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The ’Real World’ - consensus reality or The Camino

2020 Camino Guides

Wokabaut_Meri

somewhere along the Way
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francés 2015
Pilgrims Way 2018
Via Francigena #1 Canterbury-Dover 2018
Time and again during the Australian Friends of The Camino Conference a theme would arise in various conversations.

Freshly back from a Camino, enthused and alive with all sorts of emotions, ideas and experiences, a pilgrim re-enters the world they left. Be it family, a workplace, a marriage or a neighbourhood. Two worlds converge: the one before your Camino which has gone on much as before and your world filled to bursting with the wealth of Camino experiences - whether good, bad, ecstatic or indifferent.

Many pilgrims relate how they are told by partners / workmates / spouses / neighbours: you’ve had your little holiday but now it’s time to get back into the real world.

The real world of consensus reality John Brierley termed it in his talk this morning... and in his opinion the general consensus of what is the real world was wrong.

I realise that several topics have dealt with life after the Camino but John Brierley was asking us a deeper question and I offer it up here for just that reason.

For some pilgrims the only way to deal with ‘After the Camino’ is to return and walk again. Others bring their experiences back into their lives and are content no longer feeling a call.

What draws pilgrims back and how do they see these two worlds - as separate or similar but apart or is it just the one world which we experience so differently.

A taste of where these past few days have taken some of us...
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times
The Camino is great. I love walking it. It heals my soul when I am on it. Fulfills my spiritual and religious needs and I like the physicality of it. How it gets me in a physical condition only walking long distances with a pack can do. That being said, I realize that while I am walking it I am in a bubble of sorts. An escape from the day to day grind, whatever that grind may be. While I am walking it countless people who may never get to go on a 30+ day holiday in their entire lives have to do the grind so that I may walk it. Be it a bus driver, baggage handler, wait staff at a restaurant, cafe or bartender etc. So with all that in my mind I feel immensely blessed and so fortunate. I savor the time I get to walk the Camino. I never ever feel the need to "decompress" from walking the Camino or feel the need to take a holiday to recover from my....holiday? Honestly that concept to me is absurd, and I suppose I see it as a concept invented by the privileged. No offense to anyone....
 
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mvanert

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Bits and pieces - 2014, 2016, 2018 and 2020?
For me the camino is about people. I see they are the same as I am, someone walking a long distance with a pack on their back, sometimes sharing themselves, sometimes not. Their appearance, their place in the world is nothing compared to the shared experience of the moment. I find while on the camino I am more willing to share and support others, no questions, no doubts. I like that. I can't say I am like that in the 'real' world. Yet.
 

Wokabaut_Meri

somewhere along the Way
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francés 2015
Pilgrims Way 2018
Via Francigena #1 Canterbury-Dover 2018
I realize that while I am walking it I am in a bubble of sorts. An escape from the day to day grind, whatever that grind may be.
Exactly what John Brierley was referring to: the concept of ‘the bubble of sorts’ while on the Camino and the reference to the consensus term ‘daily grind’ of our lives. Seeing the two experiences as separate and challenging us to bring the Camino back with us into the daily grind and, in doing so, shifting the consensus reality a little.

I savor the time I get to walk the Camino. I never ever feel the need to "decompress" from walking the Camino or feel the need to take a holiday to recover from my....holiday? Honestly that concept to me is absurd, and I suppose I see it as a concept invented by the privileged. No offense to anyone....
It’s NOT about taking a holiday to recover from the Camino - I think you may have misunderstood my questioning so no offence taken.

For me the camino is about people. I see they are the same as I am, someone walking a long distance with a pack on their back, sometimes sharing themselves, sometimes not. Their appearance, their place in the world is nothing compared to the shared experience of the moment. I find while on the camino I am more willing to share and support others, no questions, no doubts. I like that. I can't say I am like that in the 'real' world. Yet.
...and being ‘like that’ back in whatever form the ‘real world’ took is the challenge that John Brierley set for us all.
 

Wokabaut_Meri

somewhere along the Way
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francés 2015
Pilgrims Way 2018
Via Francigena #1 Canterbury-Dover 2018
No need to apologise at all. I started this topic to open discussion and learn pilgrims’ views and opinions.

I’m very interested in the concept of a taking a holiday to recover from the Camino other than by necessity to recover from an injury.
 
