Relocate to Spain after 65

[AnaRosario]

I love the country of Spain, my last journey in 2018… It was decided this is where I want to live, but I don’t know the process, and unfortunately I’m not really good at following instruction nor waiting. So, if you know how to do it, please help me. I am planning on coming back to Spain after January 2023, and will be walking the Camino Frances. Where would I go to begin the process of legally remaining in Spain or Portugal or Italy?

 

[Former member 102963]

Just Google. Loads of advice.

 

[nidarosa]

Good plan - moving to Spain, that is, not necessarily googling away, you should definitely start by going to the official Spanish government website. First thing I would ask is where are you - meaning your passport - from? Different rules from different places. UK passport holders without dual nationality now have a different route than EU or EEA citizens, for instance.

 

[TMcA]

I am a U.S. citizen and once in a while I have entertained the notion of moving to southern Europe. Like you. But these notions have come to a full stop because my health insurance does not provide coverage when I am out of the U.S. And my health insurance has been absolutely invaluable as I aged through my 60s and into my 70s.

Good luck. But research thoroughly.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I am a U.S. citizen and once in a while I have entertained the notion of moving to southern Europe. Like you. But these notions have come to a full stop because my health insurance does not provide coverage when I am out of the U.S. And my health insurance has been absolutely invaluable as I aged through my 60s and into my 70s.

Good luck. But research thoroughly.

You should be able to take out local health insurance in Spain to cover your needs within the EU. I think that will probably be cheaper than trying to arrange cover from a US company. If you are retired and not intending to work, you will need to prove you have an adequate income to support yourself. Check out the link below for information on non-lucrative visa.

Non-Lucrative Visa (NLV) - Guide

The non-lucrative residence residency is a Spanish visa available to non-EU citizens who have sufficient economic means to stay in the country without engaging in any work or professional activity. It is one of the easiest routes to permanent residency in Spain, provided you meet the...

www.ageinspain.org

This visa doesn't give you the right to work.

As well as health insurance, you will need to provide a doctor's certificate to say you are in good health and will not be a burden on the Spanish health service.

 

[rappahannock_rev]

If you can pull this off, please let the Forum know how you did it! My own casual inquiries have suggested that retiring to Spain is not as easy as we (meaning Americans) might like it to be ---- for all kinds of reasons!

I'm retiring after many years of active diocesan parish ministry effective Dec 25, and if I were to lose my beloved wife of 40+ years (Anglican Catholic clergy can/do marry, FYI!) then I would try and relocate to someplace on the Camino Frances as fast as I could -- Pamplona or Burgos or Leon perhaps, but more likely some smaller town like Najera, or Carrion de los Condes, or Villafranca del Bierzo. And spend my twilight years sipping wine on terraces and waving at the passing peregrinos....! Mi corazon vive en Espana.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

I read somewhere about Americans wanting to move to Spain (some magazine... on paper!!) and they were using an "onboarding" service. All agreed that having tried to go it alone they wish they had started earlier with paying a few thousand euros to this company that: helps with real estate/locating a home; finding schools, medical care, and even setting up your business if you are working.
Though I'm an EU citizen, I was so persuaded by the wisdom of paying for someone to help with these things that I plan to do the same in a few years. The company is based in Madrid, and I think it might even be called "ExPat".
Sorry I don't recall more, but I shelved the magazine for future use and I think it's actually at my mother's house right now.
I can tell you that you need at least 30% down for a mortgage, that your payment has to have cleared EU banking (meaning it has to sit for 6 months before being released to you in order to make sure that it is not dirty money). Mortgages are rare for people without an employment history in Spain, but housing prices are low enough that you might be able to buy something outright anyway (depending on your own circumstances in the US, of course).
The easiest VISA for a non EU citizen who wishes to retire is the one that requires a 500K euro home purchase... so only you know if that's feasible for you or not. Friends did this in Portugal under a similar process and now they run a (proper) B&B near Nazarre. He has MS and they found that having a business in Portugal made more sense than trying to work with their insurers from their workplaces in Canada.
IMO, rents are very very low in most of Spain, especially in the areas most familiar along the main Camino paths. A host of cities can offer full medical, cultural and transportation services and rents that come in under $650-$750 Canadian per month for 3 bedrooms in the centre of town...
Average earnings in Spain are about 27k euros per year. If your retirement income sits there or above, and you can sort the healthcare, then I think one could live well if modestly.
I understand from a friend in Seville that pillows are wildly expensive all over the country. And I'm not sure if IKEA sets prices to match the income of the nation... but if I were to just change what we pay at IKEA here to figure out the outlay in Euros at some of the apartments I have stayed in across the country, then I think even basic IKEA furniture would break the bank of the average person in Spain. Food is cheap. Watch out for dampness in any residence [edited to add: real estate purchases benefit from hiring your own architect to asses the property… not unlike having a home inspection in North America.]. EU legislation about disability access means most apartments have very nice features for ageing in place (elevators, lever taps, lever door handles, accessible switches etc).
I do think that those coming from a car-centric culture would do well to plan a retirement in Spain that involves getting rid of the car and living near to resources, taking the odd taxi when needed. Gas costs are high, and if one chooses a location that requires a car (on the thinking that as a driver you will just get a license in Spain...), you could end up very isolated and in need in another few years.
How's your Spanish? Can you take lessons, perhaps even get into an immersion setting? Are you planning to live somewhere that Castilian is not the main language (Galicia, for example, or Pais Vasco, or Catalunya...).
Best wishes as you plan.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The easiest VISA for a non EU citizen who wishes to retire is the one that requires a 500K euro home purchase

An easy way to get this information is to do an online search for
Golden passport [Country]

 

[Anniesantiago]

I love the country of Spain, my last journey in 2018… It was decided this is where I want to live, but I don’t know the process, and unfortunately I’m not really good at following instruction nor waiting. So, if you know how to do it, please help me. I am planning on coming back to Spain after January 2023, and will be walking the Camino Frances. Where would I go to begin the process of legally remaining in Spain or Portugal or Italy?

You might want to try a long term house sitting position first to see if it's really where you want to be. Just a suggestions.

 

[henrythedog]

It’s pretty much as set out here:

Investor visa

 

[henrythedog]

You might want to try a long term house sitting position first to see if it's really where you want to be. Just a suggestions.

