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Schengen Visa Issues!

cookie139

New Member
Hi there!

This is 'Cookie' from India. I intend to walk the Camino Frances this September. I got my plane tickets till Paris and now am in the process of getting the Schengen Visa. Which by no means, has been fun! :(

The Spain Consulate in Mumbai, India, requires an 'invitation letter' sent by some firm/company/tourist organisation, etc. to the traveller in order to obtain a visa! How can I make this work I dont know! So anyone who is not a EU citizen and has walked the Camino, with no official 'invitation letter' or a confirmed hotel booking, Please tell me how! Would really appreciate it!
 
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To my knowledge, you do not need a Schengen Visa unless you plan on being there more than 90 days. I have been looking into this because I want to walk for 6 months next year, but am finding it impossible.

I have been on the Camino from the United States twice. I simply used a passport and did NOT get a special Visa. Unless there is some special rule for India.. I think a passport is enough?

Perhaps you could email or call the Spanish Embassy.

Address 12, Prithviraj Road
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Email emb.nuevadelhi@maec.es
 

sillydoll

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South Africans also need a Schengen Visa to visit Europe and it is getting really tough to get the Visa.
We have to provide three months bank statements (originals), proof of residence, proof of financial support - up to 9 days: minimum amount is €561,60 More than 9 days: add €62,40 per day. Medical travel insurance of at least €30 000 and proof of accommodation for the entire period or a letter from a family member (stamped by the mayors office where they live!) or from the sporting organisation, business etc that has invited you, and proof of travel arrangements - original air ticket etc.
 

cookie139

New Member
Thanks for the reply Annie.

The no "Schengen visa" applies to only citizens of USA, New Zealand and Australia. And maybe some other countries too. But for Indians we need the Schengen Visa even if we are travelling for a week! But the visa requirements are too complicated here. GIven to the fact that we need confirmed hotel booking, flight tickets and so much more. So, unless we get some official documentation from the church of St. James, it is really very difficult for people from Asia to be a part of this beautiful journey. Hope they come up with something really soon!
 

cookie139

New Member
sillydoll said:
South Africans also need a Schengen Visa to visit Europe and it is getting really tough to get the Visa.
We have to provide three months bank statements (originals), proof of residence, proof of financial support - up to 9 days: minimum amount is €561,60 More than 9 days: add €62,40 per day. Medical travel insurance of at least €30 000 and proof of accommodation for the entire period or a letter from a family member (stamped by the mayors office where they live!) or from the sporting organisation, business etc that has invited you, and proof of travel arrangements - original air ticket etc.

Hi there sillydoll :D

Yep, I guess we both are in the same dilemma! :) It's really ridiculous! Kind of takes away the excitement from the trip! The same documents you mentioned are asked even in India. However, the most difficult part of the hotel bookings, when there is no way of knowing which place one would be on a particular day! I was ideally hoping that I could show some bookings in Paris for 2 or 3 days and get the visa.. But like you mentioned, we need to show confirmed bookings for the entire period of travel.

But lets see, tomorrow am meeting a travel agent to talk about some loopholes in the system and maybe try to figure out an alternate way. If I get through, will share the info with you. :D
 
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Cookie I am really sorry for your troubles. The EU is experiencing problems with people who come to here on a holiday visa and then do not return home. I am sorry because it means that pilgrims are now facing all sorts of obstacles. I hope you find a way to resolve this.
 

cookie139

New Member
falcon269 said:
India had a bit of its own problem getting some folks to return home!! Eventually there was a sunset on empire. :D

Lol, yeah I know what you mean! But cant' blame them folks entirely. The system of migration for lucrative careers to the USA or other developed nations is very complicated to completely comprehend.

But nonetheless, the genuine tourists and pilgrims suffer from it. I hope the consulates find some alternate way of tracking people who are overstaying and make life much easier for us pilgrims! :)
 
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Pieces

Veteran Member
dont those hotel sites confirm bookings when booked.

will it work to reserve a number of hotels each for a weekX or two along the camino on hotels.com or some such, and the cancel them after the fact. Most have no cancellation fee ?
 

sillydoll

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
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Spain has tightened their visa reqirements considerably this year as Madrid is hosting the World Youth Day (acutally its a whole week) in August.
They are terrified that people will get into Spain and use it as a gateway to a wonderland of 25 other European countries! You mkight remember that 39 people from India 'vanished' after attending the last Youth Day in Australia in 2008!
Visa's are only being given to those who apply through their parish and for the period of the Youth Day festivities, and people who want to stay on afterwards - perhaps to spend a 'Day in the Dioceses' (with Spanish families) or walk a Camino - are been strictly scuitinised.
 

jl

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I sympathise with your dilemma cookie. I too am trying to research a Schengen Visa, as we are only allowed 90 days - at least we can get that much!. I am trying to plan a journey, involving a year of walking, and so well know the dilemma you are in. Yours is just a shorter time frame than mine, though it is with the same problems. Good luck. Janet
 

Canuck

Veteran wanderer
Past OR future Camino
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jl said:
I sympathise with your dilemma cookie. I too am trying to research a Schengen Visa, as we are only allowed 90 days - at least we can get that much!. I am trying to plan a journey, involving a year of walking, and so well know the dilemma you are in. Yours is just a shorter time frame than mine, though it is with the same problems. Good luck. Janet

Janet,
Good luck indeed!
I have gone that way as well and have given up. Too much trouble with all the documentation and translation requirements, plus the very high cost of the whole ordeal. In my case, to add only two months to the 90 day allowance.
Best of luck,
Jean-Marc
 

robertt

Active Member
Same with me, guys. I'd like to do a long one, but ninety days seems the limit. I've noticed that they fuss about it in Spain, but no-one seems to make an issue in France or Italy. Still, not worth the risk.

Is there a non-Schengen nation close to Camino countries where one can spend some time, rather than going all the way back to Oz?

Rob
 
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talk is that the local spanish embasy has become FOS
so they applied via the portugese embassy who were really very happy to see them
and then ducked into spain from there
obviously therell be terms and conditions
but this is a possibility ?
 

Canuck

Veteran wanderer
Past OR future Camino
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robertt said:
Is there a non-Schengen nation close to Camino countries where one can spend some time, rather than going all the way back to Oz?

Rob

Rob,
United Kingdom is the answer. That's what I am preparing to do. Three months (90 days) of winter in Spain and then a long walk (2 months) in England.

Cheers,
Jean-Marc
 

Alan Pearce

Veteran Member
I believe that after time is spent in the Schengen states that it is necessary to spend 6 months in a non-Schengen country in order to clear the slate and be able to stay for another lot of 90 days.

