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2019 Camino Guides

Sign for pilgrims

Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#1
We* are creating this sign to avoid the use of plastic bottles. In Portugal its a BIG problem.
Please give us your feed back if the message is clear?
canteen.jpg
* www.caminho.com.pt
 
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#2
To me it would be BETTER if it said Do not DROP plastic water bottles on The Way.
And "canteen" here in the USA may mean something different than in Portugal.
Here it means this (unless I'm just old and out of the loop?)
 

Attachments

stratophile

Active Member
#4
Personally, I prefer an approach that encourages participation / cooperation rather than sounding like a command or directive. Also, I suggest using "Caminho" even in the English portion rather than "the way". Thus, something like: "Please don't dispose of plastic water bottles on the Caminho".

Good project, though – kudos on taking the initiative!
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#5
To me it would be BETTER if it said Do not DROP plastic water bottles on The Way.
And "canteen" here in the USA may mean something different than in Portugal.
Here it means this (unless I'm just old and out of the loop?)
Thank a lot Annie for your comments. In Portugal some pilgrim easily use 6 half litre bottles per day.
So we want to recomend to avoid the use.
What do you call aluminium water bottle like this?

aluminium-water-bottle-500x500.jpg
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#6
I would ditto Annie on this. Why not use plastic bottles? But do refill them at the fuente or a bar, don't buy new ones several times each day. And then maybe even drop them somewhere inappropriate.
Agree 100% thank you KinkyOne.
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#8
Personally, I prefer an approach that encourages participation / cooperation rather than sounding like a command or directive. Also, I suggest using "Caminho" even in the English portion rather than "the way". Thus, something like: "Please don't dispose of plastic water bottles on the Caminho".

Good project, though – kudos on taking the initiative!
Thank you Stratophile.
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#9
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#10
What about:
USE AN ALTERNATIVE. DO NOT USE PLASTIC WATER BOTTLES ON THE CAMINHO. ?
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#13
Alternative: "Keep it beautiful! Don't dispose of plastic water bottles on the Caminho"
If I understand correctly, the idea is to reduce the use of plastic water bottles as such. I can't help with a good slogan. But this reminds me of a campaign on the trail to the Annapurna Sanctuary where they started a similar campaign many years ago. If I remember correctly, they not only tried to ban the sale of water in single use bottles, they also installed a system along the trail where one could fill/buy water for one's own reusable container. Website (perhaps for some inspiration for terminology?): http://www.plasticfreehimalaya.org

Best of luck to @Rodrigo Cerqueira !
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#15
Thank a lot Annie for your comments. In Portugal some pilgrim easily use 6 half litre bottles per day.
So we want to recomend to avoid the use.
What do you call aluminium water bottle like this?

View attachment 47116
Well, on Amazon you find them by searching on Sports Water Bottles or Aluminum Water Bottles.
 

Houlet

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2014
Via de la Plata 2015
Camino Sanabres 2015
Camino Norde 2017
#16
Today's popular "cause" is reducing plastic, and I support it, however I would rephrase it into "Don't use unnecessary Plastic" A disposable plastic water bottle if used, and reused, and disposed of properly is not a problem. Personally, I buy bottled water once, and refill the bottles throughout my journey. In the past I have had plastic, and aluminium water bottles and I don't like either.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
#17
Today's popular "cause" is reducing plastic, and I support it, however I would rephrase it into "Don't use unnecessary Plastic" A disposable plastic water bottle if used, and reused, and disposed of properly is not a problem. Personally, I buy bottled water once, and refill the bottles throughout my journey. In the past I have had plastic, and aluminium water bottles and I don't like either.
I agree, and think my suggestion covers that with fewer letters on the sign.
"Please use re-fillable water bottles. Do not litter Caminho with plastic."
 

notion900

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
>
#18
What a great campaign.

I think you have to be more positive sounding and avoid Don'ts
eg REFILL for a plastic free camino
Then you are not telling people exactly what kind of bottle is acceptable or not, as long as it's refilled. 'Plastic free' is a positive phrase used in a lot of campaigning right now, people know what it's referring to.

You should also change the image of the bottle to one or more that you do want people to use, rather than the one you don't, so it's more positive. Eg silhouettes of metal refillable, gym /bike type bottle, collapsible bottle (platypus type) You could print the text on the bottles as if they were the labels. You also need a spanish text I think.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
#20
Re-use, refill, recycle. Keep your Camino clutter-free.
A variation...
"Re-use, refill, recycle. Keep your Camino really clean!"

