Shoes: waterproof vs breathable. Trail vs pavement on CF

[Manuelrecio]

Looking for advice — I’m walking the CF in October. I’ve been training in a pair of Keen waterproof Targhee IIIs, 17 miles per training hike, mix of all mountain trail, as well as city+mountain trail.

The Keens have been great so far in dry conditions), but I am thinking of switching to La Sportiva Wildcat trail runners (which I think would be much more breathable and better for pavement walking). My concerns regarding the CF that time of year are:

1) how much of the CF is actually dirt/rock trail vs pavement?

2) Keen waterproof shoes seem to not dry out quickly and trap in heat/moisture.

I haven’t had any blisters at all from training hikes in the Keens, and use Injini liners+sock combo.

Anyone had experience with La Sportiva shoes? Thanks for your time!

 

[KinkyOne]

Wow, nowadays they do waterproof shoes???
Damn, should look into that.
But OTOH I think my feet will just drown in them.
Maybe I don't want to know about them

 

[Anamya]

Hi there, Manuel!
The CF is long enough for you to meet a fair amount of both natural roads and pavement, dry days and rain.
So, the choice of shoes must fall on what you fell more comfortable with, and less uncomfortable with in case of adversity.

For you, is it better to have breathble shoes and deal with some rain? Or better have dry shoes and some sweat?

I usually prefer the first case scenario, but each person is different. I have not walked in La Sportiva, as the shape of their shoes do not fit me very well, but they are a pretty decent brand.

Buen Camino!

 

[ranthr]

In my opinion most goretexshoes get wet after ten minutes in heavy rain and are harder to dry, tried a lot of different shoes/boots and the only that did not get sucked wet in rain was a pair of Berghaus light mountain boots. Now I use nongoretex shoes because they are easier to dry up after a wet day.

 

[nidarosa]

There are also goretex ankle gaiters you can use if you want some more protection from the rain without going for a waterproof shoe. My husband loves his goretex mids, I hate wearing mine and my feet overheat after a few minutes. There is a lot of tarmac and other hard surfaces so choose something with a good and supportive sole that suits you.

 

[Manuelrecio]

Hi there, Manuel!
The CF is long enough for you to meet a fair amount of both natural roads and pavement, dry days and rain.
So, the choice of shoes must fall on what you fell more comfortable with, and less uncomfortable with in case of adversity.

For you, is it better to have breathble shoes and deal with some rain? Or better have dry shoes and some sweat?

I usually prefer the first case scenario, but each person is different. I have not walked in La Sportiva, as the shape of their shoes do not fit me very well, but they are a pretty decent brand.

Buen Camino!

Thanks so much Anamya!

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Hi, Manuel and welcome the Forum

This may help you with your considerations, and if it does I am glad it helped. It is a post I have written and posted before. Inevitably, you will go with what is most appealing and seems the best fit for you.

--------------------------------
Water can enter trail shoes or boots through any opening during a rainstorm or while walking through dew-covered grass or pour into it as happens when you walk through puddles or other standing water along the Camino.

There are two potential remedies to this problem, neither of which is effective. First, you can try keeping rain pants over the tops of shoes, so the water runs down the pants past the opening. But this system is uncomfortably hot in warmer and rainy temperatures, and it offers no protection for puddles or having to cross water runoffs on the pathway.

Or you can try using a shoe with a waterproof gaiter or some other waterproof cobbles -- like thick plastic bags. I have not seen a gaiter or other waterproof type accessory that would both keep the water out, and keep the feet dry.

“Waterproof” shoes fail is because the materials simply don’t work over the near and long term. Lightweight, leather and fabric trail boots, for example, where some manufacturers have tried treating with a coating, don’t last. It also keeps sweat in the shoe and your feet get soaked in sweat. Fairly quickly, coatings break down and will no longer be waterproof.

When I’ve tested so-called waterproof / breathable fabrics in shoes for various manufacturers, their actual performance never matched what was claimed. My reports to their QA departments have always reflected these weaknesses as found during testing.

Waterproof/breathable membranes, like Goretex, are only marginally breathable—water vapor from perspiration does not pass through the fabric as efficiently as is claimed. So on warm days the experience of having sweat being trapped in the shoe is common. Combined with the fact that the fabric waterproofing is quickly damaged by dirt, sweat, grime, and abrasion and it’s only a matter of time before exterior moisture begins penetrating the fabric and allowing feet to get wet.

That’s why serious trekkers and backpackers no longer go to great lengths to keep feet dry. They accept that when the weather is wet, feet will also get wet. Even the US military uses footwear for wet conditions which is not waterproof. The strategy is how to minimize any problems when feet are wet.

When I have asked why someone considering a footwear purchase why they want waterproof shoes, sometimes I will get looked at as if I had spaghetti sticking out of my nose. Usually the answer is along the lines that they think their feet will stay dry, and that having wet feet is akin to getting into horrible trouble.

This post is meant to help inform and give a different line of thought and reasoning.

I like to have dry feet. I always try to avoid wet feet. I have tried many ways to keep my feet dry:

1. “Waterproof” shoes, which, as I’ve said, don’t work well.

2. “Waterproof” socks, which don’t work for similar reasons.

3. Wearing multiple pairs of socks, which eventually all get wet.

4. Multiple pairs of shoes, which eventually all get wet too.

Since keeping my feet dry has never worked in very wet conditions, I decided to develop effective strategies so that the bad things that could occur to my wet feet when walking, are either waaaaaay minimized or eliminated. Some of these lessons I learned while in Vietnam…. Like the fact that our boots had fabric tops and numerous holes in the thin leather bottom portions so that water drained out quickly and never sat in the boots.

What are the bad things?

1. Maceration, or pruning, where the skin’s outer layer absorbs and gets “soggy” from moisture. The skin gets sore and extremely soft which makes it more prone to blistering and developing other problems.

2. Cracking of the skin when it dries. The natural moisture and oiliness of the skin is gone. The severity depends on how much stress the skin is exposed to after it is dried out.

So, what does work? For me, if I am going to be walking or backpacking in wet weather:

1. Apply a good coating of salve or balm to my feet before putting on socks and shoes. This helps protect from external moisture.

2. Wear non-waterproof shoes, which drain and dry out quickly. This minimizes the amount of puddling in the shoe that bathes the feet in moisture. Modern trail shoes have nice open mesh fabric which is terrific for draining water.

3. Non-waterproof shoes will also eliminate moisture from sweaty feet. Remember, it doesn’t matter what the source of the moisture is that feet are exposed to; rain or sweat, each can cause the same problems.

4. Wear thin, light-cushioned merino wool socks, which don’t absorb as much water as thicker socks. Merino wool will also keep wet feet warm unless the weather is winter-cold.

5. Take off my shoes and socks to let my feet air dry during any mid-day rest stop that will be longer than 20 minutes. During that time, I will wring out any excess moisture from the socks, but I will not put on either of my dry pairs (I take three). I will also reapply a good amount of balm or salve to my feet to help keep them from becoming macerated.

6. Apply a salve or ointment to the bottoms of my feet when I have stopped for the day both before and after I shower.

7. Carry an extra pair of insoles. These are lightweight and will be the barrier between your wet footwear and your dry socks when you are done for the day and if your shoes are a bit damp come morning.

8. I found that at days end, I can remove the wet insoles and use absorbent paper or toweling to sop up as much moisture as is possible while I am showering and dealing with end of the day chores. Then, when I get ready to go to dinner or wander around town, I put on a pair of dry Merino wool socks, insert the extra pair of dry insoles into my shoes, and put the shoes back on to walk around in. Within a couple of hours, the shoes are mostly dry.

9. At bedtime, I remove the insoles and stuff absorbent material into the shoes to continue the drying out process during the night.

10. Apply more salve or ointment and wear dry and warm socks at night, to give my feet 8-9 hours of recovery time.

 

[KinkyOne]

Listen to the man!
I've had my time in mountains (as climber) in all conditions and on Caminos, wet or hot and I do exactly what Dave wrote (except for balm)!
No such thing as waterproof shoes, boots, socks etc. It's just a commercial hoax!

 

[jmcarp]

Looking for advice — I’m walking the CF in October...My concerns regarding the CF that time of year are:

1) how much of the CF is actually dirt/rock trail vs pavement?

