Some thoughts on the safety and risks of the Camino

[hieudovan]

With Denise Thiem’s missing for over a month, reports of sexual harassment on the Way, at least 2 recent deaths (one by a heart attack and one by a traffic accident), it’s understandable that some of us might be concerned about walking, while others still consider walking the Camino to be one of the safest activity on earth. Naturally, when there are divergent views on an important and emotional subject, there will always be a risk of misunderstanding. I hope this post, in trying to have a short summary of the topic in a supportive manner, we can go on as kindred souls who share the love of the Camino, whether we decide to walk or not.

Perception of risk and danger is subjective. I know many “brave” friends who would never ride a motorcycle due to the risks involved. At the same time I also have friends of all ages who cannot imagine a life without riding. They all know the risks. However, their feelings, values and thoughts result in totally different decisions regarding motorcycle riding. The motorcyclists themselves are also different in their approach to riding. There are those who wear full face helmets, leather clothing, riding boots... and those at the other extreme of no helmets, wearing only t-shirts, shorts and sandals.

So it is with the Camino. There are always objective statistics regarding safety. However, each of us will make our own assessment whether the risk is “reasonable” for us. There’s no right or wrong to how we feel and what we decide.

If we decide to walk the Camino, the issue of safety should be approached in a way that’s comfortable for us. I will use boots and shoes as a mundane example. I did my research, with my own criteria regarding costs, pluses and minuses. The “best” boots might be too expensive, heavy etc... Waterproofing is another subjective choice. It would keep water out, but then my feet would sweat more. In fact, when I went on the forum for advice, there were pilgrims who swore by light running shoes, sandals, or no footwear at all. There are no right or wrong choices. To each their own. I decided on an inexpensive pair of waterproof boots and walked the CF and VdLP. The faithful boots are now retired and I am wondering if I should go with trail running shoes for my next Camino.

So, if safety is an issue, address it in a “practical” manner, do some research. Bring a cell/mobile phone, check for the weather, walk with one or more pilgrims in sections that are more likely to be isolated, get a reflective vest etc... Do whatever you think is important to you. Any of these choices have drawbacks, e.g., a reflective vest is another item to carry. Even if we do everything right, the risk will never disappear all together. We can have the “safest” car, careful in our driving. However, if there’s a drunk driver going on the wrong side of the road coming at us at a hight speed at night, it’s unfortunate to say the least.

So, I hope that we can go on being supportive to each other, no matter how we feel about each other’s beliefs and choices. In the end, it’s our own Camino... or not.

I myself plan to walk the Camino Portugues in 2016. My thoughts are with Denise Thiem and her family and the families of the pilgrims who are no longer with us. I am also glad to be able to share the joys and experiences of those pilgrims who take the time to post on the forum.

Buen camino,

Hieu

 

[C clearly]

You summarized the issues of risk management very well! Thanks.

 

[ricitosdeplata]

Hieudovan, amen. You summed it up well.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

With Denise Thiem’s missing for over a month, reports of sexual harassment on the Way, at least 2 recent deaths (one by a heart attack and one by a traffic accident), it’s understandable that some of us might be concerned about walking, while others still consider walking the Camino to be one of the safest activity on earth. Naturally, when there are divergent views on an important and emotional subject, there will always be a risk of misunderstanding. I hope this post, in trying to have a short summary of the topic in a supportive manner, we can go on as kindred souls who share the love of the Camino, whether we decide to walk or not.

Perception of risk and danger is subjective. I know many “brave” friends who would never ride a motorcycle due to the risks involved. At the same time I also have friends of all ages who cannot imagine a life without riding. They all know the risks. However, their feelings, values and thoughts result in totally different decisions regarding motorcycle riding. The motorcyclists themselves are also different in their approach to riding. There are those who wear full face helmets, leather clothing, riding boots... and those at the other extreme of no helmets, wearing only t-shirts, shorts and sandals.

So it is with the Camino. There are always objective statistics regarding safety. However, each of us will make our own assessment whether the risk is “reasonable” for us. There’s no right or wrong to how we feel and what we decide.

If we decide to walk the Camino, the issue of safety should be approached in a way that’s comfortable for us. I will use boots and shoes as a mundane example. I did my research, with my own criteria regarding costs, pluses and minuses. The “best” boots might be too expensive, heavy etc... Waterproofing is another subjective choice. It would keep water out, but then my feet would sweat more. In fact, when I went on the forum for advice, there were pilgrims who swore by light running shoes, sandals, or no footwear at all. There are no right or wrong choices. To each their own. I decided on an inexpensive pair of waterproof boots and walked the CF and VdLP. The faithful boots are now retired and I am wondering if I should go with trail running shoes for my next Camino.

