Should I Give My 2nd Pair of Boots "The Boot?"

[DeadFred]

I'm boarding my flight for Madrid in five days and a wake-up .. My pack is heavy . I need to jettison something. Everything I have is essential except for maybe the extra pair of boots I once thought were essential.

I hear that I don't really need them and I hear that I absolutely need them. I am reaching out to you the seasoned Camino veterans of the forum for opinions on what YOU think is right for you. Reading your comments will help me possibly resolve my waffling. ( and maybe help some other novice too)

Gracias
Joe

 

[jirit]

Yep, get rid of the older pair of boots. You only need one pair - ideally a newer pair that is recently broken in.

 

[Bajaracer]

I'm boarding my flight for Madrid in five days and a wake-up .. My pack is heavy . I need to jettison something. Everything I have is essential except for maybe the extra pair of boots I once thought were essential.

I hear that I don't really need them and I hear that I absolutely need them. I am reaching out to you the seasoned Camino veterans of the forum for opinions on what YOU think is right for you. Reading your comments will help me possibly resolve my waffling. ( and maybe help some other novice too)

Gracias
Joe

It's up to you if you want to carry the extra weight, nobody else is going to carry it for you. I started figuring out real quick what I didn't need to carry, I had packed food from home that added to my burden, about 3kg, took over a week to consume it all. I tossed out a wall socket splitter, 3 travel packs of Contonelle flushable wipes, I started the Camino at 12kg, towards the end, I got it down to 8kg. Now that I know what to pack, I got a smaller pack and am packing less socks, underwear, and other items, I'm now down to 6.4kg with 1L of water with my Z-Poles inside.

 

[Felipe]

I cant imagine why you may need a second pair of boots. They will be bulky, too.
On the other side, flip-flops or sandals are convenient for for showering and walking around in albergues and villages.

 

[Kanga]

If you were happy with the old boots you would not have bought new ones. So one pair or the other is superfluous. Turf 'em.

Just this morning I threw put the boots my husband wore on our first Camino. They have been sitting in a cupboard unworn for the last ten years.

 

[Mark Lee]

Ditch em dude. Believe me, if you don't ditch them now you will be ditching them in Spain very quickly. At least if you ditch them now, you can have them for doing yard-work, etc around the house.
There is zero reason to have two sets of boots when walking the Camino.
I'm curious what was the logic or reason other forum members gave for carrying two sets of boots?

 

[cher99840]

I wore Merrill Moabs and switched off with Keen Newport sandals. I can't imagine two pair of boots but the sandals were a nice change.

 

[whariwharangi]

Ditch em dude. Believe me, if you don't ditch them now you will be ditching them in Spain very quickly. At least if you ditch them now, you can have them for doing yard-work, etc around the house.
There is zero reason to have two sets of boots when walking the Camino.
I'm curious what was the logic or reason other forum members gave for carrying two sets of boots?

One reason is in the event of a pair getting wet. Then you have a dry pair to wear.

The other reason is in the event of a blowout you can leave it someplace conspicuous on the camino and have a pair to change into.

Neither of which are good enough reasons to carry a spare pair of boots on the camino.

 

[Dennis D]

You might want to empty your pack and see what else you can leave at home besides that second pair of boots. I was just under 8K before adding water. There is a lot of information on this forum regarding foot care and what to pack. You might want to check it out. Buen Camino!

 

[AJ]

If your boots wear out and you need a new pair, you can buy them in Spain: that's what I did.

 

[David]

Hi DeadFred - sorry to say this, but if your pack is heavy then you are not carrying just essentials. Just you mentioning that you have spare boots tells me that you have filled your pack with "just in case" items - you don't need them, you won't need them, you shouldn't take them .... empty that pack out and spread all the items out and get rid of Every 'just in case' item.
You still have five days? post up a list of everything - everything, no cheating! - you are taking and we will tell you what you don't need !

 

[Saint Mike II]

Hola Fred - in addition to supporting the majority of my fellow pilgrims suggestions I would go one further:
1. get your packing list - I hope you have a packing list!?;
2. check whats on the packing list and compare with what was in your pack. I can vouch for the "I'll take these "just in case" - all it does is add more weight";
3. so now we have the really bare essentials we take out the kitchen scales and weigh every item, including the backpack itself, oh and yes weigh your boots; There is another school of thought - 1 kg of boots on your feet equals 4-5 kg on your back!!
4. once repacked your backpack should ideally be less than 10-12kg (or 10% of your body weight). This figure excludes water and food.

There is an oft repeated saying on the Camino - less is more! Buen Camino with your newer boots and hopefully lighter pack.

 

[DeadFred]

Looks like the Boots get the boot . Appreciate the replies folks , it's off the list . Now , if only I could get that CPAP off the list I would really have a lite load .

Buen Camino!

