Selfish? Self Indulgent?

[Robo]

Whilst I look forward with great anticipation to our first Camino next year, it struck me that this was perhaps a rather selfish and self indulgent act?

My wife and i plan to 'take it easy' and not rush the CF. And maybe take a break at the end. So I have planned to take 2 months away from work.

This will cause some 'angst' amongst the team I leave behind to run my business in my absence. But as I said to them today "What if I get run over by a Bus"? This might be a good practice drill !

I want to go. Really want to go! I may enjoy the experience so much that I won't want to come back And that's fine with me too.

But I was just reflecting.....

This IS rather a self indulgent 'journey' isn't it? And do I/we have the right to be so 'selfish'?

Maybe that's what I need to learn on the Camino? My life so far has largely been lived in the service of others........

 

[koilife]

A muscle that is constantly contracted will cramp, and the lung that is constantly inhaling will burst. From time to time, it's good to relax and exhale.

Perhaps, most importantly, simply enjoy the time with your wife. If it helps with the mental/emotional justification process, look at this as a two-month investment in your marriage, which is worth far more than any business. And, allow for the chance that God has planned some great inner work that will begin, grow, and/or reach fulfillment during your Camino.

Best wishes for you and your wife! Buen Camino!

 

[Rambler]

Robo:
You have hit on a very intriguing aspect of any of these long walks. It is a bit selfish to leave one's loved ones behind to "Find yourself". It means someone else is taking care of your bills, your pets, your stuff... so that you can be contemplative.

"My friend went to the Camino and all I got was to do his work and this t-shirt" - Have these printed up for those left behind


Everyone needs a chance to get away from their normal routine and think about the future and get a different perspective on life. This can also be combined with a challenging journey that tests a person's will and drive and leaves them with a sense of accomplishment. But doing this often is on the shoulders of others that provide the space for making this possible, be it a spouse, child, parent, co-worker, etc.

It is selfish. But it should be something that is reciprocated out to others in a strong perspective of service to others in your daily life. If you are constantly giving, or you come back from the Camino and give back to others by providing them a similar opportunity, it will be a win/win.

Rambler

 

[RobertS26]

I want to go. Really want to go! I may enjoy the experience so much that I won't want to come back And that's fine with me too.

I am self-employed and have no employees or co-workers. As a result, I had no one who could babysit my clients while I spent 42 days on the Camino. This left me with three options: (1) never walk the Camino; (2) walk the Camino without communicating with my clients for 42 days (thus driving my business into the ground); or (3) walk the Camino and maintain contact with my clients (thus keeping my business afloat). I chose the third option (I would have preferred the second option, but I just didn't have enough money in the bank to throw my business away).

I found actual communication to be doable. The Camino is wired. Almost every café and alberque has wifi. The Camino itself has great cell phone coverage. As such, you will have the opportunity to communicate with your co-workers, including Skype if necessary.

That being said, I have two admonitions. First, anything more than an hour a day spend on business will quickly begin to diminish the effects and purpose of walking the Camino. Second, conduct your business away from others. No one wants to be walking on the Camino and be forced to listen to someone blabbing on a cell phone. If you must make a call, step off the Camino out of courtesy to others.

And finally, I often stayed in albergues that had private rooms, rural casas, or cheap hotels across the street from regular albergues that did not have private rooms to further insulate and protect my fellow pilgrims from having to be exposed to me running my business from 5,000 miles away.

 

[Robo]

Thanks for these responses. Of this I'm sure:

1. We are certainly going.
2. I feel very strongly it is something I at least need to do.
3. I will be 'unplugged' except for an emergency number I will give to one of my team as I want to 'lose' myself totally to the Camino.

I was just reflecting... and thinking that it is actually a bit self indulgent.

 

[econodan]

Go!

We spent a little over two months working our way from Montserrat (near Barcelona) to Finisterre, and the Camino was truly transformative for us (mostly in ways we never could have anticipated). Allow the Camino to take you in; you'll find your own meanings along the way.

Like Robert, I am (partially) self employed. I carried a cell phone and small computer for the few occasions when I needed to respond to colleagues or clients, and that was more than adequate. His advice about courtesy and maintaining respect for others' experience is spot on.

Buen camino.

