Suffering, sacrifice, and the Camino

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Several threads have recently contained spirited debate on whether one must suffer to be on a pilgrimage. No one asked if reading my forum posts count as suffering , and I thank you all for that. I’ve been digging holes all morning, thinking about this question. I personally think that sacrifice, not suffering, is the proper approach to pilgrimage, and prefer to believe language differences account for some of the debate. Or not, I’m often and dramatically wrong, but here is my take for what little it’s worth. I fully expect debate, and welcome correction and addition .

I personally do not believe in a Creator/Source who takes pleasure in suffering; sacrifice, on the other hand, can be a powerful tool for growth. I can envision a God who takes pleasure in our growth (full disclosure, my relationship with Him is, shall we say, complicated). Sacrifice is a giving up of something of worth, freely. I think all of us can think of many ways to sacrifice, but I am writing this so will go first, if you all don’t mind, in starting a list (which, disclaimer, is lifted and assembled from the postings of many):

Carry your pack with good humor and cheer, and without comment on those who don’t. Give up something you like (tobacco, alcohol, ice cream—before or during the Camino) to pay for your pack shuttle service, or the latest hi-tech gear, or whatever--even if you can pay for it without sacrifice. Give up treats and donate that money to the poor of the towns where you stop. Bear with good grace those who snore, or stay up late, or rise early. Share your food. Make the effort to speak in another’s language, even if you’re tired. Invite lone pilgrims to join your meal or your walk. Share your water. If another asks, let them open or close the window in the albergue. Share the electrical outlet. Offer to help carry the belongings of a struggling pilgrim. Buy a roll of toilet paper and leave it in a restroom. If you are an extrovert, find the joy in being alone. If you are an introvert, rejoice in the company around you. Keep your mileage and your pack weight to yourself. Thank God that each has a mode of travel that fits their needs, be it walking, bike, bus, horse, donkey, or wheelchair—even when it’s not your choice. Pick up trash. Be generous with donitivos. Offer to help cook, clean, or do something positive at the albergue. Say thank-you, even if someone can’t give you what you want. Support the local economy a little more than you have to. Share knowledge humbly. Take a moment to write a thank-you note to the hotel staff, or albergue hospitaleros. Post reviews after positives experiences, not just negative, even if WiFi is a pain. Walk a little further if you have to, without assigning blame. Let another pilgrim vent. Focus on the joy of those partying along the walk, and not the noise. Let the other person have their say, even if you disagree. Offer to take the least desirable bed. Share your foot care supplies. Let someone else have the last glass of wine. Allow quiet and solitude to those who seek it, even if you feel like shouting. Thank the Creator for the sun, rain, snow, wind, mud, tarmac, and hills. But not the bedbugs, even God would not expect that.

I’ll be the first to admit that I had a lot of trouble with some of the things on this list—I am still very much a work in progress. But I hope it’s the effort that counts.

 

[domigee]

What a lovely post I must say, this has been mostly my experience of walking the Camino... or what I remember of it anyway

Edited as I re-read: Nooooo, I draw the line at closing the windows!

 

[xymmot]

Its not the suffering, but the sacrific you make; it your Camino, your time, your steps. You need not suffer to do the Camino, just say no! This is my third Camino coming up Sept 26th, 2016 True to say another adventure. Everyone I have met, had conversation with and party. I have not met again. So the people you meet along the way. Carpe diem. And just remember that everyday you wake up to live another day, is a gift from God. Seize the day

cheers tommy x

 

[trecile]

Several threads have recently contained spirited debate on whether one must suffer to be on a pilgrimage. No one asked if reading my forum posts count as suffering , and I thank you all for that. I’ve been digging holes all morning, thinking about this question. I personally think that sacrifice, not suffering, is the proper approach to pilgrimage, and prefer to believe language differences account for some of the debate. Or not, I’m often and dramatically wrong, but here is my take for what little it’s worth. I fully expect debate, and welcome correction and addition .

I personally do not believe in a Creator/Source who takes pleasure in suffering; sacrifice, on the other hand, can be a powerful tool for growth. I can envision a God who takes pleasure in our growth (full disclosure, my relationship with Him is, shall we say, complicated). Sacrifice is a giving up of something of worth, freely. I think all of us can think of many ways to sacrifice, but I am writing this so will go first, if you all don’t mind, in starting a list (which, disclaimer, is lifted and assembled from the postings of many):

