Safety on the camino portugués

[periperi]

Look, I hate to start this topic, but I know itºs available in some format in german-language forums, and we need to be aware, and supporting each other.

Serious concerns about safety, particularly for peregrinas, on the portuguese route exist.

Iºve just done the portugués for the second time (started in Porto in June, in Lisboa in September), and have personally experienced, and had my peregrina buddies experience, serious unpleasantness in their caminho experience.

Firstly, there is a known issue of a flasher near the bridge at San Pedro de Rates. From the MO, it sounds like there might be two of them (an older guy who just flashes, perhaps with accompanying self-pleasuring, and a second, younger guy who last year had a knife. This may be the same guy that followed my peregrina mate up the road in a car this year too.)

Second, this month a pair of late 20s peregrina buddies experienced flasher/other activity occuring in Valença, and across the border (perhaps by the same individual on one occasion). Worryingly, when they tried to report it, they were passed between the Spanish and Portuguese police, and were finally unable to make a report because none of these police spoke any of the langues spoken by my friends. More seriously, when they tried to report these via albergue hospitalleros, they were met with polite but unhelpful information/consolation.

Third, my own experience was of serious assault just after Porrino, and of someone (I thought it was the hospitallero) repeatedly following me into the shower/bathroom in Rubiaes. I canºt report the first issue, but when I tried the issue of the second to the attenon of relevant people (eg, hospitalleros in Ponte de Lima) it was dismissed with the comment that Portuguese are friendly people, and the hospitallero at Rubiaes is a nice chap, I must have encountered a rogue local. Fine. But what to do about it?!

Also, and noting that my previous experiences on this route may have influenced this, I donºt really consider that the route south of Porto is safe for women (maybe slightly younger, but not necessarily attractive women!). People are often attracted to a camino for psychological/philosophical reasons, and feeling unsafe for hundreds of kilometres isnºt necessarily best practice in dealing with this!

Itºs an absolute shame- I really believe in the geography and history behind the Portuguese route and would love to see it working properly. To this end, practical suggestions, are
-that albergues should keep an incident log and act as a main contact between peregrina/os and police (one factor behind my friends not taking further action after their experience with the flasher, despite having important identifying details such as car registration number, was the knowledge that the hospitallero had been dismissive of their experience, and that making a police report would mean being unable to meet the albergue curfew)
-that we need group caminhos of less-travelled sections of the way, to raise awareness amongst locals (eg, a basic issue was that in one park I was directed away from fuente, but locals hadnºt realised that a drinking water source 5 metres away would have met my -quite desperate!- needs)

And just to qualify, my friends are quite beautiful late 20-somethings but travelling in a pair, and Iºm in my mid 30s (perhaps taken for younger/older as a sozinhu peregrina?). And we all strongly feel that just because we are women in Portugal & Spain, we shouldnºt feel that we are easy prey.

As peregrinos, we keep an eye (both critical and supportive) on our community, but we don´t exist in a bubble. We can´t (and shouldnºt) control locals, but we should be kept safe on caminho.

Any comments, suggestions on how to make the route safer?

 

[peregrina2000]

Wow, I am surprised and saddened to hear this. But I suppose it's part and parcel of the Camino. I've walked the Camino Frances three times and on each occasion saw a flasher, sometimes more than once. My very first was on the way down from the Alto del Perdon, and the others were near Los Arcos, once near Navarette, once right outside Maneru (before Ciraqui) and once very close to Monte de Gozo. I should add that I am a 60 year old female, either walking alone or with another female.

My impression is that once the community decides that the Camino is a valuable resource, they will take the problems seriously and complaints will trigger some serious action. When I saw a flasher near Los Arcos, for instance, it was late in the afternoon and official places were closed. As I was leaving the next morning, I was talking with a guy cleaning the streets and I told him what had happened. I later learned, when I arrived in Viana later that day, that the grises (national police) were out looking for the guy I had described to the street cleaner. In general, I would say that "Spain" takes these things very seriously, and I encourage anyone who has this kind of incident to report it. Reporting and making noise about it is the only way that the news will get to the authorities.

I am sorry this happened to you, periperi, but I think the best thing we can do is to encourage others to make reports to as many officials as possible.

 

[oursonpolaire]

Periperi's account is serious, and should be brought to the attention of Portuguese Tourism authorities. While they will unlikely be able to do much about the specifics, they can alert the local police to keep an eye out, and possibly devise reporting procedures so that pilgrims reporting incidents can do so easily. Perhaps a dedicated number answered by police capable of responding in common tourist languages, such as available in Spain and France??

On my 2007 Camino, I came across a gang of Guardia Civil on bicycles zooming around the forest between Atapuerca and San Juan de Ortega, and one of them told me that there had been a report of a desperado of some sort preying on pilgrims and they were responding to it. They had a look of seriousness about them, and appeared to be about their job with purpose.

 

[Via Lusitana]

Hello Periperi,

I am a member of Via Lusitana a Portuguese pilgrims association based in Lisbon and was very sad to read your account.

