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Sarria pilgrims

2020 Camino Guides

Krissten

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (July 2018)
Frances (May 2020)
Bilbo, I understand what you mean about the Camino being devalued. I am on many travel forums and it is often recommended for being budget friendly and good for solo travelers. Both of these things are true but certainly not describing the spirit of the Camino.

I would also feel irritated (especially the part about the carbon footprint so one can carry non necessities) and judgmental at that type of thing. The Camino can still have a life changing experience- maybe they will regret not simplifying or feel the urge to return for a different type of Camino. And they can still be good people. These are the things I tell myself when judgement starts to creep into my mind.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
as for people on time constraints i think they are missing out on so much from the earlier sections ,pyranees and the messata roman road way where we saw literally no one for instance,
Absolutely. And people who start at St. Jean Pied de Port miss out on so much that people who start at Le Puy or Vezelay or one of the other much earlier starting points experience. And people who take a plane or a train to these starting points miss out on so much that is experienced by people who start at their own front door. And people who stop at Santiago de Compostela (or Finisterre or Muxia) miss out on so much that is experienced by pilgrims who turn around and walk home. But although these people are all missing out, their pilgrimages are equally valid and many find them very meaningful.
 

Bilbo

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
none in the past 1 september
i would go as far as saying that a compostela should only be issued at 100km on production of proof of disability ,or old age ect
todays attitude of getting something without putting the effort in
but thats only my opinion ,maybe have a moving walkway installed for them ,or is standing too much effort ?
 

henrythedog

Loved and fed by David
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2017, 2018, 2019, Ingles 2018, (Madrid 2019 partial - retired hurt!) (more planned)
The only Camino I concern myself with is my own. I no longer collect a compostella in Santiago as I haven’t the wall-space and St Peter is unlikely to need to see the paperwork.

Had there been a 14th century equivalent of Ryanair, pilgrims would have flown to Santiago.

Whilst I’ve walked two full CdF, several partials and two other routes - and will start again in a week’s time - I have occasionally taken a bus. That doesn’t make me a bad person.
 

SabineP

Camino = Empathy + Compassion.
Camino(s) past & future
some and then more. see my signature.
i would go as far as saying that a compostela should only be issued at 100km on production of proof of disability ,or old age ect
todays attitude of getting something without putting the effort in
but thats only my opinion ,maybe have a moving walkway installed for them ,or is standing too much effort ?
At least two weak points in your statement ( I'm not even talking about your condescending tone ).

Firstly , how disabled does someone have to be in your view? 20 percent or 45 percent? Do they have to get a certificate from their doctor or health insurance?

Not every disability is visible.
So there goes that logic!
I followed some pilgrimgroups with disabilities on the Camino through social media. Also met one group when in Santiago two years ago and they are one of the bravest souls I have ever met.


Secondly : " old age " . Have to dissapoint you there too. From what I observed after some Caminos is that especially our senior citizens are much more aware of their strength and possibilities/limits than the younger generations.
There are some senior forummembers here who will pass you by with not much effort.

Buen Camino!
 
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Bilbo

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
none in the past 1 september
im talking about the masses of people who are turning this amazing route into a non challange ,young able bodied who walk the shortest route then cant be bothered to carry their own packs ,, correct about old age though ,there was an 80 year old doing the full route,
anyway im out of this thread , leave some of you guys to gaze on while the route is rendered meaningless
 

Tia Valeria

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pt Norte/Pmtvo 2010
C. Inglés 2011
C. Primitivo '12
Norte-C. de la Reina '13
C. do Mar-C. Inglés '15
im talking about the masses of people who are turning this amazing route into a non challange ,young able bodied who walk the shortest route then cant be bothered to carry their own packs ,, correct about old age though ,there was an 80 year old doing the full route,
anyway im out of this thread , leave some of you guys to gaze on while the route is rendered meaningless
Actually IMHO the Camino is more about the spirit in which it is walked than the distance. A Camino of 100kms may be more meaningful to the pilgrim who achieves it than one of 300/600kms (or whatever) that has no significance, other than being a good long distance hike, to the person concerned. It is similar to saying that only those who walk the Frances have walked a Camino.
Many of us walk other and/or shorter Caminos and who knows what benefit another gains however they achieve their aim of reaching Santiago. Please do not categorise our chosen routes/distances as meaningless
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy
TV you're right. But some people won't listen to anything other than their own opinions. Let's leave him to smug up in his self righteous opinions and get on with walking/cycling/ catching busses according to our personal preference. And as far as I'm concerned pilgrim is as pilgrim does.
 

Cerebral Simian

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2018)
Camino Del Norte > Primitivo (2019)
I understand people being frustrated with the river of peregrinos that begins at Sarria, but there's (as always) another way to look at it.

