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Sant'Iago who??

sillydoll

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2002 CF: 2004 from Paris: 2006 VF: 2007 CF: 2009 Aragones, Ingles, Finisterre: 2011 X 2 on CF: 2013 'Caracoles': 2014 CF and Ingles 'Caracoles":2015 Logrono-Burgos (Hospitalero San Anton): 2016 La Douay to Aosta/San Gimignano to Rome:
#1
St. James miraculously appeared and guided the conquistadores to victory, to the cry of "A por Santiago
Its amazing how Jacob the fisherman evolved into the archetypal hero of Western culture. From Sant’ Iago Matamoros to Sant’ Iago Mataespañois to Sant’ Iago Mataindios – everyone wanted him as their hero!
In Mexico City there is a carving from the altarpiece of the Church of Santiago Tlatelolco showing him as Santiago Mataindios - the Indian-slayer.
And although Christianity and the Catholic religion were taken to the Americas by the Spaniards and when Mexico fought to obtain its independence from Spain in 1810, it used as its flag the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe and Sant’ Iago was exalted as Santiago Mataespañois - the slayer of Spaniards!!

There is a mid-19thC silver statue of Santiago Mataespañois in the Museum of Pilgrimages in Santiago de Compostela.

http://www.aug.edu/augusta/iconography/ ... tiago.html

and another one – scroll down to under Ano 1998 - (as well as pictures of items from the museum) here:

http://www.mdperegrinacions.com/paxinas/historia.html

You can see the altarpiece of Santiago Mataindios here (click on the photo to enlarge it)

http://instructional1.calstatela.edu/be ... 00004.html

You can see paintings of Santiago Matamoros and Mataindios together here:

http://www.huancainos.com/literatura/babelandes.htm

In Peru, during an indigenous uprising in 19th-century they adopted Santiago as their champion, using the "Matamoros" iconography of “Santiago Mataespañois” that in Peru had come to be associated with a pre-Columbian deity who drove out evil forces.
Some of Peru’s most interesting (and most frequent) festivals are found in the Mantaro Valley. During the Festival de Apóstol Santiago on July 25, villagers throughout the Mantaro Valley brand their livestock amid much dancing and drinking of chicha, or fermented corn beer. Though Christian on the surface, this pre-Hispanic ritual invokes the protection of Andean deities.
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Anonymous

Guest
#2
Sil, it's very interesting to read up about how the name/symbol of Santiago has been used through the years for so many causes. Just a few days ago I heard a couple of new ones: "Santiago matarojos" & "Santiago matamasones," apparently used during the Spanish Civil War. What next? Best, xm 8)
 

sillydoll

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2002 CF: 2004 from Paris: 2006 VF: 2007 CF: 2009 Aragones, Ingles, Finisterre: 2011 X 2 on CF: 2013 'Caracoles': 2014 CF and Ingles 'Caracoles":2015 Logrono-Burgos (Hospitalero San Anton): 2016 La Douay to Aosta/San Gimignano to Rome:
#3
Santiago matamasones??

Is that Santiago killer of Masons??
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#4
U got it, Sil!

I had never heard of either one of those two terms prior to a couple of days ago.

So, we can say that the symbol of Santiago has historically been utilized as killer of:

Moors,
Indians,
Spaniards,
Reds, and
Masons :!:

I believe that in oder to understand this, one has to place onself in the particular historic moment in which the term was used. It's pretty hard to comprehend an event that happened over five centuries ago from today's vantage point. Not impossible, just hard, takes documenting oneself. There's certainly plenty of lit/documentation on the subject.

Who knows, there may be other names coming.

I wonder if there are other religious figures that have been used in the same way?

BTW, if u like history u may enjoy reading, "Ines of my soul." It was up to recently number one bestseller in Spanish speaking countries, Spain included, of course.

Best, xm
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#5
Impressive Spanish links with great pics + Galician, English, & Spanish languages texts. Thanks, Sil. The subject of the Conquista of the New World, as those others that have to do with civilizations imposing themselves on others, is so complex. Even today, specifically on the Spanish Conquista, there r many pro/contra factors, factions, historic interpretations, and revisions. I just keep on reading, though the more I do the less I know :lol: Best. xm 8)



"Estos hermanos evangelistas y protestantes nos estan volviendo locos a todos, las comunidades campesinas estan siendo invadidas, nos persiguen para hablarnos y convencernos del fin del mundo, de la venida de cristos en revistas de colores, nos prohiben el licor y las fiestas, nos han hecho quemar los vestidos y los instrumentos hace decadas con el cuento del progreso y de las ONGs, ya nadie se acuerda de las canciones, nos estan confundiendo a nuestros hijos, dejennos en paz, ya hemos sufrido tanto para ser lo que somos, para creer en lo que creemos , que se vayan todos..." (Mariano, anciano poblador de Taucca, Pisac- 2002)
 

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sillydoll

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2002 CF: 2004 from Paris: 2006 VF: 2007 CF: 2009 Aragones, Ingles, Finisterre: 2011 X 2 on CF: 2013 'Caracoles': 2014 CF and Ingles 'Caracoles":2015 Logrono-Burgos (Hospitalero San Anton): 2016 La Douay to Aosta/San Gimignano to Rome:
#6
Santiago Matamasones - How the wheel turns.

