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Pack weight question no. 987456

caitlin_s

New Member
Hi all!

It's still a couple of months out from my departure but I've acquired almost all of my gear, weighed it and entered it into a spreadsheet (I think I got this idea from Sillydoll?).

My total weight (with estimates for a few items, but likely to be accurate) including absolutely everything except water/food (I even weighed my passport, ziploc bags, etc.) is 7.254kg, of which I will be wearing *at least* 1.58 kg at any given time, leaving 5.674kg (plus water - a kilo?) on my back.

I can probably lose at least another 200 grams by hemming clothes and removing superfluous bits and bobs from my clothing & gear. And then I could lose some more by cutting out luxuries (which total 1.17kg, although that's including things like a camera, maps and a suction hook).

I'm 28, reasonably fit, very healthy, and weigh somewhere around 55kg. So, then, dear, wise forum ones - is it really ab-so-lutely imperative that I stick to 5.5 kilos in total, or is, say, 5.7 plus water plus the clothes on my back reasonable enough?

Please say yeeesssss!*

*Joke! Please don't let me pressure you into saying yes. Stern contrary advice will also be accepted with the gratitude befitting a peregrina. ;)
 
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JohnnieWalker

Nunca se camina solo
caitlin_s said:
My total weight (with estimates for a few items, but likely to be accurate) including absolutely everything except water/food (I even weighed my passport, ziploc bags, etc.) is 7.254kg, of which I will be wearing *at least* 1.58 kg at any given time, leaving 5.674kg (plus water - a kilo?) on my back.

I'm 28, reasonably fit, very healthy, and weigh somewhere around 55kg. So, then, dear, wise forum ones - is it really ab-so-lutely imperative that I stick to 5.5 kilos in total, or is, say, 5.7 plus water plus the clothes on my back reasonable enough?

Please say yeeesssss!*

YEEESSSSS!

Caitlin I think this is a huge achievement and will greatly help you have an enjoyable and physical problem free camino. There are few imperatives - one of the most important is that you are comfortable with the weight you are carrying and it sounds to me that you have it about right.

Well done.

John
 

andy.d

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
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That sounds great Caitlin. Try to make sure you do a bit of practice with your pack at full weight.

I'm a bit heretical by being happy to trade weight for a few extra things I enjoy (like a decent sized journal to write in). The amount you carry is a personal choice, but I'm sure you'll be fine with what you are proposing,

buen camino,

Andy
 

+@^^

Active Member
caitlin dearie
there are 2 options here
either
option 1: you put on 10kays by eating sticky buns for a month (this will increase your 10% body weight rule) - clevver hay ?
or
option 2: you shed 10kays, thus reducing your overall load of body + pack, and then who cares what the percentage ratio is - i had thought of a really clevver option 2, but now i cant remember what it was.....
 
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dougfitz

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
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Caitlen, I agree with others about this being a great effort, but at risk of offending those who hold the 10% rule inviolate, it is something akin to a magic number - endowed with great significance but with unexplained meaning and whose origins are indistinct if at all traceable.

Some traceable facts
  • the CSJ website now advises pack weight of 10-15% of body weight. Some people have earlier guides from the CSJ that use just the lower figure, but this doesn't reflect their current advice.
  • 'The Complete Walker IV, a classic for hikers, suggests a maximum FSO (from the skin out) of 1/3 of body weight for 'backpacking as an enjoyment p.54
  • It also suggests that reasonable hiking loads would be between 1/4 and 1/5 of body weight, noting that this is for multi-day hiking in wilderness areas where one needs to be carrying more food than is required on the Camino.
  • The CSJ recommended packing list for someone like me who wears L or XL clothing exceeds 10% of my body weight before it goes into a pack. In my case, the CSJ list weights 8500gm compared to a 10% target of 7500gm. It is well within the 15% upper limit when in a pack. Note this includes 1li of water, but no food.
Using the Complete Walker 20% FSO for your circumstances, you would have:
  • a FSO target weight of 11kg
  • you say you are wearing 1.58kg, leaving 9.42kg
  • your current gear list and pack comes in at 5.67kg. leaving 3.75kg
  • if you allocate 2kg to water and food, you have a residual of 1.75kg
  • which you don't have to use, but you could carry more and still stay within this target.
The same analysis using the CSJ upper band of 15% would be:
  • a target pack weight of 8.25kg
  • you say you are currently carrying 5.67kg, leaving 2.58kg
  • if you allocate 2kg to water and food, you have a residual of 0.58kg
  • which is about 1/3 of other approach, but you could carry a little more and stay within this target.

