Short vs long trek and accompanying snobbery

[MCFearnley]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

 

[wayfarer]

As an old neighbour of mine used to say when I was a kid, "take plenty no notice". Everyones Camino is important to them as yours is to you, ignore the nay sayers and enjoy every step of yours.
Buen Camino.

 

[HeidiL]

I wish you a good camino, at whatever length your body and wallet can support!

 

[SYates]

Take a deep breath! The value this pilgrimage has is entirely up to you and nobody else than you (and perhaps God) can judge that. Same for the Compostela - it has the value you give it. And so on. Don't be discouraged - just take one step at a time on the Camino and towards the Cathedral. Buen Camino, SY

 

[C clearly]

there are certain types of people who...

Of course there are! They are people!

There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I think you misunderstand the typical intent of their statement. Often it is used kindly to point out to people who are unable to get that paper, and to value the walking/journey that they can make. Other times the statement is made to point out to people that they should not get too preoccupied with it, as the real value (most people would agree, I think) is in other elements of the journey.

It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone.

I don't think anyone here is intending to devalue your experience. In this sort of chat forum, all of us give opinions and impressions that do not fully describe the complexities. Sometimes people say careless things, but most of those people are actually nice people in real life, but they have warts and imperfections.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent

I'm glad you recognized this. But the negatives are surely not so strong as an undercurrent. Rather it is a few minor eddies and irregularities that are inevitable!

You will have a great camino, if you assume the best in other people!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims

Over 40% of the pilgrims last month walked only the requisite 100 km, so I think you are hearing something no one is saying! When you walk, I think you will find that you have taken offense where none was really proffered!

The Cathedral offers a compostela or certificate of completion to everyone who walks the last 100 km to the Cathedral. Those who walk further do it for reasons other than "to be a real pilgrim." They can be a bit arrogant at times (though not most of the time), and that may irritate some. However, it does not irritate real pilgrims, who take it in stride.

 

[jcat]

I walked Sarria - Santiago last February and made many friends along the way. Everyone I met was on a longer journey, but I always felt welcomed.

I can't get away for long periods of times, so I will be back for another short Camino next April.

 

[C clearly]

I keep thinking about this while I am doing some ironing! I hope you understand that I am trying to help you see the picture from another point of view.

People are "proud" of their accomplishments. You will rightly be proud of yourself for walking 200 km. You will probably have some war stories of your journey -things that were difficult for you, and you will share these experiences with fellow pilgrims, enjoying the camaraderie in the evening or in Santiago. Possibly someone who just started in Sarria will hear you and other longer-distance pilgrims (you'll be one of those at this point) commiserating or celebrating, and they might think you are looking down on them! Hopefully, with a little time and interaction, they will learn otherwise.

Go with confidence!

 

[trecile]

I'm on the Camino now, and there are many, many peregrinos who are doing a section at a time, as their schedule allows. I have to say that this forum is not representative of those I've met in the last two weeks on the Camino. No one has even heard of Pacer Poles!

 

[Miguel Pazos]

Really, pay no mind. Opinions are like... well, you know the rest. Best spend that energy in doing YOUR camino, and enjoying every step of it. Pilgrims, like people, come in all shapes and sizes and attitudes, all three of which are likely to change by the time we reach Santiago.
Buen Camino!!!

 

[stevenjarvis]

Short Camino , Long Camino , whatever, pilgrims each have their own motivation and leave their unique footprint on the Camino.
At the end of the Great Camino, we're all like Chess pieces, Queen or King, Rook or Pawn, we all go out in the same box....

 

[november_moon]

I think when a lot of people say that the compostela is "just" a piece of paper, what they mean is that the journey is the real thing of value, and that the compostela is just a representation of that journey. Your journey may include 800km of walking or 100km, but it's your journey that is important. It's sort of like a marriage certificate - it's only as meaningful as the marriage itself.

 

[Patti deBuck]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

Dear MCFearnley.
Your insights are valid IMHO. I also read several Camino related books and I found the same sentiment. But many of the responses to your post are so wonderful. Those people are the ones you want to get to know and that express the correct sentiment. Remember that bible story about the laborers in the field that received the same wages whether they worked the whole day or a part of the day? In our modern day work world that even happens when you think of people who do the work of nurses, teachers, EMTs and many others who work long hours and with much responsibility yet are paid a fraction of what others are paid who do no have direct contact with patients or children or people in emergency situations. So hold your head high for whatever your time and budget allows. We leave in one week for our 120 km hike so I am impressed that you are doing 200!! Buen Camino.

 

[MCFearnley]

Thanks everyone.

 

[VNwalking]

One of the things that so hooked me on my first Camino was the warm welcome from people who had walked much further--I was never made to feel 'less than.'
IME, it is the same here, by and large. Occasionally there will be someone who has a 'better than/worse than' view, but it is (IME) not so common and not encouraged.

I don't mean to be intrusive or to give unsolicited advice, @MCFearnley, but are you putting yourself on a hierarchy? By any standard, what you are doing--and have done, by the sound of it--is no small thing, but something of deep worth.

And when you get that well-earned compostella, it will be a reminder of what is possible. Your capacity will be tested along the way, even more than it has been already. And when you transcend your limits out there, no-one will be able to do or say anything to take the understanding that you get from that away. No one, no matter what they say.
A heartfelt Buen Camino to you!

 

[MTtoCamino]

What I have found interesting is the attitude I had after finishing vs the attitude I have 2 years later. Basically much less critical. We all or let me make the assumption that each person sets limits to personal immoral behavior, or excesses. Some don't at all but my point is that we make our own pilgrimage rules. That said some are more stringent than others.
So depending on each individual belief or experience will drive responses. For example 2 years ago healthy people taking transportation was not something to do while on pilgrimage. In my mind. Now I think my personal excess rule on this topic is silly. As who am I to judge someone else's Camino?
However if you do keep to your commitments the gifts you will receive are amazing.
Buen Camino
Keith

 

[cher99840]

What I have found interesting is the attitude I had after finishing vs the attitude I have 2 years later. Basically much less critical. We all or let me make the assumption that each person sets limits to personal immoral behavior, or excesses. Some don't at all but my point is that we make our own pilgrimage rules. That said some are more stringent than others.
So depending on each individual belief or experience will drive responses. For example 2 years ago healthy people taking transportation was not something to do while on pilgrimage. In my mind. Now I think my personal excess rule on this topic is silly. As who am I to judge someone else's Camino?
However if you do keep to your commitments the gifts you will receive are amazing.
Buen Camino
Keith

I think I'm following you, and if I am, I agree. We set personal goals for ourselves in everything we do. Not just in tasks to perform but also behavioral----call it standards for ourselves. It is important that WE live up to our own goals or standards. The problems arise when we impose our goals or standards on others, as in "measuring others by our own yardstick".

 

[MTtoCamino]

I think I'm following you, and if I am, I agree. We set personal goals for ourselves in everything we do. Not just in tasks to perform but also behavioral----call it standards for ourselves. It is important that WE live up to our own goals or standards. The problems arise when we impose our goals or standards on others, as in "measuring others by our own yardstick".

Yes you explained it much better than I wrote it.
Thank you
Keith

 

[GreatDane]

I would gladly walk an entire camino instead of the sections I am doing if someone would hire me for what I make now (and pay me through my retirement date), offer benefits and a 401K plan and allow me to be off for 5-6 weeks (paid). With my current employment I can only be off for about 2.5 weeks at a time. Countdown to retirement though!!!

 

[cher99840]

I would gladly walk an entire camino instead of the sections I am doing if someone would hire me for what I make now (and pay me through my retirement date), offer benefits and a 401K plan and allow me to be off for 5-6 weeks (paid). With my current employment I can only be off for about 2.5 weeks at a time. Countdown to retirement though!!!

