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Shoe Recommendations for Supination and High Arches

april_pdx

purple-haired peregrina from Portland
Time of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances, April/May of 2023!
I've been doing my training walks (mostly to and from work, which is 2 miles each way; with a longer and hillier walk on the weekend) in La Sportiva Ultra Raptors.

And I supinate so much that in less than three hundred miles, I've worn the tread on the outside edge down enough to feel it while standing in them.

Also, after about five miles, my feet ache, especially my heels.

Like a lot of supinators, I have high arches. Normally, popping Birkenstock cork arch support orthotics into squishy shoes is enough to make me happy, but it's just not cutting it.

I'm sort of at a loss about what to try. I know Hoka makes super-squishy shoes that a lot of people love, but I'm worried that I'm just going to compress down the outside edge's foam in a couple hundred miles...and then start rolling my ankles.

Which is why I don't wear trail runners. I was a mail carrier, ten years ago, for a year and a half, walking up to ten miles a day. Wearing trail runners meant I rolled my ankle, which is incredibly painful. So given a choice between wearing trail runners and an eventual ankle brace, vs wearing shoes with some ankle support, I'm going to take the ankle support. That said: I am open to suggestions from other people with the same foot/ankle issues, if you've found something that works.

Anyway.

The tl:dr: I'm looking for shoe recommendations, specifically from people who also supinate/have high arches/tend to roll their ankles. I wear about a US women's 7.5.
 
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I've been doing my training walks (mostly to and from work, which is 2 miles each way; with a longer and hillier walk on the weekend) in La Sportiva Ultra Raptors.

And I supinate so much that in less than three hundred miles, I've worn the tread on the outside edge down enough to feel it while standing in them.

Also, after about five miles, my feet ache, especially my heels.

Like a lot of supinators, I have high arches. Normally, popping Birkenstock cork arch support orthotics into squishy shoes is enough to make me happy, but it's just not cutting it.

I'm sort of at a loss about what to try. I know Hoka makes super-squishy shoes that a lot of people love, but I'm worried that I'm just going to compress down the outside edge's foam in a couple hundred miles...and then start rolling my ankles.

Which is why I don't wear trail runners. I was a mail carrier, ten years ago, for a year and a half, walking up to ten miles a day. Wearing trail runners meant I rolled my ankle, which is incredibly painful. So given a choice between wearing trail runners and an eventual ankle brace, vs wearing shoes with some ankle support, I'm going to take the ankle support. That said: I am open to suggestions from other people with the same foot/ankle issues, if you've found something that works.

Anyway.

The tl:dr: I'm looking for shoe recommendations, specifically from people who also supinate/have high arches/tend to roll their ankles. I wear about a US women's 7.5.
I have similar issues, high arches, wearing down the outsides of my shoes. My feet are so flexible, that I can keep my inside ankles together, and have the soles of my feet touching each other. Flexible shoes aren't a good option for me.
I have a podiatrist and a favourite shoes specialist.
The podiatrist builds up the outsides of the custom insoles slightly and I go for a neutral shoe.
Its worth it to talk with the experts.
 
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High arches too. Together with hallux valgus.
Yes, please visit a podiatrist. It made all the difference for me when I got the custommade insoles.
Afterwards I went to a decent outdoorstore and received excellent advice on which shoes.
I only wear Hanwag midcut walkingboots.
 
First - support the idea of seeing a podiatrist. It is always the safest place to start.

Now to my experience, I have walked on the camino three times. Two times in salomon and one time in hooka. I find all of these "to soft" for me. In my everyday life I literally only use Gaitline shoes (last 4-5 years). I have thought of walking the camino in them before but it is first now they have come out with an upper that I think is light enough for the Spanish weather. So, I will actually be walking in them next time. These are quite expensive but there are often sales. Maybe something to look into?

 
I've been doing my training walks (mostly to and from work, which is 2 miles each way; with a longer and hillier walk on the weekend) in La Sportiva Ultra Raptors.

And I supinate so much that in less than three hundred miles, I've worn the tread on the outside edge down enough to feel it while standing in them.

Also, after about five miles, my feet ache, especially my heels.

Like a lot of supinators, I have high arches. Normally, popping Birkenstock cork arch support orthotics into squishy shoes is enough to make me happy, but it's just not cutting it.

I'm sort of at a loss about what to try. I know Hoka makes super-squishy shoes that a lot of people love, but I'm worried that I'm just going to compress down the outside edge's foam in a couple hundred miles...and then start rolling my ankles.