If you have the Brierley guidebook, each of the stage maps has a breakdown of the distance/percentage of that stage is "Path/Track", "Quiet Road", or "Main Road". In addition, the trail surface for each of those categories is color-coded. Be prepared, however, for some variation due to temporary re-routes, etc. I haven't added up all the stages, but my recollection is that at least 75 percent of the CF is on natural surface trails, improved gravel trails, or quiet gravel farm lanes with very little vehicular traffic.

 

[KJFSophie]

I walked in the same Keens as you on my second camino ( Ahnu Sugarpine Low Cuts on first that fastly became too snug ). While the keens fit okay, I found the tread to wear early , or at least feel as if the padding was completely gone. We encountered lots and lots of saturating rain, and as others have stated, the Keens did not dry overnight ( may have dried better in full sun, but with torrential downpours for days, there was no sun and not a newspaper to be found to stuff the shoe ) ...I did find and was super comfortable in Oboz Low-cut Sawtooth ( non waterproofed ) ...lighter weight, great wide toe box like the Keens, great padding that felt cushy throughout Italy, breathable, durable, and dried quickly...even had to scrub and hose as we encountered mudslides on many many days. You might give Oboz a try if your fit was good with Keens. I've a new pair coming with me this fall. Good luck!

 

[Manuelrecio]

Hi, Manuel and welcome the Forum

This may help you with your considerations, and if it does I am glad it helped. It is a post I have written and posted before. Inevitably, you will go with what is most appealing and seems the best fit for you.

--------------------------------
Water can enter trail shoes or boots through any opening during a rainstorm or while walking through dew-covered grass or pour into it as happens when you walk through puddles or other standing water along the Camino.

There are two potential remedies to this problem, neither of which is effective. First, you can try keeping rain pants over the tops of shoes, so the water runs down the pants past the opening. But this system is uncomfortably hot in warmer and rainy temperatures, and it offers no protection for puddles or having to cross water runoffs on the pathway.

Or you can try using a shoe with a waterproof gaiter or some other waterproof cobbles -- like thick plastic bags. I have not seen a gaiter or other waterproof type accessory that would both keep the water out, and keep the feet dry.

“Waterproof” shoes fail is because the materials simply don’t work over the near and long term. Lightweight, leather and fabric trail boots, for example, where some manufacturers have tried treating with a coating, don’t last. It also keeps sweat in the shoe and your feet get soaked in sweat. Fairly quickly, coatings break down and will no longer be waterproof.

When I’ve tested so-called waterproof / breathable fabrics in shoes for various manufacturers, their actual performance never matched what was claimed. My reports to their QA departments have always reflected these weaknesses as found during testing.

Waterproof/breathable membranes, like Goretex, are only marginally breathable—water vapor from perspiration does not pass through the fabric as efficiently as is claimed. So on warm days the experience of having sweat being trapped in the shoe is common. Combined with the fact that the fabric waterproofing is quickly damaged by dirt, sweat, grime, and abrasion and it’s only a matter of time before exterior moisture begins penetrating the fabric and allowing feet to get wet.

That’s why serious trekkers and backpackers no longer go to great lengths to keep feet dry. They accept that when the weather is wet, feet will also get wet. Even the US military uses footwear for wet conditions which is not waterproof. The strategy is how to minimize any problems when feet are wet.

When I have asked why someone considering a footwear purchase why they want waterproof shoes, sometimes I will get looked at as if I had spaghetti sticking out of my nose. Usually the answer is along the lines that they think their feet will stay dry, and that having wet feet is akin to getting into horrible trouble.

This post is meant to help inform and give a different line of thought and reasoning.

I like to have dry feet. I always try to avoid wet feet. I have tried many ways to keep my feet dry:

1. “Waterproof” shoes, which, as I’ve said, don’t work well.

2. “Waterproof” socks, which don’t work for similar reasons.

3. Wearing multiple pairs of socks, which eventually all get wet.

4. Multiple pairs of shoes, which eventually all get wet too.

Since keeping my feet dry has never worked in very wet conditions, I decided to develop effective strategies so that the bad things that could occur to my wet feet when walking, are either waaaaaay minimized or eliminated. Some of these lessons I learned while in Vietnam…. Like the fact that our boots had fabric tops and numerous holes in the thin leather bottom portions so that water drained out quickly and never sat in the boots.

What are the bad things?

1. Maceration, or pruning, where the skin’s outer layer absorbs and gets “soggy” from moisture. The skin gets sore and extremely soft which makes it more prone to blistering and developing other problems.

2. Cracking of the skin when it dries. The natural moisture and oiliness of the skin is gone. The severity depends on how much stress the skin is exposed to after it is dried out.

So, what does work? For me, if I am going to be walking or backpacking in wet weather:

1. Apply a good coating of salve or balm to my feet before putting on socks and shoes. This helps protect from external moisture.

2. Wear non-waterproof shoes, which drain and dry out quickly. This minimizes the amount of puddling in the shoe that bathes the feet in moisture. Modern trail shoes have nice open mesh fabric which is terrific for draining water.

3. Non-waterproof shoes will also eliminate moisture from sweaty feet. Remember, it doesn’t matter what the source of the moisture is that feet are exposed to; rain or sweat, each can cause the same problems.

4. Wear thin, light-cushioned merino wool socks, which don’t absorb as much water as thicker socks. Merino wool will also keep wet feet warm unless the weather is winter-cold.

5. Take off my shoes and socks to let my feet air dry during any mid-day rest stop that will be longer than 20 minutes. During that time, I will wring out any excess moisture from the socks, but I will not put on either of my dry pairs (I take three). I will also reapply a good amount of balm or salve to my feet to help keep them from becoming macerated.

6. Apply a salve or ointment to the bottoms of my feet when I have stopped for the day both before and after I shower.

7. Carry an extra pair of insoles. These are lightweight and will be the barrier between your wet footwear and your dry socks when you are done for the day and if your shoes are a bit damp come morning.

8. I found that at days end, I can remove the wet insoles and use absorbent paper or toweling to sop up as much moisture as is possible while I am showering and dealing with end of the day chores. Then, when I get ready to go to dinner or wander around town, I put on a pair of dry Merino wool socks, insert the extra pair of dry insoles into my shoes, and put the shoes back on to walk around in. Within a couple of hours, the shoes are mostly dry.

9. At bedtime, I remove the insoles and stuff absorbent material into the shoes to continue the drying out process during the night.

10. Apply more salve or ointment and wear dry and warm socks at night, to give my feet 8-9 hours of recovery time.

: 67185"]Hi, Manuel and welcome the Forum

This may help you with your considerations, and if it does I am glad it helped. It is a post I have written and posted before. Inevitably, you will go with what is most appealing and seems the best fit for you.

--------------------------------
Water can enter trail shoes or boots through any opening during a rainstorm or while walking through dew-covered grass or pour into it as happens when you walk through puddles or other standing water along the Camino.

There are two potential remedies to this problem, neither of which is effective. First, you can try keeping rain pants over the tops of shoes, so the water runs down the pants past the opening. But this system is uncomfortably hot in warmer and rainy temperatures, and it offers no protection for puddles or having to cross water runoffs on the pathway.

Or you can try using a shoe with a waterproof gaiter or some other waterproof cobbles -- like thick plastic bags. I have not seen a gaiter or other waterproof type accessory that would both keep the water out, and keep the feet dry.

“Waterproof” shoes fail is because the materials simply don’t work over the near and long term. Lightweight, leather and fabric trail boots, for example, where some manufacturers have tried treating with a coating, don’t last. It also keeps sweat in the shoe and your feet get soaked in sweat. Fairly quickly, coatings break down and will no longer be waterproof.

When I’ve tested so-called waterproof / breathable fabrics in shoes for various manufacturers, their actual performance never matched what was claimed. My reports to their QA departments have always reflected these weaknesses as found during testing.

Waterproof/breathable membranes, like Goretex, are only marginally breathable—water vapor from perspiration does not pass through the fabric as efficiently as is claimed. So on warm days the experience of having sweat being trapped in the shoe is common. Combined with the fact that the fabric waterproofing is quickly damaged by dirt, sweat, grime, and abrasion and it’s only a matter of time before exterior moisture begins penetrating the fabric and allowing feet to get wet.

That’s why serious trekkers and backpackers no longer go to great lengths to keep feet dry. They accept that when the weather is wet, feet will also get wet. Even the US military uses footwear for wet conditions which is not waterproof. The strategy is how to minimize any problems when feet are wet.

When I have asked why someone considering a footwear purchase why they want waterproof shoes, sometimes I will get looked at as if I had spaghetti sticking out of my nose. Usually the answer is along the lines that they think their feet will stay dry, and that having wet feet is akin to getting into horrible trouble.

