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STOP SPRAYING LAVENDER OIL !

KJFSophie

My Way, With Joy !
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2014 & 2015 ) ,Via San Francesco, Italy (2017 )
Camino Portugese (2018 )
#1
Currently walking the Portuguese Way and trying to understand why persons are literally doucing themselves, their bedding, mattresses, etc in lavender oil?!?!? I know some feel this is a deterrent to bedbugs, but it is rather selfish to spray everything down like crazy. I have suffered two nights so far in a lower bunk where the young lady nearly bathed in the stuff( extra sprays in her long hair, all over the bunk mattress, and all over her backpacks which were on the floor near me.) I had instant severe headaches and difficulty breathing all night. STOP BEING SO SELF ABSORBED! Consider how your actions are harming others. Use less, spray only out of the bunk area, keep your sprayed belongings near you, get a private room . Seriously, I’m choking and I’m appalled at the lack of courtesy.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
St Olav/Francés ('16)
Baztanés/Francés ('17)
Ingles ('18)
#2
Bummer. I can understand your frustration, Sophie, even if there's not much posting here will do short of allowing you to vent. If you feel the need to do something, though, consider (gently) telling the people who are doing this that it actually doesn't work. Or simply wait until they get their first bedbug bites to allow the situation to self-correct.;)
People will do a host of inconsiderate and useless things. Sadly. So there's no escape. The best solution with things like this is to walk on and take care of yourself - maybe a night in single accommodation, or walking further or shorter so you can get out of synch with the lavender lady.
 

MichaelB10398

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago de Compostela, Lourdes to SdC, SJPP to SdC
#3
The Camino is open to all regardless of beliefs, or no beliefs. There is absolutely no requirements for anyone to walk, bike, ride, fly, or any other method to do the Camino. People come from around the world to do it and each is different.
The fact that someone is different from you does not mean they are self-absorbed or thoughtless. It means they are different and have different expectations.
Sophie, please understand that I am like you and I hate the stuff. However, I have two sisters that swear by it. They think these essential oils are God's gifts to humanity and that there is an essential oil for any ailment, sickness, pain, etc. I think it is a crock, but they are different from me.
I think we need to walk on eggshells around others. If someone begins to use a chemical, spray a fragrance then quietly, politely ask them to refrain doing so or to please do it outside where others are not forced to breathe the same thing; explain that it negatively affects your breathing. Once you have identified another pilgrim using these things then plan on avoiding the same albergue or at least stay on the opposite side. I would even speed up or slow down to avoid them.
Part of the Camino is finding that it is not about me and my problems, but about others and helping them.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances , St Jean Pied de Port - Finisterra May/ June 2017
Le Puy en Velay - Ales May 2018
#4
I wrote this in February of last year ,

As regards essential oils , I have observed them to be fairly useless against insects . Once while camped for the night in a sand fly and mosquito infested swamp a woman from the bush walking party sharing the site literally smothered her tent and clothing with lavender oil. The smell was horrendous , so strong that at ten pm the three of us upped stumps and moved forty metres away to a horrible uncomfortable spot that at least didn't stink.
Next morning I woke to see the offender literally covered in bites and resembling a pink Dalmation .
'' I don't believe in chemicals '' she said as she packed to return home to take antihistamines.


Someone has probably testified to the effectiveness of lavender oil against bedbugs on social media and this has fueled the resurgence of its use . The same logic applies to the roses I plant in my front garden , I did this to deter Elephants and Hippos from my yard , so far it has worked very effectively :)
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
#5
I have to confess to being a user of essential oils at home. I have about 100 that are used for all manner of things, from treating upset stomachs, to pain relief from burns, etc. I use them because for certain applications, they work.

I use lavender oil a lot for treating insect bites. I am a magnet for insects like mosquitoes. If I walk into our garden at dusk I'll be bitten 10 times in as many seconds. And the bites come up in big red itchy blotches. Lavender oil gives instant relief if dabbed on the bites. Like one drop is enough.

As a repellent though.........? I've tried and never seen it work.

By all means tell me the use of essential oils is nonsense if you must.
I must be imagining it I guess :p
And tell my wife who immediately grabs the lavender oil for a burn in the kitchen ;)

P.S. I do carry a small amount on Camino! :eek:
But only to use in very small amounts to treat insect bites and sunburn.
 
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Isca-camigo

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Various ones.
#6
You need to bring it up with the person or people doing it near you at the time. Here is too late and there is no guarantee that the people who use Lavender oil and post on this forum will even see this post and will be alerted to negative effects on other people.
 
#7
The OP did, perhaps did not, refrain from the one action that would alleviate her concerns - address the matter directly with the perpetrator.
Not rudely, but loudly and clearly.
I once liberally smothered a similar offender in a cloud of flyspray from an aerosol can I found in the kitchen. Subsequent events suggest my actions should at best be considered the final deterrent approach, not the first.
Whatever, either approach requires a certain amount of courage, the lack of which clearly demonstrates an over abundance of what physcologists term agreeableness, exhibited by the lack of ability to stand up for oneself.

