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Teens - I’m Disheartened and Grouchy

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Camino(s) past & future
April (2015) SJPdP to SdC; Porto to SdC April (2016)
Due to today's culture of people having the right to be outraged at any comment I feel posts should now be less specific..
Don't mention the origin of said offenders.
Also don't mention the age
Or the sex
Or how many there were (we don't want to be derogatory toward 'groups' as opposed to pilgrims walking alone.. )
It's probably best we don't mention where it happened due to shedding a negative light on said location..
Let's just agree that something happened somewhere.. and Annie Santiago was slightly miffed but not in a way that in any way lessens the importance of any other miffed people in any location.
There, we can all be friends again now.. that's if everyone feels comfortable with being classed as a friend. I apologise for my friendliness if anyone is offended.
I’m offended @andywild please ‘unfriend’ me -
 

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Camino(s) past & future
Francé 2005; 2016
Inglés June 2017
del Salvador Sep 2018
Primitivo Oct 2018
Due to today's culture of people having the right to be outraged at any comment I feel posts should now be less specific..
Don't mention the origin of said offenders.
Also don't mention the age
Or the sex
Or how many there were (we don't want to be derogatory toward 'groups' as opposed to pilgrims walking alone.. )
It's probably best we don't mention where it happened due to shedding a negative light on said location..
Let's just agree that something happened somewhere.. and Annie Santiago was slightly miffed but not in a way that in any way lessens the importance of any other miffed people in any location.
There, we can all be friends again now.. that's if everyone feels comfortable with being classed as a friend. I apologise for my friendliness if anyone is offended.
I agree AndyWild - but I wish to support AnieSantiago a bit here, in a friendly way: when we are tired and perhaps agitated by something, we all say and think things that are not as PC as they should be in a public forum. I'm forever correcting myself - my thoughts and opinions, not to judge others, the Big Man tells us to do this in his Book of James - which is why we're on Camino, to better ourselves, hopefully, overcome our grievances, challenges, learn, our sadness, etc. etc. Lets all cut AnnieSantiago some slack here (this comes from a sometimes very grumpy and world-weary old man). She lost a lot of sleep at the end of a long Camino - the basis of Annie's agitation would be a problem to most of us, its just the finger-pointing that could be a bit less indiscreet(?) I hate ethnic and social profiling, it happens to me all the time where I live, in both subtle and direct ways, and comes from people who do not know much except what the politicians and their tabloid chums preach to everyone on the news or in their comic-newspapers. And we come from an era which was loaded with the most despicable prejudices. Thank goodness we have progressed from those times, although many world politicians are doing their best to set us back to some very bad old times. There, that's my rant for the day done. No offence to anyone intended with this, just a little peace and understanding (you could write a song about that). LLN Keith
 

andywild

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
april '2018'
I agree AndyWild - but I wish to support AnieSantiago a bit here, in a friendly way: when we are tired and perhaps agitated by something, we all say and think things that are not as PC as they should be in a public forum. I'm forever correcting myself - my thoughts and opinions, not to judge others, the Big Man tells us to do this in his Book of James - which is why we're on Camino, to better ourselves, hopefully, overcome our grievances, challenges, learn, our sadness, etc. etc. Lets all cut AnnieSantiago some slack here (this comes from a sometimes very grumpy and world-weary old man). She lost a lot of sleep at the end of a long Camino - the basis of Annie's agitation would be a problem to most of us, its just the finger-pointing that could be a bit less indiscreet(?) I hate ethnic and social profiling, it happens to me all the time where I live, in both subtle and direct ways, and comes from people who do not know much except what the politicians and their tabloid chums preach to everyone on the news or in their comic-newspapers. And we come from an era which was loaded with the most despicable prejudices. Thank goodness we have progressed from those times, although many world politicians are doing their best to set us back to some very bad old times. There, that's my rant for the day done. No offence to anyone intended with this, just a little peace and understanding (you could write a song about that). LLN Keith
I don't consider Annie to have done anything wrong.. she gave a few basic facts and in no way said that the reason for their behaviour was because of said facts.. I was just pointing out how bizarre a post would be if you weren't able to add any details relevant or not.. I'm all for people being outraged but it amuses me when people are outraged because they misinterpret a perfectly valid statement.. twisting it (intentionally or not) to suit one's outrage is becoming far too commonplace. Anyway let's change the subject, have you seen the price of raisins? Outrageous!!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Francé 2005; 2016
Inglés June 2017
del Salvador Sep 2018
Primitivo Oct 2018

ManyMiles2Go

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2013)
I’m an American.
I live in Portland, Oregon.
I have teenager grandchildren.

They were American teens.
The truth may hurt, but it is the truth.
I was ashamed of their behavior!
Annie, are you sure they were not just gnomes dressed up like American teens (just to give us Americans a bad name?) Don't laugh, I've seen this happen before. . . . wait, I have to go, my meds are coming. . .
 

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Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2006) portugues(2013)San Salvador (2017)
Due to today's culture of people having the right to be outraged at any comment I feel posts should now be less specific..
Don't mention the origin of said offenders.
Also don't mention the age
Or the sex
Or how many there were (we don't want to be derogatory toward 'groups' as opposed to pilgrims walking alone.. )
It's probably best we don't mention where it happened due to shedding a negative light on said location..
Let's just agree that something happened somewhere.. and Annie Santiago was slightly miffed but not in a way that in any way lessens the importance of any other miffed people in any location.
There, we can all be friends again now.. that's if everyone feels comfortable with being classed as a friend. I apologise for my friendliness if anyone is offended.
Andy, there you go again. Such good humour. I hope your mother is around to be able to smile widely at her wonderful son!
 