This post is meant to help inform and give a different line of thought and reasoning.

I like to have dry feet. I always try to avoid wet feet. I have tried many ways to keep my feet dry:

1. “Waterproof” shoes, which, as I’ve said, don’t work well.

2. “Waterproof” socks, which don’t work for similar reasons.

3. Wearing multiple pairs of socks, which eventually all get wet.

4. Multiple pairs of shoes, which eventually all get wet too.

Since keeping my feet dry has never worked in very wet conditions, I decided to develop effective strategies so that the bad things that could occur to my wet feet when walking, are either waaaaaay minimized or eliminated. Some of these lessons I learned while in Vietnam…. Like the fact that our boots had fabric tops and numerous holes in the thin leather bottom portions so that water drained out quickly and never sat in the boots.

What are the bad things?

1. Maceration, or pruning, where the skin’s outer layer absorbs and gets “soggy” from moisture. The skin gets sore and extremely soft which makes it more prone to blistering and developing other problems.

2. Cracking of the skin when it dries. The natural moisture and oiliness of the skin is gone. The severity depends on how much stress the skin is exposed to after it is dried out.

So, what does work? For me, if I am going to be walking or backpacking in wet weather:

1. Apply a good coating of salve or balm to my feet before putting on socks and shoes. This helps protect from external moisture.

2. Wear non-waterproof shoes, which drain and dry out quickly. This minimizes the amount of puddling in the shoe that bathes the feet in moisture. Modern trail shoes have nice open mesh fabric which is terrific for draining water.

3. Non-waterproof shoes will also eliminate moisture from sweaty feet. Remember, it doesn’t matter what the source of the moisture is that feet are exposed to; rain or sweat, each can cause the same problems.

4. Wear thin, light-cushioned merino wool socks, which don’t absorb as much water as thicker socks. Merino wool will also keep wet feet warm unless the weather is winter-cold.

5. Take off my shoes and socks to let my feet air dry during any mid-day rest stop that will be longer than 20 minutes. During that time, I will wring out any excess moisture from the socks, but I will not put on either of my dry pairs (I take three). I will also reapply a good amount of balm or salve to my feet to help keep them from becoming macerated.

6. Apply a salve or ointment to the bottoms of my feet when I have stopped for the day both before and after I shower.

7. Carry an extra pair of insoles. These are lightweight and will be the barrier between your wet footwear and your dry socks when you are done for the day and if your shoes are a bit damp come morning.

8. I found that at days end, I can remove the wet insoles and use absorbent paper or toweling to sop up as much moisture as is possible while I am showering and dealing with end of the day chores. Then, when I get ready to go to dinner

Hi, Manuel and welcome the Forum

This may help you with your considerations, and if it does I am glad it helped. It is a post I have written and posted before. Inevitably, you will go with what is most appealing and seems the best fit for you.

--------------------------------
Water can enter trail shoes or boots through any opening during a rainstorm or while walking through dew-covered grass or pour into it as happens when you walk through puddles or other standing water along the Camino.

There are two potential remedies to this problem, neither of which is effective. First, you can try keeping rain pants over the tops of shoes, so the water runs down the pants past the opening. But this system is uncomfortably hot in warmer and rainy temperatures, and it offers no protection for puddles or having to cross water runoffs on the pathway.

Or you can try using a shoe with a waterproof gaiter or some other waterproof cobbles -- like thick plastic bags. I have not seen a gaiter or other waterproof type accessory that would both keep the water out, and keep the feet dry.

“Waterproof” shoes fail is because the materials simply don’t work over the near and long term. Lightweight, leather and fabric trail boots, for example, where some manufacturers have tried treating with a coating, don’t last. It also keeps sweat in the shoe and your feet get soaked in sweat. Fairly quickly, coatings break down and will no longer be waterproof.

When I’ve tested so-called waterproof / breathable fabrics in shoes for various manufacturers, their actual performance never matched what was claimed. My reports to their QA departments have always reflected these weaknesses as found during testing.

Waterproof/breathable membranes, like Goretex, are only marginally breathable—water vapor from perspiration does not pass through the fabric as efficiently as is claimed. So on warm days the experience of having sweat being trapped in the shoe is common. Combined with the fact that the fabric waterproofing is quickly damaged by dirt, sweat, grime, and abrasion and it’s only a matter of time before exterior moisture begins penetrating the fabric and allowing feet to get wet.

That’s why serious trekkers and backpackers no longer go to great lengths to keep feet dry. They accept that when the weather is wet, feet will also get wet. Even the US military uses footwear for wet conditions which is not waterproof. The strategy is how to minimize any problems when feet are wet.

When I have asked why someone considering a footwear purchase why they want waterproof shoes, sometimes I will get looked at as if I had spaghetti sticking out of my nose. Usually the answer is along the lines that they think their feet will stay dry, and that having wet feet is akin to getting into horrible trouble.

This post is meant to help inform and give a different line of thought and reasoning.

I like to have dry feet. I always try to avoid wet feet. I have tried many ways to keep my feet dry:

1. “Waterproof” shoes, which, as I’ve said, don’t work well.

2. “Waterproof” socks, which don’t work for similar reasons.

3. Wearing multiple pairs of socks, which eventually all get wet.

4. Multiple pairs of shoes, which eventually all get wet too.

Since keeping my feet dry has never worked in very wet conditions, I decided to develop effective strategies so that the bad things that could occur to my wet feet when walking, are either waaaaaay minimized or eliminated. Some of these lessons I learned while in Vietnam…. Like the fact that our boots had fabric tops and numerous holes in the thin leather bottom portions so that water drained out quickly and never sat in the boots.

What are the bad things?

1. Maceration, or pruning, where the skin’s outer layer absorbs and gets “soggy” from moisture. The skin gets sore and extremely soft which makes it more prone to blistering and developing other problems.

2. Cracking of the skin when it dries. The natural moisture and oiliness of the skin is gone. The severity depends on how much stress the skin is exposed to after it is dried out.

So, what does work? For me, if I am going to be walking or backpacking in wet weather:

1. Apply a good coating of salve or balm to my feet before putting on socks and shoes. This helps protect from external moisture.

2. Wear non-waterproof shoes, which drain and dry out quickly. This minimizes the amount of puddling in the shoe that bathes the feet in moisture. Modern trail shoes have nice open mesh fabric which is terrific for draining water.

3. Non-waterproof shoes will also eliminate moisture from sweaty feet. Remember, it doesn’t matter what the source of the moisture is that feet are exposed to; rain or sweat, each can cause the same problems.

4. Wear thin, light-cushioned merino wool socks, which don’t absorb as much water as thicker socks. Merino wool will also keep wet feet warm unless the weather is winter-cold.

5. Take off my shoes and socks to let my feet air dry during any mid-day rest stop that will be longer than 20 minutes. During that time, I will wring out any excess moisture from the socks, but I will not put on either of my dry pairs (I take three). I will also reapply a good amount of balm or salve to my feet to help keep them from becoming macerated.

6. Apply a salve or ointment to the bottoms of my feet when I have stopped for the day both before and after I shower.

7. Carry an extra pair of insoles. These are lightweight and will be the barrier between your wet footwear and your dry socks when you are done for the day and if your shoes are a bit damp come morning.

8. I found that at days end, I can remove the wet insoles and use absorbent paper or toweling to sop up as much moisture as is possible while I am showering and dealing with end of the day chores. Then, when I get ready to go to dinner or wander around town, I put on a pair of dry Merino wool socks, insert the extra pair of dry insoles into my shoes, and put the shoes back on to walk around in. Within a couple of hours, the shoes are mostly dry.

9. At bedtime, I remove the insoles and stuff absorbent material into the shoes to continue the drying out process during the night.

10. Apply more salve or ointment and wear dry and warm socks at night, to give my feet 8-9 hours of recovery time.

Fantastic advice! Thank you very much!!

 

[Moonstruck]

Hi, Manuel, I walked half of the CF in a pair of La Sportiva Ultra Raptor and the other half in Wildcat in May. They are very good shoes, breathable and dry quickly. To me, the Raptor provides more support going downhill. If you have ankle problems, this is the shoe to get. Wildcat has wider toe box, good support but not as good as the Raptor. I have narrower feet so the Raptor was perfect. No blisters either. I would definitely buy these shoes again for my next Camino.