(I was thinking that "clutter" is not a word that all people with limited English would understand.)

This is kind of fun. The OP could select some finalists and make a poll!
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#21
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Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#22
If I understand correctly, the idea is to reduce the use of plastic water bottles as such. I can't help with a good slogan. But this reminds me of a campaign on the trail to the Annapurna Sanctuary where they started a similar campaign many years ago. If I remember correctly, they not only tried to ban the sale of water in single use bottles, they also installed a system along the trail where one could fill/buy water for one's own reusable container. Website (perhaps for some inspiration for terminology?): http://www.plasticfreehimalaya.org

Best of luck to @Rodrigo Cerqueira !
Thanks a lot Katharina for the good inspiration. I love the wider concept of “plastics free” Caminho.
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#23
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#24
Today's popular "cause" is reducing plastic, and I support it, however I would rephrase it into "Don't use unnecessary Plastic" A disposable plastic water bottle if used, and reused, and disposed of properly is not a problem. Personally, I buy bottled water once, and refill the bottles throughout my journey. In the past I have had plastic, and aluminium water bottles and I don't like either.
Thank you Houlet. In Portugal we have big problem with pilgrims and the disposable water bottles... In a five days pilgrimage a Portuguese pilgrim going to Fatima can use 30 bottles... Reuse is a good alternative but we have to raise awareness to this problem so we will ask pilgrims to avoid buying disposable water bottles.
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#25
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
#26
In 2015 on the CF in or near Galicia I dropped some cans into a small recycle bin at a bar and was almost immediately given a hat by some recycling volunteers that were there. At first I declined so they would have it available for another but I reconsidered, gave them a donation for the hat and I wore it for the rest of the Way.

Consider having some signs at recycle bins like that so when empty bottles are deposited the message that the bottles can be reused first is seen.

Sorry, I've tried numerous times and numerous ways but I can't seem to be able to attach a picture of the hat. It is probably because I'm using a not-so-smartphone.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata.
#28
Our state has just introduced a 10c deposit on all drinks sold in plastic or glass containers. So you get back 10c when you return them to a recycling depot. Single use plastic bags were also recently banned in supermarkets. It will be interesting to see if these measures help.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#29
I like the design. It's immediately obvious from the shape that this is about plastic water bottles and the cross indicates immediately that there is something wrong about them. It made me curious to find out what it's about. And that's the aim: to get people's attention.

Maybe others with more UX experience can chime in: I've been told that it's better to use small letters instead of capital letters for messages that are longer than just a few words.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#30
Thanks a lot for this collaborative work to protect our world.
Your collaboration changed the English text but also changed the Portuguese text for a wider concept.
This is a free checklist for pilgrims that are preparing the first Caminho that it will be available on our website https://www.caminho.com.pt/index_e.html

Bellow its another challenge about the problem of lost dogs on the Caminho.
Please give us your feed back if the message is clear?
canteen.jpg cães.jpg
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#31
Our state has just introduced a 10c deposit on all drinks sold in plastic or glass containers. So you get back 10c when you return them to a recycling depot. Single use plastic bags were also recently banned in supermarkets. It will be interesting to see if these measures help.
Simple and very effective solution... Thank you Kanga.
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJPDP-Finisterre X 2, El Norte incompleto
#34
Thanks a lot for this collaborative work to protect our world.
Your collaboration changed the English text but also changed the Portuguese text for a wider concept.
This is a free checklist for pilgrims that are preparing the first Caminho that it will be available on our website https://www.caminho.com.pt/index_e.html

Bellow its another challenge about the problem of lost dogs on the Caminho.
Please give us your feed back if the message is clear?
View attachment 47121 View attachment 47124
The "re-use, refill, recycle..." is a great slogan and to the point. And I think that positive messages - telling what to do, rather than what not to do can be more effective.

Our state has just introduced a 10c deposit on all drinks sold in plastic or glass containers.
In 1971, my state of Oregon was the first state in the US to institute this type of deposit.
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#35
Thank you Rick
Its a great hat that you will never forget how you have earn it. In Portugal we have a lot of garbage containers, but some pilgrims are lazy and don´t care... We have to keep trying to raise awareness with hats, campaigns and talking to other pilgrims...
 