That’s a very good suggestion. I’d also say that a reasonable degree of competence in Spanish is a pre-requisite; as is boundless patience with bureaucracy. Anyone who has dealt with the IRS probably has a head-start.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I’d also say that a reasonable degree of competence in Spanish is a pre-requisite; as is boundless patience with bureaucracy.

Spanish red tape.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Spanish red tape.

Just like home!!

 

[Former member 102963]

You should be able to take out local health insurance in Spain to cover your needs within the EU. I think that will probably be cheaper than trying to arrange cover from a US company. If you are retired and not intending to work, you will need to prove you have an adequate income to support yourself. Check out the link below for information on non-lucrative visa.

Non-Lucrative Visa (NLV) - Guide

The non-lucrative residence residency is a Spanish visa available to non-EU citizens who have sufficient economic means to stay in the country without engaging in any work or professional activity. It is one of the easiest routes to permanent residency in Spain, provided you meet the...

www.ageinspain.org

This visa doesn't give you the right to work.

As well as health insurance, you will need to provide a doctor's certificate to say you are in good health and will not be a burden on the Spanish health service.

I spent most of the summer in Spain (Valencia) and met loads of USA folks that had moved to Spain on a non lucrative visa. Think you get it for an initial period and as long as you don’t mess up you are good to extend. Met one couple who had never been to Europe, but chose Valencia based on YouTube videos of Turia Park! All seemed to love it (I met a regular expat group for a few walks) albeit obsessed with monitoring energy prices and the amount of flesh on beaches!

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I spent most of the summer in Spain (Valencia) and met loads of USA folks that had moved to Spain on a non lucrative visa. Think you get it for an initial period and as long as you don’t mess up you are good to extend. Met one couple who had never been to Europe, but chose Valencia based on YouTube videos of Turia Park! All seemed to love it (I met a regular expat group for a few walks) albeit obsessed with monitoring energy prices and the amount of flesh on beaches!

Yes, as long as you have the required income, you shouldn't have any problems.

 

[Former member 102963]

Yes, as long as you have the required income, you shouldn't have any problems.

Yes totally agree! Obv. many USA folks have a lot of money so seems relatively straight forward!

 

[Former member 102963]

That’s a very good suggestion. I’d also say that a reasonable degree of competence in Spanish is a pre-requisite; as is boundless patience with bureaucracy. Anyone who has dealt with the IRS probably has a head-start.

From some enquires re residency (EU citizen) it seemed to me whilst there is one official process country wide, it’s application in terms of hurdles does vary by region!

A very easy country to live it! Cheap, good medical coverage, weather, great football, great public transport, huge cultural offerings and so on!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

The Golden Visa is for wealthy people. There are other ways to get to Spain that don't require Big Bucks, but there are lots of hoops to jump through.
I made the jump from Pittsburgh USA to rural Palencia myself, but that was 16 years ago. I live very simply but very well. Things have changed a LOT since then, so my experience with legalities isn't relevant any more. But I know there are many many retirees and working couples from North America moving to Spain these days, there are many angles you can play to do it legally and securely. It DOES take a ton of patience, a good grasp of Spanish, common sense, and a well-developed inner life.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

If you don't meet the income requirements for Spain, take a look at the rules for Portugal. Even on a modest pension, you would probably be accepted.

My experience with bureaucracy in Spain is that it's quite slow but not as erratic as Greece. Once you collect the required documents, they will be processed eventually.

 

[trecile]

unfortunately I’m not really good at following instruction nor waiting

When you are considering a move like this you really need to go through the proper channels!

 

[LTfit]

If you are a EU citizen it is fairly easy to get a NIE (foreign identity card) if:
1) you can prove you have your own health insurance and
2) have some money in the bank.

Regarding point 2, I was never told how much it had to be but I did have to show the balance in my account. Strange thing is that I could have transferred all the funds immediately back out.

Within an afternoon I had my card. Of course it did help that I speak Spanish.

To do anything in Spain (open a bank account, rent or buy property) you need an NIE.

A  gestor can help you with any paperwork that needs to be done. They are very knowledgeable and inexpensive.

 

[La Rubia]

My husband and I moved from the US to Portugal in 2021 (living the dream!) and I can tell you there's lots and lots of information out there. International Living Magazine might be worth a year's online subscription - lots of information on the website and access to past articles - Spain is a popular destination (as is Portugal). Health care is so very much less expensive here for very good quality care, so don't let that dissuade you. We did the move (mostly) on our own, but if you're not comfortable with paperwork then it would be better to hire a service - just be sure that it's a reputable company. There are also expat Facebook groups - if you're on FB search "Moving to Spain" and you're sure to find some. You most definitely do not need to go the Golden Visa route - as long as you have adequate funds you can get a retirement visa.

 

[Former member 102963]

If you are a EU citizen it is fairly easy to get a NIE (foreign identity card) if:
1) you can prove you have your own health insurance and
2) have some money in the bank.

Regarding point 2, I was never told how much it had to be but I did have to show the balance in my account. Strange thing is that I could have transferred all the funds immediately back out.

Within an afternoon I had my card. Of course it did help that I speak Spanish.

To do anything in Spain (open a bank account, rent or buy property) you need an NIE.

A  gestor can help you with any paperwork that needs to be done. They are very knowledgeable and inexpensive.

I’m planning to do this! Re ‘proof’ it’s seems quite vague and amounts/proof seem to vary by region. Did you use a local legal legal person or do it yourself. I don’t speak much Spanish but it a seems easy enough?

 

[LTfit]

I’m planning to do this! Re ‘proof’ it’s seems quite vague and amounts/proof seem to vary by region. Did you use a local legal legal person or do it yourself. I don’t speak much Spanish but it a seems easy enough?

I did it by myself in Ponferrada back in 2016.

 

[John Sikora]

There are two economic issues that must be taken into account as well. One, insurance, has been talked about. The insurance in Spain appears to be affordable but it still is a cost. The second issue is taxes. Be careful - you may end up paying significantly more than you pay in the U.S. Here is pretty good article on it:

Spanish taxes for US Expats - HTJ Tax

Spanish taxes for US expats arn't always easy. Our team is able to offer cross border tax planning and cross border tax returns with Spain. Here's...

htj.tax

Also, you might just want to consider living in Spain each year for a total of no more than 180 days.

