Pilgrim Etiquette - LIVE from the Camino

[Dan the Man]

Hi All:

I am LOVING my Camino but I have run across a few things that I and others have found a tad "disrespectful " to other pilgrims and local farmers

1) plucking grapes from the vine from Pamplona to Burgos: We have seen many many pilgrims stop and not just taste grapes but load up plastic bags and walk or cycle off. I saw at least 30 people doing this. A few farmers were telling us how mad they were as their crops are their business and Pilgrims just raid their crops.

I have seen pilgrims pick a whole bunch, taste them and throw the bunch to the ground

2) Using Camino Paths as a toilette
I cannot count the number of times feces from humans along with toilette paper has been found directly on the Camino path? Why not use a bush?

Also at rest stations, can people not walk off the path and urinate instead of doing it where benches are and then scatter toilette paper about?

Many times we found this only meters from a town!


As pilgrims we enjoy so much that Spain offers . A tad of respect would be appreciated by all

Dan

 

[Deleted member 3000]

You are preaching to the choir, but it never hurts to be reminded!

 

[Robo]

Appalling behaviour.......... But those who behave in such ways are probably not on this forum

 

[PANO]

Hi All:

I am LOVING my Camino but I have run across a few things that I and others have found a tad "disrespectful " to other pilgrims and local farmers

1) plucking grapes from the vine from Pamplona to Burgos: We have seen many many pilgrims stop and not just taste grapes but load up plastic bags and walk or cycle off. I saw at least 30 people doing this. A few farmers were telling us how mad they were as their crops are their business and Pilgrims just raid their crops.

I have seen pilgrims pick a whole bunch, taste them and throw the bunch to the ground

2) Using Camino Paths as a toilette
I cannot count the number of times feces from humans along with toilette paper has been found directly on the Camino path? Why not use a bush?

Also at rest stations, can people not walk off the path and urinate instead of doing it where benches are and then scatter toilette paper about?

Many times we found this only meters from a town!


As pilgrims we enjoy so much that Spain offers . A tad of respect would be appreciated by all

Dan

Dan, what you are suggesting is that peregrinos on the camino should behave better than the average.
Why is this suggestion justified?
A person walking such long distance is automatically much closer to nature and sees things never possible otherwise.
The closer you are to things, the more you care and being exposed to nature brings it close. (often closer than you like!)
A pilgrim also encounters incredible kindness and empathy by total strangers, often by deeds and gesture offered smilingly to get across language barriers. The camino is full of this and I have never seen anything like it anywhere else; what's best, the camino is not driven by money and commerce, all basic services are provided for a pittance.

Persons responding to such unbelievable hospitality by leaving their trash, stealing farmers fruits (not talking of picking an occasional berry or grape) ARE NO PEREGRINOS. Lets shun them, deny them companionship, letting them know in no uncertain ways (AND BY GOOD EXAMPLE!) that they are definitely not belonging to the large camino family.

 

[Bernard duffy]

They are thieves.

 

[jsalt]

Hi All:

I am LOVING my Camino but I have run across a few things that I and others have found a tad "disrespectful " to other pilgrims and local farmers

1) plucking grapes from the vine from Pamplona to Burgos: We have seen many many pilgrims stop and not just taste grapes but load up plastic bags and walk or cycle off. I saw at least 30 people doing this. A few farmers were telling us how mad they were as their crops are their business and Pilgrims just raid their crops.

I have seen pilgrims pick a whole bunch, taste them and throw the bunch to the ground

2) Using Camino Paths as a toilette
I cannot count the number of times feces from humans along with toilette paper has been found directly on the Camino path? Why not use a bush?

Also at rest stations, can people not walk off the path and urinate instead of doing it where benches are and then scatter toilette paper about?

Many times we found this only meters from a town!


As pilgrims we enjoy so much that Spain offers . A tad of respect would be appreciated by all

Dan

Hi Dan

Glad you are enjoying your camino!

