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Teens - I’m Disheartened and Grouchy

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Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#1
I’ve said this for 4 years but it’s time.
I’m too old and crotchety for the Camino.
It’s true.
I am out of patience - I guess I just need to become a hermit.

I’m now at San Martin Pinario in the pilgrim rooms.

I feel sorry for any weary pilgrims here.

There is a group of about 15 southern American teens here who have been crazy out of control.
Whoever is supposed to be Supervising them is either deaf or absent.

All day and into the night they run room to room, yelling and SLAMMING doors.
They are laying in the halls, chasing each other, yelling.
Last night after 10, there were two blood curdling LOUD screams that sat me up in bed.
It sounded like someone was being attacked.

I finally reported this to the management but by the time he got there they were quiet.
The minute he left, they started up again.

WTF are the adults???

I’ve never seen such a rude, obnoxious bunch.

These are not pilgrims.
They act like rotten, spoiled brats who should have stayed home.

It feels like the Camino Francis has become a Circus.
I’m so done.
Ack!
 
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Robo

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
Alone.
------------------------------
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
with my wife Pat.
------------------------------
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
together again :-)
#2
I think that place provides accommodation for all kinds of people. The night we had dinner there, there was a school concert...... Sorry to hear of your experience.

I don't think the 'Camino' has become a circus. The Camino Frances maybe ;-)
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#3
I think that place provides accommodation for all kinds of people. The night we had dinner there, there was a school concert...... Sorry to hear of your experience.

I don't think the 'Camino' has become a circus. The Camino Frances maybe ;-)
Yeah. I should have specified THE CF.

I’m just a grouch this morning.
Lack of sleep and sad that I didn’t get to walk much.

These kids apparently walked from Sarria, though they sure don’t seem tired. Lol.

One more night.
Home Sweet Home!
 

Robo

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
Alone.
------------------------------
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
with my wife Pat.
------------------------------
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
together again :-)
#4
As long as they stay on the CF and leave the other Caminos to the adults ;)
 

SEB

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
April (2015) SJPdP to SdC; Porto to SdC April (2016)
#5
I’m now at San Martin Pinario in the pilgrim rooms.

I feel sorry for any weary pilgrims here.

There is a group of about 15 southern American teens here who have been crazy out of control.
Whoever is supposed to be Supervising them is either deaf or absent.

All day and into the night they run room to room, yelling and SLAMMING doors.
They are laying in the halls, chasing each other, yelling.
Last night after 10, there were two blood curdling LOUD screams that sat me up in bed.
It sounded like someone was being attacked.

I finally reported this to the management but by the time he got there they were quiet.
The minute he left, they started up again.Ack!
Had a similar experience in May 2016 when several young groups were staying there and the noise was so intrusive that tourists were checking out early because they couldn't get any peace. They had paid top dollar for the hotel-style rooms on the lower floor but the disruption affected them too. The acoustics of the top floor magnify any sounds in the corridors and the doors could benefit from a slow closure device to eradicate the slamming. And you are right @Anniesantiago that if there is a youth group there should be a leader who can ensure that the understandably high-spirits after walking (or cycling) a Camino does not deteriorate into unruly behaviour which disturbs everyone else.
 

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Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
#6
Deepest sympathies. That sort of behaviour is inexcusable - from any nationality at any age. I also share your view that the Camino Frances has become a circus for much of the year. Very different from the Camino I first walked and which has shaped my life in many ways. Sadly I have reached the conclusion that there is little to be done about it now but to walk other routes and at other times to find something of the experience which drew me to Spain in the first place.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#8
I’ve said this for 4 years but it’s time.
I’m too old and crotchety for the Camino.
It’s true.
I am out of patience - I guess I just need to become a hermit.

I’m now at San Martin Pinario in the pilgrim rooms.

I feel sorry for any weary pilgrims here.

There is a group of about 15 southern American teens here who have been crazy out of control.
Whoever is supposed to be Supervising them is either deaf or absent.

All day and into the night they run room to room, yelling and SLAMMING doors.
They are laying in the halls, chasing each other, yelling.
Last night after 10, there were two blood curdling LOUD screams that sat me up in bed.
It sounded like someone was being attacked.

I finally reported this to the management but by the time he got there they were quiet.
The minute he left, they started up again.

WTF are the adults???

I’ve never seen such a rude, obnoxious bunch.

These are not pilgrims.
They act like rotten, spoiled brats who should have stayed home.

It feels like the Camino Francis has become a Circus.
I’m so done.
Ack!
With one notable exception of a very well-behaved and respectful group of young French, whenever I've come across such groups over the past 25 years, I've either just grabbed my sleeping bag and slept outdoors, or walked to the next pueblo.
 

Kiwi-family

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Past: (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016)
Future (God-willing): Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo (2018)
#9
Dear @Anniesantiago
You might be grouchy but the adults need to do their job.
I used to think the Camino really shouldn’t be done as a school group....until the year we met a group in Santiago who had “just” walked from Sarria. Their leaders had ensured those kids had a real pilgrim experience - they did things like ban phones while walking, insist on silence for the first two hours, require an interview with a foreigner and a Spaniard.....they wrote journals, created art work, had daily feedback sessions, had a guest lecturer from the cathedral. We spent a couple of days staying at the same place and they dragged us along to dinner and the feedback meetings and soccer games with them. I was blown away talking with the teachers who had combined from three different schools to make this happen. They were so organised - even had shower rosters! The kids were jubilant, yet polite. I must admit I am not easily impressed (also slow to take offence) but I was stunned. Most of this group of nearly 100 kids were 15-16. I wish you could have met them.
 

andywild

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
april '2018'
#10
It's interesting how different people have different views. For the last 100km I had groups of teenagers singing Taylor swift songs.. chatting incessantly and generally being loud and teenagery (it should be a word). I would have rather walked the first 700km with them rather than the group of (incredibly rude) middle aged french women that I seemed to keep bumping into.. I turned the negativity into a positive by imagining how annoyed they must have been by my constant snoring.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata.
#11
I experienced exactly the same bad behaviour as @Anniesantiago reports when I stayed in a hotel in Santiponce, just outside Sevilla, on the Via de la Plata. Not from a bunch of US school-kids, but an adult tour group from another nation. Which shall be nameless, because I don't think it fair to tar a whole nation by the behaviour of a few. The whole night long they were laughing, shouting, talking in the corridors, walking from room to room, banging doors open and shut - and playing what appeared to be loud games of one sort or another. In the morning the hotel manager tentatively asked me how I had slept and when I, equally tentatively, said "there was a bit of noise" he apologised profusely - immediately saying the name and nationality of the guilty tour group.

I can't understand how adults can do without sleep, but as this was a tour group perhaps they all sleep on the bus.
 

Peter Fransiscus

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
All that we are is the result of what we have thought.
#13
I’ve said this for 4 years but it’s time.
I’m too old and crotchety for the Camino.
It’s true.
I am out of patience - I guess I just need to become a hermit.

I’m now at San Martin Pinario in the pilgrim rooms.

I feel sorry for any weary pilgrims here.

There is a group of about 15 southern American teens here who have been crazy out of control.
Whoever is supposed to be Supervising them is either deaf or absent.