 

[BucketBabe]

I was on the Appalachian Trail this past weekend with lots of rain. I've heard tons of good stuff about wide toe box and drainage on the Altra Lone Peaks by the thru hikers. The AT is really wet hiking, usually. I had Oboz Sawtooths on this weekend and also felt, more than ever, their heaviness. This is such an individual decision as all of our feet are unique. I've been working on this issue non stop since April as I am very blister prone. Still, I got a big blister this past weekend (due to lots of ascents/elevation changes) on my L heel.

I believe I've tried about everything including sports glides, vaseline, changing socks every few hours, tons of shoes/boots. The lubrication doesn't help with barriers. Alcohol wipes make the tape stay on. They don't work together. I finally made some major changes in weight - including the weight of my shoes. I tried new insoles and I do like the hiking Superfeet (green/orange).

I've lightened up my pack (ordered an Ula) and will pack even less to minimize weight. I ordered Altra Lone Peaks 3.5 and will try and break them in and will take extra socks because dry feet, pre taping every previous hot spot with J & J cloth medical tape and then mole skinning hot spots seem to be my best ticket so far. If all fails, I'll take more shuttles and take more feet rest. I haven't found any perfect solution as of yet. I'm also going to give hikers wool a try - heard great things about that.

Blisters may be the biggest hurdle for me as they have been with all of my outdoor activities.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I was on the Appalachian Trail this past weekend with lots of rain. I've heard tons of good stuff about wide toe box and drainage on the Altra Lone Peaks by the thru hikers. The AT is really wet hiking, usually. I had Oboz Sawtooths on this weekend and also felt, more than ever, their heaviness. This is such an individual decision as all of our feet are unique. I've been working on this issue non stop since April as I am very blister prone. Still, I got a big blister this past weekend (due to lots of ascents/elevation changes) on my L heel.

I believe I've tried about everything including sports glides, vaseline, changing socks every few hours, tons of shoes/boots. The lubrication doesn't help with barriers. Alcohol wipes make the tape stay on. They don't work together. I finally made some major changes in weight - including the weight of my shoes. I tried new insoles and I do like the hiking Superfeet (green/orange).

I've lightened up my pack (ordered an Ula) and will pack even less to minimize weight. I ordered Altra Lone Peaks 3.5 and will try and break them in and will take extra socks because dry feet, pre taping every previous hot spot with J & J cloth medical tape and then mole skinning hot spots seem to be my best ticket so far. If all fails, I'll take more shuttles and take more feet rest. I haven't found any perfect solution as of yet. I'm also going to give hikers wool a try - heard great things about that.

Blisters may be the biggest hurdle for me as they have been with all of my outdoor activities.

You are on the right track, BB.... Below is a repost of one which I had written and posted earlier. Additionally, A product called ArmaSkin socks may be worth a try. I'll post my gear test below as well.

BTW, which ULA pack did you decide on? I did some gear testing for ULA, and if you have any questions about the product, send me a PM and I'll try to help.

-------------------------

Blister Prevention

Strategies for the prevention of shear force friction and blisters have changed and matured over recent years.

1. A properly fitting shoe. In brief, it needs to be long enough and wide enough to accomodate any insoles, orthotics, metatarsal pads, etc, PLUS the socks that you will be wearing, PLUS the increased pressure on the feet from wearing a loaded pack.
2. Light padded Merino wool sock designed for walking or backpacking, or the same type of sock in a good synthetic blend. A heavy pad on a sock allows potentially more movement against the skin, takes longer to air out, and takes longer to dry when washed.
3. A sock fit that is snug and form fitting to the foot, but not gangrene-inducingly tight. You want the shear force to be between the sock and the interior of the shoe, not the sock and the skin. A snug fitting sock will help to make that happen.
4. Allow the sock to move a bit in the shoe. By keeping the shoes a bit looser on the feet, the sock will take the brunt of the shear force. If a shoe is tied snug, then that forces the foot to move more in the sock, which means the sock and skin are absorbing the shear force. An exception occurs on long downhill grades; the shoes need to be tied tight enough to keep your toes from hitting the front of the shoe which can cause injury and trauma to the nail bed and toe joints.
5. While there are foot lubricants, from Body Glide and Hiker's Goo to plain old vaseline, the have a fairly short viable working span as the material rubs of the skin and is absorbed by the socks. For prophylactic protection from shear force friction, a long lasting barrier is the better option. The placement of tapes, like Leukotape P, or moleskin-type products, if adhered correctly, will last the whole day.
6. To apply tapes and moleskin type products,
   1. Clean off the area of application with a bit of alcohol to remove grease, dirt, and body oils. A bit of regular hand sanitizer works for this, in addition to hand cleansing.
   2. Cut a piece of your chosen barrier material to fit the area you want protected; be sure to cut rounded corners rather than square in order to help the material from rolling up away from the skin.
   3. Apply a thin smear of Tincture of Benzoin to the skin area where the adhesive will stick. This will increase the holding power of the tape or moleskin.
      1. If the tape or moleskin, etc. is going on top of a blistered area, avoid getting the benzoin on the roof area of the blister, and add a thin coating of ointment/vaseline onto the blister roof, avoiding the surrounding skin area. This will allow removal of the product without hurting the blister wound.
   4. Place the barrier on the area, taking care to not handle the adhesive; spend a bit of time rubbing the material to create friction so that the adhesive will heat up and adhere more firmly.
   5. At the end of the day, remove the barrier and use some alcohol to wipe the area that was covered.
      1. Since fungus (athletes foot) and pathogens splash around in showers, shower shoes are not necessarily preventative to one's feet being exposed or infected. It is helpful to use an alcohol or astringent product applied to the feet after showering

--------------------------------------
ArmaSkin Socks

First, let me say that I have no vested interest in Armaskin Socks. I have never been in contact with the company that manufactures the product, nor do I have any wholesale or retail or stock market, etc. connections which will earn me cash if someone purchases this product. Buy them or don’t buy them, curse them or praise them, I Don’t Care.

Conclusion and Bottom Line: When used properly, Armaskin Anti-blister Socks can be effective at preventing blisters.

The Specifics

Background
A lot of forum members know that I am hired by various backpacking gear, footwear, and clothing manufacturers to test their products for quality assurance, usability, and the workability of modifications and prototypes. My reports go to the company that has hired me for their internal use; I do not publish reviews, or test stuff to provide public recommendations.

I decided to post about Armaskins after recently learning of them. I was curious as to the claims made about them. As a Forum member, I know a lot of others might also be interested in the blister prevention claims, too. There are also some participants who have tried them previously and recommend them.

This post is not a recommendation for or against this product. I am providing the information based on experienced observation, and I make no specific claims that my findings will equally apply to anyone else.

Rationale and Motivation to Test Armaskins
I wanted to know if Armaskin Socks effectively implements the known and effective blister prevention strategies which it appears to incorporate. I also wanted to provide more objective information for those who interested in trying Armaskins but are hesitant to do so because of their price point. It is my hope that having additional information will make the price point less of an issue should one really want to give Armaskins a try but are concerned over cost-benefit.

As a gear tester, I felt I have the skills and objectivity to cut through the hyperbole and marketing claims and look at the individual ‘ingredients’ of these sock’s manufacture for their actual effectiveness toward blister prevention.

Armaskin socks have been around for a while. Until recently, I was not aware of them until a Forum contributor posted a bit of information about them. That post intrigued me, so I did a quick online look about the sock; specifically, what is the makeup of the sock that is special or different which functions to prevent blisters.

After a bit of research, and ignoring the glowing marketing testimonials, I felt like the Armaskins deserved a hands-on look. What got my attention was the fact that, unlike other ‘anti-blister’ socks, this sock incorporated stated and proven techniques to either prevent blisters, or to prolong the time for blister formation to occur. Prolonging the time for blisters to form is also important in preventing blister formation, because it allows more time for a person to recognize the formation of irritations and hotspots on the feet so that they can be effectively dealt with.

What is the big boogeyman of blister formation? Shear force friction. In a nutshell, you want to keep the friction causing heat of the shear force between the sock and the shoe, and away from the sock and the skin. Do this and there will be no blistering in 99.9% of all cases.

How does it appear Armaskins accomplish this goal?

• A snug fit of the sock.
• A sock material which reduces the coefficient of friction.
• Providing a material buffer between the shear friction force and the skin of the foot.

Gear Test
The socks are made of a slick feeling synthetic material, with a defined seamed area at the toes and the heel. More on the seams later. Applied to the interior of the sock is a flexible, durable, and grippy rubbery-type compound. It is a silicone-based menu of stuff, but it is inert and is said to be breathable.