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Camino(s) past & future
SJPDP-Finisterre X 2, El Norte incompleto
#36
I would NEVER suggest to refill plastic water bottles. Cheryl Crow credits her getting breast cancer to drinking from plastic water bottles left in a hot car. Stick with stainless steel!
https://www.rd.com/health/wellness/never-refill-plastic-water-bottles/
Just because Cheryl Crow believes that she got breast cancer from reusing plastic water bottles doesn't make it true!
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/ab...roversies/plastic-bottles-and-food-containers

https://www.businessinsider.com/safety-plastic-water-bottle-reuse-2016-2
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#37
Typo in the dogs text. Codle - I think you mean cuddle or coddle. But that isn't the best word, cuddling and coddling is for children. Pat, pet or stroke is better.
Thanks a lot for the great tips :)
 
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Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#39
@Rodrigo Cerqueira I'd go with your first idea. I think it is great. Clear and unambiguous. I would not change a thing.

Asking people for an opinion on this forum is a dangerous thing!
Thanks Kanga.
About the dogs or the plastic?
I know that's almost impossible to be in tune with every comment. In the Caminho you don´t like to walk with everyone. But I have learned a lot from those pilgrims that think different... Because English isn´t my native language the feedback from of other English native speaking helps me a lot to understand other pilgrims experiences and points of view besides my.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata.
#40
@Rodrigo Cerqueira about the plastic bottles - your first post in the thread. I thought that sign was perfect.

The dog sign is also good - except for the word codle. And I agree, "cuddle" is not the right word - it needs to be changed to "pet" or "pat". My preference is for "pet" - as in "do not feed or pet dogs along the way" etc.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
#41
Thank a lot Annie for your comments. In Portugal some pilgrim easily use 6 half litre bottles per day.
So we want to recommend to avoid the use.
What do you call aluminium water bottle like this?
I'm sorry but I don't see the point in this. I sometimes carry 6 plastic bottles.
I never throw them away..... I reuse them!

I do not want to carry a metal bottle. Sorry.

I think the message is ........ don't dispose of plastic bottles along the way.

If mine break or split I put them in a recycling bin and replace them. But usually they last all the way.

I'm not sure of the details, but I suspect your metal bottle might actually be less environmentally friendly. How are they made?
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
#42
Thanks a lot for this collaborative work to protect our world.
Your collaboration changed the English text but also changed the Portuguese text for a wider concept.
This is a free checklist for pilgrims that are preparing the first Caminho that it will be available on our website https://www.caminho.com.pt/index_e.html

Bellow its another challenge about the problem of lost dogs on the Caminho.
Please give us your feed back if the message is clear?
View attachment 47121 View attachment 47124
I think the dog sign is a good idea.

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of the "Plan your camino" checklist"?
It's a bit too simple isn't it?.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Mozarabe Almeria (2017)
Cherhill to Canterbury - Pilgrims' Way (2018)
Via Francigena (2019)
#43
People have made some great suggestions about the important things. Here are a couple of minor suggestions about less important points:
1) "Identical distance" - probably more natural to say "the same distance."
2) "Cut nails and depilation at most one week before the pilgrimage." - I'm not sure what this means and what the reason might be. Perhaps someone else can suggest a clearer instruction. (Perhaps it's "Avoid cutting nails or removing hair for at least a week before the pilgrimage?")
3) Start and re-connect. I don't know what this means. (Perhaps "Start your walk and keep in touch with your contacts"?)
4) Typesetting of the message about dogs is hard to read. It needs more space between words (e.g. Follow you) and it is easier to read if you avoid ALL CAPITALS. Better to use a bold typeface or underline key words for emphasis.
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#44
I'm sorry but I don't see the point in this. I sometimes carry 6 plastic bottles.
I never throw them away..... I reuse them!

I do not want to carry a metal bottle. Sorry.

I think the message is ........ don't dispose of plastic bottles along the way.

If mine break or split I put them in a recycling bin and replace them. But usually they last all the way.

I'm not sure of the details, but I suspect your metal bottle might actually be less environmentally friendly. How are they made?
Sorry Robo but I don’t agree with you. Leaving a trace of plastic (well disposed/or badly dispoded) behind your caminho isn’t a good idea. I understand you don’t like a metal water bottle. You can find reusable plastic water bottles. Each new bottle you buy is a environment, energy and money cost. With a reusable bottle of plastic, metal, leather, glass, you only spend the energy, the environment impact, and your money one time.
The only advantage of the disposable water bottles is quality of the water. Theoretically it’s better. Thank you.
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#45
I think the dog sign is a good idea.