One of the few silver linings in aging is we have more time.

 

[GreatDane]

One of the few silver linings in aging is we have more time.

Hubby and I are thinking late 2020 is our retirement date so we don't have too much time to go!

 

[bunnymac]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

Without a doubt there are a few Camino 'snobs' out there and I have been stung by one or two in the past. I finished the entire CF last week after 3 different short stints. I really enjoyed meeting all they new pilgrims after Sarria. Everyone has their own camino. It's not about the distance, it's about what you give to and take from your experience. Remember that should anyone sneer, it says more about them than it does about you. Have a great camino experience - your own experience - no one else's.

 

[Terrri]

Hubby and I are thinking late 2020 is our retirement date so we don't have too much time to go!

I was thinking that sounded so far off until I realized it is only 4 short years from now! It will be here before you know it.

 

[Terrri]

The problems arise when we impose our goals or standards on others, as in "measuring others by our own yardstick".

This sums things up perfectly.

When I walked before I met so many people walking the camino in so many ways. It really opened my eyes.

We met pilgrims of all ages walking the camino in a large variety of stages. We even met a couple walking the camino backwards because they were finishing up a round the world trip and that was the most convenient way for their unplanned walk.

I met pilgrims who stayed only in albergues and pilgrims who only stayed in hotels. I met pilgrims who were repeat pilgrims who upgraded their accommodations with every new camino.

I met pilgrims who were only walking for a week as part of their vacation and I met pilgrims who were appalled at the idea.

There isn't only one way to walk the camino just as there isn't only one way to live a life.

 

[MCFearnley]

Found in my Forum Inbox this morning. I will not mention the name of the sender. The example given is indeed hyperbole, but the intent is very much what I am talking about in my original post.

"I have had this "snobbery" conversation with other potential pilgrims who felt that some of the feedback on the Forum was closed minded. I'd like you to think of it another way.

If someone posted on a "Paris Forum" that they were flying to Paris, taking a taxi from the airport to the Louvre, getting out of the taxi, walking directly to the Mona Lisa, looking at it for one minute, walking back outside, getting in taxi, heading back to the airport and flying immediately home, some people on that forum might say, "Hey! There's more to the Louvre than the Mona Lisa. There's the Venus de Milo, Winged Victory, the Dying Slaves, and so much more. Also, have you considered modifying your trip? Maybe take in the Eiffel Tower, the Orangerie, the Pompidou Center, or the d'Orsay?"

This kind of comment is not to put down the initial plan, but to help the person understand that there is so much more to see and do in Paris.

Regarding the Camino, it does not seep into your bones for several weeks. It takes 35 or 40 days of hearing the rhythm of gravel crunching beneath your feet before it begins to repair your soul, rewire your value system, and cleanse all the hurt and regrets from the back of you mind. This frankly cannot be accomplished in 5 days from Sarria to Santiago.

But, if that's all the time you have, then you should go and do it.

If this makes me sound like a snob, I am truly sorry. Buen Camino."

 

[cher99840]

Yes you explained it much better than I wrote it.
Thank you
Keith

Thank you, but I failed to embrace one of your gems in my summation and it was an oversight. You mentioned how you had changed in one of your standards/beliefs after gaining additional experience and I think that is so very important. Perhaps the most difficult of all is remaining open to the possibility that there could be a flaw in our thinking. I applaud you!!

 

[wayfarer]

Found in my Forum Inbox this morning. I will not mention the name of the sender. The example given is indeed hyperbole, but the intent is very much what I am talking about in my original post.

"I have had this "snobbery" conversation with other potential pilgrims who felt that some of the feedback on the Forum was closed minded. I'd like you to think of it another way.

If someone posted on a "Paris Forum" that they were flying to Paris, taking a taxi from the airport to the Louvre, getting out of the taxi, walking directly to the Mona Lisa, looking at it for one minute, walking back outside, getting in taxi, heading back to the airport and flying immediately home, some people on that forum might say, "Hey! There's more to the Louvre than the Mona Lisa. There's the Venus de Milo, Winged Victory, the Dying Slaves, and so much more. Also, have you considered modifying your trip? Maybe take in the Eiffel Tower, the Orangerie, the Pompidou Center, or the d'Orsay?"

This kind of comment is not to put down the initial plan, but to help the person understand that there is so much more to see and do in Paris.

Regarding the Camino, it does not seep into your bones for several weeks. It takes 35 or 40 days of hearing the rhythm of gravel crunching beneath your feet before it begins to repair your soul, rewire your value system, and cleanse all the hurt and regrets from the back of you mind. This frankly cannot be accomplished in 5 days from Sarria to Santiago.

But, if that's all the time you have, then you should go and do it.

If this makes me sound like a snob, I am truly sorry. Buen Camino."

I'm afraid I could not agree with any of that. Most pilgrimages here in Ireland are at best one day long, and although I am more spiritual than religious I have spoken to many who have been moved or changed by one of those day pilgrimages with just one day crunching the gravel. I believe its what is in your heart before, during and after your Camino is what is important.

 

[daesdaemar]

The Camino should be an intensely personal experience. You are doing your own Camino. Others are doing theirs. Your Camino should hold deep meaning for you. It will likely have little or no meaning for others.

The Compostela is simply a piece of paper. It can serve as a marvelous reminder of the experience and like others, I also stood in a long line to get mine. However, if the Camino has no special meaning for one to recall, then what purpose does the Compostela serve other than another trinket?

Contemplate on your your Camino, not the Camino of others.

 

[trecile]

And then there are those who say "you didn't stay at such and such albergue?" or "you missed the cathedral in X city?" And then give you a pitiful look, because they feel that you have missed out on the singular best experience of the Camino...in their opinion. You can't possibly see or do everything on the Camino, in Paris or in life. The important thing is that you don't go around regretting anything.

And also, people act like they are somehow doing something noble by walking the entire Camino. There is nothing noble about it. It is something that people choose to do that benefits themselves. The only people that benefit from me being on the Camino are me and those who make a living providing accommodations, food, etc. on the Camino. Those of us who have the time and resources to walk the Camino are truly fortunate, and should not disparage those who make different choices.

 

[William Marques]

Found in my Forum Inbox this morning. I will not mention the name of the sender. The example given is indeed hyperbole, but the intent is very much what I am talking about in my original post.

"I have had this "snobbery" conversation with other potential pilgrims who felt that some of the feedback on the Forum was closed minded. I'd like you to think of it another way.

If someone posted on a "Paris Forum" that they were flying to Paris, taking a taxi from the airport to the Louvre, getting out of the taxi, walking directly to the Mona Lisa, looking at it for one minute, walking back outside, getting in taxi, heading back to the airport and flying immediately home, some people on that forum might say, "Hey! There's more to the Louvre than the Mona Lisa. There's the Venus de Milo, Winged Victory, the Dying Slaves, and so much more. Also, have you considered modifying your trip? Maybe take in the Eiffel Tower, the Orangerie, the Pompidou Center, or the d'Orsay?"

This kind of comment is not to put down the initial plan, but to help the person understand that there is so much more to see and do in Paris.

Regarding the Camino, it does not seep into your bones for several weeks. It takes 35 or 40 days of hearing the rhythm of gravel crunching beneath your feet before it begins to repair your soul, rewire your value system, and cleanse all the hurt and regrets from the back of you mind. This frankly cannot be accomplished in 5 days from Sarria to Santiago.

But, if that's all the time you have, then you should go and do it.

If this makes me sound like a snob, I am truly sorry. Buen Camino."

Claire - I am sorry that whoever wrote that did not have the courage to express his or her opinion publicly, probably because they knew what most replies would be.

