pilgrim numbers

[andy.d]

The Green Pilgrimage Network have come up with some fascinating figures on the number of people who go on pilgrimage.

I've put the figures and some brief reflection here:

http://pilgrimpace.wordpress.com/2011/1 ... m-numbers/

Andy

 

[sillydoll]

Last year it was estimated that over 10 million pilgrims visited Santiago. I think the 200,000 pilgrims to Santiago de Compostela this article refers to are only walking/cycling pilgrims.

Millions of pilgrims visit the tomb of St James every year and only a small percentage walk there.

Here are some numbers from YOUR CAMINO.

1909 – 140 000
1915 – 103 000
1920 – 112 000
1926 – 90 000
1937 – 134 000
1938 – 8 000
1943 – 200 000
1948 – 500 000
1954 – 700 000
1965 – 2.5 million
1971 – 4 million (491 Compostelas)
1976 – 5 million (243 Compostelas)

2010 - Between 10 and 12 million.

If these numbers are so very wrong, how accurate ar the rest of the numbers?

PS: Maybe Johnnie can find out the real pilgrims numbers since 1976 to 2010.

 

[andy.d]

I guess there are a number of really difficult questions about how you can possibly measure the actual number of pilgrims anywhere - but thanks for pointing out the obviously flawed data for Santiago.

I love how these figures point to the global and multi-faith dimensions of pilgrimage,

Andy

 

[sillydoll]

I am busy reading The Archetype of Pilgrimage by Jean Dalby Clift and Wallace B Clift. They discuss the archetypal universality of pilgrimage, something that Phil Cousineau also writes of in his book The Art of Pilgrimage.
The numbers quoted on the Green Pilgrimage Network are interesting. They quote on 25 destinations. In the Archetype of Pilgrimage they talk about over 200 different 'dates' that serve as annual focal points for pilgrimage events in Western Europe alone.
If one takes Holy Year numbers for St James, Santiago would be number three on their list.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Hola

The number of compostelas/certificates issued - so far just over 180,000 this year is an accurate figure - every time a compostela/certificate is issued the information which pilgrims write on the form is entered into the database.

The total numbers of visitors to Santiago is hugely controversial and very political. There is no way of counting them to begin with and therefore they are always estimates. It is claimed that whatever party is in power in the ayuntamiento grossly inflates the "real" number to justify their public expenditure. The opposition parties then dispute the figure. The figure of 12 million claimed for last year is widely held to be laughable.

John

 

[Abbeydore]

Oh we like a good laugh :lol: :lol:

So how many extras would you guess over the 180k, that are 'tourists', por favor!?

Maybe how many beds in Santiago, how full %, x 365 = ?

 

[JohnnieWalker]

So how many extras would you guess over the 180k, that are 'tourists', por favor!?

That was the key question and the answer is that it is impossible to tell. Bed numbers don't really help as I suspect that many (perhaps even the majority) of non walking pilgrims come in by bus, see the city then move on.

 

[sillydoll]

Stats figures are almost impossible to quantify and analysing and creating stats on Santiago pilgrims is a bit more complex than Muslim pilgrims to Haj or Sikh pilgrims to Amritsar (which attracts over 100,000 pilgrims per week.)

There are many categories of pilgrims, and tourists to Santiago.
Not all the 180 000 walking/cycling people who arrive in Santiago are pilgrims, and not all of the
± 10 million who visit Santiago by other means are tourists.

There are millions of Catholic pilgrims who arrive by bus, plane, train or car - attend mass, make confession, visit the tomb of the saint, say a prayer for the Holy Father and earn an indulgence. These pilgrims are no different from pilgrims to Rome, Jerusalem, Lourdes etc.

There are tourists who arrive in Santiago by car, planes, bus or train to see the sights, perhaps attend a mass and then move on to other cities.

There are walking Catholic pilgrims - those who arrive at the tomb of the saint, make confession, attend mass, say a prayer for the Holy Father and earn an indulgence (and a Compostela).

There are 'other' walking pilgrims - those who arrive at the tomb of the saint, attend a pilgrims' mass and earn the Compostela but who will tell you that they are not religious pilgrims.

