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2019 Camino Guides

That silly 10% rule

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#1
Several times I've been given to wonder where this rule that you should have your backpack weighing 10% of your bodyweight actually came from. What's more, why do so many people keep repeating it without even thinking about it? It's become a bit like one of those urban myths that people look up on snopes.com!

Basically my gripe is that it only applies if you're a reasonably tall male of about 75-80 kilos. Then nice - you get to carry a backpack of optimum weight 7.5-8 kilos. But stray too far from this figure and the results make no sense. Would you really tell a short slim woman of 45 kilos to only bring 4.5 kilos with her on the Camino? That wouldn't get her much further than her backpack, a sleeping bag and a pair of crocs! Likewise, I've met plenty of taller strong guys happily carrying 10 or 11 kilos with them who weigh nothing close to 100-110 kg. In fact, if they did, they'd be struggling a lot more!

So where did this strange rule come from and why does everyone keep repeating it?!
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#2
Would you really tell a short slim woman of 45 kilos to only bring 4.5 kilos with her on the Camino? That wouldn't get her much further than her backpack, a sleeping bag and a pair of crocs!
That rule came about, in different variations, when the choices for equipment and clothing were much heavier than today's offerings.

My backpack weight is an offshoot of years of long distance wilderness backpacking. My Camino backpack weight sits at around 4.3 kilos. I have shirts, socks, walking shorts, sleeping quilt, etc. It also includes a 2 liter water reservoir that is usually only filled with 1 liter at a time.

The reason one can have a lightweight load is not only due to changes in the technology of clothes and gear, but also because one is only walking from town to town, village to village. There is no need to carry a lot of stuff; you can buy what is needed along the way.

A lot of folks pack for the "what ifs" and they pack their fears. It takes experience and knowledge to have a truly light load. And for the novice and less experienced, this forum for advice.

A lighter load means that one can more comfortably walk, are less exhausted over the long haul, are less prone to injury, and are better able to "smell the roses". :)
 
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Anamya

Keeping it simple
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015)
Camino Portugues (2017)
Lebaniego (Planning)
#3
I don't know the origin, but I've heard it since I was a kid going to school. Would be curious to find out.

BTW, I'm a small 54kg girl who walked the camino just fine with a 5kg backpack that contained everything I needed: clothes, sleeping liner, toiletries, etc, etc. So, it is doable, but I admit I'm VERY practical and carry nothing more than essentials.

People should carry whatever they are fit/comfortable to do. :)
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#4
I'm impressed that both of you managed to get your load down so low. I'm using quite a heavy backpack and sleeping bag. Together that's already over 3kg. Add in a gore-tex jacket, some evening shoes, clothes, water bladder, toiletries... the toiletries are almost a kilo! ... shampoo, conditioner, soap, contact lens solution, foot cream, toothpaste...

My lightest practical load doesn't come in much under 7kg. To get it lower I'd have to leave things out or start spending lots of money on pro ultralight equiment, I guess.
 
Camino(s) past & future
"2018"
#5
The origin .... I have no idea :oops:. Vets, Mod's, thru-hikers will likely know the answer which I will assume is for a backpacker's personal comfort.

My understanding of the 'rule' is that it CAN be to be used as a guide for those who wish to take it onboard.

Actually I first heard of it when planning a thru-hike PCT & began to read (then got a bit a LOT 'freaked') so decided CF might be a better 'newbie' option .... PCT & AT I hope to do one day ;).
Anyhoo I am one of those 50kg, 5,1" (1.54m) women. Trial & error & more error & I have achieved a base weight - everything excluding water - of 4.4Kg's.
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#6
The origin .... I have no idea :oops:. Vets, Mod's, thru-hikers will likely know the answer which I will assume is for a backpacker's personal comfort.

My understanding of the 'rule' is that it CAN be to be used as a guide for those who wish to take it onboard.

Actually I first heard of it when planning a thru-hike PCT & began to read (then got a bit a LOT 'freaked') so decided CF might be a better 'newbie' option .... PCT & AT I hope to do one day ;).
Anyhoo I am one of those 50kg, 5,1" (1.54m) women. Trial & error & more error & I have achieved a base weight - everything excluding water - of 4.4Kg's.
That's interesting. Would carrying 6 or 7kg be uncomfortable for you?
 
Camino(s) past & future
"2018"
#7
My Camino backpack weight sits at around 4.3 kilos. I have shirts, socks, walking shorts, sleeping quilt, etc. It also includes a 2 liter water reservoir that is usually only filled with 1 liter at a time.
Sheesh & I thought I was doing well. Remembering that hobbits (kiwi girl) that are smallish all have small clothing, shoes, sleeping bags that weigh less than medium & large sizes, esp men's clothing. Ahh but you are a pro & I'm a newbie eager to learn all the tricks ;).
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
#9
Grab a freezer full of ice cream and put on 10% of your body weight. Then hike for a month. Add another 10%, then hike for a month. Do you think there is a difference between 10% and 20%?

It is not a rule, just a recommendation!!
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJPDP-Finisterre X 2, El Norte incompleto
#10
I'm impressed that both of you managed to get your load down so low. I'm using quite a heavy backpack and sleeping bag. Together that's already over 3kg. Add in a gore-tex jacket, some evening shoes, clothes, water bladder, toiletries... the toiletries are almost a kilo! ... shampoo, conditioner, soap, contact lens solution, foot cream, toothpaste...

My lightest practical load doesn't come in much under 7kg. To get it lower I'd have to leave things out or start spending lots of money on pro ultralight equiment, I guess.
Sounds like you need to take a closer look at what you are bringing.
And 10% isn't a "rule", but a rough guideline. I'm a fairly tall woman and weigh about 62 kg, but my pack base weight without water is about 7 kg. I could probably get it down lower, but I'm comfortable with that weight.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances: September 24 - October 31 (2015); February/March (2019)
#11
I used the 10% rule of thumb as a starting point for planning for my first Camino. I’m a big guy, so 10% equates to a 23 pound pack all in. I picked 22 pounds (10 kilos) as the pack weight limit to be conservative. I carried a Nikon camera that weighs in at just over 3 pounds, so I had to count ounces everywhere else. Having never walked 500 miles in one trek, I had no idea exactly how my body would react, so it was helpful to have something to peg as a target for pack weight.

For me, my 22 pound limit worked out well. I will stick with the same limit when I walk in March and April of next year. And yes, I will walk with my Nikon camera again. One area where I’ve shaved weight off my 2015 kit is in my rain gear. The rain jacket and pants I took in 2015 were way too heavy. I’ve shaved several ounces with my new gear.
 

Iriebabel

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances April (2018)
Camino Del Norte for April (2019) possible Primitivo
#12
When one says base weight is that with all the necessities. *must haves* including actual pack weight without items? With items? Is that summer or winter? I’m confused and I don’t mind saying that.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#13
When one says base weight is that with all the necessities. *must haves* including actual pack weight without items? With items? Is that summer or winter? I’m confused and I don’t mind saying that.
1. Base Weight is the pack and non consumable contents. All equipment and clothing needed for the conditions expected during a backpacking trip. It does not include food, water, and fuel. Those are not included in the base weight because they are variable. Since I do not backpack during winter, and only during the three non-winter seasons, that load is the same due to the fact that my backpacking trips occur between 7 and 12,000 feet (2140 to 3660 meters). My clothing and gear cover the potential weather extremes.

2. Total Pack Weight includes the base weight plus the weight of food and fuel and water carried between resupply points. For example, my base weight on my Pacific Crest Trail and Colorado Trail thru-hikes was about 14 pounds. Tent, sleeping quilt, pad, clothing, cooking gear, empty water bladder, etc. With a 7 day food and fuel supply, the total weight increased my load to about 22 - 23 pounds. Of course, each day that weight decreased as the consumables were.. well.. consumed.

3. Total Skin Out Weight includes the total backpack weight, plus the clothing one is wearing.

For Camino, base weight is going to be the most important planning factor. The amount of food carried is pretty minimal compared to backpacking in the wild, and water is constantly consumed and not a big, static load. And unless one is carrying cooking gear, fuel for stoves, as a consumable, is non existent.
 
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Iriebabel

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances April (2018)
Camino Del Norte for April (2019) possible Primitivo
#14
1. Base weight is the pack and non consumable contents. All equipment and clothing needed for the conditions expected during a backpacking trip. It does not include food, water, and fuel. Those are not included in the base weight because they are variable. Since I do not backpack during winter, and only during the three non-winter seasons, that load is the same due to the fact that my backpacking trips occur between 7 and 12,000 feet (2140 to 3660 meters). My clothing and gear cover the potential weather extremes.