My first Camino was in early May 2018 — Sarria to Santiago. I was 68 and simply didn't know if I would be able to do it. I'm in good shape but was wary of the challenge. I was so stoked that I came this summer with a friend and we walked the Norte from Irún, then down to Oviedo and onto Santiago, a very difficult Camino at age 69. I would not have attempted it without the Sarria experience, which whetted my appetite.

So I suspect that many of the Sarria peregrinos are in training, as I was, and will have a more intense Camino in their futures.
 

Binky

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2019
I will own up to having made similar comments - but only where I have actually experienced the "bucket list" tick pilgrims, running along with nothing but a water bottle and a walking stick. Not sure why with this extreme load she needed the sticks.
In the case of the lady you mention I have nothing but respect. Hopefully she has a great camino experience and receives the joy of walking into Santiago.:):cool:🤞
you never know if somebody has a disability and they're walking with the water bottle and a walking stick.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2006,08,09,11,12(2),13(2),14,16(2),18(2) Aragones 11,12,VDLP 11,13,Lourdes 12,Malaga 16,Port 06
One one hand, as a person with a "hidden disability" I find it annoying as hell when someone looks at me, sans backpack, and judges me as 'not a real pilgrim." How do you know WHY the lady with the daypack and walking sticks didn't recently have a hip replacement, or survive cancer and chemo, or is suffering from vertigo or some other disability that you cannot see? And honestly, why would you CARE?

On the other hand, I remember quite well feeling angry and disgusted more than once on my first Camino when I ran into pilgrims happily RUNNING down the beech forest trail into Roncesvalles, having gotten off a bus at the top, or seeing pilgrims at Gonzar with teeny tiny daypacks, and being VERY judgmental that they must be cheating.

Funny how time changes things.

Now, I can only chuckle and assume, when someone raises judgment, that the self-righteous judges are brand new pilgrims with little or no experience on the Camino.

I've come to realize the simple truth that I'm not all-knowing, and if a person IS cheating, well, they're only cheating themselves... it has nothing to do with me. ::🤷::

Has the Camino become devalued? I think yes, in the way that it is no longer primarily a pilgrimage, but rather a fad adventure to tick off having done. Every time someone posts a new movie or book or (now) video, I cringe.

I do understand Bilbo's feelings and have expressed them myself more than once. Hair dryers, make up, perfume, nylon stockings, loud late iPhone conversations, long hot showers, rude shovers and pushers- none seem to have a place on the Camino in my world. I do find those things annoying - maybe due to old age crotchetiness (is that a word?). But there's nothing we can do about it except find quieter routes with fewer people - maybe walk in off-season - and do our best not to let them get us down.

Just a year ago I was complaining, saying "I'm done with the Camino!" for all the above reasons and more. But guess what? I'm flying back in March of this coming Spring. lol! Go figure. We have short memories when it comes to people and things we love - and I love Spain, the people, and all that goes with it.

It just is what it is.
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy
I've been thinking about a new t-shirt to wear when I'm on a Camino. On the back (which you can see, I cycle my Camino now) It will have "Please pass me without saying Buen Camino" and on the front "I know it's not this way, I'm going to the railway station" Will that annoy enough people, do you think? If not please suggest something better! It seems to take very little to wind people up, after all.
 

daveag

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
May 2019
Sorry to be a late-comer to the thread. My original intent was to walk from St. Jean Pied de Port but work got in the way. For me, walking the Camino was supposed to be mind and soul-clearing as I left one job and started another. My boss needed me to hang around longer than I anticipated so I cut it to walking from Astorga. Then, my walking companion (and best friend of 30 years) had his boss pull something similar—said he needed to be in the US for Memorial Day. So all we wound up having was time to walk from Sarria. I even contemplated starting in Samos but there wasn’t the time,

No one was rude to us walking. That said, we carried our packs, stayed in albergues, and tried our best to be respectful to those who had walked longer distances.

What we did was meaningful and a feat for us. I met some amazing folks and a honored to have walked but what I did was on a different order than those who are able to give weeks or months of their time to the Camino. One day I’ll be able to. Until then, I’m cherish my experiences walking from Sarria to Santiago de Compostela and enjoy this online community.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
im talking about the masses of people who are turning this amazing route into a non challange ,young able bodied who walk the shortest route then cant be bothered to carry their own packs ,, correct about old age though ,there was an 80 year old doing the full route,
anyway im out of this thread , leave some of you guys to gaze on while the route is rendered meaningless
This is at its base a religious pilgrimage, and from that point of view it is accomplished just as much by those Catholics who travel in public transport or motor vehicles to Compostela for that religious purpose. That this particular pilgrimage is also open to non-Catholics and even for alternative reasons is a very long-standing oddity of the Way of Saint James. There's some of it on the Way to Rome, but on no other Catholic Pilgrim Way, where to do such a pilgrimage as a non-Catholic/non-Orthodox/similar (except as a prospective convert) would be generally meaningless.