So what is the meaning of it all? To borrow a phrase - to walk far, carry less.

My own experience is that I can achieve 16-20km a day carrying 20kg, a bit more with a push, when I am bush walking on good tracks. With a 10kg load, I have managed ~72km in two days, which I did three days before walking the Camino in 2010. Unladen, I have done 50km in a day and backed up to add 18km the next day, or 60km in a day and not walked the following day.

I think this is pretty powerful evidence, but it doesn't establish a limit, just a general observation that the more one carries, the shorter one's comfortable daily distances will be.

The other side of the trade-off is that extreme weight saving become extremely uncomfortable in one way or another, and also extremely expensive (or so my wife would have you believe!).

Regards,

ps if you
put on 10kays by eating sticky buns
you would need to count that as extra insulations, and add it to your carried load, not use it to calculate pack weight :)
 

grayland

Moderator
Staff member
Past OR future Camino
Yes
You have done a very difficult task in getting your pack weight down. Most cannot accomplish this.

After all of the opinions and numbers have been considered...the bottom line is only carry what is necessary. Remember you can buy anything you need or just want along the way. That way you will be carrying less at the start when you will have the biggest challenge and then add to it if you wish as you gain fitness along the way.

Don't add anything and you will thank yourself over and over again as you watch others struggle.

I have my pack weight down to 6.5kg for my next Camino in April.
 

caitlin_s

New Member
Thanks everyone for your replies - and I’m not just saying that because I basically got the answer I was hoping for! It is so generous the way experienced people on this forum put time into helping newbies like me and I truly appreciate it…
Arn, I don’t plan on cutting the end off my toothbrush ;), BUT…. Seeing as I am 4’11 and extremely handy with a sewing machine, I am seriously considering cutting 20 unnecessary cms off the bottom of my sleeping bag & liner. Is that completely insane???? I’m in two minds…
+@^^, As I would say if this conversation were taking place on Twitter, LOL! If you’re as ingenious and quirky/hilarious in person as on this board then you’re exactly the kind of fellow pilgrim I hope to run into on my journey… Anyhow, I like your idea very much, but do you think perhaps it will still work if I substitute the sticky buns for G&T, soft cheeses and all manner of deep-fried goodies?
DougF, I can’t even explain how much (as someone with a great interest in research and argumentation) I love this systematic analysis you’ve done. I could not fail to be convinced by such a well-constructed and supported argument :)
Grayland, my weight so far does include a few things that aren’t strictly necessary, such as a 200g merino dress I've made to wear in the evenings/on the plane/in the city at each end of the trip. I feel a bit guilty about that but also reluctant to give it up! :/
Anyhow, my overall conclusion from all this advice is that I’m fairly content with my pack weight as currently planned. I definitely won’t add anything more to it. I’ll also make the effort to do a few long walks with the pack on and see how I go, and if I’m uncomfortable or too slow I’ll cut out some more of that ‘luxury’ weight.
 

fraluchi

RIP 2019
Past OR future Camino
One every year since 2007
caitlin_s said:
Thanks everyone for your replies - .... my weight so far does include a few things that aren’t strictly necessary, such as a 200g merino dress I've made to wear in the evenings/on the plane/in the city at each end of the trip. I feel a bit guilty about that but also reluctant to give it up! :/
You can walk with the weight you feel is comfortable. Food, beverages, sundry items, can be purchased with a bit of daily planning as you get along the path. Items which you "might need in case of" can be mailed to the required destination. Keep it short and simple.
 