There are four basic sock sizes. One picks the Armaskin sock size based on their sizing chart; the sizing chart utilizes your sock size to determine if you need a Small, Medium, Large, or Extra-Large size. As with some others whose review had stated that the Armaskin Chart guide selections were too small, I had to go with a Large, rather than the Medium that the Chart said I needed. I had purchased two pair, one in the size the Chart indicated was my size, and the other was a size larger. I ended up returning the Medium sized sock.

Each of the socks in the pair have a defined shape to them --- when looking at them, it is easy to see which sock is for the right foot and which for the left. I experimented putting them on in the dark, and it was simple for me to feel the shape of each sock, so the proper match would be made to the foot in question.

My technique for putting the sock on was to scrunch the top of the sock down to the toe. Then, once my toes were successfully ensconced, I would roll-tug them up, over the heel and up to final position. I always made additional adjustments to getting things properly aligned. With my foot size, the required sized sock which fit, had the heel location up above the back of my heel onto the lower part of my Achilles tendon. It couldn’t be helped, it was just the way it was.

Important Note: If you are a user of a lubricating medium on your feet to help prevent blisters -- like Body Glide or Vaseline, etc. – you cannot use such things with Armaskin socks; such stuff will make the socks ineffective.

Even with a larger size Armaskin, the fit is very snug. My initial reaction was concern that the amount of compression on my foot would create problems with hours of wear. For me, such turned out not to be the case. I can understand where it would be possible for some folks to find this level of snugness objectionable, and even constricting enough of blood circulation in the foot to cause cramping or other discomforts. In my case, none of those issue appeared.

Once on, the Armaskins do not slip or really move around on the foot. The snugness and the ‘grippy-ness’ keep things in place. This is one of the reasons it is important to have the sock lay smooth on the foot with no lumps or rucks of material; get the sock smooth and it will stay that way.

Here is where the Armaskin Socks are not really a liner sock, or a part of a dual sock system in the traditional sense. With the old-school technique, the traditional use of a thin liner sock is used under a thicker sock as a system to try and prevent blisters. The Armaskin does not need an outer sock to prevent blisters; it only needs the outer sock to protect the Armaskin from premature wear and tear. Thus, it is not a "double-sock liner system".

If one does not care how long their Armaskin Socks will last, you can wear the Armaskin by itself and will still do the job it was designed to do. The Armaskin, by itself, will keep the shear force’s blister-causing friction from the skin on the foot, and keep it between the Armaskin and the shoe where it belongs.

I spent over 160 miles hiking in all sorts of backpacking terrain, under all sorts of backpack weights, using the Armaskin in a variety of shoe and insole combinations, using them with and without an outer sock, and subjected to all kinds of dirt, grit, mud and wet. I never really felt at-risk of getting blisters. One caveat, though, as a full disclosure: It is unusual for me to blister.

That being said, I have gotten blisters before and I do, infrequently, deal with hotspots and recognize the conditions which put me at-risk for developing those hot spots. I took great pains to recreate those kinds of conditions with gusto.

Many users posting reviews have stated that the Armaskins didn’t make their feet warm or hot. All I can say is that my feet did get warmer, sometimes much warmer, than with my usual socks and footwear combination. I typically will wear a single, lightweight and light padded Merino wool sock. Being much warmer wearing a double sock combination with the Armaskin didn’t surprise me, though. I will note that my feet also did become a bit damp from sweat a few times; while the Armaskin may claim to be breathable, that breathability is restricted to the ability of airflow within a shoe. Wearing an outer sock and being in the confines of a shoe means that there must be an overall decrease in the ability of water vapor to escape.

The Armaskins never got ‘funky’ smelling. They washed well, and the washing would ‘renew’ the grippy-ness’ of the socks interior coating. Probably because washing removes body oils, dirt, skin cells, etc. Just be sure to carefully follow the manufacturer’s washing instructions. Because of the Camino application, I washed these Armaskin’s by hand in cool water, with just barely enough soap to get them clean. The soap I used is what I used on Camino. The socks wring out fairly well and do not take overly long to dry. To help preserve the materials and longevity in the socks, I would not dry them in the harshness of direct sunlight… that much UV radiation will affect the synthetic materials, as will the high heat of direct radiant energy. If using a dryer, I would air dry as a preference; or at most, the lowest heat setting possible.

End of the day comfort? I always enjoyed removing the socks and letting my feet out of the snugness factor of the Armaskins. While they were on, though, I never had my attention focused on my feet and I never felt that my feet were distressed at all. Even my persnickety Left Foot – who hates me with its entire being – kept quite about the socks.

Are Armaskin Socks the best method, or the surest method, for blister prevention? In my assessments, no. Armaskins are potentially just one method, among others, which can be effective. As with everything gear related, there can be some downsides, and they are a bit finicky. I don’t think that should keep potential users from trying them out, though.

If someone:

• Uses the socks as directed,
• Takes care of them,
• Does not put absolute trust in them by ignoring the need to stay focused on potential hotspots and other indications of blistering so they can be dealt with before a blister appears ----

--- the Armaskins can work well.

However:
The same principles which Armaskins use to prevent the shear force friction which causes blistering has existed prior to Armaskins. The materials and techniques to achieve this are cheaper to employ, more flexible and adaptable to unique situations by targeting the specific problem areas on the feet, and are easier to obtain if replacement is necessary.

So, for what it’s worth that is my assessment of Armaskins. It is my hope that this informs the group of another tool for potential blister prevention.

 

[BucketBabe]

You are on the right track, BB.... Below is a repost of one which I had written and posted earlier. Additionally, A product called ArmaSkin socks may be worth a try. I'll post my gear test below as well.

BTW, which ULA pack did you decide on? I did some gear testing for ULA, and if you have any questions about the product, send me a PM and I'll try to help.

-------------------------

Blister Prevention

Strategies for the prevention of shear force friction and blisters have changed and matured over recent years.

1. A properly fitting shoe. In brief, it needs to be long enough and wide enough to accomodate any insoles, orthotics, metatarsal pads, etc, PLUS the socks that you will be wearing, PLUS the increased pressure on the feet from wearing a loaded pack.
2. Light padded Merino wool sock designed for walking or backpacking, or the same type of sock in a good synthetic blend. A heavy pad on a sock allows potentially more movement against the skin, takes longer to air out, and takes longer to dry when washed.
3. A sock fit that is snug and form fitting to the foot, but not gangrene-inducingly tight. You want the shear force to be between the sock and the interior of the shoe, not the sock and the skin. A snug fitting sock will help to make that happen.
4. Allow the sock to move a bit in the shoe. By keeping the shoes a bit looser on the feet, the sock will take the brunt of the shear force. If a shoe is tied snug, then that forces the foot to move more in the sock, which means the sock and skin are absorbing the shear force. An exception occurs on long downhill grades; the shoes need to be tied tight enough to keep your toes from hitting the front of the shoe which can cause injury and trauma to the nail bed and toe joints.
5. While there are foot lubricants, from Body Glide and Hiker's Goo to plain old vaseline, the have a fairly short viable working span as the material rubs of the skin and is absorbed by the socks. For prophylactic protection from shear force friction, a long lasting barrier is the better option. The placement of tapes, like Leukotape P, or moleskin-type products, if adhered correctly, will last the whole day.
6. To apply tapes and moleskin type products,
   1. Clean off the area of application with a bit of alcohol to remove grease, dirt, and body oils. A bit of regular hand sanitizer works for this, in addition to hand cleansing.
   2. Cut a piece of your chosen barrier material to fit the area you want protected; be sure to cut rounded corners rather than square in order to help the material from rolling up away from the skin.
   3. Apply a thin smear of Tincture of Benzoin to the skin area where the adhesive will stick. This will increase the holding power of the tape or moleskin.
      1. If the tape or moleskin, etc. is going on top of a blistered area, avoid getting the benzoin on the roof area of the blister, and add a thin coating of ointment/vaseline onto the blister roof, avoiding the surrounding skin area. This will allow removal of the product without hurting the blister wound.
   4. Place the barrier on the area, taking care to not handle the adhesive; spend a bit of time rubbing the material to create friction so that the adhesive will heat up and adhere more firmly.
   5. At the end of the day, remove the barrier and use some alcohol to wipe the area that was covered.
      1. Since fungus (athletes foot) and pathogens splash around in showers, shower shoes are not necessarily preventative to one's feet being exposed or infected. It is helpful to use an alcohol or astringent product applied to the feet after showering

--------------------------------------
ArmaSkin Socks

First, let me say that I have no vested interest in Armaskin Socks. I have never been in contact with the company that manufactures the product, nor do I have any wholesale or retail or stock market, etc. connections which will earn me cash if someone purchases this product. Buy them or don’t buy them, curse them or praise them, I Don’t Care.