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of the "Plan your camino" checklist"?
It's a bit too simple isn't it?.
Thank you Robo.
I agree with you this is a very simple check list, it’s made for beginners.
It helps avoiding the tipical problems we detect when we talk to first time pilgrims. On our website you can find detailed information that will help pilgrims dig deeper http://caminho.com.pt/index_e.html.
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#46
People have made some great suggestions about the important things. Here are a couple of minor suggestions about less important points:
1) "Identical distance" - probably more natural to say "the same distance."
2) "Cut nails and depilation at most one week before the pilgrimage." - I'm not sure what this means and what the reason might be. Perhaps someone else can suggest a clearer instruction. (Perhaps it's "Avoid cutting nails or removing hair for at least a week before the pilgrimage?")
3) Start and re-connect. I don't know what this means. (Perhaps "Start your walk and keep in touch with your contacts"?)
4) Typesetting of the message about dogs is hard to read. It needs more space between words (e.g. Follow you) and it is easier to read if you avoid ALL CAPITALS. Better to use a bold typeface or underline key words for emphasis.
Thanks a lot Raggy for your suggestions. The 1° and 2° suggestions are perfect. The 3° “re-connect” its a double meaning word translated from the Latin word “religare” that is the origin of the “religion” We try with this game of words a double meaning that allow pilgrims who are religious to understand the meaning, For Pilgrims that aren’t religious I hope that pilgrims will understand this words has a “reconnection” with life, nature, culture, others...
The 4° All Capital letters option its because the small size of the printed final document. ( if pilgrims decide to print )
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
#47
Sorry Robo but I don’t agree with you. Leaving a trace of plastic (well disposed/or badly dispoded) behind your caminho isn’t a good idea. I understand you don’t like a metal water bottle. You can find reusable plastic water bottles. Each new bottle you buy is a environment, energy and money cost. With a reusable bottle of plastic, metal, leather, glass, you only spend the energy, the environment impact, and your money one time.
The only advantage of the disposable water bottles is quality of the water. Theoretically it’s better. Thank you.
We will agree to disagree ;)
The point I was making, is that whilst I use 'disposable' bottles, I don't dispose of them.
I reuse them...........
But I will investigate lightweight 'reusable' bottles to keep you happy ;)

Can anyone advise where to find 600 ml reusable water bottles that weight less than 30 gms?
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Camino Mozarabe Almeria (2017)
Cherhill to Canterbury - Pilgrims' Way (2018)
Via Francigena (2019)
#48
We will agree to disagree ;)
Lightweight bottles exist at a higher cost than your approach. As you must know, the more robust bottles are necessarily a bit bulkier than single-use / disposable plastics. But I think your question about 600ml bottles is rhetorical, isn't it?
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Mozarabe Almeria (2017)
Cherhill to Canterbury - Pilgrims' Way (2018)
Via Francigena (2019)
#49
The 4° All Capital letters option its because the small size of the printed final document. ( if pilgrims decide to print )
It might seem counter-intuitive, but all caps is harder to scan and read than normal type - especially if the text is small. Readers can easily scan the "shape" of words in lower case, which is not possible in all caps.
This rule apples to print and digital design.
https://blog.prototypr.io/all-caps-on-ui-good-or-bad-2570f14dc457
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-Burgos 2012, Burgos-Muxia 2013, Chemin de la Liberte 2014, Camino Ingles 2016, Rabanal 2017
#50
Rodrigo is right: do not use plastic bottles on the Way.
Elsewhere on this forum I have campaigned for single-use plastic bottles to be banned. They are a scourge at all times, in all places, not least on the Camino, see https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...d-of-plastic-on-the-camino.54207/#post-605888
There are plenty of alternatives available, including lightweight metal containers and heavy duty plastic bottles, which can be readily refilled along the Camino. For the squeamish, Brita also make a make bottle with a filter, but the tap water is drinkable throughout Spain and Portugal.
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
#51
Rodrigo is right: do not use plastic bottles on the Way.
Elsewhere on this forum I have campaigned for single-use plastic bottles to be banned. They are a scourge at all times, in all places, not least on the Camino, see https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...d-of-plastic-on-the-camino.54207/#post-605888
There are plenty of alternatives available, including lightweight metal containers and heavy duty plastic bottles, which can be readily refilled along the Camino. For the squeamish, Brita also make a make bottle with a filter, but the tap water is drinkable throughout Spain and Portugal.
There are some of us that are re-using/re-filling what you call "single-use plastic bottles" for a whole month or two while on the Camino. Why would I carry much bulkier and heavier metal or sturdy plastic water container???
Buying new bottled water each day in a country with excellent water in public fountains well that's just something I won't name. And a huge amount of single-used plastic bottles. That's the problem.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#52
the tap water is drinkable throughout Spain and Portugal.
I support @Rodrigo Cerqueira's campaign. I'm aware of the plastics litter in the oceans, of plastic micro-particles, of the litter problem on and off our public places. I own about 5 Sigma bottles of various sizes and have used them on many treks. At the risk of being ostracized forever: I don't take them with me on the Camino. I do refill empty mineral water bottles with tap water from time to time. Most of the time, I don't like the taste of tap water. Yes, I do know that other people don't get this. So I do buy mineral water in plastic bottles. Admittedly, I've not sampled water from every tap along the CF (no idea about Portugal) but the only one that tasted really really good to me was the one from the spring below the picnic area on the other side of the road at the Cruz de Ferro.