Carry your pack with good humor and cheer, and without comment on those who don’t. Give up something you like (tobacco, alcohol, ice cream—before or during the Camino) to pay for your pack shuttle service, or the latest hi-tech gear, or whatever--even if you can pay for it without sacrifice. Give up treats and donate that money to the poor of the towns where you stop. Bear with good grace those who snore, or stay up late, or rise early. Share your food. Make the effort to speak in another’s language, even if you’re tired. Invite lone pilgrims to join your meal or your walk. Share your water. If another asks, let them open or close the window in the albergue. Share the electrical outlet. Offer to help carry the belongings of a struggling pilgrim. Buy a roll of toilet paper and leave it in a restroom. If you are an extrovert, find the joy in being alone. If you are an introvert, rejoice in the company around you. Keep your mileage and your pack weight to yourself. Thank God that each has a mode of travel that fits their needs, be it walking, bike, bus, horse, donkey, or wheelchair—even when it’s not your choice. Pick up trash. Be generous with donitivos. Offer to help cook, clean, or do something positive at the albergue. Say thank-you, even if someone can’t give you what you want. Support the local economy a little more than you have to. Share knowledge humbly. Take a moment to write a thank-you note to the hotel staff, or albergue hospitaleros. Post reviews after positives experiences, not just negative, even if WiFi is a pain. Walk a little further if you have to, without assigning blame. Let another pilgrim vent. Focus on the joy of those partying along the walk, and not the noise. Let the other person have their say, even if you disagree. Offer to take the least desirable bed. Share your foot care supplies. Let someone else have the last glass of wine. Allow quiet and solitude to those who seek it, even if you feel like shouting. Thank the Creator for the sun, rain, snow, wind, mud, tarmac, and hills. But not the bedbugs, even God would not expect that.

I’ll be the first to admit that I had a lot of trouble with some of the things on this list—I am still very much a work in progress. But I hope it’s the effort that counts.

Very well said!!!!

 

[trecile]

What a lovely post I must say, this has been mostly my experience of walking the Camino... or what I remember of it anyway

Edited as I re-read: Nooooo, I draw the line at closing the windows!

I so totally agree with the windows. It was a very hot day when I was at Terradillos de Templarios, and I stayed out in the garden of the albergue fairly late until it cooled down. Imagine my distress to enter a sleeping room that us hot and stuffy because someone decided to close the window. I opened it, even though I had to step over a backpack to do it.

 

[kerrychick]

I too am starting my 4 camino on the 28th sep.
I am so excited i am wishing the hours away till i get on the plane ,for all the reasons you have stated and more I am a camino addict .

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Sorry @domigee and @trecile...I remember snow (snow!!) blowing through open windows. I wished for closed ones even as I smiled when they were opened.in puente la reina a French pilgrim and German pilgrim got into a shouting match, each in his own tongue (though one could guess by gestures) louder and louder, with repeated opening and closing, with other French and German pilgrims joining in...alas, the German won. Or err, the French pilgrim sacrificed.
That's why my dream albergue separates pilgrims into windows open, windows closed.

 

[xymmot]

Sorry @domigee and @trecile...I remember snow (snow!!) blowing through open windows. I wished for closed ones even as I smiled when they were opened.in puente la reina a French pilgrim and German pilgrim got into a shouting match, each in his own tongue (though one could guess by gestures) louder and louder, with repeated opening and closing, with other French and German pilgrims joining in...alas, the German won. Or err, the French pilgrim sacrificed.
That's why my dream albergue separates pilgrims into windows open, windows closed.

At the same time, they should separate the snoring pilgrims from the non-snoring pilgrims. You know who you are

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

At the same time, they should separate the snoring pilgrims from the non-snoring pilgrims. You know who you are

Well, yes But if we have no window debates or snoring, I may be forced to sacrifice in some more difficult fashion. I may need to rethink my dream albergue

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Suffering is an inevitable part of life. You can "just say no" all you want, but the blister on your toe won't hear you. Your granny will die, your lover will break your heart, the sky will rain on you, someone will steal your socks off the clothesline. Nobody gets a free pass.
Nobody likes to suffer. A few odd people go out looking for it, but there is a balance between masochism and deluding yourself.
Anyone who's studied Buddhism, or Christianity, knows that resisting suffering, pretending like it doesn't happen, or avoiding it at all costs is a fruitless delusion. Suffering is not all bad. If we don't do some, we remain children. We never learn to tolerate open or closed windows or shouting French people or smelly toilets or overwhelming loss. Irritation, suffering, pain -- they're gonna happen to you, and they abound on the Camino.
Dealing with them -- experiencing suffering -- is part of the whole scene. Overcoming, with help from our friends or our God, is what grace is about. Suffering brings endurance, and endurance, victory.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

Some posts on this thread brought to mind a Yevgeny Yevtushenko poem. Putting aside the atheism, it has stayed with me for decades and has a relevance, in parts, to the discussion here.

LIES
Lying to the young is wrong.
proving to them that lies are true is wrong.
Telling them that God's in his heaven
and all's well with the world is wrong.
They know what you mean.
They are people too.
Tell them the difficulties can't be counted
and let them see
not only what will be
but see with clarity these present times.
say obstacles exist they must encounter
Sorrow comes
Hardship happens.
The hell with it,
Who never knew the price of happiness
Will not be happy.
Forgive no error you recognize,
it will repeat itself a hundredfold
and afterwards our pupils
will not forgive in us what we forgave.

