Post-Camino shoe observations

[cressrt]

My wife and I walked the Portuguese Way earlier this month, we use basic walking shoes form Decathlon, not expensive, but invested in special socks, from Decathlon, about €14 each pair. These make the difference, in our opinion, not necessarily the footwear itself.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

That's pretty amazing since they mention a 300-500 mile lifetime on their website. I have heard they were takekn over by NorthFace. If that is accurate, we have to wonder what becoming part of Big Outdoors will mean for Altras.

The manufacturing site, equipment, and technical/skilled staff will probably stay put. The administrative end will be 'umbrella'd' into the North Face corporate structure so that there will likely be no Altra CEO. It will just be another department/division of North Face.

 

[jeffnd]

The notion of 'breaking in' hiking or walking shoes comes from old style construction materials, like leather, which were stiff and required time and effort to mold itself to the foot and become more flexible.

I think now it's more about breaking your feet into the boot. (or shoe) As a person who wears boots at work, no matter what I do or what precautions I take, my feet always take a bit of a beating whenever I switch to a new pair. (Even if it's the same kind of boot I just wore.)

 

[LTfit]

This thread is a goldmine of information!
Thank you everyone, especially Laurie and Dave.


When I go to Ladakh, I take Keen boots (Targee). The last European boots I got chewed my feet up horribly. And they were very good very expensive boots. But the lighter weight Keens aren't stiff or heavy. Much better if you're used to trail runners.

You saw my camino 'shoes,' Lee. I totally love them, in too many ways to count. Not a sandal, but not a running shoe, either. A bit of both:
https://www.keenfootwear.com/p/M-MCKENZIE-II.html

Have since returned the really stiff boots (Dutch category B) for a less rigid boot (A/B). My feet are pleased . They were also almost 100 euros less expensive although one of the well known brands.

 

[Anniesantiago]

At least three pairs of footwear??! Will you be carrying them yourself?

Yeah, that’s crazy, imo!

 

[Anniesantiago]

I’m in love with New Balance trail runners built on an S-L 2 shoe last. They haven’t failed me in all these years. I get a new pair each year b

 

[Rich1]

Lots of really good suggestions but just remember that our feet are all very particular to us...we are all different. What works for me will not necessarily work for you
Having said that...for the past 10 years or so, I have done all my walking in Solomon Speedcross. I wouldn’t recommend gortex for runners because one the water gets in, in doesn’t get out. My wife swears by her Hoka Tor Summits .
Incidentally the 500 miles “rule” relates to running and to the cushioning structure rather than the sole or upper. I would suggest that the distance is far greater if the shoe is walked in.

 

[Margaret of Jordan]

I could also title this "Why did it take me 17 years to realize this?"

On my first couple of caminos, I wore hiking boots that were probably too small for my feet. Rookie mistake. That led to overheated feet, blisters, lots of unhappy feet while pounding the pavement. One year, my choice was to try something new in León or stop walking. I bought a low Salomon hiking shoe and continued on the Salvador/Primitivo pain free. From then until last year, I wore Salomons. No blisters, but terrible corns between the toes. My dermatologist said that the solution was to get a wide toe box, and Altras are wider than them all.

So I went to Altras for the wide toe box and then had an epiphany. Altras are trail runners, they are not hiking boots or hiking shoes. That means they are "less shoe" and more cushion. The Camino is not a hike in the outdoor sense of the word, it is a long walk with some occasional rough terrain. Trail runners are the perfect shoe for that endeavor. They have enough grip and form to keep you steady when the off-road gets rough (especially if you have poles), but their comfort on the asphalt and gravel just blew me away.

I am no expert in shoes, but I would certainly encourage everyone to search out trail runners. Altras are one brand, and every major outdoor shoe company has some. But it seems to me, especially as the caminos become more and more paved over, that hiking boots and hiking shoes are just way too much shoe for the camino.

Though the pain of past caminos, like the pain of child birth, always fades with the years, I was continually happy this year to see that at the end of long days, some up in the 40s, I never had that urge to yank off my shoes and free my feet. My feet may have been tired, like the rest of me, but they were not sore, weary, pounding, or any of those things.