So, if safety is an issue, address it in a “practical” manner, do some research. Bring a cell/mobile phone, check for the weather, walk with one or more pilgrims in sections that are more likely to be isolated, get a reflective vest etc... Do whatever you think is important to you. Any of these choices have drawbacks, e.g., a reflective vest is another item to carry. Even if we do everything right, the risk will never disappear all together. We can have the “safest” car, careful in our driving. However, if there’s a drunk driver going on the wrong side of the road coming at us at a hight speed at night, it’s unfortunate to say the least.

So, I hope that we can go on being supportive to each other, no matter how we feel about each other’s beliefs and choices. In the end, it’s our own Camino... or not.

I myself plan to walk the Camino Portugues in 2016. My thoughts are with Denise Thiem and her family and the families of the pilgrims who are no longer with us. I am also glad to be able to share the joys and experiences of those pilgrims who take the time to post on the forum.

Buen camino,

Hieu

Hi Hieu ,
You hid the nail well , wish you well ,Peter .

 

[clearskiescamino]

Excellent post. I think all members should take time to read your post.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Bravo!

 

[C clearly]

Wouldn't it be better to post the article (the link posted by Falcon) on a thread devoted to the status of Denise Thiem? Clearly the comments "bravo" and "heartbreaking article" are referring to entirely different posts.

 

[caminodream]

Well said. Thank you.

 

[Phillypilgrim]

Sorry, I deleted my post. Read the article and responded without considering the original post, my bad.

 

[cher99840]

Hieu, excellent summation. Thank you.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Wouldn't it be better to post the article on a thread devoted to the status of Denise Thiem? Clearly the comments "bravo" and "heartbreaking article" are referring to entirely different posts.

Don't think I would want to move this to a Denyse thread, on the contrary. This was a very simple and well thought out post about safety in general, hence all the praise it received. But I am not opposed to having my post removed if it is felt it is not appropriate here.

 

[vgen5122]

Some of us think that walking the Camino is like life itself. Most of us all start out at SJPDP. The paths give us twists, turns, and unexpected challenges. For some the journey is difficult. For others the journey is quick and easy. Then again for some pilgrims their journey abruptly ends for an inexplicable reason. Happiness turns into tragedy.
One of the reasons I love the Camino is due to the fact that I had a sense of safety. Pilgrims watching out for other pilgrims. Pilgrims watching out for other pilgrims is the best defense against crime.
The country of Spain is not in a bubble. It has crime in cities and even in some small towns.
Even in an environment such as the Camino as in life, it is very sad that "bad things happen to good people". I believe that the best thing to do in times like these is to put one foot in front of the other and keep on going. In the times of St. James that is exactly what people did. Pilgrims just kept on walking all the way to Santiago. Buen Camino

 

[sag10]

Some of us think that walking the Camino is like life itself. Most of us all start out at SJPDP. The paths give us twists, turns, and unexpected challenges. For some the journey is difficult. For others the journey is quick and easy. Then again for some pilgrims their journey abruptly ends for an inexplicable reason. Happiness turns into tragedy.
One of the reasons I love the Camino is due to the fact that I had a sense of safety. Pilgrims watching out for other pilgrims. Pilgrims watching out for other pilgrims is the best defense against crime.
The country of Spain is not in a bubble. It has crime in cities and even in some small towns.
Even in an environment such as the Camino as in life, it is very sad that "bad things happen to good people". I believe that the best thing to do in times like these is to put one foot in front of the other and keep on going. In the times of St. James that is exactly what people did. Pilgrims just kept on walking all the way to Santiago. Buen Camino

Just to add I have received a letter from the Head of the Guardia Civil (spanish gendarmerie) in León, after having transmited him the concern showed in the Camino Forum.

The Guardia Civil is keeping an eye on the stretch between Astorga and Rabanal del Camino, so that pilgrims security is reinforced. As vgen5122 suggests, keep on walking along the Way.

 

[C clearly]

Don't think I would want to move this to a Denyse thread, on the contrary. This was a very simple and well thought out post about safety in general, hence all the praise it received

I totally agree! I wasn't suggesting that the original post be moved. (I was the first to praise it.) I was suggesting that Falcon's link to the article giving a news update on Denise be moved. Some of us were commenting in praise of the original post, and others (since deleted) were commenting about the heartbreaking situation with Denise.

