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Swinging of the botafumeiro

piogaw

Veteran Member
Time of past OR future Camino
Camino frances (05/06 2012) sjpdp-sdc; vdlp/camino sanabrea (02/03 2013) sevilla-sdc; hospitalero sdc june 2013, august-september 2013; caminho portugues (03 2014) lisboa-sdc
I know many peregrinos are disappointed when the pilgrim mass does not include the swinging of the botafumeiro. This all depends on whether it is one of the holy days or whether a group paid for it for the ceremony.

However it was announced recently that every friday mass at 19:30 hour (7:30 pm) the evening mass will include the botafumeiro ceremony. To avoid being disappointed, try to get there a little bit early and to get seats on the sides of the cathedral.

Buen camino and god bless.
 
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Thanks fr sharing this information--I was hoping to see the botafumeiro
 
This is such an unforgettable experience. I was fortunate to see after 2 of my 3 walks. Viewing from the side steps is something special as one is surrounded by other walkers. Thank you for letting us know the good news.
 
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I am not a peregrino due to infirmity. I have been in the cathedral in SDC on 6 days. Twice in 2011 and 4 times in 2012, all in september.
the botafumeiro was in action all 6 times.
I wonder if I was extraordinarily lucky or if this spectacular takes place more often than some of you seem to think
 
I know many peregrinos are disappointed when the pilgrim mass does not include the swinging of the botafumeiro. This all depends on whether it is one of the holy days or whether a group paid for it for the ceremony.

However it was announced recently that every friday mass at 19:30 hour (7:30 pm) the evening mass will include the botafumeiro ceremony. To avoid being disappointed, try to get there a little bit early and to get seats on the sides of the cathedral.

Buen camino and god bless.

I finished the Camino on Sunday, October 6, 2013. We made it a point to arrive early for the noon mass on that date to see the Botafumeiro swinging and were terribly disappointed when it did not happen. On the following Monday, after returning from Finisterre and Muxia (we rented a car), we tried again the evening mass at 7:30pm and it took place! A ceremony not to miss for any peregrino.
I took a video-clip, see youtube.com/watch?v=UecMPnlgNiw


A salut to all the compañeros I had the privilege to encounter,
Pierre aka Don Pedro
 
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Thanks for the info Piowag.

I´ve walked 3 Caminos and was very fortunate to see it swung on all 3 occasions. All 3 were at the Peregrino´s mass.

On my next Camino will try to see if it swings at the 7:30pm mass as well.

Buen Camino!
 
I finished the Camino on Sunday, October 6, 2013. We made it a point to arrive early for the noon mass on that date to see the Botafumeiro swinging and were terribly disappointed when it did not happen. On the following Monday, after returning from Finisterre and Muxia (we rented a car), we tried again the evening mass at 7:30pm and it took place! A ceremony not to miss for any peregrino.
I took a video-clip, see youtube.com/watch?v=UecMPnlgNiw


A salut to all the compañeros I had the privilege to encounter,
Pierre aka Don Pedro

Am rather confused as there has been a team of hi-vis jacketed people circling around and stopped photos being taken, but at the same time they allowed certain people to stand and move around at the back and these people were free to take pictures and videos with their companions. What is the story here with the policing of a place of prayer?
 
Am rather confused as there has been a team of hi-vis jacketed people circling around and stopped photos being taken, but at the same time they allowed certain people to stand and move around at the back and these people were free to take pictures and videos with their companions. What is the story here with the policing of a place of prayer?
We completed our Camino on 25 Sept and saw it swing twice while we were in Santiago between then and 29 Sept -- once at the 19:30 Mass on Friday and again at the 11:00 Mass on Sunday. It's true that photos and videos are not allowed during the Mass, and that rule is enforced by the Cathedral security officers. However, once the botafumeiro ceremony started, probably 85-90% of the people in the church pulled out cameras and started taking either still photos or videos of the entire five minutes or so of the swinging sequence. I did not see the security people ask anyone to stop. This is not to say that it is either OK or not OK, but apparently the security officers realize that it is impossible to enforce that rule during the swinging of the butafumeiro.
 