All day and into the night they run room to room, yelling and SLAMMING doors.
They are laying in the halls, chasing each other, yelling.
Last night after 10, there were two blood curdling LOUD screams that sat me up in bed.
It sounded like someone was being attacked.

I finally reported this to the management but by the time he got there they were quiet.
The minute he left, they started up again.

WTF are the adults???

I’ve never seen such a rude, obnoxious bunch.

These are not pilgrims.
They act like rotten, spoiled brats who should have stayed home.

It feels like the Camino Francis has become a Circus.
I’m so done.
Ack!
We where there on April 18th.

We had the same problem and my patience level is not that high.
We went over and I didn't say nice words to them and asked where the adults where.
They where sleeping a floor lower so we got them out of bed , first they where not happy with me but that was not my problem.
After talking to them they went to the youngsters and send them to bed .

After that the silence had returned .
That night I made no friends but who cares ,not me.

Wish you well ,Peter .
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#16
Ear plugs, eye shade, Xanax, and reactive snoring...LOUD snoring...does it for me...

I seem to remember that I was that age once, albeit for a very short time...;)
I was that age also and my parents would have smacked me into tomorrow if I had behaved this way in a public (Or private) place!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, VdlP 2016, Fishermans Walk, Sultan's Trail (2017), Portugese and el Norte (2018)
#17
I was going to have a rest day at the youth hostel in Ribadesella (CdN) which is right on a beach with good surf but unfortunately impossible with 50 screaming kids there at the same time. Great place though.
 

stgcph

Camino tortuga
Camino(s) past & future
CF (Aug/Sep 2017)
#18
There is a huge difference between what you may call ”natural sounds” like snoring, teeth grinding, sleep talking and even letting go of winds and having to visit the loo in the night and then rude and inconsiderate behavior. The first category I guess you’ll have to put up with and manage in some way if you want to stay in dormitories. The second type would test the tolerance of most people to the limit (and beyond).
 

grayland

Moderator
Staff member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Yes
#19
I had an equally bad experience at the often recommended hostel Triana in Sevilla. These were young adults..not school kids. Constant high noise level party all night and was still at high pitch when I left to start the VdlP at 6am. The young guy on the desk said that it was normal.
 

ksam

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Portuguese '08, Frances '11, del Norte '14, Invierno '16, Ingles '17, Primitivo October 2018
#20
Have to say I agree whole heartedly with Peter Franciscus response. The ones in "charge" need to be told that their charges are out of control. And heck yeah...wake them up to do it ;-)

Sorry your walk is ending on a slightly sour note Annie!
 

easygoing

Walking the Camino with my 15 year old self
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
I have walked the Camino Francis 5 times, twice in 2017. (May 2018 and September 2018)
#21
I’ve said this for 4 years but it’s time.
I’m too old and crotchety for the Camino.
It’s true.
I am out of patience - I guess I just need to become a hermit.

I’m now at San Martin Pinario in the pilgrim rooms.

I feel sorry for any weary pilgrims here.

There is a group of about 15 southern American teens here who have been crazy out of control.
Whoever is supposed to be Supervising them is either deaf or absent.

All day and into the night they run room to room, yelling and SLAMMING doors.
They are laying in the halls, chasing each other, yelling.
Last night after 10, there were two blood curdling LOUD screams that sat me up in bed.
It sounded like someone was being attacked.

I finally reported this to the management but by the time he got there they were quiet.
The minute he left, they started up again.

WTF are the adults???

I’ve never seen such a rude, obnoxious bunch.

These are not pilgrims.
They act like rotten, spoiled brats who should have stayed home.

It feels like the Camino Francis has become a Circus.
I’m so done.
Ack!
If you can't beat them, join them. 2 years ago I had a similar experience. So down in the lounge I went over to a group of four girls that were sitting there talking. And I said tell me about your trip. It was amazing. They we're processing the trip. 1 of the girls hugged everybody she met. Some of the other ones had trouble walking. But all of them were changed by the Camino. Teenagers have a lot of energy. But try talking to a group of them or even one and you might find something to like.
 
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Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#22
I had an equally bad experience at the often recommended hostel Triana in Sevilla. These were young adults..not school kids. Constant high noise level party all night and was still at high pitch when I left to start the VdlP at 6am. The young guy on the desk said that it was normal.
I stayed there one Semana Santa and had the same experience!
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Ch. d'Arles: Oloron Ste Marie to Aragones; Frances (2016); V.d.l.P.; Sanabres (2017)
#23
I had an equally bad experience at the often recommended hostel Triana in Sevilla. These were young adults..not school kids. Constant high noise level party all night and was still at high pitch when I left to start the VdlP at 6am. The young guy on the desk said that it was normal.
@grayland
I had heard that Triana was a noisy party place, so I spent my two nights in Seville at Hotel Simon: historic, quiet, a reasonable price for pilgrims and a great place to stay before beginning the VdlP. You can get credencials there too.
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#24
If you can't beat them, join them. 2 years ago I had a similar experience. so down in the lounge I went over to a group of four girls that were sitting there talking. And I said tell me about your trip. It was amazing. They we're processing the trip. 1 of the girls hugged everybody she met the other some of the other ones had trouble walking. But all of them were changed by the Camino. Teenagers have a lot of energy. But try talking to a group of them or even one and you might find something to like.
I have three grown sons.
They were respectful teenagers.
I also have two 14 year old grandchildren.
I love teenagers - and we talk often.
But then, they act like young adults - not wild animals.
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times, but soon again I hope....
#25
Those damned kids! (Image of my middle aged arse shaking a fist in the air) :D
Yes, the massive popularity of the Frances. The influx of teenagers and partying younger crowd. The sometimes repulsive commercialization and profiting on its popularity. The unsightly and damaging graffiti. Crowded albergues. All that stuff not going away.
que sera sera
sabai sabai
 

SabineP

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
some and then more. see my signature.
#27
Had some lovely encounters on the Camino with younger groups : scouts with their leaders and 16 year old students with their teachers.
Had some horrible encounters with 40 plus adults who were loud, obnoxious and very drunk in hostels and albergues.
At least the second group should know better.
Stupidity has no age.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Caminos Madrid, Frances and Finisterre (2015)
Camino Norte-2017; Camino Ingles from A Coruna - 2017
#28
@grayland
I had heard that Triana was a noisy party place, so I spent my two nights in Seville at Hotel Simon: historic, quiet, a reasonable price for pilgrims and a great place to stay before beginning the VdlP. You can get credencials there too.
Ditto the recommendation for Hotel Simon.
 

PG3

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
1 (2017)
#29
Imagine that!! A group of teenagers visiting a foreign country during summer vacation and BEING NOISY!!! What has this world come to?! When we were young and on vacation, we spent all our time meditating.
Someone needs to inform these hellions that the Camino is a quiet, solitary place with strictly-enforced noise limits.

Or maybe if it's too loud, you're too old.
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#31
Imagine that!! A group of teenagers visiting a foreign country during summer vacation and BEING NOISY!!! What has this world come to?! When we were young and on vacation, we spent all our time meditating.
Someone needs to inform these hellions that the Camino is a quiet, solitary place with strictly-enforced noise limits.

