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Spiritual, Religious, or ??

Past OR future Camino
CF 2006,08,09,11,12(2),13(2),14,16(2),18(2) Aragones 11,12,VDLP 11,13,Lourdes 12,Malaga 16,Port 06
In the past, when getting my Credential, I was asked why I was walking.
If for spiritual or religious reasons, I could get a Compostela.
If just walking for the heck of it, I could get a pretty piece of paper saying I'd completed the pilgrimage.
Some of my Credentials even have a space for the answer to that question.
But I notice this new Credential does not have that question.
Do they no longer ask if you are walking for religious reasons?
Or is it still a requirement?
 
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Peter Fransiscus

Be a Rainbow in someone else's cloud.
Past OR future Camino
All that we are is the result of what we have thought.
In the past, when getting my Credential, I was asked why I was walking.
If for spiritual or religious reasons, I could get a Compostela.
If just walking for the heck of it, I could get a pretty piece of paper saying I'd completed the pilgrimage.
Some of my Credentials even have a space for the answer to that question.
But I notice this new Credential does not have that question.
Do they no longer ask if you are walking for religious reasons?
Or is it still a requirement?
Hello Annie ,
There is a difference now
  • Make the pilgrimage for religious or spiritual reasons, or at least an attitude of search.
Take care and be safe 🙏💗
 

MaryEllen

New Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
I received mine this morning and checked the box, but was disappointed there was no conversation about it, or anything actually.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
May I suggest that you state which organisation issued your credential, and when.

As far as I know and/or vaguely remember, the text of the credentials are not identical. I also have Fernando Lalanda's booklet about the History of the Credential and had a quick look. In particular, the passage of text that says that the credencial (yes, it is about the credencial and not yet about the Compostela) is only for those who make the pilgrimage with a Christian sentiment, even if it is only with an attitude of search / con sentido cristiano, aunque sólo sea en actitud de búsqueda / avec un sentiment chrétien, même en attitude de recherche seulement, and that the holder accepts this condition is nothing new. It had been printed in credentials issued in Spanish and in French for decades. This line may be missing in credentials designed and issued by national pilgrims associations established in other countries.

I received my first credential many many years ago. It was issued by a French pilgrims association and it contained already this text in French. I must admit that I had not paid much attention to it, I noticed it only several years later when there was a discussion about it on the forum. People who don't speak French or Spanish and receive their credential from the pilgrims office in SJPP or Ivar's shop may never notice it.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Here is quote from a thread in 2016: Credenciales issued by national camino groups (the Confraternity [UK], CCoP [Canada], AQC [Canada?], APOC [USA] etc) generally have no mention of specific motivations.

Note that the 2016 thread got closed. So don't venture too far into how you may feel about the texts but stick to text comparison and credential history. 😌
 
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Past OR future Camino
2012
I walk my caminos always "in an attitude of search", why else would I. Beware of conflation: the credencial which grants the pilgrim the privilege of access to Albergues and some other benefits (discounted or free access to "tourist" attractions) is not the same beast as the Compostella, the award of which is subject to the rules of the Diocese and the PO.
 
Past OR future Camino
CF 2006,08,09,11,12(2),13(2),14,16(2),18(2) Aragones 11,12,VDLP 11,13,Lourdes 12,Malaga 16,Port 06
I received mine this morning and checked the box, but was disappointed there was no conversation about it, or anything actually.
You received your Credential? Or your Compostela?
When you arrive in Santiago, you will get a Compostela instead of a pretty paper saying you walked.
 
Past OR future Camino
CF 2006,08,09,11,12(2),13(2),14,16(2),18(2) Aragones 11,12,VDLP 11,13,Lourdes 12,Malaga 16,Port 06
May I suggest that you state which organisation issued your credential, and when.

As far as I know and/or vaguely remember, the text of the credentials are not identical. I also have Fernando Lalanda's booklet about the History of the Credential and had a quick look. In particular, the passage of text that says that the credencial (yes, it is about the credencial and not yet about the Compostela) is only for those who make the pilgrimage with a Christian sentiment, even if it is only with an attitude of search / con sentido cristiano, aunque sólo sea en actitud de búsqueda / avec un sentiment chrétien, même en attitude de recherche seulement, and that the holder accepts this condition is nothing new. It had been printed in credentials issued in Spanish and in French for decades. This line may be missing in credentials designed and issued by national pilgrims associations established in other countries.

I received my first credential many many years ago. It was issued by a French pilgrims association and it contained already this text in French. I must admit that I had not paid much attention to it, I noticed it only several years later when there was a discussion about it on the forum. People who don't speak French or Spanish and receive their credential from the pilgrims office in SJPP or Ivar's shop may never notice it.