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A mass is a religious ceremony and while a mass is going on people should respect it whether they are Catholic as is in this case or not and not take photographs or go sightseeing around the cathedral, etc. Once the mass has ended the botafumiero is swung. The swinging of the botafumiero is not part of the mass hence people are allowed to take their photos and no one will tell you to stop.

Buen Camino!
 
A mass is a religious ceremony and while a mass is going on people should respect it whether they are Catholic as is in this case or not and not take photographs or go sightseeing around the cathedral, etc. Once the mass has ended the botafumiero is swung. The swinging of the botafumiero is not part of the mass hence people are allowed to take their photos and no one will tell you to stop.

Buen Camino!

hello mendiwalker,

as far as i know taking photos with the electronic flash during the mass and the botafumeiro is not allowed.

however i am not sure whether it is alright to take photos without the use of the flash. i think johnnie walker might be able to clarify what is permitted or what is not.
 
hello mendiwalker,

as far as i know taking photos with the electronic flash during the mass and the botafumeiro is not allowed.

however i am not sure whether it is alright to take photos without the use of the flash. i think johnnie walker might be able to clarify what is permitted or what is not.


Hello Piogaw

Of course taking pictures during mass is not allowed but during the swinging of the botafumiero it is as it is not part of the mass.

Buen Camino!
 
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Hello Piogaw

Of course taking pictures during mass is not allowed but during the swinging of the botafumiero it is as it is not part of the mass.

Buen Camino!

i was invited recently to attend mass at the front of the altar (inside the rope off area). i was asked not to take photos by the supervisory staff in the cathedral during the botafumeiro ceremony. this is why i suggest johnnie walker might be able to clarify the situation.
 
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i was invited recently to attend mass at the front of the altsr (inside the rope off area). i was asked not to take photos by the supervisory staff in the cathedral during the botafumeiro ceremony. this is why i suggest johnnie walker might be able to clarify the situation.

Lucky you ;)

Buen Camino!
 
Lucky you ;)

Buen Camino!

i forget to mention to you that it was a high mass at the consecration of new priests by the archbishop. so i am not sure whether the botafumeiro was swung at the end of the mass or in the middle of the mass. this happened in june of this year.
 
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On Friday 2tth September mass was said three times, at 1100, 1200 and 1930. On all occasions it concluded with the botafumeiro. The 1100 mass was a surprise, i went into the cathedral thinking it would be a bit quieter than normal, instead there was a mass which seemed to be for young people. Certainly the majority were young, accompanied by people I took to be school teachers because they were trying to control the kids.

It is a ceremony worth making the effort to see.
 
Just surprised people should take flash photos during a Mass (or any religious ceremony) am I just an old prude,or need to move with the times,in other words has respect for other peoples beliefs,feelings gone,or going ??............:(.........Vicrev
 
i have just checked with someone in santiago. from what i understand you are not allow to take photos with the electronic flash during the botofumeiro ceremony. but allowed without the flash. during the mass no photos are to be taken.
 
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Am rather confused as there has been a team of hi-vis jacketed people circling around and stopped photos being taken, but at the same time they allowed certain people to stand and move around at the back and these people were free to take pictures and videos with their companions. What is the story here with the policing of a place of prayer?
Dear Jalan
as others here have pointed out: the botafumeiro swing is not part of the mass and liturgy, you can find out more on Wikipedia, or, –as I did–, simply ask one of the security people if it is appropriate to discreetly take a video. It is, just as is to take pictures of the inside of this monument.
In fact, the church is fully aware that the botafumeiro in Santiago is a major attraction drawing big crowds into the mass, which must be 'endured' as it takes place at the very end.
I am absolutely with you that it is a lack of respect and common curtesy to disturb the mass itself in whatever ways. Especially this idiotic, technically unnecessary use of flash. Modern digital cameras and smart phones are able to capture the inside of the cathedral perfectly with ambient light. So people, just as you should switch-on the airplane mode of your phones, for heaven's sake cut-off automatic flash and take the pix before or after the mass. :)
Pierre
 
When I was there in September 3 times the botafumeiro swung and at 3 of them we were told that photo and filming was not allowed and staff in hi-vis west stopped some people doing it. But 90 % ignored the wish of no photo/film. My self I just have a mental picture of the ceremony as I decided to respect there rules.
 