Which is why I don't wear trail runners. I was a mail carrier, ten years ago, for a year and a half, walking up to ten miles a day. Wearing trail runners meant I rolled my ankle, which is incredibly painful. So given a choice between wearing trail runners and an eventual ankle brace, vs wearing shoes with some ankle support, I'm going to take the ankle support. That said: I am open to suggestions from other people with the same foot/ankle issues, if you've found something that works.

Anyway.

The tl:dr: I'm looking for shoe recommendations, specifically from people who also supinate/have high arches/tend to roll their ankles. I wear about a US women's 7.5.
Supinator here, with a torn and unrepaired ankle ligament. I've also used La Sportivas on the VF but got nasty blisters. I switched to Nike Trail Runners (Terra Kigers), with decent results on a. couple of trips and then just recently, got on the Hoka SpeedGoat 5 bandwagon. It's the first time I've ever hiked with just one small blister. I'm not a huge fan of the squishy bottom but they have 250 miles on them from the VP this fall so I'll probably finish them out on the next trip. Not my winter shoes, by the way. I use Scarpa hiking boots in the snow and Salewa goretex Alpin Rose ultra light boots in shoulder season rain/chilly weather. Of all those, the Salewas are my favorites. Such an individual thing so wish you the best in making your feet happy!
 
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Supinator, and injured one arch ( tibialis).Very wide footed, narrow heel.
I wear a neutral Hoka hiking boot with an orthotic, or a Hoka Clifton 8. They may not last the full 400 miles for cushion, but I move very comfortably.
 
....... are expensive but well worth it to me.
On a close tangent to this thread, I find this applies to a few things for a Camino, noting that we all seem to have a different understanding of expensive vs excessive frugality in the context of the overall Camino experience.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
This is a bit nuanced, but yes.
But I think that getting footwear that encourages me to walk daily at home,
I have 4 identical pairs of my "Camino" Keens, 2 for daily walkers at home, needing replacement soon, and another 2 pairs new in my Camino box, 1 for the next pilgrimage about to be worn-in. Perhaps wear in both and select the most comfortable pair 😊. And this approach involves no net additional expense for shoes.
 
On a close tangent to this thread, I find this applies to a few things for a Camino, noting that we all seem to have a different understanding of expensive vs excessive frugality in the context of the overall Camino experience.
Very true.

The main thing making me groan about the idea of seeing a podiatrist (vs just finding a better over-the-counter shoe/insole combo) is that I paid out of pocket for a bunch of physical therapy already, so adding another big expense when I leave in 98 days is making me wince, especially since, knowing my healthcare, I will in fact have to pay out of pocket again.

(I paid for PT myself because my healthcare basically said I'd need a referral to get it covered and then there was a wait of three months to go to one of their approved places. And it wasn't even guaranteed to be covered, since I wasn't injured. Meanwhile if I was willing to pay out of pocket, I could get an appointment anywhere I want, and a place near me had an opening within a week. Six appointments of PT basically cost me two weeks' post-tax income, for reference. Worth it. But a huge chunk of money for me.)
 
Yes, this is true. But I think that getting footwear that encourages me to walk daily at home, makes it even more important than equipment that I use only when on the Camino.
This is the part that frustrates me so much--my current shoes/insoles are absolutely fine and pain-free...until I've walked more than five miles in one go. The two miles each way to get to work and back? No problem.
 
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my current shoes/insoles are absolutely fine and pain-free... until I've walked more than five miles in one go.
I'm not sure that is a very strong endorsement. Once I had a stress fracture and I could walk relatively pain free until I got to 5 km! Our feet can adapt to various conditions, up to a point, but I have found that my feet are less and less forgiving as I grow old. I work them hard and am trying to have them last as long as the rest of me does.
 
There are three separate issues that I identified need solving.

1. Adequate ankle support.
2. A shoe that reduces supination
3. Foot discomfort.

1. If worried about ankle injury and want support, the shoe or boot is not the answer. You really do need an ankle brace that is designed to wear inside shoes. A shoe or an mid-height (just above ankle) work best with such a brace. Boots with high tops can provide some support, but they will not act as effective splints to keep injuries from occurring. See additional comment below.

2. For supination/pronation, look for a shoe that is focused on motion control. Most manufacturers will have them. These models will have a 'straight last' rather than the typical 'foot shape'. Hold the shoes upside down that have a straight last and it can be hard telling the right from the left shoe. Filling in the 'cut out' of the narrow part of the 'foot', tremendously reduces supination or pronation.

