Pilgrimage intention

[Matthew Fitzhenry]

I'd like to get opinions on a thought I had. What if you have the intention to begin your Camino, but in the end could not begin physically walking when you wished? If you were still to actively seek out sites of pilgrimage without setting out by walking from place A to Santiago at that specific time. For example, if I were to get my credential stamped at a site of pilgrimage (Let's say Lisieux or a cathedral somewhere) but needed to delay the beginning of walking for another year. Does it still count?
Regards,
Matt

 

[Paddington Bear]

I see a pilgrimage as a journey, especially a long one, made to some sacred place as an act of religious or spiritual devotion. Along the journey, there are many sacrifices involved. There is suffering, hunger, pain, exhaustion, extreme weather conditions, crowds etc. All of these involve self denial in order to obtain the ultimate goal and reach the final destination.

The stamps in your credential verify that you have walked as a pilgrim and completed the journey. Do you think that what you are suggesting fits with a definition of a pilgrimage?

Ultimately your conscience will give you the answer. No one else's opinion matters.

 

[Robo]

For example, if I were to get my credential stamped at a site of pilgrimage (Let's say Lisieux or a cathedral somewhere) but needed to delay the beginning of walking for another year. Does it still count?
Regards,
Matt

Count as what Matt? Not sure I get the point.
Why would you get a stamp and then wait a year? Just get a stamp when you eventually start your Pilgrimage.

 

[Felipe]

Your query is somewhat confusing.
If your question is about the validity of your credential when you delay your pilgrimage, yes, this will not be a problem. Actually, many pilgrims do their pilgrimage in consecutive years, one or two weeks every time. The Compostela Archbishopric states that (my translation) "The Way can be done in many phases, as long as they are ordered chronologically and geographically".
If it is about starting in a different place (instead of the annotated in the credential), this will not be a problem, either. Just
write out in the pertinent place of your credential the new departing point.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Your query is somewhat confusing.
If your question is about the validity of your credential when you delay your pilgrimage, yes, this will not be a problem. Actually, many pilgrims do their pilgrimage in consecutive years, one or two weeks every time. The Compostela Archbishopric states that (my translation) "The Way can be done in many phases, as long as they are ordered chronologically and geographically".
If it is about starting in a different place (instead of the annotated in the credential), this will not be a problem, either. Just
write out in the pertinent place of your credential the new departing point.

I don't think he is asking about Camino technicalities but about what makes a pilgrimage. I would tend to say it has nothing to do with a credencial and what ever stamps may be on it.

 

[Matthew Fitzhenry]

OK sorry, I will explain more clearly hopefully.
I have the ultimate intention to walk from Mont-Saint-Michel to Santiago dC. I have a credential with me ready to go. I wish to visit other sites to make a pilgrimage (including sites of religious significance, such as Lisieux and not exactly religious, i.e. the Western Front (WW1), and places in between). I want to record the places of pilgrimage by credential. If I am not able to walk any distance this time, but continue at a later date to finish at Santiago. Where is the starting point? I guess it is still considered a pilgrimage as it is my own. I guess ultimately it only matters to me personally what makes a pilgrimage. I guess I have answered my own question.

Archbishopric states that (my translation) "The Way can be done in many phases, as long as they are ordered chronologically and geographically".

This is kind of what I was getting at also. It would be ordered chronologically, true, but how is keeping it geographically ordered important? But yes, in my mind my pilgrimage would be geographically ordered.

 

[Felipe]

So, I understand that you will be between the frontier with Belgium, Lisieux and the walk from Mont Saint Michel, not necessarily in this order. I assume that you intend to do part of this with cars, buses or trains.
If for you it is a kind of pilgrimage, it is (btw, the WWI battle places are not exactly religious places, but they are considered with reverence in France; and I have seen lists of "sons of the parish fallen in wars, defending the motherland" in churches). If you want to register your travels in your credential, do it. It is a personal thing.
There is a specific credential for Mont Saint Michel , the "carnet du miquelot".
I have not been there, but apparently you can get further info in www.lescheminsdumontsaintmichel.com (but the English version of the webpage is simplified; try the French one). Most lodgments in this way seem to be hostals and hotels (and some families that receive pilgrims) , so I suppose they will not mind your detours, and anyway, your intention is spiritual.
As for the "compostela" certificate (if you are interested) you never know with the staff of the pilgrim's bureau. Theoretically, they only check the last 100 km, but they are sometimes quite unpredictable.
Buen camino!

 

[Anemone del Camino]

but how is keeping it geographically ordered important? But yes, in my mind my pilgrimage would be geographically ordered.

Matthew,

My take is that you may be wanting to blend "your"pilgrimage (some religious sites and others of hostoric and human importance, with a Camino.

Caminos are about one thing: getting to Santiago. That is why chronological and geographical order matters. In fact, getting to the tomb of St-James is the goal.

If your goal is not getting to Santiago then perhaps the Credencial is not the way to document your visit to other sites. In fact, the Pilgrim Office says: "The Credencial has two practical purposes: 1) access to hostels offered by the Christian hospitality of the Way, 2) serve as certification in applying for the “Compostela” at the Cathedral of Santiago, which certifies you have made the pilgrimage". The sites you want to visit, although they have spiritual and religious value to you, have nothing to do with getting to Santiago and would not contribute to earning a Compostela.

I am one of those who does not walk for religious reasons, but one who respects the spirtit of this route as a pilgrimage, and its history, its purpose. I like black and white. I like compartments. And I get irked by the appropriation and modification of the Camino and its tradition to accomodate individual comfort and convinience, this "it's MY Camino" attitude. This would include wanting to use something that belongs to the Caminos (the credencial) to achieve something unrelated to it (your "other"pilgrimage").