Alan

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D

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For citizens of the appropriate countries, you may visit the Schengen zone for 90 days in six months without a visa. So, if you stay 90 days, you will "recover" days starting on the day after your six month anniversary of arrival. You will recover January 1 on July 1, etc.

Romania and Bulgaria are outside the Schengen Zone...
 
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Canuck Land's End to John O Groats or in reverse?
 

Canuck

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Past OR future Camino
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methodist.pilgrim.98 said:
Canuck Land's End to John O Groats or in reverse?

Would be interesting but not this time.

We are rather looking at ''cherry picking'' our way.
Still looking at a series of different options i.e. Coast to Coast, Great Glen Way, Hadrian's Wall Path and visits along the way.

Suggestions???

Cheers,
Jean-Marc
 
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Canuck

I have clocked up some 1490km on the Camino but hardly walked in England. :oops:

I have a friend who did the Coast to Coast and enjoyed it very much.

My sister has walked the Pennine Way. That is serious hill walking but again she enjoyed it.

Did you pick up the two new Welsh pilgramges posted by Peter Robbins?

Pilgrims Way North Wales: across N Wales, Holywell-Bardsey, inaugural walk next month:
http://www.pilgrims-way-north-wales.org/

Two Saints Way, connecting Lichfield and Chester:
http://twosaintsway.org.uk/

I believe there is a Cistercian walk also in Wales.

The Confraternity of St Jame is a likely source of more information. office@csj.org.uk

One reason I have not walked so much is that I don't have a tent, nor any desire to walk with one. Secondly, I am aware that getting cheap accomodation in England is not always easy. I trust you have thought about the YHA, but you have to be members.

I am not sure you will be any further forward with this but others may jump in to help.
 
M

mikevasey

Guest
Canuck said:
We are rather looking at ''cherry picking'' our way.
Still looking at a series of different options i.e. Coast to Coast, Great Glen Way, Hadrian's Wall Path and visits along the way.

Suggestions???

Hi Jean-Marc

How about trying the south west coastal pathhttp://www.southwestcoastpath.comit varies in levels of hardness, you can usually get several days of an easy level before it starts kicking butt again.

In Scotland you have the West highland Wayhttp://www.west-highland-way.co.uk from the outskirts of Glasgow to Fort William, i did it in 94, the infrastructure then was 1 bothy and my tent. At Fort William you now have the connecting East Highland Way http://www.easthighlandway.com.

In my families part of the world you have the Cleveland Wayhttp://www.clevelandway.co.ukandhttp://www.nationaltrail.co.uk/clevelandway/ and back down to the southwest of England you have the new Cornish Pilgrimage route(challenge?) about 300miles long http://www.blog.robin-moore.co.uk/_attachments/3758822/THE CORNISH PILGRIMAGE.pdf andhttp://www.blog.robin-moore.co.uk, this is a charity walk which has been devised to take in many smaller pilgrimage routes in Cornwall. You have to get a pilgrims passport and obtain stamps for each section, the route is marked by the St Pirans scallop shell, and you can also buy the St Pirans scallop shell to go around your neck, dont know where they get the ideas from.


Mike
 

Canuck

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@ methodist.pilgrim.98
@ mike

Thanks a lot guys for all your interesting suggestions.

The Cleveland Way and the Pennine Way are on my list of choice.

I will start by walking from Prague to Strasbourg via Germany (800 km), starting next week, following which I'll get into serious planning for winter in Spain and spring in the UK.

Life is good!
Jean-Marc
 
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cookie139

New Member
Hello there!

Well, after a lot of time and effort I've been able to get the Schengen Visa on my passport!! :) But now am worried about the immigration in Paris. I''ve been able to procure the visa from the German consulate and have been granted stay for 31 days. However, am not gonna be landing in Germany nor staying in Germany at anytime in the course of my journey. Can anyone please tell me if I could get into any kind of trouble with the immigration officials at the Paris airport??? Do they ask any questions about your journey or ask for hotel bookings or itinerary???
 

alesby

New Member
Hi,

I up top the topic.
I have the same problem in my Camino 2013 planning.

I'm not EU resident, from Belarus. The French Embassy requires booking of hotels to get the visa.
How I can book in advance if these small albergues don't provide the possibility. :(
Also I don't sure that I will sustain rate of walking to get to need hotel in concrete day. :)
 

nthnyds

New Member
Hi, A Shengen Visa can be used for ALL of the countries in the Schengen agreement. You only need apply to ONE of those countries (I think there are 17 or 19)
So - if you have a friend in one of the other countries who can invite you to stay for a period of time, (you don't necessarily have to go there first), you can use the relevant Schengen Visa to go to Spain to walk. I think??
 

alesby

New Member
nthnyds said:
Hi, A Shengen Visa can be used for ALL of the countries in the Schengen agreement. You only need apply to ONE of those countries (I think there are 17 or 19)
So - if you have a friend in one of the other countries who can invite you to stay for a period of time, (you don't necessarily have to go there first), you can use the relevant Schengen Visa to go to Spain to walk. I think??

yes. It's good solution. I can apply for Schengen visa to Lithuania embassy, for example.
I have got some relatives in the country. Then fly from Vilnius to Paris.
 

natsnotfazed

New Member
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sillydoll said:
South Africans also need a Schengen Visa to visit Europe and it is getting really tough to get the Visa.
We have to provide three months bank statements (originals), proof of residence, proof of financial support - up to 9 days: minimum amount is €561,60 More than 9 days: add €62,40 per day. Medical travel insurance of at least €30 000 and proof of accommodation for the entire period or a letter from a family member (stamped by the mayors office where they live!) or from the sporting organisation, business etc that has invited you, and proof of travel arrangements - original air ticket etc.

Hi Sillydoll,

I am also a South African and I just want to know if I would only need a Schengen Visa or would I need to collect a Pilgrims Passport in SJPP too for the Camino?

I am doing the Camino for two weeks and there after I will stay in Paris, Lisbon and Barcelona just sight seeing - so for this last part of my trip I know I will need the Schengen Visa right?

Natalie
 
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D

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The Pilgrim Passport (credencial) is required for admittance to municipal and parochial albergues and receiving a compostela at the end. Unless you are staying only in hostales and hoteles, you probably will want it in addition to your visa.
When registering at an albergue, pilgrims will be asked to present their credential to verify that they are walking or cycling the Camino. In addition, upon reaching Santiago de Compostela, at the Oficina de Acogida de Peregrinos (Pilgrims' Welcome Office, Rúa do Vilar 3/1, MapQuest map, Google Earth image and there are signs all over Santiago pointing to the office), pilgrims can present the stamped credential to confirm that they have walked at least the last 100 kilometers or cycled at least the last 200 kilometers, whereupon they receive a Compostela, a document that certifies their pilgrimage.
 

ccmay

New Member
robertt said:
Same with me, guys. I'd like to do a long one, but ninety days seems the limit. I've noticed that they fuss about it in Spain, but no-one seems to make an issue in France or Italy. Still, not worth the risk.