+@^^

Active Member
the whole weight thing needs to be approached very scientific
until it comes to 200g merino dresses
this is essential pilgrim attire
its only once youve penetrated the inner circle of the pilgrim network that they tell you this
.
so consider this a heads-up
.
it is regarded as very pilgrimish to look and smell like a pilgrim during the day
but you dont need to do this in the evenings
so a cardboard dress from the local convenience strore and crocs just dont cut it
.
rather abandon unnecessary luxuary items like food and medication
who needs them anyway
when its important to look like a goddess at nite
 
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D

Deleted member 3000

Guest
When they told me I looked like a goddess in my cardboard dress and Crocs were they just humoring me?
 

Kialoa3

Active Member
Caitlin,

Don't get too hung up on the 10% advice. It is a good reference point, but obviously it is not meant to be an absolute. We all try to carry as light a pack as possible as that makes for a happy pilgrim and a fun Camino. However, another equally important consideration is your pack and how it carries. Many people can carry a bit more weight and not suffer if they have a pack that fits well. So make sure you practice carrying your loaded pack as a poorly fitting pack (even lightly loaded) can be just as problematic as too much weight. You sound very well prepared, and probably have this already in mind. So off you go and have the time of your life. Please keep us posted.
 

Freetime

Member
Past OR future Camino
0 currently. Shooting for 2014
Would a silk sarong wrap weigh less? If so, it can do multiple duty as skirt, dress, sun shade and privacy curtain.

Sent using Tapatalk.
 

Thomas Hugues

New Member
What's all the hullabaloo with packing !?

I've looked over so many lists of things to pack that I can't look at another one without angrily lashing out (internally) at those who have so much trouble packing 10kg or less. I leave for Bordeaux on Saturday but will not start my Camino until 11 May from SJPdP. With water and a packed lunch, my sack weighs a total of 9.7kg. Everything I need is there unless anyone can see where I missed something. I'm 42, 75kg, quite fit and I do not smoke.

It seems to me that people here are (1) placing things in their sack that are double their normal weight, (2) fussing over every single item as if this were advanced rocket science, (3) worried to death that they won't be able to find something they need along the way or (4) can't get it through their head that they can get rid of extra weight by giving up a few extra items. I have WAY more items than the folks who are in such a tizzy over this subject and I still haven't managed to put more than 10kg in my sack. I just don't see what the big fuss is all about.

2 guide books (one in French / one in English)
1 journal and 1 pen
1 credencial
1 small stone
1 LED flashlight
1 pair of sandles
5 pairs of socks
5 pairs of underwear
5 quick-dry sport shirts (2 with long sleeves)
1 pair of shorts
2 pairs of pants (can become shorts by unzipping at the knee)
1 poncho
1 lightweight fleece
1 lightweight rain jacket
1 silk sleeping bag
1 roll-up sleeping mat
6 clothes pins
1 micro fiber towel
1 bag of earplugs
1 hat
1 phone charger
1 camera battery charger
4 extra SD cards
1 bottle of water .500 litres
1 sack lunch
1 bag with my medications, toiletries, fork, spoon, and knife
1 flattened toilet paper roll
2 different sized plastic bags for ... whatever ...

The only things that have NOT been weighed are: my hiking staff, my boots (which I've been wearing for over six months), and my small fanny pack with money, passport, credit card, camera and telephone. I've walked distances longer than 20km/per day many times with all those items listed above and I STILL have lots of room in my backpack. Like I said, this isn't rocket science.
 