Bottom line -- try the trail runner option. Its one drawback may be lack of waterproofing, but I have always found that my feet are wet at the end of a rain that lasts more than an hour anyway, goretex or not. I had only one rain on my 32 days on the Mozárabe, if you can believe it, but I found that the shoes dried very quickly.

I know there are others on the forum with far more expertise in shoes, and they may be able to point out flaws in my thinking. But this year, as every year, I saw so many people with boots or hiking shoes who were really having problems, and I felt so lucky with my trail runners. I am a convert! I will try not to proselytize though.

Buen camino, Laurie

Let's see a picture. I'm starting this Sunday. I, too, bought trainers instead of boots. I know you're not speaking of trainers per say but once I decided on trainers over boots, I did some research for "long walks" not hikes, and settled on the Asics, Gel Kayano 24 with pronation. SOooo comfy! They're actually running shoes. I hope they serve me well. My only concern now is rain. They certainly eon;t keep my feet as dry as boots would have but I'm willing to risk it for comfort.

 

[trecile]

My only concern now is rain. They certainly eon;t keep my feet as dry as boots would have but I'm willing to risk it for comfort.

You should be fine in your running shoes.
Check out @davebugg comment about walking in wet weather on this thread.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/weather.55953/#post-627686

 

[Sunbun]

Side to side looseness is something new to me. So the shoe structure determines that?

I have worn custom orthotics for years. I believe my hard plastic orthotics, in combination with all the asphalt on the Norte, caused my tarsal tunnel syndrome, which left me 6 months in a walking cast. Since then I have custom silicone orthotics and they are wonderful. Had no problem getting them in the Altras either.

Ask a podiatrist for sure, but I took it to mean the ability for the shoe to twist. My doctor picked up my shoe with one hand on the front and one hand on the back, twisted it side to side, did the same with my store-bought orthotics and said both were too loose, which allowed my foot to move from side-to-side too easily.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Ask a podiatrist for sure, but I took it to mean the ability for the shoe to twist. My doctor picked up my shoe with one hand on the front and one hand on the back, twisted it side to side, did the same with my store-bought orthotics and said both were too loose, which allowed my foot to move from side-to-side too easily.

A good supportive trail runner or trail shoe can have some "twist" to it, the question really depends on how well the shoe controls for pronation. Pronation is one of the big factors related to knee pain, as well as Plantars Fasciitis. Here is a repost of a post I wrote which may help with the Plantars:

Top Exercises to Help Avoid Plantar Fasciitis

Plantar fasciitis is a common type of chronic heel pain. It seems to affect young male athletes and middle-aged obese women more than any other group, but that does not mean other groups are immune to it. The inflamed tissue around the heel seems to cause a stabbing-like sensation, which is worse in the morning. This condition may be prevented, and the following exercises will help you do that.

Arch Stretching
Stretching your arch muscles is not too difficult, but the exercise is a little peculiar. The first thing you need to do is take off your shoes and get barefoot, and then place a towel on the floor. Now, simply place your foot on the towel, and curl your toes to clench the towel. Pull the towel toward you, and that is it. Place the towel in front of you again, and repeat. Be sure to do the same for your other foot.

This exercise is typically suggested by professionals for those who actually have plantar fasciitis already, but it can definitely be helpful to everyone. You should try and do this several times a week, but make sure to not overstretch your feet while you’re doing it.

Calf Strengthening
The calf and the tendons surrounding your heel need to be strengthened. A simple exercise that may help you do this is calf raises. What you want to do is stand straight on level ground. You should be barefooted for best traction, but it is not absolutely necessary. Now, all you have to do is lift your heels off the ground so that you are standing on your toes. Stay in this position as long as you can before returning your heels to the ground, and just repeat this at least nine more times.

Another way to do this exercise that works great is to stand at the edge of a stair or curb. You want your toes to be what keeps you on the stair or curb. Then, raise your heels up so that you are on your “tippy toes” and then back down again, but allow your heels to go lower than your toes past the edge of the stair or curb. This exercise allows for a fuller stretch.