Conclusion and Bottom Line: When used properly, Armaskin Anti-blister Socks can be effective at preventing blisters.

The Specifics

Background
A lot of forum members know that I am hired by various backpacking gear, footwear, and clothing manufacturers to test their products for quality assurance, usability, and the workability of modifications and prototypes. My reports go to the company that has hired me for their internal use; I do not publish reviews, or test stuff to provide public recommendations.

I decided to post about Armaskins after recently learning of them. I was curious as to the claims made about them. As a Forum member, I know a lot of others might also be interested in the blister prevention claims, too. There are also some participants who have tried them previously and recommend them.

This post is not a recommendation for or against this product. I am providing the information based on experienced observation, and I make no specific claims that my findings will equally apply to anyone else.

Rationale and Motivation to Test Armaskins
I wanted to know if Armaskin Socks effectively implements the known and effective blister prevention strategies which it appears to incorporate. I also wanted to provide more objective information for those who interested in trying Armaskins but are hesitant to do so because of their price point. It is my hope that having additional information will make the price point less of an issue should one really want to give Armaskins a try but are concerned over cost-benefit.

As a gear tester, I felt I have the skills and objectivity to cut through the hyperbole and marketing claims and look at the individual ‘ingredients’ of these sock’s manufacture for their actual effectiveness toward blister prevention.

Armaskin socks have been around for a while. Until recently, I was not aware of them until a Forum contributor posted a bit of information about them. That post intrigued me, so I did a quick online look about the sock; specifically, what is the makeup of the sock that is special or different which functions to prevent blisters.

After a bit of research, and ignoring the glowing marketing testimonials, I felt like the Armaskins deserved a hands-on look. What got my attention was the fact that, unlike other ‘anti-blister’ socks, this sock incorporated stated and proven techniques to either prevent blisters, or to prolong the time for blister formation to occur. Prolonging the time for blisters to form is also important in preventing blister formation, because it allows more time for a person to recognize the formation of irritations and hotspots on the feet so that they can be effectively dealt with.

What is the big boogeyman of blister formation? Shear force friction. In a nutshell, you want to keep the friction causing heat of the shear force between the sock and the shoe, and away from the sock and the skin. Do this and there will be no blistering in 99.9% of all cases.

How does it appear Armaskins accomplish this goal?

• A snug fit of the sock.
• A sock material which reduces the coefficient of friction.
• Providing a material buffer between the shear friction force and the skin of the foot.

Gear Test
The socks are made of a slick feeling synthetic material, with a defined seamed area at the toes and the heel. More on the seams later. Applied to the interior of the sock is a flexible, durable, and grippy rubbery-type compound. It is a silicone-based menu of stuff, but it is inert and is said to be breathable.

There are four basic sock sizes. One picks the Armaskin sock size based on their sizing chart; the sizing chart utilizes your sock size to determine if you need a Small, Medium, Large, or Extra-Large size. As with some others whose review had stated that the Armaskin Chart guide selections were too small, I had to go with a Large, rather than the Medium that the Chart said I needed. I had purchased two pair, one in the size the Chart indicated was my size, and the other was a size larger. I ended up returning the Medium sized sock.

Each of the socks in the pair have a defined shape to them --- when looking at them, it is easy to see which sock is for the right foot and which for the left. I experimented putting them on in the dark, and it was simple for me to feel the shape of each sock, so the proper match would be made to the foot in question.

My technique for putting the sock on was to scrunch the top of the sock down to the toe. Then, once my toes were successfully ensconced, I would roll-tug them up, over the heel and up to final position. I always made additional adjustments to getting things properly aligned. With my foot size, the required sized sock which fit, had the heel location up above the back of my heel onto the lower part of my Achilles tendon. It couldn’t be helped, it was just the way it was.

Important Note: If you are a user of a lubricating medium on your feet to help prevent blisters -- like Body Glide or Vaseline, etc. – you cannot use such things with Armaskin socks; such stuff will make the socks ineffective.

Even with a larger size Armaskin, the fit is very snug. My initial reaction was concern that the amount of compression on my foot would create problems with hours of wear. For me, such turned out not to be the case. I can understand where it would be possible for some folks to find this level of snugness objectionable, and even constricting enough of blood circulation in the foot to cause cramping or other discomforts. In my case, none of those issue appeared.

Once on, the Armaskins do not slip or really move around on the foot. The snugness and the ‘grippy-ness’ keep things in place. This is one of the reasons it is important to have the sock lay smooth on the foot with no lumps or rucks of material; get the sock smooth and it will stay that way.

Here is where the Armaskin Socks are not really a liner sock, or a part of a dual sock system in the traditional sense. With the old-school technique, the traditional use of a thin liner sock is used under a thicker sock as a system to try and prevent blisters. The Armaskin does not need an outer sock to prevent blisters; it only needs the outer sock to protect the Armaskin from premature wear and tear. Thus, it is not a "double-sock liner system".

If one does not care how long their Armaskin Socks will last, you can wear the Armaskin by itself and will still do the job it was designed to do. The Armaskin, by itself, will keep the shear force’s blister-causing friction from the skin on the foot, and keep it between the Armaskin and the shoe where it belongs.

I spent over 160 miles hiking in all sorts of backpacking terrain, under all sorts of backpack weights, using the Armaskin in a variety of shoe and insole combinations, using them with and without an outer sock, and subjected to all kinds of dirt, grit, mud and wet. I never really felt at-risk of getting blisters. One caveat, though, as a full disclosure: It is unusual for me to blister.

That being said, I have gotten blisters before and I do, infrequently, deal with hotspots and recognize the conditions which put me at-risk for developing those hot spots. I took great pains to recreate those kinds of conditions with gusto.

Many users posting reviews have stated that the Armaskins didn’t make their feet warm or hot. All I can say is that my feet did get warmer, sometimes much warmer, than with my usual socks and footwear combination. I typically will wear a single, lightweight and light padded Merino wool sock. Being much warmer wearing a double sock combination with the Armaskin didn’t surprise me, though. I will note that my feet also did become a bit damp from sweat a few times; while the Armaskin may claim to be breathable, that breathability is restricted to the ability of airflow within a shoe. Wearing an outer sock and being in the confines of a shoe means that there must be an overall decrease in the ability of water vapor to escape.

The Armaskins never got ‘funky’ smelling. They washed well, and the washing would ‘renew’ the grippy-ness’ of the socks interior coating. Probably because washing removes body oils, dirt, skin cells, etc. Just be sure to carefully follow the manufacturer’s washing instructions. Because of the Camino application, I washed these Armaskin’s by hand in cool water, with just barely enough soap to get them clean. The soap I used is what I used on Camino. The socks wring out fairly well and do not take overly long to dry. To help preserve the materials and longevity in the socks, I would not dry them in the harshness of direct sunlight… that much UV radiation will affect the synthetic materials, as will the high heat of direct radiant energy. If using a dryer, I would air dry as a preference; or at most, the lowest heat setting possible.

End of the day comfort? I always enjoyed removing the socks and letting my feet out of the snugness factor of the Armaskins. While they were on, though, I never had my attention focused on my feet and I never felt that my feet were distressed at all. Even my persnickety Left Foot – who hates me with its entire being – kept quite about the socks.

Are Armaskin Socks the best method, or the surest method, for blister prevention? In my assessments, no. Armaskins are potentially just one method, among others, which can be effective. As with everything gear related, there can be some downsides, and they are a bit finicky. I don’t think that should keep potential users from trying them out, though.

If someone:

• Uses the socks as directed,
• Takes care of them,
• Does not put absolute trust in them by ignoring the need to stay focused on potential hotspots and other indications of blistering so they can be dealt with before a blister appears ----

--- the Armaskins can work well.

However:
The same principles which Armaskins use to prevent the shear force friction which causes blistering has existed prior to Armaskins. The materials and techniques to achieve this are cheaper to employ, more flexible and adaptable to unique situations by targeting the specific problem areas on the feet, and are easier to obtain if replacement is necessary.