 

[David]

C'monnnn .. what else is in that pack to make it heavy? (have no idea what cpap is!)

 

[dougfitz]

@David - CPAP - Continuous Positive Air Pressure Pump - used by those of us with sleep apnoea to stop our windpipes closing completely when we sleep, when our bodies then wake us up - many times an hour! Depending on the severity of one's condition, it needs to be used every night. Some of us are lucky enough that we can get away without using it for a little while, and I haven't carried mine on any of my pilgrimage walks. All up in a packing cell to protect it, my current one weighs about 2kg - nearly half the weight of my original machine. @DeadFred might have a slightly lighter model, but its still a significant weight if he cannot avoid using it for any length of time.

 

[Arn]

The Dr is IN:
David, a CPap is a medical device that assists an individual suffering with sleep apnea (periods of several seconds to a minute(s) when normal breathing pauses).
My sleep apnea is controlled by a mouth piece that corrects my overbite, thus removes the abnormal obstruction it causes.
Now on to DeadFred's dilemma. If "your" Dr says you "must" take the CPap, then removing that is not an option. So, repack once again and remove enough "stuff" to equal the CPap.

 

[David]

Ah - I thought cpac might stand for Comfortable Pilgrim Accessories Pack

 

[bystander]

CPAP? I thought the C stood for "compulsive" and the second P stood for "personality" and the middle two letters for an over-enthusiastic oenophile!
(P.A., as an acronym, is possibly only intelligible to Brits!)

As to footwear, I will be taking/wearing a pair of Altra Olympus shoes (258g) and when the going is favourable a pair of Teva Terra sandals (340g)

So total 598g or 1.32lbs and in back pack, at worst, 340g or 12 ounces.

 

[Al the optimist]

Extra boots!!!! Extra anything is a NO! Less weight is up there as the number one thing. As mentioned above there are almost certainly other things you don't need to carry.

 

[Mark Lee]

Extra boots!!!! Extra anything is a NO! Less weight is up there as the number one thing. As mentioned above there are almost certainly other things you don't need to carry.

Very true. The old "what if" or "just in case" mentality leads to hauling useless stuff. I know. I fell victim to it on my first Camino. The big outdoor store retailers use it to peddle more goods.
Bring what you need and that's all that you need.

 

[Bajaracer]

I'm boarding my flight for Madrid in five days and a wake-up .. My pack is heavy . I need to jettison something. Everything I have is essential except for maybe the extra pair of boots I once thought were essential.

I hear that I don't really need them and I hear that I absolutely need them. I am reaching out to you the seasoned Camino veterans of the forum for opinions on what YOU think is right for you. Reading your comments will help me possibly resolve my waffling. ( and maybe help some other novice too)

Gracias
Joe

Lets see your packing list, some of us can point out ways to lighten your load.

 

[Wanderer64]

If I did the Camino again, I would surely pack lighter, but I do not regret bringing my well-worn Vasque boots and low cut Patagonia hikers. I found being able to alternate between the two, based on terrain and how my feet were feeling, was a great benefit. But as has been said many times in many threads, the issue of feet and shoes is very personal.

I ended up dumping (and donating) extra clothes I simply didn't need as went. If I did the Camino again in summer, I'd bring no more than two of anything in the clothing department. One to wear while you are washing and drying the other. I would also scale down my first aid kit and supplies to absolute essentials. There are lots of pharmacies along the way. You'd be surprised how heavy those little bottles of stuff and roles of tape you never end up needing end up weighing.

The Camino truly was an exercise, for me, in appreciating the difference between wants vs. needs.

 

[AJ]

There are a lot of weight police on this forum!

 

[Olivares]

If your boots wear out and you need a new pair, you can buy them in Spain: that's what I did.

You can buy everything in Spain for that matter!

Truth is that if you went as far as packing an extra set of boots, you REALLY need to 'fess up and list out what else did you packed! I got the feeling there has got to be something else in that bag that is just as unnecessary as an extra pair of boots....

 

[Mark Lee]

There are a lot of weight police on this forum!

I guess I can really only speak for myself, but I think a lot of the advice comes about because those who have done the Camino before want a first time peregrino to enjoy the experience as much as possible, and the lighter your pack, the easier the walk in the sense of less stress on the joints, back, knees, etc.

 

[DeadFred]

Lets see your packing list, some of us can point out ways to lighten your load.

