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Santo Domingo de la Calzada - plenary indulgence for next 7 years

2020 Camino Guides

Bradypus

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
The Pope has declared that those who visit the tomb of Santo Domingo de la Calzada during the next 7 years will receive a plenary indulgence if they also fulfil the usual conditions of making a sacramental confession, receiving communion and praying for the Pope's intentions. An extension to the Jubilee year events for the saint.

 

alhartman

346 joyful days in Spain and France since 2005
Camino(s) past & future
Hope so!
In my naivety before my first Camino, I thought the Compostela WAS a plenary indulgence!! Which also put a stop to my plan to sell it afterwards on eBay-- as a nod to Martin Luther "95 Theses" (1517)--and to help fund my walk.
Of course my second Camino from LePuy was instigated by a French pelerin who told me LePuy was the site of the Holy Prepuce!!
 

Bradypus

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
d by a French pelerin who told me LePuy was the site of the Holy Prepuce!!
Also claimed to have been in Santiago amongst many other places. Joining the dots between all the places which have claimed possession over the years might make an interestingly themed pilgrimage route :cool:

 

Tincatinker

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Lots ;0)
And of course that urban myth that there are enough fragments of the true cross to build an exact scale replica of the Ark found support when it was established that most saints had 20 fingers and most apostles at least two skulls.

There's a stone in my garden that I talk to when I want to. It isn't Earth, it doesn't even symbolise Earth. It isn't holy, or sacred. It doesn't have any magical powers. It won't grant wishes or offer guidance but it helps me focus my thoughts. Anyone who wants to visit is welcome. There are no prizes.

Santo Domingo, the road builder. Now there was a good guy. I bump fist with him every time I pass that statue down by the river and I offer up thanks to that builder of bridges at his tomb on my way. I guess I still wont get any plenary indulgence but I feel pretty indulged anyways ;)
 

henrythedog

Loved and fed by David
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2017, 2018, 2019, Ingles 2018, (Madrid 2019 partial - retired hurt!) (more planned)
And of course that urban myth that there are enough fragments of the true cross to build an exact scale replica of the Ark found support when it was established that most saints had 20 fingers and most apostles at least two skulls.

There's a stone in my garden that I talk to when I want to. It isn't Earth, it doesn't even symbolise Earth. It isn't holy, or sacred. It doesn't have any magical powers. It won't grant wishes or offer guidance but it helps me focus my thoughts. Anyone who wants to visit is welcome. There are no prizes.

Santo Domingo, the road builder. Now there was a good guy. I bump fist with him every time I pass that statue down by the river and I offer up thanks to that builder of bridges at his tomb on my way. I guess I still wont get any plenary indulgence but I feel pretty indulged anyways ;)
In the back streets of Bethlehem I could have bought a complete set of Joseph’s chisels for a knock-down price and hundreds of original crowns of thorns. I actually brought one back for my mother but found it impossible to do what she suggested with it.

My best souvenir of the holy (to some) land were some olives from a 1000+ year old tree in the garden of gesthemene, so possibly only a couple of generations removed from the time of the New Testament. They germinated.

The good thing about rocks is they accept you as you are and rarely criticise. They make ents appear frivolous.
 
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henrythedog

Loved and fed by David
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2017, 2018, 2019, Ingles 2018, (Madrid 2019 partial - retired hurt!) (more planned)
The Pope has declared that those who visit the tomb of Santo Domingo de la Calzada during the next 7 years will receive a plenary indulgence if they also fulfil the usual conditions of making a sacramental confession, receiving communion and praying for the Pope's intentions. An extension to the Jubilee year events for the saint.

Does this require one to be Catholic? If not, is the indulgence purported to be of any benefit to non-catholics?
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
I'm surprised to read so often about yet another jubilee year or jubilee event combined with plenary indulgence offers and wondered whether I'm just paying more attention to it or whether the Pope is granting them more frequently. Apparently, they made a return with Pope John Paul II and then increased under Pope Benedict (New York Times, Indulgences return ... ).
 