My town hall administration has recently introduced household waste bags for plastics only. I'm amazed/horrified how much of our household waste is plastic: plastic wrappings for cheese, ham and sausages, plastic boxes for fruit and vegetables, joghurt containers, small clear plastic bags for all sorts of food items, the list is endless. I've not actually measured it but it seems that all this stuff creates more waste volume than the empty mineral water bottles we dispose of (incidentally in a different household waste bag).

I've not really looked into the science and recycling methods but know that commercially sold mineral water bottles are PET bottles nowadays.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Planning Italy to Finisterre and back (20xx)
#53
I would NEVER suggest to refill plastic water bottles. Cheryl Crow credits her getting breast cancer to drinking from plastic water bottles left in a hot car. Stick with stainless steel!
https://www.rd.com/health/wellness/never-refill-plastic-water-bottles/
When I was backpacking in Spain 20 years ago I once used disposable plastic bottles, after a sunny morning the water became undrinkable (they where in the side pokets of the pack). It tasted like chemicals. From there on only metal bottles or Nalgene style for me.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Planning Italy to Finisterre and back (20xx)
#54
We will agree to disagree ;)
The point I was making, is that whilst I use 'disposable' bottles, I don't dispose of them.
I reuse them...........
But I will investigate lightweight 'reusable' bottles to keep you happy ;)

Can anyone advise where to find 600 ml reusable water bottles that weight less than 30 gms?
This is the best I have, but can't exclude there are better bottles out there. Mine are very cheap from less than 2 euros to less than 7.
The metal one and the green one are 0.75l; the transparent one 0.800l and the orange one 0.500l. They are all from Decathlon except for the orange one. For long hike I take the transparent one.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: the weight is in grams, the transparent one is 97g.
 

Attachments

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Simon B

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Ingles and Camino Frances. VDLP Spring 2019
#55
In countries that have a potable water supply one would encourage a complete ban on first use plastic water bottles.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
#56
This is the best I have, but can't exclude there are better bottles out there. Mine are very cheap from less than 2 euros to less than 7.
The metal one and the green one are 0.75l; the transparent one 0.800l and the orange one 0.500l. They are all from Decathlon except for the orange one. For long hike I take the transparent one.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: the weight is in grams, the transparent one is 97g.
They look good, but I'll need to carry 3L of water. That's almost 400gms in bottles.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#57
Simple and very effective solution... Thank you Kanga.
A number of countries have introduced a deposit-refund system for plastic water bottles so that they get used multiple times. In Germany it's 15 cents and the small print on the Evian and Badoit bottles currently in my kitchen say that it's 25 cents in the Netherlands. However, this requires a certain infrastructure, a country can't implement such a system from one day to the next.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Planning Italy to Finisterre and back (20xx)
#58
They look good, but I'll need to carry 3L of water. That's almost 400gms in bottles.
I see your point.
I drink a lot and for 1/2 day walk between me and the dog we drink at least 3l of water. I carry 2 hard bottles always (for balance) and depending on the terrain/length/season I have 1 or 2 roll up bottles. They are much lighter then the rigid ones and pack small. They are in the car at the moment so I can't weight them, but if I remember properly they are about 40g for the 0,500l and I don't remember the 0,750l.
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJPDP-Finisterre X 2, El Norte incompleto
#59
I support @Rodrigo Cerqueira's campaign. I'm aware of the plastics litter in the oceans, of plastic micro-particles, of the litter problem on and off our public places. I own about 5 Sigma bottles of various sizes and have used them on many treks. At the risk of being ostracized forever: I don't take them with me on the Camino. I do refill empty mineral water bottles with tap water from time to time. Most of the time, I don't like the taste of tap water. Yes, I do know that other people don't get this. So I do buy mineral water in plastic bottles. Admittedly, I've not sampled water from every tap along the CF (no idea about Portugal) but the only one that tasted really really good to me was the one from the spring below the picnic area on the other side of the road at the Cruz de Ferro.