So, for what it’s worth that is my assessment of Armaskins. It is my hope that this informs the group of another tool for potential blister prevention.

The above is VERY helpful and validating of my efforts. I forgot to add a crucial component to my routine. I wear synthetic Injinji toe socks as an inner layer and wool hiking or wright socks as an external layer. I found Wright socks to be very helpful when running in the past so I just started training with them. Had I not had a healing L heel blister (slightly bothersome but fully prepped) before I started this past 36 miler on the A.T., I'm sure I would have had a lesser beast right now to contend with. However, the wet weather and the "heaviness" of my shoe really made the decision to try the Altras an easy one. I will report back on a new thread about my shoe selection before I leave for the Camino. This 36 miler in wet weather with rough terrain was a very good training hike that revealed some potentially big problems for me so I am so thankful for the big blister I'm nursing right now

Thanks, DaveB for the comment and help.

 

[BucketBabe]

BTW, which ULA pack did you decide on? I did some gear testing for ULA, and if you have any questions about the product, send me a PM and I'll try to help.

I purchased the circuit to replace and lighten up the 5 lb NF pack I was carrying. I was impressed with the 2.0 that my friend was carrying but wanted a little extra space - she hammocks, I tent so I was afraid that the 2.0 would be too limiting. I got the "S" straps (recommended for females) and am so excited...should be here Friday. Any info would be appreciated! I look forward to hearing your advice as I enjoy your well thought out and quality responses

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I purchased the circuit to replace and lighten up the 5 lb NF pack I was carrying. I was impressed with the 2.0 that my friend was carrying but wanted a little extra space - she hammocks, I tent so I was afraid that the 2.0 would be too limiting. I got the "S" straps (recommended for females) and am so excited...should be here Friday. Any info would be appreciated! I look forward to hearing your advice as I enjoy your well thought out and quality responses

I used the Circuit for most of my PCT thru-hike. Total weight with 8 days of food and fuel between resupply was about 22 pounds, and it was comfortable. The S strap option is a good choice.

 

[tomnorth]

Looking for advice — I’m walking the CF in October. I’ve been training in a pair of Keen waterproof Targhee IIIs, 17 miles per training hike, mix of all mountain trail, as well as city+mountain trail.

The Keens have been great so far in dry conditions), but I am thinking of switching to La Sportiva Wildcat trail runners (which I think would be much more breathable and better for pavement walking). My concerns regarding the CF that time of year are:

1) how much of the CF is actually dirt/rock trail vs pavement?

2) Keen waterproof shoes seem to not dry out quickly and trap in heat/moisture.

I haven’t had any blisters at all from training hikes in the Keens, and use Injini liners+sock combo.

Anyone had experience with La Sportiva shoes? Thanks for your time!

With two months to go before your Camino, you are officially mid-stream. If what you’re using is working, I can’t recommend changing horses in the middle of the stream.

 

[long trails]

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. This is why I won't wear Goretex again...

 

[Anniesantiago]

There is no need for waterproof shoes imo.
They cause more problems than they help.
Just wear trail runners and if your feet get wet, they'll dry overnight.

 

[Phil W]

A bit of a change in the original question, would recommendations change in winter weather say in December and January?

Phil

 

[trecile]

There is no need for waterproof shoes imo.
They cause more problems than they help.
Just wear trail runners and if your feet get wet, they'll dry overnight.

Or sandals!

 

[Travelite]

Hi, Manuel and welcome the Forum

This may help you with your considerations, and if it does I am glad it helped. It is a post I have written and posted before. Inevitably, you will go with what is most appealing and seems the best fit for you.

--------------------------------
Water can enter trail shoes or boots through any opening during a rainstorm or while walking through dew-covered grass or pour into it as happens when you walk through puddles or other standing water along the Camino.

There are two potential remedies to this problem, neither of which is effective. First, you can try keeping rain pants over the tops of shoes, so the water runs down the pants past the opening. But this system is uncomfortably hot in warmer and rainy temperatures, and it offers no protection for puddles or having to cross water runoffs on the pathway.

Or you can try using a shoe with a waterproof gaiter or some other waterproof cobbles -- like thick plastic bags. I have not seen a gaiter or other waterproof type accessory that would both keep the water out, and keep the feet dry.

“Waterproof” shoes fail is because the materials simply don’t work over the near and long term. Lightweight, leather and fabric trail boots, for example, where some manufacturers have tried treating with a coating, don’t last. It also keeps sweat in the shoe and your feet get soaked in sweat. Fairly quickly, coatings break down and will no longer be waterproof.

When I’ve tested so-called waterproof / breathable fabrics in shoes for various manufacturers, their actual performance never matched what was claimed. My reports to their QA departments have always reflected these weaknesses as found during testing.

Waterproof/breathable membranes, like Goretex, are only marginally breathable—water vapor from perspiration does not pass through the fabric as efficiently as is claimed. So on warm days the experience of having sweat being trapped in the shoe is common. Combined with the fact that the fabric waterproofing is quickly damaged by dirt, sweat, grime, and abrasion and it’s only a matter of time before exterior moisture begins penetrating the fabric and allowing feet to get wet.

That’s why serious trekkers and backpackers no longer go to great lengths to keep feet dry. They accept that when the weather is wet, feet will also get wet. Even the US military uses footwear for wet conditions which is not waterproof. The strategy is how to minimize any problems when feet are wet.

When I have asked why someone considering a footwear purchase why they want waterproof shoes, sometimes I will get looked at as if I had spaghetti sticking out of my nose. Usually the answer is along the lines that they think their feet will stay dry, and that having wet feet is akin to getting into horrible trouble.

This post is meant to help inform and give a different line of thought and reasoning.

I like to have dry feet. I always try to avoid wet feet. I have tried many ways to keep my feet dry:

1. “Waterproof” shoes, which, as I’ve said, don’t work well.

2. “Waterproof” socks, which don’t work for similar reasons.

3. Wearing multiple pairs of socks, which eventually all get wet.

4. Multiple pairs of shoes, which eventually all get wet too.

Since keeping my feet dry has never worked in very wet conditions, I decided to develop effective strategies so that the bad things that could occur to my wet feet when walking, are either waaaaaay minimized or eliminated. Some of these lessons I learned while in Vietnam…. Like the fact that our boots had fabric tops and numerous holes in the thin leather bottom portions so that water drained out quickly and never sat in the boots.

What are the bad things?

1. Maceration, or pruning, where the skin’s outer layer absorbs and gets “soggy” from moisture. The skin gets sore and extremely soft which makes it more prone to blistering and developing other problems.

2. Cracking of the skin when it dries. The natural moisture and oiliness of the skin is gone. The severity depends on how much stress the skin is exposed to after it is dried out.

So, what does work? For me, if I am going to be walking or backpacking in wet weather:

1. Apply a good coating of salve or balm to my feet before putting on socks and shoes. This helps protect from external moisture.

2. Wear non-waterproof shoes, which drain and dry out quickly. This minimizes the amount of puddling in the shoe that bathes the feet in moisture. Modern trail shoes have nice open mesh fabric which is terrific for draining water.

3. Non-waterproof shoes will also eliminate moisture from sweaty feet. Remember, it doesn’t matter what the source of the moisture is that feet are exposed to; rain or sweat, each can cause the same problems.

4. Wear thin, light-cushioned merino wool socks, which don’t absorb as much water as thicker socks. Merino wool will also keep wet feet warm unless the weather is winter-cold.

5. Take off my shoes and socks to let my feet air dry during any mid-day rest stop that will be longer than 20 minutes. During that time, I will wring out any excess moisture from the socks, but I will not put on either of my dry pairs (I take three). I will also reapply a good amount of balm or salve to my feet to help keep them from becoming macerated.

6. Apply a salve or ointment to the bottoms of my feet when I have stopped for the day both before and after I shower.

7. Carry an extra pair of insoles. These are lightweight and will be the barrier between your wet footwear and your dry socks when you are done for the day and if your shoes are a bit damp come morning.

8. I found that at days end, I can remove the wet insoles and use absorbent paper or toweling to sop up as much moisture as is possible while I am showering and dealing with end of the day chores. Then, when I get ready to go to dinner or wander around town, I put on a pair of dry Merino wool socks, insert the extra pair of dry insoles into my shoes, and put the shoes back on to walk around in. Within a couple of hours, the shoes are mostly dry.

9. At bedtime, I remove the insoles and stuff absorbent material into the shoes to continue the drying out process during the night.