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mspath

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Camino(s) past & future
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Is the tomb in Sto. Domingo del Calzada?
Yes Annie it is as well as the continuing spirit of the roosters. The cathedral where St Dominic is buried is also famous for a Gothic chicken coop! In this colorful cage within the sanctuary a live cock and hen are kept in memory of a local legend involving a pilgrim and an innkeeper’s daughter. The birds are changed periodically; hearing them crow is said to bring pilgrims good luck.

In addition to the historic coop within the cathedral over time chickens have become THE symbol of the town. In the 12th century the local confraternity was formed to help and host pilgrims as they still do today. Recently this confraternity has opened a splendid new albergue adjacent to their medieval headquarters. In the common back garden is a new contemporary chicken coop filled with the future 'church coop choir'; before dawn each morning their lively chorus announces another new day to all !

Read more re this legend in
 
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Camino(s) past & future
CF 2006,08,09,11,12(2),13(2),14,16(2),18(2) Aragones 11,12,VDLP 11,13,Lourdes 12,Malaga 16,Port 06
Yes Annie it is as well as the continuing spirit of the roosters. The cathedral where St Dominic is buried is also famous for a Gothic chicken coop! In this colorful cage within the sanctuary a live cock and hen are kept in memory of a local legend involving a pilgrim and an innkeeper’s daughter. The birds are changed periodically; hearing them crow is said to bring pilgrims good luck.
Read more re this legend in
I've seen the chickens, but I guess I didn't spend enough time inside to see the tomb.
Thanks!
 

mspath

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I'd pay good money for a comprehensive guide to the Camino's relics (claimed relics?) but know of none.
rappahannock_rev,
You might prepare your own guide by researching the various citations within a contemporary copy of the famed Codex Calixtinus.
Book V. A Guide for the Traveller, Iter pro peregrinis ad Compostellam
"is a wealth of practical advice for pilgrims, informing them where they should stop, relics they should venerate..."
Read more here
See also

In Book V especialy read the chapter VIII, saints tombs to be visited

See also the sources cited here


Happy research/reading and Buen camino

.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
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Does this require one to be Catholic?
That can only be answered on a case-by-case basis, but in any event it requires belief in the Real Presence of Christ in Holy Eucharist, and to have made honest Confession sufficient for a state of sufficient Sacramental Grace which is itself sealed by the Eucharistic Communion, so normally only those belonging to Churches recognised as having valid Sacraments, and so principally the Catholic & Eastern Orthodox. With case-by-case individual exceptions.

Whether non-Catholics / non-Orthodox baptised Christians may make Confession or not will be a matter of both individual circumstances and of what norms will have been established by the Bishop of Calahorra and La Calzada-Logroño or the Holy Father within the purposes of the indulgence. Valid Baptism and sincere belief in the Real Presence of Christ in Holy Eucharist and valid Sacramental Confession are always however the conditiones sine qua non.

One baptised who does believe in the Real Presence could I suppose, when passing through Logroño, ask at the Episcopal offices there if they might be permitted to make Confession for the purposes of that indulgence ? Pilgrims to Santiago are in a bit of a special circumstance in this regard.

On a more practical note, I'd say that charging visitors to the Cathedral an entry fee outside of Mass might be incompatible with this indulgence.

If not, is the indulgence purported to be of any benefit to non-catholics?
As a potential means or step towards conversion to the Catholic Faith, certainly !!

Or a Catholic could ask God for the indulgence to benefit a deceased person, and that person need not be a Catholic.

.... but you'd probably want to see a specifically Catholic forum for more discussion and explanation of this, beyond just the "basics" of it insofar as they are of direct concern to pilgrims on the Camino. And this is a topic that can be divisive even among Catholics, and so while I have strived to remain factual and practical, it would be best to tread with care around it.
 

Kathar1na

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Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
The ever popular entrance fee issue ... I don’t even remember whether we paid an entrance fee or not in the Cathedral of Santo Domingo de la Calzada. I clearly remember however that there is a kind of side chapel with a separate entrance where the local old ladies went and where a priest was present, and I checked their website just now: Mass is usually in the space that is called Nuestra Señora de la Plaza, and only on Saturday evenings, Sundays and feast days in the main nave when the cathedral is closed to other visitors anyway.