There is no place for snobbery on the Caminos: the distance you walk, how little you spent, where you stayed, how hot or cold it was when you walked etc make no difference; and the snobs should curb their pride and accept that not everyone will want to make their pilgrimage in the same way.

 

[stevenjarvis]

The writer below is extolling the virtues of lots of time on the CdF, but implicitly denigrating the virtues of less time/distance, which is unfortunate, and, as thousands of pilgrims who are only able to spend shorter periods of time on the Camino will attest, not true. For me my 5 days from Tui in 2004 was a transformation and education. I'd take a day on Camino if I could , and enjoy it. I think they are well intentioned and appreciate their motives, but don't let perfection be the enemy of the possible... reminds me of " when the best time to plant a tree? " question. Answer, "Ten , twenty, thirty years ago, but since I didn't, I'll plant one now "

Found in my Forum Inbox this morning. I will not mention the name of the sender. The example given is indeed hyperbole, but the intent is very much what I am talking about in my original post.

"I have had this "snobbery" conversation with other potential pilgrims who felt that some of the feedback on the Forum was closed minded. I'd like you to think of it another way.

If someone posted on a "Paris Forum" that they were flying to Paris, taking a taxi from the airport to the Louvre, getting out of the taxi, walking directly to the Mona Lisa, looking at it for one minute, walking back outside, getting in taxi, heading back to the airport and flying immediately home, some people on that forum might say, "Hey! There's more to the Louvre than the Mona Lisa. There's the Venus de Milo, Winged Victory, the Dying Slaves, and so much more. Also, have you considered modifying your trip? Maybe take in the Eiffel Tower, the Orangerie, the Pompidou Center, or the d'Orsay?"

This kind of comment is not to put down the initial plan, but to help the person understand that there is so much more to see and do in Paris.

Regarding the Camino, it does not seep into your bones for several weeks. It takes 35 or 40 days of hearing the rhythm of gravel crunching beneath your feet before it begins to repair your soul, rewire your value system, and cleanse all the hurt and regrets from the back of you mind. This frankly cannot be accomplished in 5 days from Sarria to Santiago.

But, if that's all the time you have, then you should go and do it.

If this makes me sound like a snob, I am truly sorry. Buen Camino."

 

[wayfarer]

One of the lasting memories of my 2012 Camino was a German man who walked out his front door and spent eight years walking to Santiago.........one week at a time, as this was all the time he could afford. He was very emotional in Santiago, so happy to have completed his Camino but also so very sad that the journey was over.
A day, a week, a month, a year, eight years, it doesn't matter so long as you reach your own goal.

 

[domigee]

Oh dear, am I the only one who think the message in the inbox contains nothing objectionable?? One may disagree with it of course but I myself do not find it 'snobbish' or whatever...
Besides, what does it matter what others think???

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I'm afraid I could not agree with any of that. Most pilgrimages here in Ireland are at best one day long, and although I am more spiritual than religious I have spoken to many who have been moved or changed by one of those day pilgrimages with just one day crunching the gravel. I believe its what is in your heart before, during and after your Camino is what is important.

I did not write that private email, have walked the Frances over 3 trips, due to lack of vacation time, but cannot help but agree with whomever worte the email. The comparison to Paris is bang on, as to the impact a long walk has on the brain, the psyche, Jean-Christophe Rufin writes about beautifully in his book Immortelle randonee, as do many neripsych studies: isn't it said that it takes 3 weeks of changed havits to make them sink in?

What saddens me about this thread is that is comes from someone who has not walked a km of the Camino and already has preconceived ideas of how it's goong to be, how she's going to be treated.

This may be a good time to remind the OP that people on forum is not a reflection of the people typically foind on the Camino. Most do it once and move on to other things. Those poeple typically don't mise about what a pilgrimage is, if doing the Camino means being on a pilgrimage, if doing only a portion of the Frances makes it less of a pilgrimage that walking all of a shorter Camino, like the Inlges, or if walking anything that is not the Primitivo (the first Camino).

But then there are certain things that cannot be denied: 50% of the people who arrive in Santiago have started in Sarria, and Sarria doesn't look at all like Lourdes, the Oratoire St-Joseph, or La Villa, with people on their handsand knees in prayer, on in wheelchairs and crutches asking for a miracle. Would love to know how many do the Sarria bit because it is all they can physically do... They have the same tech clothes, carry less backpacks, and as read on a thread today, mojones are more vandalised starting in Sarria.

I walked from Sarria twice. Once in 2012, once last year, and kt is no secret that I detested my experience last year whereas in 2012 it felt very much like the previous weeks, a d previous hears of walking. If one can only walk 100km, for time or health reasons, I would never recommend that stretch. Head to the Portuguese which is just fine, or perhpas give the Ingles, which I still have to try.

May I also say that when you crawl to your albergue in the afternoon, disinfect and bandage your feet, there really is little energy left to badmouth people. And I have never seen it done. I have seen, and experienced "Sarria/Melide" shock, and it is not fun, but dealt internally, or discussed amongst people who have walked together from further back, and not snobbing others (how does anyone know where anyone startd anyway?) but rather mourning the peace and quiet of past days, the sense of community that seems to vanish, and the beauty that is also found further back.

To the OP, please keep an open mind and do not prejudge what you have yet to experience. All this will achieve is that you will rob yourself of what could be a lovely experience you could cherish for thr rest of your life.

Oh, and since you live in Montreal, consider the Sunday practice walk organised by Centre La Tienda on Wellington St. in Verdun. You may meet others planning their Caminos with whom to share anxieties, excitement, tips, etc.

 

[VNwalking]

Regarding the Camino, it does not seep into your bones for several weeks. It takes 35 or 40 days of hearing the rhythm of gravel crunching beneath your feet before it begins to repair your soul, rewire your value system, and cleanse all the hurt and regrets from the back of you mind. This frankly cannot be accomplished in 5 days from Sarria to Santiago.

I mostly agree with this paragraph of that message you got........until the last sentence (in bold). Then I totally disagree. Yes it's a gradual opening, but at the same time the some of the best insights we get on the camino can arise anywhere, in a moment--perhaps the first moment of a 'short walk'.
That statement may be true for that person, but whomever wrote it should not be generalizing. You can't about this--the way people open is not the same.
A single day on the camino is gold--so what is the short walk long walk snobbery but ego?

Go with your head high @MCFearnley and may you have a Buen Camino!

 

[Anemone del Camino]

The Pilgrims' Office website is clear about what this walk should be about, and what it requires to consider it a pilgrimage. As long as you stick to this, there is no reason anyone would frown upon a shorter distance. Now is longer better? Who wouldn't want to cover more ground, visit more churches and monasteries, chat with more villagers andco-walkers alojg the way? In that sense ues, longer is better.

From the website:
The appearance of motor vehicles and, in this century, the popularisation of tourism, represented somewhat of a crisis for pilgrimage: it was feared that the effort and sacrifice in the expiation of sins embraced in the pilgrimage on foot would be exchanged by a pleasant and enjoyable activity for the holidays. Such was the case that authorities in other sanctuaries began to issue visiting certificates imitating the “Compostela”. The Chapter of the Metropolitan Church of Santiago continued to issue the certificate and in modern times the award of the “Compostela” is limited to those who come to the tomb of the Apostle for religious and/or spiritual reasons, and following the routes of the Way of St. James on foot, by bicycle or on horseback. They are required to have travelled at least the last 100 kilometres on foot or horseback or the last 200 by bicycle, which is demonstrated by the “Credencial del Peregrino” duly stamped along the route travelled. Therefore other forms of travel to access the Compostela are excluded, except in the case of the disabled.