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Pieces

Veteran Member
not sure if your list is inclusive of what you are wearing, if not you may wanna trim... 9,7 is heavy (I think)


2 guide books (one in French / one in English) (surely one language is sufficient)
5 pairs of socks: 3 pairs wear 1 pack 2
5 pairs of underwear 3 pairs wear 1 pack 2
5 quick-dry sport shirts (2 with long sleeves) 3 shirts wear 1 pack 2
1 pair of shorts (if you bring zipp offs why bring shorts ?)
2 pairs of pants (can become shorts by unzipping at the knee) 2 pairs wear 1 pack 1
1 poncho
1 lightweight fleece
1 lightweight rain jacket (why would you want a rain jacket when you have a poncho (unless is that new northface 68 gram one ?)
1 roll-up sleeping mat (why?)

also swap the toilet tissue for a pack of kleenex and save another 100 gram...

my estimated packweigh INCL everything i will wear as well as money, passport ect, just under 6,5 kg without walkingshoes and 1 outfit (excl sweater) about 5,5
 
D

Deleted member 3000

Guest
Too many socks and underwear. Three might be too much, but that is what I take.

No sleeping mat. Borrow one if you need to; let someone else carry it! (You won't ever need to, by the way.)

Toilet paper without the inside cardboard roll. About four uses worth. It is available everywhere if you need more.

Is two books from indecision? If so, leave one by deciding.

I now have two stages in ten caminos using a baggage service. I can say with certainty that lighter is better! I have done the 40+ pound backpack for a couple of weeks several times while camping, but shipped back 10# on one camino when my pack started at 30#. Somehow the pack on the camino needs to be light, and I found no consolation in knowing that I had carried much more in the past. Count the ounces, and leave everything behind that you can label "might need." You will be glad you did.
 
Past OR future Camino
CF 2006,08,09,11,12(2),13(2),14,16(2),18(2) Aragones 11,12,VDLP 11,13,Lourdes 12,Malaga 16,Port 06
To Thomas:

2 guide books (one in French / one in English) WHY 2?
1 journal and 1 pen
1 credencial
1 small stone
1 LED flashlight
1 pair of sandles
5 pairs of socks - WHY? 2 is enough
5 pairs of underwear - WHY? 2 is enough
5 quick-dry sport shirts (2 with long sleeves) - WHY? 2 is enough
1 pair of shorts
2 pairs of pants (can become shorts by unzipping at the knee) - Does this include the one you will wear?
1 poncho
1 lightweight fleece
1 lightweight rain jacket
1 silk sleeping bag
1 roll-up sleeping mat - I'll bet 10 Euros you will dump this after 3 days. This is the one thing I see most of in the FREE boxes
6 clothes pins - use safety pins instead - that way the wind doesn't blow your clothes off the line
1 micro fiber towel
1 bag of earplugs
1 hat
1 phone charger
1 camera battery charger
4 extra SD cards
1 bottle of water .500 litres
1 sack lunch
1 bag with my medications, toiletries, fork, spoon, and knife
1 flattened toilet paper roll
2 different sized plastic bags for ... whatever ...

Where is your convertor plug for your electronics? Rick Steves is selling them right now for $1 each
Where is your pack cover for rain?
Where is your sun/wind/rain hat?

Otherwise, looks pretty darned good.
 

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2014, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011, 2019. CP (tbc)
Re: What's all the hullabaloo with packing !?

Thomas Hugues said:
With water and a packed lunch, my sack weighs a total of 9.7kg. Everything I need is there unless anyone can see where I missed something.
snip
I just don't see what the big fuss is all about.
Thomas,

you sound pretty pleased with what might actually be a pretty ordinary achievement. Using the pack volume calculations from The Complete Walker IV, an American walker's classic, and the other data you have given, your volume target should be 35li for lightweight walking and overall weight target 9.6kg. This presumes you are a bit more resilient than normal, and includes both food and water for a day with some reserve. If you are only carrying lunch and 0.5li of water, the CW IV target would be around 7.6kg all up, so you appear to be well over that.