I was hoping to preserve the more philosophical thread separate from the specific case so we wouldn't immediately lose the big picture that Hieu presented so well.

I hope I'm not digging myself into a hole now.

 

[wayfarer]

Post moved to appropriate thread.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The government is working tirelessly, safety programs are in place, and specific investigative techniques are not being discussed:

http://www.diariodeleon.es/noticias...aja-sin-descanso-encontrar-denise_985947.html

 

[Deleted member 3000]

A website that compares crime rates! Spain vs. U.S.:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Spain/United-States/Crime

 

[Scott Sweeney]

I was going to walk to my local farmers market this morning. I think I will stay home, lock my doors and watch 24 hours of law and order. Good Ole USA!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I was going to walk to my local farmers market this morning. I think I will stay home, lock my doors and watch 24 hours of law and order.

If the farmer's market is anywhere near the Dallas police headquarters, that is a good idea!

 

[Anemone del Camino]

A website that compares crime rates! Spain vs. U.S.:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Spain/United-States/Crime

Wooohhhhh, there is something in these stats not working, as much as I believe the US is HUGE in crime. It claims the US is only 2% higher in capital punishment than Spain, yet it has been abolished in Spain with the 'hasta luego Franco" in 1978.

A pity really, since the rest of the stats may have put our Camino Forum worried heads to rest after all the hoolplah. Mind you, makes me feel a bit sorry for those in the US who base their fears on what they know: the US.

Or am I reading this wrong?

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Wooohhhhh, there is something in these stats not working, as much as I believe the US is HUGE in crime. It claims the US is only 2% higher in capital punishment than Spain, yet it has been abolished in Spain with the 'hasta luego Franco" in 1978.

A pity really, since the rest of the stats may have put our Camino Forum worried heads to rest after all the hoolplah. Mind you, makes me feel a bit sorry for those in the US who base their fears on what they know: the US.

Or am I reading this wrong?

Let's not do this. I'm all for a little US bashing, but having lived in Cambodia for eight years and getting bashed routinely by friendly people from other nations, I'm a bit done with it. Thanks. Merci. Danke. Ah-gun. Gracias.

[edited for grammatical error]

 

[waveprof]

Let's not do this. I'm all for a little US bashing, but having lived in Cambodia for eight years and getting bashed routinely by friendly people from other nations, I'm a bit done with it. Thanks. Merci. Danke. Ah-gun. Gracias.

[edited for grammatical error]

As an American, I think it's all pretty fair. Americans (on the whole, as a nation) live in fear, and then reflect that on the world around them. Certainly isn't true of every individual.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

As an American, I think it's all pretty fair. Americans (on the whole, as a nation) live in fear, and then reflect that on the world around them. Certainly isn't true of every individual.

As an American who was an expat for several years, I am rather tired of it. But cheers! Join the club.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Americans (on the whole, as a nation) live in fear

Turning to the crime section of the Chapman University Survey on American Fears, the team discovered findings that not only surprised them, but also those who work in fields pertaining to crime.

“What we found when we asked a series of questions pertaining to fears of various crimes is that a majority of Americans not only fear crimes such as, child abduction, gang violence, sexual assaults and others; but they also believe these crimes (and others) have increased over the past 20 years,” said Dr. Edward Day who led this portion of the survey. “When we looked at statistical data from police and FBI records, it showed crime has actually decreased in America in the past 20 years. Criminologists often get angry responses when we try to tell people the crime rate has gone down.”

Despite evidence to the contrary, Americans do not feel like the United States is becoming a safer place. The Chapman University Survey on American Fears asked how they think prevalence of several crimes today compare with 20 years ago. In all cases, the clear majority of respondents were pessimistic; and in all cases Americans believe crime has at least remained steady. Specific crimes queried in the survey were: child abduction, gang violence, human trafficking, mass riots, pedophilia, school shootings, serial killing and sexual assault.

The fear is not fact-based, so its source is somewhere else!!

 

[waveprof]

But cheers! Join the club.

What club?

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Turning to the crime section of the Chapman University Survey on American Fears, the team discovered findings that not only surprised them, but also those who work in fields pertaining to crime.

“What we found when we asked a series of questions pertaining to fears of various crimes is that a majority of Americans not only fear crimes such as, child abduction, gang violence, sexual assaults and others; but they also believe these crimes (and others) have increased over the past 20 years,” said Dr. Edward Day who led this portion of the survey. “When we looked at statistical data from police and FBI records, it showed crime has actually decreased in America in the past 20 years. Criminologists often get angry responses when we try to tell people the crime rate has gone down.”