Alleviate Pronation
Pronation is a natural part of your foot’s movement. This refers to how the foot rolls and applies pressure when the heel finally hits the ground. Pronation may be normal, but that does not mean the constant shock it receives when you walk or run does not have an effect on it. One way you can alleviate the pressure is to try doming. To do this, just place your foot flat on the ground, and then press your toes on the ground while keeping your heels firmly on the floor. This should create a dome between your heel and toes. Maintain this position for 10 seconds, straighten your foot, and then just start again.

Work the Interossei
The Interossei muscles help support your arch muscles thus preventing this issue. All you have to do is place a large rubber band around your toes for resistance. Then, stretch your toes and hold for 10 seconds. Squeeze your toes for another 10 seconds, and repeat these steps about five to 10 times.

What to Do When Your Feet Are Hurting?
Whether or not you’re at risk of getting Plantar Fasciitis, you’re going to come across a time where you’re feet are going to hurt. Maybe you were standing all day at work, ran a marathon, or whatever. If your feet are hurting, take a break and rest, stretch, and recover. Get off your feet for a little bit and either ice or heat your feet. If you notice any swelling or severe pain, then ice it. If it’s just sore, then apply heat with a hot bath. Then, make sure to rub out the tension and to do some basic exercises. You can try the ones above or do some other types. One popular one is to roll a tennis ball underneath the feet. This helps to preserve the arch and massage it at the same time

 

[Pilgy]

I have walked three Caminos and always in Keene Targhee hiking boots. I think ankle support is critical on the rougher sections, and the Targhees are very light, comfortable, and a good fit for my wide feet. I have never had a blister. I did the VDLP in 2016, doing it again this fall, going to use the 2016 boots , see if I can get 2000km out of them.

Have you tried the Targhee III boots? I walked twice in Targhee IIs totally free of problems but Keen seems to be changing things up and the new boot (Targhee III) feels more streamlined read narrower.... Almost impossible to get hold of Targhee IIs any more...

 

[Gigipro]

I could also title this "Why did it take me 17 years to realize this?"

On my first couple of caminos, I wore hiking boots that were probably too small for my feet. Rookie mistake. That led to overheated feet, blisters, lots of unhappy feet while pounding the pavement. One year, my choice was to try something new in León or stop walking. I bought a low Salomon hiking shoe and continued on the Salvador/Primitivo pain free. From then until last year, I wore Salomons. No blisters, but terrible corns between the toes. My dermatologist said that the solution was to get a wide toe box, and Altras are wider than them all.

So I went to Altras for the wide toe box and then had an epiphany. Altras are trail runners, they are not hiking boots or hiking shoes. That means they are "less shoe" and more cushion. The Camino is not a hike in the outdoor sense of the word, it is a long walk with some occasional rough terrain. Trail runners are the perfect shoe for that endeavor. They have enough grip and form to keep you steady when the off-road gets rough (especially if you have poles), but their comfort on the asphalt and gravel just blew me away.

I am no expert in shoes, but I would certainly encourage everyone to search out trail runners. Altras are one brand, and every major outdoor shoe company has some. But it seems to me, especially as the caminos become more and more paved over, that hiking boots and hiking shoes are just way too much shoe for the camino.

Though the pain of past caminos, like the pain of child birth, always fades with the years, I was continually happy this year to see that at the end of long days, some up in the 40s, I never had that urge to yank off my shoes and free my feet. My feet may have been tired, like the rest of me, but they were not sore, weary, pounding, or any of those things.

Bottom line -- try the trail runner option. Its one drawback may be lack of waterproofing, but I have always found that my feet are wet at the end of a rain that lasts more than an hour anyway, goretex or not. I had only one rain on my 32 days on the Mozárabe, if you can believe it, but I found that the shoes dried very quickly.

I know there are others on the forum with far more expertise in shoes, and they may be able to point out flaws in my thinking. But this year, as every year, I saw so many people with boots or hiking shoes who were really having problems, and I felt so lucky with my trail runners. I am a convert! I will try not to proselytize though.

Buen camino, Laurie

Such useful and welcome suggestions. Thank you.

 

[Piero Frustascarpe]

Modern trail shoes and trail runners have been designed to operate new and out of the box. While the materials can be worn down, they do not really do much 'breaking in'.