And as to visiting the tomb of the saint which is massive and difficult to overlook ... I guess the whole cathedral is regarded as his tomb. The perception of faith these days is not the same as in the Middle Ages where seeing and touching and being in the close vicinity of material remains was so important that people travelled long distances.

Their Jubilee Year at the occasion of the 1000th anniversary of the birthday of the saint including the granting of plenary indulgences started on 25 April 2019 and has just ended on 12 January 2020, and my guess is that the whole thing went straight over the heads of the majority of camino pilgrims and that it is more important for the local parishes. Jubilee Years are of course also a great reason for additional cultural and other events that promote tourism and attract visitors in general.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
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The perception of faith these days is not the same as in the Middle Ages where seeing and touching and being in the close vicinity of material remains was so important that people travelled long distances.
So at each Mass at every Catholic church then, given that all altars are built upon their particular reliquaries ...

As for long distances ...

20 million pilgrims/year – Our Lady of Guadalupe, Mexico

6 million pilgrims – Western Wall, Jerusalem

4-5 million pilgrims – Fatima

4 million pilgrims – Lourdes

4 million pilgrims – Rome

1 million pilgrims – World Youth Day

1 million pilgrims – La Morenata (Black Madonna) Shrine Montserrat

1 million pilgrims – El Rocio , Cadiz

1 million pilgrims – Church of the Holy Sepulchre , Jerusalem

etc etc

7 of the above are on the Camino de Santiago and/or Way to Rome and/or Way to Jerusalem.

So I'd say our perceptions have not changed that much, nor our desire to travel long distances to go and see and touch.
 

Kathar1na

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7 of the above are on the Camino de Santiago and/or Way to Rome and/or Way to Jerusalem. So I'd say our perceptions have not changed that much, nor our desire to travel long distances to go and see and touch.
The discussion can obviously wander in all directions but 5 of the destinations in the list are Marian destinations so no material remains there while my comments referred to a person who is in fact or is believed to be (I didn't check) buried in the tomb inside the cathedral.

And you couldn't get a plenary indulgence anytime anywhere in Europe then but you can now. This has become a very abstract and contemporary spiritual thing. It may be interesting for some to read a 2013 article in the Atlantic about What the Pope Really Meant in His Twitter-Indulgences Announcement.
 
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JabbaPapa

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And you couldn't get a plenary indulgence anytime anywhere in Europe then but you can now.
That simply isn't true.


You can receive one any day and every day (and no more than one) by one or more of :

  • Praying the Rosary (5 decades) either
    • In a Church (or a public oratory – for example, a chapel at a hospital, prison, seminary, etc.)
    • With a religious Community
    • With a pious Association of the Faithful, or
      • Canon 299 permits “private Associations of the Faithful” merely by agreement among members, needing no ecclesial knowledge or approval. It is uncertain whether these qualify as “pious Associations,” under the terminology in the Enchiridion on Indulgences, but it appears that they do indeed qualify. (Meaning, for example, your local pro-life association’s communal Rosary would suffice for a Plenary Indulgence.)
    • in a family group
    • This prayer must involve pious meditation on the corresponding mysteries.
  • Reading Sacred Scripture for 30 minutes
  • Praying the Stations of the Cross
    • Must involve physically moving from station to station (unless you are in a group and only the leader is doing that since for all to do so would be disorderly) and at least meditating on each station.
    • The stations must be legitimately erected – 14 crosses with 14 pictures or images (e.g. statues). Some argue that “legitimately erected” means blessed by the Bishop; i.e. in an official Church, which of course would make an informally erected stations in your yard not count.
  • Adoring the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament for at least 30 minutes
    • Find a Perpetual Adoration Chapel near you
    • It does not appear that the Blessed Sacrament must be exposed in the monstrance, but rather it seems that even if it is reposed in the tabernacle, this will still suffice for a plenary indulgence.
(but take note in the article of the conditions)
 
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Kathar1na

Member
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Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
Quote: And you couldn't get a plenary indulgence anytime anywhere in Europe then but you can now.​
That simply isn't true.
When I wrote "then" and "now" I meant then=Middle Ages and now=1968-2020. 😇

I've followed these discussions on the forum on and off for quite some time and I've also read the Enchiridion Indulgentiarum, probably even quoted from it :rolleyes:. And I've been thinking to myself: so what's the whole purpose of these Jubilee Years and their plenary indulgences then?