We will get in touch with the local authorities in São Pedro de Rates as well as in Valença to let them know of these occurrences.I will also try and find out about the hospitaleiro in Rubiães.

Our association works mainly the Camino south of Porto but we are only too willing to help all pilgrims along the way and make sure that it is safe for all.

I take this opportunity to ask anyone that might have had any problems along the way to let us know and we will try and help any way we can.

I certainly hope this does not discourage others to walk the Portuguese Camino as it is a beautiful and full of history and the Portuguese are known for their friendliness and hospitality.

Bom Caminho to all!!

Via Lusitana
http://www.vialusitana.com

 

[elzi]

Hi, I was interested and saddened to read this.

I will be honest though and say that I also found the Portugese part of this route quite uncomfortable as a woman. In general though I found quite a lot of respect whilst walking during the day, dressed in hiking gear clearly as a pilgrim, but was uncomfortable generally in the evenings whilst looking more like a tourist.

The only problem I seriously encountered was in Valenca where I was hassled and grabbed by a man in the street near the albergue but was able to get away. I would like to add though that the firemen running the albergue were very polite and extremely helpful.

I'm not sure this is a camino issue. Having also visited Portugal as a tourist I would say that travelling alone as a young woman there is not a comfortable experience, there is simply a different attitude to women travellers than you might experience in more northern european countries.

The quieter camino routes have both benefits and negatives crime-wise, there are less people around so no safety in numbers on the other hand less pilgrims means less crims out looking for pilgrims to target.

 

[periperi]

Laurie's post seems to confirm what I was worrying about- that the authorities covering the main routes are more interested in dealing with these issues.

Thanks vialusitania for raising the issue in whatever capacity you have. I have tried to bring this directly to the attention of the Portuguese tourist board but the email address on their website yields only undeliverable messages....!

Elzi- that's worrying- it sounds like Valenca is a hotspot (a local woman who saved my friends said "everyone knows not to come to this part of town", but we'd dismissed that as Portuguese people generally being a bit scaredy-cat!). When I've been there the firemen haven't had anything to do with the albergue, but they are close enough that it's felt a bit more safe. I've not spoken to them in the past, but I think if I was going through again I'd inflict my Portuguese on them!

My experience, though, was that although travelling alone in Portugal can be scary (about as scary as walking around my area of South London, mind!) peregrina status didn't translate into respect/safety. Young people seemed more enlightened, but older people don't expect you to know enough Portugueuse to understand what they are saying about you- and it's some of the most disgusting language I've ever heard...

 

[hel&scott]

May well be a cultural issue as even as an 'old bird' I've had similar experiences in Portugal and nothing to do with the camino. But not enough to put me off this route. Hopefully the cold and rain will put the flashers off on our upcoming trip.

Oddly too when doing web research for the trip an alarming number of Portuguese sites had porn links or graphic pics on them... while not a prude, it’s not what I expect to see!

 

[Len Hellenberg]

To Via Lusitana
Hello!
I am a 69 year old man from Sweden who walked from Lissabon to Fatima in October 2010. The Camino wasn´t safe for me! On Tuesday the 12th of October around 11.00 I walked on the paved road about one kilometer from Reguengo ( coming from Azambuja). A car suddenly stopped and a man jumped out and waved with a knife and demanded all my money. Fortunately I had my money on four different places and he only got hold of one small wallet with 40 or maybe 60 Euro in. He disappered very fast from the place, I am sure that it was more people in the car, they were probably afraid that a car should arrive and notice the robbery. However it was not a nice experience. It made me feel unsafe walking the rest of the way to Fatima alone. I didn´t report the robbery to the police since I don´t speak Portugues. Since you wanted to know about crimes on the Camino, this was my story. Earlier I have walked from Tui to Santiago and Via Francigena to Rome without any problems with safety.
Kindest regards
Len

 

[Via Lusitana]

Hello Len,

We are very sad to read about your bad experience. We are going to contact Guarda Nacional Republicana in Azambuja so that at least have a report of the occurrence, although it will not do any good to you right now.

With this we hope to call to the attention of local authorities of this potential problem. We will also explain about the Camino and its pilgrims (giving them maps of the route).

Unfortunately there is not much we can do for you right now, however, we do have a cellular phone number available for pilgrims for this and other situations and will try to help in any way we can.

S.O.S Peregrinos: (+351) 915 595 213

You can also go to our website where we have our email contacts for various languages.

http://www.vialusitana.com

Thank you for sharing this information with us.
Regards,
Via Lusitana

 

[Finisterre]

Over three visits the most unsafe thing I met was a dog

 

[Caminando]

Via Lusitana has provided excellent support here, with follow up action.

 

[Finisterre]

But true.

 

[Caminando]

But true.

I'm sure it's true, Fin. I have just finished the Cam. Port; I had no hassle at all, not even a dog. But to highlight that I felt would tend to diminish the real problems described above.

If the problems were simply imaginings without foundation, then I wouldn't pay much attention. There's another account somewhere here of a flasher. You and I would laugh at this and apply a good dose of stick to the offending part.