The list

Backpack -1
Sleeping bag -1 Very light
Boots - 2 pair ( now 1 pair)
Flip Flops -1 pair
Sandals -1 pair
Shirts - 3 pair 2 short sleeve /1 long sleeve- /
Pants - 2 pair ( 1shorts , 1 full length
Socks - 4 pair ( 2 wool , 2 inner)
Towel -1 quick dry
Trekking poles
Rain gear - Hooded top-pants/light poncho
Canteen (2 - 1 liter)
Cpap ( sleep apnea) Small , converter & hose
head lamp(led)
Medical kit
Meds ( heart , diabetes-pills )
Test kit - diabetes
Ear plugs
Electrical plugs ( european)
Cell Phone/Ipad + cords
Toiletries
reading glasses- 3 pair
Sunglasses-2 pair
Hat
Map Book(Brierly)
Small flashlight
Stones for -Cruz de Ferro ( 3)

 

[annakappa]

Doesn't seem exaggerated, but I am curious about the total of 5 pairs of glasses?!!
No sleeping bag? Anne

 

[Mark Lee]

Doesn't seem exaggerated, but I am curious about the total of 5 pairs of glasses?!!
No sleeping bag? Anne

Ummm....I can relate there. I wear reading glasses and am constantly breaking them, so I buy the cheap ones, so nothing unusual to me to haul around three sets. Same goes for sunglasses. Got to have them, so I bring a spare of that as well.
I don't see a lightweight fleece jacket/pullover on that list. It does get kinda chilly in the morning and evening at times. Nice to have the fleece then. Never wore one walking, though.
I did not have a sleeping bag on either Camino I did (summertime) and usually either slept on top of the mattress (I'm warm natured ) or used a blanket from the albergue. But at times something along the lines of a sleeping bag liner would have been nice. Definitely don't need a heavy, full-sized winter sleeping bag.

 

[DeadFred]

Doesn't seem exaggerated, but I am curious about the total of 5 pairs of glasses?!!
No sleeping bag? Anne

Oops added sleeping bag ... forgot it Anne . Yep , I am always losing /breaking/de-lensing my cheap reading glasses ($1 each ) . One set of sunglasses are for very bright days and the other for overcast gray days as they brighten things up .

 

[cherrys]

The list

Backpack -1
Boots - 2 pair ( now 1 pair)
Flip Flops -1 pair
Sandals -1 pair
Shirts - 3 pair 2 short sleeve /1 long sleeve- /
Pants - 2 pair ( 1shorts , 1 full length
Socks - 4 pair ( 2 wool , 2 inner)
Towel -1 quick dry
Trekking poles
Rain gear - Hooded top-pants/light poncho
Canteen (2 - 1 liter)
Cpap ( sleep apnea) Small , converter & hose
head lamp(led)
Medical kit
Meds ( heart , diabetes-pills )
Test kit - diabetes
Ear plugs
Electrical plugs ( european)
Cell Phone/Ipad + cords
Toiletries
reading glasses- 3 pair
Sunglasses-2 pair
Hat
Map Book(Brierly)
Small flashlight
Stones for -Cruz de Ferro ( 3)

Ok - ditch flashlight or headlight or both. I used just the illumination from my iphone, could have gotten the flashlight app if I'd wanted it, never felt the need. But then I refused to leave in the middle of the night - I wanted to enjoy what I came to see, and my phone worked fine for slightly predawn starts. Rain gear - hard choice with pros and cons on either side, but either top and pants, or poncho, depending on if you have a waterproof pack cover. I took Columbia hiking sandals as well as my boots - they gave my feet a nice change some days, as well as in the evenings and when showering (they were dry almost immediately). Take 1 canteen, then get a reusable/disposable water bottle early on. I put juice in it some mornings, then got a new one if it looked yucky. One Spanish converter plug, and the least you can get away with on cords. I just brought my iphone, used that as camera and to stay in touch with those at home (Viber was wonderful), so I only needed to recharge one thing with one cord. I'm sure others will give more advice too. You do need some sort of fleece though. And a sleeping bag or liner unless you're not planning in staying in albergues. Extra blankets were not always available. And if you only take one pair of reading glasses you'll take better care not to lose them. Good luck with this packing. It's a lot harder than the Camino!. I tormented myself for ages, but was basically satisfied with what I took, will scale down slightly next time. Most useful thing I took, beside my trekking poles, was a set of 3 small varied size waterproof compression sacs from Walmart - about $8 I think. Had clothes in one, toiletries in one and important stuff in smallest (could go into shower with me if necessary). Buen camino - Cherry

 

[cherrys]

By the way, just curious, but does the moniker DeadFred come from Spamalot??? Because that's the song that has been stuck in my head the whole time reading this post!

 

[Bajaracer]

I would ditch the sandals, the small flashlight, and one of the canteens. What's in the medical kit? Hopefully just some band aids and blister stuff, anything else you can buy locally at a farmacia, topical ibuprofen gel is available for sore knees, works way better than Ben-Gay, I bought several tubes before I flew home.

 

[C clearly]

Either the flip flops or the sandals could go, and either the rain jacket or poncho. I'm guessing you will later ditch one canteen and you will "accidentally" lose some of the eye glasses. Otherwise it looks fine.

 

[AJ]

Flip flops are deadly on wet cobblestones as I found out!