Or maybe if it's too loud, you're too old.
Let me begin by saying that is exactly what I wrote in my second sentence.

My opinion is that there is a huge difference between “noisy” and 13+ teenagers screaming and running down the halls, slamming doors, and pounding walls, literally, until late into the night in a hotel where people are expecting to sleep.

There ARE expectations of a reasonable amount of ‘indoor voice’ talking after 10 or 11 pm in most countries. Shouting at your friend 20 feet down the hall and screaming bloody murder is not within those expectations for most people, I would dare to say.

If that type of behavior is ok with you, then I have no common ground from which to discuss this issue.

I do agree I’ve seen plenty of bad behavior from adults and I have seen well-behaved young people.

But this group takes the cake!
 

Peter Fransiscus

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
All that we are is the result of what we have thought.
#32
Ear plugs, eye shade, Xanax, and reactive snoring...LOUD snoring...does it for me...

I seem to remember that I was that age once, albeit for a very short time...;)
Snoring ok , but running around and screaming all over the place late at night that has nothing to do with age .

Wish you well. Peter.
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times, but soon again I hope....
#33
Imagine that!! A group of teenagers visiting a foreign country during summer vacation and BEING NOISY!!! What has this world come to?! When we were young and on vacation, we spent all our time meditating.
Someone needs to inform these hellions that the Camino is a quiet, solitary place with strictly-enforced noise limits.

Or maybe if it's too loud, you're too old.
I do not think that is what it is. I did my share of hell raising when young. Never was a silly teenager running around acting rudely in a group like that in a communal environment, though. When traveling with a sports team we had strict rules, and curfews and behavior expectations. Our coaches and such would have made us pay dearly for acting the fool like that. Then I got older. On deployments in the army acting the fool like that in public would have gotten our young asses locked up, ha ha. Not to mention the hell to pay later when reunited with the unit and the dreaded first sergeant. :(
There were, at least in my experience, expectations of behavior in that type of situation. Fortunately I have never experienced that behavior on any Camino I was on and it is rare. Just as so many of the negative issues brought up on this forum. More than anything, just the OP venting.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino de Santiago, St Jean to Santuago, 2015
Camino Portuguese, 2018
#36
I’ve said this for 4 years but it’s time.
I’m too old and crotchety for the Camino.
It’s true.
I am out of patience - I guess I just need to become a hermit.

I’m now at San Martin Pinario in the pilgrim rooms.

I feel sorry for any weary pilgrims here.

There is a group of about 15 southern American teens here who have been crazy out of control.
Whoever is supposed to be Supervising them is either deaf or absent.

All day and into the night they run room to room, yelling and SLAMMING doors.
They are laying in the halls, chasing each other, yelling.
Last night after 10, there were two blood curdling LOUD screams that sat me up in bed.
It sounded like someone was being attacked.

I finally reported this to the management but by the time he got there they were quiet.
The minute he left, they started up again.

WTF are the adults???

I’ve never seen such a rude, obnoxious bunch.

These are not pilgrims.
They act like rotten, spoiled brats who should have stayed home.

It feels like the Camino Francis has become a Circus.
I’m so done.
Ack!
Makes me “sangry”! (sad and angry, take off on “hangry”). I certainly hope whoever is “in charge” of these kids gets an earful.
 

davebugg

DustOff: "When I have your wounded."
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#37
Imagine that!! A group of teenagers visiting a foreign country during summer vacation and BEING NOISY!!! What has this world come to?! When we were young and on vacation, we spent all our time meditating.
Someone needs to inform these hellions that the Camino is a quiet, solitary place with strictly-enforced noise limits.

Or maybe if it's too loud, you're too old.
:) The tone of that post seems to explain the underlying judgement employed by the author's defense of rude and bad behavior. :rolleyes:
 

RobertS26

Active Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, Oct 2013
Camino Frances, Aug 2014
Camino Frances, Apr 2015
#39
About 25 years ago, the United States started a huge social experiment. Score was no longer kept at athletic events. Every participant, regardless of effort or skill, got the same exact "participation trophy." Celebrating graduation from high school or college was no longer good enough. Elaborate ceremonies were created for children graduating from pre-school to kindergarten. If kids misbehaved in class they were no longer sent to the principal's office so the others could learn in peace and quiet. The fear was the discipline would scar them for the rest of their lives. So they remained in class, acting out without any fear of discipline.

Now 25 years later America is reaping the harvest of what it sowed. We are deluged with a generation of self-entitled brats who expect everyone to yield to their desires.
 
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C clearly

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
#40
We are deluged with a generation of self-entitled brats who expect everyone to yield to their desires.
I dislike rambunctious teenagers as much as the next person, and I agree that children need to have wise discipline, but that is a sweeping glass-half-full generalization with very limited truth in it.
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#41
About 25 years ago, the United States started a huge social experiment. Score was no longer kept at athletic events. Every participant, regardless of effort or skill, got the same exact "participation trophy." Celebrating graduation from high school or college was no longer good enough. Elaborate ceremonies were created for children graduating from pre-school to kindergarten. If kids misbehaved in class they were no longer sent to the principal's office so the others could learn in peace and quiet. The fear was the discipline would scare them for the rest of their lives.

Now 25 years later America is reaping the harvest of what it sowed. We are deluged with a generation of self-entitled brats who expect everyone to yield to their desires.
Well, sadly, I agree that has been much of the problem and I think history will revisit this decision and see how unwise it was.

When they get into the real world, it doesn’t coddle them - and their inability to deal puts plain old biology into motion.
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#42
I dislike rambunctious teenagers as much as the next person, and I agree that children need to have wise discipline, but that is a sweeping glass-half-full generalization with very limited truth in it.
Perhaps in Canada.
But in the USA, we are reaping what we sowed.
 

andywild

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
april '2018'
#43
I blame the parents!! Or fizzy drinks.. hmm or is it TV and video games? Or maybe social media.. hang on, rap music!! I'm guessing this thread has gone off topic slightly.. although I do enjoy a good discussion.. I'll play devils advocate and say it shouldn't be up to schools etc to police kids.. surely the primary caregiver/parent is responsible for their child's behaviour both in and out of school? Teachers wouldn't have to police children if they were brought up properly in the first place? If my kid misbehaved I wouldn't be blaming anyone but their mum and dad. Well, definitely their mum, their dad is a lovely chap!
 

SabineP

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Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
some and then more. see my signature.
#44
I blame the parents!! Or fizzy drinks.. hmm or is it TV and video games? Or maybe social media.. hang on, rap music!! I'm guessing this thread has gone off topic slightly.. although I do enjoy a good discussion.. I'll play devils advocate and say it shouldn't be up to schools etc to police kids.. surely the primary caregiver/parent is responsible for their child's behaviour both in and out of school? Teachers wouldn't have to police children if they were brought up properly in the first place? If my kid misbehaved I wouldn't be blaming anyone but their mum and dad. Well, definitely their mum, their dad is a lovely chap!
Oh Andy ! Triple like!!
 