The use of flash is prohibited at all times in the cathedral of Santiago. This is because of the belief (myth or not) that flash photography damages art works - in this case the many original frescos in the cathedral and paintings and books in the museum.
 
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The use of flash is prohibited at all times in the cathedral of Santiago. This is because of the belief (myth or not) that flash photography damages art works - in this case the many original frescos in the cathedral and paintings and books in the museum.

thank you john for clarifying and verifying my post. no electronic flash at all times while in the cathedral.
 
thank you john for clarifying and verifying my post. no electronic flash at all times while in the cathedral.

But photos are allowed...... without flash during the botafumiero ceremony ;)

Buen Camino!
 
But photos are allowed...... without flash during the botafumiero ceremony ;)

Buen Camino!

hello mendiwalker,

i believe so.

buen camino. god bless.
 
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Is a photo of such a ceremony really more meaningful to you if you snapped it? I love Google Images, I can always find numerous examples of the shot I never took or was prohibited from taking.
 
Nothing beats seeing something live. To see the botafumiero swung after you have completed your Camino even more.
That image in your retina will remain for all your life.And perhaps even longer.

Buen Camino!
 
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I know many peregrinos are disappointed when the pilgrim mass does not include the swinging of the botafumeiro. This all depends on whether it is one of the holy days or whether a group paid for it for the ceremony.
However it was announced recently that every friday mass at 19:30 hour (7:30 pm) the evening mass will include the botafumeiro ceremony. To avoid being disappointed, try to get there a little bit early and to get seats on the sides of the cathedral.
Buen camino and god bless.
Botafumeiro: Here is the time table.
Sorry. On my computer it comes only in German. Even when I click on the tiny British flag in the upper right corner. :-(
Buen Camino
Jochen
 
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Last Sunday week one of the priests celebrating the Mass was filming the botafumeiro on his phone!
 
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Just surprised people should take flash photos during a Mass

Not an excuse but many people are clueless on how cameras work.

You'll see people using the tiny on camera flash trying to light half a city block.

You'll see people with the lenshood on backwards.

So it's not that they are intentionally using the flash. They likely have no idea how to turn it off or even if the flash exists.
 
Yes, your probably right Nico,I don't think that is always the case though '' tourists'' can at times be such an inconsiderate breed...........;)........Vicrev
 
I know many peregrinos are disappointed when the pilgrim mass does not include the swinging of the botafumeiro. This all depends on whether it is one of the holy days or whether a group paid for it for the ceremony.

However it was announced recently that every friday mass at 19:30 hour (7:30 pm) the evening mass will include the botafumeiro ceremony. To avoid being disappointed, try to get there a little bit early and to get seats on the sides of the cathedral.

Buen camino and god bless.
Just back from Santiago last weekend. One of the confraternities there told us that it was swung almost every day during the the tourist season as tourist groups are paying for it. A circus act they called it rather than a religious experience. Quite frankly the whole pilgrim mass left me cold. Complete disrespect for the Mass by tourists one of whom snatched the Eucharist from the priests hand and stuffed in his pocket. Must have thought it was some sort of souvenir being given out. Could have attended a second one the next day but decided I had had enough of that. Compared to the pilgrim mass in Carrion, well it just didn't come close to the spiritual experience there
 
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I am sorry to hear of your disappointment at the botafumeiro ceremony. Many peregrinos and tourists are all looking forward to the ceremony. Unfortunately you are right in being disappointed. Many of us and othere tourists do not respect and obey the rules and regulations of the cathedral. It is normally announced at the beginning of the mass that no photos are allowed during mass and no electronic flash is allowed to be used in the cathedral. Also, many of us are pushing and shoving trying to go to the front of the cathedral to have a better view of the botafumeiro ceremony.

