Schengen and our options

[John R McLean]

I currently investigating getting a UK passport so that I can stay longer than the 90 days allowed in the Schengen Zones. (My Mother was born in England). I have received a message from IAS Immigration Advice Service, based in the UK. http://ca.iasservices.org.uk/contact-us/
Has anyone used this company? Does anyone have any information about this or any other company or lawyers that can process my application. (I am based in Canada)
Cheers!
John

 

[Jill81]

I currently investigating getting a UK passport so that I can stay longer than the 90 days allowed in the Schengen Zones. (My Mother was born in England). I have received a message from IAS Immigration Advice Service, based in the UK. http://ca.iasservices.org.uk/contact-us/
Has anyone used this company? Does anyone have any information about this or any other company or lawyers that can process my application. (I am based in Canada)
Cheers!
John

I would suggest contacting the office of the nearest British Consulate-General in Canada to determine your eligibility before engaging the services of any UK firms. There are offices in Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal.
https://www.gov.uk/world/organisations/british-consulate-general-vancouver

 

[Marcus-UK]

I currently investigating getting a UK passport so that I can stay longer than the 90 days allowed in the Schengen Zones. (My Mother was born in England). I have received a message from IAS Immigration Advice Service, based in the UK. http://ca.iasservices.org.uk/contact-us/
Has anyone used this company? Does anyone have any information about this or any other company or lawyers that can process my application. (I am based in Canada)
Cheers!
John

You can do a quick on-line check about potential British citizenship by going to:

https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen

I am UK resident but also eligible for Irish citizenship due to Irish Grandparents. I will probably be applying for this owing to the UK exiting the EU sometime after 2019.

BTW ther are quite a lot of WWW based companies who will take your Canadian Dollars to help you apply for citizenship. Some are bogus some are not! The reputable ones are those that generally have a good reputation for applying for business visas and know the system. You will pay a premium for this!

However my thoughts are if you have the time do it yourself have a go. The local consulate can advise you.

I was going to suggest that you could nip out of the Schengen area and back in again. However I think they have now closed this loophole and you are allowd 90 days in a six month period. This would have allowed you from Spain to visit Gibralter or Andora..

 

[Jill81]

Were you born before 1983? This should help you. If your circumstances are straightforward don’t waste your money on immigration firms. It is easy enough — I’ve done it myself.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-to-register-as-a-british-citizen-form-ukm

 

[John R McLean]

We’re you born before 1983? This should help you. If your circumstances are straightforward don’t waste your money on immigration firms. It is easy enough — I’ve done it myself.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-to-register-as-a-british-citizen-form-ukm

Thank you for the link. I'll work through the guide and form and see if I can make it happen from here.
Cheers!
John

 

[John R McLean]

You can do a quick on-line check about potential British citizenship by going to:

https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen

I am UK resident but also eligible for Irish citizenship due to Irish Grandparents. I will probably be applying for this owing to the UK exiting the EU sometime after 2019.

BTW ther are quite a lot of WWW based companies who will take your Canadian Dollars to help you apply for citizenship. Some are bogus some are not! The reputable ones are those that generally have a good reputation for applying for business visas and know the system. You will pay a premium for this!

However my thoughts are if you have the time do it yourself have a go. The local consulate can advise you.

I was going to suggest that you could nip out of the Schengen area and back in again. However I think they have now closed this loophole and you are allowd 90 days in a six month period. This would have allowed you from Spain to visit Gibralter or Andora..

According to the site, it says I'm indeed eligible.
Cheers!
John

 

[Deleted member 29041]

I currently investigating getting a UK passport so that I can stay longer than the 90 days allowed in the Schengen Zones.

It's a somewhat short-term solution, as Britain is leaving EU (Brexit) - albeit not until 2019. Until then, it's a good idea.

 

[t2andreo]

I do not want to throw a wet blanket on this thread, but getting a UK passport may not alleviate the Schengen "90-days in any 180-day calendar period" rule if the UK pulls out of the EU. One presumes this will also remove the UK from the Schengen free-movement zone.

I recall reading that one of the many motivation for Brexit was the uncontrolled movement of persons from all over Europe into the UK. Would this not be a case of leaping from the saucepan into the fire...? Just wondering...

This said, obtaining a passport from one of the remaining, continental Schengen countries, or possibly Ireland, might be a wiser move, if possible. Just be very careful of the income tax consequences of becoming a citizen-national of another country. One does not want to wind up paying more income tax...

This latter consideration is a concern for US citizens eligible for European passports based on ancestry. The US government has a worldwide scope for claiming income earned ANYWHERE and paying taxes. You can literally be living on the moon, and still be liable to pay US income taxes. Becoming a Euro-citizen, with a second passport, exposes you to paying the (higher) taxes of one or more European countries, if you reside there, PLUS US income taxes.