My town hall administration has recently introduced household waste bags for plastics only. I'm amazed/horrified how much of our household waste is plastic: plastic wrappings for cheese, ham and sausages, plastic boxes for fruit and vegetables, joghurt containers, small clear plastic bags for all sorts of food items, the list is endless. I've not actually measured it but it seems that all this stuff creates more waste volume than the empty mineral water bottles we dispose of (incidentally in a different household waste bag).

I've not really looked into the science and recycling methods but know that commercially sold mineral water bottles are PET bottles nowadays.
Maybe a lightweight bottle with a filter would be a good choice for you. These Bobble bottles are very lightweight. https://www.amazon.com/Bobble-Water-Bottle-18-5oz-Black/dp/B003LTFSAE
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Mozarabe Almeria (2017)
Cherhill to Canterbury - Pilgrims' Way (2018)
Via Francigena (2019)
#60
Maybe a lightweight bottle with a filter would be a good choice for you. These Bobble bottles are very lightweight. https://www.amazon.com/Bobble-Water-Bottle-18-5oz-Black/dp/B003LTFSAE
A platypus 1L bottle is 24g and rolls up to a small size when empty.
https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.c...s-bags-c35/soft-bottle-with-closure-cap-p1926
But ah ... the price .... £10 in the UK.
A person who is accustomed to buying mineral water every day might easily justify this, since it pays for itself after a few days. A person who uses each disposable bottle multiple times over a whole month will probably consider it to be an extravagance.
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJPDP-Finisterre X 2, El Norte incompleto
#61
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#62
Maybe a lightweight bottle with a filter would be a good choice for you. These Bobble bottles are very lightweight. https://www.amazon.com/Bobble-Water-Bottle-18-5oz-Black/dp/B003LTFSAE
I forgot to mention that I also own a Brita bottle with a filter :cool:. Seriously, people, I think we ought to go back to the design and content of the website. I'm aware of my overall environmental impact. By the way, I don't drink Coke or other soft drinks, whether in a plastic bottle or a can. Nor beer in cans nor Red Bull. Don't know why it stuck in my mind but brand new empty beer and RB cans is what I picked up this summer along a Spanish camino and based on the location I'm pretty certain that it was camino walkers who left them there and not locals. I'm tempted to start a campaign to have the sale of this stuff banned. People can drink tap water instead. :cool:
 
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Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#64
You were proposing alternative options following an enquiry ... that's thread drift but it's ok by me. It's the "I'm against you drinking mineral water" posts that were beginning to irk me a little. Just a little. :cool:
 
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Camino(s) past & future
please see signature
#65
@Rodrigo Cerqueira , single-use plastic bottles are a scourge everywhere. So your campaign is to be commended.

Having said that I had hoped my halo might get a small burnish. I left home (from the uttermost end of the earth) with a 1,5 litre plastic bottle and a drinking tube and six weeks later I returned home with the same plastic bottle.

Like @Robo , I would find alternatives unwieldy.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
#68
here are plenty of alternatives available, including lightweight metal containers and heavy duty plastic bottles
And these, of course, are made from local responsibly-sourced environmentally-friendly metal and heavy plastic?
 