Is there a non-Schengen nation close to Camino countries where one can spend some time, rather than going all the way back to Oz?

Rob

Andorra and the Channel Islands are not part of the Schengen zone.
 

lea_r

New Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances SJPDP - Santiago (May 2013)
Hi! Does anyone have a sample "Cover Letter" that can be used when applying for the Schengen visa? It's not necessarily required, but I would like to present one to better explain my case to the consul. Thanks in advanced.
 

Yodapsy

Rob Blinn
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Camino Frances July 2013, Planning July 2018 Camino Portugues.
My wife will need a Schengen Visa for the Camino. I am a U.S. Citizen as are my kids, so we will not need one. My wife is a Chinese citizen. She has been to the U.S. on a visa 10 times now and never overstayed her visa or broke any of the regulations for visa holders. Will this make it easier for her to get the Schengen visa? For those of you who have applied for the Schengen visa, was there anything that seemed to be helpful during the process? We live in Beijing, so I assume we will need to apply at the Spanish embassy here.
 

lea_r

New Member
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Camino Frances SJPDP - Santiago (May 2013)
I just got my visa last week! :)

Yodapsy said:
My wife will need a Schengen Visa for the Camino. I am a U.S. Citizen as are my kids, so we will not need one. My wife is a Chinese citizen. She has been to the U.S. on a visa 10 times now and never overstayed her visa or broke any of the regulations for visa holders. Will this make it easier for her to get the Schengen visa? For those of you who have applied for the Schengen visa, was there anything that seemed to be helpful during the process? We live in Beijing, so I assume we will need to apply at the Spanish embassy here.

Her travel history would help. You would need to provide a solid financial guarantee (bank statements, payslips, tax returns) and other proof of attachment to the country of residence are what the consul would be looking for. My personal opinion, is she should not have difficulty getting approved for a visa given that she'll be going with you and the kids who are all U.S. citizens.
 
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Yodapsy

Rob Blinn
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Lea,

Congratulations and Buen Camino! :D

We are getting her application together but can't apply until the end of March because the application has to be made within 3 months of the trip. We will bring account statements, proof of her US visas and several visits, and health insurance coverage proof to her appointment.

Rob
 
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This might only apply to North (& South?) Americans and/or Aussies, as we do not have to apply for visas. But...

On the one hand, I've been told umpteen times (and have checked consular sites online) that I am entitled to stay in a EU country / Schengen territory for up to 90 days... ONLY. Maximum. Strictly enforced. Only very narrow exceptions. Don't even think about overstaying, you'll be fined, jailed, etc etc.

On the other hand, I know many people who have stayed and traveled around Europe for many more months than the officially-allotted time 90-day period, up to 6 months in some cases (possibly more in others), with no questioning at all upon their departure.

Is this a case of stating "official" policy vs what actually happens on the ground, once we land in, and then depart from, EU/Schengen states?
 

brawblether

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
June/Jul 2012; Feb 2014
Your confusion may come from the fact that it is 90 days within a 180 day period. This is the Australian government's page on European Entry Requirements which may be of some help but I strongly encourage you to find this information out from official agencies in your own country and not just there hearsay of contributors to a forum.
 

dougfitz

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As already stated, the rule is 90days in 180. How strictly it is enforced is difficult to tell. If you don't cross a Schengen border, it is unlikely your passport will be checked just because you are crossing an internal border. It is not normal but there is a provision in the treaty for that to happen, but I don't know how often it does. Overstaying might be detected by authorities if you are involved in some other official transaction requiring you to produce a passport.

Penalties that I know about include fines and being refused re-entry, but you would need to check with an official source if you needed all the details.

The only case I know, where the daughter of a friend overstayed, it involved a fine and considerable inconvenience to her travel plans when they found she had overstayed on her previous visit to the Schengen zone, and was not allowed to re-enter France. It appears that she was not alerted to the fact she had overstayed on her previous departure, which might be an indication that some authorities are more lenient at that point.
 
D

Deleted member 3000

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Most passports are electronically scanned now, so the old days of ink stamps and a clerk surveying the passport are gone. If you overstay your 90 days in 180, you are likely to be caught. That 90 days is for all the Schengen countries, so it is not 90 in France then 90 in Spain!
 
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piogaw

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I would not recommend that you overstay your 90 days stay. It is not worth the trouble if you get caught and you will live to regret it. You might not be allowed to get back to the schengen areas for a certain amount of time as punishment for breaking the law, and a possible fine.
 
D

Deleted member 3000

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You get 90 days in 180 days. If you start January 1 and stay the full ninety days to March 31, then on July 1 (approximately) you begin recovering days, and could stay another 90 days.
 

KiwiNomad06

Veteran Member
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Le Puy-Santiago(2008) Cluny-Conques+prt CF(2012)
Some countries, including New Zealand but not Australia, have bilateral agreements with many of the Schengen countries. This means we can stay 90 days in each of these countries, eg 90 days in France then 90 days in Spain. So some of the people you hear of staying more than 90 days may be from a country like New Zealand.
Margaret
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Past OR future Camino
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Can you apply for visas to cover longer stays than 90 days ?

One reason why you may have heard stories of people staying for 6 months or more is that the rules do vary a certain amount from one year to the next, including as according to the official terrorist threat levels ...
 

KinkyOne

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Past OR future Camino
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@JabbaPapa

As I know (living in Schengen area) this is only possible when you have extended or so-called "living permit" visa which means that you study, work etc. within Schengen or being married to a Schengen/EU member. Otherwise it's just turist 90/180 days visa. There may be some more exceptions (medical, owning property or similar) but not many that I've heard of.
 
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jmcorrigan

Member
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At the risk of being scolded again for my personal experiences in France, rather than sticking to reading the letter of the law or relying on second/third-hand stories from others, as an American with dual EU citizenship (Irish), I've never been confronted/fined/arrested because I've been here more than six months, nor have I ever been asked for my passport other than at an airport. And as for scanning of passports at the airports, I board planes in New York with my US passport, and enter France with my EU passport, and the inverse when going the other way, and the only time anyone ever got bent out of shape that the American who boarded the plane never arrived at his destination, or that an Irishman who never boarded the plane somehow entered France, etc., was in New York when the immigration officer got apoplectic that an EU resident would use his EU passport instead of his American passport to board a plane in Europe, forcing him to account for my presence on the plane. But that was during the Freedom Fries days.