However, others get panicky. And the responses of police and hosps were worrying.



'

 

[Finisterre]

yes you are correct, the unpleasantness for those involved should not be diminished, I posted as a reassurance for those intimidated by the subject matter really.

When I was last out there I think I may have heard of something similar in Pont de Lima but it might have been the same incident, it is difficult to know.

I did meet quite a few women who were travelling alone and they mentioned no difficulties. I have a friendly face, people talk to me, I think I would have heard. I did hear of a couple of walking romances that had ended awkwardly. Which is kind of unsurprising.

 

[Caminando]

I posted as a reassurance for those intimidated by the subject matter really.

Good point.

 

[Beverley]

Hi all, I have heard stories about safety or not somuch on the Caminos but until the Forum I really didn't get it. I did have a flasher experience one morning at about 6:30 in Villar de Mazarife in Spain. The guy was in his own doorway and popped back into his house when I pointed at him and laughed, how dumb can he be! I know you should never aggrevate people like that but I couldn't resist.
So my sorrow goes out to all those who have had bad experiences but like people say, don't let it stop you from having a wonderful experience and trip. Flashers are notoriously harmless and do as our Northern European friend said, place your cash in several places. If you have to, give them something, it is only money. :|

 

[hel&scott]

...don't let it stop you from having a wonderful experience and trip... :|

Well said Beverley, if we let fear put us off we'd never step outside of our own door step, and what a lot we would miss.

Our trip on the Caminho Portugués was as un-eventful crime wise as all the others we have been on - a bit hair raising on some of the road sections but we managed not to get run over by trucks and despite the rain had a great time.

 

[albergue_de_rates]

Hi peregrinos,

I belong to Albergue de Peregrinos São Pedro de Rates and We are very sad to know that safety of the Camino Portugués could be a topic. Portugal is a safe country to travel but as every places you have to be aware of danger.

Still this problem with "flasher" is something that concerns us very much, we manage to have a GNR (Guarda NAcional Republicana) patrol car, passing on the camino during their journey. But as you know peregrinos walk from sunrise to sunset.

We ask you if this appends again to anyone, when you arrive to São Pedro de Rates Albergue please tell this to the Hospitaleiro and he/she will phone to GNR and make a complain.

At this time they have a suspect because of the descriptions made by the peregrinas.

You could find more information on the camino Portugues:
http://www.alberguederates.com/index_EN.html

Ultreia
Pedro Casanova

 

[daisy]

Just back from walking Porto to Santiago, and saw a young man flasher near Pedreira, south of Valenca. A restaurant in Tuido called the police for me, and they drove to the place to look, but didn't seem concerned enough to make a report (may have been difficult because no common language). Other pilgrims coming afterwards saw no-one. A pity this situation can't be cleared up, as it doesn't make for peace of mind for those of us walking alone.

 

[lennoc]

I must admit I'm a little concerned at some of these reports. I'm planing to walk alone from Porto in August of this year. To be honest when I came up with the idea I didn't even think about it possibly not being safe.

1. Any suggestions on what I can do to minimise my chance of having problems? I'll definitely be not keeping all my money in one place.

2. I read somewhere about dressing modestly. Would knee length shorts count as modest in that part of the world? My normal hiking gear would be knee length pants and a t-shirt.

3. A few sites make mention of trying to keep other people in sight. Will it be likely that there'll be enough others walking at that time of year that I'll be able to have other people in the vicinity?

I'm really looking forward to the Camino and I'm not letting fear of being accosted put me off but I would like to be sensible about doing what I can to minimise the chances of unpleasant (or worse) experiences.

 

[periperi]

hi there

I'd not been aware of theft of money being an issue. But portugal has got a lot poorer since I was there- that makes sense.

dress doesn't make a difference; I'm not particularly attractive and dress modestly (long trousers, longish shirts and hair covered). (but since I originally posted, I've been sexually assaulted in London, again, by a chap who happens to be Portuguese. maybe it's me )

there aren't floods of people on the portugues (as I understand happens on other routes, particularly in the last sections), but if you want to travel with others, you will easily hook up with people at the albergues.

And all this said, I'm now planning a (little) caminho for September. The camino is a journey of life- bad stuff will happen.

 

[onancyo]

Thanks, Periperi, for your comments, which helped calm me, a likewise-not-particularly-attractive woman (who happens to be in her early 50s).

I have wanted to do the walk since I first learned of it 20 years ago, finally have a chance to do so this year and have been planning on the Portuguese route for its less-crowded nature and roughly-2-week span, but have been having serious doubts because of its less-crowded nature (oh irony). What do you advise?

Oh, and I plan to travel mid-June, which I suspect is high season?

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Hola. Pereperi hasn't been here for a while so I'll respond and I'm sure others will too. First fortunately the incidents referred to are very isolated. Second although the Camino Portuguese is not quite so busy as the Camino Frances - it is still popular and numbers have been growing considerably in recent years. When you wish to go you there will definitely be many other pilgrims around and inevitably you will meet other people when you can choose to walk with one or more people if you wish.

Buen Camino

John