To get the “Compostela” you must:

• Make the pilgrimage for religious or spiritual reasons, or at least an attitude of search.
• Do the last 100 km on foot or horseback, or the last 200 km by bicycle. It is understood that the pilgrimage starts at one point and from there you come to visit the Tomb of St. James.
• You must collect the stamps on the “Credencial del Peregrino” from the places you pass through to certify that you have been there. Stamps from churches, hostels, monasteries, cathedrals and all places related to the Way are preferred, but if not they can also be stamped in other institutions: town halls, cafés, etc. You have to stamp the Credencial twice a day at least on the last 100 km (for pilgrims on foot or on horseback) or on the last 200 km (for cyclists pilgrims).

You can do the Way in stages, provided they are in chronological and geographical order. However, if you only do the minimum required distance (last 100 or 200 km), you must always get your Credencial stamped at the start and end of each stage, including the corresponding date, to show that the pilgrim has resumed the Way in the same place where they last stopped (i.e. you should always get the stamp at the starting point even though you have already stamped the card in the same place at the end of the previous stage).

 

[MCFearnley]

From what I understand, since I am doing 200km I need to have one stamp per day. Do I still need to get the two daily stamps for the stretch from Sarria to Santiago? I think it would be neat to get a stamp from every town I pass.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

It's your Camino, and how many km you walk is not important.
What people say or think is not important.
Wish you a wonderful journey and a Buen Camino, Peter.

 

[wayfarer]

From what I understand, since I am doing 200km I need to have one stamp per day. Do I still need to get the two daily stamps for the stretch from Sarria to Santiago? I think it would be neat to get a stamp from every town I pass.

Yes.

 

[domigee]

From what I understand, since I am doing 200km I need to have one stamp per day. Do I still need to get the two daily stamps for the stretch from Sarria to Santiago? I think it would be neat to get a stamp from every town I pass.

As quoted in a previous post:
"You have to stamp the Credencial twice a day at least on the last 100 km (for pilgrims on foot or on horseback) or on the last 200 km (for cyclists pilgrims)."

It doesn't matter if you walk 200km or 2000km, what matters to obtain the Compostela is the last 100Km stretch to Santiago and that is where you need TWO stamps a day.

 

[Waka]

@MCFearnley please, please, please don't take any notice of the snobbery that is around, in my view these snobby pilgrims are insecure. Walk, ride, bus the camino anyway you want too, it has nothing to do with any other pilgrim, all that counts is that you are happy and experiencing the journey of a lifetime.

Buen Camino

 

[Annette london]

Found in my Forum Inbox this morning. I will not mention the name of the sender. The example given is indeed hyperbole, but the intent is very much what I am talking about in my original post.

"I have had this "snobbery" conversation with other potential pilgrims who felt that some of the feedback on the Forum was closed minded. I'd like you to think of it another way.

If someone posted on a "Paris Forum" that they were flying to Paris, taking a taxi from the airport to the Louvre, getting out of the taxi, walking directly to the Mona Lisa, looking at it for one minute, walking back outside, getting in taxi, heading back to the airport and flying immediately home, some people on that forum might say, "Hey! There's more to the Louvre than the Mona Lisa. There's the Venus de Milo, Winged Victory, the Dying Slaves, and so much more. Also, have you considered modifying your trip? Maybe take in the Eiffel Tower, the Orangerie, the Pompidou Center, or the d'Orsay?"

This kind of comment is not to put down the initial plan, but to help the person understand that there is so much more to see and do in Paris.

Regarding the Camino, it does not seep into your bones for several weeks. It takes 35 or 40 days of hearing the rhythm of gravel crunching beneath your feet before it begins to repair your soul, rewire your value system, and cleanse all the hurt and regrets from the back of you mind. This frankly cannot be accomplished in 5 days from Sarria to Santiago.

But, if that's all the time you have, then you should go and do it.

If this makes me sound like a snob, I am truly sorry. Buen Camino."

Look, 5 days is 5 days and a lot can be accomplished in 5 days. I am a great believer in mindless walking e.g putting one foot in front of another and walking, especially for depression. Just walk for whatever length of time you have and don't start overanalysing what people think of you,otherwise you will not enjoy your walk.
Remember that not all those who walk the Camino are pilgrims!! We are not and yet we love the time and the walking there. Could not care less what people think of us! You can listen to favourite music, or enjoy the scenery, or just let your mind wander to think. Just get on and walk for yourself. Best wishes Annette

 

[alhartman]

Keep in mind that this forum experience is NOT the Camino experience!!
The demographics on the forum are hugely different than on the Way. Most of us are 'multiple offenders' in that we have walked several times; the rest are rookies looking for information. We are predominately English speaking. Compostela by country/language: Spanish 122,000, Italian 22,000, German 19,000 then 14,000 from USA. This is out of a total 263,000 awarded. For distance/starting point in 2015, about 38,000 started in SJPdP/Pamplona and 67,000 in Sarria.

From this forum just take in some of the information you may need (packing list, food, albergues, route finding, guidebook or not, scheduling, etc)--then GO and have your own wonderful experience. Trust me--you will!!

Buen Camino

 

[grayland]

Actually, I really think the accusation of snobbery is not well placed against the forum members here.
You often hear about the circus atmosphere that takes place at times from Sarria onward. These comments are not about the distance people are walking...it is about some groups that have just arrived and are in a party mood.
It really is a shock when you have been walking for weeks in a rather calm and quiet mood. Everything changes and it is very disconcerting to most of us. It is the way it is and you do have to just live with it. That is why many people
choose to start using hotels and private rooms on the last part of the camino.

Again...not about the distance....more about those who have no clue and disturb the peace and quiet. It has no connection with those who are undertaking a sincere Camino from any distance. That is not snobbery.
Do not be too quick to read motives into other peoples posts.

 

[domigee]

Oh thank you Grayland for that! I have not been aware of any snobbery about distance, either on this forum or when walking.
What I have experienced is exasperation from some about the loud crowds starting in Sarria AND the people who take up beds in albergues when they have not walked...
Nothing to do with how many kms were walked.

 

[C clearly]

Oh dear, am I the only one who think the message in the inbox contains nothing objectionable?? One may disagree with it of course but I myself do not find it 'snobbish' or whatever...

I agree. I did not find the message objectionable or even snobbish. The writer was trying to express and explain an opinion, thoughtfully and politely. Much of it I agreed with, although a few points I would argue with. Either way, I'm sure I could have a nice conversation with that person. To characterize him or her as an example of something that we should not welcome on this forum is wrong. I hope that person is not totally discouraged by this "outing" albeit anonymous.

My family went to Paris once for 2 days, and we spent 1 day at Euro Disney. We laughed as everyone would say "What! You're going to Paris and doing Disneyland instead of the Louvre, etc., etc.!" I completely understood their reactions, and might have had the same reaction if the roles were reversed. I am not accusing them of snobbery. My feelings were not hurt and we proceeded to have a wonderful family day as expected!

If one takes offense at that sort of discussion, unfortunately one is going to find similar opportunities everywhere.

 

[AcrossTheWater3008]

When I was in Santiago I attended the English mass. The priest had himself also walked the CF a couple of years ago and he mentioned that the walking the Camino does something to us, but the longer we had walked, the bigger the impact....

On a personal level, I hv noticed a change in myself. I realised I had become a "nicer" person, and I cared more about people around me... I doubt I would hv had that effect over a week or 10 days... but then, I am in my 50s, so maybe, my badness needed more time to be dislodged from the depths of me! Lets hope this impact lasts!!

 

[domigee]

So it this not true then (my translation, I don't have the English version):

When two walkers on the Way meet, they don't ask each other : "Where are you going to?", as the answer would be obvious, nor "Who are you?", because on the Way everyone is nothing more than a poor pilgrim ("Jacquet"). The question that gets asked is this: "Where did you start from?".

Nope, the ONE question everyone asks is 'Where are you from?'