 

[tyrrek]

I agree that it's easy enough to buy new boots in the major towns along the Camino. However good boots are expensive even when you have a choice of stores or can wait for the sales to snap up a bargain, which probably will not be the case on the Camino.

When you're choosing boots before your Camino, it's worth finding out what the returns policy of the shop is. On my second Camino Frances my new boots started to fail before the end, although not early/badly enough that I had to replace them. When I got home I took them back to the shop, and when I showed them the crack in the sole they offered me my money back immediately, even though they'd just done a Camino and it showed! Their policy was that boots should last a year no matter how much use they had had.

Knowing that you can get your money back may take the sting out of having to replace them along the way, especially if you're trying to stick to a budget. You still have to get them home, of course, but it might save carrying spare boots from the start 'just in case'.

 

[Al the optimist]

reading glasses- 3 pair
Scared of breaking/losing them? Just get a pair of those from the cheapo shops that fit into a little case as spare if you really feel the need. That way it is little room, no real expense if lost, and easily replaceable in Spain.
Sunglasses-2 pair
Just one again you can buy another pair. A couple of days or so without won't kill you.

 

[Mark Lee]

Ha ha.....
Five pairs of glasses are weight negligible (yeah, yeah, I know, weight of small items in a pack is cumulative). Go ahead and bring them. Believe me you don't want to spend half a day looking for a shop which probably doesn't exist in a small town on the Camino that sells reading glasses or decent sunglasses.....

 

[gml]

This is a slightly different boot question, but I'm wondering if it would be too risky to set off on Chemin du Puy (730 km) in boots that have already walked the Camino Frances. Anyone have experience of wearing the same boots for 1500 km? How much tread does a boot need to be up to the task?

 

[DeadFred]

By the way, just curious, but does the moniker DeadFred come from Spamalot??? Because that's the song that has been stuck in my head the whole time reading this post!

Thanks for the suggestions Cherrys , I appreciate that . The name DeadFred comes from the name of my website Dead Fred's Genealogy Photo Archive www.deadfred.com , once you go there click on the link "Meet Fred"

 

[Mark Lee]

This is a slightly different boot question, but I'm wondering if it would be too risky to set off on Chemin du Puy (730 km) in boots that have already walked the Camino Frances. Anyone have experience of wearing the same boots for 1500 km? How much tread does a boot need to be up to the task?

Good question....both my Merrells look as though they could do another Camino.

 

[dougfitz]

This is a slightly different boot question, but I'm wondering if it would be too risky to set off on Chemin du Puy (730 km) in boots that have already walked the Camino Frances. Anyone have experience of wearing the same boots for 1500 km? How much tread does a boot need to be up to the task?

An excellent question. to which I don't think there is a simple answer to the underlying issue. Yes, I have had boots that have lasted 1500km and more in a combination of training and walking the camino. In 2010, I walked in a pair of Scarpa Trek that I bought in 2004, and had used regularly over the intervening years for bush walking. They had plenty of tread left, even when I traded them in for a larger pair a couple of years ago.

I wore the replacements, a pair of Asolo TP535, on St Olav's Way. At the end of that (about 700km) the soles were showing much more wear than I had expected. They weren't so worn that they couldn't have repeated the trip, but I don't expect to get as many years of use out of them as I did their predecessors.

As for the amount of tread required, based on my experience on the various camino routes, I don't think you really need all that much most of the time. And clearly people walk in shoes with really shallow treads quite successfully. Even if the sole is multi-layer (hard on the outer layer with a softer and more compressible layer underneath) it would be possible to keep going for a while after the outer layer has worn through in places.

 

[peterhore]

An excellent question. to which I don't think there is a simple answer to the underlying issue. Yes, I have had boots that have lasted 1500km and more in a combination of training and walking the camino. In 2010, I walked in a pair of Scarpa Trek that I bought in 2004, and had used regularly over the intervening years for bush walking. They had plenty of tread left, even when I traded them in for a larger pair a couple of years ago.

I wore the replacements, a pair of Asolo TP535, on St Olav's Way. At the end of that (about 700km) the soles were showing much more wear than I had expected. They weren't so worn that they couldn't have repeated the trip, but I don't expect to get as many years of use out of them as I did their predecessors.

As for the amount of tread required, based on my experience on the various camino routes, I don't think you really need all that much most of the time. And clearly people walk in shoes with really shallow treads quite successfully. Even if the sole is multi-layer (hard on the outer layer with a softer and more compressible layer underneath) it would be possible to keep going for a while after the outer layer has worn through in places.

 

[peterhore]

There certainly are a lot of weight-fascists out there. I agree that the pack should be as light as possible, and compared to my self first camino when my pack weighed 17 kg, it's now down to less than a half that. But where does this rule of '10% of body weight' come from? And has any one worked it out? I'm 16 stone/224 lbs/102 kg (or at least I am at the start of a camino) and the '10%' rule would allow me a 10+ kg pack which IMHO is far too much. On the other hand my daughter is a diddy little thing - 8 stone/112 lbs/51 kg - and the '10%' rule would only allow her a 5 kg pack, which is too little.

