Stage distances into towns and cities Incorrect ???

[MickMac]

While walking this summer I noticed the stage distances did not seem take into account the walk through major towns like Pamplona, Logrono, etc.. am I correct ??.
It seems that after you arrive in a city outskirts the walk can be another 4-5 Kilometers sometimes, (with temps reaching 30-40 degrees heat) onto to the stated distance until you reach the old parts of the city and your albergue. Is this just fatigue ????

 

[cher99840]

I'm pretty sure that Brierley stages list distances muni to muni, therefore if you go beyond that, your distance will be greater for that day, but less for the next, if you stop at the muni in the next town.

 

[Tincatinker]

@MickMac I suspect it is just fatigue - waiting for traffic crossings, dodging other pedestrians and getting tempted / distracted by shops, bars and cafes. When I could still run cross-country the last mile was always the longest one.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Brierley: "For clarity and accuracy each stage begins and ends at the front door of a clearly specified pilgrim hostel or other clearly defined 'end point'."

Sometimes this could be at the far end of town.

[Edited to add the below:]

I don't know how others measure.

Brierley hides the "clearly specified pilgrim hostel." That is to say that the specific end point is not mentioned for any stage n but for stage n+1 you will see it in the text where the blue box labeled "km 0.0" is. It is not always the point marked "1" on the map of the end point for stage n.

 

[Old Gringo]

Last year on the VdlP I was interviewed by a grad student from University of Extremadura doing a pilgrim study. My brother who has done four or five caminos (professional ground pounder, aka soldier, for 20+ years) was sometimes exasperated by the distances given as they sometimes seemed way off. I mentioned this to her and she said there was an aggravating lack of consistency in given distances between towns in Spain, especially small ones. Ideally she said the distance given should be from main plaza to main plaza, but sometimes city limits, the alcadalria, oldest church and other things were substituted.

 

[SYates]

In each guide it should be lined out how they handle distances (hostel to hostel, town center to town center etc.)
Buen Camino, SY

 

[spursfan]

That is indeed one of the strengths of the Brierley CF guide - both the daily distances from albergue to albergue and those for the shorter intermediate distances are pretty much spot on - bar the occasional change of route forced by road works

 

[Anemone del Camino]

On the Primitivo, the hospis at the Mater Christi albergue in Tineo, tough mountaineering guys and local miners, laugh at the distances in the guide books, saying they are reduced in order not to scare away dainty ladies who don't want to break a sweat ;0).

 

[Charles Johnson]

Is it just you? Nope, but maybe it's you and me. Having finished the Camino last month, I did have the same experience that you did, and eventually just got used to it. Even more interesting was that guide books by the same author in different languages had different distances from city to city than the English version. Again, just got used to it.

I do remember (and I may even have a picture somewhere) of a road sign having a distance to the next town spray-painted with a black line through it followed by "Liar!!" We all had a good laugh at that one.

Buen Camino!!

 

[MickMac]

Did you also notice that one sign said 8 kilometers to next town then about 1 k on it says 9 kilometers ??. This happens several times along the Camino. Part of the fun on the way.

 

[KinkyOne]

AHAHAHAHA, not only that. Last year on Levante I came across this info table in El Toboso.
It says if you speak Spanish the distance between El Toboso an Villa de don Fadrique is 27kms, but if you are speaking English it's just 23,2kms to walk

 

[Felipe]

AHAHAHAHA, not only that.
It says if you speak Spanish the distance between El Toboso an Villa de don Fadrique is 27kms, but if you are speaking English it's just 23,2kms to walk
View attachment 28700

That's because you can say the same phrases in English with much less words, as seen in the panel. It does not matter how things really are, but how you call them.
Next time I will write down my name in the credential as "Philip". The distances will be then shorter.

 

[dougfitz]

In addition to that, GPS users should be wary of accepting the raw information provided at the time by their GPS units. I have just been cleaning up the track information from my Camino this year. One of the things this involves is removing the track that is generated when I know that I was stationary. It looks like this will remove about 50 km and leave just under 600 km.