During my long stay in santiago i usually go to mass at the cathedral. I normally leave at the start of the botafumeiro ceremony as i have witnessed it many, many times. What can be done to make it a more religious experience?

May god bestow his blessing on all of you.
 
Good old botafumeiro... it is a very emotional moment. Unfortunately, sign of the times, approximately 30 or 40 % of people in the cathedral prefer to view it throught their mobile instead of letting go and enjoy such a magical moment. Because it is an amazing experience indeed.

I do not want to get into more controversies about how the cathedral is managed in general terms, but I think it is really a pity that the botafumeiro is not flown every day. I am sure that if somebody organized a collection among pilgrims, it would be easy enough to rise 300 EUR to dedicate it to the show. I am sure most pilgrims would gladly contribute to the cause if they were even given the opportunity to do so. When they arrive in Santiago, if nobody is putting the money, they will not have a chance to see it.

It would be very easy to say that such money could be given more important social uses, but I will refrain from doing so because this is a forum about the camino.

And Jesus entered into the temple and threw out all those selling and buying in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. And he said to them: It is written, 'My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a cave of robbers. (Matthew21)
 
i have just checked with someone in santiago. from what i understand you are not allow to take photos with the electronic flash during the botofumeiro ceremony. but allowed without the flash. during the mass no photos are to be taken.
Sorry to have turned to this forum to ease my confusion about people taking photos and videos during mass in the cathedral. I am now even more confused as the thread is moving into bending the rules that photos can be taken if flash is turned off, and that because of the present trend of 85-90% of people whipping out their cameras during the swinging of the botufumeiro ceremony it would be beyond the capabilities of the hi-vis jacketed enforcers to control this phenomenon. I feel that the rule makers of the cathedral should for a start change the prominent board at the entrance that states clearly in various languages and pictures that photos and videos are NOT ALLOWED. The next step is for them to have a meeting with the Hi-vis enforcers to give clear instructions of how they are to handle the increasing hordes of camera toting visitors fairly. In other words please please move with the times. I thank those who have expressed their opinion, it however does not answer the question of why some people are allowed to take photos and videos while some are stopped in quite a scene from doing so.
 
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Sorry to have turned to this forum to ease my confusion about people taking photos and videos during mass in the cathedral. I am now even more confused as the thread is moving into bending the rules that photos can be taken if flash is turned off, and that because of the present trend of 85-90% of people whipping out their cameras during the swinging of the botufumeiro ceremony it would be beyond the capabilities of the hi-vis jacketed enforcers to control this phenomenon. I feel that the rule makers of the cathedral should for a start change the prominent board at the entrance that states clearly in various languages and pictures that photos and videos are NOT ALLOWED. The next step is for them to have a meeting with the Hi-vis enforcers to give clear instructions of how they are to handle the increasing hordes of camera toting visitors fairly. In other words please please move with the times. I thank those who have expressed their opinion, it however does not answer the question of why some people are allowed to take photos and videos while some are stopped in quite a scene from doing so.

I myself would like to have clarification from the cathedral authority. As far as i know, if johnnie walker can clarified my comment, the taking of photographs whether with or without electronic flash, is absolutely forbidden. However, in my frequent visit to the midday pilgrim mass, i have noticed the rules are not strictly enforced by all the security and church authority during the mass. Maybe the church authority are overwhelmed by so many people taking photos with or without the flash.