Camino(s) past & future
6/7, 2013 SJPP to Santiago-finisher-Muniz, 6/7, 2016 La Verna to Rome, 6/7/8, 2018 VDLP
#45
If you want a quite place, come to VdiP now, I have been having an entire room, if not the entire Albergue by myself for 5 days, only met one other fellow pilgrim last night. This is Day 5.
 

davebugg

DustOff: "When I have your wounded."
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#46
I blame the parents!! Or fizzy drinks.. hmm or is it TV and video games? Or maybe social media.. hang on, rap music!! I'm guessing this thread has gone off topic slightly.. although I do enjoy a good discussion.. I'll play devils advocate and say it shouldn't be up to schools etc to police kids.. surely the primary caregiver/parent is responsible for their child's behaviour both in and out of school? Teachers wouldn't have to police children if they were brought up properly in the first place? If my kid misbehaved I wouldn't be blaming anyone but their mum and dad. Well, definitely their mum, their dad is a lovely chap!
:) I agree, parents are the ones who have been the primary instructors who have required and reinforced, or not, politeness, respect for others and their property, expected social norms, and caring about others.

When on school field trips or other outings as an officially sanctioned event, the teacher becomes the one to monitor and correct deviations from appropriate behavior as a proxy for parents. Or as the judge and jury for those not raised with proper instruction and the modeling of appropriate behavior.
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times, but soon again I hope....
#47
I dislike rambunctious teenagers as much as the next person, and I agree that children need to have wise discipline, but that is a sweeping glass-half-full generalization with very limited truth in it.
Agreed. Also, it's a bit offensive to lump everyone into one category based on country of origin. I do not believe I ever observed a high school football game in the U.S. where no one was keeping score. It always looked quite competitive to me, they played hard and there was a scoreboard that was keeping score.
I have five nieces and nephews in the U.S. under 22 yoa. All played competitive sports, all were raised in homes where education and values were important and none grew up to be self entitled.
 

Walking Lover

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CdS from Leon to Santiago, June 16, 2016 to June 30, 2016.
#48
I’ve said this for 4 years but it’s time.
I’m too old and crotchety for the Camino.
It’s true.
I am out of patience - I guess I just need to become a hermit.

I’m now at San Martin Pinario in the pilgrim rooms.

I feel sorry for any weary pilgrims here.

There is a group of about 15 southern American teens here who have been crazy out of control.
Whoever is supposed to be Supervising them is either deaf or absent.

All day and into the night they run room to room, yelling and SLAMMING doors.
They are laying in the halls, chasing each other, yelling.
Last night after 10, there were two blood curdling LOUD screams that sat me up in bed.
It sounded like someone was being attacked.

I finally reported this to the management but by the time he got there they were quiet.
The minute he left, they started up again.

WTF are the adults???

I’ve never seen such a rude, obnoxious bunch.

These are not pilgrims.
They act like rotten, spoiled brats who should have stayed home.

It feels like the Camino Francis has become a Circus.
I’m so done.
Ack!
I agree that not enough instruction is given to teens who plan to do a Camino. I can also say the same about some adults. We were in Belorado when P and S played their soccer game. We were in a hostel, but the loud chatter and laughter coming from the bars kept me awake. I think those who walk a little further each day ate smart. I imagine it gets them to a calmer place. What happened to the 10:00 rule that I thought albergues followed?
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Ch. d'Arles: Oloron Ste Marie to Aragones; Frances (2016); V.d.l.P.; Sanabres (2017)
#51
About 25 years ago, the United States started a huge social experiment. Score was no longer kept at athletic events. Every participant, regardless of effort or skill, got the same exact "participation trophy." Celebrating graduation from high school or college was no longer good enough. Elaborate ceremonies were created for children graduating from pre-school to kindergarten. If kids misbehaved in class they were no longer sent to the principal's office so the others could learn in peace and quiet. The fear was the discipline would scar them for the rest of their lives. So they remained in class, acting out without any fear of discipline.

Now 25 years later America is reaping the harvest of what it sowed. We are deluged with a generation of self-entitled brats who expect everyone to yield to their desires.
@RobertS26
I do not see the connection between non-competitive sports and misbehaviour. I have a niece who has engaged in group physical activity most of her life (she is now 35), mostly without the competitive aspect. I have attended her swim meets and cheered her on for soccer and snowboarding. She enjoys good health and many friendships through such activities. Currently, she travels to soccer meets in summer and teaches snowboarding in winter. Her life has been much enriched and expanded through the activity and the discipline of sports. She has been seen as "mentally challenged" but in her sporting activities she is no different from the many persons who enjoy sports as communal fun.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2011)
#53
Imagine that!! A group of teenagers visiting a foreign country during summer vacation and BEING NOISY!!! What has this world come to?! When we were young and on vacation, we spent all our time meditating.
Someone needs to inform these hellions that the Camino is a quiet, solitary place with strictly-enforced noise limits.

Or maybe if it's too loud, you're too old.
I don't think this is a very considerate thing to say, especially when EVERYONE get "old"!! But what is "old"? It is a relative thing, but someday you....PG3.....will be forty, or fifty or seventy (if you are fortunate) and your expectations of behaviour may be decidedly different than they are right now! A little consideration for others who are, albeit temporarily, your roomies goes a very long way. Just sayin'!
 
#54
I'm so sorry about the loud group. I just took a group of 15 university students on the Frances a month ago. There were a few times that I swore my group was being too loud and I thought we'd be kicked to the curb. But in actuality, there were many times that our group was praised for how kind and well-behaved they were. Some days, we are saints and some days we are sinners... I hope you get some rest.

Next year, I'm taking the university group on the Portuguese to avoid all the groups and traffic on the Frances. I think I'm "done" with the Frances, too. But I don't think St. James is done with me, yet. My students also thought the last 100 km of the pilgrimage was too crowded and commercial but they all seemed to get out of it what most pilgrims do - love for themselves, confidence, and clarity.
 

Tincatinker

Moderator
Staff member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Lots ;0)
#55
Gently pilgrims, gently. Let us try to avoid personal remarks - except about noisy, selfish, arrogant, rude, over-indulged teen-agers....

Though I do recall my own astonishment when chastised for playing Chuck Berry with my amp turned up to 11 in my first bed-sitter. It had never occurred to me that my neighbours even existed let alone that they might not like Chuck Berry :confused:
 

AlwynWellington

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
please see signature
#56
Kia ora tatou (greetings to all)

In two months of walking from Le Puy to Santiago I had only one really bad experience.

It was the day I entered Galicia in November 2017..

I had slept at La Faba and enjoyed the pull up the top half of the hill first thing in the morning with an intention of arriving at Samos for the next sleep. The weather was brilliant, clear sky and warm and visibility into the far distance.

It was about 11 am when I arrived at Alto do Poio, ready for brunch. I put my pack on an outside chair and went inside to get a long drink from the bar. Already there were three or four late teenagers who were in the process of ordering something: it seemed like they were celebrating. Maybe, I surmised they had started that day and two hours from O'Cebreiro was a major milestone for them. They were joined by two or three more. There was much pointing at all the drinks on the shelves, much discussion amongst themselves and changing of minds. All the while the other clientelle was increasing in numbers.

The moment (and my sanity) was resolved by another staffer coming down to the bar.