For me, the NY article provides part of the answer, and I quote: Getting Catholics back into confession, in fact, was one of the motivations for reintroducing the indulgence [Note: that is a QUOTE, no need to discuss the term "reintroducing" any further]. In a 2001 speech, Pope John Paul described the newly reborn tradition as “a happy incentive” for confession. There's also a reference to our secularized culture of pop psychology and self-help in the article. Getting the wayward sheep back into the fold is a major concern today. So now I tend to think: ok, it's their thing, let them have it and let them use it as they see fit. It's not October 1517 anymore.
 
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Kathar1na

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I don’t even remember whether we paid an entrance fee or not in the Cathedral of Santo Domingo de la Calzada
How one forgets things to which one doesn't attribute much importance :). I remember it now, we did pay an entrance fee. You can buy the tickets in a building that is separate and a bit further away from the Cathedral.

For the hurried pilgrim of today, the opening hours may pose a bit of a problem: 11:00-14:00 and 16:00-19:00 (last entrance 18:15) during the week and from 10:00 on Saturdays and Sundays. I remember that we did hang around until it opened at 10, a time when others were already just a stone's throw away from the albergue where they would be staying. 😅
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
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When I wrote "then" and "now" I meant then=Middle Ages and now=1968-2020. 😇
I somewhat doubt that the occasions for receiving indulgences were lesser in the Middle Ages when the whole scandal about them being handed out like fortune cookies erupted, than in the 20th & 21st Centuries.

For me, the NY article provides part of the answer
The fact that the article gets some central basics so wrong does not motivate me to seek therein for answers.

But this is case in point regarding my earlier comment that these questions are contentious.
 

lt56ny

Veteran Member
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As a Jewish boy from the Bronx I find alot of this interesting but I have no idea what most of it means like Plenary and Indulgence and I am having my coffee and it is too early to start looking up most of this stuff that I will forget by lunch. ;) But it is cool how much people know and it is interesting.
 

lt56ny

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So at each Mass at every Catholic church then, given that all altars are built upon their particular reliquaries ...

As for long distances ...

20 million pilgrims/year – Our Lady of Guadalupe, Mexico

6 million pilgrims – Western Wall, Jerusalem

4-5 million pilgrims – Fatima

4 million pilgrims – Lourdes

4 million pilgrims – Rome

1 million pilgrims – World Youth Day

1 million pilgrims – La Morenata (Black Madonna) Shrine Montserrat

1 million pilgrims – El Rocio , Cadiz

1 million pilgrims – Church of the Holy Sepulchre , Jerusalem

etc etc

7 of the above are on the Camino de Santiago and/or Way to Rome and/or Way to Jerusalem.

So I'd say our perceptions have not changed that much, nor our desire to travel long distances to go and see and touch.
Not to nitpick at all and hopefully this will bring some clarity about the "Our Lady of Guadalupe" pilgrimage in Mexico City. I live in Mexico and am married to a Mexican woman. She, as virtually every Mexican I know has at least one or two paintings, statues, whatever of the Virgin. As I sit here this morning in my house with my wife and a 4 of her friends. They are just yapping it up next to me, I told them that you had listed the "long distance pilgrimages" around the world. Since my knowledge of the Catholic religion is about as extensive as as the length of a sneeze, I can only assume your listings were just of places peopled traveled to and not necessarily by walking. When I showed them the list they were as I suspected very excited and proud. Mexican people are fiercely proud of their history, culture, music and well all things Mexican. When they saw you calling it "Our Lady of Guadalupe" I chuckled a little waiting to hear what my wife and her friends would say when they read this. They immediately got a little angry because she is "The VIrgin" and "My VIrgin". Most people (at least among the people I know) have an intensely personal relationship with the VIrgin. Much more so than even Jesus and probably the equal to God. Their next reaction was GRINGO, and then they said I should correct you that she is the VIrgin of Guadalupe and the Pilgrimage is celebrated on December 12th it is when the Virgin first appeared at the Basilica. This is referred to as the "Perigrinacion a la Basilica de Guadalupe" I asked them how many people attended yearly and of course they said millions. They looked it up on Spanish language websites and according to the National Geographic Spanish website and other sites in 2017 a record was set with 7,280,000 pilgrim. They tell me it is impossible to know how many people actually walk to the Basilica from near and far and how many drive or take public transportation or walk part of the way just within Mexico City. The only reason I am writing this is that they wanted everyone to know most importantly that saying "Our Lady" is not in any way the name of the Virgin. I never knew until a few years after living in Mexico how important and deeply loved and engrained the Virgin is in the daily lives of a large majority fo Mexican people. I am sure you are forgiven and will be welcomed here in Mexico if you already aren't here!!! This wasn't my idea to write. For the stability of my marriage and my personal health and safety I was compelled to say something.;):)
 