I "slightly" agree with you.
In my team we never use brand new shoes in competition. Surely the break-in is much more reduced nowadays, compared to the "old times".
But the the upper shoe, although made of soft and flexible canvas, and the sole, although made of elastic stuff, need some adaptation to the foot: we call those processes "adaptation of the texture and "smashing the micropores of the sponge". And the foot has to become familiar with the shoe as well and to "shape" it.
Brand new shoes have a reactivity that is completely different from used ones.
All in all, the break-in of our trail running shoes can last only 100 Km, compared to the 200-300 Km of the past, although, personally, I belong to the "old school" and I wear my shoes in competitions (and tong trekkings) only after a 200-300 km of adaptation.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I "slightly" agree with you.
In my team we never use brand new shoes in competition. Surely the break-in is much more reduced nowadays, compared to the "old times".
But the the upper shoe, although made of soft and flexible canvas, and the sole, although made of elastic stuff, need some adaptation to the foot: we call those processes "adaptation of the texture and "smashing the micropores of the sponge". And the foot has to become familiar with the shoe as well and to "shape" it.
Brand new shoes have a reactivity that is completely different from used ones.
All in all, the break-in of our trail running shoes can last only 100 Km, compared to the 200-300 Km of the past, although, personally, I belong to the "old school" and I wear my shoes in competitions (and tong trekkings) only after a 200-300 km of adaptation.

I gently disagree; and I think much of our differences on this issue is what breaking in a shoe is really about.

Spending years doing gear testing for manufacturers, and having backpacked thousands of miles including thru hikes on the PCT and Colorado Trails, I stand by my comments. I am quite familiar with the difference between "breaking in" material, vs wearing down material. What you are describing is normal wear.

Of course a brand new pair of trail running shoes have a different reactivity than a worn down pair; it's the new cushioning, which is a desirable trait. What you refer to as "adaptation" is nothing more than material fatigue, and that happens when the shoe has used up a goodly percentage of its useful life. That is not a positive thing, but part of the degenerative process of a used shoe. Again, I appreciate that some, like yourself, may find a shoe most comfortable at that point in the shoes productive and useful life.

On the Pacific Crest Trail, I used 5 pairs of New Balance shoes: Leadvilles and 910s. Given the aggressive nature of the trail and its 2600+ mile length, that's an average of 530 or so miles per pair. Each starting point with a new shoe felt as great out of the box as it did 200 miles down the trail.

You like the feel of worn down shoes better than brand new ones. I get that as a personal choice. In the past, when one had footwear like boots for hiking, they required a lot of wear before stiffness and pressure points broke down enough to feel comfortable. The normal life of the material was not affected by this process. One does not have that same need to break in a new pair of trail runners or street runners to avoid stiffness and pressure. A properly fitted modern shoe is already flexible enough out of the box. One simply needs to wear them long enough to be certain that they fit properly and feel good.

 

[Piero Frustascarpe]

I am quite familiar with the difference between "breaking in" material, vs wearing down material. What you are describing is normal wear.

Forgive my poor knowledge of English. I totally agree with what you wrote. Thank you for your clarification.
And I especially like this detail you pointed out: "You like the feel of worn down shoes better than brand new ones. " Totally CORRECT, also for me!!!
In the experience of my team (and of many other runners) we choose to wear "worn down" shoes in heavy training and competitions because their qualities remain stable for a good deal of Km, so their response is the same and our bodymind can be "one" with them for a long time, without any slope of "learning curve".

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Forgive my poor knowledge of English. ........

Your ability to read, understand and write in English is far, far better than my ability to speak ..... well.... I'm not literate in any language, actually. I applaud your foreign language skills

 

[katie@camino]

A good supportive trail runner or trail shoe can have some "twist" to it, the question really depends on how well the shoe controls for pronation. Pronation is one of the big factors related to knee pain, as well as Plantars Fasciitis.

@davebugg can you please explain more about the relationship bw pronation and knee pain?

And i have to say, it is a privilegeand great fortune to have you on this forum! Thankyou for sharing your knowledge.

 

[Plataman]

Have you tried the Targhee III boots? I walked twice in Targhee IIs totally free of problems but Keen seems to be changing things up and the new boot (Targhee III) feels more streamlined read narrower.... Almost impossible to get hold of Targhee IIs any more...