I've got about 20 Credentials and only a few of them ask the question.
 

Jeff Robinson

New Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
Interesting. The last time I volunteered at the pilgrim office in Santiago, about three years ago, it was pointed out by Maria, the manager of the office, that there are certain requirements by the church that a credential must meet. Any organization may print a credential but for it to be officially recognized and qualifying for the issue of a Compostela, it must contain certain textual content.
I have in my hand a credential issued by the cathedral DeSantiago. It makes no reference or question as to why the pilgrim is making the pilgrimage. When a pilgrim checks into the pilgrim office they are asked why they made the journey and they are to choose one of three answers. Religious, spiritual, or other (cultural, sport, or tourism). The pilgrims answer is recorded in the church database and it determines what certificate is issued by the church. The Campostella would be issued for those choosing religious reasons and possibly (my memory fails me) spiritual reasons. A certificate of completion with, or without mileage is available for those who do not meet the requirements for receiving the Compostela. Only the Catholic Church of Santiago can issue a Compostela for completing the Camino de Santiago. Other churches may issue commemorative or souvenir certificates.
This is not “official“ information. I am only trying to offer some insight from my experience as a volunteer in the office.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
I have in my hand a credential issued by the cathedral DeSantiago. It makes no reference or question as to why the pilgrim is making the pilgrimage.
Are you sure? The credencial issued by the Cathedral, the one that can be ordered on the forum shop and that is shown on the Oficina del Peregrino's website, does have such a reference - unless my Spanish is so poor that I misunderstand the text? As I said already, I think that many people are not aware of it, and for all practical purposes it doesn't matter.

credencial.jpg
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
When a pilgrim checks into the pilgrim office they are asked why they made the journey and they are to choose one of three answers. Religious, spiritual, or other (cultural, sport, or tourism).
Currently, the choice is between religious; religious and other; not religious. No spiritual.

You can see the three categories on the statistics page of the Oficina del Peregrino and on the questionnaire/form that pilgrims have to fill in for the Compostela and that can now be done online, see here: https://catedral.df-server.info/agencias/Individuo.aspx?lang=5 - Drop down menu for Reasons for pilgrimage.
 

Flog

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
At the pilgrims office you are asked to fill out some details onto a sheet, some of which (not your personal details) are later added to the database for the cathedral's statistics. If you want a compostela you will need to check either the religious or spiritual boxes, if you check only the 'other' box will get the welcome certificate instead. You can check any or all of the boxes as they apply to you. This may or may not be mentioned to you so it's good to know. Some volunteers may point it out, some won't..

Edit: I've only ever seen the means of conveyance choice options on any credencial, but never the reasons options ...
 
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Jeff Robinson

New Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
Are you sure? The credencial issued by the Cathedral, the one that can be ordered on the forum shop and that is shown on the Oficina del Peregrino's website, does have such a reference - unless my Spanish is so poor that I misunderstand the text? As I said already, I think that many people are not aware of it, and for all practical purposes it doesn't matter.

View attachment 105579
Thank you for your reply and helping me to clarify. Sorry, I tend to be too wordy. Therefore, going back to the original post, my short answer should have been as follows.
No, you are not asked why you’re walking the Camino on the credential. There is no box to check to identify your purpose. They only clarify the requirements for obtaining the Compostela. When you arrive at the pilgrim office you will be asked why you walked the Camino. They will then review your credential and determine whether or not you are eligible to receive a Compostela. I hope that helps. Again, sorry for the confusion.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
I've got about 20 Credentials and only a few of them ask the question.
I'd be interested to know who issued the credentials where you can indicate your motive for the pilgrimage. Where they issued by APOC or the Confraternity from the UK?

As I said, I have Fernando Lalanda's Historia de la Credencial but he deals mainly with the credentials issued by the Santiago Cathedral and with the struggles between the Spanish Camino associations and the Cathedral about who has the monopoly for designing and issuing credentials. And it looks like the Cathedral won.

Lalanda describes eight different designs of the Spanish credentials, ranging from around the 1980s until today, but nowhere do I see an option in the description of these credential versions where the pilgrim can indicate their motives in the credential. Hence my question about credentials issued by international Camino associations.
 