Dan

 

[hampshire!tim]

Hi Robo.
Constantly putting yourself last or towards bottom of list will eventually compromise your ability to be of service to others, staff and clients.
It may be because of a serious health issue, or just burn-out. The symptom is unimportant, the consequence is what matters.
Selfish or self-indulgent can only be judged in the overall context, and I would guess it only becomes those things with a very narrow context. In a wider context it is about preserving your ability to contribute and also giving others scope to grow, and possibly surprise themselves what they can achieve (and enjoy?).
I had a similar scenario last year when I decided to do the CF at about 3 weeks notice. Consternation and angst amidst the team. I did stay in touch with them sporadically over the 5week period, but far less than either they or I expected. They handled everything fine. It definitely has allowed me to step back from routine management even further in the 6 months I have been back.
I hope to spend 3 months away on the next trip, for which I will need to be in touch, but hopefully sporadically again. A precedent has been set with the first trip. There are issues about forcing people into the driving seat who don't want that role, but overall I do feel it was a management development project last time, as well as a spiritual recharging for me, and next time it will be a dress rehearsal, for that dreaded bus or just for a gradual exit.
So only you can judge if selfish, based on your motives and overall context, but I suspect it is not selfish at all, just a balancing of your needs and ensuring the business & team can rise to the challenge.

 

[pbucilla]

An adult friend recommended to me three children's books which he thought had special wisdom for adults. One of those books was The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein. It's about the hazards of giving too much of oneself, even when given with love, and how that can lead to such deep depletion, that one has little left to give. In other words it's about finding the balance of selfishness and selflessness.

 

[Robo]

An adult friend recommended to me three children's books which he thought had special wisdom for adults. One of those books was The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein. It's about the hazards of giving too much of oneself, even when given with love, and how that can lead to such deep depletion, that one has little left to give. In other words it's about finding the balance of selfishness and selflessness.

What a great story. Thanks for sharing.

Didn't the tree do a great job!

There's always another perspective

 

[jeffnd]

The easiest way to give over feelings of selfishness is to avoid being selfish in the first place. You are taking 2 months off while the rest of your employees will continue to work and you'll continue to reap the financial benefits of that work. Don't forget, they'll also be taking on more work to make up for your absence. You don't have to be completely selfless, but this is a situation where you can show your generosity, perhaps in the way of bonuses, raises, or some other type of monetary compensation.

Also, when you get back, remember that your employees also need to get away from work. So think about that when someone asks for time off. You can be gone for 2 months and you have a job waiting for you when you come home. Do your employees enjoy the same reassurance?

For the love of all that is holy, DO NOT leave them insulting t-shirts. Remember, St. James is also the patron saint of laborers...

 

[CaminoKris2013]

Whilst I look forward with great anticipation to our first Camino next year, it struck me that this was perhaps a rather selfish and self indulgent act?

My wife and i plan to 'take it easy' and not rush the CF. And maybe take a break at the end. So I have planned to take 2 months away from work.

This will cause some 'angst' amongst the team I leave behind to run my business in my absence. But as I said to them today "What if I get run over by a Bus"? This might be a good practice drill !

I want to go. Really want to go! I may enjoy the experience so much that I won't want to come back And that's fine with me too.

But I was just reflecting.....

This IS rather a self indulgent 'journey' isn't it? And do I/we have the right to be so 'selfish'?

Maybe that's what I need to learn on the Camino? My life so far has largely been lived in the service of others........

Think of it this way....down the line if you look back do you want to see that you spent the time on the Camino, walking with your wife or going on as always, servicing every one but yourself. No one appreciates a martyr, until they are long gone, if at all...

Buen Camino!

 

[Robo]

Think of it this way....down the line if you look back do you want to see that you spent the time on the Camino, walking with your wife or going on as always, servicing every one but yourself. No one appreciates a martyr, until they are long gone, if at all...

Buen Camino!

All great sentiments. But I don't really care what other people think of my life's efforts anyway.
When all is said and done, will I be able to look in the mirror and feel that my life was worthwhile? Did I always try to 'do the right thing'? To me at least, that's what counts.

Who knows, my post Camino views may differ

 

[newfydog]

Glad to hear you are going together....I've met enough people out there struggling with how they would ever return to their former life. I will say most of them missed their spouse more than they missed their business partners!

 

[Robo]

Glad to hear you are going together....I've met enough people out there struggling with how they would ever return to their former life. I will say most of them missed their spouse more than they missed their business partners!

I can't imagine not doing it together, but I also realise it will make it harder! At least if we 'change' through walking the Camino, we'll both change.
Wouldn't it be awful to come back home a 'changed man' to a partner that could not understand why you changed, or what drove the change?

 

[tyrrek]

For everything there is a season and a purpose under heaven. Maybe you've had to put your spiritual side second at times while securing the material wellbeing of your family and employees. It‘s all a balance.
You seem to be concerned mostly about work. Why not incorporate some work into your Camino? Picking some litter as you walk will help to lessen any feelings of self indulgence. Buen Camino!

 

[Robo]

For everything there is a season and a purpose under heaven. Maybe you've had to put your spiritual side second at times while securing the material wellbeing of your family and employees. It‘s all a balance.
You seem to be concerned mostly about work. Why not incorporate some work into your Camino? Picking some litter as you walk will help to lessen any feelings of self indulgence. Buen Camino!

