Rome to Santiago de compostela via Barcelona

[CalamityJayne]

Hi All, My partner and I are planning to walk the ways from Rome to Santiago de compostela in both 2024 and 2025 ( due to the fact that we are australians and so only get 3 months visas. So plan to walk for 2 months and have a month more or less staying elsewhere each year. Has anyone done this? Can you help us with what books to use, what ways to do? Any help is gratefully appreciated. Trish

 

[mspath]

CalamityJayne,

Welcome to the forum!

Here is an earlier thread that may be helpful for your planning. Additional threads might be found in the forum topic Other Walks Around the World.

Here is book that should provide insights.

Good luck with your research and whenever/wherever you do go Buen camino to you both.

 

[dick bird]

Hi All, My partner and I are planning to walk the ways from Rome to Santiago de compostela in both 2024 and 2025 ( due to the fact that we are australians and so only get 3 months visas. So plan to walk for 2 months and have a month more or less staying elsewhere each year. Has anyone done this? Can you help us with what books to use, what ways to do? Any help is gratefully appreciated. Trish

Good luck. Have you thought about the Chemin d’Arles via Toulouse and Somport? Possibly a more traditional route, though the Cami Cátala appeals.

 

[OZAJ]

I walked Rome to SdC in 2012, but not via Barcelona. My information is probably too out of date to be useful to you. I used Atti maps, ancient CSJ guides and paper maps. It is probably the most rewarding Camino I have walked, despite about 9 days after Genoa which were unpleasant. I only got lost once. I spent a brief period in hospital in Nice having my head stitched up by an angel, who was described by the doctor who removed the stitches in Arles as an artiste.

I got a mention in the book "Wrong Way for a Pizza". Its author stayed in the same pub as I did near Canterbury a couple of days after me.

 

[jungleboy]

Is the Barcelona visit going to be part of the walk or part of the non-walking portion?

 

[CalamityJayne]

Good luck. Have you thought about the Chemin d’Arles via Toulouse and Somport? Possibly a more traditional route, though the Cami Cátala appeals.

Is the Barcelona visit going to be part of the walk or part of the non-walking portion?

We are only walking so was hoping to walk in and then walk up to possible Burgos but would prefer to actually find a way through to Madrid and up from there is it is possible.

 

[jungleboy]

Just looking at the Wise Pilgrim map it doesn’t really look like there are established routes that would get you from France to Barcelona to Madrid in a logical way. Rome-Santiago would be an epic pilgrimage as it is without significant detours.

 

[dick bird]

The traditional route between Rome and Santiago, in either direction, would be via Arles and Toulouse and would go nowhere near Barcelona. But if you start from Barcelona you join the Frances near Puente la Reina and on to Burgos. The Camino de Madrid starts there, but no other route actually passes through the city. Jungle boy’s map shows this clearly.

 

[JabbaPapa]

There are not many Albergues between Menton and Arles, and then after that between Montpellier and Girona -- though some have started opening up after Girona I believe.

Notable Pilgrim Albergues outside the Arles Way are the ones at Perpignan, Béziers, and Puget-sur-Argens -- though there are a couple of others. The nuns at Laghet give a good welcome, you can eat there too.

A network for pilgrim hosting by private individuals does exist between Menton and Arles, though.

 

[JabbaPapa]

We are only walking so was hoping to walk in and then walk up to possible Burgos but would prefer to actually find a way through to Madrid and up from there is it is possible.

Via Barcelona, the only really feasible plan for that would be to carry on along the coast to Valencia, then head up from there ; and detour to Madrid DIY from about Cuenca. Terrain otherwise is just not friendly for it.

Cuenca > Uclés I guess, to the Camino de Santiago de Uclés ?

The only properly sensible route, really, is from Barcelona on the Camí Catalàn.

But then my own last Camino wasn't on a "sensible route" either !!

 

[JabbaPapa]

if you start from Barcelona you join the Frances near Puente la Reina

Or Logroño.

The Camino de Madrid starts there, but no other route actually passes through the city.

The Camino de Santiago de Uclés does.

And actually, looking again, there's a secondary route Valencia > Motilla del Palancar > Tarancón > Madrid > etc. -- Though personally, I'd DIY that portion significantly, for tarmac & main roads avoidance, avoid Tarancón completely, but get up through Uclés instead.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

My partner and I are planning to walk the ways from Rome to Santiago de compostela in both 2024 and 2025 ( due to the fact that we are australians and so only get 3 months visas.

