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Please don't treat donativos as free

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simoneva

New Member
Past OR future Camino
frances (2016)
norte/primitivo (2017)
aragon/frances/salvador/norte (2018)
frances (2019)
The other day I made a critical comment about food at an albergue. Another pilgrim said I should not complain as it was free.

If donativos are treated as free then there will be no more donativos.
Everyone can afford to donate something. Most pilgrims can afford to donate at least as much as they would pay in another albergue.

So please think carefully about your donation and don't think of them as free!
 
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David Tallan

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
1989
I also tend not to think as my donation as paying for what I have received but rather as paying for what I want tomorrow's pilgrims to receive.

If we think about our donations as payments for what we ourselves received, there is an unfortunate chance that a downward spiral could develop. You get some people with the misconception that it is free, leading to less funding to provide for the next day's pilgrims. Those pilgrims receive less, and so donate less, meaning that the albergue continues to have to provide less. And so on.

On the other hand, given the benevolence with which most pilgrims consider fellow pilgrims, if we consider ourselves as wanting to pay for the next, we are likely to want to contribute more so that they can receive even more than we have. And donativo albergues being the non-profit entities they are, our generous donations will ensure that future pilgrims can receive even more than we did.
 

jeanineonthecamino

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances 2021, 2022
Yes, I ended up giving double at some donativo albergues because I knew a couple pilgrims were not giving money. Donation should be equivalent to at least what you would pay for a bed municipal elsewhere and if a meal provided, should include at least the equivalent for a meal you would pay for a similar meal elsewhere. Donations given today provide meals for tomorrow.
 

JesperK

New Member
Past OR future Camino
CF 2013-2016x2-2018 CP:2014 CF:(2022)
Yes, I ended up giving double at some donativo albergues because I knew a couple pilgrims were not giving money. Donation should be equivalent to at least what you would pay for a bed municipal elsewhere and if a meal provided, should include at least the equivalent for a meal you would pay for a similar meal elsewhere. Donations given today provide meals for tomorrow.
That's exactly how it should be.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Past OR future Camino
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Everyone can afford to donate something.
There are a few exceptions to the rule.

Which is :
Most pilgrims can afford to donate at least as much as they would pay in another albergue.

So please think carefully about your donation and don't think of them as free!
Well said !!

I'll just add that the richer Pilgrims should give more than that.
 

simoneva

New Member
Past OR future Camino
frances (2016)
norte/primitivo (2017)
aragon/frances/salvador/norte (2018)
frances (2019)
Truly, if the donativo doesn’t meet one’s expectations, then the pilgrim should be motivated to give more so that it meets the expectations of the next pilgrims…. THAT is the Way.
Paying more for better service encourages better service....and vice versa. I am happy to donate more if they have made more effort.
 

Albertinho

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2013, 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2022
The other day I made a critical comment about food at an albergue. Another pilgrim said I should not complain as it was free.

If donativos are treated as free then there will be no more donativos.
Everyone can afford to donate something. Most pilgrims can afford to donate at least as much as they would pay in another albergue.

So please think carefully about your donation and don't think of them as free!
I even can tell you a worse experience.
At Casa Fernanda there used to be a carton Whisky jar to put in the donation.
But there where “pilgrims”😏 who did not donate but stole the money out of the jar.
Reason for my wife and me to buy a metal letterbox with a lock in and gave it to Fernanda. She still uses it as I saw a few weeks ago when I stayed with them for a couple of days. Disgusting these “ pilgrims”
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
1989
Paying more for better service encourages better service....and vice versa. I am happy to donate more if they have made more effort.
But if one albergue provides welcoming tea and biscuits and a communal meal and another provides no food and lacks toilet paper in the washroom, the difference may not be in the amount of effort on the part of the volunteers but rather on the funding they have to work with. Donating less because one has received less doesn't motivate them to do more. It just continues to prevent it.
 

J Willhaus

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2016, 2022
It depends on the location and what the practices are in that facility. At some donativos, the money is in a box with the lid open and pilgrims have full access. Although we kept an eye on it and took large bills out, we were instructed at Granon always to leave at least 6 Euros in the box and accessible as a part of their storied tradition.

In other locations where we have been assigned the money is kept in a locked box or wall slot. In some places we had no access to the money and in others we were to get the money out and count it.

We were told that 3 euros per pilgrim was about the average daily income in one place where we volunteered two years ago regardless of whether meals were served. Anything more than that was considered above the norm. Some people were quite generous and others left nothing. It is better on the hospitalero side not to know how much is given each day. It encourages you to treat each pilgrim with the same hospitality.