I shall pack some surgical gloves. Being lightweight

 

[Kanga]

Thanks for these responses. Of this I'm sure:

1. We are certainly going.
2. I feel very strongly it is something I at least need to do.
3. I will be 'unplugged' except for an emergency number I will give to one of my team as I want to 'lose' myself totally to the Camino.

I was just reflecting... and thinking that it is actually a bit self indulgent.

Robo,
What goes around, comes around. The physical health benefits alone will make you more able to help others, let alone the mental health benefits. Decisions I've made on Camino ultimately have benefitted others. I'm convinced the Camino experience makes us more reflective, rounded, tolerant, kindly humans, better able to relate well to each other.
Go and live every moment.

 

[Rambler]

Reading all the responses here, Robo, I realize you have asked the question to the wrong group of people. Almost all of us that participate here have had life changing experiences on the Camino and look forward to doing it again. We have all benefited greatly for that and want to share it with others.
But your question is one that haunts me about this and other similar long term individual endeavors and I think it is spot on.

So to play devil's advocate:

• Are the client's that are paying Sherpas to help them climb Mt Everest selfish?
• Are a group of students from NYC selfish that fly to Africa to help the poor and then travel around, when they have homeless in their own neighborhood that need help?
• Are a group of missionaries selfish that go to Nicaragua for a week and spend 60% of their time in individual prayer and worship and 20% helping the locals?
• Is a long distance runner selfish that breaks a world record on a well known trail, if it is done to raise money for a little known non-profit?

Where do we cross a line between selflessness and selfishness? Or are both always intertwined?

Rambler

 

[Cecilia Walker]

Whilst I look forward with great anticipation to our first Camino next year, it struck me that this was perhaps a rather selfish and self indulgent act?

My wife and i plan to 'take it easy' and not rush the CF. And maybe take a break at the end. So I have planned to take 2 months away from work.

This will cause some 'angst' amongst the team I leave behind to run my business in my absence. But as I said to them today "What if I get run over by a Bus"? This might be a good practice drill !

I want to go. Really want to go! I may enjoy the experience so much that I won't want to come back And that's fine with me too.

But I was just reflecting.....

This IS rather a self indulgent 'journey' isn't it? And do I/we have the right to be so 'selfish'?

Maybe that's what I need to learn on the Camino? My life so far has largely been lived in the service of others........

Whilst I look forward with great anticipation to our first Camino next year, it struck me that this was perhaps a rather selfish and self indulgent act?

My wife and i plan to 'take it easy' and not rush the CF. And maybe take a break at the end. So I have planned to take 2 months away from work.

This will cause some 'angst' amongst the team I leave behind to run my business in my absence. But as I said to them today "What if I get run over by a Bus"? This might be a good practice drill !

I want to go. Really want to go! I may enjoy the experience so much that I won't want to come back And that's fine with me too.

But I was just reflecting.....

This IS rather a self indulgent 'journey' isn't it? And do I/we have the right to be so 'selfish'?

Maybe that's what I need to learn on the Camino? My life so far has largely been lived in the service of others........

I have just returned from 10 days on the Camino Frances. I am a youthful 59 and like you have spent my life giving to others(mother/wife/teacher)
The beauty of the Camino without wishing to sound too 'cheesy' is that it will give you what you need!
Forget work-it will still be there upon your return. You will meet lots of great people, ache in places you didn't know you could ache, see a different culture and eat lovely food and see a part of the world that is different. Once I got into the rhythm of walk/unpack/wash clothes/shower/have a cup of tea/chillout I was hooked. So be selfish. You don't know where it may take you!!!Cecilia

 

[Deacon Harbey Santiago]

A brother deacon and I, are taking on the Camino this coming September. Our first Camino. Although we will leave wife, children, friends and our faith community for a little while, they will be with us every step of the way. We will pray for them and hopefully bring their petitions to the great apostle personally. We hope to share this love with others, in the spirit of true "Peregrinos". In this spirit we will make new friendships, support each other and maybe lighten the weigh of some other Peregrinos we might encounter on the road. For us the Camino will not be an act of selfishness but of love.

Buen Camino,

"Viva Cristo Rey!!"
Camino bound Sept 2014!
Deacon Harbey Santiago

 

[Tia Valeria]

Thanks for these responses. Of this I'm sure:

1. We are certainly going.
2. I feel very strongly it is something I at least need to do.
3. I will be 'unplugged' except for an emergency number I will give to one of my team as I want to 'lose' myself totally to the Camino.

I was just reflecting... and thinking that it is actually a bit self indulgent.