That some people wish to add some extra degree of challenge to it, whether that be for religious, sports, or any other reasons is fine, but nobody should be mistaken into any belief that there might be some kind of minimum effort required for a valid pilgrimage beyond the effort to visit the tomb of the Apostle.

This is fundamentally a pilgrimage Way -- not a hiking trail (although it's that as well).

Though having said that, a tradition of the Compostela Way that it shares really only with the Jerusalem Way is that those pilgrims who walk to these pilgrimage destinations have always been respected more, for the extra devotion, than those travelling there by other means.

That the Compostela now is given only to those having walked or biked &c a minimum distance is a consequence of such a vast increase in the numbers of pilgrims that the Cathedral can quite simply not provide one to every single pilgrim to Santiago, but they have had to impose it as an arbitrary condition. Whereas previously, even someone travelling by coach or train for his pilgrimage could obtain the document, if he could show that it was for a proper religious purpose (which meant having a letter from his priest or Bishop and so on).
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
There is no such thing as a full route.
Just saying.
The "full route" is home to home the long way round via Compostela ; or in the shorter version, home to Santiago.

But the shorter routes are pilgrimages just the same !!! And all equally valid.

All things being equal, a longer Camino is "better" than a shorter one ; but all things are not equal.
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean May/June 2017. Plans to walk Porto 2020
you never know if somebody has a disability and they're walking with the water bottle and a walking stick.
I think you missed my point; those with "issues" are totally excluded. Its those "show ponies" that I am against.
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy
Ok, Saint Mike, are you going to go up to them and ask about their disability? Because I think Binky got it right. YOU don't know their circumstances. And personally, if you came up to me with a question like that, disabled or not, I would feel justified in asking you to go away in two words. The first starts with F
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but will I be fit enough for 2020?
I've been thinking about a new t-shirt to wear when I'm on a Camino. On the back (which you can see, I cycle my Camino now) It will have "Please pass me without saying Buen Camino" and on the front "I know it's not this way, I'm going to the railway station" Will that annoy enough people, do you think? If not please suggest something better! It seems to take very little to wind people up, after all.
"I'm only riding today because my bike wouldn't fit in the taxi"
 

AndrewDavOz

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2019
Ironic that the certificate mentions bicycles in “Latin”. Bicycles were not exactly an available mode of transport in ancient Rome. According to Wikipedia, the first bicycle known of was made and used in 1817. I suppose in the future they will need to find a “Latin” word for skateboards and electric bicycles.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
There are various kinds of Latin: classical Latin as written during the times of the Romans, medieval Latin (basically all documents from that time are written in Latin), then later the Latin of diplomacy and science (until German became the international language of science and now English) and New Latin, used daily by the Vatican for example who maintain a huge dictionary.

The text on the Compostela is new, it's not a reproduction and not even an adaption of a medieval text. I personally find that the (rather convoluted imho) Latin on it is a bit of a gimmick.

An electric bike is of course a birota electrica. The word electric entered the English language via Latin but not via the Latin of the old Romans. Electricus/electrica is a totally invented Latin word. Coined by William Gilbert, an English physician who published a book about magnetism around 1600. In Latin, of course.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_electricity
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
There are various kinds of Latin: classical Latin as written during the times of the Romans, medieval Latin (basically all documents from that time are written in Latin), then later the Latin of diplomacy and science (until German became the international language of science and now English) and New Latin, used daily by the Vatican for example who maintain a huge dictionary.
The Wikipedia article is not very good, and occasionally wrong.

It's not "vulgar" Latin (I prefer the phrase "colloquial Latin" personally, though really it should just be called ordinary Latin) that diverged into the Romance languages, but the Late Latin evolved into a proto-Romance state, and that's what diverged.

As for "new" and "contemporary" Latin, essentially these are the same as the Mediaeval Latin and the Church Latin, just with some extra vocabulary.

Vulgar Latin is not a particular state nor period in the language, but it was quite simply the non-literary form of the language -- if anything, the Classical Latin was a peculiar form of Latin that was artificially maintained for use by the educated classes. But there were multiple states of the Vulgar Latin that evolved throughout the Roman History, from the Kingdom of Rome via the Republic, Classical, post-Classical, and High Mediaeval periods.