Yes, there are tax treaties between the US and every nation on earth providing for reciprocity. But. you still end up paying more in the end... This is why I have avoided pursuing the two EU national passports I am eligible for.

I hope this helps the dialog.

 

[John R McLean]

It's a somewhat short-term solution, as Britain is leaving EU (Brexit) - albeit not until 2019. Until then, it's a good idea.

Is it clear what the UK leaving the EU actually means as far as the Schengen Treaty goes? Would that not all need to be negotiated?

 

[t2andreo]

No, it is not yet clear.

I believe a European country can be in the Schengen free movement area yet not part of the EU, per se. For example, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are in the Schengen area, but NOT in the EU.

See this link for more information:

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/si...n_brochure/schengen_brochure_dr3111126_en.pdf

This says that the UK and ireland are in the EU but NOT in the Schengen free-movement zone.

Given the politics and polemics involved in the whole Brexit thing, I cannot imagine the EU being "kind and gentle" towards UK citizens. There will likely be grandfathering clauses for retirees and ex-pats who have residence in another EU country.

My conclusion, based on the above EU information, is that obtaining a UK passport may leave you wanting if Brexit succeeds. Then you will be treated like those of us in Commonwealth countries (Australia, Canada, New Zealand) or in the US. The 90-day rule would still apply.

 

[John R McLean]

No, it is not yet clear.

I believe a European country can be in the Schengen free movement area yet not part of the EU, per se. For example, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are in the Schengen area, but NOT in the EU.

See this link for more information:

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/si...n_brochure/schengen_brochure_dr3111126_en.pdf

This says that the UK and ireland are in the EU but NOT in the Schengen free-movement zone.

Given the politics and polemics involved in the whole Brexit thing, I cannot imagine the EU being "kind and gentle" towards UK citizens. There will likely be grandfathering clauses for retirees and ex-pats who have residence in another EU country.

My conclusion, based on the above EU information, is that obtaining a UK passport may leave you wanting if Brexit succeeds. Then you will be treated like those of us in Commonwealth countries (Australia, Canada, New Zealand) or in the US. The 90-day rule would still apply.

Well I guess at this point I really don't have much choice. I'll have to try to get my UK passport and just keep an eye on the ramifications of Brexit. At this point I'm subject to the 90 day limit as I'm a Canadian citizen. I have to continue with planning various route options based on 90 day limit as well whether I can surpass this limit.

 

[Kathar1na]

Is it clear what the UK leaving the EU actually means as far as the Schengen Treaty goes? Would that not all need to be negotiated?

It is futile to speculate about the future legal status of UK passport holders in relation to the Schengen treaty at this point in time. I personally wouldn't be surprised if there is no perceptible change and there will be some kind of transitional rules to preserve the status quo. It is so soon!

The only thing that seems fairly certain: If you do get a UK passport, you will cease to be a citizen of the Union on Friday, 29 March 2019, at midnight our time (23:00 London time).

Looking at your plans, will you be in EU-28 when it turns into EU-27? It will be a historic moment, no doubt.

 

[John R McLean]

It is futile to speculate about the future legal status of UK passport holders in relation to the Schengen treaty at this point in time. I personally wouldn't be surprised if there is no perceptible change and there will be some kind of transitional rules to preserve the status quo. It is so soon!

The only thing that seems fairly certain: If you do get a UK passport, you will cease to be a citizen of the Union on 29 March 2019 at midnight our time (23:00 London time).

Looking at your plans, will you be in EU-28 when it turns into EU-27? It will be a historic moment, no doubt.

I start walking on May 1st 2019. Looks like my plans will need to be fluid based on such uncertainty.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Is it clear what the UK leaving the EU actually means as far as the Schengen Treaty goes?

The following webpage certainly doesn't make it clear but it looks as though UK citizens or prospective citizens should be aware of the contents. It brings up the question of whether a non-EU Britain is a member of the EEA and, if so, will the Citizens’ Rights Directive still have to be negotiated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens'_Rights_Directive​

That page starts out with this paragraph:

The Citizens’ Rights Directive 2004/38/EC (also sometimes called the "Free Movement Directive") defines the right of free movement for citizens of the European Economic Area (EEA), which includes the member states of the European Union (EU) and the three European Free Trade Association (EFTA) members Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein. Switzerland, which is a member of EFTA but not of the EEA, is not bound by the Directive but rather has a separate bilateral agreement on free movement with the EU.​

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Just be very careful of the income tax consequences of becoming a citizen-national of another country. One does not want to wind up paying more income tax...

This latter consideration is a concern for US citizens eligible for European passports based on ancestry. The US government has a worldwide scope for claiming income earned ANYWHERE and paying taxes. You can literally be living on the moon, and still be liable to pay US income taxes. Becoming a Euro-citizen, with a second passport, exposes you to paying the (higher) taxes of one or more European countries, if you reside there, PLUS US income taxes.