My neighbors in France, an American couple with only US citizenship, have never had any trouble staying in France for six months a year without any visa, and traveling through Europe with their American passports.

Your mileage may vary.

PS, annoyingly, I do stop for two seconds at all Stop signs regardless of where I am.
 

jmcorrigan

Member
Past OR future Camino
Plan to walk As Soon As Possible!
It makes sense that you have not time restriction in the EU/Schengen countries. It is treaty law.

The dual citizenship followed many years of having only one passport. Nothing was different before I could enter the EU as an EU resident. Nobody ever seemed to care how long I was here. My point of bringing the passports up, since that might have been missed in the rush to point out my glaring error :) is that the scanning of passports doesn't seem to lead to any kind of alarm bells going off anywhere. But thank you for highlighting the meaning of citizenship rights.

By the way it is a felony to enter the US not using your US passport, even if you are an EU resident. I'm not sure the same criminal statute exists for dual state citizens arriving in Europe.

And I claim no knowledge of Spain's enforcement of European laws, other than traveling there for business a number times from Germany. No one seemed much interested in looking for passports on arrival then either and I was using a US passport, but maybe it was the suit...

My point is that it's good to know the law and follow it, but the reality on the ground is always much more fluid and usually forgiving. Traveling within Europe is much like traveling between States in the US. That is, in my personal experience.
 

pudgypilgrim

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
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Can you apply for visas to cover longer stays than 90 days ?

If you're a US citizen, no. Unfortunately there is nothing between the 90 days no-special requirements tourist admission and a residence visa. Many people here have tried to find a way around this.
 
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jmcorrigan

Member
Past OR future Camino
Plan to walk As Soon As Possible!
When you overstay your Schengen limit and get caught, just tell the immigration people that you read here that someone got away with a violation. I am sure they will then let you go.;)

I imagine they won't if you insist on winking at them. ;)
 

piogaw

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Past OR future Camino
Camino frances (05/06 2012) sjpdp-sdc; vdlp/camino sanabrea (02/03 2013) sevilla-sdc; hospitalero sdc june 2013, august-september 2013; caminho portugues (03 2014) lisboa-sdc
I, like jmcorrigan, also have dual nationality - us and irish. In 36 years of living in europe has never been stopped anywhere. I do not use my us passport when travelling anywhere except to the us. One way to get around the 90 days limitation is to get a resident permit if you can get one or as mentioned by mendiwalker is to marry an eec citizen or a legal resident of the eec states.

But be warn, if you overstay and get caught it is not going to be an easy ride with the authority. You can alway go to morocco before the expiry date and get your passport stamped before leaving morocco and upon entering spain. Or you can go east to any non-eec member states and get stamped upon leaving and entering an eec member state.

The chance of you being caught is very minumal. But you could be the one in a thousand or even 10,000 to happen to be caught then all hell will break loose. Due to the economic crisis in europe, raids and checks of immigrant status has been drastically stepped up in many eec states.
 
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Pattii

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I am from Canada. I can apply for a temporary resident visa while I am there according to what I have read so far. On what I think was the official website to apply for it with two ** ...in very small print... I think it stated something like I can "apply while within the country". I have also read that if one is staying for religious reasons in Spain they will often grant you and extended stay...ie a temp resident visa (this was on the Spanish Immigration webpage). I have family in Europe and would apply to stay to spend time with them or perhaps even to work or do missions. I have my degree's that will help if I want to look for work or with missions for that matter...both option are open. This is preliminary...I am still investigating. Still reading the websites and immigration laws for each.

Most people aren't staying for more than their allotted time so many don't even think about this visa being needed. At least not from my end of the world. I guess living in those countries one would be more aware but I certainly wasn't. I had started looking to stay in Spain longer anyway because I would like to work the Albergues and perhaps even stay there and buy...but thats another thread.

I will keep posting on what I can find and see if I can get some actual official links for them.
 
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Pattii

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Also...
At least in Canada ...Immigration is a tricky thing. They can be untouchable after they make a decision. And often (and this comes with experience) an immigration officer is having a bad day and decides he doesn't like the look of you and detains you. There is not a thing one can do after that except be deported or fight...often taking many months and with the end result being 50/50: they might let you in but they might ship you home and never let you back. That immigration officer will be supported by immigration law to the end of it. His word is law literally until it gets seen by a judge. It's not like 'oh maybe he made a mistake'. Once the decision is made it stays till its seen by a judge.

I would hate to be in a situation and be on the receiving end of another countries immigration law. It can be a bad thing to get sent home from a country. It limits you for ever after. I agree that probably one would go uncaught most of the time but there is the chance if one were caught that there would be a severe penalty. I would not want to NOT be able to go back to the Camino or any other place in Europe if I wanted. That would be just tragic.
 
Past OR future Camino
Francis SJPDP-SDC (2014, 2015, 2016, 2017) , Norte 2018
Pilgrim Office 2018, Hospitalero Acebo 2019
Also...
At least in Canada ...Immigration is a tricky thing. They can be untouchable after they make a decision. And often (and this comes with experience) an immigration officer is having a bad day and decides he doesn't like the look of you and detains you. There is not a thing one can do after that except be deported or fight...often taking many months and with the end result being 50/50: they might let you in but they might ship you home and never let you back. That immigration officer will be supported by immigration law to the end of it. His word is law literally until it gets seen by a judge. It's not like 'oh maybe he made a mistake'. Once the decision is made it stays till its seen by a judge.

I would hate to be in a situation and be on the receiving end of another countries immigration law. It can be a bad thing to get sent home from a country. It limits you for ever after. I agree that probably one would go uncaught most of the time but there is the chance if one were caught that there would be a severe penalty. I would not want to NOT be able to go back to the Camino or any other place in Europe if I wanted. That would be just tragic.
Yes, it is best you play it by the book as you have indicated you would. Perhaps you could go to an Embassy near you and ask them --if there is one close to you??? Anyhow, I am not an expert on foreign travel so don't listen to me...:)
 

lynnejohn

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances(2005), VDLP(2007), Madrid(2009), Ingles(2009), Sur (2011), VDLP(2011)-partial, VDLP(2014)
Pattii, I know your plans are in flux and you are investigating many possibilities, but I'm sure you know the unemployment situation in Spain:

Unemployment rate (July 2013) 26.26%
Youth unemployment rate (July 2013) 56.1%

I'd say the odds of getting a job, even with university degrees, are pretty dismal.

I'll bet interest in how you get on, though, with your immigration plans otherwise. Good luck!
 