 

[domigee]

I realised I had become a "nicer" person, and I cared more about people around me... I doubt I would hv had that effect over a week or 10 days... but then, I am in my 50s, so maybe, my badness needed more time to be dislodged from the depths of me! Lets hope this impact lasts!!

In my case it didn't which is why I have to keep on walking the Camino

 

[GettingThere]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

@MCFearnley I think your answer is in your own question. As you say in your first sentence about your observations on the Forum, "...I have sensed that there are certain types of people who..." Of course, as with everything in life, there are certain types of people who will look down on others for all kinds of things. Their loss, right? It's unfortunate that some people feel the need to disparage others' achievements, but that in no way should (or does) diminish what you will be setting out to accomplish (or what you will have achieved just getting to the "starting line"). It's a funny old world when a 200km walk could be described as "short" - it's not a short walk at all! You are planning to walk from Ponferrada to Santiago - that's quite a walk by anyone's standards, including one of the toughest hills on the Camino, and will certainly give you plenty of time for contemplation. And by the time you hit the famous "Sarria crowds" (which really didn't bother me, by the way) you will be an old hand at this!

Anyway - as you say in your post, "thank goodness this is not generalized throughout the forum!". My experience of this Forum is that any real negativity is very much in the minority, although of course it stands out when it does appear. Some like the sender of the message you received may feel that a longer camino gives a better experience, but that's just their opinion (and should have been prefaced with "in my opinion..." More is not always better! You will find numerous posts on different parts of the Forum from people planning to start from Ponferrada, or closer to Santiago, or from those planning to walk a short stretch between points on the Camino not finishing in Santiago - as others have said, many many people walk it a week or two at a time over several years. The official stats showing 40% walk only 100km are just the tip of the iceberg - there are no stats collected for the many thousands of people who walk these earlier stretches. Nothing unusual about that and certainly nothing that anyone would expect to be looked down on for. And certainly out on the Camino, I never saw or heard any suggestion of people being looked down on for walking "only" a certain distance.

So - feel proud of what you have achieved so far, and of what you are planning, and just enjoy the anticipation and then the doing. You will meet some fascinating, friendly, different people from all over the world and have a wonderful experience. Buen Camino, peregrina!

 

[Profesora]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

Hello, my first Camino was in 2004. I walked with my husband from Sarria to Santiago and there is a photograph of me beaming with delight as I arrived at the Cathedral. My first Camino was a wonderful, spiritual experience which I shall never forget. It made me want to do a longer pilgrimage, which I did over the next eight Summers in ten day or fortnightly stints because my husband couldn't get a longer time off work. Walking the Camino changed my life in all sorts of ways that are probably not obvious to anyone but me. To have been a pilgrim was probably one of the greatest experiences of my life, up,there with the births of my children. Seriously, it really was a wonderful experience. We walk a particular path, walking in the footsteps of those who went before and leaving footmarks for those who come after. There are no rules really and each person's pilgrimage begins at the moment they leave home, or maybe before then at the moment they decide to go on a pilgrimage.

However long your pilgrimage is, I hope it will help you and inspire you. You are part of a chain stretching back a thousand years and stretching forward to those who will start a day or a week or a month after you. And by the way, there were occasions when I felt tired or when my husband had terrible blisters when we caught the bus. On one occasion, when I was truly exhausted, my husband, who had failed Spanish O level nearly 50 years previously, managed to telephone for a taxi, the taxi came and the kind landlady of the casa rural we were going to opened her restaurant two hours early for us. That was one of our Camino miracles. You will have yours.

I could go on but you will be glad to know that I won't. Animo y buen Camino!

 

[Alan Pearce]

My first 3 caminos varied between 850 and 1100 km long. I used to look at those who had walked from Sarria to Santiago , and wonder "Why do they even bother?"

Then I began a series of volunteer jobs in Santiago that entailed meeting pilgrims at the end of their journeys and asking them how they felt about their experiences. I can tell you, that when those who walked from Sarria spoke of their caminos and how much they meant to them, that their eyes shone as brightly and their faces glowed as proudly as those who had walked much longer distances. And they cried with as much passion and emotion as well.

A common theme was that so many who had walked from Sarria were eagerly seeking a way in which they could return, somehow, and walk a longer distance next time, so that they could spread the joy over a longer time. That is a separate issue.

While I thank God that I hopefully have some long caminos left to walk [I haven't done the Frances yet!] I am also grateful for those many pilgrims I have met who walked from Sarria, and who taught me some humility.

Alan

Br brave. Life is joyous.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

You often hear about the circus atmosphere that takes place at times from Sarria onward. These comments are not about the distance people are walking...it is about some groups that have just arrived and are in a party mood.
It really is a shock when you have been walking for weeks in a rather calm and quiet mood. Everything changes and it is very disconcerting to most of us. It is the way it is and you do have to just live with it. That is why many people choose to start using hotels and private rooms on the last part of the camino.

Again...not about the distance....more about those who have no clue and disturb the peace and quiet. It has no connection with those who are undertaking a sincere Camino from any distance. That is not snobbery.
Do not be too quick to read motives into other peoples posts.

Bang on! Thank you Grayland.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

So it this not true then (my translation, I don't have the English version):

When two walkers on the Way meet, they don't ask each other : "Where are you going to?", as the answer would be obvious, nor "Who are you?", because on the Way everyone is nothing more than a poor pilgrim ("Jacquet"). The question that gets asked is this: "Where did you start from?".

Yes ot is, but not as a judging marker, but to know where common experience starts. And if and when the relationship grows as these people walk together day after day, or keep running into each other in the evening in albergues and restaurants, then the questions are no longer about where one started, nor about the Camino.

 

[MTtoCamino]

I just thought to ask did you notice the OP is a little green cartoon alien? The Camino seems to be growing...

 

[MCFearnley]

I just thought to ask did you notice the OP is a little green cartoon alien? The Camino seems to be growing...

Marvin the Martian is my favourite alien I may eventually change to a picture of my human self if I find one I like

 

[MTtoCamino]

Marvin the Martian is my favourite alien I may eventually change to a picture of my human self if I find one I like

It is just fine I do think we have a few aliens..

 

[C clearly]

Yes it is, but not as a judging marker, but to know where common experience starts.

So true. It is a conversation starter. Everyone started walking somewhere.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

OP, I have yet to go, but La Tienda gives a "How to lose kg in just an hour" workshop on what and how to pack a backpack. Since I am in Camino widthdrawl I am going this Thursday. Check their website or call them to register. And if they have it all wrong, count on me to tell you all about it ;0).

 

[AcrossTheWater3008]

In my case it didn't which is why I have to keep on walking the Camino

Hahaha Dominique

You will qualify for "saintly" status when u finished your next Camino! I will hv to keep pushing on!

Ginette x

 

[Ed's mom]

I read your post and the responses with great interest. My husband and I will be starting the camino in Sarria in October. Yes, booked thru a travel agent with luggage delivery to our guesthouse each night. We have adjusted our travel to shorter distances per day to accommodate our older joints. Does this make the camino less significant to us than the individual who walks further, faster and longer? Not really.
My husband and I have wanted to walk the camino since we were first married in the 1980's but life, raising children and providing health care for the poor and indigent and then our own declining health prevented it. But all of this is part of the camino of life. My journey, our journey together. The camino de Santiago is just another piece of that wonderful exciting journey. I cannot view it as one defining event in my life. I have had so many that have changed my life. I cannot allow someone else's choices and their attitude and behaviour to define mine in that way. Be strong. Remember why you are doing this. Don't worry about how someone else feels about your choices. In the end they don't go home with you. Only you do. Enjoy your time on this earth. See the sights. You will be doing something that only a fraction of the rest of the people of the world will ever do. Be true to yourself. Don't worry about what you cannot change.