In my experience those boastful people who claim to have the lightest packs haven't counted their day's rations (if any), their water or the layers of clothing they are wearing, cameras, etc.

So I wonder if we all adopted the same standard, eg pack, water, rainwear, camera, phone, sandals, 1 litre water, etc in fact everything except the clothes we stood up in, what would be the average and/or the minimum?

For amusement I've spent part of the evening repacking my bag (how sad is that?) and, including my very ancient notebook PC (but I can us to charge camera and phone), and a small bottle of suntan cream (which I usually forget) it comes to 8.5 kg - or as my partner tells me in her own logic, I have to lose 37 lbs or 17 kilos.

(And DeadFred - dump the third of everything (shirts etc) , all those leads and cables, the flipflops, the canteen (use a plastic bottle), the medical kit (very Spanish villages has 1. a bar and 2. a pharmacy), the flashlight (use your phone if you must), and buen camino.)

Pedro el gris

 

[Tincatinker]

There are several good debates on the 10% rule to be found on the forum. Most quote various internet sources. This from the renowned Mark Verber's guide to light weight back-packing: "A Swiss military report suggests that everyone has a backpack weight threshold at which they become significantly more encumbered. They determined this weight by measuring how much it takes for a person's balance-time to degrade by 20%. You can determine your balance-time degradation by measuring the time that you can stand on one foot without your pack, and then compare that to the time you can do so with your pack on. Apparently the Swiss military sought to optimize the performance of 'light fast' special-forces types. They found that for their typical soldier, balance degraded by 20% when wearing a pack weight between 8% and 10% of their lean body weight. The degree to which the pack carrier's balance degrades directly relates to the rate at which they'll become fatigued. This study suggests ways to improve your backpacking experience. The traditional guideline of 25% to 40% given by some how-to books on backpacking would seem quite high by these standards, so you should try to go lighter. Experiment with loading your pack to minimize the degradation of your balance time."

No sign of an actual citation of course and semi rigorous searching hasn't found another Swiss source. However, potentially more reliable (?) statements can be found on http://kidshealth.org/parent/firstaid_safe/outdoor/backpack.html and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17430435 though the most authorative statements on the 10% rule and the most vigorous discussion can, of course, be found a thttps://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/the-10-rule.14786/

I still can't carry more than a toothbrush and a spare pair of knickers, which simplifies packing no end.

 

[dougfitz]

@Tincatinker thank you for the links. They make a great addition to the debate on this matter. I have a view that using from the skin out measures is more effective as a planning tool, and knowing one's ideal walking weight is also important. If, like me, someone is carrying a bit more weight than is ideal, they shouldn't be using their actual weight as the basis for their weight planning!

Here are a couple of my posts on this that explain how a FSO approach works.

Caitlen, I agree with others about this being a great effort, but at risk of offending those who hold the 10% rule inviolate, it is something akin to a magic number - endowed with great significance but with unexplained meaning and whose origins are indistinct if at all traceable.

Some traceable facts

• the CSJ website now advises pack weight of 10-15% of body weight. Some people have earlier guides from the CSJ that use just the lower figure, but this doesn't reflect their current advice.
• 'The Complete Walker IV, a classic for hikers, suggests a maximum FSO (from the skin out) of 1/3 of body weight for 'backpacking as an enjoyment p.54
• It also suggests that reasonable hiking loads would be between 1/4 and 1/5 of body weight, noting that this is for multi-day hiking in wilderness areas where one needs to be carrying more food than is required on the Camino.
• The CSJ recommended packing list for someone like me who wears L or XL clothing exceeds 10% of my body weight before it goes into a pack. In my case, the CSJ list weights 8500gm compared to a 10% target of 7500gm. It is well within the 15% upper limit when in a pack. Note this includes 1li of water, but no food.

Using the Complete Walker 20% FSO for your circumstances, you would have:

• a FSO target weight of 11kg
• you say you are wearing 1.58kg, leaving 9.42kg
• your current gear list and pack comes in at 5.67kg. leaving 3.75kg
• if you allocate 2kg to water and food, you have a residual of 1.75kg
• which you don't have to use, but you could carry more and still stay within this target.

The same analysis using the CSJ upper band of 15% would be:

• a target pack weight of 8.25kg
• you say you are currently carrying 5.67kg, leaving 2.58kg
• if you allocate 2kg to water and food, you have a residual of 0.58kg
• which is about 1/3 of other approach, but you could carry a little more and stay within this target.

So what is the meaning of it all? To borrow a phrase - to walk far, carry less.