1952

 

[simply B]

@Smallest_Sparrow -

How I wish that I could like this post about 1,000 times!

I have only a little bit more that I could add (and maybe will later) but you have captured the essence of the Camino that I found myself on.

Thank you!

B

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

At the same time, they should separate the snoring pilgrims from the non-snoring pilgrims. You know who you are

Marty does. He exiled himself to sleep outside the albergue. The cold and suffering and sacrifice was too much for him though and he moved back inside (but to the kitchen floor.) Thanks @Marty Seville.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

when you are ready, please add to the list @simply B
(and all the rest of you, too)

 

[C clearly]

This is not simply a question about the Camino. It goes to the question of whether "unearned suffering is redemptive" and thus has value.

I wouldn't say that I am sacrificing anything when I walk the Camino, nor do I suffer in any significant way!

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Suffering is an inevitable part of life. You can "just say no" all you want, but the blister on your toe won't hear you. Your granny will die, your lover will break your heart, the sky will rain on you, someone will steal your socks off the clothesline. Nobody gets a free pass.
Nobody likes to suffer. A few odd people go out looking for it, but there is a balance between masochism and deluding yourself.
Anyone who's studied Buddhism, or Christianity, knows that resisting suffering, pretending like it doesn't happen, or avoiding it at all costs is a fruitless delusion. Suffering is not all bad. If we don't do some, we remain children. We never learn to tolerate open or closed windows or shouting French people or smelly toilets or overwhelming loss. Irritation, suffering, pain -- they're gonna happen to you, and they abound on the Camino.
Dealing with them -- experiencing suffering -- is part of the whole scene. Overcoming, with help from our friends or our God, is what grace is about. Suffering brings endurance, and endurance, victory.

You are right, @Rebekah Scott, and excellent point, suffering can lead to growth. edit: I apologize for confusion from my post end edit. In my mind, for the little it's worth, the Creator does not ask me to suffer on the Camino, He asks for sacrifice. at any rate, I think it is sacrifice, not suffering, requested by the Church. Those two things are very different, in my mind. Otherwise, we should stop advising on the best boots or packs, and instead carry our belongings in front of us and walk barefoot. No wine, no music, and only the minimum bread and water. I don't advocate running from suffering, I only question it as a goal or requirement for pilgrims (as some threads implied or stated). Some suffer a lot on the Camino, some a little, maybe the rare one none at all, and how we react to the suffering shows how we are growing. You can't control open or closed windows, who snores, or who uses a taxi, but you can control how you react to it. The point of my post was not to declare there is no suffering, but to say, IMHO and perhaps only applied to me, that God does not insist upon nor even desire our suffering on the way to Santiago, just our sacrifice. I suspect He would be a lot happier with less of the former and more of the latter. I wonder if we might give-up suffering as the litmus of a 'true pilgrim'-- whatever the heck that is-- and try using sacrifice instead. We can joke about windows, and snoring, and all the rest, but I chose to sacrifice having my choice regarding the windows, the noise, etc. Made it a bit easier for me, and seemed to me the right thing to do. Sacrificing my desire to walk alone, when someone wanted to walk with me, was much more difficult, but for me, that sacrifice to decide to give up what I wanted for another's needs, rather than suffering through company, made more sense to me. I could also have decided to walk by myself (no sacrifice and no suffering). The beauty of free will.

In summary, I agree, suffering can lead to growth. I just don't see it as a requirement for pilgrims.

edit: I most certainly did not walk to Santiago as a saint...one might say God and I are 'on a break'. There are things on my list that were a real struggle, and obviously my list includes some things that are easy for me and not for others, and vice versa. It's not a list that we all must do, or do all or any of the items, just a starting place I hope for people to identify small areas of sacrifice, rather than seeking suffering.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

This is not simply a question about the Camino. It goes to the question of whether "unearned suffering is redemptive" and thus has value.

I wouldn't say that I am sacrificing anything when I walk the Camino, nor do I suffer in any significant way!

excellent question. for my belief alone, I see the power of accepting and offering up suffering, but draw the line at purposely causing it.

 

[Kitsambler]

My personal perspective is that pilgrimage is about entering into a new relationship with the Divine, and also with oneself. Making oneself vulnerable is the method here. Sometimes that involves suffering, but suffering is only a tool, not an end in itself. (I do realize others have a different frame of reference. Just wanted to point out that suffering as an end is not a universal perspective.)

 

[smj6]

...how we react to the suffering shows how we are growing. You can't control open or closed windows, who snores, or who uses a taxi, but you can control how you react to it...

I've always tried to teach my children that whilst they cannot be in control of how others act, they can be in control of how they react to the actions of others (I also try to follow this myself - not always easy!).
Buen Camino Suzanne

 

[wayfarer]

I am a firm believer in "giving" rather than "giving up" I believe giving up such things as alcohol, cigarettes etc as a sacrifice is a waste unless you then use what you save to give to those in need, otherwise it is a selfish act IMO. Sorry if I have drifted off topic.