I do like the idea of being a house sitter or something similar for awhile to make sure you really do like the country and being away from your roots.

 

[BigT]

I would also recommend International Living magazine. It has been published for decades and I have had a subscription for over 40 years. It will be online only in 2023. Also, a former IL editor and her husband started a similar online resource called Liva and Invest Overseas. IMHO, the two resources are complement each other and have country specific information and resources. The IL resources were most helpful for my dual citizenship and two passports, US and EU (Italy). Good luck.

 

[El Cascayal]

Mi corazon vive en Espana.

El mío también. Siempre soñando estar en algún Camino.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Strange thing is that I could have transferred all the funds immediately back out.

Yes, I know loads of people who used the same €4,000 in Greece to get their residence permits after Brexit!

 

[pinkwadingbird]

I love the country of Spain, my last journey in 2018… It was decided this is where I want to live, but I don’t know the process, and unfortunately I’m not really good at following instruction nor waiting. So, if you know how to do it, please help me. I am planning on coming back to Spain after January 2023, and will be walking the Camino Frances. Where would I go to begin the process of legally remaining in Spain or Portugal or Italy?

My husband and I retired to Spain from the US in 2021. If you have a US passport the first step would be to go to the website of the Spanish consulate that covers the state where you are a resident. If you are not from the US then ignore what I just said. A Google search on 'move to Spain from ______(country)' will get you started. Joining FB groups that relate to retiring in Spain helped us with a lot of questions we had. If you seriously want to move to Spain and aren't good with following instructions or waiting it would be a good idea to use a relocation service or immigration attorney to keep you on task.

 

[Kevin Considine]

I am a 67 year old US citizen and relocated to Spain this year. Insurance is certainly no reason to not move here. I pay €119 per month is all.

I am a U.S. citizen and once in a while I have entertained the notion of moving to southern Europe. Like you. But these notions have come to a full stop because my health insurance does not provide coverage when I am out of the U.S. And my health insurance has been absolutely invaluable as I aged through my 60s and into my 70s.

Good luck. But research thoroughly.

 

[Former member 102963]

Yes, I know loads of people who used the same €4,000 in Greece to get their residence permits after Brexit!

Yes it seems there are lots of loopholes re the money situ. Same thing in Thailand for an over 50s visa!

 

[Former member 102963]

I am a 67 year old US citizen and relocated to Spain this year. Insurance is certainly no reason to not move here. I pay €119 per month is all.

Yes my initial research as a 56 year old UK citizen showed insurance at the €100 a month level.

 

[Ajijic Beth]

Spanish red tape.

My husband and I lived in Mexico for six years and obtained our permanent resident visas. This video is more true than you can imagine….

Feliz Navidad / Felices Fiestas

 

[Former member 102963]

I am a 67 year old US citizen and relocated to Spain this year. Insurance is certainly no reason to not move here. I pay €119 per month is all.

May I ask which part of Spain, Kevin?

 

[mario juan]

I love the country of Spain, my last journey in 2018… It was decided this is where I want to live, but I don’t know the process, and unfortunately I’m not really good at following instruction nor waiting. So, if you know how to do it, please help me. I am planning on coming back to Spain after January 2023, and will be walking the Camino Frances. Where would I go to begin the process of legally remaining in Spain or Portugal or Italy?

 

[natcire]

Thank you all for your contribution. I was lamenting on how many flights I would need to walk the Caminos on my bucket list when I retired. The amount of CO2 footprint flying from west coast of U.S. to Spain was weighing on my conscience. One thought was to find a way to move to Europe, preferably to Spain, and I could take a train to wherever the Camino would start. So this discussion was very timely. And it seems that "The Camino provides (what is needed)", again, for me.

 

[mario juan]

You begin the process at the Spanish consulate in your home country, a lot depends on your age, employment qualifications, income, nationality, accumulated wealth, pension, ability to speak Spanish, health insurance. You name it and the Spanish authorities will want it. I started the process 18 months ago and gave up, even though my father was Spanish.. think of the worst beuro

I love the country of Spain, my last journey in 2018… It was decided this is where I want to live, but I don’t know the process, and unfortunately I’m not really good at following instruction nor waiting. So, if you know how to do it, please help me. I am planning on coming back to Spain after January 2023, and will be walking the Camino Frances. Where would I go to begin the process of legally remaining in Spain or Portugal or Italy?

your first port of call would be the Spanish Consulate in your country of residence. They’ll want to know things like age, qualifications, financial status, income, pension income, health insurance, ability in Spanish and more. I gave up after 18 months and my father was Spanish, if you think of the worst bureaucracy you’ve ever dealt with and double it you’ll be nearly there, best of luck to you..

 

[Dawsie]

I hear your wishes, but can add the following insight:
When visiting last month, the ex-pat papers were all up in arms about the planned removal of an easy route to residence rights in Portugal - it appeared that all you had to do was to buy a property with a minimum value of something like 250,000 euros and you were welcomed.
This policy was also controversial and unpopular because it had artificially raised the cost of property which was excluding Portuguese nationals.

 

[taigirl]

I love the country of Spain, my last journey in 2018… It was decided this is where I want to live, but I don’t know the process, and unfortunately I’m not really good at following instruction nor waiting. So, if you know how to do it, please help me. I am planning on coming back to Spain after January 2023, and will be walking the Camino Frances. Where would I go to begin the process of legally remaining in Spain or Portugal or Italy?

There is an elderly gentleman who caretakers the cathedral at Molinaseca who moved from US after walking Camino. Maybe chat to him. He looks just like Col Sanders.

 

[Tassie Kaz]

I got a headache just reading the title of this post...

 

[sunflowers]

I guess marrying someone, who owns a house in Spain (near the Camino Frances or any other Camino) is politically incorrect...

 

[Robo]

unfortunately I’m not really good at following instruction nor waiting.

It might be a painful process for you then

If it were me, I'd seek the services of an immigration agent or similar.
We did this recently for my niece from Thailand who is living with us to study in Australia.
The process of doing it ourselves was a nightmare and has failed previously.

I'm sure the process of moving to Spain will be a bit of a lengthy and involved process too.
So maybe hire a professional?