Kathar1na

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I'd pay good money for a comprehensive guide to the Camino's relics (claimed relics?) but know of none.
Surely any such list would have to start with Roncesvalles. @rappahannock_rev, if you haven't seen this yet (you read Spanish, don't you?) have a look at
 
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First one 1977 (by train)... Many since then (by foot)... Next one soon!

JabbaPapa

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Their next reaction was GRINGO, and then they said I should correct you that she is the VIrgin of Guadalupe and the Pilgrimage is celebrated on December 12th it is when the Virgin first appeared at the Basilica. This is referred to as the "Perigrinacion a la Basilica de Guadalupe" I asked them how many people attended yearly and of course they said millions. They looked it up on Spanish language websites and according to the National Geographic Spanish website and other sites in 2017 a record was set with 7,280,000 pilgrim. They tell me it is impossible to know how many people actually walk to the Basilica from near and far and how many drive or take public transportation or walk part of the way just within Mexico City.
Long distance pilgrimages do not require walking. (though it's best when they do it anyway)

The only reason I am writing this is that they wanted everyone to know most importantly that saying "Our Lady" is not in any way the name of the Virgin.
Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe,
Madrecita del Divino Niño Jesús,
ruega por nosotros Santa Madre de Dios,
para que logremos alcanzar
la Divina Misericordia
de Nuestro Señor Jesucristo.
Amen

Her blessed name is Saint Mary, the Holy Mother of God.

I never knew until a few years after living in Mexico how important and deeply loved and engrained the Virgin is in the daily lives of a large majority for Mexican people.
As she is here ... ❤
 
Camino(s) past & future
First one 1977 (by train)... Many since then (by foot)... Next one soon!
she is "The VIrgin" and "My VIrgin". Most people (at least among the people I know) have an intensely personal relationship with the VIrgin. Much more so than even Jesus and probably the equal to God.
Spent most of my teenage years (back in the '60s) living happily in the Lomas de Chapultepec -- and that was certainly the case back then! ...

Have fond and vivid memories of visiting Guadalupe. Saw people crawling on their knees to the shrine, something I've never seen done at Santiago, Lourdes, Rome, etc.
 
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Kathar1na

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The fact that the article gets some central basics so wrong does not motivate me to seek therein for answers.
I feel that I often fail in making clear what interests me: it’s what makes people “tick”, both in the distant past and now. I like to understand it. Not one person in particular but groups of persons. That’s what I found interesting about the article, it expressed that for me. It didn’t matter whether central basics were wrong or not. What mattered is what they thought, what their views are and what their past experience was that led to that thinking.
 

Bob from L.A. !

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So at each Mass at every Catholic church then, given that all altars are built upon their particular reliquaries ...

As for long distances ...

20 million pilgrims/year – Our Lady of Guadalupe, Mexico

6 million pilgrims – Western Wall, Jerusalem

4-5 million pilgrims – Fatima

4 million pilgrims – Lourdes

4 million pilgrims – Rome

1 million pilgrims – World Youth Day

1 million pilgrims – La Morenata (Black Madonna) Shrine Montserrat

1 million pilgrims – El Rocio , Cadiz
Amazing numbers and information. Thanks for posting this...
 

lt56ny

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Spent most of my teenage years (back in the '60s) living happily in the Lomas de Chapultepec -- and that was certainly the case back then! ...