1) The cherry farmers along the Chemin du Puy get round this problem by setting up tables alongside the path with big bags of cherries. If you take a bag you should drop a couple of euros into the money box. Everyone was happy with this, and it seems to work. I saw pilgrims paying their coins into the box, and I saw nobody raiding the orchards. It’s a win/win situation.

2) Also on the Chemin du Puy, there are public toilets in every town, and often there is a public toilet set up just BEFORE a village, so there is usually no need for pilgrims to use the bush.

Try the Chemin du Puy for your next camino!

Jill

 

[roblsch]

G'day all - I was just thinking if anyone can tell me how the "original" pilgrims might have behaved while doing their camino(s). That was then and this is now but they/we should be cut from the same ethical cloth. N'est pas? - Cheers!

 

[Anniesantiago]

As said above, you're preaching to the choir.

 

[roblsch]

As said above, you're preaching to the choir.

I for one was not trying to be preachy - i'm honestly very curious as to the similarities and differences between the the pilgrims of yore and present day.

 

[naplesdon]

I have a long list of other offenses but I will spare you my lengthily litany.
I love the Camino but abhor the people who abuse their presence on it.

 

[CMSMackie]

Interesting to read this. I have yet to walk my Camino (Sept 2016), but fully intend to do as I do for my pets at home in my own neighborhood: Pick up after myself and, on occasion, those who forgot their bags or used up the last of their bags earlier in the walk (I have been caught a time or 2 short a bag when one of my beasties has been rather plentiful). We do a great deal of 'rough camping" and since I possess according to family and friends "the tiniest bladder in the world" it's become second nature to carry a roll of bags and roll of tissue to pack out what I packed in.
As for shunning those who have yet to learn the lesson of leaving no trace - I'd rather not.....I'm sure that there are things I need to learn and rather than be shunned I would appreciate others leading by example.

 

[mountaingoat999]

I always carry one of these. its ridged plastic from a outdoor shop.

for novice walkers I am assuming they are unaware.(I have to tell myself this) yet sometimes you do see the evidence in the middle of the path, and wonder...

ideally the best practice is to carry some scented or unscented doggy bags or similar(for winter with snow afoot, carry it out to the nearest place for disposal)..never bury menstruation waste. it will be dug up by animals and spread around.

other than winter remove toilet paper , doggy bag it and dispose as and when practical.

if we do not look after nature there is not going to be one for others to enjoy..

if wild camping. never defecate near water sources..rivers /streams or as seen by myself once next to a water font

hope this helps

 

[Kanga]

Forum members are hopefully well aware by now on the issues, on both raiding the fields and leaving waste. It is usually just thoughtlessness and a need for education. I recently met two very nice women who were strewing toilet paper about because they thought it was degrade able and therefore not a problem. So now I'm taking a few extra ziplock plastic bags with small cotton hankies inside - to hand out.

I'm not sure what medieval pilgrims did - hopefully one of you scholars can tell us. They probably had a greater appreciation of the value of agricultural assets, but they would also have been more dependant on living off the land. As for toileting, I assume they used leaves or whatever was handy. Toilet paper, I think, was not invented until the Crimea War. I remember reading that its introduction had a large beneficial effect on public health.

 

[mountaingoat999]

Forum members are hopefully well aware by now on the issues, on both raiding the fields and leaving waste. It is usually just thoughtlessness and a need for education. I recently met two very nice women who were strewing toilet paper about because they thought it was degrade able and therefore not a problem. So now I'm taking a few extra ziplock plastic bags with small cotton hankies inside - to hand out.

I'm not sure what medieval pilgrims did - hopefully one of you scholars can tell us. They probably had a greater appreciation of the value of agricultural assets, but they would also have been more dependant on living off the land. As for toileting, I assume they used leaves or whatever was handy. Toilet paper, I think, was not invented until the Crimea War. I remember reading that its introduction had a large beneficial effect on public health.