Despite evidence to the contrary, Americans do not feel like the United States is becoming a safer place. The Chapman University Survey on American Fears asked how they think prevalence of several crimes today compare with 20 years ago. In all cases, the clear majority of respondents were pessimistic; and in all cases Americans believe crime has at least remained steady. Specific crimes queried in the survey were: child abduction, gang violence, human trafficking, mass riots, pedophilia, school shootings, serial killing and sexual assault.

The fear is not fact-based, so its source is somewhere else!!

Our news organizations love to perpetuate. That's why I listen to NPR.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Let's not do this. I'm all for a little US bashing, but having lived in Cambodia for eight years and getting bashed routinely by friendly people from other nations, I'm a bit done with it. Thanks. Merci. Danke. Ah-gun. Gracias.

[edited for grammatical error]

Not doing any bashing, just questionning the stats since the US practices capital punishment and Spain has not for 30 years.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Thanks! I'm not sure that I come here to learn about the USA. I'm here to just learn about Spain

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Thanks! I'm not sure that I come here to learn about the USA. I'm here to just learn about Spain

Did you even look at the link in question? It compares Spain to the USA. Simple as that.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Did you even look at the link in question? It compares Spain to the USA. Simple as that.

Sure did. Thanks.

 

[Angelo]

I was glad to have read Hieu's comprehensive message. Until I read further down the thread...

 

[Chacharm]

Hmmm. I appreciate your thoughts here. But I would also like to say that no man alive has been raised with the kind of back burner anxiety that every woman on earth feels every day. We step outside our homes to find men yelling from passing cars/bikes...commenting on our appearance and sexual attractiveness. We spend our days fending off sexual advances at work, in the grocery store, in our front yards and at the movies from childhood straight into old age. A woman is raped in the US every 6 seconds (or maybe that has changed since I last checked.) Any woman who "decides" not to be afraid and not to worry about being attacked is ignoring a simple truth about the world we live in.
I don't mean to say that I spend every moment in fear. I don't. And I don't mean to say that women should be afraid to go on Camino. But as in every other situation, women should take extra precautions that men simply don't have to think about.

I walked the Camino 3 years ago with my son. We weren't always together as we walked - not by a long shot. But I knew he was just up ahead. And it was the CF, there was always someone walking along near me or with me. I had a few men say a few creepy things to me - you never escape that crap entirely - but for the most part I was never bothered or worried. I have, in fact, told other women not to let their worries stop them from walking the Camino alone.
But this year I walked the Camino del Norte alone. I started just a couple of weeks after Denise disappeared. I was concerned for her and perhaps a little bit anxious for myself. On the first day I saw 3 other peregrinos. After that I never saw another until the evenings in the albuergues. I mentioned to a man from Valencia that I thought the Norte was a bit lonelier and that I was having a hard time finding the yellow arrows. He said he had seen several arrows covered in black spray paint and that it had bothered him. I asked why and he spoke of Denise and said that he had also seen arrows directing peregrinos in the wrong direction. He said he was worried about me walking alone and that he thought I should at least be on the Frances.
The next day I was walking uphill to the albuergue near Gernika, alone again, when a man (without a pack or sticks and wearing street clothing) came around the bend ahead of me and walked rapidly directly toward me asking me if I was alone? Totally alone? I said no - that I was with my husband and son - that they were just behind me. I said it calmly - but he seemed bothered by my response and told me, "OK! OK! Calm down! I was just asking if you were alone!" and then walked on past me.

It was just...weird. And alarming.

I was afraid for the rest of that day and decided then that after I made it to Bilbao I would drop down to the CF and continue on that way. My phone never had any reception on any part of the Camino, CF or CdN. I seriously doubt anyone would have heard a scream or a whistle. I told the hospitalero about it and he said he would pass it on to the local cops.
That night I fell down the stairs in the albuergue and sprained my right ankle badly and did some ligament damage and was off the Camino entirely.
I will go back - but I don't think I will do it alone again. In part because of concerns for my safety but mostly because I found that I was simply not happy being utterly on my own all day like that.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Hmmm. I appreciate your thoughts here. But I would also like to say that no man alive has been raised with the kind of back burner anxiety that every woman on earth feels every day. We step outside our homes to find men yelling from passing cars/bikes...commenting on our appearance and sexual attractiveness. We spend our days fending off sexual advances at work, in the grocery store, in our front yards and at the movies from childhood straight into old age. A woman is raped in the US every 6 seconds (or maybe that has changed since I last checked.) Any woman who "decides" not to be afraid and not to worry about being attacked is ignoring a simple truth about the world we live in.
I don't mean to say that I spend every moment in fear. I don't. And I don't mean to say that women should be afraid to go on Camino. But as in every other situation, women should take extra precautions that men simply don't have to think about.