 

[Blade]

Wow. As someone who tends to brag about his achievements and lacks tolerance of others this comes as a big wake-up call. Merci Petit Piaf.

 

[sillydoll]

In the middle ages people went on pilgrimages to venerate the remains of saints or visit holy objects and places. Some went on pilgrimage to escape their dreary lives and have a nice long holiday in a sunnier climate!

In the 11th and 12 centuries indulgences were introduced to remit the amount of penance and later, time spent in Purgatory. The time earned could be a few months or a thousand years. For instance, visits to Saint James in Santiago offered generous indulgences. A 13thc catalogue, echoed in 1456 by the British pilgrim William Wey, records these indulgences:

• for making the trip to Compostela: remission of a third of one’s sins; if you die on the road, total remission.
  
• for taking part in each religious procession in the city of Compostela: 40 days’ indulgences;
  
• if the procession is led by a mitered bishop, 200 days more.
  
• if the procession is that of July 24th: 600 days
  
• hearing mass at which an archbishop, dean or cardinal officiates: 200 days
  
• hearing mass at the Monte de Gozo: 100 days.

At the Second Vatican Council (1962 - 1969) sweeping changes were made to the regulations for Indulgences and they no longer include a period of time. Indulgences remit punishment only for already forgiven sins. Through sacramental confession you obtain forgiveness, but you aren't let off the hook as far as punishment goes. For instance, if you told your children not to play ball in the front yard but they do and hit a ball through the bedroom window, you forgive them, but you can still punish them by making them pay for the window.

In the Middle Ages, long journeys on foot or horseback to shrines far from one’s home were sufficient sacrifice, suffering and penance to qualify for an indulgence. One did not have to wear a hair shirt, self flagellate, or carry heavy objects. (Perhaps that is why we never see pictures, sculptures, statues, stained glass windows of pilgrims carrying backpacks!) Penitential pilgrims, those forced to undertake long pilgrimages to pay for a crime or misdoing, might have an extra burden such as the murder weapon, like an axe or a sword, chained to their backs.

Today, many pilgrims - Catholic or non - are of the opinion that part of a pilgrim’s ‘duty’ is to carry a heavy backpack. To some, the backpack might represent the ‘burden of sin’ carried by penitential pilgrims. This is a modern concept and I doubt that any self-respecting, mendicant or penitential pilgrim would have felt comfortable displaying so many belongings or worldly goods whilst on a pilgrimage. Wealthy pilgrims, ecclesiastic groups, knights and royalty could afford to have their belongings carried on the backs of horses or mules, or in carriages but no so the foot-slogging ordinary pilgrim to Canterbury, St Martin of Tours, Rome, Jerusalem or Compostela.

Besides the sacrifice of leaving home and family, and the suffering endured by walking for hundred of miles through foreign lands, pilgrimage was a joyous undertaking (read Canterbury Tales) with singing and celebrations. Pilgrims could walk alone but most joined groups for safety and there were caravans of pilgrims on the roads to Compostela. An article by Hermann Kellenbenze desribes 12th century pilgrims using the established 'postal and transport' companies to move safely from village to town. Saint Bona of Pisa was awarded the honour of official Compostela tour guide after leading 10 groups of pilgrims from her home town in Pisa during the 12th century. They sang songs on the road and when they arrived in Santiago. There is a wealth of resources of pilgrimage music and there is no mediaeval liturgical monument to the veneration of a single saint which can compare with the liturgy of St James found in the Codex Calixtinus.

I've often read pilgrims' disapproving comments about the lack of respect in the cathedral; noisy pilgrims taking photographs and walking about during mass. Remember, churches didn't have pews until the Protestant Reformation people either stood or knelt in the church - there were no pews. (This is still true in Orthodox churches in Russia and other eastern churches).

The Codex tells us that pilgrims from all over the world came together singing in the cathedral.
Chapter 17, book 1 of the Codex:
"It is a cause of joy and wonderment to behold the choirs of, pilgrims keeping vigil before the worshipful altar of St James: Teutons, Franks, Italians ... each in their own place ...; some playing on the cittern, others on the harp ... Here one can savour a great diversity of languages, of different voices in outlandish tongues; cantilenas in Teutonic, English, Greek-and languages of other different-tribes and races from every corner of the earth. Their voices carry every conceivable word and idiom."

So, pilgrimage might involve sacrifice and suffering but it should also be a time of joy and celebration. Divest yourself of intolerance towards other pilgrims (no matter how they chose to do the Camino) and judgmental thought and you might enjoy your Camino even more!

 

[movinmaggie]

I have a feeling that many have, are, and will do all that the OP describes. They just don' talk about it. I know.....I have met them.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Wow. As someone who tends to brag about his achievements and lacks tolerance of others this comes as a big wake-up call. Merci Petit Piaf.