This site gives an overview of how US taxes are computed for Americans working abroad:

https://www.americansabroad.org/us-taxes-abroad-for-dummies-update/​

I've read before that many of the Americans that renouce their citizenship do it, not because of the extra taxes, but because of the damned paperwork and the fines for not doing it correctly. Here's a quote from https://www.investopedia.com/articl.../why-people-renounce-their-us-citizenship.asp

The current tax laws – and the reporting, filing and tax obligations that accompany them – have made many Americans choose to renounce their citizenship, not just because of the money, but because they find the tax compliance and disclosure laws inconvenient, onerous and even unfair.​

But even renouncing US citizenship brings tax headaches:

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/17/exposing-the-hidden-tax-costs-of-renouncing-us-citizenship.html​

Here is a starting spot at the Internal Revenue Service (US federal taxes) for getting into the complexity of taxing Americans and resident aliens for their foreign income:

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/us-citizens-and-resident-aliens-abroad/
​

[Edit: I came upon an interesting situation: Suppose someone was born in the U.S. and thus a citizen but moved away early with his foreign parents. He may not even know he was an American. Decades later he comes back to the U.S. He would not have been paying taxes or even filing his forms. This could be one heck of a mess to fix.]

 

[jmcarp]

I'd sure think twice about renouncing (or otherwise possibly complicating) my citizenship status in any country wherein I am happily living for the sake of what amounts to a probable one-time extended vacation abroad. Remember, there's always next year.

 

[AlwynWellington]

Schengen Area includes Spain, France and a host of other countries, but not the UK

My evidence is that ALL travellers (including all EU citizens) arriving in Spain fron the UK show their passports at Spanish passport control.

And, sorry Tom, but your tax liabilities are dictated by relevant US (in your case) legislation and treaties and your income wherever gained, not by formal citizenship registration. And is a red herring, in my most humble undestanding, to this matter.

 

[AlwynWellington]

I'd sure think twice about renouncing (or otherwise possibly complicating) my citizenship status

No complications usually arise.

Canada, along with many other countries that have Her Majesty as Head of State, often dont require renunciation for dual, triple etc citizenship for countries within the club (British Commonwealth) and just as often other countries either.

But each case needs to be be confirmed through the relevant agency in the country you usually live in / regard as home.

 

[C clearly]

does Canada even have the same double tax/nationality thing as the USA?

No. Tax laws are quite different. And Canadians can hold multiple citizenships.

but your tax liabilities are dictated by relevant US (in your case) legislation and treaties and your income wherever gained, not by formal citizenship registration

In fact, I believe that US citizenship DOES have tax implications and serious complications in theory, even for those who have never lived there.

 

[onwayhome]

I hope your passport journey goes well John. There are news stories here of an increase in UK citizens applying for citizenship of EU countries so they can continue to have free movement or residency . As many have already posted this seems all unclear territory so far.

 

[John R McLean]

Well it appears to be a no brainer at this point. Get my UK passport and hope for the best. Keep planning with various route options and then make a decision on which way to go once the EU/UK/Brexit/Schengen mess gets cleared up. Would prefer to complete it in one long, nonstop go but if I have to adjust, then so be it.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Could be even more complicated - the Canadian wife of a British friend had to apply for citizenship first.
This involved a complicated 60-odd page form and about £2400 in fees.
Mind you, with your ancestry it might not be so bad.
On the other hand, if my fellow countrymen swallowed a decent sized jolt of commonsense, we might not be leaving at all!

 

[Glenshiro]

Schengen Area includes Spain, France and a host of other countries, but not the UK

Yes, I have to show my (UK) passport when travelling to France, Spain or any other Schengen country, but I'm just waved through and expect to be so post-Brexit (if it ever happens.)
Just to confuse matters, there is a Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland, and citizens of those countries do not have to show a passport when travelling between them.
I also have an Irish passport (thanks, Dad!) so I should be ok whatever happens.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I currently investigating getting a UK passport so that I can stay longer than the 90 days allowed in the Schengen Zones.

FYI, at the Universidad de Málaga website:

"Regulations Governing EU Citizens in Spain"​

http://www.uma.es/media/tinyimages/file/regimen-comunitarios-eng.pdf​

 

[AlwynWellington]

Could be even more complicated - the Canadian wife of a British friend had to apply for citizenship first.
This involved a complicated 60-odd page form and about £2400 in fees.

That seems extraordinary.

Would you please elaborate (show details) on how those fees were incurred? For example was an agent used?

Kia kaha (take care, be strong, get going)

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Would you please elaborate (show details) on how those fees were incurred?

I'm not the one who said that the fees were £2400 but I did find a list of fees here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...657408/Nationality-MasterFeesLeaflet_2017.pdf​

The link to that page came from here:

"How to get a British passport if you are an EU citizen – and how the rules will change after Brexit"​

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3860994/british-uk-passport-eu-citizen-brexit/​