My own experience is that I can achieve 16-20km a day carrying 20kg, a bit more with a push, when I am bush walking on good tracks. With a 10kg load, I have managed ~72km in two days, which I did three days before walking the Camino in 2010. Unladen, I have done 50km in a day and backed up to add 18km the next day, or 60km in a day and not walked the following day.

I think this is pretty powerful evidence, but it doesn't establish a limit, just a general observation that the more one carries, the shorter one's comfortable daily distances will be.

The other side of the trade-off is that extreme weight saving become extremely uncomfortable in one way or another, and also extremely expensive (or so my wife would have you believe!).

Regards,

ps if you you would need to count that as extra insulations, and add it to your carried load, not use it to calculate pack weight

markss et al,

I have commented elsewhere about that magic 10% advice, eg at this topic thread -->> http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/equipment-questions/topic12663.html.

The other issue is that, as has been noted, newbies need good advice, and merely saying that 10% is not good advice doesn't help, and is likely to leave them uncertain about what to do. I must admit that I think the CSJ website advice of 10-15% of body weight is reasonably sound, and newbies are well served by it.

I also think that those who advocate lower targets should declare whether they are ultra-light fanatics capable of sleeping on bare rock, are prepared to spend a fortune on buying the latest gear to save a few 10s of grams, and what risks they are prepared to take.

My most recent experience on St Olav's Way with another pilgrim who had 'packed light' was that she she was continually asking people for help because she wasn't carrying something that she found she really needed. She tried that on me one day, and I helped. She did the same a few days later, when I better understood her modus operandi, and got short shrift. Maybe not as pilgrim like as it might have been, I'm afraid, but it happened.

Regards,

Lastly, whether one uses the '10% rule' or a 20% FSO, these are targets. Getting under the target is great, and will make walking easier, but the world doesn't collapse if one exceeds it (a little).

 

[AJ]

(And DeadFred - dump the third of everything (shirts etc)

I would keep the third pair of socks. I have been in the situation of having two pairs wet in bad weather. OK you can wear wet socks...and risk blisters, and there is the old army trick of wearing wet socks to bed, but for the sake of carrying another pair of socks...??

 

[AJ]

This is a slightly different boot question, but I'm wondering if it would be too risky to set off on Chemin du Puy (730 km) in boots that have already walked the Camino Frances. Anyone have experience of wearing the same boots for 1500 km? How much tread does a boot need to be up to the task?

I have just done almost 2000 km (Piedmont-Frances-Portugues) in carbon rubber soles - a first. I usually get around 1200 - 1500. They were in really shocking condition when I finished. With vibram soles I have done 2000km more than once. Again, not in such good condition at the finish, but better than carbon rubber. I am heavy and have no fear of bitumen.

 

[DeadFred]

Great discussion and tremendous answers & suggestions , thank you !. Understanding that this is our first Camino and being somewhat apprehensive ,packing some dump-ables will most likely happen . Once we get warm & fuzzy in our Camino Skins we can adjust .
Staying home are 1 pair of boots , 1 canteen . Once there my pills will be sorted out into small plastic bags and the containers dumped. Shedding clothes as an option still to be determined.

I noticed no one mentioned the scallop shell as something to be abandoned so I plan to purchase one still.

 

[Scott Sweeney]

One little known factoid is that when in a pinch two scallop shells can be used as a second pair of boots.

 

[Al the optimist]

And if inverted and fitted with engines can be used as mini hovercraft?

 

[DeadFred]

Sure hope the scallop tastes good when I open it . Never tasted a Pied de Scallop

 

[Scott Sweeney]

There certainly are a lot of weight-fascists out there. I agree that the pack should be as light as possible, and compared to my self first camino when my pack weighed 17 kg, it's now down to less than a half that. But where does this rule of '10% of body weight' come from? And has any one worked it out? I'm 16 stone/224 lbs/102 kg (or at least I am at the start of a camino) and the '10%' rule would allow me a 10+ kg pack which IMHO is far too much. On the other hand my daughter is a diddy little thing - 8 stone/112 lbs/51 kg - and the '10%' rule would only allow her a 5 kg pack, which is too little.

In my experience those boastful people who claim to have the lightest packs haven't counted their day's rations (if any), their water or the layers of clothing they are wearing, cameras, etc.

So I wonder if we all adopted the same standard, eg pack, water, rainwear, camera, phone, sandals, 1 litre water, etc in fact everything except the clothes we stood up in, what would be the average and/or the minimum?

For amusement I've spent part of the evening repacking my bag (how sad is that?) and, including my very ancient notebook PC (but I can us to charge camera and phone), and a small bottle of suntan cream (which I usually forget) it comes to 8.5 kg - or as my partner tells me in her own logic, I have to lose 37 lbs or 17 kilos.

(And DeadFred - dump the third of everything (shirts etc) , all those leads and cables, the flipflops, the canteen (use a plastic bottle), the medical kit (very Spanish villages has 1. a bar and 2. a pharmacy), the flashlight (use your phone if you must), and buen camino.)