This is not a surprise - the inherent inaccuracies in the GPS signal when it reaches the surface of the earth mean that successive calculations of a stationary position can vary, and make it look like that the GPS is doing a little bit of a wander to stretch its legs while you are sitting with a coffee. People may not realize how much more energetic their GPS is than they are!

 

[whariwharangi]

While walking this summer I noticed the stage distances did not seem take into account the walk through major towns like Pamplona, Logrono, etc.. am I correct ??.
It seems that after you arrive in a city outskirts the walk can be another 4-5 Kilometers sometimes, (with temps reaching 30-40 degrees heat) onto to the stated distance until you reach the old parts of the city and your albergue. Is this just fatigue ????

If I was you, next time I was on the camino I'd bring a ruler.

Make sure it has millimeters and don't forget to have it calibrated with corrections for temperature.

Bring a level ... make sure its horizontal distance and without any vertical elements due to not accounting for up and down hills.

I might suggest bringing a helper ... that way you can bring a longer ruler.

Please publish the results here.

I should tell you about the time that North America was found to be 200 meters further west than had been assumed. It took over 500 years to discover the error and correct it.

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

It is a well known and established fact among serious hikers that the last kilometre of the day is always the longest!

On a serious note, perception as @Tincatinker has noted plays a part with some days walking longer or shorter than the map. At the end of the walking day you're tired and having to adjust your vision from rural distance to village/city busyness adds to the weariness.

We used the Village to Village Guide to Walking the Camino and found that the distances were fairly accurate both map wise and on the ground... except for the walk into Triacastela which seemed to go on and on and on...

 

[MickMac]

If I was you, next time I was on the camino I'd bring a ruler.

Make sure it has millimeters and don't forget to have it calibrated with corrections for temperature.

Bring a level ... make sure its horizontal distance and without any vertical elements due to not accounting for up and down hills.

I might suggest bringing a helper ... that way you can bring a longer ruler.

Please publish the results here.

I should tell you about the time that North America was found to be 200 meters further west than had been assumed. It took over 500 years to discover the error and correct it.

"Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" so you are very very witty

 

[jmcarp]

That's because you can say the same phrases in English with much less words, as seen in the panel. It does not matter how things really are, but how you call them.
Next time I will write down my name in the credential as "Philip". The distances will be then shorter.

Ah, but Felipe/Philip, both names are six letters, so there may be a flaw in your theory. I think it has more to do with shoe sizes worn by English-speakers; for instance my US shoe size is 11, which is 10.5 in the UK, but pity the poor Europeans who wear a size 44 -- they obviously must be walking farther on their stages.

 

[Felipe]

Try guide Godesalco planifier. Just put your starting point at left, your arrival place at right, and it authomatically estimates distances. I can't give an opinion about its accuracy, but it is an interesting resource.

 

[C clearly]

but Felipe/Philip, both names are six letters, so there may be a flaw in your theory

No, there is a flaw in your thinking @jmcarp . It depends on the unit of measurement. If that is # of letters, yes they are the same. However, the English letters are very very slightly skinnier than the Spanish letters, although that also depends on the font.

 

[annakappa]

I always thought that the distances between towns, villages , etc. were calculated from the main church in each place.

 

[jmcarp]

No, there is a flaw in your thinking @jmcarp . It depends on the unit of measurement. If that is # of letters, yes they are the same. However, the English letters are very very slightly skinnier than the Spanish letters, although that also depends on the font.

Dang, and here I thought I had the answer to the mysteries of the universe.

 

[jmcarp]

I always thought that the distances between towns, villages , etc. were calculated from the main church in each place.