Have fond and vivid memories of visiting Guadalupe. Saw people crawling on their knees to the shrine, something I've never seen done at Santiago, Lourdes, Rome, etc.
Very pretty area now. I was an English Teacher for 3 years in DF. 4 days a week I had a 7AM class in Lomas at the Rubbermaid headquarters. I used to take my full backpack on the bus at 6AM by the Chapultepec bus area. I would take a pesero to my class. It took about a week or two before someone asked me about my backpack. I told them I was going to walk on the Camino de Santiago from Le Puy to Santiago, About half my students had heard of it. I told them to train I was walking back from the office to my home which was around the corner from Metro Sevilla. Very close to Parque Chapultepec. They were amazed! But my training was also great for class we had some good lessons about health, training, history and the Camino because of this.
I think the intense and personal relationship that Mexican people have with the Virgin has been ongoing for generations and will continue for a long time to come.
 

lt56ny

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Long distance pilgrimages do not require walking. (though it's best when they do it anyway)



Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe,
Madrecita del Divino Niño Jesús,
ruega por nosotros Santa Madre de Dios,
para que logremos alcanzar
la Divina Misericordia
de Nuestro Señor Jesucristo.
Amen

Her blessed name is Saint Mary, the Holy Mother of God.



As she is here ... ❤
I have really enjoyed this thread and learned. Even the simple conversation of the name of the Virgin brings up very intense feelings, love and emotions.
 

mvanert

Active Member
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Bits and pieces - 2014, 2016, 2018 and 2020?
I have very fond memories of Santo Domingo de la Calzada, on my first camino I became very ill with food poisoning and the people of the albergue there took very kind care of me for which I will always be grateful. I will visit again this year and will seek the plenary indulgence.
 
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CF May/June (2020) Logrono to ? (Delayed)
I’ve been to SD de la C once, on a driving holiday, (It’s got a lovely Paradore by the church) but this time I’ll be walking and will make a point of feeding the chicken. ( I jest, but I know the story behind it).

my only indulgence will be the food and wine along the route, and no Paradore this time either.......
 
In the back streets of Bethlehem I could have bought a complete set of Joseph’s chisels for a knock-down price and hundreds of original crowns of thorns. I actually brought one back for my mother but found it impossible to do what she suggested with it.

My best souvenir of the holy (to some) land were some olives from a 1000+ year old tree in the garden of gesthemene, so possibly only a couple of generations removed from the time of the New Testament. They germinated.

The good thing about rocks is they accept you as you are and rarely criticise. They make ents appear frivolous.

Lay off the ents! WOOF!!

:) :)

The Malingerer.
 

NorthernLight

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There is a town in Portugal that lays claim to the same chicken legend...

Simultaneous miracles?
 

jpflavin1

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I somewhat doubt that the occasions for receiving indulgences were lesser in the Middle Ages when the whole scandal about them being handed out like fortune cookies erupted, than in the 20th & 21st Centuries.



The fact that the article gets some central basics so wrong does not motivate me to seek therein for answers.

But this is case in point regarding my earlier comment that these questions are contentious.
Participants in the Crusades.
 

JabbaPapa

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Participants in the Crusades.
That is both a complicated question and a simple one, from different perspectives -- and it's worth remembering that an entire Crusade was excommunicated, for the sack of Byzantium. Individual Crusaders could be too, on other occasions, for war crimes as much as for crimes against the Church.

As for the lifting of an excommunication that one could receive upon pledging to join a Crusader Army, that was not an indulgence per se, but an Act in Church Law recognising the commitment to penitential actions, and after Confession a return to Communion.

Otherwise, that indulgence was really little different in kind to the indulgence that was given, often at the very same time, for those going simply on pilgrimage to the Holy Land, and also for those staying at home and praying for the purposes of the Crusades to the Holy Land. And as always, false Confessions by those with no intention to give up their mortal sins invalidate the indulgence so that it is not received -- no difference in this for those who joined a Crusade, nor for those who go on Pilgrimage.
 

David Tallan

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There is a town in Portugal that lays claim to the same chicken legend...