Got visit the other sites. But then experience the Camino. Two different things. And use your credencial for the purpose it is intended, to document your walk to visit the tomb of St-James and earn a Compostela.

 

[Kitsambler]

My answer is really aimed at subsequent readers rather than just the OP. Here in this forum, there seem to be two broad trains of thought as to the nature of pilgrimage: (1) a physical journey from one designated religious shrine to another, accomplished through "sacrifices, ... suffering, hunger, pain, exhaustion..."; (2) a transformative spiritual journey accomplished through personal interior work. A wonderful journey would incorporate both of course.

So the purpose of a credencial is basically an administrative one: to document the physical journey in order to determine eligibility for certain benefits that accrue to "genuine pilgrims" such as reduced-rate lodging and the Compostela/ certificate of completion. One can use it as a personal memoir, of course, but that's not the original design. And as described elsewhere, the only fixed requirement for the Compostela is to have double stamps for the last 100 km, from Sarria to Santiago. Anything else is, as they say, gravy.

My recommendation to the OP would be to get two credencials: stamp both at Mont-St-Michel, use one for the battleground tour as a memoir, and the other for the trek to Santiago.

 

[JohnCP43]

Matt - speaking from my experience, I did something like you seem to be describing on my first camino. My son was living in Paris so I got a French credential. We travelled largely by car to a variety of sites, most religious, many historical. I stamped them in my credential as mementos if you will of my "pilgrimage". When I started at a later time walking to Santiago, I drew a line below my earlier sellos and entered those that "counted" to satisfy requirements for obtaining a Compostela. Absolutely no issues at Pilgrims Office.

 

[Introibo]

I can't see a problem with the OPs intention. When I'd finished my CP there was room for more stamps.
When I went to Rome for the opening of the Holy Year I took my credencial with me and collected
stamps from the pilgrim Basilicas in Rome as I walked between them. I finished in the main sacristy in
St Peter's, a little different from the sacristy at my church back home. The official who got me entry was
pleased to see my CP stamps as his wife was from Tui ! It's a fantastic memento of my pilgrimage year.

 

[Matthew Fitzhenry]

So basically, as long as you travel from some point further than 100km to SdC, for the compostella, the starting point is not so important. Therefore anything further to this is for my own benefit. As I feel my intended travels will be part of an overarching 'pilgrimage', I was looking to have a physical record (i.e. by using the credential) of where I visited.
Thanks for your replies,
Matt

 

[JabbaPapa]

I'd like to get opinions on a thought I had. What if you have the intention to begin your Camino, but in the end could not begin physically walking when you wished? If you were still to actively seek out sites of pilgrimage without setting out by walking from place A to Santiago at that specific time. For example, if I were to get my credential stamped at a site of pilgrimage (Let's say Lisieux or a cathedral somewhere) but needed to delay the beginning of walking for another year. Does it still count?

I think you're talking about the religious intention, right ?

I think that as long as the intention is alive and corresponds to a feasible future project, then any unforeseen delays are quite secondary. Certainly you can keep the intention alive by such actions, especially in prayer, though it could also be kept alive by other means. Only if you found yourself completely unable to fulfil that intention at any time in the future would an action become necessary, to see your spiritual director or confessor to request to be relieved of your intention.

Otherwise, from a more practical point of view, you would not need to get a new credencial just because it might end up having a wrong start date filled in at the front ; whether you wished to correct that date or not on the document is entirely up to you. For both the religious and practical purposes related to the Compostela certificate, it's still just the final 100 K on foot or 200 K on bike or by horse etc. that count, not any dates or stamps prior to that section.

 

[JabbaPapa]

OK sorry, I will explain more clearly hopefully.
I have the ultimate intention to walk from Mont-Saint-Michel to Santiago dC. I have a credential with me ready to go. I wish to visit other sites to make a pilgrimage (including sites of religious significance, such as Lisieux and not exactly religious, i.e. the Western Front (WW1), and places in between). I want to record the places of pilgrimage by credential. If I am not able to walk any distance this time, but continue at a later date to finish at Santiago.

This is completely non-problematic from both the religious and the practical points of view.

Great project BTW !!

Where is the starting point? I guess it is still considered a pilgrimage as it is my own. I guess ultimately it only matters to me personally what makes a pilgrimage. I guess I have answered my own question.

From the "purist" point of view ---

hmmmmm, I guess that you seem to want to consider the earlier visits as being a part of your pilgrimage, and if these are important to your intention for the pilgrimage, then they should certainly be considered as a part of it. It would therefore IMO be entirely appropriate to collect stamps for your credencial in those locations, and of course OTOH by doing so it does mean that from the time you start doing so, your pilgrimage will basically have started, even if the walking itself only started much later.

For the whole time between those earlier visits and your setting off from Mont Saint-Michel you would be a pilgrim, and I'd personally advise you to keep this in mind during that period.

As for the starting point, well that's clear from your intention as you have expressed it : I have the ultimate intention to walk from Mont-Saint-Michel to Santiago dC.

Might I suggest the following for your credencial -- keep the first spot on it blank. When you begin your walk, get it stamped in that spot at Mont Saint-Michel, and perhaps get a second stamp following the others, that you will have collected at the other locations. That way, your first stamp on the credencial will be the Mont Saint-Michel one, and the same stamp will also be there as a continuation of the broader pilgrimage began earlier.