 

[MCFearnley]

les pèlerins authentiques regardent comme une imposture les marcheurs qui se contentent de parcourir les derniers kilomètres et qui ont pourtant le toupet de se munir d'une credencial. Comme si ce tourisme pédestre de quelques courtes journées etait comparable aux interminables parcours des pèlerins partis de France ou d'autre pays d'Europe. Il y a un peu de snobisme dans cette réaction.

Here is my translation:
"the authentic pilgrims look upon the walkers who content themselves with walking the last kilometres and who have the gall to carry a credencial as impostors. As if this walking tour of a few short days is equivalent to the interminable routes of the pilgrims that left from France or other countries in Europe. There is a a bit of snobbishness in this reaction."

The author of this quote put what I was trying to say in my first post in such a beautifully succinct manner.

I am feeling a whole lot better. I had hit a pothole in my preparations/anticipation and was feeling rather down. Your encouraging posts and my return to the reason I am doing this pilgrimage have brought me back on track.
Thanks all.

 

[SYates]

You know, just reading this thread makes me feel uncomfortable because I have done long pilgrimages ... This thread makes me feel that I belong to a group of people that (semi-automatically?) looks down on other people ... Not sure if I can make myself understood. Nobody is better or worse because of the amount of kilometres s/he walked. Perhaps we should just try to use the word pilgrims without any qualifying adjectives? Buen Camino, SY

 

[MCFearnley]

Perhaps we should just try to use the word pilgrims without any qualifying adjectives?

I agree wholeheartedly.
To quote a favourite hymn of mine:
"We are pilgrims on a journey, we are trav’lers on the road.
We are here to help each other walk the mile and bear the load."

 

[C clearly]

You know, just reading this thread makes me feel uncomfortable because I have done long pilgrimages ... This thread makes me feel that I belong to a group of people that (semi-automatically?) looks down on other people ... Not sure if I can make myself understood. Nobody is better or worse because of the amount of kilometres s/he walked. Perhaps we should just try to use the word pilgrims without any qualifying adjectives? Buen Camino, SY

Yes, that was my feeling too. I recognize the differences in various pilgrimage styles and situations. That doesn't mean I'm looking down on anyone or devaluing their situation!

 

[grayland]

I think the real confusion here is that many of those who choose or are forced by circumstances to simply walk shorter distances. The are many factors involved. Time available, physical limitations, etc are all part of individual calculations that must be dealt wih.

Not everyone can take 30-35 days away from everyday life.

Having said that....it seems like those folks who are walking shorter distances are feeling that the members of this forum who are able to walk longer distances are somehow disrespecting them. It simply is not the case.
I am not sure who or why someone sent a PM to the OP. That is between them and can be discussed out of the public with each other.

It would be great if those who walk shorter distance can just accept that the rest of us really don't care or even think about how far you are walking most of the time.
I am really not sure what is being read into posts that give the idea of disrespect.

The majority of forum members are just as supportive to everyone regardless of the distance they walk.
It seems wrong to me to have many long time supportive members defending themselves against a perceived slight.

Just an opinion, of course.

 

[William Marques]

The Louvre comment has just pricked a memory of when we used to take our children around the National Gallery. My wife was one for spending half an hour in a single gallery whereas I used to take them at a trot around the whole place. We each had our own theory, hers to get a good look at each painting, mine to get a flavour of everything and maybe remember one or two they wanted to come back and look at. I suppose I am saying this to suggest there are many ways of doing almost everything and not always a right way.

Perhaps those of us who can only take time or are able to do smaller parts of the Camino are a little sensitive, we wish we could do more and take comments from pilgrims who have more time or are fitter in a way they did not intend. Perhaps those have the time to walk long distances do not realise that what they write sometimes implies there is a hierarchy of pilgrims which they did not intend.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

Just an opinion, of course.

It may be just an opinion @grayland but I thank you for offering it. I have felt uncomfortable with some aspects of this thread. Before I walked the Camino in 2015 I 'lurked' on the forum picking up advice about what others considered the best footwear, backpacks, poles etc.. Nearer to my date of departure the local weather updates provided by biarritzdon and others was a welcome reassurance. What I didn't look for was posts about attitudes to other pilgrims or of hierarchies of endeavour., and neither did I find any evidence of these concerns expressed during the journey to SdC. Surely the only attitudes that need to be monitored (and recalibrated when necessary), are our own, and walking the Camino certainly is one of the best ways of learning to jettison bad stuff so that we can be more generous in all our dealings with our fellow humans - it took me a while to realise this though, and it needs more practice so I think I will have to walk again to remedy the backsliding.

 

[MCFearnley]

Dear moderators,
You can erase this thread.
I am not out to make anyone uncomfortable nor am I calling everyone on this forum snobs (many have shown quite the contrary). I was quite upset after reading comments on a thread about how it would be good to change the requirements for the Compostela from 100 km to something like 300 km which would bar many people from earning said Compostela due to all sorts of reasons. There were some rather disparaging comments equating "real pilgrims" with long distance and being rather hard on those who choose to be "short" distance pilgrims.
That's all
Thanks

 

[GreatDane]

You can do the Way in stages, provided they are in chronological and geographical order.

??? So a person can be denied their Compostela for walking stages out of geographical order (even though they do their last 100km from Sarria)?????? Chronological order?

 

[SYates]

No, for the Compostela only the last 100km towards and until the cathedral count when you walk and the last 200km when you bike. Buen Camino, SY

 

[Felipe]

I found, too, troublesome some implications of the title thread. But I can’t reasonably expect everybody to conform with my ideas (which would be pleasant, but quite boring, I guess), or take offense every time somebody has a contrary opinion.
I sometimes (but very rarely) find some postings annoying. I answer them as I deem good or (most of the time) just ignore them. This is exactly what I do in the Camino, btw.
I think moderators do a very good job keeping this forum as a safe, tolerant and useful place.
About this thread, I think it is has been proper and supportive, and has many interesting postings (except for those written by this @Felipe character ).

 

[SYates]

Agree if everything you wrote @Felipe - apart of that last half sentence in brackets ;-) SY

 

[C clearly]

Dear moderators,
You can erase this thread.
I am not out to make anyone uncomfortable nor am I calling everyone on this forum snobs (many have shown quite the contrary). I was quite upset after reading comments on a thread about how it would be good to change the requirements for the Compostela from 100 km to something like 300 km which would bar many people from earning said Compostela due to all sorts of reasons. There were some rather disparaging comments equating "real pilgrims" with long distance and being rather hard on those who choose to be "short" distance pilgrims.
That's all
Thanks

Actually, thanks for starting this thread. It has been a virtual Camino for us all. We started with you describing an impression and some bad feelings you had, wandered on with others saying they were uncomfortable on the opposite side, pointing out different perspectives. We tossed that back and forth. Now we are at the albergue relaxing. Tomorrow we'll happily say buen Camino when we see each other on the road. Lesson in diversity and acceptance for all!

 

[Melensdad]

...
I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone.
... This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity...

Not sure which members devalue short Caminos. I did the Frances this summer with my wife, we started in SJPP and met many along the way who started in Pamplona, Burgos, Leon and Sarria. They were impressed with where we started. I stopped all of them and told them about the older man I met who started from his house in Holland. The people I met who started in Paris. Etc Etc Etc.

If there is any criticism about short distance walkers it is about those people who are loud and inconsiderate, most of whom happen to also start in Sarria. Many of these people are not there for a religious or spiritual journey, they are tourists, and when they get to Santiago they go to the Cathedral and they talk during the Holy mass for the pilgrims, they take pictures during the mass after they are instructed not to do so, they talk during the mass when they should be silent, they walk around during the mass when they should be still. . .