It was OK for the group to celebrate whatever milestones were important to them.

And hopefully, they eventually got to understand there were many others also on the way.
 

hel&scott

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2004 St Jean - Santiago, 2008 Seville - Finestere, 2010 Ferrol - Lisbon, 2012 from Cartehenga.
#57
Oh @Anniesantiago i feel your pain, us grumpy old ladies need to stay off the CF, that said we've all experienced odd behaviour on other routes from a range of age and countries... And I am sure their are stories circulating out there about us.

@Tincatinker , Chuck Berry, really, you are showing your age.
 

Morgan Holmes

Every day is a path to walk.
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances to Santiago from SJPDP (2014); Sahagún to Santiago (2018).
#60
It occurs to me that in its beginnings as a trade route built by the Romans, the road presented morbid dangers of all sorts that included strip mining the gold out of Northern Spain, and the deep oppression of the slaves and slave/soldiers who built it. Then we have the Crusades and their obvious violence, and the medieval period that brought the hazards of death by plague and malnutrition, exposure to the elements, etc. -- not to mention highway robbery, and the use of the camino as a place to send the undesirables as punishment for various crimes.
Seen from this angle, it would appear to me that an authentic camino would be anything *but* peaceful. Perhaps the youth are merely part of a long tradition of placing challenges on the route of those who seek something other than an easy peace.
 

Ahhhs

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP to Santiago, May 2015
Porto to Santiago, April 2016
Muxia-Finisterre-Santiago, April 2016
Camino Del Norte, April 2017
#61
Teenagers are often very self absorbed. Their world view is very narrow. They haven't experienced a lot of life and don't always realize or even notice how their behavior affects others. I wonder what would have happened if someone had approached them and reminded them that people are tired and trying to rest and just how annoying slamming doors can be from the other side. Of course their parents should have taught them to be considerate. But reminders from fellow pilgrims can't hurt. Sometimes it takes a village...
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times, but soon again I hope....
#62
It occurs to me that in its beginnings as a trade route built by the Romans, the road presented morbid dangers of all sorts that included strip mining the gold out of Northern Spain, and the deep oppression of the slaves and slave/soldiers who built it. Then we have the Crusades and their obvious violence, and the medieval period that brought the hazards of death by plague and malnutrition, exposure to the elements, etc. -- not to mention highway robbery, and the use of the camino as a place to send the undesirables as punishment for various crimes.
Seen from this angle, it would appear to me that an authentic camino would be anything *but* peaceful. Perhaps the youth are merely part of a long tradition of placing challenges on the route of those who seek something other than an easy peace.
Ha ha....so very true. Modern pilgrims, overall (I know there have been some tragedies occur recently) do have it so much better than the one's of even say, just 100 years ago.
Goofy, silly teenagers (weren't we all at one time?) acting up is a far cry from say a pack of four legged or two legged wolves that once lurked on the path centuries ago.
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#63
Teenagers are often very self absorbed. Their world view is very narrow. They haven't experienced a lot of life and don't always realize or even notice how their behavior affects others. I wonder what would have happened if someone had approached them and reminded them that people are tired and trying to rest and just how annoying slamming doors can be from the other side. Of course their parents should have taught them to be considerate. But reminders from fellow pilgrims can't hurt. Sometimes it takes a village...
Actually, I tried that on three different occasions. Calmly. Then I spoke with their group leader. Calmly. Last night they were at it until nearly 11 again, including their leader.

Thank the gods and St James I have a private room tonight in Madrid.
 

MichaelB10398

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago de Compostela, Lourdes to SdC, SJPP to SdC
#64
The Camino has long had a commitment to welcome all regardless of age, religion, knowledge, or attitude. We remain committed to that concept.
For the pilgrim, it was a matter of sacred steps and for others, it was an inexpensive vacation in wonderful Spain. As the Camino has grown and gained in notoriety it may be that those committed to pilgrimage may be fewer in number. If so, these pilgrims may need to plan a little more and seek out sleeping arrangments that allow for peaceful slumber.
However, we should all continue to engage with others and be welcoming to all regardless of the reason one is on Camino.
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#65
It occurs to me that in its beginnings as a trade route built by the Romans, the road presented morbid dangers of all sorts that included strip mining the gold out of Northern Spain, and the deep oppression of the slaves and slave/soldiers who built it. Then we have the Crusades and their obvious violence, and the medieval period that brought the hazards of death by plague and malnutrition, exposure to the elements, etc. -- not to mention highway robbery, and the use of the camino as a place to send the undesirables as punishment for various crimes.
Seen from this angle, it would appear to me that an authentic camino would be anything *but* peaceful. Perhaps the youth are merely part of a long tradition of placing challenges on the route of those who seek something other than an easy peace.[/

I have reflected and can think of any of my crimes that would deserve this harsh punishment! Lol!
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata.
#67
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households." Supposedly said by Socrates in 430BC, and quoted by Plato. Although there is doubt about the authenticity of the quote, it does seem to be a very old sentiment!
 

Saint Mike II

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
#68
I’ve said this for 4 years but it’s time.
I’m too old and crotchety for the Camino.
It’s true.
I am out of patience - I guess I just need to become a hermit.

I’m now at San Martin Pinario in the pilgrim rooms.

I feel sorry for any weary pilgrims here.

There is a group of about 15 southern American teens here who have been crazy out of control.
Whoever is supposed to be Supervising them is either deaf or absent.

All day and into the night they run room to room, yelling and SLAMMING doors.
They are laying in the halls, chasing each other, yelling.
Last night after 10, there were two blood curdling LOUD screams that sat me up in bed.
It sounded like someone was being attacked.

I finally reported this to the management but by the time he got there they were quiet.
The minute he left, they started up again. .....


It feels like the Camino Francis has become a Circus.
I’m so done.
Ack!
Hola @Anniesantiago I will make an assumption that this was up in the dormotory section! If so I like you being ancient would have told them in very plain english to tone it down or face the consequences. You asked about their adult supervision - were they part of a group and was there actually any adult supervision. Maybe the adults had had enough of their crap over the preceding 5/10/15/30 days and took accommodation elsewhere so as to get a good night's sleep themselves. Cheers
 

Kiwi-family

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Past: (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016)
Future (God-willing): Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo (2018)
#69
I used to be too quick to blame parents. When my kids were little, I still (albeit inwardly) blamed parents for kids’ behaviour. Mine weren’t perfect but they were characterised by an awareness of others and simple courtesy which we encouraged/drilled into them.
Then my kids started growing up. Some of them evidently thought whatever their parents required must certainly be dumb/old fashioned/wrong.....they seemed to think that doing whatever we had taught them made them childish. They wanted to be adults but didn’t understand - in spite of explicit instruction and much example - that we were raising them to maturity.
I have been deeply saddened by some of the things some of my kids have done. I do not condone their behaviour.
I now realise kids grow up and make their own choices, no matter how well-intentioned and prayerful and consistent their parents might have been. Now I am very slow to blame parents for their teens’ behaviour. It’s just possible that they may be grieving as much as I am.
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#70
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households." Supposedly said by Socrates in 430BC, and quoted by Plato. Although there is doubt about the authenticity of the quote, it does seem to be a very old sentiment!
Lol

I thought about Socrates as I was complaining.
 

hel&scott

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2004 St Jean - Santiago, 2008 Seville - Finestere, 2010 Ferrol - Lisbon, 2012 from Cartehenga.
#71
Oh @Kiwi-family how I remember my young nephew moaning about how he couldn't wait to be a grown up and to do just want he wanted... Never laughed so hard. Even at 50 i am still being told what to do and when... Maybe when the rest of my hair goes grey I can finally let it all hang out... Rest easy fellow pilgrims I will still be pasted out early in my bunk!
 

andywild

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
april '2018'
#73
I believe that children are the future.. I think perhaps we should teach them well and let them lead the way! We should show them all the beauty they possess insiiiide... Give them a sense of pride, to make it easier.. and why not let the children's laughter remind us how we used to beeeeee.?
Someone should write a song about that..
 