As pilgrims we usually give more than we would at a private albergue because we do know that others have nothing to give. We stay at these places because we might get assigned as volunteers there one day and we believe in the donativo concept.
 
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Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances; Aragones; VdlP; Madrid-Invierno; Levante
I have volunteered at donative albergues and I have stayed at them, beginning at Granon, on my first camino. I never left less than 20 euros, as I hoped to pay my way and help others. I listened to the stories of the pilgrims, my night at Granon. Many were poor and doing a camino the only way that they could: a soldier invalided out of the military and trying to live on his pension, a student who had bought an air ticket to Spain, then found that her earnings for the summer before her pilgrimage were inadequate for other expenses, but went anyway, a woman who walked a very long distance to Granon on badly blistered feet, because she could not afford to stay anywhere else. I met all three of these at the dinner table in Granon on my first night. They taught me what it was to make a pilgrimage in faith.
 

J Willhaus

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2016, 2022
We explain the donativo as "giving what your heart and your pocketbook may allow". This may mean helping to wash dishes or providing a kindness to others or helping to prepare the meal or providing music/song for others. For those who can and want to, a donation box is available. For others, there is no pressure or need to give. We are to show the pilgrim where donations can be shared and nothing more. We do explain that today's donations help tomorrow's pilgrims. We are not to say how much or how little to contribute or that you must give anything at all. Pilgrims decide on their own what they can and cannot do. No one is shamed or held up in greatness because they gave too little or too much. Hospitality is shared with all who stay.
 

Flog

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022
Some people were quite generous and others left nothing. It is better on the hospitalero side not to know how much is given each day. It encourages you to treat each pilgrim with the same hospitality.

I commend those who are capable of offering hospitality with grace and kindness, and without judgement. I have to admit I didn't find this easy when I volunteered at a Donativo last year. I think now, I would prefer not to know what individuals give for the reason you mention.
 
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J Willhaus

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2016, 2022
I commend those who are capable of offering hospitality with grace and kindness, and without judgement. I have to admit I didn't find this easy when I volunteered at a Donativo last year. I think now, I would prefer not to know what individuals give for the reason you mention.
Yah, I just don't look to see if people are putting money in and unless we are required to count it daily, I just don't count it.
 
Past OR future Camino
Next up 2022?
Can't say it better than this. Thank you, David - exactly.
I also tend not to think as my donation as paying for what I have received but rather as paying for what I want tomorrow's pilgrims to receive.

If we think about our donations as payments for what we ourselves received, there is an unfortunate chance that a downward spiral could develop. You get some people with the misconception that it is free, leading to less funding to provide for the next day's pilgrims. Those pilgrims receive less, and so donate less, meaning that the albergue continues to have to provide less. And so on.

On the other hand, given the benevolence with which most pilgrims consider fellow pilgrims, if we consider ourselves as wanting to pay for the next, we are likely to want to contribute more so that they can receive even more than we have. And donativo albergues being the non-profit entities they are, our generous donations will ensure that future pilgrims can receive even more than we did.
 
Past OR future Camino
Frances/Portuguese/Ingles/Sanabre/Frances/Fineste
The other day I made a critical comment about food at an albergue. Another pilgrim said I should not complain as it was free.

If donativos are treated as free then there will be no more donativos.
Everyone can afford to donate something. Most pilgrims can afford to donate at least as much as they would pay in another albergue.

So please think carefully about your donation and don't think of them as free!
Many Hospitalero's pay to be your host. Thank them by helping to sponsor these places. As Pilgrims we are part of a community, when you need help, someone will step forward. Be the guide and help when you can. Be gracious .
 

dfox

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2017
Me thinks donavitos is to enable pilgrims, not budget tourists, who could not afford lodging or food, to continue their pilgrimages.

Users of donavitos who could afford to "donate" a bit more than usual to support fellow pilgrims in need, not to mention the fund required to upkeep them.
 
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Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances; Aragones; VdlP; Madrid-Invierno; Levante
Me thinks donavitos is to enable pilgrims, not budget tourists, who could not afford lodging or food, to continue their pilgrimages.