2. Total weight includes the base weight plus the weight of food and fuel and water carried between resupply points. For example, my base weight on my Pacific Crest Trail and Colorado Trail thru-hikes was about 14 pounds. Tent, sleeping quilt, pad, clothing, cooking gear, empty water bladder, etc. With a 7 day food and fuel supply, the total weight increased my load to about 22 - 23 pounds. Of course, each day that weight decreased as the consumables were.. well.. consumed.

3. Total skin out weight includes the total backpack weight plus the clothing one is wearing.
Thank you.. this is the way I understood it and this makes sense now but I’m not sure everyone weighs items the same way. Also in terms of long distance walks such as Camino I would think most people dont have an ultra light pack and some winter items would weigh more.. thanks for the clarification.
 
#15
I'm impressed that both of you managed to get your load down so low. I'm using quite a heavy backpack and sleeping bag. Together that's already over 3kg. Add in a gore-tex jacket, some evening shoes, clothes, water bladder, toiletries... the toiletries are almost a kilo! ... shampoo, conditioner, soap, contact lens solution, foot cream, toothpaste...

My lightest practical load doesn't come in much under 7kg. To get it lower I'd have to leave things out or start spending lots of money on pro ultralight equiment, I guess.

In response to you original question, I believe the 10% rule is an old wives' tale. As I am not an old wife, just old and overweight, my packed weight is 5 kg, max.

One solution is to start with everything in the pack now. Once on the Camino, reality will help prioritizing each item being carried. The lowest on the list will be purged, donated, left by the side of the path, sent home. There are many choices.

Not saying this to be harsh. I have been there, damaged myself carrying too much pack and too much me, a total of 122 kg, 10 kg of pack, the rest, me. Far too much, but I felt I could handle it. Wrong. Two years later, I am a bit lighter, so is my pack and I start back at the beginning, SJPdP, in just 6 weeks from now. I have worked hard to prepare, heal, condition and in 6 months last year, I waalked the equivalent of a full CF from SJPdP to Santiago, then on to Muxia and finally to Fisterre.

What do old wives know anyway?
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#16
Thank you.. this is the way I understood it and this makes sense now but I’m not sure everyone weighs items the same way. Also in terms of long distance walks such as Camino I would think some winter weight items would weigh more.. thanks for the clarification
Most of the additional weight for colder weather is not so much in the pack, but what is worn while walking. My Camino load, as light as it is, covers a temperature range, comfortably, from about 30f (-1c) to hot desert conditions. Not that the Camino gets as hot as a high desert; it's just the way my layering system is able to adapt.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#17
In response to you original question, I believe the 10% rule is an old wives' tale. As I am not an old wife, just old and overweight, my packed weight is 5 kg, max.

One solution is to start with everything in the pack now. Once on the Camino, reality will help prioritizing each item being carried. The lowest on the list will be purged, donated, left by the side of the path, sent home. There are many choices.

Not saying this to be harsh. I have been there, damaged myself carrying too much pack and too much me, a total of 122 kg, 10 kg of pack, the rest, me. Far too much, but I felt I could handle it. Wrong. Two years later, I am a bit lighter, so is my pack and I start back at the beginning, SJPdP, in just 6 weeks from now. I have worked hard to prepare, heal, condition and in 6 months last year, I waalked the equivalent of a full CF from SJPdP to Santiago, then on to Muxia and finally to Fisterre.

What do old wives know anyway?
You are an inspiration, Michelle!!! Faith of the soul and heart. I will be with you in spirit and prayer, and am excited to read about your progress and insights this time around. You go, girl. :)
 

Iriebabel

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances April (2018)
Camino Del Norte for April (2019) possible Primitivo
#18
Most of the additional weight for colder weather is not so much in the pack, but what is worn while walking. My Camino load, as light as it is, covers a temperature range, comfortably, from about 30f (-1c) to hot desert conditions. Not that the Camino gets as hot as a high desert; it's just the way my layering system is able to adapt.
Completely agree on the layering. I hike a lot even with bad knees. From Arizona to Colorado and Japan to Norway but usually long day hikes. Aside from 21 years in military carrying a 200 pound patient over your shoulder thru the woods or on a litter or hauling 50 pounds of gear (knees were good then lol ) I have never hiked a really long sustained distance with a pack and bad knees. I am under 8kg leaving in 2 days but that’s with some medical necessities but I’m sure I can find something that doesnt belong lol Knees will hurt either way but it also never hurts to look again and trim the fat in the pack . The fat on the body comes off during the camino I hope. I cannot be defined by my injuries..now let’s do this ! (My new motto) Great explanation and advise as always @MichelleElynHogan and congrats on your progress.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#19
Completely agree on the layering. I hike a lot even with bad knees. From Arizona to Colorado and Japan to Norway but usually long day hikes. Aside from 21 years in military carrying a 200 pound patient over your shoulder thru the woods or on a litter or hauling 50 pounds of gear (knees were good then lol ) I have never hiked a really long sustained distance with a pack and bad knees. I am under 8kg leaving in 2 days but that’s with some medical necessities but I’m sure I can find something that doesnt belong lol Knees will hurt either way but it also never hurts to look again and trim the fat in the pack . The fat on the body comes off during the camino I hope. I cannot be defined by my injuries..now let’s do this ! (My new motto) Great explanation and advise as always @MichelleElynHogan and congrats on your progress.
You will be fine. You will also have ample opportunity to fine-tune your load on-the-fly as you discover that you can do without something, or can do with less. In either case, you can donate to an albergue 'donation' box, or ship things back home thru the post offices along the way. So, don't sweat it, be flexible, and have a great time :)
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times, but soon again I hope....
#20
I'm impressed that both of you managed to get your load down so low. I'm using quite a heavy backpack and sleeping bag. Together that's already over 3kg. Add in a gore-tex jacket, some evening shoes, clothes, water bladder, toiletries... the toiletries are almost a kilo! ... shampoo, conditioner, soap, contact lens solution, foot cream, toothpaste...

My lightest practical load doesn't come in much under 7kg. To get it lower I'd have to leave things out or start spending lots of money on pro ultralight equiment, I guess.
You do not need to buy expensive ultralight equipment to walk the Camino. You can walk it quite handily with budget, low tech equipment. Remember, it is neither hiking nor camping.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
#21
I'm using quite a heavy backpack and sleeping bag. Together that's already over 3kg. Add in a gore-tex jacket, some evening shoes, clothes, water bladder, toiletries... the toiletries are almost a kilo! ... shampoo, conditioner, soap, contact lens solution, foot cream, toothpaste...

My lightest practical load doesn't come in much under 7kg. To get it lower I'd have to leave things out or start spending lots of money on pro ultralight equiment, I guess.
You're not doing too bad at 7kg.

BTW. My wife is a short slim woman, and her pack is only 4.5 kgs ;)
Includes sleeping bag, but not water.

I reckon the 10% is not a bad 'rough' guide.
Bigger, heavier people, have larger heavier clothes etc.
My bag is about 8 kgs......

But we do shop around for lightweight gear.......
 

Iriebabel

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances April (2018)
Camino Del Norte for April (2019) possible Primitivo
#22
You will be fine. You will also have ample opportunity to fine-tune your load on-the-fly as you discover that you can do without something, or can do with less. In either case, you can donate to an albergue 'donation' box, or ship things back home thru the post offices along the way. So, don't sweat it, be flexible, and have a great time :)
Hahah yes I gave the same advise about donation earlier in another thread lol . Or local church always have donation box. yes bending bending yes very flexible..
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#24
You do not need to buy expensive ultralight equipment to walk the Camino. You can walk it quite handily with budget, low tech equipment. Remember, it is neither hiking nor camping.
And as Hank's recent video demonstrated, RJM is on-point when stating that light loads are very achievable on a budget.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#27
It is indeed a silly rule as far as the Camino is concerned, and most pilgrims as well as "the average pilgrim", though it is still applicable in certain particular cases :

Namely, growing children, and younger people who are of "average" height and build and weight. Note that if you're a heavier & taller growing child, you should probably ignore it. But it's still a good rule of thumb for family hikes with children of varying ages, to ensure none of them is carrying too much weight.

Also it's not so much a rule about how much your pack should weigh, but rather what it should not weigh more than.

A pack that did weigh 10% of my own weight would be massively heavy !!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
St Olav/Francés ('16)
Baztanés/Francés ('17)
Ingles ('18)
#28
What do old wives know anyway?
Nothing, in this case.
I do wonder, reading your post, if in fact those of us who are not sylphs should actually carry less than those who are lighter? (Apologies to those of you with a hand in the freezer heading for the ice cream to get your weight up and allow you to carry more...)
@davebugg , do you know if anyone has looked to see if there is an optimum max TSOW weight plus body weight (above which there is a much higher risk of injury)?
Edit~ @JabbaPapa and I posted at the same time - his point is apropos to this:
Also it's not so much a rule about how much your pack should weigh, but rather what it should not weigh more than.
A pack that did weigh 10% of my own weight would be massively heavy !!
And....
I cannot be defined by my injuries..now let’s do this !
:):):)
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#29
1. Base Weight is the pack and non consumable contents. All equipment and clothing needed for the conditions expected during a backpacking trip. It does not include food, water, and fuel. Those are not included in the base weight because they are variable. Since I do not backpack during winter, and only during the three non-winter seasons, that load is the same due to the fact that my backpacking trips occur between 7 and 12,000 feet (2140 to 3660 meters). My clothing and gear cover the potential weather extremes.