You and me both one tiny sparrow step at a time

 

[Mark Lee]

What a lovely post I must say, this has been mostly my experience of walking the Camino... or what I remember of it anyway

Edited as I re-read: Nooooo, I draw the line at closing the windows!

Exactly.
Please don't keep the damn windows closed. It's 2016 and not 1416 and it was determined a long time ago that the night air is not dangerous to breathe.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

You are right, @Rebekah Scott...

the Creator does not ask me to suffer on the Camino, He asks for sacrifice. at any rate, I think it is sacrifice, not suffering, requested by the Church. Otherwise, we should stop advising on the best boots or packs, and instead carry our belongings in front of us and walk barefoot. ...I only question it as a goal or requirement for pilgrims (as some threads implied or stated)...
God does not insist upon nor even desire our suffering on the way to Santiago, just our sacrifice.
.

Wait, wait, I did not say that one must suffer on the Camino, let alone look for suffering, simply that the Cathedral does not want the Camino to become a pleasurable long walk holiday, as stated on the Pilgrim Office website, hence why it set minimal distances to be awarded a Compostela and not giving one to those who do not arrive by foot, horse or bicycle (having made no physical effort. Its rules, not mine).

Accepting the Camino comes with parts that are not pleasurable, or suffering (blisters, tendonitis, boredom) or sacrifice (dealing with the suffering rather than making it go away by jumping in a taxi to get us out of that uncomfortable position immediately) is part of the Camino and what the Cathedral expects before handing out a Compostela.

Because enduring suffering is sacrificing your comfort, no?

Why not take a day off to look after one's feet, or walk shorter days, even if it does mean letting your group of walking buddies go, not making it Santiago this year, or ever, staying in a hamlet without wifi. Surely there's an opportunity to grow in that.

And outside of faith, are we not passing up on a learning and growth opportunity the Camino offers when we run from some of its negative aspects (pain, boredom, industrial subburbs) when jumping in a taxi? Rebekha is spot on in her post. Even sitting for meditation can be painful, and resisting an itch uncomfortable, and yet those who practice know there are benefits to enduring and surpassing that.

On my first Camino I walked quite a bit with a young woman from Australia, Catholic, practicing, and beyond (not just Sunday mass but practicing in her daily life in her interactions with people, etc.). This was just after my mother died and I suppose we started about death. I am very much in favour of what is often referred to as "the right to die with dignity", or euthanasia, under certain circumstances, and this young woman explained that she wasn't because, based on her faith, by suffering when one is ill and dying, one is getting closer to Christ by sharing in what he experienced when he died. While I am still pro "right to die in dignity" I also learned and understood something in what she said to me. Facing suffering/sacrificing comfort is part of the human experience, and can be a source of growth.

And then there's our latest Saint, Mother Theresa. What did she used to say to the sick people in her care she could not help? (And no, I am not looking to open that can of worms, just giving another example of when suffering was seen as having a positive side).

Funny how the examples of sacrifices in other posts were about material goods and money... Is that all we have to sacrifice in this day and age?

 

[jo webber]

This has always been, for me, a wonderful piece of writing on suffering.

On Joy and Sorrow
Kahlil Gibran
Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.
And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.
And how else can it be?
The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.
Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven?
And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives?
When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.
When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.

Some of you say, "Joy is greater than sorrow," and others say, "Nay, sorrow is the greater."
But I say unto you, they are inseparable.
Together they come, and when one sits, alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed.

Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy.
Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced.
When the treasure-keeper lifts you to weigh his gold and his silver, needs must your joy or your sorrow rise or fall.

 

[C clearly]

Thanks for that fascinating post @sillydoll .

 

[Mark Lee]

Honestly, unless you are walking the Camino with some type of serious physical limitation(s), or medical condition you are not going to suffer or sacrifice very much, if any at all. Sure, you get sore muscles, joints, sunburn, or the occasional insect bite etc, but that's hardly suffering or sacrifice. More like just a byproduct of doing any type of continuous physical activity/exertion outdoors for several hours a day. I never truly suffered or sacrificed on any of the Caminos I walked. I always had a place to get a meal and a bed, and even on the hot or rainy days I knew that within a few hours I would be cleaned up, and sitting down for dinner or lunch. No way would I have created some type of artificial suffering. That would make no sense. That whole hair-shirt and self flagellation concept is bizarre and is best left in the middle-ages where it belongs.
As far as helping out fellow pilgrims or sharing with them, well that's not sacrifice. That's just something we should all do no matter what our beliefs, or lack thereof are and something we should do in everyday life, not just on the Camino.
Never saw my backpack as a burden, and that burden being part of walking the Camino. I just saw it as a thing to carry my stuff in while I walk. Saw no symbolism in it, and carried it instead of having it transported ahead simply because it's my pack. I brought, so I carry it. If someone likes to ship their's ahead, that's cool. Nothing wrong with that. I just prefer to carry mine because my stuff is in it.
Given a choice I'd walk the Camino every time without sore muscles and joints. In clear, cool weather with no rainy days (Rain at night is cool though. Love to hear the sound of it. Even its smell.). With a pack that weighs less than 5 kg's.