Users of donavitos who could afford to "donate" a bit more than usual to support fellow pilgrims in need, not to mention the fund required to upkeep them.
I don't know if I can judge. If a "budget tourist" is willing to sleep on a thin mattress on the floor and share a very simple meal, perhaps he or she can learn something from the atmosphere at the donativos. Many of us who call ourselves pilgrims will acknowledge that we have learned much along the Way, perhaps especially at the donativos. But I hope that there will always be places at donativos for those who need them to make their pilgrimage.
 
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lt56ny

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
10/22 Aragones/Frances
But if one albergue provides welcoming tea and biscuits and a communal meal and another provides no food and lacks toilet paper in the washroom, the difference may not be in the amount of effort on the part of the volunteers but rather on the funding they have to work with. Donating less because one has received less doesn't motivate them to do more. It just continues to prevent it.
David this is on of the best posts I have read here in a long time. Thank you.
 
F

Former member 100800

Guest
While I wouldn't dream of not making a donation at a donativo, I don't think of my donation as a payment. The donation is just that - a donation. And what I receive is not a product in exchange for money. It's hospitality - the same hospitality that's extended to people who can't afford to make the same donation as I do. For that reason, I also feel that it's bad form to complain about the food or facilities.

I assume that was the intent of the person who said "This is free." Perhaps a clumsy choice of words but possibly a reminder of another important dimension of the experience - A tourist has expectations but a pilgrim is grateful.
 
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J Willhaus

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2016, 2022
I don't know if I can judge. If a "budget tourist" is willing to sleep on a thin mattress on the floor and share a very simple meal, perhaps he or she can learn something from the atmosphere at the donativos. Many of us who call ourselves pilgrims will acknowledge that we have learned much along the Way, perhaps especially at the donativos. But I hope that there will always be places at donativos for those who need them to make their pilgrimage.
I can honestly say some of my best shared pilgrim experiences have been some of my most uncomfortable nights on a colchoneta wedged between numerous other pilgrims on a tile floor. Although the donativo albergue is a draw for those with little means, it should also be a draw for any pilgrim looking for hospitality, friendship, and a sense of belonging.
 
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MaxHelado

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Portugués via Variante Espiritual 2022
Q2. What is the essential concept of a donativo? I paid 2€ for a coffee which is more than I would be charged in a local cafe in Spain. The owner remained with her hand open for more. I was very embarrassed. Why can’t donativos publish a list of recommended prices? I would happily pay what they ask in the knowledge that my “full price” payment might help another who pays less.
 

Vacajoe

Traded in my work boots for hiking ones
Past OR future Camino
2019
What is the essential concept of a donativo?
You pay what you can afford for the goods/services you have received. If you cannot pay, then perhaps you can exchange work or services for what you need. Regardless, the amount you pay is truly just a donation and is unregulated.

Sadly, there are some places that claim “donativo” but actually are not, because they expect a payment of a certain amount. Those places can be simply looking to profit or may have had poor experiences in the past with pilgrims not paying, so they give folks an extra nudge or list the expected donation. In these examples where they might demand more than what one gives, the owners truly should list a price. It is their hope, though, that you’ll give more than what they would have asked. This is NOT in the donativo spirit and should not be confused with true donativos.
 
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J Willhaus

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2016, 2022
Q2. What is the essential concept of a donativo? I paid 2€ for a coffee which is more than I would be charged in a local cafe in Spain. The owner remained with her hand open for more. I was very embarrassed. Why can’t donativos publish a list of recommended prices? I would happily pay what they ask in the knowledge that my “full price” payment might help another who pays less.
I would not call this example a donativo that we are talking about here. There are fruit stands and places along the way that offer refreshment for a donation, but we have been talking in this thread about donativo albergues. They are albergues what are often staffed by volunteers and owned by an association/confraternity, church, or municipal organization. I volunteer for two organizations that staff a number of these albergues. Normally they are quite simple and provide a bed/place to sleep, shower, a place to do your laundry, and sometimes meals like breakfast or supper. Some also offer other optional activities such as meditation services, pilgrim blessings. Pilgrims may leave a donation or not.

Not all association, municipal, or paroquial albergues are donativos. Some do have a set fee and are often staffed by people in the community or hired workers.
 

MaxHelado

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Portugués via Variante Espiritual 2022
You pay what you can afford for the goods/services you have received. If you cannot pay, then perhaps you can exchange work or services for what you need. Regardless, the amount you pay is truly just a donation and is unregulated.