If you were going ultralight and were prepared to toughen up, the targets would be 25li and 6.6kg. Some of the ultralight advocates on this forum claim to be achieving these targets.

Personally, you are carrying too little water. In summer, you should be contemplating consuming around 4li/day or about about 0.75li/hour to be adequately protected from dehydration. My view is carrying less than 1li increases the risks, particularly if you find the next font is dry! When I walked in Apr 2010, there were several occasions where I saw dry fonts, and a couple where pilgrims with empty water bottles were going to have to walk to the next village thirsty. It was more a issue in the east half of the Camino Frances - once in Galicia, it didn't seem to be a problem.
 

Thomas Hugues

New Member
What's all the fuss...

Thanks everyone for your advice. Just what I was looking for. I thought I needed the sleeping mat for when a hostel is full and I need to sleep on the floor or in a courtyard outside under the stars. I guess that's something not to worry about. I have a hat. I don't need electricity converters because I live in France and all of my equipment is European already. I guess I could do with more water...and get rid of a few clothing items. This will all just make my pack even lighter than it already is. Again, thanks.
 
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na2than

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
(2012)(2013)
your packing list looks good, loads of shirts and lots of underwear. if we meet on the trail i will look like a hobo next to you...is it the frech influence of satrorial elegance?
one tiny tip...i was given a L E D key fob to attatch to my pack...solar powered and size of a car key.(my local mongolian grill was giving them away)

finally....no flag...maybe we should attatch hankerchief flags to our packs...only 3% of walkers from uk/USA...
 

chris m

New Member
I should be grateful for advice here. I am 69 doing my first Camino in a months time. I have got my pack weight down to 7Kg , or just over. I still find this too heavy , I weight 63 Kg now. But I cannot for the life of me see anything I can cut out that would make an appreciable difference. The main weight is bedding ; I have swapped my 4 seasons down bag for a wool blanket. That is the heaviest item at over 1 Kg. I don't want to cold and sleepless at night. Any advice ?
 
D

Deleted member 3000

Guest
Use a baggage transport service, maybe. After a few days of walking, you could carry your pack for a day, and see how it is going. By the end, you may not want/need a baggage service. Discomfort, Yes; misery, No. :D
 

Kitsambler

Jakobsweg Junkie
Past OR future Camino
Le Puy 2010-11, Prague 2012, Nuremberg 2013, Einsiedeln 2015, Geneva 2017-19
A set of lightweight silk or polyprop long underwear instead of the sleeping bag/blanket, would save you about 0.75 Kg.
 

mspath

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances, autumn/winter; 2004, 2005-2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015
Columkille,

If you plan on staying in pilgrim albergues most will require that you have some sort of 'bag' to separate you from the mattress cover. You might consider carrying only a lightweight silk/polyester sleeping bag liner instead of a sleeping bag or your blanket. The liner with the silk or polyprop long underwear suggested by Kitsambler should be a good combo. You can always ask for a blanket if you need one and don't see any. Most albergues have some available.

Stay cozy and Buen Camino,

Margaret Meredith
 
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David

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
First one in 2005 from Moissac, France.
Another good thread! I think that what shows through here, starting with Caitlin, is that there is a lot of real and pragmatic planning going on. If so much care is being taken with what to take and what to leave then it is fairly certain that other aspects are being thought about as well - and, fairly certain that each of these 'packers' is having lots of fun in the preparation - so it would be really surprising if any of them didn't have a brilliant pilgrimage!

Couple of things - not pack weight but things to put in. The clothes pegs thing - I too suggest using safety pins instead, then you have something to hold clothes together as well! But go for nappy pins .. errmm.. diaper pins, as they lock shut.

also, don't forget a good face cloth for when washing. Its other use is when you arrive at a fountain or a stream, you can then just cool your self all over with it and instantly feel marvellous. Of which, when you get to a large town you have to walk through stop before entering and use that face cloth to clean yourself up and cool yourself down. You may be tired and hot and you will be back in traffic and watching out for markers .. that freshening up before entering really helps.