Pedro el gris

And a florist,

 

[Kanga]

I've examined your list @DeadFred and no-where can I find an electric coil, a hair dryer, a lightweight tent, a Swiss army knife (with corkscrew), nappy pins or duct tape.......

 

[DeadFred]

I've examined your list @DeadFred and no-where can I find an electric coil, a hair dryer, a lightweight tent, a Swiss army knife (with corkscrew), nappy pins or duct tape.......

And you won't , I've switched them out for a six pack of Dos Equis ( Stay Thirsty My Friend )

 

[Magnara]

This is a slightly different boot question, but I'm wondering if it would be too risky to set off on Chemin du Puy (730 km) in boots that have already walked the Camino Frances. Anyone have experience of wearing the same boots for 1500 km? How much tread does a boot need to be up to the task?

My beloved boots have now walked three caminos (Frances, Via Francigena and Le Puy) so including local hiking at home they have taken me close to 3000 km. They are so comfortable. so perfect etc etc. I do get them re-soled each time, though to give me nice new grippy soles.
Maggie Ramsay
(The Italian Camino - Amazon)

 

[david g]

Great discussion and tremendous answers & suggestions , thank you !. Understanding that this is our first Camino and being somewhat apprehensive ,packing some dump-ables will most likely happen . Once we get warm & fuzzy in our Camino Skins we can adjust .
Staying home are 1 pair of boots , 1 canteen . Once there my pills will be sorted out into small plastic bags and the containers dumped. Shedding clothes as an option still to be determined.

I noticed no one mentioned the scallop shell as something to be abandoned so I plan to purchase one still.

I think most all of us have had the same line of thinking before our first Caminos. All those "what ifs" come up and we try to allow for any and every eventuality. Ditching the boots and canteen-good idea. I just bought a bottle of juice or Gatorade, then used that for the next few days or until it got funky, then bought another one. If you find that third set of clothes is unnecessary, leave it at an albergue. What you leave behind in a donation box may be just the thing someone else needs.

 

[J Willhaus]

And you won't , I've switched them out for a six pack of Dos Equis ( Stay Thirsty My Friend )

I am guessing you might be on your Camino now and I am wondering how the CPAP machine has fared? My husband has one and we have been discussing whether we need to look for a smaller one for our Camino in 2016. Also wondering if you are able to stay places where you can actually plug it in and use it. If you are using a battery powered one, where do you recharge batteries, etc.

 

[dougfitz]

I am guessing you might be on your Camino now and I am wondering how the CPAP machine has fared? My husband has one and we have been discussing whether we need to look for a smaller one for our Camino in 2016. Also wondering if you are able to stay places where you can actually plug it in and use it. If you are using a battery powered one, where do you recharge batteries, etc.

@DeadFred, I would also be interested in your experiences here. @David's earlier comment that CPAP means Comfortable Pilgrim Accessories Pack is close to the mark. I know that without it, I am a snorer. So taking my CPAP certainly would make it more comfortable for other pilgrims at night. But I'm almost certain that none of them would be volunteering to help with the load to achieve that comfort!

 

[Kerrnell]

I'm boarding my flight for Madrid in five days and a wake-up .. My pack is heavy . I need to jettison something. Everything I have is essential except for maybe the extra pair of boots I once thought were essential.

I hear that I don't really need them and I hear that I absolutely need them. I am reaching out to you the seasoned Camino veterans of the forum for opinions on what YOU think is right for you. Reading your comments will help me possibly resolve my waffling. ( and maybe help some other novice too)

Gracias
Joe

You are insane if you are carrying more than 8kg. 5-6kg is doable. We like many, many others posted gear ahead after a couple of days. Save yourself the trouble and cut back, cut back, cut back

 

[saltwaterpearl]

You are insane if you are carrying more than 8kg. 5-6kg is doable. We like many, many others posted gear ahead after a couple of days. Save yourself the trouble and cut back, cut back, cut back

Careful - that is a strong and inaccurate statement. There is nothing magical about the number "8", and one is not "insane" for carrying more.

I am an experienced hiker, and can comfortably carry a sub-20 lb pack for extended periods of time. So up to 9 kg is not an issue for me.
My boyfriend and hiking partner can comfortably carry 11-12 kg for extended hikes.

In general, less weight on the back is better..... but there are many other factors in play that contribute to an enjoyable multi-day hiking experience. These include the quality of gear, personal fitness, excellent footwear and a well-fitted pack, and finding a (very personal) balance of necessities, luxuries/comfort and convenience in one's belongings.

 

[DeadFred]

I am guessing you might be on your Camino now and I am wondering how the CPAP machine has fared? My husband has one and we have been discussing whether we need to look for a smaller one for our Camino in 2016. Also wondering if you are able to stay places where you can actually plug it in and use it. If you are using a battery powered one, where do you recharge batteries, etc.