I walked the Camino 3 years ago with my son. We weren't always together as we walked - not by a long shot. But I knew he was just up ahead. And it was the CF, there was always someone walking along near me or with me. I had a few men say a few creepy things to me - you never escape that crap entirely - but for the most part I was never bothered or worried. I have, in fact, told other women not to let their worries stop them from walking the Camino alone.
But this year I walked the Camino del Norte alone. I started just a couple of weeks after Denise disappeared. I was concerned for her and perhaps a little bit anxious for myself. On the first day I saw 3 other peregrinos. After that I never saw another until the evenings in the albuergues. I mentioned to a man from Valencia that I thought the Norte was a bit lonelier and that I was having a hard time finding the yellow arrows. He said he had seen several arrows covered in black spray paint and that it had bothered him. I asked why and he spoke of Denise and said that he had also seen arrows directing peregrinos in the wrong direction. He said he was worried about me walking alone and that he thought I should at least be on the Frances.
The next day I was walking uphill to the albuergue near Gernika, alone again, when a man (without a pack or sticks and wearing street clothing) came around the bend ahead of me and walked rapidly directly toward me asking me if I was alone? Totally alone? I said no - that I was with my husband and son - that they were just behind me. I said it calmly - but he seemed bothered by my response and told me, "OK! OK! Calm down! I was just asking if you were alone!" and then walked on past me.

It was just...weird. And alarming.

I was afraid for the rest of that day and decided then that after I made it to Bilbao I would drop down to the CF and continue on that way. My phone never had any reception on any part of the Camino, CF or CdN. I seriously doubt anyone would have heard a scream or a whistle. I told the hospitalero about it and he said he would pass it on to the local cops.
That night I fell down the stairs in the albuergue and sprained my right ankle badly and did some ligament damage and was off the Camino entirely.
I will go back - but I don't think I will do it alone again. In part because of concerns for my safety but mostly because I found that I was simply not happy being utterly on my own all day like that.

Your narrative was so honest, factual, and sincere that I read through it all with empathy and interest. I had wondered how you were doing!

You pretty much nailed it all. Men like to weigh in, but in all honesty, unless a person has dealt with all the joys of female gender all of her life, it is hard to understand the complexity. Here is a story for you.

I was the only woman in a huge work shop--woodworking and metal fab--- for about three years in the early eighties. I was very good at what I did, which was teach adults how to safely operate power equipment and then build cool stuff. It was part of a cutting edge rehab program for those who had been injured on the job; through the modality of work, they rehabilitated, and they had fun with it. They also avoided cutting fingers off etc.; I was teaching them how to use planers, table saws, radial arm saws, jointers, dado blades, jigsaw, routers, and so on. Together, my clients and I made home entertainment centers (the days before the flat screen on the wall!), cutting boards, and we even made knives from start to finish--although that was not my specialty.

My co-workers were a motley crew of slightly older men (I was in my early to mid twenties), and they were 32 on up to 50-ish. Initially, I got snakes put in my desk, inappropriately-shaped erasers on my writing utensils and instructions to go up the 30-foot ladder. I was talked about, and watched. If anyone did anything wrong, it was me. To be honest, the first year was so miserable I had to give myself a pep talk every night before bed, and get up early to do it again.

Walking from the shop to the main building, even an elderly janitor touched me very inappropriately. The reality of my life at the time was exceptionally difficult, and I was wearing jeans, flannel shirts, a tape measure on my belt, and a lot of muscle from hard work. I remember staring at the janitor and backing away from him. I never turned him in. It was so routine to me to deal with this stuff at work that until one of my co-workers hit me as a "joke" I did not take any action. By that time, I was fed up from being called a lesbian and having remarks made about my backside.

My family knows me to be strong and somewhat aggressive if it is needed. When there is a difficult interaction that requires hard negotiating, I'm the person they want to take along. Fortunately, owing to years of situations such as the one above, I undertake all activities with a glad and open heart, but I am cagey and appreciate a woman that knows how to answer, "are you alone?" Good job. I also appreciate a woman who is willing to being open and honest about her feelings and knows how to read the wind.

I am ready for my Camino, and will take your story and your wisdom with me, along with my glad and open heart. Buen Camino, and welcome back, Chacharm.