 

[Bradypus]

I walk every step of the way. I carry my rucksack all the time. It is not a meritorious act of suffering or sacrifice: it is just a personal choice. On the odd occasion when I realise I am being smug and self-righteous about it I give myself a metaphysical head-slap (a la "NCIS") and promise myself I'll stop being such a pain in the posterior. Until the next time...

 

[TaijiPilgrim]

Honestly, unless you are walking the Camino with some type of serious physical limitation(s), or medical condition you are not going to suffer or sacrifice very much, if any at all. Sure, you get sore muscles, joints, sunburn, or the occasional insect bite etc, but that's hardly suffering or sacrifice. More like just a byproduct of doing any type of continuous physical activity/exertion outdoors for several hours a day. I never truly suffered or sacrificed on any of the Caminos I walked. I always had a place to get a meal and a bed, and even on the hot or rainy days I knew that within a few hours I would be cleaned up, and sitting down for dinner or lunch. No way would I have created some type of artificial suffering. That would make no sense. That whole hair-shirt and self flagellation concept is bizarre and is best left in the middle-ages where it belongs.
As far as helping out fellow pilgrims or sharing with them, well that's not sacrifice. That's just something we should all do no matter what our beliefs, or lack thereof are and something we should do in everyday life, not just on the Camino.
Never saw my backpack as a burden, and that burden being part of walking the Camino. I just saw it as a thing to carry my stuff in while I walk. Saw no symbolism in it, and carried it instead of having it transported ahead simply because it's my pack. I brought, so I carry it. If someone likes to ship their's ahead, that's cool. Nothing wrong with that. I just prefer to carry mine because my stuff is in it.
Given a choice I'd walk the Camino every time without sore muscles and joints. In clear, cool weather with no rainy days (Rain at night is cool though. Love to hear the sound of it. Even its smell.). With a pack that weighs less than 5 kg's.

I actually had a conversation with a pilgrim about what he called suffering on the camino, and I disagreed with his definition of suffering. This post is more about the definition of the word, and, like Mark Lee, I think many of the examples used do not fit my understanding of the word "suffering" --- I would call them examples of discomfort, irritation, inconvenience, hardship, and minor pain, etc. Suffering, to me, is the what pilgrims who walk with chronic illness or disabilities or mental and emotional anguish endure. It is what people who sleep unsheltered from rain, snow, cold endure; it is what those who are starving daily endure; it is what those who watch helplessly, as their loved ones around them are injured, killed, or dying from illness endure; and it is what those loved ones endure themselves.
When someone chooses to follow the camino, he or she accepts or should learn to accept the experiences - both positive and negative- of the journey. Some will find it more difficult than others, but most will not truly suffer by my definition. Some will find the good and bad times balance out. I wrote this somewhere on my camino in 2011:

A pilgrimage
Is not all pain and penance…
You can be happy

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Let's then offer a difference word to express the opposite of "pleasurable holiday".

Funny how the pains and aches we experience on the Camino are considered by some so benign, and yet the taxi, bus and bag transport are striving ;0).

 

[Anemone del Camino]

While having a drink at the end of the day in Cee, I was overhearing a conversation between a group of South American "senoras bien". They were comenting on how they would skip dinner thant night to watch their weight. And in the next sentence talking about having to get back to their pensio to get theur luggage ready for transport the next day.

Euh? Skip dinner on the Camion, not to gain weight? Wouldn't it jave made more sense to carry their packs and eat properly? They prefered to go hungry and tax their body rather than thr discomfort of carry their stuff...

 

[KinkyOne]

Its not the suffering, but the sacrific you make; it your Camino, your time, your steps. You need not suffer to do the Camino, just say no! This is my third Camino coming up Sept 26th, 2016 True to say another adventure. Everyone I have met, had conversation with and party. I have not met again. So the people you meet along the way. Carpe diem. And just remember that everyday you wake up to live another day, is a gift from God. Seize the day

cheers tommy xView attachment 29265View attachment 29265View attachment 29265View attachment 29265View attachment 29265View attachment 29265

Carpe diem, Tommy, I hope you had a nice start

 

[KinkyOne]

I too am starting my 4 camino on the 28th sep.
I am so excited i am wishing the hours away till i get on the plane ,for all the reasons you have stated and more I am a camino addict .

That's tomorrow
Enjoy your Camino and Ultreia!

 

[Jas Asyiken]

Change is inevitable and suffering is optional.

One inly suffers if there is a tension between what you want and what is. We all have our ideals which never raise problems but when the same is expected/imposed - resistance causes the problem.

Camino just like life, comes with its duality. The good and bad. Pleasure and plain. Happy and sad. Comfort and challenged. If we can learn to surrender whatever is paved on our path and keep faith that it's all for good - then we won't face so much suffering even in times of struggles. If we refuse to surrender and assumes that we can control all outcomes pavesd on our paths, we will struggle with tension. We will either blame God or man for the downs rather than to surrender that even the downsides is what we need and good for us.