Buen Camino all of you :wink:
 

chris m

New Member
Many thanks you good people here . I do appreciate it. I do have the light weight long Johns and a cotton inner bag but here in Brittany I have tried that and I think I'd freeze to death. So I think I'll just grit my teeth and persist with the 7 Kg . Seems like only yesterday when I was young I walked thirty miles a day , carrying as much as 80/90 lbs. [Gosh , was it really 50 years ago today when I was a 19 year old commando ? ]
 
Past OR future Camino
Via de la Plata 2010, Camino de Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo 2013, Olvidado, Invierno 2014
Maybe you can find a light sleeping bag?
I got one which is just 460 grams, I think. And it packs down very small.
Had it when walking vdlp in March-April and it was ok. A few cold nights, otherwise it was perfect.
If you have a 1000 gram wool blanket and maybe 300 gram cotton bag, then that is 1300. You can save 800-900 grams by taking a light weight sleeping bag. That's not bad.
 

Al the optimist

Veteran Member
I go with you on the nappy pins David, they are also lighter than pegs and take less room! As for the facecloth, I use my Buff which I wet at Fuente and wear under my hat to keep cool.
allan
 
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chris m

New Member
Susannafromsweden said:
Maybe you can find a light sleeping bag?
I got one which is just 460 grams, I think. And it packs down very small.
Had it when walking vdlp in March-April and it was ok. A few cold nights, otherwise it was perfect.
If you have a 1000 gram wool blanket and maybe 300 gram cotton bag, then that is 1300. You can save 800-900 grams by taking a light weight sleeping bag. That's not bad.

Many thanks. I have in fact now ordered a lightweight bag. [Blanket and liner is a hefty 1800 gr and my 4 season bag 2Kg.]
 
Past OR future Camino
Via de la Plata 2010, Camino de Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo 2013, Olvidado, Invierno 2014
columkille said:
Susannafromsweden said:
Maybe you can find a light sleeping bag?
I got one which is just 460 grams, I think. And it packs down very small.
Had it when walking vdlp in March-April and it was ok. A few cold nights, otherwise it was perfect.
If you have a 1000 gram wool blanket and maybe 300 gram cotton bag, then that is 1300. You can save 800-900 grams by taking a light weight sleeping bag. That's not bad.

Many thanks. I have in fact now ordered a lightweight bag. [Blanket and liner is a hefty 1800 gr and my 4 season bag 2Kg.]

Congrats! Hope you will be happy with it.
It's fun to weigh all the things.

I had a good day myself. I've finally found the lightest flip flops/slippers in the Universe.
They weigh 120 gram, a pair (yes 60 grams each!) in size 5.
Betula Energy.
Now I saved another 100 grams. That's a bar of chocolate. :wink:
 

chris m

New Member
You deserve the chocolate. I have walked today with the full pack [an equivalent weight added for the lightweight bag - which of course has not arrived yet.] And that's the solution - now under 6 kilos - and absolutely no problem ! Thanks again.
 

na2than

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
(2012)(2013)
last summer i worked so hard to keep my pack weight down...in my first week walking i was given a frizbee...amd half a kilo of boiled sweets...a t shirts...3 bouncy balls..and a couple of neckerchiefs.The summer season will see you wander through a great number of village fiestas...and they love to give pilgrims gifts.Allow foe the weight of scollop shells you may buy....and the "i ran with the bulls in Pamplona" t shirt.How could you say no to the plastic sword and shield set from a chinese bazaar that my 17 year old son decorated his pack with...?

In essence if it is winter...STAY WARM AND DRY.....in summer take some fun silly things...it is also a vacation to many of us.Gents take a small atomizer of after shave....ladies...bring your mascara if it makes you happy
 

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