Please note there are usually more than 1000 attendees in the cathedral during the high season and there are only so many church authority walking the round. I notice only 3-4 staff doing the round. As the botafumeiro is being prepared for the ceremony. More attendees have started to walk or rush towards the front of the altar where they can watch better the ceremony. And it is impossible for the staff to prevent people from taking photos as the crowd has prevented the staff from approaching people taking photograph.

So what is the solution? To stop people from bringing backpacks or even small handbags into the cathedral?

I would like to remind people going into the cathedral to respect the rules and regulations. But it is easier said than done. Everyone want to bring home a souvenir or remembrance of santiago.

I wish everyone a buen camino. And for those who have finished their caminos, a safe return home. And i hope you will returned to do more caminos. May god bestow his blessing on all of you. And please include in your prayers for the people of spain in hope for a fast recovery from the economic crisis.
 
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It's happening all the time now. I saw it twice in Santiago a couple of weeks ago. Once at the Pilgrims mass and also an evening a few days later. Lots of tourists paying methinks:)

Cheapened it a bit for me:)
 
[...] So what is the solution? To stop people from bringing backpacks or even small handbags into the cathedral? I would like to remind people going into the cathedral to respect the rules and regulations. But it is easier said than done.
In fact, policing hundreds of people in the Cathedral by a handfull of "vigilantes" has proven to be wishful thinking.
On the other hand, rules should be consistent, displayed and explained clearly in a number of languages, and allow for being enforced. The Cathedral's Head of Administration needs to analyse the situation and propose to the Authority what to do, why, when and how. He's got quite a nut to crack, not only between the walls of the Cathedral.
 
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I know many peregrinos are disappointed when the pilgrim mass does not include the swinging of the botafumeiro. This all depends on whether it is one of the holy days or whether a group paid for it for the ceremony.

However it was announced recently that every friday mass at 19:30 hour (7:30 pm) the evening mass will include the botafumeiro ceremony. To avoid being disappointed, try to get there a little bit early and to get seats on the sides of the cathedral.

Buen camino and god bless.
We went to the pilgrims mass on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 and the botafumeiro swung. As you look at the altar, we sat in the left transept...wonderful view, and we took pictures and video, sans flash. Incredibly beautiful and moving...so blessed to have seen it after our journey. Buen Camino!
 
Sorry to have turned to this forum to ease my confusion about people taking photos and videos during mass in the cathedral. I am now even more confused as the thread is moving into bending the rules that photos can be taken if flash is turned off, and that because of the present trend of 85-90% of people whipping out their cameras during the swinging of the botufumeiro ceremony it would be beyond the capabilities of the hi-vis jacketed enforcers to control this phenomenon. I feel that the rule makers of the cathedral should for a start change the prominent board at the entrance that states clearly in various languages and pictures that photos and videos are NOT ALLOWED. The next step is for them to have a meeting with the Hi-vis enforcers to give clear instructions of how they are to handle the increasing hordes of camera toting visitors fairly. In other words please please move with the times. I thank those who have expressed their opinion, it however does not answer the question of why some people are allowed to take photos and videos while some are stopped in quite a scene from doing so.


I saw this too...and I concluded the cathedral security is between a rock and a hard place. They don't want to interrupt the very sanctified atmosphere by going around to the hundreds of pilgrims who flagrantly disobey the rules and hold cameras, flashes, iphones, ipads, etc etc etc as high as they can to "capture" the best imagery, after being told clearly by loudspeaker NOT to do this. So they just tell one or two quietly and within reach.

I actually felt ashamed of my fellow pilgrims for the 1st time, grabbing photos after being asked not to during the Botafumeiro ceremony. I don't care if you don't believe in the holiness of this ritual, (it is a moot point to me). The fact is, we are a guest in this "house", and we have been asked not to do one simple thing. The greed of capturing this imagery and showing it later to friends, or possessing it to relive later, seems to overrule common decency.

There are many, many videos of the swinging urn on Youtube, probably just as good or better than you can get. Show your friends these videos.