Sadly, there are some places that claim “donativo” but actually are not, because they expect a payment of a certain amount. Those places can be simply looking to profit or may have had poor experiences in the past with pilgrims not paying, so they give folks an extra nudge or list the expected donation. In these examples where they might demand more than what one gives, the owners truly should list a price. It is their hope, though, that you’ll give more than what they would have asked. This is NOT in the donativo spirit and should not be confused with true donativos.
Great explanation. Thank you. But why not list the recommended prices in all donativos? It would give the owners more control of income, remove embarrassment for those who wish to pay a “good and fair” price, and still make it possible for those who cannot afford to pay to offer their services in exchange.
 

J Willhaus

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2016, 2022
Can you explain, please?
I think what @Albertagirl means is that many people may start out as tourists on an exciting travel trip and during the walk and over the course days the journey becomes a pilgrimage. You have a lot of time to think about things that you maybe didn't have time for in the past you begin to find meaning in what you are doing that maybe was not there before.
 

J Willhaus

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2016, 2022
Great explanation. Thank you. But why not list the recommended prices in all donativos? It would give the owners more control of income, remove embarrassment for those who wish to pay a “good and fair” price, and still make it possible for those who cannot afford to pay to offer their services in exchange.
@MaxHelado this is actually one of the more debated questions on the Camino like whether one should take a rain poncho or a rain coat. Some organizations just believe in the spirit of the donativo albergues. There are a few of them along the various Camino routes. They are not in every town, but if you have a chance to stay one and you feel comfortable doing so, I would invite you to share in this type of hospitality.
 

Tincatinker

Moderator
Staff member
Past OR future Camino
2012
Great explanation. Thank you. But why not list the recommended prices in all donativos? It would give the owners more control of income, remove embarrassment for those who wish to pay a “good and fair” price, and still make it possible for those who cannot afford to pay to offer their services in exchange.
For me, economically comfortable and at liberty to squander my generous pension as I see fit, the concept of a price list in a Donativo is anathema.
The cold, hard, unequivocal determinant is “give what you can afford”. There is no scale, no “carta”, this is not an airline, the price is not determined by the number of beds that remain available. Your donation should not be determined by the quality of the mattress, lentillas, or softness of the toilet paper.
Only your own heart can tell you how many €’s to put in that box
 
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davebugg

A Pilgrimage is time I spend praying with my feet
Past OR future Camino
2019
At least once on a Camino, I will ask a donativa how much it costs them to operate their alburgue for one day. I will donate that amount; not every time, but at least one time. Any other stays, I will donate what I would pay at a casa rural. I worked hard - and still work hard - to earn my good fortune, and love being able to share it as I see a need.
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances; Aragones; VdlP; Madrid-Invierno; Levante
I can see that my response was not helpful. But I cannot tell you what the difference is between a pilgrim and a tourist, in financial terms. It is a personal recognition of the meaning of the walk, often realized over the course of the walk. But there can be confusion. When I served as a hospitalera at Emaus in Burgos I had to turn away a young man who was quite willing to pay the five euros charged there and confused when I said that he could not stay because he did not have a credencial. Emaus was not a pure donative albergue, as only the cost of meals was donativo. But it was intended for pilgrims, who demonstrated their commitment to the pilgrim walk by following the regulation to present a credencial. Those who serve pilgrims do not grill them on their beliefs, but welcome all who fulfill the regulations and offer housing and food, whether donativo or at a reasonable cost, to assist their journey. I know that there are albergue owners who make their living doing so , and I am grateful for their presence, as the donativos are few. But very special.
 
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FourSeasons

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino de Costa/Senda Litoral
Porto/SdC Sept 2022
We explain the donativo as "giving what your heart and your pocketbook may allow". This may mean helping to wash dishes or providing a kindness to others or helping to prepare the meal or providing music/song for others. For those who can and want to, a donation box is available. For others, there is no pressure or need to give. We are to show the pilgrim where donations can be shared and nothing more. We do explain that today's donations help tomorrow's pilgrims. We are not to say how much or how little to contribute or that you must give anything at all. Pilgrims decide on their own what they can and cannot do. No one is shamed or held up in greatness because they gave too little or too much. Hospitality is shared with all who stay.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!! 😊 I have been in the position of great need and great generosity during my Camino’s.

Matthew 6:3
But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
 

ktchnofdngr

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
September '13, June '16, July '21, And July '22
How does one get on the list to volunteer at one of the donativos?

I’m volunteering at the pilgrims office again this summer, but would like to maybe be a hospitalera next summer or the summer after that.