I of course exhibited a distinct lack of agreeableness.
The search for balance in life appears to be an ongoing conundrum.

Regards
Gerard
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
St Olav/Francés ('16)
Baztanés/Francés ('17)
Ingles ('18)
#8
Whatever, either approach requires a certain amount of courage, the lack of which clearly demonstrates an over abundance of what physcologists term agreeableness, exhibited by the lack of ability to stand up for oneself.
I of course exhibited a distinct lack of agreeableness.
The search for balance in life appears to be an ongoing conundrum.
:D
Gerard, you just nailed it.
 

KJFSophie

My Way, With Joy !
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2014 & 2015 ) ,Via San Francesco, Italy (2017 )
Camino Portugese (2018 )
#11
The OP did, perhaps did not, refrain from the one action that would alleviate her concerns.
Address the matter directly with the perpetrator.
Not rudely, but loudly and clearly.
I once liberally smothered a similar offender in a cloud of flyspray from an aerosol can I found in the kitchen. Subsequent events suggest my actions should at best be considered a final deterrent approach, not the first.
Whatever, either approach requires a certain amount of courage, the lack of which clearly demonstrates an over abundance of what physcologists term agreeableness, exhibited by the lack of ability to stand up for oneself.

I of course exhibited a distinct lack of agreeableness.
The search for balance in life appears to be an ongoing conundrum.

Regards
Gerard
Gerard, I AM a psychologist. What I’m referring to is the blatant disregard for others in common settings. There was not one offender, but several over the few weeks. These young ladies generally enter the dorm very late at night and I, and others were awakened by the oblivious overuse of the stuff. It’s not a matter of not standing up for oneself, but finding it an inappropriate time with others sleeping to start a discussion.

We can also bring up tolerance until the sun burns out. There is a common theme here on the forum of tolerating others, but inappropriate, self serving behaviors should not have to be tolerated, especially when causing harm to another .

My point is that pilgrims need to be more aware of how their actions are affecting others. Albergues are communities and not self serving free for alls. I find it quite disheartening that this, and other inappropriate behaviors have become much more apparent on this, my fifth Camino. I’m not sure if it’s a random blend of pilgrims with rude behaviors or if I’m simply sick of having to be tolerant . Either way, it’s put a damper on my experience ( and agreed by several I’m walking with , not I alone )
 

KJFSophie

My Way, With Joy !
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2014 & 2015 ) ,Via San Francesco, Italy (2017 )
Camino Portugese (2018 )
#12
You need to bring it up with the person or people doing it near you at the time. Here is too late and there is no guarantee that the people who use Lavender oil and post on this forum will even see this post and will be alerted to negative effects on other people.
But there is a slight chance that someone will read this and hesitate for just one moment to evaluate their behavior.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#13
But there is a slight chance that someone will read this and hesitate for just one moment to evaluate their behavior.
Yes. I agree.
And I, for the record, HATE essential oils being used in community space.
I do use SOME, however others give me a violent reaction.
There is no "one size fits all."

This is one reason I generally book private lodgings now when I walk the Camino.

I once was sprayed with an oil by a woman who was selling DoTerra oils.
She didn't ask... she just doused me, as she mewed, "They're orGANic!"
I was in bed for 4 days!
She's lucky my "Bakersfield" didn't come out and she didn't get flattened!

I don't know that there is an answer - people just seem to be into themselves more and more these days.
But MAYBE someone WILL read this thread before they walk and leave their danged oils at home!
(Besides the fact that they do NOT deter bedbugs!)
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances: St Jean Pied-de-Port to Santiago, on to Fisterra, Muxia and back to Santiago. (April-June 2016)
#14
Gerard, I AM a psychologist. What I’m referring to is the blatant disregard for others in common settings. There was not one offender, but several over the few weeks. These young ladies generally enter the dorm very late at night and I, and others were awakened by the oblivious overuse of the stuff. It’s not a matter of not standing up for oneself, but finding it an inappropriate time with others sleeping to start a discussion.

We can also bring up tolerance until the sun burns out. There is a common theme here on the forum of tolerating others, but inappropriate, self serving behaviors should not have to be tolerated, especially when causing harm to another .

My point is that pilgrims need to be more aware of how their actions are affecting others. Albergues are communities and not self serving free for alls. I find it quite disheartening that this, and other inappropriate behaviors have become much more apparent on this, my fifth Camino. I’m not sure if it’s a random blend of pilgrims with rude behaviors or if I’m simply sick of having to be tolerant . Either way, it’s put a damper on my experience ( and agreed by several I’m walking with , not I alone )

Kind of as in Life. Whilst I agree that “pilgrims need to be more aware of how their actions are affecting others”, so do we all. How do they become more aware, unless engaged somehow? There are so many actions of “trespass” - orange peels, tissues and other trail detritus, late night/early morning talkers and headlamp shiners, snorers, CPAP users,....the list goes on.