PS The absence of a flash is another moot point; just a way of feeling better about disregarding the request of our hosts
 
A mass is a religious ceremony and while a mass is going on people should respect it whether they are Catholic as is in this case or not and not take photographs or go sightseeing around the cathedral, etc. Once the mass has ended the botafumiero is swung. The swinging of the botafumiero is not part of the mass hence people are allowed to take their photos and no one will tell you to stop.

Buen Camino!
Not to split hairs or to be argumentative, but the Mass is not technically finished until after the Rite of Conclusion, which includes the final blessing by the priest and the parting directive, "The Mass is ended, go in peace" (or the equivalent in Spanish or whatever the local dialect is. As I recall from the two Masses we attended where the botafumiero was swung, the Rite of Conclusion came after the botafumiero. Of course my memory of these occasions may not be entirely accurate. But nevertheless, nearly everyone in attendance -- myself included -- brought out their cameras and recorded the entire botafumiero ceremony. I'd consider that a relatively minor sin ;).

Buen Camino,
Jim
 
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Specific, probably time sensitive information. According to our tour guide the botafumeiro is used at the 7:30 service on Friday night unless other arrangements are made. At least as of November 2013.
 
Specific, probably time sensitive information. According to our tour guide the botafumeiro is used at the 7:30 service on Friday night unless other arrangements are made. At least as of November 2013.

Hello susan,

The botafumeiro has been swinging at every 19:30 hour (07:30 pm) friday mass until further notice. The botafumeiro will also be swinging at the midday pilgrim mass on holy days and will be swinging also to whoever pay for the service.

Buen camino.
 
[...]There are many, many videos of the swinging urn on Youtube, probably just as good or better than you can get. Show your friends these videos.[...]
I'm afraid that the Botafumeiro swinging is becoming similar to Disney Land's dolphins show. There's no business like show business. Could Santiago be turning in his grave?
 
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I’m sure I recall when I attended the Mass in May of this year, the congregation was told that photography during the Mass was not permitted, but it was permitted during the swinging of the Botafumeiro. Personally, I preferred to forego attempts to capture this event on film, in favour of just being in the moment.
 
I’m sure I recall when I attended the Mass in May of this year, the congregation was told that photography during the Mass was not permitted, but it was permitted during the swinging of the Botafumeiro. Personally, I preferred to forego attempts to capture this event on film, in favour of just being in the moment.
The Camino to many if not most is a once in a lifetime experience, an experience we make a point to share with family and friends. It marks an important TimeLine in my (sorry to sound so self-centred) life and showing the film, in digital form, to our congregation, school, and club elicited many favourable comments, particularly from those who will never be able to make the Camino. Capturing the swinging of the Botafumero with a camera does not detract from the being in the moment for me, the moment can be very distracting with the pushing and shoving, seeing the blatant disregard to the pleas not to use flash, not finding a seat. I have had many a nasty stare from the well dressed front pew folks when I walked in late with a crying baby in our hushed City Cathedral as it seem to take away their moment.
 
The Camino to many if not most is a once in a lifetime experience, an experience we make a point to share with family and friends. It marks an important TimeLine in my (sorry to sound so self-centred) life and showing the film, in digital form, to our congregation, school, and club elicited many favourable comments, particularly from those who will never be able to make the Camino. Capturing the swinging of the Botafumero with a camera does not detract from the being in the moment for me, the moment can be very distracting with the pushing and shoving, seeing the blatant disregard to the pleas not to use flash, not finding a seat. I have had many a nasty stare from the well dressed front pew folks when I walked in late with a crying baby in our hushed City Cathedral as it seem to take away their moment.
Just to clarify, in case there is any misunderstanding ….. I meant no disrespect whatever to those persons who choose to film the botafumiero ceremony; initially, I too tried to film it. What I was saying is that I found my attempts at filming it were distracting to me, so I abandoned those attempts, in favour of just being in the moment. What others chose to do during that time, to film or not film, had no effect on me.
 
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