Camino(s) past & future
All that we are is the result of what we have thought.
Her nationality has nothing to do whether or not the title to the thread was offensive or not. With that logic you are saying it is okay to rant and insult an ethnic group as long as you are a member of that group? Flawed logic methinks or a poor attempt to excuse offensive behaviour.
The truth can come hard .
 
Camino(s) past & future
2005 Frances
2006 LePuy to SJpdP
2007 Frances
2008 Toulsana to Santiago
2010 Frances
2010 Vezelay + Via de la Plata
2013 LePuy to Santiago
2015 RL Stevenson GR70
2016 Leon to Santiago
I think any large group is inherently worse behaved than its individual members. I spent years as a Boy Scout leader--and one of our roles was to instruct teenage boys on what was appropriate (and safe) behavior. But we always had a pre-defined and (mostly) pre-agreed set of ground-rules (i.e. Scout Oath and Scout Law) to refer to. There is no such pre-agreement on the Camino whether it be about littering, toilet waste, early leaving albergue, window open/close, dorm noise, bright headlamps, shout 'bicycle left" at least 10 seconds before passing a walker, putting a pack on the one chair needed by 8 people, etc etc etc. I wish that to obtain a credencial, there were a list of rules we each need to follow for a low stress communal experience. A lot of the camino experience is about lessons-- which includes learning what you can and what you cannot control. That--and our expectations. My mantra is "My suffering or happiness is created through my relationship to experience, not by experience itself." And it is sorely tested when the CF gets crowded and rowdy at end stages and the last 100km. But my success in keeping realistic low expectation and being non-judging makes MY CAMINO BETTER.
 

MikeyC

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF - September 2016
CF - April May 2017
Shikoku - October 2017
Kumano Kodo - October 2017
Alhartman.
I think you hit the nail on the head there. A few moons ago I taught Management Studies to foreign students. In the first class of the term one of the activities was for the students to draw up a set of class rules that they would abide by. This list was posted on the wall and a quick reminder during the course of the term was sufficient to maintain suitable behaviour.
A set of expected pilgrim behaviours in the passport or basic hostel rules at check in or on the dorm wall or door might help. If I were a hospitalero I would draw these to pilgrims’ attention and ask if they had any problem with them. At least miscreants couldn’t subsequently plead ignorance.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
I think that when we travel, we are more upset by bad behaviour of our compatriots that we are by bad behaviour of others. Most nationalities have some characteristics that can be annoying or worse - and that includes Canadians as well as Americans. It isn't necessary to emphasis the nationality when we lament bad behaviour - it doesn't really help anyone.
It helps ME
 
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
Due to today's culture of people having the right to be outraged at any comment I feel posts should now be less specific..
Don't mention the origin of said offenders.
Also don't mention the age
Or the sex
Or how many there were (we don't want to be derogatory toward 'groups' as opposed to pilgrims walking alone.. )
It's probably best we don't mention where it happened due to shedding a negative light on said location..
Let's just agree that something happened somewhere.. and Annie Santiago was slightly miffed but not in a way that in any way lessens the importance of any other miffed people in any location.
There, we can all be friends again now.. that's if everyone feels comfortable with being classed as a friend. I apologise for my friendliness if anyone is offended.
Right?
My sentiments exactly.
Just delete the thread.

I’m so weary of having to be politically correct.
How DARE I complain about a group of out of control fellow country-people!
How dare I put a face on the bad behavior!
Instead I guess I should say ALL teens are rotten instead of this specific group.
But wait!
That’s not true!
They were AMERICAN teens.
I feel like CNN news being monitored.
Do not report the facts.
You may offend someone.
Just sanitize it so everyone will be happy.
Sorry, but that’s not honest, in my opinion.

Just delete the thread please.
I think I better take a break.
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015 SJPD to Burgos
2017 Leon to Santiago
Pamplona to Santiago Mar. 2018
Burgos - SCDC (Oct 18)
Sorry Annie for the discomfort you endured!


I do not think having a discussion about the nationality of a group is a productive one! I am an American..and I was NOT offended by Annie’s comment, because, I have read many comments she has made and one gets a sense of someone after numerous comments. However, it is harder to focus on the broader issue of rudeness and disruption by groups in accommodations when focus becomes the nationality!

I do think when groups are out of control, we should NOT grin and bear it all night! I commend Peter for holding the supervisors responsible! I have supervised overnight groups of foreign students and Americans on excursions and lights were out at 11pm and rooms quiet or the students were never allowed to participate again. I would also suggest that if the adult supervisors do not control their group to ask for the identity of the sponsors of the group and write to the organization!
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
This simple facts as reported were fine. I have no objection to saying what nationality the people were. It is one more piece of information to communicate the "picture." I agree that we sometimes get too caught up with political correctness and people should not take offense as a default reaction! However, perhaps putting the nationality in the thread title emphasized it too much, as if that were the most important fact. Then, predictably the discussion went on to make generalizations about educational systems, child raising and the history of the world, that we could all argue about. :rolleyes::eek:
 

Bogong

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
First, March 2014
I shudder to add to such an extraordinarily long post. But in my winter walk I met a German pilgrim who had previously walked in the European summer holiday period. He said from Sarria on there were many Spanish of all ages and there were noisy parties going on virtually all day and night. He described it as like a non-stop Bacchanalian orgy. He was propositioned a number of times by girls young enough to be his granddaughters and as he was almost as old as me still recoiled in terror and trauma at the memory.

Perhaps what is a nightmare for us is just as much a celebration for others. Seems a good reason to walk in the off season.

De Colores

Bogong
 
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