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Pattii

Guest
Pattii, I know your plans are in flux and you are investigating many possibilities, but I'm sure you know the unemployment situation in Spain:

Unemployment rate (July 2013) 26.26%
Youth unemployment rate (July 2013) 56.1%

I'd say the odds of getting a job, even with university degrees, are pretty dismal.

I'll bet interest in how you get on, though, with your immigration plans otherwise. Good luck!

The Job would be in Sweden or Norway...then I could still travel for a time... School is another option. I would not expect to work in Spain. I would be going there on a specific visa for religious work ...there are special circumstances... I have no intention of trying to find a job in Spain. I actually never have even thot of working there...specially with the unemployment rate so high. Only if there were a specific job they could not find a citizen to fill. And as you said...the chances of that are slim to none.
The idea to work actually comes from my Brother in law who is a dual citizen in both Norway and Sweden. I know there are lots of jobs there that my degree's would help me with. My sister has her citizenship in Sweden for some time...so that is the direction I would take with working.
Anyway... The idea is to just be on the Camino for an extended time volunteering etc. I am lucky time wise and financially that I can do that.
 
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Pattii

Guest
Yes, it is best you play it by the book as you have indicated you would. Perhaps you could go to an Embassy near you and ask them --if there is one close to you??? Anyhow, I am not an expert on foreign travel so don't listen to me...:)
Yes I think so. I am planning to get to the specific Embassy's and find out which it would be better to apply for. I have around a year...if I had go later for good reasons say getting a living visa I would be willing to do so.

Anyway. I have experienced immigration and don't feel like dealing with those issues. Its better to find a way around it. I am also considering cutting my trip in sections. And I have considered changing my other travelling plans to include Ireland and Scotland...some of Britain... Maybe that will work for me.
I will be led to the right path I am sure...
But I don't ever want to be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I would be devastated to not be allowed to go back to these wonderful glorious places that Canadians have a hard time even fathoming as I know one visit will never suffice.
 
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lynnejohn

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances(2005), VDLP(2007), Madrid(2009), Ingles(2009), Sur (2011), VDLP(2011)-partial, VDLP(2014)
Ah, I see. Wise to be cautious about all of the rules.... I have friends who were put on the no-fly list through no fault of their own, and now they can't get off.

I'm fascinated by this topic since jmcorrigan's post, where I learned that I can get an Irish passport! My grandparents were born in Ireland... so it's there if I need it, I guess. I wonder how many EUcountries offer this option. In any case, half the fun of your next adventure is in the planning. So have fun!
 

jmcorrigan

Member
Past OR future Camino
Plan to walk As Soon As Possible!
Italy does.
Hi Falcon, I'm curious about this as my wife tried to get citizenship there because her mother was born in Italy, but for the period of my wife's birth at the end of WW2, it had to be your Father who was born in Italy! Your mother didn't count, apparently.
 

jmcorrigan

Member
Past OR future Camino
Plan to walk As Soon As Possible!
Ah, I see. Wise to be cautious about all of the rules.... I have friends who were put on the no-fly list through no fault of their own, and now they can't get off.

I'm fascinated by this topic since jmcorrigan's post, where I learned that I can get an Irish passport! My grandparents were born in Ireland... so it's there if I need it, I guess. I wonder how many EUcountries offer this option. In any case, half the fun of your next adventure is in the planning. So have fun!
Hi Lynnejohn, I just want to warn you that the process with the Irish embassy in New York took 2 years for me. Before I could get an Irish passport, I had to get my Irish citizenship, which required me to register my father's "foreign" birth in the US. It was a long process, but fairly straightforward. If you decide to do it I'd be happy to tell you the specifics of how I got it done. Feel free to contact me.
 
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lynnejohn

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Frances(2005), VDLP(2007), Madrid(2009), Ingles(2009), Sur (2011), VDLP(2011)-partial, VDLP(2014)
jmcorrigan - thanks for the offer!! If it's that lengthy a process, who knows when I would ever get around to it!:)
 
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Deleted member 3000

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If your father was naturalized before you were born, no dual citizenship either. Equally sexist??:)
 
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Pattii

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Its too bad it took till the 20th century for men to realize that they wouldn't be around if not for us...lol
 
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Pattii

Guest
grins...not saying you don't...just saying you kinda need us ...and im really glad some of you see that...lol
 

piogaw

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino frances (05/06 2012) sjpdp-sdc; vdlp/camino sanabrea (02/03 2013) sevilla-sdc; hospitalero sdc june 2013, august-september 2013; caminho portugues (03 2014) lisboa-sdc
hello jmcorrigan,
i don't know when you obtained your irish citizenship, but i believe the laws regarding obtaining irish citizenship through blood relationship have changed. it used to be very easy to obtain irish citizenship if you can prove your great grandfather/great grandmother, was an irish citizen now it is quite strict for what reasons i don't know. maybe it is due to too many people trying to claim irish nationality in order to live or work in eec states and european economic member like switzerland.

when i married my irish wife in 1980 i have to wait for 3 years for irish citizenship. however at that time when an irish man marries a foreign wife, upon their marriage, she becomes an irish citizen immediately. the law has been changed for everyone to wait for 3 years.

on the other hand, when my son was born in ireland, he is an irish by thvirtue of my wife or my irish citizenship. my son also inherited my us nationality by registering with the us embassy.

i also believe every eec states have laws that make it difficult to obtain eec nationalities. maybe with the exception of hungary. if you can prove you have hungarian ancestry, the hungarian government will grant you hungarian citizenship.
 
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jmcorrigan

Member
Past OR future Camino
Plan to walk As Soon As Possible!
Hi piogaw, I just checked and this is what the Department of Foreign Affairs of Ireland says about getting Irish citizenship:

"If you were born outside Ireland to an Irish citizen who was himself or herself born outside Ireland, and any of your grandparents were born in Ireland, then you are entitled to become an Irish citizen, and can do so by having your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register maintained by the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs. You can do this by applying to your nearest Irish embassy or consular office."

The page is here: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP11000024

It was complicated for me as I had to posthumously make my father an Irish citizen by asserting his right to it since his mother (my grandmother) was born there. Once I did that, I had the right to record my 'foreign birth' and obtain my citizenship. Then I could apply for my passport. I don't know if this is how it used to be done or not, but regardless, you have to have a lot of patience and be thankful that it's even possible :)
 

NicoZ

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2013
This might only apply to North (& South?) Americans and/or Aussies, as we do not have to apply for visas. But...

On the one hand, I've been told umpteen times (and have checked consular sites online) that I am entitled to stay in a EU country / Schengen territory for up to 90 days... ONLY. Maximum. Strictly enforced. Only very narrow exceptions. Don't even think about overstaying, you'll be fined, jailed, etc etc.