SEB

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
April (2015) SJPdP to SdC; Porto to SdC April (2016)
#74
Teenagers are often very self absorbed. Their world view is very narrow. They haven't experienced a lot of life and don't always realize or even notice how their behavior affects others. I wonder what would have happened if someone had approached them and reminded them that people are tired and trying to rest and just how annoying slamming doors can be from the other side. Of course their parents should have taught them to be considerate. But reminders from fellow pilgrims can't hurt. Sometimes it takes a village...
You make a good point @Ahhhs and things always look better after a good sleep following a long trek. The group I encountered at San Martin were from Ireland and had cycled from Madrid to SdC. Along the way one of them had been injured in a minor accident en route and had to travel the rest of the way in the back-up vehicle. I met the group leader the next morning at breakfast when we exchanged frank opinions as to the disruption the previous night. In the evening many of the boys were in the downstairs communal area chatting, playing with I-phones etc. and I met the one who had been injured and we got into conversation about what had happened to him and the journey from Madrid. One of the party said to 'You're the woman who complained about us aren't you?' and I explained why I might have seemed to be a grumpy old woman but that I had especially hoped for some peace there at San Martin. This was because of sleep being made impossible at two albergues along the CP when people were partying in early hours and then returning to the dormitory to make up their beds around 2.a.m.. I congratulated them on their achievements and wished them a safe journey home, and at breakfast the next morning the group leader came up to say that they boys had reported our meeting back to them. Meanwhile my fellow pilgrim from Amsterdam whose room was at the other end of the corridor was being driven to distraction by another group who had brought chairs out of their rooms so they could establish an impromptu communal space outside her room where they shrieked and shouted all night.:mad:
San Martin Pinario is a beautiful place - I felt privileged to be able to stay there and thank you to @mspath for highlighting it on this forum. The rooms are basic but with ensuite facilities, which as we all know is an absolute luxury after weeks of albergues and shared bathrooms. The food is excellent and the communal meeting space and bar is very conducive to meeting up with other pilgrims. BUT the top floor, where the rooms for pilgrims are situated, has surfaces that amplify sound along the corridors and the doors, as I said earlier, have no restrictors, so they tend to slam shut. Even with a Trappist-inclined group of young people in residence, there is bound to be more ambient noise here than in other places which are carpeted and with slow-shut door mechanisms.
 

Redhead Keith

Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francé 2005; 2016
Inglés June 2017
del Salvador Sep 2018
Primitivo Oct 2018
#75
I’ve said this for 4 years but it’s time.
I’m too old and crotchety for the Camino.
It’s true.
I am out of patience - I guess I just need to become a hermit.

I’m now at San Martin Pinario in the pilgrim rooms.

I feel sorry for any weary pilgrims here.

There is a group of about 15 southern American teens here who have been crazy out of control.
Whoever is supposed to be Supervising them is either deaf or absent.

All day and into the night they run room to room, yelling and SLAMMING doors.
They are laying in the halls, chasing each other, yelling.
Last night after 10, there were two blood curdling LOUD screams that sat me up in bed.
It sounded like someone was being attacked.

I finally reported this to the management but by the time he got there they were quiet.
The minute he left, they started up again.

WTF are the adults???

I’ve never seen such a rude, obnoxious bunch.

These are not pilgrims.
They act like rotten, spoiled brats who should have stayed home.

It feels like the Camino Francis has become a Circus.
I’m so done.
Ack!
You're there: You were once a teenager - remember those halcyon days with a smile when you try to sleep: Be brave: Pray for Karma: Not all teenagers are the same: Its not just S. American teenagers: I've come across similar adult groups too. Be Brave, be very very brave - and patient and cool
 

Robo

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
Alone.
------------------------------
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
with my wife Pat.
------------------------------
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
together again :-)
#76
We had a nice meal at San Martin recently, but sadly it sounds like a place to be avoided in terms of accomodation.... :rolleyes:
 

SEB

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
April (2015) SJPdP to SdC; Porto to SdC April (2016)
#77
We had a nice meal at San Martin recently, but sadly it sounds like a place to be avoided in terms of accomodation.... :rolleyes:
@Robo please don't strike it from your list. Give it a try as lots of others pilgrims have stayed there without any problems and being across from the cathedral and able to look over the ancient rooftops of SdC from your room is an absolute joy. Next time - if there is a next time - I will make sure I have effective ear plugs.:D
 

Bob P

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
First timer, leaving April 3rd from SJPDP
#78
I had a mostly great trip from SJPDP to Finisterre. I traveled mostly with a younger crowd (I'm 60, so that's a large range) and American teens were NOT the ruin of 3 bad nights. As wad said above, lack of manners knows no age. But all 3 nights I had trouble were all from the same country, in Europe, and known for their obnoxiousness. All different ages, all same country. So, if there is a place on this forum to attack groups for their lack of manners,,, where shall I post?

I confronted them about their noise in sleeping areas. Two groups took their noise to common area and called me names I could not understand. One group remained obnoxious, hassled me repeatedly and almost made me mad enough to fight. Although one Texan against 4 others might look good oin the movies, I plugged in my earphones and drowned out their noise so I could sleep.
Wait,,, we're not supposed to attack ethnic groups, but this title has remained posted long enough to be monitored and it is attacking "American Teens". Why?
 

Robo

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
Alone.
------------------------------
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
with my wife Pat.
------------------------------
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
together again :-)
#79
I’m intrigued......

country, in Europe, and known for their obnoxiousness.

Even having lived there for 40 years, I didn’t know a specific country carried this honour ;););)

I tend to agree that the Nationality of the Teens is probably not relevant...:rolleyes:
And is probably not of any interest to readers......
 

philip a tobin

irish scouse
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
2013....2014....2015.......2017...2018
#80
Dear @Anniesantiago
You might be grouchy but the adults need to do their job.
I used to think the Camino really shouldn’t be done as a school group....until the year we met a group in Santiago who had “just” walked from Sarria. Their leaders had ensured those kids had a real pilgrim experience - they did things like ban phones while walking, insist on silence for the first two hours, require an interview with a foreigner and a Spaniard.....they wrote journals, created art work, had daily feedback sessions, had a guest lecturer from the cathedral. We spent a couple of days staying at the same place and they dragged us along to dinner and the feedback meetings and soccer games with them. I was blown away talking with the teachers who had combined from three different schools to make this happen. They were so organised - even had shower rosters! The kids were jubilant, yet polite. I must admit I am not easily impressed (also slow to take offence) but I was stunned. Most of this group of nearly 100 kids were 15-16. I wish you could have met them.
I’ve said this for 4 years but it’s time.
I’m too old and crotchety for the Camino.
It’s true.
I am out of patience - I guess I just need to become a hermit.