 

[Richard A Stead]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

You say

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

you say you don't need to justify yourself to anyone but immediately do so. Walk as far or as little as you want to but please don't be so defensive. Most walkers are not judgemental and wish all pilgrims well and to be frank you sound very aggressive before you've even started !

 

[long trails]

The shame is that most 'short distance' pilgrims only do the last 100km, which is probably the worst in my honest opinion.

If I could only do a few days of the CF, I sure as hell wouldn't start in Sarria.

 

[David]

Well said - now go out there and do your pilgrimage ... oh, here is a tip, carry a custard pie with you and if you do meet one of those anal-retentive moaners, well, you will have a custard pie ready to use ...

 

[Teresa blake]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

Enjoy your Camino anyway you like. I recently ( June 2016 ) got the wonderful opportunity to do the Primivito. I met such wonderful people from all over the world, first timers and many that have travelled all the Camino paths. The few that expressed that Camino " snobbery ", I found were deeply unhappy people. They pounded the Way for whatever personal reason and forgot about compassion, for themselves first and others, that have their own challenges in life.
It does'nt matter if you walk it, bus it, cycle it, stay in Hostels/Hotels/Tents etc.
What matters is you're there, where you're meant to be at that time. Take each moment, challenge as it comes. Give gratitude for the opportunity and enjoy some fun and laughter with your fellow Pilgrim.
Buen Camino.

 

[Deleted member 56069]

We completed the Camino Frances route over 3 years. My wife and I physically would have no issue doing it all in shot, but neither of us could take the length of time off work to do it all in one go.
So the choice for us was to do it in pieces or wait for retirement and hope we still had our health and would be able to still complete a Pilgrimage.
I have long ago stopped worrying about what other people think.
Regardless of the activity in life there are always the experts that feel their way is the only way or the best way.

 

[DurhamParish]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

I've said this so many times that I'm sure that the regulars on here are tired to hearing it:

"The Camino is not a competition. The Compostela is not a trophy."

Don't let ANYONE cause you to feel what you have accomplished is devalued in any way.

 

[Brian&Deb J.]

So easy to pump up self importance by cutting down others. I felt that snobbery rising in me the day we left Sarria amongst many others intent on making it to the Pilgram Office in Santiago. Then as the day rolled along it truly hit me tha"t Hey what I am doing is My Camino and what they are doing is Their Camino". One is no better than the other. Whatever time I wasted with my internal grumbling only stole from my Camino experience. And that was my fault, not the fault of others who were not conforming with my Camino path.
"Its Their Camino" has become a common phrase whenever someone else's actions start irking me.
Another Camino Life Lesson!

 

[Sraaen]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

I have mad respect for one-week pilgrims. The first week is the most painful and to subject one's self to that without the payoff of the subsequent comfortable kms is admirable. I tip my hat to you.

 

[KinkyOne]

I have mad respect for one-week pilgrims. The first week is the most painful and to subject one's self to that without the payoff of the subsequent comfortable kms is admirable. I tip my hat to you.

Interesting aspect I haven't thought about it really. Good point, @Sraaen !!!

 

[Wayfarer68]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

I have read your thread and I agree with some things, People are so quick at judging others and there situations whatever they may be. Maybe they should think really hard before they cast the stone at cruz de ferro. And to say there is no value to the compostela at the end of everyone's journey is utterly senseless. As for being unemployed this is another sigma that beneficiaries have to endure. All of us experience negative thoughts from time to time. How we manage our negative attitudes can make the difference. Let's all show some mindfulness and awareness. The Camino is for everyone.

 

[VNwalking]

Yes, we judge. We're people. Everyone does that from time to time--directing the judgement inside, outside, or both. As you say, @Wayfarer68, it's what we do with them that's important. And the Camino journey gives us a clear mirror to see where we're reactive, defensive, overly sensitive...or whatever--and it gives us a chance to accept, let be, and incline to what is useful and light.
If we want it to.
Not everyone has the same intention, though, as @Melensdad points out:

people are not there for a religious or spiritual journey, they are tourists

For those of us who are walking as practice or purification, the amount of time is one of the things that can make a difference. Generally, I think (and in my experience) all other things being equal, long is more purifying than short. It doesn't make it 'better than,' though. That's extra, and not useful.
Anyway, the 'all other things' are not equal at all. They're immensely variable. So there are a lot of other factors in play.

That's why Katharina's post makes total sense to me:

I am convinced that a 5 to 7 days trip, under the right conditions (such as being away from it all, with a small group of like minded people who you had not met before, and continuous physical activity throughout the day), can be as profound and situation-changing as 35-40 days on The Way.

Someone can walk for a few days with sincere prayerful intent, and gain as much or more as another person who walks for months while connected to the distractions of the internet or in the middle of a moving party-scene.

The wonderful thing is that even the latter kind of walk can be a profoundly heart-changing experience. No-one can say it's a waste of time or not as useful.

I put that in italics so as not to be taken as anti-anything or in some way looking down on everyone who doesn't walk as a renunciate, because I'm not.

We talk (and argue in a good-hearted way) a lot here about what makes a pilgrim, about length of the journey, about the proper place of internet technology (I mean the later specifically, rather than the specious generalized meaning that encompasses most anything 'modern'). Running through all those discussions are our personal assumptions about all those other things that can so affect the character of the journey.

But in spite of our different views, the Camino takes care of itself, and works. Regardless. On some level and in some way. That will look different for different people, that's all.

I have mad respect for one-week pilgrims. The first week is the most painful and to subject one's self to that without the payoff of the subsequent comfortable kms is admirable.

Yes indeed! Me too.
Walking the Camino and meditation retreats have so much in common--and this is one of those things that is the same. I'd far rather sit in silence for 3 months than for a weekend or even a week (seriously, I'm not joking). The shorter time frame gives just enough time to connect with physical pain and mental challenges...but not enough to really grapple with them or to develop the concentration that makes it all a whole lot easier.

Thank you for this thread--it's a good one! (And rant over....)

 

[obinjatoo@yahoo.com]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind...

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Marvin the Martian is my favourite alien

Peg and I have a modern, flying saucer shaped light over our dining room table. One day I happened to find a Marvin character on the street. He has a new home now.

 

[Debra Dunsmore]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I SJPP sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

Wow! I am so very proud of you for having the courage to get on the Camino and walk, and to open up about your feelings. I hope that you are getting help for your depression. My youngest daughter battles depression and I know that there are days when she just cannot make herself get out of bed and then there are days when she can barely make herself get out of bed. Luckily, her new meds and counseling seem to be helping her. My other daughter and I plan to walk the Camino next summer. We will not begin in SJPP as many of the pilgrims do as I have bad knees and I don't think they could tolerate walking down out of the Pyrenees. However, like you, I plan to do the best that I can and walk MY Camino. May God bless you as you walk your Camino, and I pray that the Camino brings you peace and that you will find your path in life.

 

[Registration]

I have been reading many of the threads on this forum and I have sensed that there are certain types of people who look down on those who can only plan a short distance saying that the short-distancers are not really real pilgrims and are doing it just for the sake of an easy Compostela. There are also those who say that the Compostela is "just a piece of paper" and that there is really no value to it.

I am going to be a short-distance pilgrim soon and that "piece of paper" has meaning for me. It is sad to see that there are some who devalue what I am doing. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I went from non-existent exercise for two and a half years following a bout of depression and anxiety to starting to walk at the end of June this year. 200km will be for me similar to others who do 800. I am unemployed so yeah, I have plenty of time, but the money is extremely tight and had to dig into my retirement funds to do this. This is not a lark, I sensed a call from God to do this to take some time to sort out my path in life.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Thank goodness that this is not generalized throughout the forum! It is a little depressing, though, for a first timer like myself to encounter this kind of undercurrent. Some may not be aware that they are doing it. I just hope that I will not encounter it on my pilgrimage.