I've got good news about that part of your post I've emphasized above. It is possible to spend more than 90 days at once in the Schengen Zone as a tourist by using bilateral treaties. Australians and New Zealanders seem to be especially fortunate this way. Check out the webpage linked to below and then search the forum, a lot has been written on this here.

Contact embassies or consulates in Australia and you may find that you can walk continuously from Rome to Lourdes to Santiago to Fatima by spending up to 90 days each in Italy, France, Spain and Portugal without having to leave the Schengen zone. The problem may be more a matter of money than time but you would save yourselves return Europe/Australia tickets.

It involves work, record keeping and care as, once your "free" 90 days are up your route and method of travel has to keep you out of countries you did not get permission to stay for an extra period.

Unlimited visa in Europe. For Free. Maybe.

I spent nine out the last 12 months in Europe. 90 days in the Schengen area. Then 95 days out of the Schengen, in Belarus. Then 90 days in the Schengen. Words cannot describe how much I love Europe…

thefreedominitiative.wordpress.com

The URL of the above is https://thefreedominitiative.wordpress.com/2015/04/24/unlimited-visa-in-europe-for-free-maybe/

 

[JabbaPapa]

Contact embassies or consulates in Australia and you may find that you can walk continuously from Rome to Lourdes to Santiago to Fatima by spending up to 90 days each in Italy, France, Spain and Portugal without having to leave the Schengen zone.

Reading the detail of that, it may not be possible. Schengen limits appear to apply in France and Spain regardless.

It might work in Italy, but then CalamityJane would need to be walking in the other direction ...

 

[Kathar1na]

Contact embassies or consulates in Australia and you may find that you can walk continuously from Rome to Lourdes to Santiago to Fatima by spending up to 90 days each in Italy, France, Spain and Portugal without having to leave the Schengen zone.

I thought that I had posted the list of currently valid bilateral agreements some time ago. Neither Spain nor France have such bilateral agreement with Australia any longer:

List of Member States' bilateral visa waiver agreements with third countries allowing for an extension of the period of stay in accordance with Article 20(2), point (b), of the Convention implementing the Schengen Agreement (2019/C 130/07), see​

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52019XC0408(02)&qid=1678710918625​

 

[Kathar1na]

Also, while I am not a lawyer and far from competent in correctly interpreting legalese, this is what the Schengen Agreement actually says in its current version:

‘2. Paragraph 1 shall not affect each Contracting Party’s right to extend beyond 90 days in any 180-day period an alien’s stay on its territory:​

(a) in exceptional circumstances; or​

(b) in accordance with a bilateral agreement concluded before the entry into force of this Convention and notified to the Commission in accordance with paragraph 2d.’​

To me, this sounds like you can spend 90 days in a single country’s territory and then have your stay extended in this territory without a visa but you cannot zoom around in Schengen and mix and match.

Anyway, all this will be much clearer when the EES system is operational because such extensions will then have to be entered into your electronic file. We are in 2023 now … don’t rely on old websites.

Sorry for the thread drift but people should not get their hopes up unnecessarily.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I thought that I had posted the list of currently valid bilateral agreements some time ago. Neither Spain nor France have such bilateral agreement with Australia any longer:

Yes you did, thank you. I think the treaty changed to an agreement but I haven't yet found the details. It's tough searching on a phone and having your wife bug you for her turn with it. Anyway, this is what I've got.:

Exchange of Letters constituting an Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of the Republic of France relating to the Movement of Nationals between the Two Countries

 

[VNwalking]

We are in 2023 now … don’t rely on old websites.

Sorry for the thread drift but people should not get their hopes up unnecessarily.

 

[Kathar1na]

Exchange of Letters

The list of bilateral agreements of significance for being allowed to stay longer than 90 consecutive days in Schengen in post #14 isn't just a list on the internet. As is says in the title and in its text, it was drawn up by law on the basis of what the EU countries said ("notified") that they had as bilateral agreements in this specific Schengen context; the list was published in 2019 in the legal bulletin of the EU. If an EU country and a non-EU country is not paired on this list, then the EU country does not have such a bilateral agreement with the non-EU country and a prolongation of the 90 days period is not possible by and in that EU country.

If that is not convincing enough: France is not on the Australian government's smart traveller website about Bilateral visa waiver and other reciprocal agreements. Italy and Spain are but there is no information whether it is a "visa waiver" or "other" reciprocal agreement.