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Past OR future Camino
CF 2006,08,09,11,12(2),13(2),14,16(2),18(2) Aragones 11,12,VDLP 11,13,Lourdes 12,Malaga 16,Port 06
Well, let me look, some are packed up - these are the ones in which I see nothing about WHY I'm walking:

2006 - American Pilgrims on the Camino
Via de la plata 2009 - got my Credential in Sevilla at the Ayuntamiento de Sevilla
2009 - Continuation at the Monasterio de Samos
2012 - SJPP Pilgrim Office
For the 2014 Camino Madrid, I got a continuation Credential at the Church at O Cebreiro.
2014 - Iglesia Parroquial de Santiago y San Juan Bautista in Madrid
2016 - Catedral a Malaga
2019 - Les Amis de Chemins in Toulouse France

The rest do mention the reason.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
The rest do mention the reason.
You've got quite a collection of different credentials there.

In late 2015, the Cabildo of the Santiago Cathedral made it officially known that they will in future refuse Spanish credentials that did not conform with their own model. There was even a tiff between Santiago and the diocese of Lugo about this. Santiago also informed the international pilgrims associations - they had to submit their models to make sure that their pilgrims' credentials were accepted in Santiago if people wanted a Compostela.

I've googled around a bit but so far I've not yet seen an image of a page in a credential where you can indicate your motive.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
1989
In the past, when getting my Credential, I was asked why I was walking.
If for spiritual or religious reasons, I could get a Compostela.
If just walking for the heck of it, I could get a pretty piece of paper saying I'd completed the pilgrimage.
Some of my Credentials even have a space for the answer to that question.
But I notice this new Credential does not have that question.
Do they no longer ask if you are walking for religious reasons?
Or is it still a requirement?
Perhaps they have begun to realize that, for many of us, when we begin the Camino and first fill in our credencial, we don't really know why we are walking. Or the answer we give at the beginning is not the answer that is true at the end. So they save the question for the end of the Camino when they need the information to determine who gets the Compostela. Some people still may not know then, but they can't wait any longer for them to figure it out.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
I had a look at the photos in this thread Post a picture of your credential! but I still couldn't see a page where you could tick the reason for your pilgrimage. If someone could post a photo of that, it would be helpful.

@David Tallan posted the photo of the credential that he had been given in 1989. The credential had not yet become a means of collecting stamps; it served to document that you had started your pilgrimage somewhere and had ended it in Santiago. I guess that there were no questions about the purpose of the pilgrimage then, no choice of motives ... or the Cathedral as an institution did not want to admit and did not want to contemplate the fact that there were major non-religious reasons for walking to Santiago?

20210223_105913-jpg.94169
 
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David Tallan

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
1989
I had a look at the photos in this thread Post a picture of your credential! but I still couldn't see a page where you could tick the reason for your pilgrimage. If someone could post a photo of that, it would be helpful.

@David Tallan posted the photo of the credential that he had been given in 1989. The credential had not yet become a means of collecting stamps; it served to document that you had started your pilgrimage somewhere and had ended it in Santiago. I guess that there were no questions about the purpose of the pilgrimage then, no choice of motives ... or the Cathedral as an institution did not want to admit and did not want to contemplate the fact that there were major non-religious reasons for walking to Santiago?

20210223_105913-jpg.94169
Actually, that credencial was intended to collect stamps. They just weren't on the front. It was made from cardstock and folded once, with spots on the inside for stamps from: Viscarret, Pamplona, Puente la Reina, Estella, Logroño, Najera, Santo Domingo de la Calzada, San Juan de Ortega, Burgos, Fromista, Villacazar de Sirga, Sahagun, Leon, Astorga, Rabanal del Camino, and Ponferrada. On the back, there were further spaces for stamps from Villafranca del Bierzo, Cebreiro, Triacastela, Sarria, Portomarin, and Palas de Rey, as well as some closing text that instructs the pilgrim to present the credencial at the end of the Camino to receive the Compostela (then called a Compostelana).

Interestingly, there was no space at the end for a stamp from Santiago de Compostela (although there is a spot on the cover, as depicted above, to write in the date of arrival in Santiago and the completion of the pilgrimage).

In terms of motivation, it doesn't speak specifically to religious or spiritual motivation but rather motivation of Pilgrimage, which is documented by the Compostela, if I am reading the Spanish correctly:

Con la presente credencial que se expide en Roncesvalles y en Jaca, y eventualmente en algún punto del Camino, podrá solicitarse la "Compostelana" en la venerable y Apostólica Iglesia Metropolitana de Santiago como documento auténtico de visita a este sacratísimo Templo por motivo de Peregrinación.
 

Annet2020

Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
I always read that you had to fill in a form (on paper) at the Pelgrims Office to obtain a Compostella. They would ask for your reasons to walk and the three options where something like: religious, spiritual and other reasons. You would get a Compostella if you walked for religious or spiritual reasons, and some other certificate if you filled in other reasons

Now they have a digital form and the options are non-religious, religious and religious&other. There's no 'spiritual' option anymore. I suppose you can choose religious&other now and get a Compostella?
 
