is available for sale cyclists might ride with a duck tucked under their arm and give it a quick squeeze when approaching walkers?

Seriously though; as a cyclist I prefer to stay off the walkers path. Safer all round and I get time to look around and also to contemplate, which is difficult when having to concentrate on avoiding walkers.

If it quacks like a duck . . . it’s a car
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Cacophonies of quacking may soon become as common on busy high streets as in park ponds, thanks to scientists who are determined to make the sound of car horns less stressful.

Researchers at Soongsil University in Seoul, South Korea, found that a synthesised duck noise was the least obnoxious way to effectively get the attention of other road users.

The scientists returned to the early days of motoring and remodelled the classic Klaxon car horn, which was introduced in 1908. Different variations on the “ah-oo-gah” noise made by the horn were tested on 100 volunteers, who rated each sound for qualities such as volume and stress to find one that could be easily noticed without being too irritating. They ranked the noises from “bad” to “excellent”.

Myung-Jin Bae, the lead researcher, said: “In our study we used the existing historic Klaxon sound source but made some modification concerning its volume and rhythm with duration time by adding a power controller.

“Our new Klaxon sound can immediately alert the pedestrians of the danger while also reducing the unpleasantness and stress of the sound.”

The study indicated that a synthesised quacking noise could be noticed well by drivers but was less startling than a classic horn. Professor Bae said that it could contribute to road safety by being less distracting to drivers.

He pointed out that the Klaxon had the advantage of making a loud noise at low power but its volume could not be easily controlled.

The researchers presented their idea to the Acoustics ’17 conference in Boston, Massachusetts.