If that is not convincing enough:

• Exchange of Letters ... Australia ... France ... movement of their nationals ... Canberra, 14 July 1998. Entry into force: provisionally in 1998, definitively in 1999 (copy on international.vlex.com, also Wikipedia)
• Schengen Agreement: Signed in 1985
• Schengen Convention: Signed 1990. Entry into force: 1995.
• Legal text quoted in #15: IF ... bilateral agreement concluded before the entry into force of this Convention and notified to the Commission

Conclusion: 1998 and 1999 are not before 1995. Your honour, I rest my case.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Edit. @Kathar1na's post above came in just as I was posting this one. Actually I haven't read that yet as it's time for our walk.
------------

I got my phone back from Peg.

This Australian Government webpage (the version updated February 28, 2023 anyway) does say there are still bilateral agreements with Italy and Spain but it doesn't mention France or Portugal.

https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/before-you-go/the-basics/schengen#bilateral

You probably can walk the 1,200 km (Google Maps) from Rome to Perpignan near the border with Spain in 90 days so you need only worry about a Spain extension.

I didn't say things would be easy.

Contact embassies or consulates in Australia and you may find that you can walk continuously from Rome to Lourdes to Santiago to Fatima by spending up to 90 days each in Italy, France, Spain and Portugal without having to leave the Schengen zone. ... It involves work, record keeping and care

 

[Kathar1na]

This Australian Government webpage (the version updated February 28, 2023 anyway) does say there are still bilateral agreements with Italy and Spain but it doesn't mention France or Portugal

I am sure that pilgrims would be keen to know more about this.

I searched the Australian government‘s database: 42 bilateral agreements with Spain turned up, for example about social security, about extradition and about olive oil. One was about visa: Exchange of Notes constituting an Agreement with the Government of Spain relating to Visas and Visa Fees [1961]. When I clicked on it, it said: No Longer in Force. Which is presumably the reason why the Spanish government did not notify the EU Commission about any bilateral agreements with Australia that are of interest in the context of an exception of the 90/180 rule and why Spain and Australia are not paired on the EU's bilateral agreements list for Schengen law.

Australian pilgrims will just have to walk faster, or a shorter distance, or travel several times to Europe to walk an exceptionally long pilgrimage distance that ends in Spain. Or get a longer term Schengen visa - apparently it is not so hard to do.

 

[Kathar1na]

@CalamityJayne, here is a map from www.camminando.eu, an Italian website, that illustrates suitable trails for walking from Rome to Santiago. There appears to be a trail from Narbonne to Barcelona.

 

[Kathar1na]

There appears to be a trail from Narbonne to Barcelona.

Here is a thread about this part: Arles to Camino Catalan via Narbonne and Perpignan

 

[dick bird]

I've got good news about that part of your post I've emphasized above. It is possible to spend more than 90 days at once in the Schengen Zone as a tourist by using bilateral treaties. Australians and New Zealanders seem to be especially fortunate this way. Check out the webpage linked to below and then search the forum, a lot has been written on this here.

Contact embassies or consulates in Australia and you may find that you can walk continuously from Rome to Lourdes to Santiago to Fatima by spending up to 90 days each in Italy, France, Spain and Portugal without having to leave the Schengen zone. The problem may be more a matter of money than time but you would save yourselves return Europe/Australia tickets.

It involves work, record keeping and care as, once your "free" 90 days are up your route and method of travel has to keep you out of countries you did not get permission to stay for an extra period.

Unlimited visa in Europe. For Free. Maybe.

I spent nine out the last 12 months in Europe. 90 days in the Schengen area. Then 95 days out of the Schengen, in Belarus. Then 90 days in the Schengen. Words cannot describe how much I love Europe…

thefreedominitiative.wordpress.com

The URL of the above is https://thefreedominitiative.wordpress.com/2015/04/24/unlimited-visa-in-europe-for-free-maybe/

Do you know anyone who has actually done this? A friend of ours tried and gave up.

 

[JabbaPapa]

There appears to be a trail from Narbonne to Barcelona.

Since about the beginning of 2022, the Catalan Pilgrims Association (and the Catalan Tourist Office) has started promoting the particular route via Figueres > Girona > Sils > Sant Celoni as the "main trail" of the Camí Catalàn / Camí de Sant Jaume, whether coming into Figueres from the Perthus or from Llançà -- whereas before, the recommended route had been from Girona towards Vic > Artés > Manresa. The latter is the route I walked myself in 2019 ; though had information at the time been better, I think I would have walked via Sant Celoni and Sant Cugat instead.

And apparently there have been pilgrim infrastructure improvements not just on the main Camí Catalàn route(s) from Montserrat, but also on the routes leading to Montserrat from France and the Mediterranean coast, including from Barcelona itself. New Camino waymarkers have been put down inside the city, for example. And a few new Albergues have opened.