2. Total Pack Weight includes the base weight plus the weight of food and fuel and water carried between resupply points. For example, my base weight on my Pacific Crest Trail and Colorado Trail thru-hikes was about 14 pounds. Tent, sleeping quilt, pad, clothing, cooking gear, empty water bladder, etc. With a 7 day food and fuel supply, the total weight increased my load to about 22 - 23 pounds. Of course, each day that weight decreased as the consumables were.. well.. consumed.

3. Total Skin Out Weight includes the total backpack weight, plus the clothing one is wearing.

For Camino, base weight is going to be the most important planning factor. The amount of food carried is pretty minimal compared to backpacking in the wild, and water is constantly consumed and not a big, static load. And unless one is carrying cooking gear, fuel for stoves, as a consumable, is non existent.
Interesting information, but even on a very long Camino in Europe, you simply do not need to even think about packing for a wilderness trek.

From what I've read, not even the toughest and longest crest trail in Europe, the Via Alpina, whilst it might possibly be tougher purely in terms of hiking difficulty than the PCT (and I think it's longer), would require it as there are literally hundreds of alpine villages that it winds through, and the alpine shelters are more like gîtes or Camino refugios than like simple walls with roofs to protect oneself from the elements (though these too exist, of course). Plus there are numerous variants all along the way to take you down into nearby valleys and rest places and supply points, and then back up to the path without any need for backtracking nor anything of the sort.

And to make my point clear, the first 1000 K of my '94 Camino from Paris involved no waymarkings, no fixed route, no specific support for pilgrims of any sort until I got quite close to SJPP, and I met not one other pilgrim 'til there -- and a very light pack plus the sleeping bag and a 1 litre capacity bottle for water and a very small amount of cold food in case I needed to rough it that night or couldn't find some village shop to get food in was perfectly sufficient.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#30
So where did this strange rule come from and why does everyone keep repeating it?!
I always thought it's a simplified rule based on experience concerning mountain trips of several days' duration. I always understood it to refer to a trained walker of normal weight, ie someone who is not overweight or obese and, if you want to nitpick, allowing for differences based on muscularity (a highly trained athlete has a higher weight without being overweight in the usual sense).

The problem is not the rule, which is a rule of the thumb, but the fact that people seem to interpret it literally and in a very narrow sense. For example, if you weigh 60 kg and are of normal weight then it it's not worth losing one word about whether your pack weighs 5.5 kg, 6.00 kg or 7 kg. Obviously, lighter is always better.

PS: Mountain trips of several days' duration means trips in mountains with huts and food. And it's obviously a rule of the thumb for beginners who aren't so sure yet how much they can comfortably carry over several days.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#31
normal weight, ie someone who is not overweight or obese
... or taller or shorter than average.

I'm 6'6" to 6'7", and the 10% rule would be ludicrous applied to me, regardless of when I've been fit and trim or ill and overweight. I was a slim 100 kilos when I started at Paris in '94 ; I did NOT carry a 10 kilo pack, nor would I carry a 12 kilo one now ...
 

Anamiri

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances
#32
How much your pack weighs probably depends a lot on the season you walk in. My pack for a summer camino was 6 kgs including water, 2 x 500ml bottles. and to be honest there was stuff I didn't use. So the 10% rule is pretty easy to achieve and fine for that type of walking. The quick dry clothing is light, and no heavier jackets or sleeping bags required. I carried a poncho that I used only one day, and rarely used my sleeping bag.

The Camino infrastructure means you carry only your personal stuff, no tent, cooking apparatus etc.
Hiking in the bush at home is a totally different story. There isn't a cafe every hour, maybe no water either, or first aid. You'll have to provide your own shelter. That kind of hiking takes a lot of packing for. I've seen the pack my cousin's son uses, heading out into remote bush for a 7 - 10 days hiking and hunting. I wouldn't be able to stand up under that load.
 
Camino(s) past & future
French way (June 2018) with Finisterra. Camino Dragonte being considered en route.
#33
I am not a personal fan of these rules. I'd say carry whatever you are comfortable with. Mine is a pip over 11kg. I'm happy with how it feels. It's a far cry from having a 50lb burgen and SA80 slung over you shoulder. I'm 6'1" and my body building days are far behind me. Make rules for your body. We are all different.
 

Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
#34
My main reason for disliking "the 10% rule" is that it leads people into thinking about their packing in a strange way. When packing for any journey the only real question is "do I need this or not?" If the answer is 'yes' then it has to go in the pack. If the answer is 'no' then leave it at home. Once you've decided that something is truly essential then weighing your pack will not change that judgment. If you discover your pack is 12% of your body weight which vital item are you going to abandon? I am in Japan just now - I just finished the 1100km Shikoku pilgrimage and am about to walk a much shorter Kumano Kodo route. I have spent many nights on this walk sleeping outdoors - occasionally in temperatures well below freezing. Knowing this would be the case I have carried a winter weight sleeping bag and warm clothing. I have not weighed my pack but it will be well over 10% of my body weight. There is very little in it which I would consider unnecessary for this particular journey at this particular time. Experience tells me that the weight is manageable. If I was walking the Camino Frances I would probably carry half of my current load as very little would be necessary there. Packing decisions should be made by carefully thinking through what you really need for each individual journey - not based on some arbitrary figure arrived at with the aid of bathroom scales and a calculator.
 

Tia Valeria

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pt Norte/Pmtvo 2010
C. Inglés 2011
C. Primitivo '12
Norte-C. de la Reina '13
C. do Mar-C. Inglés '15
#36
IYes, it is a guide, not a rule. I cannot carry 10% of my body weight, nearly but not quite, and that includes food and water. My husband can carry over 10%. We both find that as we get older we need to carry less.
Skin out is usually given as 15% of body weight.
We decide by carrying the least we can that we actually need and make sure we are comfortable carrying it as though it was a hot day. Clothes on your body feel very different weightwise to clothes in your pack.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino de Santiago, Norte (2016)
Camino Portuguese, Coastal (2018)
#37
I carried 8.6kg. The 10% rule would have had me down to 6.4kg but I couldn't get there. I had no problems with my load and was happy with what I brought along. It's very much personal. Some people have needs that bring up the weight of their pack (contact lenses, prescription medications, etc) or are spending more time in Europe than others. The season one walks is another issue and while layering helps, there are a few things like gloves, scarf, and a long sleeve hiking shirt that one might bring along that wouldn't be necessary if you walked in the summer. The only item of clothing I bought along the way was a pair of leggings to wear with my hiking skort.
 

Iriebabel

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances April (2018)
Camino Del Norte for April (2019) possible Primitivo
#38
Nothing, in this case.
I do wonder, reading your post, if in fact those of us who are not sylphs should actually carry less than those who are lighter? (Apologies to those of you with a hand in the freezer heading for the ice cream to get your weight up and allow you to carry more...)
@davebugg , do you know if anyone has looked to see if there is an optimum max TSOW weight plus body weight (above which there is a much higher risk of injury)?
Edit~ @JabbaPapa and I posted at the same time - his point is apropos to this:


And....

:):):)
Thanks @VNwalking :):):)
I also pondered that same question. When I was young, thin waisted, big headed( my brain shrank I think) lol, broad shouldered ooooooh so many years ago ;) I think I could and did carry a much heavier load. Now that I am older and wider with grumbling joints lol It would make sense to carry less.

Additionally, As @davebugg said above , as one goes along you will pair down what you don’t need versus what you thought you needed. I also think some people may feel comfortable with their own things from home instead of buying along the way and this idea may make them feel they have control maybe. It’s a level of comfort more than just an idea of percentage of weight. I think it’s unavoidable until the person bears that weight for a day or two in real time and answers the age old question “why am I walking the camino”. The average person being away from home ,throwing caution to the wind, being adventurous although on the surface exciting, underneath maybe a feeling of fear of the unknown which drives more things into the pack.