Your post leaves me reflecting about how my own words and actions might affect others? How, at times, I need for them to tell me their perspectives, or to remind me of something about which I “should” know better.

On the Camino, as in life, I’ve found that some form of open and friendly engagement usually works.
 

Isca-camigo

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Various ones.
#15
But there is a slight chance that someone will read this and hesitate for just one moment to evaluate their behavior.
Maybe, but when someone does something like that they may not even realise they are affecting other people, they need to be alerted at the time to the affects on their immediate environment and their neighbours, if she ignored you then it gets interesting, not sure what I would do in those circumstances, but I have seen some beautiful examples of patience and holding back for the greater peace of the other pilgrims and the dorm, touch wood I remember those special people and their example.
 

Roger0704

Let's walk the talk.....
Camino(s) past & future
I did CF April/May 2018...
Gonna Do Camino Norte April 2019
#16
The Camino is open to all regardless of beliefs, or no beliefs. There is absolutely no requirements for anyone to walk, bike, ride, fly, or any other method to do the Camino. People come from around the world to do it and each is different.
The fact that someone is different from you does not mean they are self-absorbed or thoughtless. It means they are different and have different expectations.
Sophie, please understand that I am like you and I hate the stuff. However, I have two sisters that swear by it. They think these essential oils are God's gifts to humanity and that there is an essential oil for any ailment, sickness, pain, etc. I think it is a crock, but they are different from me.
I think we need to walk on eggshells around others. If someone begins to use a chemical, spray a fragrance then quietly, politely ask them to refrain doing so or to please do it outside where others are not forced to breathe the same thing; explain that it negatively affects your breathing. Once you have identified another pilgrim using these things then plan on avoiding the same albergue or at least stay on the opposite side. I would even speed up or slow down to avoid them.
Part of the Camino is finding that it is not about me and my problems, but about others and helping them.
Well...
You can also help other by pointing out that t doesn't help and it effects other people..
Why should we always walk on egg shells???
The camino for me is just a trip that is about me..
Finding my fears and my problems and deal with it..
Iff this would be one of my problems I would deal with it, kindly but to the point.
Why should one person influence 1 whole room??
No sometimes the kindest way to be is to be honest to yourself and take action
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
#17
Tolerance is to be admired, but inappropriate and thoughtless behaviour by others needs to be 'called out' I think. Not to do so, just condones the behaviour and people will never learn.

I have yet to experience communal living in an Albergue. (plenty of it in my military days)
But I plan to try them on my next Camino, as I will have little choice on many days.

I suspect my tolerance level is lower than most, so the experience should be an interesting one!
I'm contemplating taking a sleeping mat so I can sleep outside ;)
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances-(2013/14/18
Camino Salvado Perth -(2015)
West Highland Way (2016)
Lyon France 2017
#19
Currently walking the Portuguese Way and trying to understand why persons are literally doucing themselves, their bedding, mattresses, etc in lavender oil?!?!? I know some feel this is a deterrent to bedbugs, but it is rather selfish to spray everything down like crazy. I have suffered two nights so far in a lower bunk where the young lady nearly bathed in the stuff( extra sprays in her long hair, all over the bunk mattress, and all over her backpacks which were on the floor near me.) I had instant severe headaches and difficulty breathing all night. STOP BEING SO SELF ABSORBED! Consider how your actions are harming others. Use less, spray only out of the bunk area, keep your sprayed belongings near you, get a private room . Seriously, I’m choking and I’m appalled at the lack of courtesy.
I find myself agreeing with you....this is a really selfish and unthinking action both this particular persons behalf and others who do the same.
Sadly, essential oils and heavily perfumed products do NOT agree with a lot of folk. My son in particular, suffers dreadful reactions to some of these sprays and lotions....To witness a person in the clutches of a 'suicidal type migraine' is just dreadful to have to watch and all because of a thoughtless act in terms of how it will, or , maybe will, affect others.
Currently walking the Portuguese Way and trying to understand why persons are literally doucing themselves, their bedding, mattresses, etc in lavender oil?!?!? I know some feel this is a deterrent to bedbugs, but it is rather selfish to spray everything down like crazy. I have suffered two nights so far in a lower bunk where the young lady nearly bathed in the stuff( extra sprays in her long hair, all over the bunk mattress, and all over her backpacks which were on the floor near me.) I had instant severe headaches and difficulty breathing all night. STOP BEING SO SELF ABSORBED! Consider how your actions are harming others. Use less, spray only out of the bunk area, keep your sprayed belongings near you, get a private room . Seriously, I’m choking and I’m appalled at the lack of courtesy.
Ixgreecwithbou. Please people stop me think about how your fellow travellers may rect.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
#20
The chances are extremely high that they didn't know they were causing discomfort to others, they might even have thought that they were helping others, so communication is the key I think.