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Because I searched for that funny sketch video on Spanish red tape YouTube presented me with another, serious, video this morning. Rather than posting it here I leave you with the suggestion to search YouTube for Spanish bureaucracy because there are a few videos that will be found. That way, besides getting a YouTuber's opinion on the subject, you can read all the comments left by the video's viewers.

 

[trecile]

I am a 67 year old US citizen and relocated to Spain this year. Insurance is certainly no reason to not move here. I pay €119 per month is all.

Don't you also have an Irish passport Kevin? I know that doesn't matter for insurance, but makes the move to Spain easier.

 

[naplesdon]

I just relocated from the US to Portugal at the age of 76. It begins with contacting a competent immigration attorney in the country you chose to relocate to who can manage the process and answer all of your questions. Nothing more, nothing less!

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

I just relocated from the US to Portugal at the age of 76. It begins with contacting a competent immigration attorney in the country you chose to relocate to who can manage the process and answer all of your questions. Nothing more, nothing less!

Are you going to stay year-round? i.e., are you aiming for residency? I am curious because I gather that although the people I know with the lovely B&B have the ‘golden ticket’ business property, when I was staying with them, they told me that they were trying to learn Portuguese to acquire permanent residency and then citizenship… and they were finding learning Portuguese to be very difficult. (I can appreciate that is I can read enough to get by, but have been grateful for the prevalence of French and English spoken there because of my sad lack of an ear for the language. I find it as challenging to make out aurally as Catalan.

And that‘s part of the reason I‘m looking to retire in Galicia — I can make out a fair amount of Gallego (I know it’s similar to Portuguese, but I can hear it more clearly), and my Castilian is coming along nicely.
And that reminds me! I received the advent lessons in Spanish from my friend, and now I’m looking for an immersive setting this summer for a few weeks.

So… any recommendations for language learning in Galicia I will take them!

I’m rambling a bit, sorry. But still curious about language in Portugal for retirement purposes, given that my Spanish is better and I think I could learn Gallego on the ground… but that I adore both Portugal and Galicia…

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Usually you don't need language proficiency for the residence permit, but you do for citizenship. Lots of people live in another country for decades and never seek citizenship, but obviously there are huge advantages to EU citizenship, specially if you want to live and work in other EU countries.

I have 3 EU residence permits, and every time I want to live, work or study in another country I have to go through the whole process again. However, if you are content to live in one country and only visit other EU states for recreational purposes, you probably don't need to worry about citizenship at all.

 

[naplesdon]

Are you going to stay year-round? i.e., are you aiming for residency? I am curious because I gather that although the people I know with the lovely B&B have the ‘golden ticket’ business property, when I was staying with them, they told me that they were trying to learn Portuguese to acquire permanent residency and then citizenship… and they were finding learning Portuguese to be very difficult. (I can appreciate that is I can read enough to get by, but have been grateful for the prevalence of French and English spoken there because of my sad lack of an ear for the language. I find it as challenging to make out aurally as Catalan.

And that‘s part of the reason I‘m looking to retire in Galicia — I can make out a fair amount of Gallego (I know it’s similar to Portuguese, but I can hear it more clearly), and my Castilian is coming along nicely.
And that reminds me! I received the advent lessons in Spanish from my friend, and now I’m looking for an immersive setting this summer for a few weeks.

So… any recommendations for language learning in Galicia I will take them!

I’m rambling a bit, sorry. But still curious about language in Portugal for retirement purposes, given that my Spanish is better and I think I could learn Gallego on the ground… but that I adore both Portugal and Galicia…

Permanently. I will go to school to learn the language but sadly the region I have settled in near Cascias the majority of the population speaks predominately English.

 

[Maxsmart]

Are you going to stay year-round? i.e., are you aiming for residency? I am curious because I gather that although the people I know with the lovely B&B have the ‘golden ticket’ business property, when I was staying with them, they told me that they were trying to learn Portuguese to acquire permanent residency and then citizenship… and they were finding learning Portuguese to be very difficult. (I can appreciate that is I can read enough to get by, but have been grateful for the prevalence of French and English spoken there because of my sad lack of an ear for the language. I find it as challenging to make out aurally as Catalan.

And that‘s part of the reason I‘m looking to retire in Galicia — I can make out a fair amount of Gallego (I know it’s similar to Portuguese, but I can hear it more clearly), and my Castilian is coming along nicely.
And that reminds me! I received the advent lessons in Spanish from my friend, and now I’m looking for an immersive setting this summer for a few weeks.

So… any recommendations for language learning in Galicia I will take them!

I’m rambling a bit, sorry. But still curious about language in Portugal for retirement purposes, given that my Spanish is better and I think I could learn Gallego on the ground… but that I adore both Portugal and Galicia…

I can recommend Academia Iria Flavia in Santiago. I rented an Airbnb in Santiago for the month of August and enrolled in Spanish lessons for the entire month. The instructors were all excellent and it’s a small, friendly organization. I enrolled in the standard group lessons held 9-1 daily, but they also provide individual lessons and intensive lessons. They also have options to stay in shared lodging with other students or with local families if you really want complete immersion. There were afternoon activities like walking tours in town or games or discussions of Galician culture. I also went on a bus tour to Finisterre they organized over a weekend. All in Spanish! I plan to go back again this year. www.ifspanish.com

 

[Maxsmart]

I can recommend Academia Iria Flavia in Santiago. I rented an Airbnb in Santiago for the month of August and took enrolled in Spanish lessons for the entire month. The instructors were all excellent and it’s a small, friendly organization. I enrolled in the standard group lessons held 9-1 daily, but they also provide individual lessons and intensive lessons. They also have options to stay in shared lodging with other students or with local families if you really want complete immersion. There were afternoon activities like walking tours in town or games or discussions of Galician culture. I also went on a bus tour to Finisterre they organized over a weekend. All in Spanish! I plan to go back again this year. www.if Spanish.com

Oh, and I discovered that outside of the tourist places surrounding the cathedral, almost nobody in Santiago speaks English! But people were always super nice and helpful when they saw I was trying to speak a little Spanish.