Simultaneous miracles?
That would be Barcelos, on the Central Route north of Porto on the way to Santiago. The Portuguese have taken that legend and run with it, making the rooster of Barcelos a national symbol. You can find them in souvenir shops across the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooster_of_Barcelos
 

Marcus-UK

Old Git
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Ingles 2016 Camino Portuguese 2017 Considering Invierno late (2020) In lieu of VdlP (2020)
Yes Annie it is as well as the continuing spirit of the roosters. The cathedral where St Dominic is buried is also famous for a Gothic chicken coop! In this colorful cage within the sanctuary a live cock and hen are kept in memory of a local legend involving a pilgrim and an innkeeper’s daughter. The birds are changed periodically; hearing them crow is said to bring pilgrims good luck.
Is there not a similar claim about a chicken in Barcelos in Portugal? Barcelos is on the Portuguese Camino and I spent a pleasant day there and attended a Pilgrims mass there.
 

ginniek

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
frances 2017
Not to nitpick at all and hopefully this will bring some clarity about the "Our Lady of Guadalupe" pilgrimage in Mexico City. I live in Mexico and am married to a Mexican woman. She, as virtually every Mexican I know has at least one or two paintings, statues, whatever of the Virgin. As I sit here this morning in my house with my wife and a 4 of her friends. They are just yapping it up next to me, I told them that you had listed the "long distance pilgrimages" around the world. Since my knowledge of the Catholic religion is about as extensive as as the length of a sneeze, I can only assume your listings were just of places peopled traveled to and not necessarily by walking. When I showed them the list they were as I suspected very excited and proud. Mexican people are fiercely proud of their history, culture, music and well all things Mexican. When they saw you calling it "Our Lady of Guadalupe" I chuckled a little waiting to hear what my wife and her friends would say when they read this. They immediately got a little angry because she is "The VIrgin" and "My VIrgin". Most people (at least among the people I know) have an intensely personal relationship with the VIrgin. Much more so than even Jesus and probably the equal to God. Their next reaction was GRINGO, and then they said I should correct you that she is the VIrgin of Guadalupe and the Pilgrimage is celebrated on December 12th it is when the Virgin first appeared at the Basilica. This is referred to as the "Perigrinacion a la Basilica de Guadalupe" I asked them how many people attended yearly and of course they said millions. They looked it up on Spanish language websites and according to the National Geographic Spanish website and other sites in 2017 a record was set with 7,280,000 pilgrim. They tell me it is impossible to know how many people actually walk to the Basilica from near and far and how many drive or take public transportation or walk part of the way just within Mexico City. The only reason I am writing this is that they wanted everyone to know most importantly that saying "Our Lady" is not in any way the name of the Virgin. I never knew until a few years after living in Mexico how important and deeply loved and engrained the Virgin is in the daily lives of a large majority fo Mexican people. I am sure you are forgiven and will be welcomed here in Mexico if you already aren't here!!! This wasn't my idea to write. For the stability of my marriage and my personal health and safety I was compelled to say something.;):)
Actually, I was asking directions (in Spanish--I'm bilingual) to a church in a small town in Queretaro state (Mexico) a few years ago. I used the formal name of the church, Our Lady of Guadalupe ______________ (cannot remember). The helpful young women looked at each other kind of quizzically and then one of them said, "Oh, you mean La Lupe," and told me where to turn and how many blocks. Their attitude was as if they were talking about the house of a friend, who would be happy to see me. I loved it.
 

mspath

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, autumn/winter; 2004, 2005-2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015
Is there not a similar claim about a chicken in Barcelos in Portugal? Barcelos is on the Portuguese Camino and I spent a pleasant day there and attended a Pilgrims mass there.
Indeed there is. See more re the Barcelos rooster/ Galo de Barcelos in this article
 
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ginniek

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
frances 2017
In the back streets of Bethlehem I could have bought a complete set of Joseph’s chisels for a knock-down price and hundreds of original crowns of thorns. I actually brought one back for my mother but found it impossible to do what she suggested with it.

My best souvenir of the holy (to some) land were some olives from a 1000+ year old tree in the garden of gesthemene, so possibly only a couple of generations removed from the time of the New Testament. They germinated.