Lavender fronds have been used by the southern French to deter scorpions from entering a house for thousands of years, and, yes, it does work. Don't know re bedbugs.

I am not sure that an essential oil would have the same effect as natural lavender.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata.
#22
@David the evidence from actual studies is that lavender oil is not a deterrent. It does kill bedbugs if you smother them in it. So you would need a lot of lavender oil and a lot of patience to find each bedbug and get a direct hit.

A brick would work just as well.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Newbie (Nov, 18)
#26
I thought of suggesting a deliberately off-hand comedic remark to them to perhaps hint that their behaviour is not fantastic...

However, I'm still sat here 5 minutes later trying to think of a lavender based joke...
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances: St Jean Pied-de-Port to Santiago, on to Fisterra, Muxia and back to Santiago. (April-June 2016)
#30
I thought of suggesting a deliberately off-hand comedic remark to them to perhaps hint that their behaviour is not fantastic...

However, I'm still sat here 5 minutes later trying to think of a lavender based joke...
Spray on the scent, and you’ll never have to wash again. It’s lavé ender.
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Via de La Plata (spring, 2019)
#31
I am pretty tolerant of the idiosyncrasies of others in the albergue. But strong scents are the limit for me. I also get headaches and just find that it infuriates me when others claim my air space. Last year, people with some sickly sweet menthol smell... I don't know if it was a foot rub or what. Can't stand it. And I hate the smell of lavender, period.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#32
I am pretty tolerant of the idiosyncrasies of others in the albergue. But strong scents are the limit for me. I also get headaches and just find that it infuriates me when others claim my air space. Last year, people with some sickly sweet menthol smell... I don't know if it was a foot rub or what. Can't stand it. And I hate the smell of lavender, period.
Haha! I can't bear most scents but rosemary, eucalyptus, and wintergreen actually calm my MCS. I've been known to carry a blob of Bengay in a hankie on a flight, or rub it inside my mask when I fly to block the scent of perfume in the cabin.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2013)
#34
It's not uncommon where I live to see notices in doctors' offices and other public spaces asking people to limit the use of scents due to other persons' sensitivities. As has been said in posts above people just need to be educated. I'm not suggesting that signs be put up in albergues - no one wants more signs - but perhaps those of us - like me - who are not affected negatively by scents could speak up when we encounter pilgrims offending and let them know that some people have serious negative reactions to strong scents and that they may keep this In mind before using scents in a closed environment. To tell the truth I knew that some people have difficulty with strong scents, but I didn't appreciate that there are those who are made violently ill by them.

Of course, there's the downside of speaking up as there may be a backlash, and no one wants to be accused of being the 'albergue police.'

Just my musings ..... on a quiet morning after a long weekend.
 

Cybermum

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances may 2019 Portuguese Feb 2019
#35
I have to confess to being a user of essential oils at home. I have about 100 that are used for all manner of things, from treating upset stomachs, to pain relief from burns, etc. I use them because for certain applications, they work.

I use lavender oil a lot for treating insect bites. I am a magnet for insects like mosquitoes. If I walk into our garden at dusk I'll be bitten 10 times in as many seconds. And the bites come up in big red itchy blotches. Lavender oil gives instant relief if dabbed on the bites. Like one drop is enough.

As a repellent though.........? I've tried and never seen it work.

By all means tell me the use of essential oils is nonsense if you must.
I must be imagining it I guess :p
And tell my wife who immediately grabs the lavender oil for a burn in the kitchen ;)

P.S. I do carry a small amount on Camino! :eek:
But only to use in very small amounts to treat insect bites and sunburn.
Use avons skin so soft. Military use it
 
#36
I have to confess to being a user of essential oils at home. I have about 100 that are used for all manner of things, from treating upset stomachs, to pain relief from burns, etc. I use them because for certain applications, they work.

I use lavender oil a lot for treating insect bites. I am a magnet for insects like mosquitoes. If I walk into our garden at dusk I'll be bitten 10 times in as many seconds. And the bites come up in big red itchy blotches. Lavender oil gives instant relief if dabbed on the bites. Like one drop is enough.

As a repellent though.........? I've tried and never seen it work.

By all means tell me the use of essential oils is nonsense if you must.
I must be imagining it I guess :p
And tell my wife who immediately grabs the lavender oil for a burn in the kitchen ;)

P.S. I do carry a small amount on Camino! :eek:
But only to use in very small amounts to treat insect bites and sunburn.
Thanks, @Robo ... for your ‘balanced’ post ...