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Jeff Robinson

New Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
I always read that you had to fill in a form (on paper) at the Pelgrims Office to obtain a Compostella. They would ask for your reasons to walk and the three options where something like: religious, spiritual and other reasons. You would get a Compostella if you walked for religious or spiritual reasons, ans some other certificate if you filled in other reasons

Now they have a digital form and the options are non-religious, religious and religious&other. There's no 'spiritual' option anymore. I suppose you can choose religious&other now and get a Compostella?
Your supposition is correct. I am volunteering in the Pilgrim Office as I write this.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Past OR future Camino
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
This is the wording, Google translated, that appears on the Compostela (copied from the Cathedral website)

The Chapter of this Holy Apostolic and Metropolitan Church Cathedral Compostela custodian of the seal of the Altar of Santiago Apóstol, to all Faithful and pilgrims who arrive from anywhere in the Orb of the Earth with an attitude of devotion or because of a vow or promise to pilgrimage to the Tomb of the Apostle, Our Patron and Protector of Spains, accredits to all who observe this document that:
... (name inserted here)
has visited this most sacred temple devoutly and with a Christian sense after having made both on foot and on horseback the last hundred kilometers or by bicycle the last two hundred with a Christian sense (pietatis causa).

In witness whereof I give you this document endorsed with the seal of this same Holy Church.

Given in Santiago de Compostela on the day ... month ... year of the Lord ...

(signed by) The Dean of the S.A.M.I. Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela
 
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Annet2020

Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
Your supposition is correct. I am volunteering in the Pilgrim Office as I write this.
Can I ask you something else?

There's the digital form on the Pelgrim's office website now. When you click 'register', choose 'single' and select English language you can fill in the form. But then the only option to continue is 'create a group'. When you select Spanish language you can continue with 'alta individual'.
I suppose it's an incorrect translation and you can continue with 'create a group' as an individual? It's confusing because I don't want to create any group, I just want to complete the digital form.

It also doesn't say you wil get a QR code when you continue, do you get a QR code to be scanned by the person giving out the Compostela?

And do you have to fill in the form on arrival or can you do it the night before? Will it still be valid the next day?
 

henrythedog

Loved and fed by David
Past OR future Camino
Frances 2017, 2018, 2019, Ingles 2018, (Madrid 2019 partial - retired hurt!) (more planned)
In the past, when getting my Credential, I was asked why I was walking.
If for spiritual or religious reasons, I could get a Compostela.
If just walking for the heck of it, I could get a pretty piece of paper saying I'd completed the pilgrimage.
Some of my Credentials even have a space for the answer to that question.
But I notice this new Credential does not have that question.
Do they no longer ask if you are walking for religious reasons?
Or is it still a requirement?
The new wording neatly avoids the moral dilemma of obtaining a compostella, which may be of spiritual significance to some, by lying about your qualification for it.

Even the Catholic Church can be pragmatic when all other options have been exhausted.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
I have just deleted several posts that I wrote a few minutes ago. Because I have finally found something where the Cathedral uses the category "spiritual". Gone is also a link to an article in El Mundo from 2010 where the categories used in the Cathedral's statistics were religious, religious/cultural and cultural. As an aside, I must say that the collection, processing and presentation of pilgrim data by the Cathedral has never struck me as particularly rigorous.

Current (2021) online application form and last year's (2020) application form on paper - perhaps this is what @Anniesantiago remembers to have seen?:

Forms.jpg
 
Past OR future Camino
Inglese 2021
Can I ask you something else?

There's the digital form on the Pelgrim's office website now. When you click 'register', choose 'single' and select English language you can fill in the form. But then the only option to continue is 'create a group'. When you select Spanish language you can continue with 'alta individual'.
I suppose it's an incorrect translation and you can continue with 'create a group' as an individual? It's confusing because I don't want to create any group, I just want to complete the digital form.

It also doesn't say you wil get a QR code when you continue, do you get a QR code to be scanned by the person giving out the Compostela?

And do you have to fill in the form on arrival or can you do it the night before? Will it still be valid the next day?
I filled this out when I arrived in SdC two weeks ago. I got to the Pilgrims office late and filled out the digital form there. I honestly don't remember now if I did it at the kiosk in front of the office or on my phone. In any event the Pilgrims office sent me a confirmation email with a number. The next day when I arrived at the counter in the pilgrims office, the person there just looked up my name and did not ask for my confirmation number, and issued me my Compostela. Maybe it helps to have an uncommon surname. She did want to see my Credential as well.
 

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