Wet wipes are are the worse item to carry for use for doing domestic duties, they are not biodegradable.
When I did my civilian version of my mountain leaders course, we talked about the impact on nature,going to the toilet etc, so explored what was used long ago. in places for example like Scotland. you can use sphagnum moss, squeeze any water in the first instance and use, it's ideal, it is also a natural antiseptic.

recently on a remote trek for one week I was leading four females and when I tried to discuss the proper use of the orange trowel and doing domestic duties... I was laughed at initially.

I would like to see "how to go the toilet on the camino" mentioned in camino guide books and at popular start points, in the form of a leaflet.

 

[roblsch]

FYI -
Toilet paper has an interesting history. It dates back to 6th century AD in China. But as much as most people in the U.S. take it for granted, not everyone uses it. It is too expensive to use for some, while others abstain for religious reasons. And, some people believe that using toilet paper is not healthy or hygienic.

Who Used Toilet Paper First?
It is known that the Chinese invented paper for wrapping and padding in the 2nd century BC. In 589, scholar and official Yan Zhitui wrote about using toilet paper. Therefore, between 2nd century BC and 6th century AD, paper began to be used for toileting in China. By the 9th century AD, visitors to China began commenting on the toilet paper. Some visitors were amazed that paper was being used for the task.

How Much Toilet Paper Were the Chinese Using?
By the 14th century, China was using toilet paper in incredible amounts. Emperor Hongwu's imperial family alone allegedly received 15,000 sheets of special soft and perfumed toilet paper in 1393. This paper was toilet paper as it is known today. That same year, the court received approximately 720,000 sheets of common toilet paper for general use. Moreover, modern day Zhejiang manufactured billions of sheets of toilet paper every year.

What Were Other Countries Using?
In the 14th century, while the Chinese were manufacturing and using toilet paper, others in the world had other inventions and methods for cleaning themselves. Romans often used a sponge on a stick. Elsewhere, the wealthy used fabrics such as lace and wool. The less privileged used rags, leaves, grass, hay, moss, wood shavings or similar items. Some even used their hand to clean themselves.

When Did Toilet Paper Become a Commodity?
Joseph Gayetty's Medicated Paper was the first commercially available toilet tissue in the U.S. The papers were sold in packages of flat sheets. It was available in 1857. The first patent for toilet paper was issued to Seth Wheeler of New York in 1853. In 1890, the Scott Paper Company, based in Pennsylvania, was the first company to manufacture toilet paper on a roll.

What Do Most People Use for Cleaning?
America alone uses billions of toilet tissue rolls annually. However, in many parts of the world, toilet tissue is not practical because of its cost or because of the lack of plumbing necessary to dispose of it. Materials such as animal fur, rags, leaves, or even the hands are used. Some countries feel that toilet paper is inadequate in cleaning after toileting. The bidet is preferred because the use of water is considered much more hygienic in many countries such as India.

The history of toilet paper begins around 6th century China and by the 14th century, the country was manufacturing massive quantities of the product. Other parts of the world had not caught on to the trend. But, in 1857, Joseph Gayetty introduced his Medicated Paper to the U.S. And, in 1890, the Scott Paper Company put toilet paper on a roll. Still, there are many parts of the world that do not use it on a large scale due to the cost, lack of plumbing, or the perspective that it is unhygienic.

 

[Anniesantiago]

My folks used the Sears catalogue in the outhouse.
(once the corn cobs were gone)

 

[Icacos]

My folks used the Sears catalogue in the outhouse.
(once the corn cobs were gone)

I was waiting for someone to come up with this! (The use of corn cobs for this purpose is new to me tho'.)

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Wait, wait, some people don't use toilet paper for religious reasons? I want to learn more about that.

Oh, and my memories of what passed for tp in the former USSR, while it still was and after. Either little squares or really shinny paper or something on a roll,that was the equivalent of samd paper. So when I went off to work in Ukraine for a year in 1993 I new my luxury items would include tp, as well as dishwashing soap. Tp only used when, well.... You know, truly needed. I had 5 suitcases of stuff with me; just great on the train from Kiev to where I was living.... Ah, to be young again. But I am getting off topic.