Essential Oils are concentrates ... and are used medicinally by many, worldwide.
They are prescribed by medically qualified practitioners in some countries, for both internal and external use ... for personal use.

Once a concentrated volatile oil is released into a confined space, it permeates the air, (depending upon the the amount of oil and the size of the enclosed space, of course) ... and is inhaled by anyone and everyone within that space ....

Some may dislike having it imposed upon them .. to some it might cause a headache, a migraine, or any other painful reaction ... both of which are good reasons to avoid using any essential oil, in any quantity likely to affect others.

More seriously .... It might cause an immediate life-threatening allergic response .... or it might cause a severe reaction, requiring medical intervention, in those with a sensitivity to many, often unidentified, substances.

Using a small amount of diluted lavender EO, (eg. 5% dilution in a carrier oil) on one’s own skin, is unlikely to affect anyone else.

Incidentally .... an aversion to/dislike of the smell of any essential oil is a contraindication for its use ...

There is increasing awareness of the dangers of allergens .... in our food, the air we breathe (for instance, the recycled air in the the cabins of aircraft) etc.

A gently worded reminder, in any albuerge/hostal/other shared accommodation .... anywhere .... not just on Camino ... might be helpful.
All of us need a nudge sometimes ... ;)
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
#42
Once a concentrated volatile oil is released into a confined space, it permeates the air, (depending upon the the amount of oil and the size of the enclosed space, of course) ... and is inhaled by anyone and everyone within that space ....

Some may dislike having it imposed upon them .. to some it might cause a headache, a migraine, or any other painful reaction ... both of which are good reasons to avoid using any essential oil, in any quantity likely to affect others.

More seriously .... It might cause an immediate life-threatening allergic response .... or it might cause a severe reaction, requiring medical intervention, in those with a sensitivity to many, often unidentified, substances.
That sounds like the Madrid airport, a perfume mall with a runway attached.;)
 

martyseville

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
a/a
#45
Yes. I agree.
And I, for the record, HATE essential oils being used in community space.
I do use SOME, however others give me a violent reaction.
There is no "one size fits all."

This is one reason I generally book private lodgings now when I walk the Camino.

I once was sprayed with an oil by a woman who was selling DoTerra oils.
She didn't ask... she just doused me, as she mewed, "They're orGANic!"
I was in bed for 4 days!
She's lucky my "Bakersfield" didn't come out and she didn't get flattened!

I don't know that there is an answer - people just seem to be into themselves more and more these days.
But MAYBE someone WILL read this thread before they walk and leave their danged oils at home!
(Besides the fact that they do NOT deter bedbugs!)
If anyone did such to me they would be walking around with a few less teeth.

Look at the chemical attacks in mostly the London area. At random splashing a chemical liquid on people and in their face.

I will not stand by having someone do what you described. To wait and see if it was harmless liquid.

I assume all such things are harmful. Being on the Camino is no exception. Especially in today’s world.

You throw something in my face or at me you suffer the consequences.

I notice that there are more and more rude people these days.

Thank God the majority are nice wonderful people.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Newbie (Nov, 18)
#48
I'm bored so I'm looking at stuff. It's the Dry Oil that's the ticket rather than the many other types.

It's not an urban myth that the military use it. However there are better options, with deet - that are a less nice.

It costs so little, I'd try it, if it doesnt work, bin it...Just don't spray it over Sophie! ;)
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
#49
Camino(s) past & future
Planning on startting first time at e d of april start of may
#50
I understand peoples feelings on this! However, considering what is going on in the world today with sickness, homelessness, poverty , wars, injustice , when you are on camino and having the luxury to do so ( some may disagree ) but many people would love too do the camino but cant afford too because of financial difficulties or problems with families etc. I think they would trade one night in an alberque with lavender scent too be on the pilgrimage again or even for the first time too realise theyre dream!! Realise when you are lucky and recognise the real hardships some people are going through in life and it cert aint lavender or any other oil
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
#51
I think they would trade one night in an alberque with lavender scent too be on the pilgrimage again or even for the first time too realise theyre dream!!
Realise when you are lucky and recognise the real hardships some people are going through
I am a tad puzzled. Is this a defense of lavender spray? They might be even happier to be in a non-lavender-scented albergue.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
St Olav/Francés ('16)
Baztanés/Francés ('17)
Ingles ('18)
#52
I am a tad puzzled. Is this a defense of lavender spray?
I take it to be a reality check, @C clearly. This is a First World problem. Annoying, yes, defiitely. But not that big a deal. (Assuming when I say this that people with severe allergies have the sense not to stay in communal accommodation).
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Ch. d'Arles: Oloron Ste Marie to Aragones; Frances (2016); V.d.l.P.; Sanabres (2017)
#53
I avoid perfumes of any kind, although I think I am only a little allergic to them, but I would like to suggest the value of one natural oil, specifically oil of cloves. My dentist uses it to calm a toothache, for example, sore jaw after extraction. I used to take a small vial with me in case I had a dental emergency when in the back country. I would ask for it if I had a dental problem in Spain and no immediate access to a dentist. A drop or two on a cotton swab applied to the sore area is the usual way to apply this. It is not sprayed or spread around and I don't believe it could bother anyone if someone else used it. But of course this a first aid measure for a toothache, to be referred to a dentist as soon as possible.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Planning on startting first time at e d of april start of may
#55
I am a tad puzzled. Is this a defense of lavender spray? They might be even happier to be in a non-lavender-scented albergue.
Its ok too be confused!
My point being- if having too put up with a lavender scented room for one night is one of the worst things that happen too you in life or on camino - then youre very lucky!
These things happen
 