Not all of the 'pilgrims' on the Caminos at any given time even plan to arrive in Santiago.
The Sociology department of the Cathedral, headed by Don Juan Jose Cebrian (brother pf Don Genaro, who heads the Pilgrims' office) estimated the number of pilgrims on the Camino at any one time, and those who claim the Compostela. to be 5 to 1. He came to this conclusion by using the registration in albergues, data given when the credential is obtained, and other sources, such as the tourist information offices throughout the Camino. The vast majority of pilgrims from Spain complete the Camino in four stages, as do a great many Latin Americans who only have two weeks vacation. There are also some pilgrims who do not complete the pilgrimage due to illness, injury etc. And then there are some who do not request, or get a Compostela (like me) for one reason or another.

I remember reading somewhere that all Catholic pilgrims'who visit Santiago with the intention of earning an indulgence and who comply with the requirements, are counted and are given a little prayer card. Perhaps there are stats on those pilgrims?

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Sil - I agree with almost all of what you say. However whilst the tradition of obtaining an "indulgence" - i.e time off in purgatory, is still maintained in the Cathedral in Santiago and still officially sanctioned by the Catholic Church it is no longer either widely accepted or practiced by the vast majority of Catholics. Unless I am very much mistaken nowadays catholics find the whole notion of an "indulgence" no more than an embarrassing medieval fundraising device with nothing to do with the forgiveness of sins.

The answer to your specific question is that no records are kept of those who fulfil the "requirements for the indulgence"

 

[Deleted member 3000]

What is a Pilgrim, and what is a Pilgrimage?

 

[sillydoll]

OH NO!!! Falcon, PLEASE - not that old chestnut - again!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

It is hard to count them if we cannot define them!

 

[JohnnieWalker]

What is a Pilgrim, and what is a Pilgrimage?

Go on google it Falcon!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

OK. Everyone at Lourdes seems to be a supplicant, not a pilgrim.

 

[andy.d]

Can you be a supplicant and a pilgrim? I would have thought so and probably have been myself

Andy

 

[Deleted member 3000]

In Venn diagram form, some Pilgrims are supplicants, however, there are many pilgrims who are not supplicants, and many supplicants who are not pilgrims. Imagine just two Olympic circles intersecting.

 

[andy.d]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie1Dq5-cYgY

 

[fraluchi]

It is hard to count them if we cannot define them!

A thread worthwhile another look!
To-day is St. James day with the media showing fireworks and commercial blablabla in Santiago de Compostela, whilst we haven't defined what a pilgrim is or should be.
The "pilgrims' office" has probably been registering a large number of arrivals who cannot honestly explain what a pilgrim means, or whether they did a physical/cultural/mental exercise rather than a maybe spiritual/religious "pilgrimage".
When asked about their intentions at the "pilgrims' office" registration, people may opt with answers to standard questions, the results of which appear in the monthly "pilgrims" statistics.
There is nothing wrong with either of these people, but IMHO the supposedly term "pilgrimage" and "pilgrim" is definitely taking an increasing commercial overtone.
But who am I to question these issues :?:

 

[tyrrek]

It is hard to count them if we cannot define them!

Yes, this is true. It's also true that stats tend to be collected for a wider purpose. So for the Pilgrim Office in Santiago they will (quite rightly) want to know how many people are arriving for Compostelas so they can plan premises and staff accordingly. The same figures may not be as relevant to the tourist office in Estella, for example.

If the purpose of the figures are to show growth/decline in pilgrim numbers the only thing that really matters is using a consistent source, however flawed. So unless there is some reason to believe that pilgrims are becoming more/less inclined to walk in different patterns or to request a Compostela when they arrive in Santiago, that would be a decent proxy for growth in the overall level of pilgrims (whatever that level may be).

We can be a bit parochial as pilgrims and forget that SdC is also a significant city and regional capital, so hotel rooms will also house people on business etc. It's probably not a good measure, not least for the reasons already described.

I was a bit surprised by Sil's figures showing the huge fall after 1937. I know the Civil War was on, but I would have expected the drop to happen a year or so earlier. (I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm just surprised.)

Buen Camino!

 

[jirit]

Here is a recent list on the number of pilgrims per site. Santiago receives 1.5 million pilgrim visitors per year .

The link to the blog in the first posting shows only the number of pilgrims that arrived by foot or bike. The 1.5 million includes the majority that arrive by other means (train, plane, car, etc)

To suggest that 10-12 million pilgrims came in 2010 is extreme - especially when most of the data I have seen suggests the entire city only receives 4.5 - 6.0 million visitors annually.

http://www.arcworld.org/downloads/ARC pilgrimage statistics 155m 11-12-19.pdf

Given the numbers I have seen elsewhere and the numbers they show for other locations, I willing to believe these numbers for Santiago