Now, if this is about education, and I believe that for most it is (when did tp become non biodegradable? Just like orange peals?), what about having a little hand out that goes with the credenciales, a little insert of sorts. Posters at the pilgrim office in SJPP, and other main albergues where many stay? We raised money for mattreses at St-Anton, why not for this. And since Ivar sits at home all day twiddling his thumbs, , perhpas he could advise on relevancy, cost for an insert in compostelas, etc. is there any value in this proposition? Until we find patrons to do what Sra Teresa has done on the Primitivo by building a loo on her property for us...

 

[roblsch]

Wait, wait, some people don't use toilet paper for religious reasons? I want to learn more about that.

Oh, and my memories of what passed for tp in the former USSR, while it still was and after. Either little squares or really shinny paper or something on a roll,that was the equivalent of samd paper. So when I went off to work in Ukraine for a year in 1993 I new my luxury items would include tp, as well as dishwashing soap. Tp only used when, well.... You know, truly needed. I had 5 suitcases of stuff with me; just great on the train from Kiev to where I was living.... Ah, to be young again. But I am getting off topic.

Now, if this is about education, and I believe that for most it is (when did tp become non biodegradable? Just like orange peals?), what about having a little hand out that goes with the credenciales, a little insert of sorts. Posters at the pilgrim office in SJPP, and other main albergues where many stay? We raised money for mattreses at St-Anton, why not for this. And since Ivar sits at home all day twiddling his thumbs, , perhpas he could advise on relevancy, cost for an insert in compostelas, etc. is there any value in this proposition? Until we find patrons to do what Sra Teresa has done on the Primitivo by building a loo on her property for us...

Toilet paper IS paper (fibre) so yes, save for the additives (coloring, bleaching agent and stuff like that) that may be present in traces (which can perhaps be neglected) you can consider it biodegradable.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Toilet paper IS paper (fibre) so yes, save for the additives (coloring, bleaching agent and stuff like that) that may be present in traces (which can perhaps be neglected) you can consider it biodegradable.

@Kanga said it's not. Kanga, did you mean ot becoase of additives amd bleach? If we birng "green tp" would it be different?

 

[C clearly]

@Kanga said it's not.

Remember my forum name and it's origin... !

Kanga actually said she met some people who

thought it was degradeable and therefore not a problem.

Kanga's dispute is probably with the fact that they thought it was not a problem because it is biodegradable. It IS biodegradable (and Kanga never said otherwise), but it is still a problem because of its quantity, asethetics and and general unpleasantness.

 

[Icacos]

Remember my forum name and it's origin... ! ........

Kanga's dispute is probably with the fact that they thought it was not a problem because it is biodegradable. It IS biodegradable (and Kanga never said otherwise), but it is still a problem because of its quantity, asethetics and and general unpleasantness.

@C clearly, you beat me to it!

 

[MichaelSG]

Toilet paper IS biodegradable. Sitting out on the ground, it will take about 4-6 months to degrade enough to be unrecognisable. It really should not be on the trail that long. Actually, it should not be there 4-6 weeks, 4-6 days or 4-6 hours either.

 

[Kanga]

@C clearly has my meaning correctly. Sorry if I expressed it badly. Toilet paper may be biodegradable but it takes ages to do so and is a blight on the landscape.

 

[wayfarer]

My folks used the Sears catalogue in the outhouse.
(once the corn cobs were gone)

When I was a kid old newspaper and moss were the order of the day in the outside "throne room".
PS there was no inside toilet.

 

[PANO]

I keep myself out of this TP-on-the-camino discussion, as the topic concerns almost exclusively women

 

[Deleted member 3000]

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
After changing one's own behavior, is it then time to simply look the other way while hiking? I cannot imagine walking in a froth about a bit of tissue paper!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I keep myself out of this TP-on-the-camino discussion, as the topic concerns almost exclusively women

... and everyone knows women's concerns are not worth bothering with.