Jodean

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
22 Sept. to 21 Oct. 2015, Pamplona to Santiago
6-23.04 Porto to Santiago 2018
17.09-30.09 CF 2018
#57
The Camino FB pages are fillled with people claiming that lavender works and also silk sheets to prevent bed bug bites. People want to believe this and nothing you say will change their minds.
I do wish the scientific community would do some tests to show the invalidity of these things.
 

Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
#59
The Camino FB pages are fillled with people claiming that lavender works and also silk sheets to prevent bed bug bites. People want to believe this and nothing you say will change their minds.
I do wish the scientific community would do some tests to show the invalidity of these things.
Many of "these things" have been tested and disproved. The problem is that where there are competing claims people are often inclined to choose the option they are already predisposed towards rather than the one best supported by evidence. If one "expert" promotes a view we like there is a tendency to cling to that and disregard the majority view. So we end up with the demands for equal airtime or column-inches for fringe beliefs supported by little or no solid science.
 

Jodean

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
22 Sept. to 21 Oct. 2015, Pamplona to Santiago
6-23.04 Porto to Santiago 2018
17.09-30.09 CF 2018
#60
If there are studies, it would be great if you could share links to them. All I ever seem to find are the studies testing what kills them, not what repels them.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
#61
If there are studies, it would be great if you could share links to them. All I ever seem to find are the studies testing what kills them, not what repels them.
How about this link that I already posted on this thread? I found it with a quick google search.
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
#64
From the CDC:

Prevent Bug Bites

Bugs (including mosquitoes, ticks, and some flies) can spread diseases (including Zika, dengue, and Lyme disease), many of which cannot be prevented or treated with a vaccine or medicine. Reduce your risk by taking steps to prevent bug bites. See below for special instructions to protect babies, children, and pregnant women.

Use Insect Repellent

Use EPA-registered insect repellents that contain at least 20% DEET (products include Cutter Backwoods and Off! Deep Woods) for protection against mosquitoes, ticks, and other bugs. Other repellents protect against mosquitoes but may not be effective against ticks or other bugs:
 
#66
I take it to be a reality check, @C clearly. This is a First World problem. Annoying, yes, defiitely. But not that big a deal. (Assuming when I say this that people with severe allergies have the sense not to stay in communal accommodation).
@VNwalking
I am ‘a tad puzzled’ by this:

“(Assuming when I say this that people with severe allergies have the sense not to stay in communal accommodation).”

Allergies affect all mankind, not only those living in ‘First world’ countries. The number of children affected by allergies has been rising, worldwide.

By logical extension, your statement would cover not only refugios, hostels, emergency shelters etc., but also any public space.
Should those with severe allergies also avoid public transport, markets, schools, shop, hospitals, libraries etc, etc.
Should they, in fact, stay at home ... ‘assuming’ they have one ... in order to avoid accidentally coming into contact with an allergen?

Many pilgrims, even from ‘first world’ countries, have do not have the financial means to ‘avoid’ using communal dorms.
Even if they had ‘the sense’ and the money to afford private accommodation, there would be no guarantee that the previous occupant hadn’t used an allergen.
 
#67
No. Not seriously. It was a wind-up mate.

Perhaps all posts that are intended as ‘wind-ups’ .... ie are essentially untruths .... could be ‘flagged’ in some way, perhaps with a ‘wink’ ?

‘Setting a trap’ for those whom you wish to mock, for whatever reason, isn’t really very funny in the ‘public’ context of this forum, particularly in threads which evoke extreme reactions, based on personal experience/spiritual vs secular/prejudice/assumptions et al.

Can we not recognise that every member of this forum is an individual human being .... each with our own unique motives and experiences.

Surely respect and goodwill sheds more light into the darkness?
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
#68
Something is really leaving me flabbergasted about allergies even after much reading and thinking. Not only to the scents but also to dust, milk products, gluten etc. etc. etc. OK, I'm not really old (48) but I just don't remember that anyone mentioned such medical problem or any newspaper article for that matter on the topic more than 15-20 years ago (in my part of the world). What happened???
Suddenly half of the population has some kind of allergy.