The shoes will also tend to be 'stiffer' with increased stability (different than motion control), a wider heel and a reinforced heel counter. The midsole will contain materials that are firmer to help counter breakdowns at the outer edges of the shoe. There will also be more support structures build into the shoe to resist breakdown caused by pronation or supination. Also look for shoes rated for heavy individuals.

3. Discomfort in the heel may be due to a mild plantars fasciitis which certain exercises can help control. In the forefoot, a bruising pain is commonly caused by prominent metatarsals, and metatarsal pads that are properly placed on the insole will help provide relief. In a motion control shoe, there are insoles that are very cushiony and can add to whatever cushioning the shoes midsole provides.

Brooks and New Balance are two manufacturers long known to make motion control shoes, but certainly not the only ones in today's marketplace.
--------------------------------

:) Individually held preferences are something which cannot and should not be debated. Folks have a right to make choices based on whatever criteria they believe is important to them. To that end, I want to say that whatever your reason for wanting boots, flip-flops, bare feet, sandals, trail runners, etc. do not feel that you must change your decisions based on what 'everyone else' does. Be comfortable with your choice.

That being said, I think that it is important to look more closely at this issue to provide helpful information for those, who are trying to make informed choices, to consider.

It is not my intention to offend anyone, as I believe that there are times and situations where boots are a reasonable choice to make when hiking, backpacking, or walking. I own and use a pair of Lowa Camino boots in certain seasons and weather conditions in the mountains when backpacking.

However, there a lot of people on this forum looking for answers about footwear and want to make decisions based on what is factual criteria. If you are looking at boots as a footwear choice, ankle protection is not a reason to do so. While boots can provide additional support to the ankle, their effectiveness appears to be no more significant than trail shoes or trail runners when it comes to preventing injuries.

There is a long held belief many share that boots provide ankle protection from injury, not just support. Yet, long term studies and research have shown this is not quite the case. Above ankle boots may provide additional support for ankle structures when carrying loads, for example. However, the issue of protecting an ankle from injuries, as some may argue by citing other studies, prove this IS the case. However, when such studies are carefully examined in order to break out the types of movements engaged in, levels of exerted force with sudden direction changes - like basketball - , weight bearing and loading of lower leg structures, and the type of activity engaged in when injury occurred, such studies have n direct correlation to backpacking or trekking as an activity.

It appears clear that unless there are existing and specific diagnosed medical issues, for the vast majority of individuals the ankle is best protected with exercise and use, where the ankle is required to react to uneven surfaces, exercise, and balancing on one foot in order to build strength and endurance and lessen susceptibility to injurious fatigue.

The only sure and viable ankle support for protection for those with a medically indicated need, are ankle braces which can fit inside of the shoe or boot. Despite anecdotal evidence and subjective opinion to the contrary, research has repeatedly shown that boots by themselves do not provide the level of stiffness and the shear rigidity needed to keep ankles free from injury.

They can, in fact, exacerbate the risk of injury.

A foot snugged up inside a boot is sitting higher off the ground than when in a shoe because a boots' outer and mid-soles are much thicker and built up. Additionally, the outer sole of boots are trimmed closer to shell of the boot, meaning that the outer sole has a fairly narrow profile. Both of these factors have been shown to have a higher risk of the footwear 'rolling' when stepping on an unstable surface or piece of debris like loose rocks or uneven surfaces.

As the boot begins to roll, the boot carries the foot with it, the higher material of the boot above the ankle exerts more force against the foot to make it roll with the boot. That material is not stiff enough to keep from flexing, which means that your ankle is going to start bending as the roll of the boot continues. And because the foot is higher off the ground inside the boot, the ankle can be forced into a more significant bending.

Another factor about boots that helps lead to injury is their weight. The heavier the weight that the foot and lower legs need to lift, the more stress and fatigue the ankles and supporting structures are exposed to. Such weakens the ability of the ankle structures to maintain resiliency.

Trail shoes and trail runners, on the other hand, do the opposite when confronted with the same type of uneven surface or debris. The outer and midsoles are much closer to the ground. They are also wider than the shoe making for a contact point with the ground that is more stable. Their much lighter weight keeps ankle structures from fatiguing.

Now here is the thing researchers found as most significant: A foot in a shoe that is kept a bit loose can compensate, to a large degree, when the shoe starts to roll off of an uneven surface. As the shoe rolls, the shoe tends to slip around the foot. In other words, the shoe moves around the foot for the most part, so the ankle won't immediately bend out of place with the shoe. This allows the wearer of the shoe to have enough time to react to the rolling and twisting shoe to keep the ankle from injurious strain.

Yes, there are people who get ankle injuries in trail shoes and trail runners. But those injuries are less frequent and less severe, on an average, than with a foot encased in an above the ankle hiking boot.