 

[PANO]

... and everyone knows women's concerns are not worth bothering with.

That's not what I said, dear Rebekah....I just don't feel qualified!

PS: But the fact that I am posting shows that I am interested nevertheless.....

 

[Rebekah Scott]

BTW, on the crops etiquette front: It is wonderful and cute to see sunflowers "smiling" at you, and pilgrims' intitials plucked out of sunflowers, and arrows, too... all along the camino in the sunflower fields, happy pilgrims are plucking the seeds from sunflower heads to give one another a lift.
Those sunflowers belong to someone. Farmers make their living from those seeds. If you're leaving messages on sunflower-heads, you are vandalizing their crops.

 

[Lachance]

I keep myself out of this TP-on-the-camino discussion, as the topic concerns almost exclusively women

So, you always get to a toilet in time?
You don't do number 2's?
You don't - WIPE?!

 

[Robo]

After changing one's own behavior, is it then time to simply look the other way while hiking? I cannot imagine walking in a froth about a bit of tissue paper!

Being well prepared by reading so much on this Forum, I felt ready for the good and the bad.
And certainly did not get in a froth about anything What would be the point?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

So, you always get to a toilet in time?
You don't do number 2's?
You don't - WIPE?!

Maybe Pano is not getting enough fiber in his diet or probiotics

 

[PANO]

Maybe Pano is not getting enough fiber in his diet or probiotics

So, you always get to a toilet in time?
You don't do number 2's?
You don't - WIPE?!

Well, you need not to worry, I enjoy a healthy bowel movement and I always carry ample supply of these small bags, you know, the ones dog-owners use.....
As "hinting" at the REAL problem does not seem to get through, I am provoked to spell it out clearly now: TP and tissues so generously left along the camino is essentially a women problem. I know, I know....I'll be tarred, feathered and shot now that I have spelled it out, but I dare to do so anyway. We discussed the subject a few times on the way and the women in the group all agreed. Men go to a tree and take a leak; women squat and .....use tissue. Now that I've said it, I will take cover and wait a few weeks before logging-in to this forum again. Perhaps some kind soul will PM to let me know when its safe to log-in again.

 

[Sailor]

I find the Pilgrim Etiquette an interesting subject.

Now, can we get an update from Dan the Man or any other forum member currently on the camino?

Muchas gracias y que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.

 

[Bozzie]

There are some who think their "stuff" doesn't stink. It does! Taking care of your "stuff" and the tp involved is the responsible thing to do! Unfortunately, those who actually live on the caminos (or volunteers) go out and clean up the litter after we're gone so it doesn't end up being one giant sewer. It is unconscionable to me that people are so gross! I always use the public facilities whenever I stop for coffee or a snack and have never poo'd or pee'd in a field along the Way. If I ever have to, however, I will certainly clean up after myself!

 

[lbpierce]

In some ideal fantasy world I occasionally live in, when a person bought a pilgrim's passport, he/she would receive (and maybe even sign a receipt!) a list of pilgrim etiquette guidelines as well as safety guidelines, including information about the new AlertCops app that Ivar introduced us to. It's not that such a list would prevent anyone who doesn't give a hoot about pilgrim etiquette would change their behavior, but for some people, it might make a difference, especially if it is worded well.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

when a person bought a pilgrim's passport, he/she would receive a list of pilgrim etiquette guidelines as well as safety guidelines,

Even in a dozen languages, it is not likely to have an impact. People know etiquette. I think it would work only in that ideal fantasy world! Still, I will sign onto your effort.

 

[zakosdad]

If I can see your biodegradable TP - it has not degraded enough There are plenty of off trails to do your business - as one female member mentioned in another thread -
your undies will be full of sweat anyhow so why the bother to wipe - you will be washing them at the end of the day - right? As for me and my spouse we visit every toilet
we see, necessary or not. Keeps the outdoor visits to a bare minimum (get the pun bare minimum) oh never mind......