10% may be a good guide as a goal weight, if one was forced to put a number on it, but as some of you have said it may not be practical for everyone. I agree we should access our needs based on practically, situation and physical ability. For me that is under 10%



Fantastic discussion!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Too many caminos to list in the permitted 100 characters!!
#39
So where did this strange rule come from and why does everyone keep repeating it?!
Surely the rule is "... the weight of the backpack should not be more than 10% of your body weight"?
If it works out at LESS than 10% - excellent!
I wish mine only weighed 4 kg!!! But it weighs around 10 kg which is exactly 10% of my body weight. I won't let it get any heavier!
But this is very much a "rule of thumb" and if you're happy carrying more than 10% of your body weight, then that's fine.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF April 2016 April - Jun
Del Norte, Finesterre 2018 May - Jun
#40
Sounds like you need to take a closer look at what you are bringing.
And 10% isn't a "rule", but a rough guideline. I'm a fairly tall woman and weigh about 62 kg, but my pack base weight without water is about 7 kg. I could probably get it down lower, but I'm comfortable with that weight.
The lighter, the better....I'm 60kg and carried 9-10kg last time and didn't my feet know about it! Down to 5-6kg this time and I'm sure my feet will be much happier.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
St Olav/Francés ('16)
Baztanés/Francés ('17)
Ingles ('18)
#41
The average person being away from home ,throwing caution to the wind, being adventurous although on the surface exciting, underneath maybe a feeling of fear of the unknown which drives more things into the pack.
Absolutely.
And the give-away bins in albergues are full of stuff packed like that.:);)
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
#43
The article says in part:
While leading students on extended backpacking trips for Outward Bound, Kansas State University physics professor Michael O'Shea noticed that some of the smaller students could comfortably carry a greater pack weight than the larger ones of similar fitness levels. The explanation, he reasoned, might have something to do with the fact that hikers must haul not only their packs, but also their own body weight.

Decades ago when equipment wasn't as lightweight I hiked a few days on a really tough spot southbound on the Appalachian Trail in the company of two young women who had already hiked 300 miles over the hills and through the bogs of Maine. I had trouble keeping up and this was in the days I did long distance running. One couldn't have weighed any more than 90 pounds (40 kg). I asked about their pack weights. They said that after stocking up at a town the packs were 45 pounds.

A few extra kg may wear you down a little but needn't destroy your camino.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
St Olav/Francés ('16)
Baztanés/Francés ('17)
Ingles ('18)
#44
Sort of what I was wondering, although this doesn't address how that's related to injury. But still, it's clear. The bigger you are, the less you can comfortably carry.
For the math geeks out there, here is the actual paper, and one of the figures:
https://aapt.scitation.org/doi/10.1119/1.4897584
 

Attachments

kdespot

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés SJPP-SdC Sept-Oct 2016
#45
I love this topic because it brings up so many important sub-topics. I truly believe in pre-Camino training and am shocked at how many folks head out on the Camino with little or none. I trained like crazy before my one and only, got my pack down to 10% and when I finally hit the road I found that I could carry way more than 10%. And I did. Started throwing in books, jars of body lotion, large bags of food. Ok, so my story is contrary to the norm, but this brings up another myth... "you can buy anything when you get there". In my experience, soooo not true. Almost any product that might be sold in the ubiquitous farmacias or supermercados, ¡sí! But shops that sell walking gear, shoes, books in English, technology, etc are, with a few exceptions, available only in the cities. And there are only three. And the one or two stores in those cities may not be anywhere near the Camino. And they're closed from 2-4pm, like everything else in Spain. And all day Sunday. My advice is to pack those iffy items. You can always leave them behind.
 

J F Gregory

Portugal Coast - September 2019
Camino(s) past & future
March-April,2016 finished, September 2019 the Portugal Coastal Route
#46
I don't know about the 10% I wear what is comfortable and the lighter the better. My kit fully loaded weighs about 5.5 kg. My old pack empty weighed about 1.5 kg. My new pack weighs about .75 kg.
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJPDP-Finisterre X 2, El Norte incompleto
#47
. I truly believe in pre-Camino training and am shocked at how many folks head out on the Camino with little or none. I trained like crazy before my one and only, got my pack down to 10% and when I finally hit the road I found that I could carry way more than 10%. And I did. Started throwing in books, jars of body lotion, large bags of food
I had a similar experience, except that I only bought small tubes of lotion, and no books or food. :) But I did find that sunscreen alone wasn't moisturizing enough for my parched skin, so I periodically bought small tubes if hand cream. On my second Camino I didn't skimp on packing lotion.
It also makes sense that overweight people can carry less in their backpack since they are already carrying excess weight.
I also think that footwear weight is important as you are lifting it with every step. My lightweight trail runners weigh about 9 ounces each.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#48
@davebugg , do you know if anyone has looked to see if there is an optimum max TSOW weight plus body weight (above which there is a much higher risk of injury)?
I have never seen that exact type of correlational study. As it pertains to backpacking, hiking and walking, I have looked at related studies which do show the risk of orthopedic injury vs fitness level and Body Mass Index (fit and not fit, and being overweight) in general; and a few looking at the number and severity of ankle injuries based on footwear type and activity. We also know that, regardless of the source of the weight --- carrying buckets, lifting stuff, or wearing a pack -- there is pressure placed and concentrated on the lower back.

My rule of thumb: the lighter the pack, the better time I have :) Part of the reason for my back surgeries and knee arthroscopic treatments in the last two decades (did a great job) was due to carrying very heavy loads while backpacking in the late 60s and 70s, and jumping out of aircraft with combat loadouts and then humping them for long days at a time. Back and joint damage can be either cumulative from small amounts of insult over time, or from sudden injury by trying to shift mass or momentum above the ability for the body to adequately handle.

I don't think that the load levels carried on Camino would tend to reach the level of potential injury, even those above the 10 percent rule. But what one carries will affect how well they enjoy walking the Camino, and the risk of much less severe repetitive irritations like raw lower backs, chaffing around the shoulders and neck, and increased aches and pains.
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#49
That study is brilliant and exactly the sort of thing I think should be replacing this very narrowly defined rule of thumb! It's a shortfall of the rule that it doesn't take into account either the sex of the walker nor their percentage body-fat and fitness levels.

I'm also chastised to see there are indeed quite a few women of 50kg who are taking 5kg and less. So much for what I thought was an extreme example! Pound for pound - anecdotally here - it does seem like the women carry more than the men for their weight. On my own caminos I've been overtaken by small and young women with 7kg backpacks who just zip by and never seem to get tired! The study did offer some interesting ideas why that would be so.
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#50
Would any of the 4.5kg crowd mind treating us to a breakdown of the weights of their items?

It is still somehow incomprehensible to me that anyone could get their backpack down so low. Part of me wonders if there must be some hidden compromise here that no-one is mentioning, because I've got everything in a spreadsheet and although I can see I could cut off a couple of hundred grammes here and there, dropping 2 or 3kg is just out of the question without losing some large and useful items. I'm clearly not doing it right! Do you all borrow other peoples chargers and toothpaste or something? ;-)
 

Tincatinker

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Lots ;0)
#52
The Librarian is IN. Students, pedants and those not currently walking might enjoy these previous threads on this topic:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/importance-of-weight.44672/#post-467831
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...2nd-pair-of-boots-the-boot.29171/#post-244943
And for obsessives particularly this post (yes, of mine) that will lead you to hours of joyful contradiction:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...2nd-pair-of-boots-the-boot.29171/#post-244943

Having watched more than one peregrino pesado buckle and weep; having cleaned the camino of ludicrous amounts of equipo descartado; having watched the the happy Belgian pull 1.5kgs of Steve Jobs biography in hard-back from his rucksack every night....

All rules are silly: some rules are sillier than others.
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#53
And for obsessives particularly this post (yes, of mine) that will lead you to hours of joyful contradiction:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...2nd-pair-of-boots-the-boot.29171/#post-244943
.
Good work, Librarian! I think this rule makes a lot more sense in that it relates to your lean body mass, not just how much you weigh.

Now anticipate my post about how I won't be walking this Spring because I injured myself standing on one leg with a backpack on ... ;-)
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances August/Sept 2016
Camino Frances Sept/October 2017
Le Puy to Conques May 2018
#55
....shampoo...conditioner....soap...foot cream......toothpaste....a kilo in toiletries sounds a lot. It's all bit of game really to seem how little you actually need. I would be finding half a cake of soap that you can wash you and your hair and your clothes with, take some toothpaste tablets or squeeze out most of a tube...travel size spray deodorant if you must. My pack sits at 5.5 and hers at 4.5kgs.
 

Morgan Holmes

Every day is a path to walk.
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances to Santiago from SJPDP (2014); Fromistá to Santiago (2018).
#56
Several times I've been given to wonder where this rule that you should have your backpack weighing 10% of your bodyweight actually came from. What's more, why do so many people keep repeating it without even thinking about it? It's become a bit like one of those urban myths that people look up on snopes.com!

Basically my gripe is that it only applies if you're a reasonably tall male of about 75-80 kilos. Then nice - you get to carry a backpack of optimum weight 7.5-8 kilos. But stray too far from this figure and the results make no sense. Would you really tell a short slim woman of 45 kilos to only bring 4.5 kilos with her on the Camino? That wouldn't get her much further than her backpack, a sleeping bag and a pair of crocs! Likewise, I've met plenty of taller strong guys happily carrying 10 or 11 kilos with them who weigh nothing close to 100-110 kg. In fact, if they did, they'd be struggling a lot more!