I’m now at San Martin Pinario in the pilgrim rooms.qqq

I feel sorry for any weary pilgrims here.

There is a group of about 15 southern American teens here who have been crazy out of control.
Whoever is supposed to be Supervising them is either deaf or absent.

All day and into the night they run room to room, yelling and SLAMMING doors.
They are layin
I’m intrigued......

country, in Europe, and known for their obnoxiousness.

Even having lived there for 40 years, I didn’t know a specific country carried this honour ;););)

I tend to agree that the Nationality of the Teens is probably not relevant...:rolleyes:
And is probably not of any interest to readers......
In defence of American teenagers I have to go back to my first Camino in 2013.I Met up with a group of U.S teens who were accompanied by 4 or 5 parents.Each morning they would be given their day's destination and off they went.The parents set off later.At the end of the day they all met up and over a communal meal exchanged tales of their day.I joined them on several occasions and even finished in Santiago about an hour behind them,where I told them and their parents that they could be proud of their achievement and that they were a credit to their parents and nation.
 

C clearly

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
#81
We had a nice meal at San Martin recently, but sadly it sounds like a place to be avoided in terms of accomodation.... :rolleyes:
Absolutely not! That is a very unfortunate conclusion. I love its simplicity, beauty and grandeur after a Camino, and will continue to choose it. Just maybe not in the busy season.
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#82
I had a mostly great trip from SJPDP to Finisterre. I traveled mostly with a younger crowd (I'm 60, so that's a large range) and American teens were NOT the ruin of 3 bad nights. As wad said above, lack of manners knows no age. But all 3 nights I had trouble were all from the same country, in Europe, and known for their obnoxiousness. All different ages, all same country. So, if there is a place on this forum to attack groups for their lack of manners,,, where shall I post?

I confronted them about their noise in sleeping areas. Two groups took their noise to common area and called me names I could not understand. One group remained obnoxious, hassled me repeatedly and almost made me mad enough to fight. Although one Texan against 4 others might look good oin the movies, I plugged in my earphones and drowned out their noise so I could sleep.
Wait,,, we're not supposed to attack ethnic groups, but this title has remained posted long enough to be monitored and it is attacking "American Teens". Why?
Ummmm... because it was American teens who kept me up all night for two nights and I felt like venting? Lol.
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(x3), VdlP, Jerusalem, VF, Walsingham.
2018? CF, again :-)
#83
We had a nice meal at San Martin recently, but sadly it sounds like a place to be avoided in terms of accomodation.... :rolleyes:
I love it but couldn’t find a place this year :-( First time.
 

LTfit

Veteran Member
Donating Member
#84
Oh @Anniesantiago i feel your pain, us grumpy old ladies need to stay off the CF, that said we've all experienced odd behaviour on other routes from a range of age and countries... And I am sure their are stories circulating out there about us.

@Tincatinker , Chuck Berry, really, you are showing your age.
Given my age I guess that I belong to the "old lady" category but I got into Santiago yesterday after walking the Camino de Madrid followed by the Francés and I had a surprisingly positive experience. My last time on this part of the Francés was in summer of 2010 where it was a madhouse from Sarria on.

The "masses" of pilgrims reported recently on the Forum and a rush for beds was totally absent. My theory is that everyone is so worried that they book rooms in advance leaving the municipals for people like me. The other day in Sarria the municipal was only half full at 6 p.m. And this was on a Friday night!

Back to San Martin Pinario - this is unfortunate @Anniesantiago (how long are you still in Santiago?) as I have stayed there on several occasions and was very pleased with both the accommodations and location.

And as far as teenagers go - I passed several Spanish groups and they were very polite.
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(x3), VdlP, Jerusalem, VF, Walsingham.
2018? CF, again :-)
#85
The "masses" of pilgrims reported recently on the Forum and a rush for beds was totally absent. My theory is that everyone is so worried that they book rooms in advance leaving the municipals for people like me. The other day in Sarria the municipal was only half full at 6 p.m. And this was on a Friday night!
.
Oh I am so glad to read your post. I haven’t encountered those ‘masses’ either - in fact the last time (2016) , like you, I found lots of the albergues were empty!!!
I am walking my fourth camino francés this Summer and had started getting slightly worried :D
Glad you enjoyed it :)
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#86
Given my age I guess that I belong to the "old lady" category but I got into Santiago yesterday after walking the Camino de Madrid followed by the Francés and I had a surprisingly positive experience. My last time on this part of the Francés was in summer of 2010 where it was a madhouse from Sarria on.

The "masses" of pilgrims reported recently on the Forum and a rush for beds was totally absent. My theory is that everyone is so worried that they book rooms in advance leaving the municipals for people like me. The other day in Sarria the municipal was only half full at 6 p.m. And this was on a Friday night!

Back to San Martin Pinario - this is unfortunate @Anniesantiago (how long are you still in Santiago?) as I have stayed there on several occasions and was very pleased with both the accommodations and location.

And as far as teenagers go - I passed several Spanish groups and they were very polite.
I left Santiago this morning. I’m in Madrid. Flying out tomorrow.
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#87
Oh I am so glad to read your post. I haven’t encountered those ‘masses’ either - in fact the last time (2016) , like you, I found lots of the albergues were empty!!!
I am walking my fourth camino francés this Summer and had started getting slightly worried :D
Glad you enjoyed it :)

Yeah, it was pretty quiet for us from Sarria. I was pleasantly surprised and Sarria was like a ghost town.
Two weekends ago however, Santiago was a zoo. I expected it to be that way for Saint John the Baptist fiesta but it was worse two weeks earlier.
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(x3), VdlP, Jerusalem, VF, Walsingham.
2018? CF, again :-)
#89
Yeah, it was pretty quiet for us from Sarria. I was pleasantly surprised and Sarria was like a ghost town.
Two weekends ago however, Santiago was a zoo. I expected it to be that way for Saint John the Baptist fiesta but it was worse two weeks earlier.
Haha, I had the ‘zoo’ here in Alicante as St John is the patron Saint and it was the week of the ‘Fogueres’. Over a million visitors o_O
 

omar504

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016,2017,2018
#90
Ive said before that the cf is overcrowded and overrated. What do people expect when there are around 300,000 on the cf?
Last year i walked the sureste and levante and saw 4 pilgrims...bliss!
Somebody suggested the vdlp...please ignore this as this route should be reserved for adults...not screaming ignorant kids
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(x3), VdlP, Jerusalem, VF, Walsingham.
2018? CF, again :-)
#91
Ive said before that the cf is overcrowded and overrated. What do people expect when there are around 300,000 on the cf?
Last year i walked the sureste and levante and saw 4 pilgrims...bliss!
Somebody suggested the vdlp...please ignore this as this route should be reserved for adults...not screaming ignorant kids
Overcrowded.... probably, although myself I never found it so, maybe I have been lucky.... (famous last words come to mind!)
Overrated....never! It IS magical :cool:
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times, but soon again I hope....
#92
I had a mostly great trip from SJPDP to Finisterre. I traveled mostly with a younger crowd (I'm 60, so that's a large range) and American teens were NOT the ruin of 3 bad nights. As wad said above, lack of manners knows no age. But all 3 nights I had trouble were all from the same country, in Europe, and known for their obnoxiousness. All different ages, all same country. So, if there is a place on this forum to attack groups for their lack of manners,,, where shall I post?