Hi, no, I have not tried the Targhee III, and I see some others are not impressed with the fit. I just posted that I am going to check out some trail runners for my upcoming Camino, feeling a little apprehensive about leaving my tried and trusted Keenes, but you are right, the IIs are hard to find...

 

[Dochim]

I could also title this "Why did it take me 17 years to realize this?"

On my first couple of caminos, I wore hiking boots that were probably too small for my feet. Rookie mistake. That led to overheated feet, blisters, lots of unhappy feet while pounding the pavement. One year, my choice was to try something new in León or stop walking. I bought a low Salomon hiking shoe and continued on the Salvador/Primitivo pain free. From then until last year, I wore Salomons. No blisters, but terrible corns between the toes. My dermatologist said that the solution was to get a wide toe box, and Altras are wider than them all.

So I went to Altras for the wide toe box and then had an epiphany. Altras are trail runners, they are not hiking boots or hiking shoes. That means they are "less shoe" and more cushion. The Camino is not a hike in the outdoor sense of the word, it is a long walk with some occasional rough terrain. Trail runners are the perfect shoe for that endeavor. They have enough grip and form to keep you steady when the off-road gets rough (especially if you have poles), but their comfort on the asphalt and gravel just blew me away.

I am no expert in shoes, but I would certainly encourage everyone to search out trail runners. Altras are one brand, and every major outdoor shoe company has some. But it seems to me, especially as the caminos become more and more paved over, that hiking boots and hiking shoes are just way too much shoe for the camino.

Though the pain of past caminos, like the pain of child birth, always fades with the years, I was continually happy this year to see that at the end of long days, some up in the 40s, I never had that urge to yank off my shoes and free my feet. My feet may have been tired, like the rest of me, but they were not sore, weary, pounding, or any of those things.

Bottom line -- try the trail runner option. Its one drawback may be lack of waterproofing, but I have always found that my feet are wet at the end of a rain that lasts more than an hour anyway, goretex or not. I had only one rain on my 32 days on the Mozárabe, if you can believe it, but I found that the shoes dried very quickly.

I know there are others on the forum with far more expertise in shoes, and they may be able to point out flaws in my thinking. But this year, as every year, I saw so many people with boots or hiking shoes who were really having problems, and I felt so lucky with my trail runners. I am a convert! I will try not to proselytize though.

Buen camino, Laurie

I would like to send you a heartfelt thank you for sharing this information, Peregrina. My husband and I finally completed our first Camino in April. While we really enjoyed the walk, the solitude, time for reflection etc, we both suffered greatly with foot pain. I won't go into the details, but although we thought we'd both been careful about our footwear choices, at the end of each day we thought there was no way we could walk again the next day.
Anyway, we intend to go back early July (just two and a half weeks to go), to walk the Camino Primitivo, but we were both dreading the foot pain. When I read your post about the Altras, I decided, to try them out. I've changed the insoles to give more support and padding and now I don't want to take the shoes off at the end of the day. They are so comfortable! My toes don't feel squashed up anymore. My husband has now placed an order for a pair too. This forum is a brilliant resource for ideas, support and such a supportive community. Thank you.

 

[Pilgy]

Hi, no, I have not tried the Targhee III, and I see some others are not impressed with the fit. I just posted that I am going to check out some trail runners for my upcoming Camino, feeling a little apprehensive about leaving my tried and trusted Keenes, but you are right, the IIs are hard to find...

Plataman, I found some online. interesting isn't it that we call the Targhee IIs, boots but they are hardly "hiking boots" per se (and it is confusing when folk roll a formal leather boot into the came category as a Targhee II) just higher top shoes that help keep the stones out and provide a little more support. Right up to the day before I left on the CF last October I was trying to decide between my Oboz low cut shoes and Keen Targhees and thank goodness I chose the Targhees. I just went through the same questioning about whether to change but will be sensible. Have you tried the Targhee II shoes if you are looking for a lower cut shoe that you can count on???? Also, Oboz Sawtooths are the closest I found to Targhees with their nice wide toe box but for me they they had an annoying design feature that caused rubbing on one ankle. Worth looking at if you REALLY feel you need to change...