Ruth
 
Past OR future Camino
Next up 2022?
Share what you can afford. Joyfully, knowing you're feeding people coming behind you - as you were fed by those in front of you.

If you can afford to travel and buy hi-tech clothes and equipment, don't habitually be thrifty at donativos just because no-one's asking you to pay. Money is just a made-up concept that stands for energy, so find the joy of letting it flow.
 
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SabineP

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
some and then more. see my signature.
How does one get on the list to volunteer at one of the donativos?

I’m volunteering at the pilgrims office again this summer, but would like to maybe be a hospitalera next summer or the summer after that.

Ruth


You might want to contact HOSVOL?


Good luck!
 
Past OR future Camino
06,CF;13,CP;17,SSal;19,Ingles
How does one get on the list to volunteer at one of the donativos?

I’m volunteering at the pilgrims office again this summer, but would like to maybe be a hospitalera next summer or the summer after that.

Ruth
One way, contact Rebekah on the forum: she organises volunteers in some donativos.
Another way is to contact the following organisation: caminosantiago.org. This group asks that volunteers do a training. The training can be done in a few other countries also, it is not necessary to do one in Spain itself. It is a great way to say thanks for all you have received as a pilgrim. 👣

EDIT: above most helpful link! Posted as I was typing...
 

J Willhaus

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2016, 2022
I want to say that the training we had was very helpful through HosVol and they require it for being a volunteer in the albergues they staff. Although it would be impossible to cover every situation that might present, they cover many and help you role play some. It is very independent role. The keys are given to you and you are 'in charge' meaning you tend not only to pilgrims, but also to infrastructure of the facility and the pilgrim supports.
 

J Willhaus

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2016, 2022
At least once on a Camino, I will ask a donativa how much it costs them to operate their alburgue for one day. I will donate that amount; not every time, but at least one time. Any other stays, I will donate what I would pay at a casa rural. I worked hard - and still work hard - to earn my good fortune, and love being able to share it as I see a need.
Most volunteers won't know the overall cost for the albergue functioning. There is usually a committee or person who manages the "books" for the facility and makes sure utilities etc. get paid. Only If you own the albergue personally/privately would you know.
 

wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Past OR future Camino
Many
I came here to add that although it seems contradictory, some donativo albergues will request a donation of 6€. I never understood the logic, but happily left at least that much.

I am happy to report that there are several new donativo albergues on the camino this year, just when I thought they were fading fast. The point to a certain type of care for pilgrims, generally speaking, and for that reason alone they should be patronized as much as we can afford to.
 
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davebugg

A Pilgrimage is time I spend praying with my feet
Past OR future Camino
2019
Most volunteers won't know the overall cost for the albergue functioning. There is usually a committee or person who manages the "books" for the facility and makes sure utilities etc. get paid. Only If you own the albergue personally/privately would you know.

That makes sense. I may have lucked in to talking to the person or owner who had the answer, but I have never not been given a figure when I have asked. I just accepted at face value whatever figure I was told. I just wanted to help, so accuracy never mattered. :)
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
1989
Q1. Can someone please explain the difference between a pilgrim and a tourist walking the Camino?
There is no significant difference that is agreed upon and that can be identified. In general, a pilgrim is someone travelling to a holy site; a tourist is someone visiting other places to see the sights. Obviously, on the Camino one can be both simultaneously.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
1989
Q2. What is the essential concept of a donativo? I paid 2€ for a coffee which is more than I would be charged in a local cafe in Spain. The owner remained with her hand open for more. I was very embarrassed. Why can’t donativos publish a list of recommended prices? I would happily pay what they ask in the knowledge that my “full price” payment might help another who pays less.
A donativo is a place where one pays "by donation". There isn't a specified cost. I have been to donativos where recommended donations are suggested (although not required). Others are very careful not to.

Donativos are different from free in that "pay nothing" is different from "Pay what you want/can afford". But holding out for a minimum cost (especially one above market pricing) isn't generally considered donativo etiquette.
 

Plataman

Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances: (2009), (2013), Via de la Plata; (2016)
It might be a good rule to donate the same amount you would expect to pay at an alberque that charges for accommodation and use of facilities such as a kitchen. The last time I did a Camino in 2018, I recall the average charge was 10E for bed and use of the kitchen. Seems to me giving a donation of no less that 10E, more if you can afford it, is both responsible and goes to ensuring that alberque will continue to provide its services to future pilgrims. Being cheap, being a chiseler, being a leech, is not in keeping with being a pilgrim.
 

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