So where did this strange rule come from and why does everyone keep repeating it?!
Being an academic by training, my first move is always to head to the health journals.
THe 10% rule is over-stated -- 10-15% is more typical in the scholarship.
The reason begins with middle-school and young adults whose spines are actually still developing (maximum bone density does not hit until our mid-20's which is why we can "gain weight" and stay the same clothing size in our 20's). The weight one carries daily can negatively impact spine development when it exceeds 10% (for the fine boned), 15% for those with more density.

For adults, the issue is back pain, especially on the lumbar and sacral spine (but if you have a crappy pack, the pull-down on the shoulders can be a mess too).

I'm a small person so I carry less than 6 kilos, including my pack, and a necessary kilo of that is emergency allergy meds. But, I can't make it to 10% of my body weight, and by the end of camino, I was looking at close to 12% of my body-weight in the same backpack + contents. I was fine... but did I need or want to carry more? No way.
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#57
....shampoo...conditioner....soap...foot cream......toothpaste....a kilo in toiletries sounds a lot. It's all bit of game really to seem how little you actually need. I would be finding half a cake of soap that you can wash you and your hair and your clothes with, take some toothpaste tablets or squeeze out most of a tube...travel size spray deodorant if you must. My pack sits at 5.5 and hers at 4.5kgs.
Yes, on second look I was probably over-estimating. But I still have those heavy things which I can't avoid. I've checked my current packing list I have small bottle of sun-block, contact lens solution, tube of foot cream/lubricant, lush shampoo bar, antiseptic spray. It all comes to about 600g not 1kg.

I'll look into toothpaste tablets :)
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#59
Go to a dentist. Dentists have ways to lower the amount of toothpaste that you will need. And the tooth extraction will save some additional weight beyond the toothpaste as well. ;)
Good idea. I've also been looking at having my own custom carbon-fibre ultra-lightweight pilgrims shell made, which I will be marketing here very soon ;-)
 

Morgan Holmes

Every day is a path to walk.
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances to Santiago from SJPDP (2014); Fromistá to Santiago (2018).
#63
Yes, on second look I was probably over-estimating. But I still have those heavy things which I can't avoid. I've checked my current packing list I have small bottle of sun-block, contact lens solution, tube of foot cream/lubricant, lush shampoo bar, antiseptic spray. It all comes to about 600g not 1kg.

I'll look into toothpaste tablets :)
My epipens, asthma inhalers and protective cases come in at 2 pounds, just shy of 1 kilo. For laundry I carry soap berries; they are almost weightless. I use a combined body-wash/shampoo, and a very light travel brush, and one tube of toothpaste in the travel size made by HEMA -- it's a little bigger than we get in N. America. Compeeds, non-chafing stick, and sunscreen round it out, but are extra to my asthma and anaphylaxis kit. I had one hair elastic for the whole trip -- either on my wrist or in my hair.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#64
Would any of the 4.5kg crowd mind treating us to a breakdown of the weights of their items?

It is still somehow incomprehensible to me that anyone could get their backpack down so low. Part of me wonders if there must be some hidden compromise here that no-one is mentioning, because I've got everything in a spreadsheet and although I can see I could cut off a couple of hundred grammes here and there, dropping 2 or 3kg is just out of the question without losing some large and useful items. I'm clearly not doing it right! Do you all borrow other peoples chargers and toothpaste or something? ;-)
Here's mine. If you see a '0' value, it means the item is not taken. I apologize about the size, I don't know how to adjust an insert's size.


Gear List 1.jpg
 

Morgan Holmes

Every day is a path to walk.
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances to Santiago from SJPDP (2014); Fromistá to Santiago (2018).
#65
I see some things that I absolutely didn't pack:
a day pack
soap (I had combination shampoo/body wash)
wet-wipes/TP
no beanie (used a Buff)
insoles
knife
lighter
water treatment
quilt (had a silk liner)
sewing kit
batteries (used rechargeable stuff)
Compas (built in to my phone)
rain kilt

That's roughly 34 oz I wasn't carrying from your list. But we carry what we carry... right? I ditched a solar re-charger because it was not necessary, and I picked dup gloves in León because the weather had turned cold in the mornings. I ditched my hat (very lightweight wide-brimmed sunhat because it made me hotter, and I bought the Camino Buff sold in Sto. Domingo -- still wear that almost year round!)
Attached photo of all my stuff, including the Osprey 36L Kestrel/Kyte women's small.
IMG_2906.jpg
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJPDP-Finisterre X 2, El Norte incompleto
#66
My epipens, asthma inhalers and protective cases come in at 2 pounds, just shy of 1 kilo. For laundry I carry soap berries; they are almost weightless. I use a combined body-wash/shampoo, and a very light travel brush, and one tube of toothpaste in the travel size made by HEMA -- it's a little bigger than we get in N. America. Compeeds, non-chafing stick, and sunscreen round it out, but are extra to my asthma and anaphylaxis kit. I had one hair elastic for the whole trip -- either on my wrist or in my hair.
Tell me more about these soap berries for laundry.
 

Morgan Holmes

Every day is a path to walk.
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances to Santiago from SJPDP (2014); Fromistá to Santiago (2018).
#67
Tell me more about these soap berries for laundry.
They are GENIUS! I use them at home for almost every wash (unless it's a serious stain!). If you look on Amazon, for "soap berries" you can find them. They are not cheap on the outlay, but a $50 box in Canadian currency gets me 360 washes. I took 10 berries with me for 6 weeks of laundry (and shared loads with people regularly). 10 berries per wash, in a little baggie. They have a natural saponification process released when they get wet. Remove the baggie from the wash and secure to your backpack to dry. Dry, they honestly weigh almost nothing. They have no obnoxious perfume either, so get for folks like me with skin allergies.

Just google "Soap Berries"
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJPDP-Finisterre X 2, El Norte incompleto
#68
They are GENIUS! I use them at home for almost every wash (unless it's a serious stain!). If you look on Amazon, for "soap berries" you can find them. They are not cheap on the outlay, but a $50 box in Canadian currency gets me 360 washes. I took 10 berries with me for 6 weeks of laundry (and shared loads with people regularly). 10 berries per wash, in a little baggie. They have a natural saponification process released when they get wet. Remove the baggie from the wash and secure to your backpack to dry. Dry, they honestly weigh almost nothing. They have no obnoxious perfume either, so get for folks like me with skin allergies.

Just google "Soap Berries"
They sound awesome! I did read up on them a bit. Do you soak them in hot water at all before hand washing your clothes? I think that they would probably work well with my preferred method of clothes washing. I have a super lightweight dry bag (1.2 ounces) that I put my clothes in as I remove them in the shower. I add a bit of soap and warm shower water then let them soak while I shower. After my shower I agitate the bag a bit, then rinse in the laundry sink.
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#69
Here's mine. If you see a '0' value, it means the item is not taken. I apologize about the size, I don't know how to adjust an insert's size.
Thanks Dave for taking the time to post this. It gives me some clues where to look to save weight. I'm finding it hard to get a feel for the values though as I'm not used to everything being expressed in ounces! :)
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#70
Here's mine. If you see a '0' value, it means the item is not taken. I apologize about the size, I don't know how to adjust an insert's size.
This is very interesting. I've been comparing my list to yours. There seem to be quite a few things on my list that don't appear on yours. Can I ask you - will you really not take any of these: phone, charger, camera, change of underwear (!), sunglasses, dry bags?

I see how your footwear and rainwear choices are making a big difference. Instead of a poncho I've got a raincoat, rain kilt and backpack cover. Your poncho would do all three at once.

And I have to ask... what kind of towel only weighs one ounce?
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#71
This is very interesting. I've been comparing my list to yours. There seem to be quite a few things on my list that don't appear on yours. Can I ask you - will you really not take any of these: phone, charger, camera, change of underwear (!), sunglasses, dry bags?

I see how your footwear and rainwear choices are making a big difference. Instead of a poncho I've got a raincoat, rain kilt and backpack cover. Your poncho would do all three at once.

And I have to ask... what kind of towel only weighs one ounce?
Let clear up some confusion that I may have caused. My equipment list is what goes into my pack. The shorts, shoes, socks and hat that I wear are not in my pack so they don't get included as total pack weight. I never do the typical skin out weight, because clothing must be worn... nudity is not really an option. Suffice it to say, though, that my running shoes, worn shorts, socks, and shirt are very light weight for their categories. For example, my worn shirt is a 3.8 ounce long sleeved pullover shirt. I am really considering changing out one shirt for this, which would add an additional 6.5 ounces: https://www.rei.com/product/111556/kuhl-airkraft-shirt-mens

1. My phone and sunglasses are on my person. I don't use a charger, I have a small adapter that stays with the phone.

2. I do not use underwear per se, my running shorts have a built in liner.

3. For Camino, I don't use dry bags since my pack is not exposed to enough extreme weather to make it past my poncho and my pack -- the fabric of which is waterproof, although the seams are not sealed. For backpacking, I have three separate 0.5 ounce bags for organization, but I use a 1 ounce packbag liner for protecting the contents from any extreme weather and rain.