 

[Joe C]

Camino luminary John Rafferty (a.k.a., Johnnie Walker Santiago) is the current president of an organization called Age in Spain (https://www.ageinspain.org/), which works with English-speakers looking to move to the country or who are already there and need assistance.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Usually you don't need language proficiency for the residence permit, but you do for citizenship. Lots of people live in another country for decades and never seek citizenship, but obviously there are huge advantages to EU citizenship, specially if you want to live and work in other EU countries.

I have 3 EU residence permits, and every time I want to live, work or study in another country I have to go through the whole process again. However, if you are content to live in one country and only visit other EU states for recreational purposes, you probably don't need to worry about citizenship at all.

I’m not worried about the citizenship part. I’ll need the correct documents to reside in Spain as an EU National, but for me the whole relocation process is easier on account of that.
Mostly I’m just curious and figure that asking the questions will benefit others looking at the thread.
I’m also curious about language in general because I’ve sort of set Portugal aside for my lack os an ear for the language. But I do keep looking at places very close to the border (from Oia to Santiago to Ourense as a kind of triangle).
And I’m curious about language for myself, and others’ processes for learning new ones when we are supposed to be well beyond the best age at which to learn, not as a procedural matter but as a ‘joining the commnity’ matter.
For those celebrating, as I plan to sign off for Christmas eve soon: Feliz navidad, bo nadal, Feliz natal, joyeux noël, nollag shona, buon natale…. (I *think* I have covered the major languages I’ve encountered on camino here in my greetings).

 

[Kevin Considine]

You begin the process at the Spanish consulate in your home country, a lot depends on your age, employment qualifications, income, nationality, accumulated wealth, pension, ability to speak Spanish, health insurance. You name it and the Spanish authorities will want it. I started the process 18 months ago and gave up, even though my father was Spanish.. think of the worst beuro

your first port of call would be the Spanish Consulate in your country of residence. They’ll want to know things like age, qualifications, financial status, income, pension income, health insurance, ability in Spanish and more. I gave up after 18 months and my father was Spanish, if you think of the worst bureaucracy you’ve ever dealt with and double it you’ll be nearly there, best of luck to you..

You are right. It is a struggle. I have EU citizenship but my partner is Japanese and it is a very arduous process as you suggest.

 

[Kevin Considine]

Don't you also have an Irish passport Kevin? I know that doesn't matter for insurance, but makes the move to Spain easier.

Yes. Relatively easy for me. But my partner is Japanese. It’s been an ongoing struggle for her.

 

[shefollowsshells]

I just relocated from the US to Portugal at the age of 76. It begins with contacting a competent immigration attorney in the country you chose to relocate to who can manage the process and answer all of your questions. Nothing more, nothing less!

Don just noticing your name change!!!
Glad you didn’t change your avatar or I would have lost you…

Congrats!!!!

 

[La Rubia]

My husband and I enrolled in government-sponsored language classes this fall, and while Portuguese is not an easy language to learn, we persevere, and find ourselves already able to have simple conversations. Portugal requires A2 level language acquisition for permanent residency and for citizenship, and we do want to become citizens!

 

[WGroleau]

Not necessary to work, nor to buy property. My pensions and social security are more than enough to live comfortably in Spain, and more than the amount you must prove you have to get a "visa no lucrativo." This in spite of the fact that they are less than what folks in USA insist that "no one can live on." I considered a piso in Belorado for €325/mes but got one in Burgos for €400 and had health insurance for €33/mes. That only covered doctor visits, but for emergencies, the Veteran's Administration pays, and for non-emergency hospital, $53 per year travel insurance can get me back to a veteran's hospital in USA. From what I've heard/read from other people, full coverage instead of the V.A. inconvenience would also be within my means. For less than the co-pay for my U.S. prescriptions, I got the same things in Spain without prescription.

 

[Kevin Considine]

May I ask which part of Spain, Kevin?

Galicia

 

[lindam]

So, if you know how to do it, please help me.

You have had many helpful posts. The process of getting residency is time consuming and requires a great deal of patience. It can be done but must be done from your current country of residence. I have considerable experience in this regard having become a permanent resident of Spain as a non-EU citizen, and more recently relocating to the Azores in Portugal. Not for the faint of heart, I assure you.

 

[Keith H]

Spanish red tape.

This was so accurate we were dying laughing (that being said we’ve dealt with lovely people every time)

 

[Keith H]

I hear your wishes, but can add the following insight:
When visiting last month, the ex-pat papers were all up in arms about the planned removal of an easy route to residence rights in Portugal - it appeared that all you had to do was to buy a property with a minimum value of something like 250,000 euros and you were welcomed.
This policy was also controversial and unpopular because it had artificially raised the cost of property which was excluding Portuguese nationals.

I was under the understanding that they have excluded purchasing in some of the larger cities (Lisbon, Porto etc). Airbnb caused a similar issue here in Barcelona. I read recently that 40% of properties in the city are owned by individuals or companies with 10+ properties. I don’t have a reference for that so not 100% sure of of the veracity.

 

[naplesdon]

I was under the understanding that they have excluded purchasing in some of the larger cities (Lisbon, Porto etc). Airbnb caused a similar issue here in Barcelona. I read recently that 40% of properties in the city are owned by individuals or companies with 10+ properties. I don’t have a reference for that so not 100% sure of of the veracity.

Check your sources. Golden Visas in Spain and Portugal are quite different. In Portugal the Golden Visa requires an investment in a less populated area, while the D7 allows renting anywhere, That is a big deal.

 

[Keith H]

Happy to be corrected on it.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I love the country of Spain, my last journey in 2018… It was decided this is where I want to live, but I don’t know the process, and unfortunately I’m not really good at following instruction nor waiting. So, if you know how to do it, please help me. I am planning on coming back to Spain after January 2023, and will be walking the Camino Frances. Where would I go to begin the process of legally remaining in Spain or Portugal or Italy?

Hi AnaRosario,
This is a difficult and time-consuming process. Expect it to take a year or two or more. These things are not for the faint of heart.

Here’s a link to the US Spanish embassy that tells you how to apply for residency visa in Spain, but that doesn’t allow you to work. You need to have an independent yearly income of $36,000 (social Security, pension, investment income [Edit: Or have that amount in the bank]) to get one. This is on the US Embassy website, but I think this information applies to anybody who doesn’t have a EU passport or residency.