10. Apply more salve or ointment and wear dry and warm socks at night, to give my feet 8-9 hours of recovery time.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

A bit of a change in the original question, would recommendations change in winter weather say in December and January?

Phil

Sure. In snow and ice I wear boots for backpacking, although I look for the lightest available for the type of conditions I expect to find. The same holds true for a season where you have both persistent wet, cold, and heavy mud conditions. For example, my mid to late winter potentially going into early spring are a pair of Lowa Camino boots.

 

[spursfan]

Sure. In snow and ice I wear boots for backpacking, although I look for the lightest available for the type of conditions I expect to find. The same holds true for a season where you have both persistent wet, cold, and heavy mud conditions. For example, my mid to late winter potentially going into early spring are a pair of Lowa Camino boots.

I'd still wear my trail runners in Winter - they've got Vibram soles and hope that it was dry but cold-ish most of the time (Spain isn't quite the North Pole) - without too much rain, hopefully the mud would be frozen

 

[Phil W]

Sure. In snow and ice I wear boots for backpacking, although I look for the lightest available for the type of conditions I expect to find. The same holds true for a season where you have both persistent wet, cold, and heavy mud conditions. For example, my mid to late winter potentially going into early spring are a pair of Lowa Camino boots.

Thanks @davebugg, that is what I was thinking. I will be in Spain for language school the month of November, then walk, and then hospitalero the last half of December.

Phil

 

[Phil W]

I'd still wear my trail runners in Winter - they've got Vibram soles and hope that it was dry but cold-ish most of the time (Spain isn't quite the North Pole) - without too much rain, hopefully the mud would be frozen

Thanks @spursfan, I have considered that and have even purchased the trail runners for just that purpose. I have just finished reading about a winter Camino by a gentleman who had to switch to boots during his Camino. I love the breathability and light weight. I have hiked and snowshoed in winter weather. I suspect the additional stability of the boot as well as some water resistance will be appreciated.

Phil

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Thanks @davebugg, that is what I was thinking. I will be in Spain for language school the month of November, then walk, and then hospitalero the last half of December.

Phil

Phil, P would encourage you to look at the conditions of the Camino and not the month or season. As Spursfan points out, a trail runner is not just sufficient, but in my mind preferable, if the month is on the dry side. Boots can be beneficial in continually cold and muddy conditions, but if that is not the conditions that you face at the time you are on Camino, then boots will add unneeded weight to your feet.

 

[Phil W]

I too prefer to walk in a trail runner. My concern is cold and mud. I will keep my eye on the weather. Thanks to both you and @spursfan.
Phil

 

[Devereaux]

Hi, Manuel and welcome the Forum

This may help you with your considerations, and if it does I am glad it helped. It is a post I have written and posted before. Inevitably, you will go with what is most appealing and seems the best fit for you.

--------------------------------
Water can enter trail shoes or boots through any opening during a rainstorm or while walking through dew-covered grass or pour into it as happens when you walk through puddles or other standing water along the Camino.

There are two potential remedies to this problem, neither of which is effective. First, you can try keeping rain pants over the tops of shoes, so the water runs down the pants past the opening. But this system is uncomfortably hot in warmer and rainy temperatures, and it offers no protection for puddles or having to cross water runoffs on the pathway.

Or you can try using a shoe with a waterproof gaiter or some other waterproof cobbles -- like thick plastic bags. I have not seen a gaiter or other waterproof type accessory that would both keep the water out, and keep the feet dry.

“Waterproof” shoes fail is because the materials simply don’t work over the near and long term. Lightweight, leather and fabric trail boots, for example, where some manufacturers have tried treating with a coating, don’t last. It also keeps sweat in the shoe and your feet get soaked in sweat. Fairly quickly, coatings break down and will no longer be waterproof.

When I’ve tested so-called waterproof / breathable fabrics in shoes for various manufacturers, their actual performance never matched what was claimed. My reports to their QA departments have always reflected these weaknesses as found during testing.

Waterproof/breathable membranes, like Goretex, are only marginally breathable—water vapor from perspiration does not pass through the fabric as efficiently as is claimed. So on warm days the experience of having sweat being trapped in the shoe is common. Combined with the fact that the fabric waterproofing is quickly damaged by dirt, sweat, grime, and abrasion and it’s only a matter of time before exterior moisture begins penetrating the fabric and allowing feet to get wet.

That’s why serious trekkers and backpackers no longer go to great lengths to keep feet dry. They accept that when the weather is wet, feet will also get wet. Even the US military uses footwear for wet conditions which is not waterproof. The strategy is how to minimize any problems when feet are wet.

When I have asked why someone considering a footwear purchase why they want waterproof shoes, sometimes I will get looked at as if I had spaghetti sticking out of my nose. Usually the answer is along the lines that they think their feet will stay dry, and that having wet feet is akin to getting into horrible trouble.

This post is meant to help inform and give a different line of thought and reasoning.

I like to have dry feet. I always try to avoid wet feet. I have tried many ways to keep my feet dry:

1. “Waterproof” shoes, which, as I’ve said, don’t work well.

2. “Waterproof” socks, which don’t work for similar reasons.

3. Wearing multiple pairs of socks, which eventually all get wet.

4. Multiple pairs of shoes, which eventually all get wet too.

Since keeping my feet dry has never worked in very wet conditions, I decided to develop effective strategies so that the bad things that could occur to my wet feet when walking, are either waaaaaay minimized or eliminated. Some of these lessons I learned while in Vietnam…. Like the fact that our boots had fabric tops and numerous holes in the thin leather bottom portions so that water drained out quickly and never sat in the boots.

What are the bad things?

1. Maceration, or pruning, where the skin’s outer layer absorbs and gets “soggy” from moisture. The skin gets sore and extremely soft which makes it more prone to blistering and developing other problems.

2. Cracking of the skin when it dries. The natural moisture and oiliness of the skin is gone. The severity depends on how much stress the skin is exposed to after it is dried out.

So, what does work? For me, if I am going to be walking or backpacking in wet weather:

1. Apply a good coating of salve or balm to my feet before putting on socks and shoes. This helps protect from external moisture.

2. Wear non-waterproof shoes, which drain and dry out quickly. This minimizes the amount of puddling in the shoe that bathes the feet in moisture. Modern trail shoes have nice open mesh fabric which is terrific for draining water.

3. Non-waterproof shoes will also eliminate moisture from sweaty feet. Remember, it doesn’t matter what the source of the moisture is that feet are exposed to; rain or sweat, each can cause the same problems.

4. Wear thin, light-cushioned merino wool socks, which don’t absorb as much water as thicker socks. Merino wool will also keep wet feet warm unless the weather is winter-cold.

5. Take off my shoes and socks to let my feet air dry during any mid-day rest stop that will be longer than 20 minutes. During that time, I will wring out any excess moisture from the socks, but I will not put on either of my dry pairs (I take three). I will also reapply a good amount of balm or salve to my feet to help keep them from becoming macerated.

6. Apply a salve or ointment to the bottoms of my feet when I have stopped for the day both before and after I shower.

7. Carry an extra pair of insoles. These are lightweight and will be the barrier between your wet footwear and your dry socks when you are done for the day and if your shoes are a bit damp come morning.

8. I found that at days end, I can remove the wet insoles and use absorbent paper or toweling to sop up as much moisture as is possible while I am showering and dealing with end of the day chores. Then, when I get ready to go to dinner or wander around town, I put on a pair of dry Merino wool socks, insert the extra pair of dry insoles into my shoes, and put the shoes back on to walk around in. Within a couple of hours, the shoes are mostly dry.

9. At bedtime, I remove the insoles and stuff absorbent material into the shoes to continue the drying out process during the night.

10. Apply more salve or ointment and wear dry and warm socks at night, to give my feet 8-9 hours of recovery time.

WHat "salve or ointment " do you use

 

[trecile]

I too prefer to walk in a trail runner. My concern is cold and mud. I will keep my eye on the weather. Thanks to both you and @spursfan.
Phil

Heavier wool socks would help with the cold.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

WHat "salve or ointment " do you use

My current favorite is Hiker Goo. It has a heavier waxy base and last longer while walking than products like vaseline or Body Glide. It also works well for those who use such products for blister prevention, although there are better methods for that.

 

[Kanga]

@Phil W I've worn my hiking sandals in cold and wet conditions using sealskins or dexshell socks. If you don't want to invest in a new pair of shoes just for the winter conditions.

They are the best way I know of keeping feet warm.