I think that's the way the governmental or civil authorities calculate the distance for road signs, such as the "Santiago 790 km" sign in Roncesvalles. As far as I know, official road distances here in the US are measured from the location of the county courthouse or city hall. Both English-language guidebooks I have state that the distances for the stages are calculated from and to the main albergue at the end of each stage; presumably the intermediate distances are based on the main albergue in the towns and villages along the way. For instance, Brierley says "For clarity and accuracy each stage begins and ends at the front door of a clearly specified pilgrim hostel." Dintaman and Landis say "All stage routes begin and end at the main or largest albergue in each respective town."

 

[annakappa]

I think that's the way the governmental or civil authorities calculate the distance for road signs, such as the "Santiago 790 km" sign in Roncesvalles. As far as I know, official road distances here in the US are measured from the location of the county courthouse or city hall. Both English-language guidebooks I have state that the distances for the stages are calculated from and to the main albergue at the end of each stage; presumably the intermediate distances are based on the main albergue in the towns and villages along the way. For instance, Brierley says "For clarity and accuracy each stage begins and ends at the front door of a clearly specified pilgrim hostel." Dintaman and Landis say "All stage routes begin and end at the main or largest albergue in each respective town."

But I don't think the Spanish government, when posting distance between locations on their road signs use an English language guidebook as their basis

 

[jmcarp]

But I don't think the Spanish government, when posting distance between locations on their road signs use an English language guidebook as their basis

I didn't mean to imply that the government uses Camino guidebooks to establish distances; I was merely pointing out that the landmarks used by the guidebooks are different than the "official" government distances and that that accounts for at least some of the differences between the stated differences. Because the Camino follows numerous trails and minor roads, it is to be expected that the differences vary -- sometimes significantly, sometimes not.

 

[ChloeRose]

Some guidebooks are simply incorrect unfortunately. Also, in the time it takes for the guides to establish a distance and publish their annual edition, the route could have been changed. In France it's a very common problem; locals will move the signs themselves to route pilgrims further away from their homes (or closer to their businesses!) Even if they notify their local government, it's too late to change the book until the next year.

 

[GlenysP]

I think that's the way the governmental or civil authorities calculate the distance for road signs, such as the "Santiago 790 km" sign in Roncesvalles. As far as I know, official road distances here in the US are measured from the location of the county courthouse or city hall. Both English-language guidebooks I have state that the distances for the stages are calculated from and to the main albergue at the end of each stage; presumably the intermediate distances are based on the main albergue in the towns and villages along the way. For instance, Brierley says "For clarity and accuracy each stage begins and ends at the front door of a clearly specified pilgrim hostel." Dintaman and Landis say "All stage routes begin and end at the main or largest albergue in each respective town."

Interesting how various countries calculate distance. Re:Australia...I was told years ago that measurements were from the General Post Office (GPO) to the next large town's GPO. I imagine that smaller towns were to the small post offices.

 

[bunnymac]

While walking this summer I noticed the stage distances did not seem take into account the walk through major towns like Pamplona, Logrono, etc.. am I correct ??.
It seems that after you arrive in a city outskirts the walk can be another 4-5 Kilometers sometimes, (with temps reaching 30-40 degrees heat) onto to the stated distance until you reach the old parts of the city and your albergue. Is this just fatigue ????

Would you ever stop giving out

 

[MickMac]

Did you make it bunny.

 

[bunnymac]

Did you make it bunny.

We made it to Santiago last Friday. Between the three of us the only complaints were two small blisters and maybe one toenail. Great to have met you and your brother.

 

[MickMac]

Well done Bunny did your leg hold up and the wee girls knee. ???

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I think distances in the guide books are like traffic signals in Saudi--just a suggestion. I found the guides disagreed with each other, and with GPS, and road signs. On the part of the Camino that required road walking I would occasionally see road sign distances go up rather than down (was that ever discouraging in the pouring rain).
I found (for myself only, not generalizing) this to be yet one more lesson in living in the moment.

 

[whariwharangi]

The official survey is being done.

I wouldn't hold my breath though ... it was muttering something about having lost count somewhere near Viana.



That's bureaucracy ... moving at a snail's pace.