Non-working Residency Visa - Consular Section - Embassy of Spain

Non-working (Non-lucrative) Residency Visa - Consular Section - Embassy of Spain in Washington D.C.

www.exteriores.gob.es

And here’s a link to the visa page of the Spanish embassy in the United States, which Shows you all the different kind of visas that are available.

Consular services - Embassy of Spain in Washington DC

Consular services - Embassy of Spain in Washington DC - General visa information

www.exteriores.gob.es

You should also look to see if your ancestry would allow you to get a passport from any European Union country. I was able to get one from Italy based on my ancestry, and I think several other countries in the EU offer it. This is the kind of thing that takes a lot of time and research, but it solves all your problems. Here’s a good page that gives you an overview of the policies of every country in the European Union:

The Complete List of EU Citizenship by Ancestry/Descent Policies - IMI - Investment Migration Insider

17 countries offer EU citizenship to grandchildren, great-grandchildren, or sometimes even more distant descendants of European citizens. See our complete list and interactive map.

www.imidaily.com

It took me six years of paperwork to finally get recognized as an Italian citizen. But I had a cousin who was eligible for Italian citizenship and paid about five or $6000 to a lawyer in Milan that took care of everything in just a few months. Wishing you success.

 

[Lurch]

If you can pull this off, please let the Forum know how you did it! My own casual inquiries have suggested that retiring to Spain is not as easy as we (meaning Americans) might like it to be ---- for all kinds of reasons!

I'm retiring after many years of active diocesan parish ministry effective Dec 25, and if I were to lose my beloved wife of 40+ years (Anglican Catholic clergy can/do marry, FYI!) then I would try and relocate to someplace on the Camino Frances as fast as I could -- Pamplona or Burgos or Leon perhaps, but more likely some smaller town like Najera, or Carrion de los Condes, or Villafranca del Bierzo. And spend my twilight years sipping wine on terraces and waving at the passing peregrinos....! Mi corazon vive en Espana.

Congratulations on your retirement! Enjoy it, you have earned it

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

You should also look to see if your ancestry would allow you to get a passport from any European Union country.

To get Irish citizenship by ancestry it may be possible that your birth or birth of a parent or a grandparent in Northern Ireland may qualify you also (I saw something about great-grandparent too). So don't give up on Ireland if only NI is in your blood; check the rules.

 

[Karl Oz]

If you can pull this off, please let the Forum know how you did it! My own casual inquiries have suggested that retiring to Spain is not as easy as we (meaning Americans) might like it to be ---- for all kinds of reasons!

I'm retiring after many years of active diocesan parish ministry effective Dec 25, and if I were to lose my beloved wife of 40+ years (Anglican Catholic clergy can/do marry, FYI!) then I would try and relocate to someplace on the Camino Frances as fast as I could -- Pamplona or Burgos or Leon perhaps, but more likely some smaller town like Najera, or Carrion de los Condes, or Villafranca del Bierzo. And spend my twilight years sipping wine on terraces and waving at the passing peregrinos....! Mi corazon vive en Espana.

Enjoy retirement Rev. I ended work 5 months ago and have been learning Italian in Italy for the past two. Cannot recommend the change more highly!

 

[Keith H]

As an addendum to Stephan’s post above you can have the ~30k euros/dollars in savings rather than as income. However the trick is after one year you get to apply for a 2 year extension where you’d have to show over 60k euros/dollars. After that there is one more 2 year extension (60k again). Then you can apply for permanent residency. This is the route I’ve been fortunate enough to go down due to the sale of my house. So basically if you can have 60k just sitting in an account for around 4 years the process is pretty easy. I didn’t have to do it with the monthly income route so I can’t comment on the ease of going that way but I imagine with something as regular as pensions it would also be quite easy.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

As an addendum to Stephan’s post above you can have the ~30k euros/dollars in savings rather than as income. However the trick is after one year you get to apply for a 2 year extension where you’d have to show over 60k euros/dollars. After that there is one more 2 year extension (60k again). Then you can apply for permanent residency. This is the route I’ve been fortunate enough to go down due to the sale of my house. So basically if you can have 60k just sitting in an account for around 4 years the process is pretty easy. I didn’t have to do it with the monthly income route so I can’t comment on the ease of going that way but I imagine with something as regular as pensions it would also be quite easy.

I didn’t quite understand that about just having the money in the bank. That’s great , probably makes it a lot more doable for people if they have a nest egg. And I assume once you’re a resident you become a Spanish taxpayer? Not sure if Spain collects taxes on money that’s earned in overseas for non-citizens, but some countries do?

 

[lindam]

I didn’t quite understand that about just having the money in the bank. That’s great , probably makes it a lot more doable for people if they have a nest egg. And I assume once you’re a resident you become a Spanish taxpayer? Not sure if Spain collects taxes on money that’s earned in overseas for non-citizens, but some countries do?

Yes, you will then be a Spanish tax resident. Depending upon the country where your income is earned, there may be a dual taxation agreement to avoid paying taxes twice. In most instances you still need to file an annual tax return in both countries and credit is given to avoid the aforementioned dual taxation.

 

[henrythedog]

I didn’t quite understand that about just having the money in the bank. That’s great , probably makes it a lot more doable for people if they have a nest egg. And I assume once you’re a resident you become a Spanish taxpayer? Not sure if Spain collects taxes on money that’s earned in overseas for non-citizens, but some countries do?

As above; you’ll be taxed on worldwide and it’s for you to demonstrate that you’ve already been taxed in another jurisdiction with whom a 2-tax agreement exists. Blame the IRS.

 

[henrythedog]

To get Irish citizenship by ancestry it may be possible that your birth or birth of a parent or a grandparent in Northern Ireland may qualify you also (I saw something about great-grandparent too). So don't give up on Ireland if only NI is in your blood; check the rules.

It’s one grandparent born on the island of Ireland. If a great-grandparent were permissible then half the population of the UK would be holding a European passport - just like Boris Johnson’s father and Nigel Farage’s children.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

It’s one grandparent born on the island of Ireland. If a great-grandparent were permissible then half the population of the UK would be holding a European passport - just like Boris Johnson’s father and Nigel Farage’s children.