3. The towel I use is a cutdown microfiber towel. It is actually closer to 3/4 of an ounce, but it depends on water content when in the mesh pocket of my pack. :) It is not as absorbent as a thick towel, but I don't mind a bit of evaporative air drying if needed.
 

Walking Lover

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CdS from Leon to Santiago, June 16, 2016 to June 30, 2016.
#72
Several times I've been given to wonder where this rule that you should have your backpack weighing 10% of your bodyweight actually came from. What's more, why do so many people keep repeating it without even thinking about it? It's become a bit like one of those urban myths that people look up on snopes.com!

Basically my gripe is that it only applies if you're a reasonably tall male of about 75-80 kilos. Then nice - you get to carry a backpack of optimum weight 7.5-8 kilos. But stray too far from this figure and the results make no sense. Would you really tell a short slim woman of 45 kilos to only bring 4.5 kilos with her on the Camino? That wouldn't get her much further than her backpack, a sleeping bag and a pair of crocs! Likewise, I've met plenty of taller strong guys happily carrying 10 or 11 kilos with them who weigh nothing close to 100-110 kg. In fact, if they did, they'd be struggling a lot more!

So where did this strange rule come from and why does everyone keep repeating it?!
The recommendation is in John Brierley's book. I think it is an important one for walking 800 km in 33 days. Last year, I started out with about 12 lbs. I weigh around 117, and I am in excellent shape (Run a minimum of 20 miles a week and do 1/2 marathons. After the first day, I lightened the loiad and left about 3 lbs behind. I think the 10% figure is a good guide.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 18/916/10/17 Muxia/Finisterre 18/10-22/10/17 Norte 21/4-29/5/18 Primitive 20/9-5/10/18
#73
Our pack weights are always limited to 7kg maximum each as we always avoid putting luggage in the hold when we travel anywhere. Just boarded a plane this night to London (via Abu Dabi) and pack 1 was 6.9, pack 2 was 7.1 and pack 3 was 6. Add to that the water and snacks/lunch stuff shared between everyone and the jackets/jumpers attached when/if it warms up in April & May. Was OK last time, and I'm not stressing out about it this time either. Arriving Spain on the 12th and hopefully walking out of Irun 13th, 14th. Can't wait to get started!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances - 2009
Portuguese Interior (2014)
Hadrian's Wall (2017)
Porto to SdC ( Sep 2018)
#74
I'm not sure how others might deal with my particular situation concerning that "10%" rule. I was doing quite fine, thank you, with a quite heavy (by most standards), 22 lb pack for my journey in central Portugal. I had planned on a side trip (I enter and exit Europe by way of Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany - a perk available to retired US military) in Germany so I carried a bit more weight - and trained accordingly. Quite soon after I arrived and was on my way (about 100 K into my pilgrimage) a very generous acquaintance provided me with a vintage bottle of Port.... Not one that I should drink alone so I chose to carry that bugger all the way across Portugal, Spain, France, Germany and the eastern USA.... There ARE very good reasons for having a heavier pack! I was none the worse for it, either! [Oh, and I would do it again in a "heartbeat" for another bottle of that port shared with family and friends] :D
 

Anamya

Keeping it simple
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015)
Camino Portugues (2017)
Lebaniego (Planning)
#75
I don't have the weight of each item, but here is a quick list of my items (total = 5.3kg) for an April Camino

(Does not include what I wear: Tshirt, knee-zip pants, hat, bra, underwear, socks, sneakers, sunglasses, neck buff, hairband and ziplock with money/documents)

Clothes
2 quick dry tshirts
2 microfiber underwear
2 socks
lycra leggings
shorts
flip-flops
puffy jacket
plastic poncho

Toiletries
airplane toothbrush
mini toothpaste
45ml lenses fluid
lenses case
mini hairbrush
90ml moistoriser with sunblocker
hotel-size shampoo (also used as soap and to wash clothes)
medicaments/band aids
microfiber towel

Others
Phone / phone charger
Small Tablet (my guilty pleasure item. Same brand as phone, uses same charger)
notebook and pen
minitorch
day bag
silk liner
water bottle
safety pins

All inside my faithful backpack which I got for free with my laptop and is the most comfortable I've ever carried (besides being quite light) :)

- If any of those thing ended, I would just buy a new one, refill my containers and share with other pilgrims. Or get a new one from the ammenities set in case we stopped in a hotel/inn instead of albergue.

- If it got colder, I'd just wear everything layered.

- Phone took the (almost none) pictures I wanted. I rarely take pictures of anything. I wrote a lot, though.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Spring 2018
#76
I leave in 2 days and have been fretting over the weight in my pack until I read these posts. Excellent!
I weigh 164lbs - 74 kg
I was trying to get my pack weight to less than 16lbs - 7.3 kg
No hostels for me! I could never sleep.
I finally ignored the 10% rule. I figured early stages of the Camino I may need to wear my rain coat and long sleeve but later in the stages (May) I would need to pack my rain coat & long sleeve. So I counted my rain coat & all my shirts as worst case.
30 litre Gregory pack 3.5lbs - 1.6kg
sandals & small first aide kit 1.5 lbs - .7kg
razor, toothbrush, comb, travel tooth paste .5lbs - .45kg
needed medication, 1 roll toilet paper, extra pair of glasses, 1 pair sun glasses (all prescription) 1.5lbs - .7kg
rain coat 2lbs - .9kg
John Brierly Camino book, selfie stick, passport, cards & euros 1.5lbs - .7kg
Rick Steve's Spain book, tablet, ipod, chargers, (for Madrid and vacation afterward) 2.5lbs - 1.15kg
1000ml water + bottle 2lbs - .9kg
clothes = extra pair hiking pants (which zip into shorts), 2 dry fit short sleeve shirts, 2 extra pairs of sock, 3 extra underwear, light weight baseball cap (sun), light weight dry fit winter hat 2lbs - .9
rounding up and my totally not accurate fish scale
total weight 17-18lbs - 7.7kg -8.1kg
reading these posts had me calm down and not over analyzing the weight of everything, which for an engineer is next to impossible! Buen Camino
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#77
Our pack weights are always limited to 7kg maximum each as we always avoid putting luggage in the hold when we travel anywhere. Just boarded a plane this night to London (via Abu Dabi) and pack 1 was 6.9, pack 2 was 7.1 and pack 3 was 6. Add to that the water and snacks/lunch stuff shared between everyone and the jackets/jumpers attached when/if it warms up in April & May. Was OK last time, and I'm not stressing out about it this time either. Arriving Spain on the 12th and hopefully walking out of Irun 13th, 14th. Can't wait to get started!
I tried doing this in October but still had to pay to have my backpack checked in because I was carrying hiking poles :/
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#78
I don't have the weight of each item, but here is a quick list of my items (total = 5.3kg) for an April Camino

(Does not include what I wear: Tshirt, knee-zip pants, hat, bra, underwear, socks, sneakers, sunglasses, neck buff, hairband and ziplock with money/documents)

Clothes
2 quick dry tshirts
2 microfiber underwear
2 socks
lycra leggings
shorts
flip-flops
puffy jacket
plastic poncho

Toiletries
airplane toothbrush
mini toothpaste
45ml lenses fluid
lenses case
mini hairbrush
90ml moistoriser with sunblocker
hotel-size shampoo (also used as soap and to wash clothes)
medicaments/band aids
microfiber towel

Others
Phone / phone charger
Small Tablet (my guilty pleasure item. Same brand as phone, uses same charger)
notebook and pen
minitorch
day bag
silk liner
water bottle
safety pins

All inside my faithful backpack which I got for free with my laptop and is the most comfortable I've ever carried (besides being quite light) :)

- If any of those thing ended, I would just buy a new one, refill my containers and share with other pilgrims. Or get a new one from the ammenities set in case we stopped in a hotel/inn instead of albergue.

- If it got colder, I'd just wear everything layered.