 

[gerardcarey]

What Were Other Countries Using?
[/QUOTE]Romans often used a sponge on a stick.[/QUOTE]

I must admit that this method does, for me at least, hold some appeal.
I will of course report back regarding it's efficacy, but only after I am able to ascertain the correct dimensions of each part of the specified equipment.
This will no doubt require several models to be tested and evaluated in order to arrive at the most efficient model.

But now it's all beginning to sound a little involved and complicated. I really don't know whether I can be bothered.
I've got better things to do with my time.
Like what I wonder?
Regds
Gerard

 

[roblsch]

What Were Other Countries Using?

Romans often used a sponge on a stick.[/QUOTE]

I must admit that this method does, for me at least, holds some appeal.
I will of course report back regarding it's efficacy, but only after I am able to ascertain the correct dimensions of each part of the specified equipment.
This will no doubt require several models to be tested and evaluated in order to arrive at the most efficient model.

But now it's all beginning to sound a little involved and complicated. I really don't know whether I can be bothered.
I've got better things to do with my time.
Like what I wonder?
Regds
Gerard[/QUOTE]
The ancient Roman version of "soap-on-a-rope"?

 

[CanPete]

Hi All:

I am LOVING my Camino but I have run across a few things that I and others have found a tad "disrespectful " to other pilgrims and local farmers

1) plucking grapes from the vine from Pamplona to Burgos: We have seen many many pilgrims stop and not just taste grapes but load up plastic bags and walk or cycle off. I saw at least 30 people doing this. A few farmers were telling us how mad they were as their crops are their business and Pilgrims just raid their crops.

I have seen pilgrims pick a whole bunch, taste them and throw the bunch to the ground

2) Using Camino Paths as a toilette
I cannot count the number of times feces from humans along with toilette paper has been found directly on the Camino path? Why not use a bush?

Also at rest stations, can people not walk off the path and urinate instead of doing it where benches are and then scatter toilette paper about?

Many times we found this only meters from a town!


As pilgrims we enjoy so much that Spain offers . A tad of respect would be appreciated by all

Dan

Unfortunately common sense is not that common . . .

 

[Lachance]

Well, you need not to worry, I enjoy a healthy bowel movement and I always carry ample supply of these small bags, you know, the ones dog-owners use.....

Great news on the bowels and doggy bags are a really good idea, assuming that they're black as they are here to keep the contents discreetly concealed. Cultures deal with these age old problems differently. Wonder what the ladies did centuries before tp... most pilgrims were tree sprinklers back then I guess. What about the new visitors - is Europe littered with tp from the Med to Berlin?

 

[naplesdon]

Well, you need not to worry, I enjoy a healthy bowel movement and I always carry ample supply of these small bags, you know, the ones dog-owners use.....
As "hinting" at the REAL problem does not seem to get through, I am provoked to spell it out clearly now: TP and tissues so generously left along the camino is essentially a women problem. I know, I know....I'll be tarred, feathered and shot now that I have spelled it out, but I dare to do so anyway. We discussed the subject a few times on the way and the women in the group all agreed. Men go to a tree and take a leak; women squat and .....use tissue. Now that I've said it, I will take cover and wait a few weeks before logging-in to this forum again. Perhaps some kind soul will PM to let me know when its safe to log-in again.

Pano, I think you just stepped into a stinking pile of ..it.

 

[naplesdon]

When I lived in West Africa, it was done with the hand you did not eat your food with.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

the European answer: Bidets. They're not just for laundry and foot-soaking.

 

[Annette london]

Even in a dozen languages, it is not likely to have an impact. People know etiquette. I think it would work only in that ideal fantasy world! Still, I will sign onto your effort.