There comes a time when we all need space for reflection and growth and your absence will give your employees also the opportunity to grow their skills. The emergency number is good back-up.
Jesus said 'love your neighbour as you love yourself' - many forget that they need to accept and love (care) for themselves as well as others.
Buen Camino

 

[Kitsambler]

By all means, go. Something is calling you. Something has opened you to possibilities. There is no way to find the wisdom that is waiting for you, except the journey.

 

[Susan hopes]

I can't imagine not doing it together, but I also realise it will make it harder! At least if we 'change' through walking the Camino, we'll both change.
Wouldn't it be awful to come back home a 'changed man' to a partner that could not understand why you changed, or what drove the change?

My beloved spouse will not be going with me, and I know that being without him for 7-8 weeks will be the worst part of the journey. But this is his choice too - he has said categorically he has no wish to walk the Camino and he is proud of me for going. It would be horribly selfish if I tried to force him to accompany me for my own comfort. We both have enough faith and love for each other to embrace the changes we will both make during our separation. But oh, how I will miss him.

 

[ksam]

I can't imagine not doing it together, but I also realise it will make it harder! At least if we 'change' through walking the Camino, we'll both change.
Wouldn't it be awful to come back home a 'changed man' to a partner that could not understand why you changed, or what drove the change?

Some of us would never ever walk if that were the case. Or never as long as we may feel called to or driven too! If I'd let family "dictate" when...I would still be waiting. GO!! Enjoy! Come back refreshed and renewed and most likely a much improved version of yourself. The best self you can be.

One of my DIL was less than happy with my choice to leave shortly after the birth of her first baby (my first grand too!). I had to sort of sit her down for a chat after receiving a "scolding" about leaving them "alone" post birth, and explain it from my point of view. I'd already waited nearly 25 years to walk. I was between jobs. There was another grandbaby in the wings. This one has no other "extended" family. Which has meant I babysit and am "all" for her and her sister. The one who "complained" (and I truly don't mean to imply she isn't a lovely and giving and kind young woman...she IS!) has lots and lots of siblings all of whom live nearby and are even trained nurses etc. SO she has LOTS of help and was anything but alone when I went away to walk the Frances in "11. After we talked and I explained it from my perspective, I think she saw that she got a better grandmom and MIL in the end, by my going than what she would have ever gotten from my staying home.

My spouse, whom I've sometimes referred to as Raymond the Reluctant, walks with me. Sometimes. However it is almost always an effort to get him out there. And always a shorter distance than I'm up for both physically and mentally. In this department we are a screamingly funnily mismatched! So...We have a walk together...then I go do my own thing which is usually much much..much longer!! I viewed the Pyrenees as a MUST do. He views them as a MUST avoid! So that's how we manage our differences.

There will always be some who view going away as selfish. Walk anyway.

 

[Annie Little]

I was to walk last year but cancelled …. had booked flights …. to stay home and help my daughter with new born ( she did not ask me to but was grateful ) it took a lot of deliberation on my part…… now the "cherub" is one yr old and I have provided I think a lot of support and help …… I am again torn as to whether to walk this year as now I am attached to the cherub and my daughter appreciates the support and that is not to mention work commitments.

However, I lost myself for very many years in my previous marriage and raising of children….. so much so that I got to a stage that I no longer knew myself or what I wanted or who I was….. it took a long time to know myself again . I do not want that to happen again because by depleting myself I cannot offer a complete ME to anyone . So I will walk maybe with heavy heart at the start but will come back with a full heart ready to give again to family, friends and work commitments….

 

[ksam]

I was to walk last year but cancelled …. So I will walk maybe with heavy heart at the start but will come back with a full heart ready to give again to family, friends and work commitments….

Think of the stories you will be able to tell the little one!! And she/he will be able to say with pride, "My gran can walk 800km!" You'll give her/him something to aspire to! Go Grandmom!!

 

[Annie Little]

Ohhh dear NEVER utter the G word in my presence ………. she calls me Annie ….. I am toooo Young to be a G

 

[Annie Little]

It is getting wintery here now…. well we dont have a true winter ….we lucky sods….. and as I sip my Merlo after work… I wonder if I can get in shape for this trip ( I am not a novice .. have done other walks just not recently ) … But I think better to go than not go no matter what….. I have had other great experiences I thought beyond me …. and am here to tell the tail…….. I better get in quick and press the button…. all else will work out.

I have a problem with the inevitable question " why are you walking?" …. I hope not to be asked….. I dont know !…. Likely answers are because I can still walk so why not; I want to eat chocolate croissantes every day and not feel guilty; I don't need a reason; I dont want to live a scared life so I put myself outside my comfort zone as much as possible; I want to be out in the open day after day after day ; I want to replenish my spirit…..; I dont want to explain myself !