Eire604

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
September 2017
#69
We* are creating this sign to avoid the use of plastic bottles. In Portugal its a BIG problem.
Please give us your feed back if the message is clear?
View attachment 47113
* www.caminho.com.pt
When we were traveling through some of the dryer provinces they were getting upset when pilgrims were asking to have their bottles filled. They would prefer to have us buy bottled water.
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#70
When we were traveling through some of the dryer provinces they were getting upset when pilgrims were asking to have their bottles filled. They would prefer to have us buy bottled water.
Hi Eire604 filling bottles its not good for business...
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#71
We will agree to disagree ;)
The point I was making, is that whilst I use 'disposable' bottles, I don't dispose of them.
I reuse them...........
But I will investigate lightweight 'reusable' bottles to keep you happy ;)

Can anyone advise where to find 600 ml reusable water bottles that weight less than 30 gms?
This Bootle is perfect to re-used.
spelegrin.jpg
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (Sept 2014)
#74
Rodrigo, Your group is doing great work. I love the joyful spirituality its your website. It’s a nice idea to encourage people to think about how to reduce risks to the common good which can accidentally come from their actions walking the Way. I hope you understand my next comment is intended to be constructive, not to offend. I do not know the infrastructure and culture on the Caminho de Fatima or the Portuguese Caminho so your judgement is better than mine. Here is my concern:

On the list the advice it says to 'choose and contact allbergues’ and ‘plan stages’ at the same time the pilgrim is packing and training, presumably before leaving their home country. This gives the impression that it is wise to decide each day’s distance and sleeping places even before arriving in Portugal. Teh additional advice to make contact with the albergues before traveling from home would normally result in a reservation. A ‘beginner pilgrim’ reading this could easily rely on this advice before they realize the value of being free to listen to their body and heart as they step into a new kind of life on the Way.

Please understand that I am not criticizing people who make reservations. I am only hoping to avoid encouraging unnecessary loss of freedom and flexibility until the pilgrim is able to make a fully informed decision, which can change over the days they are walking.

Instead of 'choose and contact allbergues’ and ‘plan stages’ could you substitute ‘choose a guidebook or app’ and ‘learn about available albergues’ and ‘consider what distances you might walk each day’?
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
#75
As is any. Be it Coke, orange juice, water, Aquarius, mineral water, whatever...

I think you should set the goal of your campaign straight first to make a good slogan:
1: don't litter the Camin(h)o with plastic bottles
2: don't buy bottled water/drinks at all
3: or else (many)

You can make campaign even wider. Like "our tap water is safe/very good to drink", "you think plastic bottles are growing in forests?", "there are trash bins 3/5/10 km ahead. Please dispose your trash there", "Look around. Isn't it pretty without plastic bottles lying around?", etc. etc.

We can talk about our personal needs and customs indefinite. Also about quality of bottled and tap water (well, I know the answer for Spain, Portugal and my country), carbon print for producing so-called single-use plastic bottles vs metal/plastic containers and so on but first problem as I see it is getting rid of the litter.

Good luck!
 
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Harington

una abuelita inglés
Camino(s) past & future
Vézelay/Francés 2011, Primitivo 2012, VdlP 2013, Via Domitia 2014, Inglés 2015, Francigena 2016
#76
We* are creating this sign to avoid the use of plastic bottles. In Portugal its a BIG problem.
Please give us your feed back if the message is clear?
View attachment 47113
* www.caminho.com.pt
British English would not use the word "canteen". But I endorse the word "use", because [a] we use too much plastic, and if you don't use plastic you won't drop it anyway.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Mozarabe Almeria (2017)
Cherhill to Canterbury - Pilgrims' Way (2018)
Via Francigena (2019)
#77
first problem as I see it is getting rid of the litter.
Litter is the most visible problem to us (people walking through the country), but perhaps it's not the first or top priority problem to be addressed in relation to single-use plastics. As I understand it, the premise of this campaign is not merely that we should reduce littering, but that we need to address the wider ecological problem of single-use plastics. I applaud it.
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" camino
Porto to SdC May 2019
#78
British English would not use the word "canteen". But I endorse the word "use", because [a] we use too much plastic, and if you don't use plastic you won't drop it anyway.
Isn't "British English" just "English"? ;)

Either way, in a restaurant in SdC there was an extensive TV news item about the damage that extensive use of plastics is causing - not just bottles. I looked around and of the six tables I could see five have plastic water bottle on them!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Francis (2016)
SJ to Santa Domingo (2017)
Santa Domingo to Fromista (2018)
#79
Isn't "British English" just "English"? ;)