As a woman I agree it is the women who leave all the tissues on the ground along the way and yes it is disgusting to see and must really annoy the local people.now, everyone has to pee and that's that but why don't women use the same tissue over and over again. For heavens sake it's only pee not a toxic substance. I take about 12inches of toilet paper with me in the morning and use it for the day. It's not like it needs to be wrung out or anything after a pee and believe me I can pee for the world! I have never yet left a tissue on the way .also if women feel they can't use the same tissue again then why don't they take the used one with them and dispose of it in the cafe toilets when stopping for a coffee. It's not right that locals or volunteers should be cleaning up after us women.

 

[Kathar1na]

Pano, I think you just stepped into ...

Quite the opposite is the case, it seems to me. Pano does address the issue. All this talk about shovels and Romans and doggy bags and the Pack it in Pack it out slogan (which I associate mainly with "outdoors" in the United States) ... I doubt that you will make all these "Sunday" walkers - the overwhelming majority of camino pilgrims are not hardcore outdoor types - adopt such methods.

But I do think that the "women's" problem, i.e. using toilet paper to wipe away urine, could be addressed by better information. I don't think the guidebooks - mainly written by men - do even mention the issue, I certainly don't remember having read anything about it and I have built up an impressive collection of guidebooks for St James/St Jacques roads over the years. It had not occurred to me that wet urine-soaked paper is a main cause for this disgusting mess.

I hasten to add that I am the proud owner of "How to Shit in the Woods" and that I have trekked in arid areas at high altitude so I am quite aware of how to deal with the "bigger" problem. Most people on the caminos aren't and it does not seem to occur to them that THEY are the problem - not as an individual but because they are part of such masses of people sharing the same space (and most of it is owned by someone else).

 

[Lachance]

the European answer: Bidets. They're not just for laundry and foot-soaking.

About 40 years ago, on our honeymoon, we saw a bidet for the first time, in a new hotel in Singapore. It was button operated. Standing well back, we pressed the button. A geyser erupted and bored a hole through the ceiling. I hope to this day some poor European didn't trustingly sit on it. Especially on their honeymoon.

 

[Magwood]

I was incredulous and quite cross about an incident on my recent camino to Finisterre. I had met a French woman in Santiago (in bar Tertulia initially, when I thought she might be a forum member). Over several days we chatted briefly when passing. I was taking a break in a bar (having availed myself of the facilities) when I saw her pass by. She waved out. I left very shortly afterwards and I witnessed her squatting totally in view of anyone passing. I was flabbergasted that she had not called into the bar to relieve herself but chose to do it a few meters away in full view. People can be very odd - even pilgrims!

And thank you @Lachance for your hilarious anecdote - just what I needed to cheer me up!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I was flabbergasted that she had not called into the bar to relieve herself

Maybe she did not think that the bar owner was maintaining the restroom for the non-patron pilgrims?

 

[Kathar1na]

I was incredulous

What did you find so unbelievable: that a person would do this or that a woman would do this?

I have stoically walked past men standing on the path and facing trees but frankly ...

 

[mountaingoat999]

Quite the opposite is the case, it seems to me. Pano does address the issue. All this talk about shovels and Romans and doggy bags and the Pack it in Pack it out slogan (which I associate mainly with "outdoors" in the United States) ... I doubt that you will make all these "Sunday" walkers - the overwhelming majority of camino pilgrims are not hardcore outdoor types - adopt such methods.

But I do think that the "women's" problem, i.e. using toilet paper to wipe away urine, could be addressed by better information. I don't think the guidebooks - mainly written by men - do even mention the issue, I certainly don't remember having read anything about it and I have built up an impressive collection of guidebooks for St James/St Jacques roads over the years. It had not occurred to me that wet urine-soaked paper is a main cause for this disgusting mess.

I hasten to add that I am the proud owner of "How to Shit in the Woods" and that I have trekked in arid areas at high altitude so I am quite aware of how to deal with the "bigger" problem. Most people on the caminos aren't and it does not seem to occur to them that THEY are the problem - not as an individual but because they are part of such masses of people sharing the same space (and most of it is owned by someone else).