J. Wilhaus & dougfitz

I own a Rispironics ( Pic) . It's not very heavy , actually it's about the same weight as converter , put together with the hose and mask it makes for a package that you can curse at each day but doesn't weight much .. 4 1/2 lb , I'm going back in 2016 and my plan is NOT to take this .

Originally , I viewed my upcoming camino as a spontaneous , serendipitous adventure living the event in the moment . With a CPAP I lost that ,,, the CPAP was like taking a not so favorite pet having to plan out each day so we could find a place that accommodates . Don't get me wrong I LOVED my camino , even with the "Machine" but I had to make my plans fit for the CPAP . Every day I had to call ahead a reserve a private room making certain I could plug in . This inconvenience took away from the crowded " Alburge' experience , plus I felt isolated and on top of that I had to pay more for the isolation.

Could I have forgone the PAP and taken to snoring ? Unfortunately no as my apnea is at the moment bad enough to cause moderate risk to life and limb . If it wasn't I would have unquestionably joined the snorer ranks and left the CPAP at the house .

Word of caution.... have a backup plan in place just in case your machine goes on the blink . Mine broke 3 weeks after I returned home ( whew , close one !) . My Rispironics Rep was able to give me a loaner until mine was fixed ... If I was in Los Arcos when it broke I would have been in Dark City .

As it turned out , We made it to Logrono when my hip gave out and we had to call it. (The "Hip" problem turned out to be 2 slip discs lower lumbar .. another close one)

So Sept 2016 I am going back alone healthy enough for No CPAP and sporting a fixed back .....

Buen Camino
Joe

 

[J Willhaus]

J. Wilhaus & dougfitz

I own a Rispironics ( Pic) . It's not very heavy , actually it's about the same weight as converter , put together with the hose and mask it makes for a package that you can curse at each day but doesn't weight much .. 4 1/2 lb , I'm going back in 2016 and my plan is NOT to take this .

Originally , I viewed my upcoming camino as a spontaneous , serendipitous adventure living the event in the moment . With a CPAP I lost that ,,, the CPAP was like taking a not so favorite pet having to plan out each day so we could find a place that accommodates . Don't get me wrong I LOVED my camino , even with the "Machine" but I had to make my plans fit for the CPAP . Every day I had to call ahead a reserve a private room making certain I could plug in . This inconvenience took away from the crowded " Alburge' experience , plus I felt isolated and on top of that I had to pay more for the isolation.

Could I have forgone the PAP and taken to snoring ? Unfortunately no as my apnea is at the moment bad enough to cause moderate risk to life and limb . If it wasn't I would have unquestionably joined the snorer ranks and left the CPAP at the house .

Word of caution.... have a backup plan in place just in case your machine goes on the blink . Mine broke 3 weeks after I returned home ( whew , close one !) . My Rispironics Rep was able to give me a loaner until mine was fixed ... If I was in Los Arcos when it broke I would have been in Dark City .

As it turned out , We made it to Logrono when my hip gave out and we had to call it. (The "Hip" problem turned out to be 2 slip discs lower lumbar .. another close one)

So Sept 2016 I am going back alone healthy enough for No CPAP and sporting a fixed back .....

Buen Camino
Joe

Thanks so much for the response. My husband does sleep without his CPAP periodically for shorter camping trips, but it is troubling to lie in a backpacking tent miles from civilization and listen to him snore and then stop breathing for what seems like forever. I am thinking the Camino would be very hard on him, me, and other pilgrims without the machine. He has two machines now. He has an older one for traveling in case of loss or breakage, and one for home which is newer and quieter. We'll probably be on the lookout for a newer, smaller, travel model. I hear there are some that are about 2 pounds including battery. Does yours have a battery? Others in different areas of the forum have indicated they thought the battery might not be needed. So sorry to hear of your back problems and we will pray for your recovery. We'll let you know if we find something smaller and lighter which might serve you for your return to the Camino. We hope to go in May 2016 so your experiences this year will help us know what we need to plan for and expect

 

[mikevasey]

As it turned out , We made it to Logrono when my hip gave out and we had to call it. (The "Hip" problem turned out to be 2 slip discs lower lumbar .. another close one)

So Sept 2016 I am going back alone healthy enough for No CPAP and sporting a fixed back .....

Buen Camino
Joe

Sounds like you have got the bug, hope everything goes well in your preperations.

Buen Camino

 

[DeadFred]

Does yours have a battery?

No battery . Would have been nice if that was the case , however I would really need to test it out before I committed to 2+ months on the trek . I have work to do in the next 18 months getting myself ready for part 2 .

Good luck on your preparation and selection for your husbands Camino CPAP .. its important . No matter what you decide .... Have a {{BALL!}} .. it's really an incredible experience .