I confronted them about their noise in sleeping areas. Two groups took their noise to common area and called me names I could not understand. One group remained obnoxious, hassled me repeatedly and almost made me mad enough to fight. Although one Texan against 4 others might look good oin the movies, I plugged in my earphones and drowned out their noise so I could sleep.
Wait,,, we're not supposed to attack ethnic groups, but this title has remained posted long enough to be monitored and it is attacking "American Teens". Why?
Yes, agreed. As the uncle to American teenagers I find the title to the thread to be inappropriate and offensive. I have no idea why the moderators have allowed it to be posted in the first place and to stay posted.
Would it been allowed to be posted and/or remain if it was titled with the words "Aussie teens", "German teens", "Spanish teens","Italian teens" etc etc etc....
This is a nice forum and assists many people who need legitimate assistance to plan and walk the Camino, but threads targeting ethnicity, country, religion, creed etc have no place here. Double standards certainly have no place here, either.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Anniesantiago

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Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#93
Yes, agreed. As the uncle to American teenagers I find the title to the thread to be inappropriate and offensive. I have no idea why the monitors/coppers on this forum who lurk about have allowed it to be posted in the first place and to stay posted.
Would it been allowed to be posted and/or remain if it was titled with the words "Aussie teens", "German teens", "Spanish teens","Italian teens" etc etc etc....
This is a nice forum and assists many people who need legitimate assistance to plan and walk the Camino, but threads targeting ethnicity, country, religion, creed etc have no place here. Double standards certainly have no place here, either.
I’m an American.
I live in Portland, Oregon.
I have teenager grandchildren.

They were American teens.
The truth may hurt, but it is the truth.
I was ashamed of their behavior!
 

C clearly

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
#94
I’m an American.
I live in Portland, Oregon.
I have teenager grandchildren.
They were American teens.
The truth may hurt, but it is the truth.
I was ashamed of their behavior!
I think that when we travel, we are more upset by bad behaviour of our compatriots that we are by bad behaviour of others. Most nationalities have some characteristics that can be annoying or worse - and that includes Canadians as well as Americans. It isn't necessary to emphasis the nationality when we lament bad behaviour - it doesn't really help anyone.
 

Robo

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
Alone.
------------------------------
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
with my wife Pat.
------------------------------
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
together again :-)
#96
Well let's not just pick on the Americans! ;)

What about the Spanish? :eek:
Loud music whilst walking, huge hoards of noisy kids, noisy in the Hotels till well past midnight! Me thumping on the wall trying to get some sleep........

Oh, but I guess it's their country :oops::oops:

And as @SYates was quick to point out to me over a cup of tea recently...........

What! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black............You're Australian Rob :(:(
ooops. We're not the quietest on the Planet.....

It's probably a bit unfair to pick on certain nationalities........ we all have our share of idiots! ;)
 

grayland

Moderator
Staff member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Yes
#97
I’m an American.
I live in Portland, Oregon.
I have teenager grandchildren.

They were American teens.
The truth may hurt, but it is the truth.
I was ashamed of their behavior!
For those fellow Americans who are offended by the OP (Anniesantiago)....please take note that Annie is an American. She is not posting about other ethic/national groups.
 

Aurigny

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés, 2016; Português Central, 2017; Português Interior, 2017; Primitivo, 2018.
#98
I'll see K's Socrates quotation, and raise her a Shakespeare (from A Winter's Tale, act III, scene 3):-

I would there were no age between sixteen and three-and-twenty, or that youth would sleep out the rest; for there is nothing in the between but getting wenches with child, wronging the ancientry, stealing, fighting...
As I slowly but inexorably approach the period of life when I can be classified among the ancientry (a while yet, thank God, but visibly on the horizon), this one appeals to me more and more. Yet like other commenters on this thread, if there were a distinct cohort that at times I would cheerfully put up against the wall, it is people much closer in age to myself, returning, half-cut, from boozy dinners at albergue closing-time and spending half the rest of the night crinkling their plastic bags and sending and receiving texts and e-mails -- complete with aethereal screen-glow and electronic beeps as each message is dispatched or received -- on their incomprehensibly expensive mobile 'phones.

I have thought the most uncharitable sentiments possible -- and occasionally have given verbal expression to them -- when confronted with anti-social behaviour of this kind from all age-groups. I sympathise most deeply with Anniesantiago's experience, which goes beyond the loss of a night's sleep. It's demoralising also, because it stands as evidence that a rare privilege is being not just lost, but spurned, by the people who ought to be benefiting from it. If a pilgrimage, one of the most effective means in existence of inducing reflection and liberation from self-absorption, is making not the slightest impression on them, what will?

Yet I agree that one of the purposes of going on pilgrimage for ourselves is to develop, or at any rate increase just a little, a sense of forbearance for the failings, deficiencies and even selfishnesses of those around us, especially bearing in mind our own past and present limitations in that department. I frankly acknowledge that that's a great deal easier for me to say from my comfortable office chair, with a warm, peaceful and above all quiet bed awaiting me, than at the closing stages of a long pilgrimage, when one is soaked in fatigue and even one's hair hurts.

My daughter, who is eleven years of age, did the first 135 km of the Francés a couple of years ago. If she ever wants to go back and finish the entire thing, I'll be there with her. Otherwise, wild horses couldn't drag me back there in high summer. If I were ever to walk it again, I think I'd be prepared to do so only in wintertime, for precisely the reasons discussed in this thread.
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times, but soon again I hope....
#99
For those fellow Americans who are offended by the OP (Anniesantiago)....please take note that Annie is an American. She is not posting about other ethic/national groups.
Her nationality has nothing to do whether or not the title to the thread was offensive or not. With that logic you are saying it is okay to rant and insult an ethnic group as long as you are a member of that group? Flawed logic methinks or a poor attempt to excuse offensive behaviour.
 

andywild

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
april '2018'
Due to today's culture of people having the right to be outraged at any comment I feel posts should now be less specific..
Don't mention the origin of said offenders.
Also don't mention the age
Or the sex
Or how many there were (we don't want to be derogatory toward 'groups' as opposed to pilgrims walking alone.. )
It's probably best we don't mention where it happened due to shedding a negative light on said location..
Let's just agree that something happened somewhere.. and Annie Santiago was slightly miffed but not in a way that in any way lessens the importance of any other miffed people in any location.
There, we can all be friends again now.. that's if everyone feels comfortable with being classed as a friend. I apologise for my friendliness if anyone is offended.
 
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