Unless your parents born in another country were still granted Irish citizenship by birth as noted in the foreign registry. For those in the USA, it would not apply because the American government does not allow an American born citizen to hold a second citizenship (my step-nieces both tried to acquire Canadian citizenship through their father, but were informed they would have to give up US citizenship, and so they did not take the leap).
Anyway, the conditions required for going to the great-grandparent are on the Irish website. The long and short of it is that your parents still have to have been registered as ‘foreign birth Irish’ (As might happen, for example, if one moved to the north for work and stayed there but registered two generations of offspring on the foreign births list. For those who are old enough that their great grand-parents predate the formation of the republic and its unique passports, it would be far less likely to have the required documents in place). So that wipes out many Gen X and older in Canada even if dual citizenship is allowed here (because most of our parents were born as British subjects and could absolutely not be resistered as foreign born Irish).
So… it’s possible, but is unlikely to apply to the bulk of North Americans.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

For those in the USA, it would not apply because the American government does not allow an American born citizen to hold a second citizenship .

That’s absolutely not true anymore. From my understanding of it, the US government has different agreements with different countries. I’m not sure about the situation in Canada, but I definitely have an Italian citizenship and an US citizenship and it’s not a problem with either country. And I only pay taxes in the country I reside in.

However, My mother was a German national when I was born, and I could’ve applied to get German citizenship, but I would’ve had to disavow my US citizenship to get it. That was Germany’s rule at least at the time about 20 years ago. These things can change.

There’s many dual citizens living in the United States and abroad. What the United States used to do is insist that people disavow their previous citizenship when they naturalized. But nowadays they don’t insist on that with every country anymore.

What you do have to do as a US citizen or green card holder, Is always file a US tax return, no matter which country you reside in. Usually non-resident citizens of countries do not have to file tax returns.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

That’s absolutely not true anymore. From my understanding of it, the US government has different agreements with different countries. I’m not sure about the situation in Canada, but I definitely have an Italian citizenship and an US citizenship and it’s not a problem with either country. And I only pay taxes in the country I reside in.

However, My mother was a German national when I was born, and I could’ve applied to get German citizenship, but I would’ve had to disavow my US citizenship to get it. That was Germany’s rule at least at the time about 20 years ago. These things can change.

There’s many dual citizens living in the United States and abroad. What the United States used to do is insist that people disavow their previous citizenship when they naturalized. But nowadays they don’t insist on that with every country anymore.

What you do have to do as a US citizen or green card holder, Is always file a US tax return, no matter which country you reside in. Usually non-resident citizens of countries do not have to file tax returns.

Well, then it might be something to look into. It was not that long ago when step-brother renounced his Canadian to become a US citizen. And more recently that his kids found they could not seek Canadian without giving up American. I have a pile of cousins by marriage in that boat too. Maybe they will be able to look into it… though I think they’d mostly be looking for Portuguese citizenship. At any rate, I digress.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I didn’t quite understand that about just having the money in the bank. That’s great , probably makes it a lot more doable for people if they have a nest egg. And I assume once you’re a resident you become a Spanish taxpayer? Not sure if Spain collects taxes on money that’s earned in overseas for non-citizens, but some countries do?

No necessarily. You can choose to pay tax elsewhere if you want. My parents have Greek permanent residence permits and still pay tax in the UK.

The point of the money is to prove that you are able to keep yourself. However, it is a bit contradictory as if you spend the money on living, you won't have it in the bank to renew next time. The point is the actual cost of living is much less than the required income.

 

[LTfit]

FYI there are only two countries in the world that tax based on citizenship (or in the case of the US a "US person", it's complicated)
and not residency: the US and Eritrea! Even if your children are born outside the US but have US citizenship they too, must file US income taxes for the rest of their life. It's crazy, even if they have never lived in the US! I know from experience.

Renoucing US citizenship is expensive, one must pay more than $2,000 to do so!

There are indeed countries which do not allow dual nationality and even don't permit giving up the original one, Morocco and Turkey for example. Crazy!

 

[Keith H]

Spain doesn’t allow you to have a Spanish passport if you hold any other (this was up for new legislation so may have changed recently) but permanent residency is pretty close to the same.

Regarding taxes, yes you do become a Spanish tax resident but as stated already there are dual taxation agreements with most countries.

The money sitting in the bank method is really only useful if you can let it sit there and live on current income. If that’s feasible it simplifies the process.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

You can choose to pay tax elsewhere if you want. My parents have Greek permanent residence permits and still pay tax in the UK.

That was also possible when I lived in the Netherlands, although not for income tax. But they gave me the option to pay my social security (pension) portion of my taxes to the US instead of the Netherlands. On the assumption that I would be going back there and collecting in retirement.

What I suspect is the truth is just like with dual citizenship, different countries have different treaties with different countries! So there is no hard and fast rule on any of this.

 

[RossIreland]

If you can pull this off, please let the Forum know how you did it! My own casual inquiries have suggested that retiring to Spain is not as easy as we (meaning Americans) might like it to be ---- for all kinds of reasons!

I'm retiring after many years of active diocesan parish ministry effective Dec 25, and if I were to lose my beloved wife of 40+ years (Anglican Catholic clergy can/do marry, FYI!) then I would try and relocate to someplace on the Camino Frances as fast as I could -- Pamplona or Burgos or Leon perhaps, but more likely some smaller town like Najera, or Carrion de los Condes, or Villafranca del Bierzo. And spend my twilight years sipping wine on terraces and waving at the passing peregrinos....! Mi corazon vive en Espana.

Sipping wine whilst waving at Peregrinos - sounds perfect!

 

[David Tallan]

Unless your parents born in another country were still granted Irish citizenship by birth as noted in the foreign registry. For those in the USA, it would not apply because the American government does not allow an American born citizen to hold a second citizenship (my step-nieces both tried to acquire Canadian citizenship through their father, but were informed they would have to give up US citizenship, and so they did not take the leap).

RE: Americans and dual citizenship. The rules for that changed during my lifetime. I was told that I would have to choose between American and Canadian citizenship when I came of age, having been registered for both at birth. I don't remember if it was 18 or 21 or some other age. It was decades ago. By the time I reached that age, the rules had changed and I was allowed to keep both citizenships. So to some extent, the US does accept dual citizenships now. Now, if I want to avoid the hassle of filing taxes in both countries, I will have to renounce my American citizenship formally. I'm looking into what that would involve, since I don't see myself ever taking up residence in the States.