As stated above, there will be any number of folks that, with no predisposing medical conditions, will state anecdotal evidence along the lines that they, or a friend, or other family members, et al, were saved by above the ankle boots. Subjective opinion is like that. :) But objective evidence begs to differ on the best way of protecting ankles and the lower leg structures.
 
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2. For supination/pronation, look for a shoe that is focused on motion control. Most manufacturers will have them. These models will have a 'straight last' rather than the typical 'foot shape'. Hold the shoes upside down that have a straight last and it can be hard telling the right from the left shoe. Filling in the 'cut out' of the narrow part of the 'foot', tremendously reduces supination or pronation.

The shoes will also tend to be 'stiffer' with increased stability (different than motion control), a wider heel and a reinforced heel counter. The midsole will contain materials that are firmer to help counter breakdowns at the outer edges of the shoe. There will also be more support structures build into the shoe to resist breakdown caused by pronation or supination. Also look for shoes rated for heavy individuals.
Huh. I had read in multiple places that shoes for over-pronation were the opposite of what you wanted for supination? Which I admit made sense to me because they'd correct me in the "wrong" direction.

(The irony of looking for boots for heavier people: I am. Small. Lol.)

3. Discomfort in the heel may be due to a mild plantars fasciitis which certain exercises can help control. In the forefoot, a bruising pain is commonly caused by prominent metatarsals, and metatarsal pads that are properly placed on the insole will help provide relief. In a motion control shoe, there are insoles that are very cushiony and can add to whatever cushioning the shoes midsole provides.
I did look up exercises for this, and it turns out at least one is already part of the program my physical therapist gave me (heel lifts). I also got one of those nubby balls for rolling my feet on.

Re: Metatarsal pads: that makes sense.

Re: your essay on ankle support: I hear you. I really do. I know anecdotes are not data. I just know that when I was a mail carrier, walking ten miles a day on varying terrain (and walking fast) (and carrying a lot, albeit in my arms/hip bags, not on my back) I rolled my ankles in Salomon trail runners, and I didn't in the exact same brand's boots. (Hell, I even rolled my ankles once while wearing a brace, I think because the brace was too big!) One of my worst ankle rolls wasn't even on uneven terrain. I literally stepped off someone's porch, landed wrong, and screamed so loud the resident came out to see what happened!

I'm actually going to try the Salomon boots next--I found the ones I bought when I was a mail carrier ten years ago and looked up the current equivalent. In all honesty I feel silly for not trying those first.
 
Huh. I had read in multiple places that shoes for over-pronation were the opposite of what you wanted for supination? Which I admit made sense to me because they'd correct me in the "wrong" direction.

You are correct that supination and pronation are different things; each expresses itself differently in the breakdown of a shoe. Supination causing the outside edge of a shoe to roll over and collapse into a permanent lean, whereas Pronation does the same thing to the inside edge of a shoe.

For supination, built-in corrections are added to different areas of a shoe than where they would be placed for dealing with pronation. But although AREAS of a shoe are reinforced differently for supination than if dealing with pronation, it is also true that many correctional elements will be the same, like a reinforced heel counter or a straighter foot last.

In my post above, when I typed 'pronation/supination' it was not to say they are the same, but that supination/pronation will each exploit a shoe's weakness in design by exerting similar types of stresses.
 
Re: your essay on ankle support: I hear you. I really do. I know anecdotes are not data. I just know that when I was a mail carrier, walking ten miles a day on varying terrain (and walking fast) (and carrying a lot, albeit in my arms/hip bags, not on my back) I rolled my ankles in Salomon trail runners, and I didn't in the exact same brand's boots. (Hell, I even rolled my ankles once while wearing a brace, I think because the brace was too big!) One of my worst ankle rolls wasn't even on uneven terrain. I literally stepped off someone's porch, landed wrong, and screamed so loud the resident came out to see what happened!

The first thing I want to clarify is that there is no criticism from me about anyone's decision to wear boots. As my post mentioned, I wear boots when they are appropriate for winter and early spring seasonal conditions. Additionally, while the issue of protection from injury is the main issue I was focused on, the separate function of support does see an advantage with over ankle boots when carrying heavy loads.

Injuries occur in those using either boots or shoes, with or without ankle splints or braces for distance walking. The issue is not that one type of footwear eliminates all injuries, but that there is relative frequency of injuries by footwear type, and the potential for increased severity of those injuries.

All of that aside, the preference for wearing boots over wearing a trail shoe or a trail runner is the primary factor in deciding what to wear.
 
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