Thanks for letting me have my say.

Don't let anyone tell you that!!! Whether short or long it is the emotional and mental reaction that is supposed to mean something to you. Your Compostela at the end is wonderful proof of your accomplishment and if you frame it and hang it somewhere where you'll see it every day your memories will astonish you no end.
Enjoy the walk.

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

I've just finished reading another Camino book and burst out laughing when I came to this paragraph (the author and his wife started in Le Puy):
We are a month underway and have covered over 700 kilometres. Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port is fast approaching and I am nervous? Will it be crowded? Like Joseph and Mary, will we find rooms at the inn? St. Jean is where many people, North Americans, in particular begin the Camino. How will I feel with so many others around? Will I be friendly and sociable or just a grumpy old man?
Evan Llewellyn
My Own Damn Camino: True Tales from the Road (it's a good read!)

The author has described very similar feelings to that of those who start at SJPdP when they arrive in Sarria reminds me of that 1970s (those heady days!) prose poem Desiderata:
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

It would be nice if people would see other pilgrims not as somewhere on a hierarchy, but as fellow travelers on the road of humanity who have their own very personal reasons to go and do whatever distance they can or they are called to do.

Never measure your own worth through comparison with or by others. Go and make your version of yourSelf awesome!

You're well and truly on the Way now, fellow traveller.

Buen, Buen Camino!

Go well.

 

[bunnymac]

Not sure which members devalue short Caminos. I did the Frances this summer with my wife, we started in SJPP and met many along the way who started in Pamplona, Burgos, Leon and Sarria. They were impressed with where we started. I stopped all of them and told them about the older man I met who started from his house in Holland. The people I met who started in Paris. Etc Etc Etc.

If there is any criticism about short distance walkers it is about those people who are loud and inconsiderate, most of whom happen to also start in Sarria. Many of these people are not there for a religious or spiritual journey, they are tourists, and when they get to Santiago they go to the Cathedral and they talk during the Holy mass for the pilgrims, they take pictures during the mass after they are instructed not to do so, they talk during the mass when they should be silent, they walk around during the mass when they should be still. . .

I only met one loud and inconsiderate person this year. He had walked from SJPP and it was his SECOND camino. He should have known better and really didn't (loudspeakers blaring from his backpack for a start - it got worse from there) He rocked up at an albergue where I was staying (our second encounter) and the hospitalero informed him that there was no space left for him. About two hours after he left 3 beds opened up miraculously for a very charming family of three. After his departure, a number of pilgrims commented on him independently. Comments ranged from 'I've been trying to avoid that man for 4 days' to ' I met him in such a town, he is so mean'. This was my fourth camino trip and thankfully my only significantly unpleasant experience. I suppose what I'm saying in a rather long winded way is that it is not solely the pilgrims who join from Sarria who can be a royal pain in the arse.

 

[Icacos]

I only met one loud and inconsiderate person this year. He had walked from SJPP and it was his SECOND camino. He should have known better and really didn't (loudspeakers blaring from his backpack for a start - it got worse from there) He rocked up at an albergue where I was staying (our second encounter) and the hospitalero informed him that there was no space left for him. About two hours after he left 3 beds opened up miraculously for a very charming family of three. After his departure, a number of pilgrims commented on him independently. Comments ranged from 'I've been trying to avoid that man for 4 days' to ' I met him in such a town, he is so mean'. This was my fourth camino trip and thankfully my only significantly unpleasant experience. I suppose what I'm saying in a rather long winded way is that it is not solely the pilgrims who join from Sarria who can be a royal pain in the arse.

It's always sad when we encounter people like this. But, just think, he's on the Camino - the best place in the world for long-term thinking and self-reflection, and lots of time to make changes for the better. I'm sure that by the end of his Camino he was a better person.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

It's always sad when we encounter people like this. But, just think, he's on the Camino - the best place in the world for long-term thinking and self-reflection, and lots of time to make changes for the better. I'm sure that by the end of his Camino he was a better person.

Did anyone come across him at the start of his first camino?

 

[bunnymac]

It's always sad when we encounter people like this. But, just think, he's on the Camino - the best place in the world for long-term thinking and self-reflection, and lots of time to make changes for the better. I'm sure that by the end of his Camino he was a better person.

I'd like to think so, but I suspect not. I am a person who finds good in almost everyone. this guy was reprehensible.

 

[bunnymac]

Did anyone come across him at the start of his first camino?

God forbid!

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I've waited several days to join this thread, but here goes (putting on protective helmet)
1. I reviewed the thread on a 300km distance requirement that so upset the OP. No where did I see people denigrating pilgrims based on distance-- only on the attitude they perceived in the last 100km. Could that perception be false? absolutely, and it could also be that some of the partying is coming from those who walked further but are deciding to cut loose as the journey ends, since everyone else is doing it. If you ask me, compared to every other camino I've been on, the entire CF is party-town. Perceptions vary, we don't need to accept them.
2. The proposal to use 300km rather than 100 km was made based on several issues: 300 km had more basis in history, 100 km was arbitrarily chosen in recent years. OK..I get that and respect that, good point. just because it isn't as convenient as 100 km, they make a good point.
3. exceptions were proposed for a 100km distance if disability prevented walking further. fair enough.
4. exceptions were proposed for the Ingles based on historical reasons. fair and consistent with their plea for historical basis
5. these combined to allow for people to walk 100km if disabled, to walk the Ingles if time/money were factors, or walk the 300 km in stages if time/money were factors (as is commonly done now for those who want to walk from say SJPdP or Paris or...) not unreasonable

This was further proposed in part because the 100km distance put towns outside the 100km at a disadvantage (not so sure I think that's a valid reason, or eventually we'd all be walking from Roncesvalles or Irun or...)
This was further proposed in part because a 100km distance was easy enough that it attracted crowds that just intended to party their way to SdC, detracting from the fact that this is a religious pilgrimage (perhaps, but party people party...see 1. above)

that last line could be a whole different argument (raising force fields) but the fact is, it IS a religious pilgrimage founded in the Catholic faith. Yes, we all walk for different reasons, but the fact remains that we are tacking those reasons onto the path of a Catholic pilgrimage and should respect that. Anyone unable to respect the faith and emotions tied to what Catholics in our host nation hold have the option of many fine hiking trails...the Appalachian trail comes immediately to mind. Edit: before anyone protests that the Sarria-SdC party people are Spanish Catholics, let me say that what my neighbor does in his house is his business, what I do in his house is my business AND his business.

all of that said, I would hate to see the distance increase because I fear the Ingles would become the Sarria-SdC equivalent (sad), the CF would be a nightmare from SJPdP to Pamplona AND from Leon westward (very sad),more will end up on the Norte and Primitivo (especially sad since I love them), infrastructure will not meet demand on the Primitivo and to some degree the Norte (I can already imagine the albergue posts), and people who probably shouldn't walk the Primitivo due to it's long required legs will need to be hauled off by ambulance (dangerous).

I think that sometimes we read snobbery (or anger, or derision, etc) into posts because of a sensitive nature, or insecurity, or even fear or envy; hopefully all of that changes and improves with time, the Camino, or both. If for some reason you just can't stand to read a particular type of thread, don't. If my posts drive you mad, click on my name, then on ignore. So many times we are urged to take our personal issues off the thread, and into PM (and rightly so). I guess that's the thing that is bothering me the most about this thread, that a person's PM was made public, without permission or context. I get that the person who did that was upset, and so perhaps acted in a manner less mature than they wish they had...but the fact that they did that without censure makes me wonder if I ever want to PM someone. I don't agree with everything the person said in their PM (assuming it wasn't taken out of context), but I am very sorry someone violated their trust.