- Phone took the (almost none) pictures I wanted. I rarely take pictures of anything. I wrote a lot, though.
Just a silk liner in April is quite brave. I tried that and had a couple of sleepless nights from cold in late October. After that I found my most important Spanish question to ask any albergue was "tienes mantas aqui?" (do you have blankets?)
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances...
Sept. 2017: SJPdP to Burgos
Sept./Oct. 2018: SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela
#79
I tried doing this in October but still had to pay to have my backpack checked in because I was carrying hiking poles :/
So far, I have been able to take my pack on board as a carry-on with my poles from my airport. But i know when returning from Spain, they need to be mailed home. My pack size and weight are well within the restrictions for carry-ons domestically and internationally, so it's always just a question about the poles.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF: (2001, 2002, 2004, 2014). Hospitalera: 2002, Ponferrada. 2004, Rabanal del Camino.
#80
When I initially walked camino 10% of body weight meant a light pack at 11lbs. Since then I've been blessed with the need to take steroids. Ergo, I can fill a pack with nearly 18lbs of goodies.

Obviuosly, there is wiggle up and down the scale for 10 per cent suggestion.

Buen packing to all.
 

Anamya

Keeping it simple
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015)
Camino Portugues (2017)
Lebaniego (Planning)
#81
Just a silk liner in April is quite brave.
In the few nights that were cold, I slept with my jacket + the albergues mantas (which you are very right in asking about!). But it happened only once, I think, it was very hot both in 2015 and 2017 when I walked. To the point that in 2015 my husband had a heat stroke after Cebreiro!
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJPDP-Finisterre X 2, El Norte incompleto
#82
So far, I have been able to take my pack on board as a carry-on with my poles from my airport. But i know when returning from Spain, they need to be mailed home. My pack size and weight are well within the restrictions for carry-ons domestically and internationally, so it's always just a question about the poles.
I understand that if you are flying out of Santiago all of the airlines there will check your poles for free.
 

H Richards

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June 2017 Francés
October 2017 Le Puy / Francés
June/July 2018 Norte
#83
I understand that if you are flying out of Santiago all of the airlines there will check your poles for free.
That's nice of them. I flew in from Stansted and the people there were not as understanding.
 
Camino(s) past & future
camino primitivo, camino de la costa
#84
it all depends on what weight you are used to carry. backpacks below 10 kg are no problem for anybody but even up to 20kg is easy after a few weeks - at least for somebody like me who actually enjoys carrying a heavy pack. in the mountains a heavy pack will be an extra challenge as this time i might do the camino del norte with my dog and tent. lets find out ;-)

just keep in mind that the human limit for long distance hiking is somewhere around 40km a day with a 35kg backpack, which is what the roman soldiers had to be able to do.
 

MethaV

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2014 Camino Frances
2017 Le Puy en Velay-Cahors
2018 Cahors-SJPdP
Le Chemin Piemont Pyrénéen (2019)
#85
Several times I've been given to wonder where this rule that you should have your backpack weighing 10% of your bodyweight actually came from. What's more, why do so many people keep repeating it without even thinking about it? It's become a bit like one of those urban myths that people look up on snopes.com!

Basically my gripe is that it only applies if you're a reasonably tall male of about 75-80 kilos. Then nice - you get to carry a backpack of optimum weight 7.5-8 kilos. But stray too far from this figure and the results make no sense. Would you really tell a short slim woman of 45 kilos to only bring 4.5 kilos with her on the Camino? That wouldn't get her much further than her backpack, a sleeping bag and a pair of crocs! Likewise, I've met plenty of taller strong guys happily carrying 10 or 11 kilos with them who weigh nothing close to 100-110 kg. In fact, if they did, they'd be struggling a lot more!

So where did this strange rule come from and why does everyone keep repeating it?!
I don't know why you keep calling it a rule. I never heard that it is a rule! As I see it, it is a piece of advice and take it or leave it. Of course you should adjust your backpack the way it suites you.
My weight is less than 60 kgs and I use to carry around 9-10 kg on the Camino. Water and food included...
 

zrexer

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2014, 15,16 & 19 Camino Frances
2017 Camino Portuguese
2018 Camino Primitivo
#86
It is a guideline only.
There are a lot of variables. The first being physical ones. If you have back, hip or knee issues you would want to minimize weight likely.
I basically pack what I need/want and don't worry about the finished weight. I did weigh my pack with water one time and it is was around 28 lbs. I weigh 195 lbs, so I am over the 10% by a fair amount. I have around 60L pack and I suspect it is pretty heavy even empty, but have never actually weighed it empty. Maybe I will some time. The pack fits me well, so will not be replacing with around smaller pack.
My wife weighs 120 lbs and carries around 20 to 22 lbs, so she is even more over the guideline than me. We have been on four Camino's with no issues, so back pack weight is not something we even really think about anymore.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2014)
Camino de Assisi (2015)
Camino de Santiago (Primitivo) (2017)
#87
Several times I've been given to wonder where this rule that you should have your backpack weighing 10% of your bodyweight actually came from. What's more, why do so many people keep repeating it without even thinking about it? It's become a bit like one of those urban myths that people look up on snopes.com!

Basically my gripe is that it only applies if you're a reasonably tall male of about 75-80 kilos. Then nice - you get to carry a backpack of optimum weight 7.5-8 kilos. But stray too far from this figure and the results make no sense. Would you really tell a short slim woman of 45 kilos to only bring 4.5 kilos with her on the Camino? That wouldn't get her much further than her backpack, a sleeping bag and a pair of crocs! Likewise, I've met plenty of taller strong guys happily carrying 10 or 11 kilos with them who weigh nothing close to 100-110 kg. In fact, if they did, they'd be struggling a lot more!

So where did this strange rule come from and why does everyone keep repeating it?!
I walked last year with a backpack 5kilos - And I had all that I needed on that trip
Bye the way - I weigh 63 kilos-
It was really nice to have a light backpack compared to what I have had on previous tours
 
Camino(s) past & future
C/Frances. SJPP - Estella May 2009.
C/frances. SJPP - Santiago April/ May 2013.
C/Finisterre. Santiag - Finisterre - Muxia May 2013.
C/Ingles. Ferrol - Santiago May 2013.
C/Frances. SJPP - Santiago May - June 2015.
C/Finisterre. Santiago - Muxia - Finisrerre - Cee. June 2015.
C/Frances. Logrono - Burgos May 2016.
#88
I'm impressed that both of you managed to get your load down so low. I'm using quite a heavy backpack and sleeping bag. Together that's already over 3kg. Add in a gore-tex jacket, some evening shoes, clothes, water bladder, toiletries... the toiletries are almost a kilo! ... shampoo, conditioner, soap, contact lens solution, foot cream, toothpaste...

My lightest practical load doesn't come in much under 7kg. To get it lower I'd have to leave things out or start spending lots of money on pro ultralight equiment, I guess.
You could always go in the other direction ,put on more weight then supposedly you can carry more .as well as the weight. :eek::rolleyes:I'll weigh 75kg and am 1.72 tall and 65 years old. I walk with just under 10kg plus water .the reason for the is, that is the weight, Ryanair allow me to carry on the plane. At home I often carry more.
Take what your comfortable with.
 
Camino(s) past & future
First timer, leaving April 3rd from SJPDP
#89
MANY years ago in Boy Scouts, we were limited to 40 pounds, on 100 to 130 pound kids. We survived a week and a 100 miles.
Today, ,at age 60, I am at 200 pounds and my pack "base weight" is 16 pounds for the Camino, but I've been training with 24 pounds and having NO problems. The Camino load will be lightest load that I have carried in the last 6 months.

It's a "rule of thumb" that will move with age and conditioning. Probably mostly on the "conditioning" ;-)

Getting on plane tomorrow !!!! YEAH !
Bob
 

backpack45

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Vezelay (2017, in progress); Primitivo & Norte; Geneva/LePuy; Arles; Portuguese; Francés + more
#90
Several times I've been given to wonder where this rule that you should have your backpack weighing 10% of your bodyweight actually came from. What's more, why do so many people keep repeating it without even thinking about it? It's become a bit like one of those urban myths that people look up on snopes.com!

Basically my gripe is that it only applies if you're a reasonably tall male of about 75-80 kilos. Then nice - you get to carry a backpack of optimum weight 7.5-8 kilos. But stray too far from this figure and the results make no sense. Would you really tell a short slim woman of 45 kilos to only bring 4.5 kilos with her on the Camino? That wouldn't get her much further than her backpack, a sleeping bag and a pair of crocs! Likewise, I've met plenty of taller strong guys happily carrying 10 or 11 kilos with them who weigh nothing close to 100-110 kg. In fact, if they did, they'd be struggling a lot more!

So where did this strange rule come from and why does everyone keep repeating it?!
I don't know where it started, but it's a good starting point. Not supposed to be taken literally, it's more a reminder to not carry more than you need to because you will just make your hike more difficult. I think many people confuse "need" and "want." From what I read on the forums, a lot more people carry far too much with them than don't bring enough--evidenced by how many people say they mail stuff home when they get a few kilometers/miles down the road. For many people, walking the Camino routes is a first experience doing a long hike in a foreign country and they are somewhat anxious about will they have enough, will they be adequately prepared for whatever comes up. Over time, they become more secure and realize that they don't need as much, or can buy things along the way, or that "the Camino provides."
 