The good thing about rocks is they accept you as you are and rarely criticise. They make ents appear frivolous.
Have you all read the book the Relic Master by Christopher Buckley? A fairly amusing story about the cut-throat business of buying and selling "holy" relics in Europe during the Middle Ages.
 

jpflavin1

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(10,11,17), Vasco(12), Salvador(13), CP(13), CN(14), Madrid (16), Mozarabe (18), VdlP(19)
That is both a complicated question and a simple one, from different perspectives -- and it's worth remembering that an entire Crusade was excommunicated, for the sack of Byzantium. Individual Crusaders could be too, on other occasions, for war crimes as much as for crimes against the Church.

As for the lifting of an excommunication that one could receive upon pledging to join a Crusader Army, that was not an indulgence per se, but an Act in Church Law recognising the commitment to penitential actions, and after Confession a return to Communion.

Otherwise, that indulgence was really little different in kind to the indulgence that was given, often at the very same time, for those going simply on pilgrimage to the Holy Land, and also for those staying at home and praying for the purposes of the Crusades to the Holy Land. And as always, false Confessions by those with no intention to give up their mortal sins invalidate the indulgence so that it is not received -- no difference in this for those who joined a Crusade, nor for those who go on Pilgrimage.
Hmmm, my readings, if interpreted correctly, state several popes, (starting with Urban) over a few hundred years basically promised entry to heaven to anyone who undertook the Crusade to take and then retake Jerusalem. (That has to be a run-on sentence) That said, I am not an expert on the subject.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
the cut-throat business of buying and selling "holy" relics in Europe during the Middle Ages.
Some small wars were fought for possession of some of the more important ones ...
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Hmmm, my readings, if interpreted correctly, state several popes, (starting with Urban) over a few hundred years basically promised entry to heaven to anyone who undertook the Crusade to take and then retake Jerusalem. (That has to be a run-on sentence) That said, I am not an expert on the subject.
It's perfectly inaccurate ; no mortal, not a Pope, not the Church can "guarantee" heaven -- that's a story from anti-indulgences Reformation propaganda etc.

An indulgence is a remission from a temporal penalty. (so someone condemned to, say, a house arrest could make a petition to go on pilgrimage to Santiago to have that penalty lifted)

Indulgences were a lot more important before the old penalty of "minor excommunication" started being removed in the 15th Century, then abolished de facto at Trent and de jure in the 19th Century so that it no longer exists. Which may be one reason, among many, for the lessening numbers of pilgrims after the 16th Century.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
I guess what @jpflavin1 was trying to say or thinking of is this: that crusaders who die in warfare go straight to heaven, and later by extension, so do pilgrims who die during their pilgrimage. This is often alluded to in comments on the forum when posters express their condolences. All of this is a long way away from 2021 and Santo Domingo de la Calzada's plenary indulgence offer during the next 7 years.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
I guess what @jpflavin1 was trying to say or thinking of is this: that crusaders who die in warfare go straight to heaven, and later by extension, so do pilgrims who die during their pilgrimage. This is often alluded to in comments on the forum when posters express their condolences. All of this is a long way away from 2021 and Santo Domingo de la Calzada's plenary indulgence offer during the next 7 years.
You can read more about the Bull of the Crusade, which granted indulgences to those in the wars against the infidels, here in the Catholic Encyclopedia. As you will see, it is very similar to the plenary indulgence discussed in Santo Domingo de la Calzada for the next seven years. The concessions granted to those who fought were granted "provided they went to confession and received Holy Communion".
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)

CAJohn

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances Sept/Oct 2019
I love some of these saint stories, but Santo Domingo de la Calzada is one of the best. Unjustly hanging man not dying in the noose, allowing parents to come and see live son strung up and not dying, disrespectful official munching on chickens that come to life and someone being punished for being unkind to pilgrims. And live chickens in the cathedral. I am telling you. Santo Domingo de la Calzada is the man,.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2019)
Yes Annie it is as well as the continuing spirit of the roosters. The cathedral where St Dominic is buried is also famous for a Gothic chicken coop! In this colorful cage within the sanctuary a live cock and hen are kept in memory of a local legend involving a pilgrim and an innkeeper’s daughter. The birds are changed periodically; hearing them crow is said to bring pilgrims good luck.
Said chicken!
IMG_20190527_115236526.jpg
 

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