Hi Katharina

good to read your post.

I also own a old copy of the same book....most self respecting hill walker-trekker does know how to "leave no trace".as you yourself do.

I carry the orange trowel because I am also a ML(mountain leader) and this is the way forward... we have a duty to protect the outdoor environment for many reasons.
one reason urinating is a issue anywhere in the modern world is because it is anti-social and unacceptable. so I keep being informed, some people do find it offensive when anybody male or female just decide to take a pee right there in the middle of the camino,this is not just a generation issues here.

urine is sterile yet constant urination as is common in the same spot on the camino just makes the area stink...
a lot of people whom walk the camino have no outdoor awareness of the effects of there toilet habits on others and the impact on the landscape.

some newbie walker first time out walking and away from toilets are caught out and just go on the trail because it has not be thought out or mention before hand.
and some just don't care..others might have bladder problems who knows .....

finding a spot to sit and have a sandwich does annoy me when I see menstruation items discarded........I decide to remove these myself, because it bothers me and because It's simple to do,I place a hand into a bag and collect the item. dispose of next suitable bin......there are females on this forum who do this and it would help if they also seen to support "leaving no trace" on here so its reinforced because it is a problem and needs dealing with.

women are not the only ones leaving discarded underwear liners.. very common now to find these items used instead of compeed and used classically on the heel of the foot..soldiers use these all the time now, we did, on top of the footwear insole, then removed as daily or in some cases whilst walking.....perfect for keeping your foot dry...they are also sterile.

I have seen the slight adhesive ones used on the sides of pilgrims hips who's rucksack have rubbed ,then discarded along the way.
so as mention it's women who leaves this items, not so.......tampons (the very small ones)are ideal to place between your toes sometimes and work well.

The problem was created by those who walk the camino and its only right it is not left to anybody else other than all of us to rectify this problem.


finding the odd segment of toilet paper in a very remote location, is not a huge issue,nature will eventually take care of it....most modern day instruction given to people who take groups for example do educate there walkers. This I year I saw three groups of 50 young people about 30 minutes apart. all stop as and when a factility approaches and use the toilet (no purchases)..Leading by example....I was so impressed I mentioned this to the teachers...

 

[7wood]

Take nothing only pictures leave nothing only footprints.

 

[Kathar1na]

I'm not sure what medieval pilgrims did - hopefully one of you scholars can tell us. They probably had a greater appreciation of the value of agricultural assets, but they would also have been more dependant on living off the land.

I am not a scholar but I would also be interested to know. ... Taking fruit from farmed land is theft. It is theft today and it was theft then. Perhaps people used to be more aware of this and more afraid of punishment?

There used to be a legal concept (Mundraub in German speaking countries, perhaps maraudage in French - I am not certain that it is equivalent) which meant that you got off with a lighter punishment if you stole fruit/vegetable/etc because you were acutely starving. But we must not imagine the same landscape as today. There were more forests and wooded areas than today. There was no large scale farming, no huge agricultural machinery. People were working on the land most of the time, with the exception of winter. They would notice trespassing and stealing. There was also a kind of local police whose task it was to control and protect agricultural land against theft/early harvesting/etc.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I was waiting for someone to come up with this! (The use of corn cobs for this purpose is new to me tho'.)

Oh corn cobs are HEAVENLY compared to the Sears Catalogue!
Soft and fluffy and just the right size.

On the other hand, if you know HOW to crumple and break down the catalogue pages, well.... nevermind

 

[dougfitz]

I learnt véry early in my youth that the grapes on the vines on the way to school had a very short time between when they were ripe enough to be eaten, and being harvested, and I was not very good at getting it right. Fortunately, when I walked the CF, it was way too early in the season to even contemplate testing my moral fibre on this, but were I to walk later in the year, I might defer to the experiences of my childhood!