Conspiracy Theory!!

"The Masons and Santiago"
Now, they say that the church of Santa Maria de Eunate might have been a Templar church? OK.
And, they say that the Freemasons are a left over of the Templars? Perhaps.
Those of you who have seen the church Santa Maria de Eunate might have noticed a connextion?
I'm talking about the Freemason signs carved into the walls.
Have a look here.

http://peregrinations.kenyon.edu/vol2-1 ... unate.html

And, there's another Freemason sign in a very prominent place on the camino. I'll give you a clue, it can also be found on the back of the $1 bill.

Not sure what it is? Have a look in the photo album. There is a picture of the symbol on the back of the $1 bill and the same symbol in Santiago.

(No prizes for finding the mystery symbol!)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#8
My assumption [/b]is that, as mentioned, the term "Santiago matamasones," may have been used during the Spanish Civil War, 1936-1939, by the Franco regime, as well as "Santiago matarojos, " though I had never heard of it until recently. I asked my source for info and was told that there wasn't much available. I think what's happening is that this person is in the process of compiling info for the purpose of publishing.

As we know, all kinds of atrocities were comitted during that very dark period in Spanish history, in which two million people r believed to have died. Depending on who u may talk to, or what u read, one side was worst than the other; I believe both factions were similarly cruel. That's the way of war, perhaps more extreme in civil wars, if such a thing could be poss, the US and English Civil Wars may be good examples.

I also assume that the term may have been used by pro-Church parties, in Spain, and that the Masons may have suffered persecution, then.

I don't think that many people in Spain are aware of the (poss., to some people, definitely to others) link between the Templar Knights & the Freemasons.

Best,

xm 8)
 
#9
Franco invoked St James as patron saint of Spain, on the side of Church and State against the enemies of Church and State: republicans, atheists, liberals, and anyone else he disagreed with. Hence 'matarojos' and, as he regarded Freemasons as enemies of the Church too, 'matamasones'. This was all part of what was known as nacionalcatolicismo, in which Franco assumed the mantle of the Catholic Monarchs, who founded the Spanish Inquisition to rid Spain of Protestants, Jews, Muslims, and anyone else they disagreed with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacionalcatolicismo though the Spanish page http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacionalcatolicismo is much more informative.

This linking of Church and State in turn led to strong anticlericalism in his opponents on the political left, and in the immediate post-Franco years pilgrims were sometimes subjected to verbal abuse: pilgrim = Church = Franco = bad. As Spain has become more secular, the power of the Church has declined, and memories of the Franco years have faded, this anticlericalism has faded too, though the whole issue is still a sensitive one in some quarters. Spain has still not exorcised all these ghosts.

However, don't confuse (stone)masons with Freemasons. Freemasons use some symbolism from medieval masons, but medieval masons' marks have nothing to do with Freemasonry. See Alison Stones' excellent website on medieval architecture for some masons' marks in Chartres cathedral.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#10
...the Franco years...sensitive one in some quarters. Spain has still not exorcised all these ghosts.
So true. I'd say in MOST quarters...

However, don't confuse (stone)masons with Freemasons. Freemasons use some symbolism from medieval masons, but medieval masons' marks have nothing to do with Freemasonry...
Ah, I thought the ones were descendants of the other :? :!:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#12
Architecture on the Pilgrimage Road - Eunate
IMAGES OF MEDIEVAL ART AND ARCHITECTURE
FRANCE: CHARTRES (CATHEDRAL OF NOTRE-DAME)
I've seen these signs at Chartres, Eunate, + other places along the Caminos, particularly the CF... Best, xm 8)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#13
This is from the friend I had refered to previously:

"...e incluso matamasones, son anecdotas de la vida cotidiana aún un poco tabús. Me contaba ... del caso de un matalenins, al que al moro le esculpieron con gorro ruso y estrella de cinco puntas. Cosas de la España profunda y sin desenterrar".
 

sillydoll

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2002 CF: 2004 from Paris: 2006 VF: 2007 CF: 2009 Aragones, Ingles, Finisterre: 2011 X 2 on CF: 2013 'Caracoles': 2014 CF and Ingles 'Caracoles":2015 Logrono-Burgos (Hospitalero San Anton): 2016 La Douay to Aosta/San Gimignano to Rome:
#14
Freemasons

Spoil sports!
I'm no Dan Brown but I thought I'd set you a little symbol hunt! Did you find the mystery symbol?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#16
Sounds like this year we need a Santiago Matabedusbugus ..... or, more properly, Santiago MataCimexlectularius ?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#18
well, yes, freemasons claim to inherit traditions of masonic guilds
Diff entities share the claim, as well as with the connection with the Templarios, some agree, others don't. Hmm... xm 8)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#20
I'm no Dan Brown but...
I thought "Da Vinci Code" was a good story, I certainly didn't know a couple of things mentioned in it, but literature-wise it read to me more like a long newspaper article than "good" lit (whatever that may be). The movie was awful... Best, xm 8)
 


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