Well, I have one too that goes from my early years. I'm extremely allergic to stupidity ;)
 
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
St Olav/Francés ('16)
Baztanés/Francés ('17)
Ingles ('18)
#69
Allergies affect all mankind, not only those living in ‘First world’ countries.
I don't have numbers, but I work with a lot people in America, Europe, and developing Asia - and Westerners (especially Americans) are much more sensitive and allergic than everyone else, hands down. In the 'third world' country I reside in for at least half the year, severe allergies are almost unheard of.
And Westerners (again particularly Americans) are more likely to be 'sensitive' or just plain fussy about scents, foods, germs. mold...pretty much everything.
I have no intention to be political, becasue it's not a political statement, just my experience, which is not insignificant. We tend to be more like hothouse flowers than weeds.

Should those with severe allergies also avoid public transport, markets, schools, shop, hospitals, libraries etc, etc.
Should they, in fact, stay at home ... ‘assuming’ they have one ... in order to avoid accidentally coming into contact with an allergen?
I personally know several people who have to do exactly that because they are exquisitely sensitive to something - whether it be scent, mold, or EMF. Or when they go out they have to take extensive medical support 'in case.' I'm not saying this to be callous, but that's what they need to to do navigate this world with it's infinite number of allergens and stimuli.
Anyone with strong sensitivities and allergies learns by necessity to take care of themselves, and avoid places where they may be triggered. They know that demanding that the world change to conform to their medical limitations is impossible - and the people I know with strong chemical sensitivities wouldn't be able to stay in an albergue and wouldn't even try.
That's where I was coming from @chinacat.

The world is not a 'safe space' and we can't demand that it be one.
But we can try to be considerate of each other. In communal spaces, it's basically an act of kindness to be sensitive and think of others rather than demanding that everyone put up with our quirky preferences.
But - of course - not everyone is kind.
And dousing others with essential oils - lavender, tea tree, whatever - is basically self-centered obliviousness. It's obnoxious, and thoughtless. We can try to talk to the offender, but we basically have to learn to deal with our own reactions. Because that's just the way it is...unfortunately part of the package when one is sharing space with other people. In an albergue, there will always be someone in their own little bubble, doing something.
If it's not one thing it's another.
And there is no shortage of alternative accommodation for anyyone who can't cope with that, for whatever reason.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2006) portugues(2013)San Salvador (2017)
#70
Perhaps all posts that are intended as ‘wind-ups’ .... ie are essentially untruths .... could be ‘flagged’ in some way, perhaps with a ‘wink’ ?

‘Setting a trap’ for those whom you wish to mock, for whatever reason, isn’t really very funny in the ‘public’ context of this forum, particularly in threads which evoke extreme reactions, based on personal experience/spiritual vs secular/prejudice/assumptions et al.

Can we not recognise that every member of this forum is an individual human being .... each with our own unique motives and experiences.

Surely respect and goodwill sheds more light into the darkness?
Chinacat, thank you for your questions. I have been slightly uncomfortable with having sent a reply on another thread, and your suggestion of a wink emoji could have helped, but in fact, this is about a number of things, including humour. Experience has taught me that it does not always translate very well. In addition, when we take time to remember that there are people of many first languages communicating here via English, it is amazing we have so few misunderstandings. Thanks for the reminder! And I don’t need to add an emoji, I am serious!
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#71
No. Not seriously. It was a wind-up mate.
@gerardcarey, it sounded like fun when you posted the first message about spraying others with fly killer spray or something like that. It didn't sound so fun in your second reply to @JabbaPapa. But on the other hand, this forum looks like it's turning more and more into a fun forum anyway. :cool:
 
#72
@VNwalking
I was taken aback by the stark language of your post, and how it might have been ‘read’ by anyone dealing with allergies, particularly anyone dealing with ‘allergy-bullying’.

I agree that there are fewer incidences of allergy in those parts of the world where a traditional diet and lifestyle, (eg a diet of locally grown food) have not been replaced by a ‘western’ lifestyle and diet (including most ‘third world’ countries, but also, for instance, parts of Greece, and Japan).

Mould and its adverse effects, were mentioned in Leviticus (Old Testament).

Quote: “They know that demanding that the world change to conform to their medical limitations is impossible.”

“Demanding”?
I have no personal experience of anyone with a severe allergy demanding that the world change to conform to their medical limitations.
But is it really “not that big a deal” ... that those with a severe allergy should have to avoid communal spaces.

Quote: “The world is not a 'safe space' and we can't demand that it be one.
But we can try to be considerate of each other. In communal spaces, it's basically an act of kindness to be sensitive and think of others rather than demanding that everyone put up with our quirky preferences.
But - of course - not everyone is kind.
And dousing others with essential oils - lavender, tea tree, whatever - is basically self-centered obliviousness. It's obnoxious, and thoughtless. We can try to talk to the offender, but we basically have to learn to deal with our own reactions. Because that's just the way it is...unfortunately part of the package when one is sharing space with other people. In an albergue, there will always be someone in their own little bubble, doing something.
If it's not one thing it's another.
And there is no shortage of alternative accommodation for anyyone who can't cope with that, for whatever reason.”