This mindset took me through the Camino gracefully not too long ago.

 

[Penny Kingma]

I dreamt of doing the Camino for over 30 years. Finally this summer my dream came true. I made the decision after being diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in June of 2015 and a week later skin cancer. The skin cancer was removed four times finally in December requiring two topical Cemo treatments. My M.S. Causes constant pain in my body ...my feet being the worst. I take cannibus oil at home but legalities don't allow for travelling with it. So I walked with only Ibuprofen. I give you all of this background because I was repeatedly called a cheater by a few pilgrims. I walked every step carrying my pack. I planned to stay in Albergues the entire time, but sleep just eluded me. Pain at night is a constant even at home. Spasms and nerve pain. I finally started staying in private rooms. It didn't stop the pain but at least if I'd finally fall asleep I wouldn't be awakened by others. Pain makes for shallow sleep. I can tell you these few pilgrims were relentless in there insistence, even when I'd explain. I finally broke away from them completely as I'd be in tears in the night out of frustration. I would have loved the atmosphere of the pilgrim cooked dinners etc, but would be forced from my pain to rest at walks end in bed. I truly loved my experience...it was better than I could have imagined. I came home with many more memories of wonderful pilgrims than the few judgemental. I'm proud of myself for making the decision to ask them to move on. I guess what I'm trying to say is caution of judgments made. Everyone has their own baggage they carry. And if you run into negativity...move on. Don't let others ruin your dream.
I pray that I will have the opportunity and strength to return again.
Buen Camino

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

So I walked with only Ibuprofen. I give you all of this background because I was repeatedly called a cheater by a few pilgrims.

those were not pilgrims, IMHO.

 

[domigee]

I'm proud of myself for making the decision to ask them to move on. I guess what I'm trying to say is caution of judgments made. Everyone has their own baggage they carry. And if you run into negativity...move on. Don't let others ruin your dream.
I pray that I will have the opportunity and strength to return again.
Buen Camino

Very moving post, Penny, food for thought indeed.
Congratulations on your Camino and all the very best, who knows, for future ones?

 

[Penny Kingma]

those were not pilgrims, IMHO.

Well there's an interesting end to this story.
When I arrived in Santiago 37 days after leaving St Jean ... the main cheat calling pilgrim was standing there in tears. I never showed them I was angry in fact I bought them dinner on our last day ...explaining that I needed to go at my pace and they should move on. I prayed as I walked that they would travel safe. I felt they had there own battles to resolve. I'd run into them after that on the trail...but didn't walk together again. When that pilgrim stood there in the shadows of the cathedral...I knew that miracles do happen. He said he'd arrived two days before and waited to see if I'd arrive. No apologies were needed ...we embraced and cried...I knew then he'd changed and healed as well.
Always show a kind heart and kindness will return

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I cannot believe anyone would have the audacity to call anyone a cheater to their face, even if they were taking the easy route, by which ever means out of pure lazyness or convinience.

A good excuse to slow down, take a day off, have a shorter day and let them walk on on their own.

Congratulations on your persevearance and great heart.

 

[C clearly]

I was repeatedly called a cheater by a few pilgrims.

When that pilgrim stood there in the shadows of the cathedral...I knew that miracles do happen. He said he'd arrived two days before and waited to see if I'd arrive. No apologies were needed ...we embraced and cried...I knew then he'd changed and healed as well.
Always show a kind heart and kindness will return

I'm so glad to see this update!

Before my first camino, I had done enough reading about the experience that I had some respect for the variety of approaches and motivations and attitudes. I was walking with a person who really had very little idea of this. Early on, she challenged a young fellow about his bicycle, intending to be joking. I was mortified and scolded her for it. To her credit, she got the message right away and admitted she was wrong.

People take some time to get over preconceived notions, and I think your experience shows that it can be done!

 

[SYates]

... I give you all of this background because I was repeatedly called a cheater by a few pilgrims. I walked every step carrying my pack. I planned to stay in Albergues the entire time, but sleep just eluded me. Pain at night is a constant even at home. Spasms and nerve pain. I finally started staying in private rooms. ...

There is no cheating on the Camino, really there isn't! You walked the Camino as you could walk it and there really isn't anything else to say apart of BUEN CAMINO DE LA VIDA and WELL DONE! SY

 

[Jas Asyiken]

It's useful to understand the human nature in order not to be disturbed in whatever we choose to do. First of all, if someone feels great about themselves - naturally they feel so good that they like others to feel good too so they can have sheer fun together. So, these are the people who will make you feel awesome especially when you don't feel it.

There are also those who feels badly about themselves and they struggle to keep up with others who feels good. As misery likes company, these people tends to look at the bad side of others just so that they don't feel too badly about themselves. Yes, some would go to the extent of ruining it for others too. But all that is because they need others to be worse so that they don't feel so shitty about themselves. We have a choice not to be what they want us to be, right?