Either way, in a restaurant in SdC there was an extensive TV news item about the damage that extensive use of plastics is causing - not just bottles. I looked around and of the six tables I could see five have plastic water bottle on them!
Every year I walk, I buy an “Aquafina” one liter plastic bottle before I start. That is the only thing I use for water for my entire walk.
I still have all three in my extra pack.
Maybe I’ll recycle next year and take a previous one back with me.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Many, various, and continuing.
#80
Rodrigo: wonderful work! the Camino Ditch Pigs cleanup crew is planning a litter sweep this November in Portugal, from Oporto north on the central Way to Valenca. Would love to meet with you or your partners, and help distribute your posters.
 

KJFSophie

My Way, With Joy !
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2014 & 2015 ) ,Via San Francesco, Italy (2017 )
Camino Portugese (2018 )
#81
What about:
USE AN ALTERNATIVE. DO NOT USE PLASTIC WATER BOTTLES ON THE CAMINHO. ?
Maybe you can insert "disposable" to the plastic bottles? I bought two water bottles in Porto and refilled the same two until I reached my airport home :)
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
#82
Can I ask why this one is better, than the regular clear store bottles I use?

It is heavier construction, so I think would last longer before needing to be replaced?
Is the green colour better to avoid leaching chemicals into the water?

Just curious as you seem to have researched this a lot.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Planning Italy to Finisterre and back (20xx)
#83
Can I ask why this one is better, than the regular clear store bottles I use?

It is heavier construction, so I think would last longer before needing to be replaced?
Is the green colour better to avoid leaching chemicals into the water?

Just curious as you seem to have researched this a lot.
It's the name ;)
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Mozarabe Almeria (2017)
Cherhill to Canterbury - Pilgrims' Way (2018)
Via Francigena (2019)
#84
I received a copy of the Credencial do Peregrino from the Associação de Amigos dos Caminhos de Fatima, which incorporates some of the language and ideas that we discussed here. Thank you Rodrigo Cerqueira. It is awesome. I'm sure that many pilgrims will be very proud to carry this document.
IMG_1784.jpg
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#85
I received a copy of the Credencial do Peregrino from the Associação de Amigos dos Caminhos de Fatima, which incorporates some of the language and ideas that we discussed here. Thank you Rodrigo Cerqueira. It is awesome. I'm sure that many pilgrims will be very proud to carry this document.
View attachment 48775
Thank you Raggy for your help :)
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
#86
I received it too, just today. Thank you very much @Rodrigo Cerqueira , nice gesture :)

When I will finally have enough money and time to walk from Tarifa or at least Cabo Sao Vicente through Portugal to Fisterra I think that would be a perfect time to use your credencial.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#87
Thank you KinkyOne for your help. You will walk again in Portugal because where there is a will there is a way.
I received it too, just today. Thank you very much @Rodrigo Cerqueira , nice gesture :)

When I will finally have enough money and time to walk from Tavira or at least Cabo Sao Vicente through Portugal to Fisterra I think that would be a perfect time to use your credencial.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" camino
Porto to SdC May 2019
#88
I received a copy of the Credencial do Peregrino from the Associação de Amigos dos Caminhos de Fatima, which incorporates some of the language and ideas that we discussed here. Thank you Rodrigo Cerqueira. It is awesome. I'm sure that many pilgrims will be very proud to carry this document.
View attachment 48775
That is a very impressive credential. A lot of the ones I've seen are decorated with caminos that are of no interest or pretty pictures that, quite honestly, just take up space more usefully reserved for stamps.

Can't quite read the text clearly but it does look like it contains a useful amount of information.

Well done!
 
Camino(s) past & future
3 French from St. Jean Pied Port, 3 Portuguese from Lisbon, 1 Portuguese from Porto, 1 Primitivo from Oviedo, 19 Lisbon - Fatima, 2 Porto - Fatima, 1 Coimbra - Fátima... Open the caminhos Nascente Fátima - Tomar, Poente Nazaré- Fátima, the north connection from Fátima to Ansião and Caminho Santiago central.
#91
View attachment 48791
Good project! Small point, but check the spelling for PILGRIMAGE, as well as the spacing between words.
Thanks a lot Jill81 for your help. Its already printed. But on the next edition will be corrected.
 

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