*See my post #36 above ....
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#74
I thought I might find a more fun definition but failed due to the shortage of time. So here's from Wiki:
  • Fallacy of relative privation (also known as "appeal to worse problems" or "not as bad as") – dismissing an argument or complaint due to the existence of more important problems in the world, regardless of whether those problems bear relevance to the initial argument. First World problems are a subset of this fallacy.
This thread had (and still has) some interesting info. For example, I didn't even know that people can be allergic to smells in a physical way, ie when they inhale volatile particles of ethereal oils. I applaud those who don't get tired of trying to impart knowledge about the difference between insect repellent and insect killing agents. Or even the difference between various kind of insects and how they react or don't react to various agents. During our last stint on the CF there were mosquitos in one or two rooms we stayed in. Over the years, I've developed a more and more severe reaction to the bites of our European kind of mosquitos and I'm interested in exploring natural repellents. So that's related to the CF actually. <sarc on> Of course, I could let myself get bitten every night because kids are still starving in Africa. <sarc off>

Bringing up the First World problem argument is a bit like throwing a stink bomb into a conversation.
 
Last edited:
#75
Chinacat, thank you for your questions. I have been slightly uncomfortable with having sent a reply on another thread, and your suggestion of a wink emoji could have helped, but in fact, this is about a number of things, including humour. Experience has taught me that it does not always translate very well. In addition, when we take time to remember that there are people of many first languages communicating here via English, it is amazing we have so few misunderstandings. Thanks for the reminder! And I don’t need to add an emoji, I am serious!
Thank you, kirkie ...
It is amazing that we have so few misunderstandings on here, considering the many different first languages of those who communicate on here ... in a language that has so many nuances and potential ‘traps’ for non-native speakers ... not to mention those of us who are native speakers!!
 
#76
I thought I might find a more fun definition but failed due to the shortage of time. So here's from Wiki:
  • Fallacy of relative privation (also known as "appeal to worse problems" or "not as bad as") – dismissing an argument or complaint due to the existence of more important problems in the world, regardless of whether those problems bear relevance to the initial argument. First World problems are a subset of this fallacy.
This thread had (and still has) some interesting info. For example, I didn't even know that people can be allergic to smells in a physical way. I applaud those who don't get tired of trying to impart knowledge about the difference between insect repellent and insect killing agents. Or even the difference between various kind of insects and how they react or don't react to different agents. During our last stint on the CF there were mosquitos in one or two rooms we stayed in. Over the years, I've developed a more and more severe reaction to the bites of our European kind of mosquitos and I'm interested in exploring natural repellents. So that's related to the CF actually. <sarc on> Of course, I could let myself get bitten every night because kids are starving in Africa. <sarc off>

Bringing up the First World problem argument is like a bit like throwing a stink bomb into a conversation.
Ah ... every time I typed ‘First world’, ‘Third world’, I wanted to scream!! ...

I thought of not using the terms but resorted to that used in the post to which I was replying .. I used it as a form of shorthand ...

@kirkie ... An example of the ‘misuse’ of my native tongue!
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#77
I thought of not using the terms but resorted to that used in the post to which I was replying .. I used it as a form of shorthand
My comment refers to the term and context when it was brought into the conversation for the first time, too ... the forum thread structure doesn't allow any "branches" and it's therefore sometimes not clear what belongs to what. :)
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
#78
No one likes the guy whose cologne arrives fifteen seconds before he does. No one likes lavender oil except the person; who uses it. It is not effective for anything. Be courteous and do not inflict your fragrances on the rest of us. Ditto your taste in music, even if it is Flight of the Valkyries over and over at dawn...
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Ch. d'Arles: Oloron Ste Marie to Aragones; Frances (2016); V.d.l.P.; Sanabres (2017)
#82
Thinking Ruitelan or Ventosa?;)
At Emaus albergue in Burgos, where I served as a hospitalera last September, soft music is played in the dormitories at 7 am as a sign that the guests may leave their beds and that breakfast will be served shortly. All the responses which I received were positive, as getting up before then was discouraged, so a good night's sleep could be had by all. Except for the hospitalera, who has been preparing breakfast. House rules are told to pilgrims when they arrive, so they know what to expect. I never had to deal with someone spraying essential oils all over a dormitory, but I would certainly discourage it, as the rooms are small and everyone must breathe. Perhaps sensible house rules told to all as they arrive could discourage some of the more thoughtless and selfish behaviour and remind people that they are in a shared space.
 
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mariam88 Bed Bugs 79

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