When someone has a problem with how we choose to do things, the source of the problem is not even with us. They want us to change our ways. That caused the problem. If they don't "want" us to change...there is no problem. So they are the ones who needs to change and give up their unreasonable "wants" rather than to expect the world to change to please their whims and fancies.

Just be who you want to be and be the best version you can. That's all it matters. If we want them to stop judging us, then we have a problem to "want" that. Give it up. Just be... And don't forget to have fun while at it. Life is too precious to waste it on negative people

 

[Older Guy]

Not much I can add to all the wonderful comments. However, for me, a pilgrimage is not about suffering, it is not about sacrifice, it is not about vulnerability.

It is about commitment, opening your heart and mind, and about a temporary change in your point of reference (that may or may not become permanent). It was achieving a "balance" in your life.

When the Alburges were full, I spent a little more money on a Hostel. That was neither sacrifice nor suffering. When I was in pain I rested, slept in latter the next morning, had another glass of wine, or had a massage. I tried to go to a mass at each major cathedral and listen and pray. I gave thanks for my blessings and prayed that I would be able to do God's work when I returned from my pilgrimage to make this a better world.

At dinners, I would talk to my neighbors and raise a glass wine to toast the next table a "Buen Camino." That would usually start a conversation and as often as not they would ask me to pull our tables together. Sometimes I would buy a bottle of wine for the "new" table. As often as not, I would ask why they decided to do a Camino or ask how the Camino had called them.

The Camino called me over a number of years. I had heard of it years ago. On a trip to Pamplona my wife and I heard about all the pilgrimage routes going through and around the city. At the time I didn't realize it was the CF.

On a trip to Porto, my wife and I (while I was recovering from an Achilles tendon surgery in a walking cast) took a bus to Santiago, and on the bus ride back, I was amazed at the stories of the Pilgrims and their joy. We also enjoyed the feeling of Santiago. Then another year we were in Arles France we were staying at a hotel. I walked around the block and saw a Camino shell on the side of building. Then we went to SJPP and found the feel of that town to be infectious.

The two final straws were that the year before I did my bicycle Camino, I was set to do a 205 mile bike ride (the Seattle to Portland) with my oldest son, but he couldn't make it and so there I was at the starting line of a 2 day ride with no friends or family. I proved to myself that I could do things on "my own" in the company of others doing the same. Finally, the Pope declared most of 2016 as a Holy Year of Mercy. That was the final straw in my being called by the Camino.

I think a pilgrimage is as much about what calls you, your commitment to the pilgrimage (training, planning, dreaming, etc.) and how you approach the experience of the balance you seek, rather than suffering, sacrifice or vulnerability.

 

[kandksmom*1]

The Camino is going to be a challenge for me. Thus, I'll walk my first camino from Tui to SDC. Without going into details, I have some major medical and physiological issues that will, most likely, cause suffering. If you can call it a sacrifice, I want to take this trip without calling attention to these issues. I will have to make some adjustments as to how I experience the Camino, but I want to accept it and allow others to express what they think without my trying to explain or justify my choices.

 

[jmcarp]

This is not in response to any particular post made in this thread, it's just an observation/opinion...
First, suffering and sacrifice to separate things. Many sacrifice their time, their finances, an opportunity to something else, etc, in order to make the Camino. That's a conscious decision or action on their part. Suffering, on the other hand, is not something that most of us choose to endure. Yes, there are those who may have physical conditions in which they know they'll be suffering pain and discomfort as a result. Doing the Camino under such conditions is therefore a decision to sacrifice comfort or well-being in order to accomplish the goal of walking the Camino. However, there are those who do walk under those conditions as an offering to God, and I applaud them for doing so. Without getting too far into religion or theology, I'll just say that I don't think that God expects such offerings from anyone, but I'm sure he accepts them for the gift that lies in the heart of the giver and that the giver will somehow be blessed for doing so.

Suffering caused by injuries or illness while on the Camino is a different thing. When this occurs, there are several questions that have to be answered by the afflicted person, and the correct answer depends on that person's reason for walking the Camino. For example, is that person a real pilgrim in the religious sense? If so, that person may have a theological reason to continue while suffering physical or emotional pain that justifies--in the realm of their beliefs--continuing on the journey and offering their pain or whatever to God. If, however, the person is not a pilgrim in the traditional religious sense, perhaps the decision to carry on should be based on whether or not the cause of the suffering will be in the long run detrimental to that person's health. Or is it just a desire to gut it out to prove how tough they are, or are they letting external factors like "I've sacrificed a lot of time and money to make this trip, and by golly I'm not going let this darn broken leg keep me from finishing it." I would urge anyone proceeding under such conditions to think twice whether those are valid reasons to endure the suffering that it will cause.

I know that this only scratches the shallow surface of the topic, but I hope that it will help clarify what suffering and sacrifice really mean--especially in this context.

Jim