Whereas the normal state of the language, including in its "non-literary" texts (ahem!), is mostly known through the texts of the Late Latin period, though a small number of texts survive from the Classical period not written in the Classical form, including one which is a memoir of a pilgrimage to the Holy Land ; Saint Jerome's Latin Bible for example is written in a mixture, depending on which text you're reading, of Late Latin and a classicised form of it.

The text on the Compostela is new, it's not a reproduction and not even an adaption of a medieval text. I personally find that the (rather convoluted imho) Latin on it is a bit of a gimmick.
Contemporary Church Latin is, indeed, sometimes a bit weird.

But no, it's not a "new" text, but it is an abridged and shorter version of an old one, as you can see from this Compostela of 2nd June 1733 :



... and this more legible one of 9th September 1777 :



The Cathedral in Santiago has been issuing Compostelas since the 14th Century, so that it is very likely indeed that the text in these 18th Century certificates was written in the 14th Century, so that yes the Latin on the modern Compostelas is basically a text written in Mediaeval Church Latin.
 
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Peregrinopaul

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
VdlP(2012) Madrid(2014)Frances(2015) VdlP(2016)
VdlP(2017)Madrid/Sanabres/Frances reverse(2018)
Fascinating, JP.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
You’re truly a mine of interesting information, @Kathar1na , thank you! 😎
Thank you, @domigee, it’s the internet that is the real mine of information, and I can often not suppress an urge to share the small treasures I have discovered. Until yesterday, I didn’t know that skateboard in Latin is a tabula subrotata, ie a slate on wheels, or a mobile home is a domuncula subrotata, ie a little house on wheels, and I had never listened to the Vatican’s weekly podcast in Latin, a 5 minutes news summary, where I actually managed to understand half a sentence here and there.

One can never know where a thread about pilgrims starting in Sarria can lead: I’m currently reading about “Figurative uses of animal names in Latin and their application to military devices” which is a thesis from 1912 with excursions to Roman and medieval times (again!), and I may then turn my attention to the topic of “How do I develop scientific names for my species” which I guess is a hot topic among budding sci-fi writers of the 21st century. And all that just because I got sidetracked when I tried to figure out why a small North American moth has the scientific name Heterocampa subrotata. 🤔🤭
 
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Bruno Bodnar

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
(2001) (2018)
“GO PLACIDLY amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself...”
 

TaraWalks

Peregrina without a skateboard
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2016 & 2018, planning for Le Puy 2019/2020ish and for some shorter Caminos stacked
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2006) Portugues(2013)
San Salvador (2017) Ingles (2019)
A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry 😕 But thank you for listening 🙂
Hi Domigee. When I was a primary school teacher there were times of in-jokes. One was about Christmas. On the first day after the Christmas break, a little boy ran breathlessly into the classroom and asked the teacher: ’Hey Miss, any word about that pair that was lookin’ fur a hoose?’
How did your friend get on with her Camino?



EDIT. I missed your response with the good news that your friend did not meet any negativity. Well, the joke is still timely, as it is always nice to hear back about the kind of questions people post prior to caminos.
 
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Stroller

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte (2015), Frances (2016)
Those making such comments as the OP suggest and have walked any camino have missed the point of the exercise.

Post Sarria was a shock but by the time I got there I could outpace many of those just starting or slow down to miss them. Simples.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2013 Camino Frances SJPP / 2014 Camino Portugues / 2015 Camino Ingles / 2015 Hospitalero Training
2016 (fall) Camino Sanabre / Hospitalero?
A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry 😕 But thank you for listening 🙂
An Ourense Pilgrim, a Ferrol Pilgrim, a Tui Pilgrim, a Sarria Pilgrim, time well spent. Ultreya.
 

Bilbo

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
none in the past 1 september
I've been thinking about a new t-shirt to wear when I'm on a Camino. On the back (which you can see, I cycle my Camino now) It will have "Please pass me without saying Buen Camino" and on the front "I know it's not this way, I'm going to the railway station" Will that annoy enough people, do you think? If not please suggest something better! It seems to take very little to wind people up, after all.
View attachment IMG_20191229_111046.jpg
how about one (this is mine i deserve it )showing the route starting from sjpdp that would definitely trigger me ,as in, been there havnt done that but bought the tshirt. :D
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy
It's a nice t-shirt. But I doubt if it would upset anyone who wasn't already a bit cross.
 

Bilbo

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
none in the past 1 september
yeh i guess ,i think the best thing with camino tshirts is that i can start random conversations when im walking here in Cornwall (drifts of topic) i love to recall my time in September ,suddenly surrounded by sheep rather than people it is still taking time to adjust
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy
You can always walk another Camino, or the Frances again. It does tend to be addictive.
 

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