 

[LTfit]

Now, if I want to avoid the hassle of filing taxes in both countries, I will have to renounce my American citizenship formally. I'm looking into what that would involve, since I don't see myself ever taking up residence in the States.

It's actually quite simple but as I mentioned above in order to do so you must pay the US government about $2,300.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I will have to renounce my American citizenship formally. I'm looking into what that would involve, since I don't see myself ever taking up residence in the States.

Start looking here:

7 FAM 1260 RENUNCIATION OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP ABROAD

It mentions a fee of $2,350.

I think you still have to file and pay taxes for a few years after renouncing.

 

[LTfit]

If you renounce your US citizenship you are no longer required to file taxes with the IRS.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

RE: Americans and dual citizenship. The rules for that changed during my lifetime. I was told that I would have to choose between American and Canadian citizenship when I came of age, having been registered for both at birth. I don't remember if it was 18 or 21 or some other age. It was decades ago. By the time I reached that age, the rules had changed and I was allowed to keep both citizenships. So to some extent, the US does accept dual citizenships now. Now, if I want to avoid the hassle of filing taxes in both countries, I will have to renounce my American citizenship formally. I'm looking into what that would involve, since I don't see myself ever taking up residence in the States.

I have a friend in that situation, and he married an American who lives in Canada. He was born in the States while his father was in medical residency… now he’s in a massive problem around taxation (having not lived in the US since he was a newborn).
So… in addition to not taking up residency in the US… don’t marry an American who has residency in Canada?
So so so complicated.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I think you still have to file and pay taxes for a few years after renouncing.

If you renounce your US citizenship you are no longer required to file taxes with the IRS.

Sorry, I was wrong. I was mistaking special tax implications for five years prior to renounciation as coming after renouncing.

So… in addition to not taking up residency in the US… don’t marry an American who has residency in Canada?
So so so complicated.

Talk to Harry and Megan about complications.

 

[David Tallan]

I have a friend in that situation, and he married an American who lives in Canada. He was born in the States while his father was in medical residency… now he’s in a massive problem around taxation (having not lived in the US since he was a newborn).
So… in addition to not taking up residency in the US… don’t marry an American who has residency in Canada?
So so so complicated.

I never lived in the States and never worked there. I was born in Canada but was registered as American at birth. Now I have to file taxes there and keep them up to date on my financial assets.

 

[lalaone]

If you renounce your US citizenship you are no longer required to file taxes with the IRS.

This is basically true. In some cases, however, there is also an "exit tax" on top of the $2,350 administrative fee. It applies to individual net worth of $2 million. That sounds like a lot. But since the figure includes retirement accounts, home value, pensions and other things that near-retirees have built over decades and do not often intend to liquidate all at once (because they intend to draw them down over long periods of time) it can come as a shock to potentially have to sell portions immediately to pay the exit tax. This was instituted in 2008 and is still...as most tax issues...confusing to say the least.

 

[Former member 52467]

If you can pull this off, please let the Forum know how you did it! My own casual inquiries have suggested that retiring to Spain is not as easy as we (meaning Americans) might like it to be ---- for all kinds of reasons!

I'm retiring after many years of active diocesan parish ministry effective Dec 25, and if I were to lose my beloved wife of 40+ years (Anglican Catholic clergy can/do marry, FYI!) then I would try and relocate to someplace on the Camino Frances as fast as I could -- Pamplona or Burgos or Leon perhaps, but more likely some smaller town like Najera, or Carrion de los Condes, or Villafranca del Bierzo. And spend my twilight years sipping wine on terraces and waving at the passing peregrinos....! Mi corazon vive en Espana.

Nothing better than waving at passing peregrinos especially if one has already finished walking for the day!

 

[Mycroft]

I love the country of Spain, my last journey in 2018… It was decided this is where I want to live, but I don’t know the process, and unfortunately I’m not really good at following instruction nor waiting. So, if you know how to do it, please help me. I am planning on coming back to Spain after January 2023, and will be walking the Camino Frances. Where would I go to begin the process of legally remaining in Spain or Portugal or Italy?

I don't know much about moving to Spain but I have looked a bit into Scotland. If my grandparents instead of my great grandparents had been the ones to leave the old country, I'd be able to apply for citizenship. Same for Italy, so perhaps other countries have that set up as well. In Scotland they recently changed the amount you need in the bank to 2 million so that lets me out!
(I have seen ads for tiny towns in Italy where they are looking for people to come repopulate those places but the ones that provide a stipend are looking for young couples who will have children....)
There are lawyers, as mentioned by others here, who specialize in doing the paperwork and who know the requirements and who theoretically will make your life and move easier.
All the best.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

If my grandparents instead of my great grandparents had been the ones to leave the old country, I'd be able to apply for citizenship. Same for Italy, so perhaps other countries have that set up as well.

Having been recognized as an Italian citizen I can tell you that whether it’s your grandparents or great grandparents doesn’t matter. If you have a direct direct line with an Italian ancestor after 1861, when Italy actually became a nation and created a constitution, you can be recognized as an Italian citizen.

That means no one ever disavowed it officially, and you have a direct line. The enormous amount of work involved is tracking down and checking all the paperwork of your ancestors. You can search for the details on the Internet by using the search terms “Italian citizenship jure sanguis.”

There’s other details involved with that to be sure that one qualifies, but that’s the basic requirements.

And it actually doesn’t sound very difficult to get Spanish residency. At least if you have the funds. All you need is $36,000 in the bank or a investment or pension income of $3000 a month And to prove you’re not a criminal.

I can just imagine the laughter you would get in a US immigration office if you asked for residency based on those parameters. Although as far as I know the US doesn’t even offer a non-lucrative visa that is just for residency but doesn’t allow you to work.

 

[peregrina2000]

Just a heads up for anyone going the Irish route. I was happy to get my Irish passport but sad to learn that my children were ineligible. If I had received citizenship prior to their birth, however, they would have been eligible.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Just. heads up for anyone going the Irish route. I was happy to get my Irish passport but sad to learn that my children were ineligible. If I had received citizenship prior to their birth, however, they would have been eligible.

Yes, my mum has hers but I can't get it.