 

[peregrina2000]

So serendipitous. I am in Santiago having finished my second camino inAltras and I got a flag that someone liked my original post.

I guess I just want to pile on to reiterate my love of Altras trail runners. Second long hard camino with not one blister, not one corn, no aching feet even at the end of some 40-45 km days. The traction on the bottom was fine for Vasco mountain alternatives and the Olvidado mountain alternatives. So I feel pretty confident saying that they can handle any terrain on any Camino.

Altras may not be for everyone, but I’m pretty sure that there is some brand of trail runner that will work with almost any foot out there.

I know this an unscientific “N” of 1, but my walking partner for the first couple of weeks, in low Merrell hiking shoes (not boots), got bad blisters and foot throbbing. Not me.

I always want to end these posts with the clear disclaimer that I am not telling you to ditch your boots or hiking shoes if you like them. But if you have not walked a camino and are clueless about shoes, please don’t assume that because the Camino is a long hike, you need hiking boots or hiking shoes. That is a newbie mistake I made for my first 17 years on the Camino.

 

[Former member 31048]

Fantastic. Thanks for the reminder on this Peregrina. Is there a particular model of Altras? I’ve also walked some of my Caminos in trail runners - Brooks Adrenaline - so I’m a Believer - and interested in the Altras.

Blister free after 10 caminos in either Brooks or Salamon Ellipse, I also credit my sock regime - which I haven’t deviated from in case that’s part of my good fortune. Coolmax sock liners with Lightfeet socks.

Muchas gracias

 

[Pilgy]

Great news Peregrina! I'm trying the Altra Lone Peaks and love them on trails but not so much on paved surfaces. Agree no blisters but the zero drop design doesn't make my walking feel as intuitive as I'd like. And I miss the sense of support of a higher cut shoe. Might try Hokas OR just stick with my trusty Targhee II mids!

 

[carashea]

Three generations of ladies (11, 47, 69) we all wore Altra Timps, half to one size larger and would absolutely use the identical shoes again. (The Lone Peaks were not quite as cushioned which is why we went with the Timps). Buen Camino!

 

[ClaireJJ]

Peregrina 2000. I love that you were a "rookie" for 17 years. I too find Altras a treat for my toes. So far no blisters, but then I am a genuine rookie (this year will be my 2nd Camino), so it's early to say.

 

[Jim_Hyde]

I'm sorry to say my current pair of Hanwag Banks GTX are not proving as durable as my previous 5 pairs, I doubt if these will make it past 1,000 miles, my previous pairs were always good for 2,000+ miles. I have just bought a pair of Soloman 4d GTX boots which I will begin wearing in soon so they are ready to go when the Hanwags are worn out. I will keep you posted how they work out, currently walking 30 - 40 miles per week just to keep the legs ticking over.

 

[Beeman]

Peregrina 2000. Thanks for your post! My only blister on my last camino was one toe rubbing on another. I have altras and love the wide toebox,and zero drop. I wish that I had had these last time. Congrats on your recent finish! Buen Camino.

 

[peregrina2000]

(The Lone Peaks were not quite as cushioned which is why we went with the Timps). Buen Camino!

If the Timps have more cushioning than the Lone Peaks, I am going to have to try them.

I went to Altras only because I learned here that they have the widest toe box of any shoe. A totally unexpected benefit of them was the cushioning. My feet just don’t throb or ache like they used to. Especially on those typical last 3-6 kms into town on the side of the road —my companions in their shoes or boots say their feet are aching, and mine are fine. So if the Timps are even better, they must be like walking on air.

 

[katie@camino]

If the Timps have more cushioning than the Lone Peaks, I am going to have to try them.

I went to Altras only because I learned here that they have the widest toe box of any shoe. A totally unexpected benefit of them was the cushioning. My feet just don’t throb or ache like they used to. Especially on those typical last 3-6 kms into town on the side of the road —my companions in their shoes or boots say their feet are aching, and mine are fine. So if the Timps are even better, they must be like walking on air.

Hi Laurie, I'm so pleased to hear of another terrifically successful Altra-supported Camino! I walked in Timps last time and Lone Peaks this time. The Timps are noticeably more cushioned but the most recent iteration of the LPs have a SIGNIFICANTLY better grip than the latest Timps.