On the other hand, I know many people who have stayed and traveled around Europe for many more months than the officially-allotted time 90-day period, up to 6 months in some cases (possibly more in others), with no questioning at all upon their departure.

Is this a case of stating "official" policy vs what actually happens on the ground, once we land in, and then depart from, EU/Schengen states?


The obvious answer is you're missing your oranges and your apples.

Schengen treaty while it covers mainly EU countries doesn't cover all EU countries. It also includes some non EU countries. Then of course you have the fact that Europe is bigger then the EU. So it's very easy to be legally 365/24/7 in Europe. It'll mean moving around. You won't be able to work etc. But a long vacation is possible if you are willing to follow the various rules.

It's been mentioned that nobody bothers checking passports between Schengen countries. Border controls aren't really legal between the various members of the treaty. If you're legally in one country you can travel legal between them.

Now if they feel you look funny they can still stop you. Just not at the border. Yesterday I saw an Ukranine kid on a bike stopped by a pair of German patrol officers. They wanted to see it papers. So it happens.

If you're 60 taking a cab to the airport not likely. If you're a 20 something looking for working carrying a backpack more often.
 

jirit

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances 2007,
Via Francigena Italy, 2008,
Jakobsweg Austria 2010,
Camino Frances 2011,
Le Puy to Lourdes 2012,
Via de la Plata 2013,
Future:
Ökumenischer (Via Regia), Germany,
Lycian Way, Turkey
The obvious answer is you're missing your oranges and your apples.

Schengen treaty while it covers mainly EU countries doesn't cover all EU countries. It also includes some non EU countries. Then of course you have the fact that Europe is bigger then the EU. So it's very easy to be legally 365/24/7 in Europe. It'll mean moving around. You won't be able to work etc. But a long vacation is possible if you are willing to follow the various rules.

It's been mentioned that nobody bothers checking passports between Schengen countries. Border controls aren't really legal between the various members of the treaty. If you're legally in one country you can travel legal between them.

Now if they feel you look funny they can still stop you. Just not at the border. Yesterday I saw an Ukranine kid on a bike stopped by a pair of German patrol officers. They wanted to see it papers. So it happens.

If you're 60 taking a cab to the airport not likely. If you're a 20 something looking for working carrying a backpack more often.

I think you need to be careful about lumping all EU countries together.

There are few EU countries that are not part of this agreement. England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales are generally not considered part of Europe but are part of the EU. They are not part of the agreement, so this is probably the one place you could go for the balance of the time, other than a few countries in former Yugoslavia.

Just about every other European country is now part of this agreement, so again you are restricted to spending a total of 90 days per 180 day period in this zone, meaning within a year you need to spend 90 days outside of the zone too.
 
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Pattii

Guest
Basically...when it comes to visa's and immigration one is always better to follow the rules. Yes I know there is a big chance nothing would happen but murphy's law always seems to find me when I don't play by the rules. I just think either changing plans or getting a visa are the only two alternatives...at least for me.
I have been doing some research into Ireland and Scotland...both are great hiking locations and Ireland does have a connection to the Camino...and even pilgrimages of their own.
 

jirit

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances 2007,
Via Francigena Italy, 2008,
Jakobsweg Austria 2010,
Camino Frances 2011,
Le Puy to Lourdes 2012,
Via de la Plata 2013,
Future:
Ökumenischer (Via Regia), Germany,
Lycian Way, Turkey
Basically...when it comes to visa's and immigration one is always better to follow the rules. Yes I know there is a big chance nothing would happen but murphy's law always seems to find me when I don't play by the rules. I just think either changing plans or getting a visa are the only two alternatives...at least for me.
I have been doing some research into Ireland and Scotland...both are great hiking locations and Ireland does have a connection to the Camino...and even pilgrimages of their own.
Hi Patti

The term Schengen visa is a little misleading.

If you want to stay beyond the 90 day period you need a long term Schengen D visa which really is a country specific long term visa. This means you need to apply for a visa for the country you plan to spend the most time in under that country's rules.

For example if you really want to spend the bulk of your time in Spain then you must apply for a long term visa selecting what Spanish visa is most appropriate for your situation. But you won't find a tourist type visa. Instead you find visas such as a resident visas, working visas, family based visas, etc.

In other words the expectation is you are applying for this visa because you plan to move to Spain and live, work or retire there. If and once you get it ( you normally have to prove that you have independent medical coverage, a source of income, etc), then you are free to move around Europe and do as you please much like any other EU resident.

However if you do stay longer than 180 days you are then responsible for Spanish income taxes on all income earned from all sources, etc.

So just to be clear there is really no such thing as a long term Schengen visa for people simply wanting to travel throughout Europe for more than 90 days.
 
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Pattii

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The country I want to spend most time in is Spain. There are other ways of staying in Spain...specifically on a resident/non working visa for religious or other specific reasons. It is the country you are staying primarily in that you apply for an extended visa but do it as a temporary non working resident. You cannot be out of Canada for longer than 180 days from what I understand and because I am Canadian...temporary resident visa's are available but they say they are better applied for if and when you know you are going to stay and can be applied for while in the country of choice. I have family in one of the Schengen countries and if I wanted to apply for an extended stay I could.
My plan was to of course stay in Spain for an extended period but I decided that my first trip over I would avoid the visa and inquire once I am there what to do about the "special circumstance" visa as I will have already walked the Camino and worked at an albergue when I apply as the idea is to work(lightly writen as I am not expecting pay) on the Camino. I also have a degree in theology so this helps me tremendously with the application.
The idea is that this visa is not a free for all. That is understood by me at least. I know that when dealing with special circumstances there are many countries that will allow you to stay as long as you are not working. I have an income that remains mine no matter where I go so technically I never have to work outside my own country. I am not a normal circumstance...

However I do think I am going to only do 90 days there and the other 90 in other countries outside the Schengen countries this time around. Then I am going to apply for the special visa that you can get through Spain to stay for religious reasons. I am also going to apply to see if I can find a way to stay in Sweden/Norway which is where my family is...that would give me access to the Schengen countries as well.
 