Camino(s) past & future
Walken camino frances from st Jean in 2015(?) now think about walk from Porto or bike from Haarlem
#92
think his should be taken as a guideline and that it does make sense. As a continuous travelling giant I always wonder how many of these little pants and little shoes these little people are bringing in these big Bags....
A bigger/smaller person weighs more/less but the same goes for his/her jacket, trousers, etc and has more/less volume so needs a bigger/smaller bottle/tube etc of liquids as lotion and even water. So, if you strive to bring 10% of your bodyweight everyone should end up more or less with the same, correct?
 

Anamiri

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances
#93
Sort of- except that some things weigh the same for all regardless of a persons size. Passport, phone, soap, charger, sleeping bag, liner, towel, toothpaste, medication, notebook, glasses, suncreen, water bottle, hat, sticking plaster ,first aid etc. These things weigh the same for us all in most cases.
The only things that are size dependent are clothes. And a certain amount of them is standard as well, eg length of zips, number of buttons etc. I had very little in the way of clothes in my pack by volume, compared to other things.
Having said that I took only 6 kgs including water, and still had stuff I didn't use, but I did summer Caminos.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Walken camino frances from st Jean in 2015(?) now think about walk from Porto or bike from Haarlem
#94
“Sort of- except that some things weigh the same for all regardless of a persons size”

Passport, phone, charger and buttons on you trousers: agree
Other buttons: I reckon a 2 meter persons shirt has a few more than a 1.60 persons shirt. Zippers are shorter

sleeping bag, liner, towel: these come in sizes. Surely not everyone needs a 2 meter sleeping bag. If you go for the cheaper “one size fits all”: the sewing machine will do the job to make it the size you need.

glasses/hat are on your nose/head
first aid, notebook surely won’t fit in minimal lugage.
Water bottle/ sunscreen: when you’re smaller you need less so a smaller bottle will do. All liquids can be repacked to sizes of what you need
 

Anamiri

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances
#95
“Sort of- except that some things weigh the same for all regardless of a persons size”

Passport, phone, charger and buttons on you trousers: agree
Other buttons: I reckon a 2 meter persons shirt has a few more than a 1.60 persons shirt. Zippers are shorter

sleeping bag, liner, towel: these come in sizes. Surely not everyone needs a 2 meter sleeping bag. If you go for the cheaper “one size fits all”: the sewing machine will do the job to make it the size you need.

glasses/hat are on your nose/head
first aid, notebook surely won’t fit in minimal lugage.
Water bottle/ sunscreen: when you’re smaller you need less so a smaller bottle will do. All liquids can be repacked to sizes of what you need
I think you may not have understood my comment.
I had minimal luggage, just under 5 kg without water and ALL those things fit in my pack, including the glasses which I only need for reading, (the sunglasses I wear all day walking). Towel, first time was the smallest size (but inadequate ) took the next size up on the second. I don't decant sunscreen, toothpaste, moisturizer or first aid, I buy small and re-buy. How much sunscreen is required, is more determined by skin type than size. I am a pale skinned blonde, I burn to a crisp easily, a small sunscreen isn't going to do the trick. I also have to take medication with me, which is unavoidable.

Clothes were not the majority of the weight or the bulk in my pack.
I buy items for their weight, for sleeping bags etc even clothes. So its likely they are lighter than yours, but I've gone to some length to get the lightest, fastest drying item I could find. I literally weighed everything on kitchen scales. to the amusement of everyone. My husband and I have similar clothing, he is an Extra large, but the difference in the weight of our clothing with me having the smaller items is not 10% overall. My clothes don't weight 500 gms less than his. (Being a man though he needs slightly fewer items of underwear) The shorts I take are heavier than his as they have more pockets).

I seek out the lightest possible items, and take very little clothing, basically two outfits which I rotated, a long sleeved top, underwear, a jacket which I wore in the mornings, and a rain poncho.
What I was trying to point out is that because I'm 5'2" doesn't mean everything in my pack is scaled down in size..

In my opinion the weight of your pack is more determined by the season you choose to walk in.
In summer, when I have walked, I have taken a very light sleeping bag, next time I wont take one at all.
I don't take a heavier coat, sleeping bag, or even long pants because I don't need to. Pretty sure a 'cold weather' pack would look quite different, and weigh a lot more.

Postnote: selecting flipflops based on weight was a mistake, by the time I got to Burgos I had nearly worn them right through.
 
Last edited:

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#96
Sort of- except that some things weigh the same for all regardless of a persons size. Passport, phone, soap, charger, sleeping bag, liner, towel, toothpaste, medication, notebook, glasses, suncreen, water bottle, hat, sticking plaster ,first aid etc. These things weigh the same for us all in most cases.
I think that's not entirely true -- for those who vary within the range of "average size" maybe to some extent, but smaller people tend to have smaller phones, need to carry less soap, have smaller and lighter sleeping bags and liners, towels, have lower medication doses, eat, drink, and carry smaller amounts of food and water, wear smaller hats, glasses, even keep smaller notebooks and so on ; and the opposite for larger people. In fact, there are only very few items that one can think of that are NOT variable in size and weight relative to those of the person using them.
 

Anamiri

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances
#97
I think that may be the case for a child or a very tiny adult, and depends on what your 'normal ' average range is.
I think we must be within a very average range, as most things for my husband 'XL', and myself 'S', are in fact other than clothes and shoes, the same. Glasses, phone, charger, adapter, passport, toothbrush, comb, drink bottle (std 500ml light plastic), silk liner, hats. Most items are purchased for use and features, not on size. Usable items like soap etc are bought small and replaced when needed. (Spain has shops, I re-buy when I need). I buy larger brim hats as I need to protect my skin more, I'm fair and prone to skin cancer, he is dark.
Some things can be shared, I carry one item, he carries another eg no need for two tubes of toothpaste.
Other items like notebooks are selected based on the amount of writing intended. In my case more than him, he doesn't take one - but writes notes in mine.
Sleeping bags based on body heat requirement. In summer neither of us really needs one anyway.
Medications are based on actual ailments, allergies and conditions, not on body size . Lucky people wont need anything, unfortunate people will have to carry a lot.
I have spent a small fortune getting the lightest possible Camino items, on the whole based on technology not on size.

I think the body size difference would have to be quite considerable, before it would make much difference. I have some very tiny people walking the Camino, maybe for those people it would make a difference. I haven't seen many children walking though.

Next year we will take two grandkids with us from Leon to Santiago, and in order to get their packs down to 3-4 kgs for them, we will use pack transport for the excess, as neither of us is prepared to carry their extra items in our packs. (They are horrified at the packing list I made - they think my clothing suggestions are very 'uncool').
But for the record, the really slight 13 year old can out-eat/drink both of us, and has much bigger feet than me, that he has yet to grow into..
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#98
Medications are based on actual ailments, allergies and conditions, not on body size
I was taking about dosage -- which very much varies according to body mass (yes, there are exceptions to that) -- not the nature of the medicines.

I think that may be the case for a child or a very tiny adult, and depends on what your 'normal ' average range is.
So what of those of us who are 6'6"-6'7" ?

I think we must be within a very average range
And as I said : "for those who vary within the range of "average size" maybe to some extent"

Most items are purchased for use and features, not on size
About 90% or more of the mass that I'll carry with me is equipment that's relative to my size -- and really, that is the same for everyone, and that's far more important as far as differences in pack weight are concerned than "most items".

Sleeping bags based on body heat requirement
My sleeping bag is still going to be larger than yours, and therefore have more mass, ergo more weight.

I have spent a small fortune getting the lightest possible Camino items, on the whole based on technology not on size.
So if it's "the lightest possible", the size S gear that you have weighs the same as your husband's XL and my 4XL ? No technology will make your husband's larger kit as light as yours.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Planning a trip in september 2016
#99
Best packing tip I ever had came from an Argentinian woman. She said take every item and ask yourself, when your are going to use it. If the answer starts with "When", then you put the item in the bag. If the answer starts with "if..." you put it away.

So loose the antiseptic spray. There are pharmacies on every street corner in Spain if you should need it. You bag and knees will love you for lighter load.

Buen camino...
 

Tia Valeria

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pt Norte/Pmtvo 2010
C. Inglés 2011
C. Primitivo '12
Norte-C. de la Reina '13
C. do Mar-C. Inglés '15
My other most frequent question is 'Will it serve more than one purpose?' If so it is worth considering - eg long sleeve vest and longjohns double as pyjamas; travel dress doubles as a night-dress.
All essential toiletries, antiseptics etc are either the smallest available or decanted into smaller travel containers......etc
My feet, hips and knees are thankful for it. I don't find the 10% 'rule' silly but rather a good guide.
 
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