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Past OR future Camino
Francis SJPDP-SDC (2014, 2015, 2016, 2017) , Norte 2018
Pilgrim Office 2018, Hospitalero Acebo 2019
I have a question Pattii. It is kind of related to this thread. How long can stay in Spain doing the Camino? For instance I am going From SJPDP to Muxia/Fin. I may end up taking 40-45 days. Is that ok?
 

jirit

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances 2007,
Via Francigena Italy, 2008,
Jakobsweg Austria 2010,
Camino Frances 2011,
Le Puy to Lourdes 2012,
Via de la Plata 2013,
Future:
Ökumenischer (Via Regia), Germany,
Lycian Way, Turkey
The country I want to spend most time in is Spain. There are other ways of staying in Spain...specifically on a resident/non working visa for religious or other specific reasons. It is the country you are staying primarily in that you apply for an extended visa but do it as a temporary non working resident. You cannot be out of Canada for longer than 180 days from what I understand and because I am Canadian...temporary resident visa's are available but they say they are better applied for if and when you know you are going to stay and can be applied for while in the country of choice. I have family in one of the Schengen countries and if I wanted to apply for an extended stay I could.
My plan was to of course stay in Spain for an extended period but I decided that my first trip over I would avoid the visa and inquire once I am there what to do about the "special circumstance" visa as I will have already walked the Camino and worked at an albergue when I apply as the idea is to work(lightly writen as I am not expecting pay) on the Camino. I also have a degree in theology so this helps me tremendously with the application.
The idea is that this visa is not a free for all. That is understood by me at least. I know that when dealing with special circumstances there are many countries that will allow you to stay as long as you are not working. I have an income that remains mine no matter where I go so technically I never have to work outside my own country. I am not a normal circumstance...

However I do think I am going to only do 90 days there and the other 90 in other countries outside the Schengen countries this time around. Then I am going to apply for the special visa that you can get through Spain to stay for religious reasons. I am also going to apply to see if I can find a way to stay in Sweden/Norway which is where my family is...that would give me access to the Schengen countries as well.
Hi Patti

Sounds like you have everything under control and you understand the Spanish visa landscape better than most.

One minor point: you can stay out of Canada longer than 180 days. There is nothing stopping from doing so, except that most public provincial health care plans will not let stay out of province for more than 6 months. Rev Canada will tax you were ever you are as long as you remain Canadian for tax purposes. BC just extended its out of province health care to 7 months and if need be you can ask for a special 2 year coverage ( only good every five years).
 
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Pattii

Guest
As far as I know it doesn't matter where in the Schengen countries you are in as long as its not longer than 90 days. I plan on doing 2 weeks in france one in Italy and the rest in Spain except one week at Christmas with my sister.. So I am spending 60 days in Spain. There are some really cool ruins I HAVE to see around Madrid...But I am spending quite some time on the Camino. I think the time you are spending will be fine...grins.
 
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Pattii

Guest
Hi Patti

Sounds like you have everything under control and you understand the Spanish visa landscape better than most.

One minor point: you can stay out of Canada longer than 180 days. There is nothing stopping from doing so, except that most public provincial health care plans will not let stay out of province for more than 6 months. Rev Canada will tax you were ever you are as long as you remain Canadian for tax purposes. BC just extended its out of province health care to 7 months and if need be you can ask for a special 2 year coverage ( only good every five years).
For me its about my pension. I have to be in Canada for at least a couple weeks every 180 days. But I do have family and friends here so its not hard to do that.
I have been trying to exhaust every lead I can find on the visa thing. Its not easy. Everyone says its easy to find European sites on google but I find it a little harder...not sure if its that I'm not looking in the right places. But I am going to investigate further. I am making an appointment to see someone in the Spanish consulate in my city very soon.

One thing I do advise though is to start early. It can take months and months to get the documents they need.
Also...don't give up...Sometimes its finding the loopholes that makes the difference but it can be trial and error to find them.
 
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julie

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2019
Everyone says its easy to find European sites on google but I find it a little harder...not sure if its that I'm not looking in the right places. But I am going to investigate further. I am making an appointment to see someone in the Spanish consulate in my city very soon.
When I'm researching something specific to another country I use the applicable country code with google e.g. for Spain, rather than using google.com, use google.es and for France use google.fr
Of course, most of what you'll find will be in the language of that country but, with any luck, there'll be an English language button or you can use (say) google translate.
Sounds like a face-to-face with the Spanish consulate would be a good idea.
 
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Pattii

Guest
Thanks I am gonna try that...it probably will get me further along and I can use the translation button as you say!
 

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Past OR future Camino
Many, various, and continuing.
I am an American married to a UK citizen, living in Spain for the past eight years. We have seen US, Australian, NZ, South American and South African citizens come and go from here pretty much as long as they like, with no problems from customs or border authorities.

Long as they were white-skinned and reasonably wealthy-looking.
 

JP2speeds

New Member
Past OR future Camino
Arles-Santiago 2002,Le Puy 2004, El Norte+Primitivo 2006, Leon-Santiago+Portugese 2007 , La Plata 2010, San Salvador+ Primitivo 2012, Via Francigena Italian part 2013. VF Besançon-Italy; Genève-Le Puy 2014. Luther way+Le Puy-St-Gilles+Piemont camino+Camino Frances 2015.
Hello Pattii,
I am a fellow canadian planning to walk 4-5 months in France Italy and Spain next year. I am confused on out to stay "legally" in the Schengen area longer than 90 days. I have read recently that EU is thighten the 90/180 days law since last late autumn. So have you find the best way to do it? Thanks.
 
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William Marques

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Staff member
NEW INFORMATION from Jonas Ewe which may help citizens of some countries,

"I have made some research.
The 90/180 rule for Schengen is clear. i.e. you are only allowed to stay 90 days in any 180 day period.
Note that citizens from most developed countries do not require visas.
However I discovered there are also BILATERAL agreements between two states e.g. USA - France. USA-Poland. Canada - Denmark
I came across a good explanation on this Danish site

New to Denmark - Visa-free travel
http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/coming_to_dk/visa/Visa_free_travel.htm

"Citizens of certain countries are entitled to stay in Denmark for 90 days, regardless of stays in other Schengen countries.
Citizens of Australia, Canada, Chile, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea and the US can freely enter and stay in Denmark for up to 90 days in any 180-day period, regardless of whether they have stayed in another Schengen country prior to entry into Denmark. The 90 days are counted from the entry date into Denmark or another Nordic country. If you have previously spent time in Denmark or another Nordic country within the previous 180 days, that time will be deducted from the 90-day maximum."


So when you enter Denmark with e.g. a US passport (other countries also listed) you can stay a further 90 days even if you have already been a total of 90 days in other Schengen countries, but you must leave without entering the Schengen area again. The United Kingdom is NOT in Schengen, so fly to London.

The question is now has your own country bilateral agreements with Spain, France, Switzerland and Italy etc? Especially Spain if you end your Camino there and you took more than 90 days to walk. If Spain has an agreement it may be possible to stay longer as long as you don't return to a Schengen country, so fly home direct or via London or another non Schengen country.

Jonas"
 
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JP2speeds

New Member
Past OR future Camino
Arles-Santiago 2002,Le Puy 2004, El Norte+Primitivo 2006, Leon-Santiago+Portugese 2007 , La Plata 2010, San Salvador+ Primitivo 2012, Via Francigena Italian part 2013. VF Besançon-Italy; Genève-Le Puy 2014. Luther way+Le Puy-St-Gilles+Piemont camino+Camino Frances 2015.
Ok, you can stay in Denmarck 90 more. I am not passing by Denmark. Has anyone find out how to ask for a longterm visa in any EU country?
jpierre
 

rubyslippers

Ruby Slippers
Past OR future Camino
April-May (2008) September (2012)
The Schengen countries - 90 days in 180 days. I read all of the posts above and I'd just say that flying for the airline like I did, some countries are more strident in checking passports than others - esp in airports. Germany questioned each of our crew members to the end degree and some of my fellow Flight Attendants do the European Schengen countries all the time so their passport is scanned and rescanned a hundred times. If someone WITH a crew and IN a uniform gets questioned like we do then I'd just follow the rules. In the long run it is easier.
 

William Marques

Moderator
Staff member
Ok, you can stay in Denmarck 90 more. I am not passing by Denmark. Has anyone find out how to ask for a longterm visa in any EU country?
jpierre

Denmark was used as an example. It is up to individuals to find out if the country in which they live has a bilateral agreement with Spain or other relevant country which extends the Shengen time limit..
 

biarritzdon

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
CF11, CF12, CP13, CF14, CA15, S.Anton15, CF&CI15
Ditch Pig16, CF&CP17, CdN18, CM18, CF18, LePuy19
Ok, you can stay in Denmarck 90 more. I am not passing by Denmark. Has anyone find out how to ask for a longterm visa in any EU country?
jpierre
I am an American and I have a long stay French visa because I live here 8 months of the year. All I can tell you is the process is a total pain in the "a" I have to renew my visa every year by presenting the identical information I presented the year before at the sous prefecture in Bayonne every February. It costs me about 100 Euros every year. I applied for my first long stay visa at the French Consulate in Miami and if my memory serves me well the first "carte" cost me around 200USD and took 2 trips to the consulate over a several week process. I hope that helps.
I would heartily suggest not to overstay the 90 day limit because you could find yourself in deep dodo, if you do.
 
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whariwharangi

Guest
Ok, you can stay in Denmarck 90 more. I am not passing by Denmark. Has anyone find out how to ask for a longterm visa in any EU country?
jpierre

Canada Government Travel Advice:
http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/spain

Note the section where it says: "To visit for longer than 90 days, you must obtain a long-stay national visa." For which you contact the embassy of the country you are planning to visit.

Embajada de España en Ottawa:
http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Embajadas/OTTAWA/en/Pages/inicio.aspx

I'd be careful of 2nd hand information such as that posted here about Denmark. Denmark is a special case in that the Faroes and Greenland are not part of the Schengen area.

Here is Denmark Embassy to Canada discussion on visas.
http://canada.um.dk/en/travel-and-residence/visas/

Final cautions are:

-Don't rely on anything you read on the forum. You are responsible to confirm details of your travel plan.

-Don't overstay your visa. You put yourself at risk of serious penalties. You make travel harder for others.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

William Marques

Moderator
Staff member
This is the information from the New Zealand Embassy regarding bilateral agreements:

"Visa-free access for New Zealand passport holders intending to stay for more than 3 months in the Schengen area is complicated.

Schengen area countries permit most holders of passports from outside the Schengen area to stay visa-free in theSchengen area as a whole, regardless of the particular country or countries, for no more than 3 months out of a 6-month period. (This is sometimes expressed as 90 days out of a 180 day period.)

However, New Zealand has bilateral visa waiver agreements with many of the individual countries in the Schengen area. These visa waiver agreements allow New Zealanders to spend up to three months in the relevant country, without reference to time spent in other Schengen area countries. The European Commission has confirmed that these agreements continue to be valid. These agreements thus effectively override the Schengen area restriction (which would otherwise be imposed on New Zealand passport holders) of no more than 3 months out of a 6-month period in the Schengen area as a whole.

The countries with which New Zealand has bilateral visa waiver agreements are:

Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden

You can, therefore, move visa-free among the above countries for periods of up to 3 months in each country. If, however, you move to other countries in the Schengen area, the restriction of no more than 3 months out of a 6-month period in the Schengen area as a whole applies. If you have already spent 3 months in one or more of the above countries, your presence in a Schengen area country with which New Zealand does not have a bilateral visa waiver agreement may be challenged by local border control, police or other authorities. You may also be accused of being an overstayer when you leave the Schengen area, or when you enter another country outside the Schengen area."

So it would appear that for Kiwis the same applies in Spain as indicated above in Denmark.

"Despite confirmation from the European Commission that the visa waiver agreements continue to be valid, border and immigration officials in Schengen area countries are occasionally unaware of this and question New Zealanders’ rights to stay visa-free in the Schengen area for longer than 3 months.

Before you embark on your travel, you should contact the Embassy or Consulate of the Schengen area countries you plan to visit (not the New Zealand Embassy once you are overseas) to get the latest update on visitor visa requirements if you plan to stay in the whole Schengen area for more than 3 months."

I do not propose to check every country but if you do, please post the information here.
 
W

whariwharangi

Guest
From the same website you posted referring to the bilateral agreement between Denmark and Canada (and various other countries)

http://canada.um.dk/en/travel-and-residence/visas/bilateral-visa-agreements/

Interestingly the Canada travel page makes no mention of a bilateral agreement with Denmark. It just discusses the 90/180 Schengen rules.

I've met people who (claiming ignorance) unknowingly were on the verges of being in violation so the Denmark angle might be a way to dodge trouble.
 

jim garrity

Member
Past OR future Camino
Malaga to cordoba
This might only apply to North (& South?) Americans and/or Aussies, as we do not have to apply for visas. But...

On the one hand, I've been told umpteen times (and have checked consular sites online) that I am entitled to stay in a EU country / Schengen territory for up to 90 days... ONLY. Maximum. Strictly enforced. Only very narrow exceptions. Don't even think about overstaying, you'll be fined, jailed, etc etc.

On the other hand, I know many people who have stayed and traveled around Europe for many more months than the officially-allotted time 90-day period, up to 6 months in some cases (possibly more in others), with no questioning at all upon their departure.

Is this a case of stating "official" policy vs what actually happens on the ground, once we land in, and then depart from, EU/Schengen states?
What i can tell you is if you have an irish grandparent you qualify for a EU passport and you can stay then in any of the 27 EU states for as long as you want! Hows them for apples!
 
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