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LTfit

Veteran Member
My "on the Camino life" and "off the Camino life" mesh together nicely, maybe because I spend so much time walking ;) ! And my going on a Camino is no longer considered special or unusual, it's just what I do and my family and friends accept that.

I've never felt as if I were in any sort of "bubble" while on the Camino, maybe because I still read the newspaper and communicate with the outside world and during my time "off Camino" I am a moderator of two Camino Facebook pages, participate (since my first Camino in 2010) in this Forum and am a volunteer hospitalera. My link with the Camino is therefore on-going.

Maybe I am luckily but I do not see my daily life at home as a "grind", my going on a Camino is therefore a nice change but never an escape. I have chosen to work less hours, am an independent practitioner who sets my own hours and hence vacations. There is a trade-off of course. Less money comes in but heck, we learn while walking how little we actually need.

What we see and experience on the Camino is at times intense, even magical, but it is only a reflection of that which we can experience in our daily lives at home - if we take the time to stop, listen and observe.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (Sep/Oct 2018)
Camino Portugues (Sep 2020)
Many pilgrims relate how they are told by partners / workmates / spouses / neighbours: you’ve had your little holiday but now it’s time to get back into the real world.
Wow! It's been almost a year to the day that I got back from my first Camino and I'm still processing the experience. While nobody has come out and said "Get back to reality", there is a sense of "Camino Life" and "Non-Camino Life". Reading this post has given me a sudden realization - I feel like I came back from my trip a better person. Yes, in some ways my thinking and behavior has changed (I think for the better). Why would I want to go back and be the person I was before the Camino? As time has gone on, I find myself "slipping" a little. I need to remind myself to chill out, let it go. I think this is part of the motivation for doing another Camino. How do you get back into the real world if the real world has changed?
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP to Santiago (2012); Burgos to Santiago (2013)
It’s just my impression that there is a constant flow to life so that I never try to “go back” to some previous experience. The current runs “forward”. I make choices which influence but can never completely determine my “right now” experience. I love the whole exciting adventure including the whirlpools, unexpected companions, rocks, sunny pools and all.
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times
My "on the Camino life" and "off the Camino life" mesh together nicely, maybe because I spend so much time walking ;) ! And my going on a Camino is no longer considered special or unusual, it's just what I do and my family and friends accept that.

I've never felt as if I were in any sort of "bubble" while on the Camino, maybe because I still read the newspaper and communicate with the outside world and during my time "off Camino" I am a moderator of two Camino Facebook pages, participate (since my first Camino in 2010) in this Forum and am a volunteer hospitalera. My link with the Camino is therefore on-going.

Maybe I am luckily but I do not see my daily life at home as a "grind", my going on a Camino is therefore a nice change but never an escape. I have chosen to work less hours, am an independent practitioner who sets my own hours and hence vacations. There is a trade-off of course. Less money comes in but heck, we learn while walking how little we actually need.

What we see and experience on the Camino is at times intense, even magical, but it is only a reflection of that which we can experience in our daily lives at home - if we take the time to stop, listen and observe.
I would think just about everyone walking the Camino still knows what is going on in the world while they are strolling through the Spanish countryside and certainly just about everyone communicates with family and friends daily via devices and the internet (which in of itself is a form of bubble dwelling I suppose). That is not what I meant by being in a bubble. I meant it as not being at work/school etc and being able to stroll through the Spanish/French/Portuguese etc countryside with little or no concerns besides whether or not the albergues are full or if you find a good deal on a pilgrim's menu, lol.
Certainly the term grind for one's daily life is subjective I suppose. You sound as though you are blessed and fortunate that you do not have to deal with a grind and that you can make a choice to work less and afford to be able to do so, but there are so many in the world that do live in a grind, and never have an opportunity to escape from it, if even just for a day or two.
I am not trying to be all holier than thou here, but the reality is that if one is able to just pack it up and take off for a long walkabout with no worries, one is pretty well off in the scheme of things and I have no idea what one would pine about upon having to end the walkabout. Has anyone on this forum done one of those Camino debrief/decompression discussions before? I know they do them at the pilgrim's house in Santiago. I saw it on their FB page I believe.
 

Purky

The Dutch guy
Camino(s) past & future
Reality is frequently inaccurate
Nice thread. I've been thinking about this theme too, on and off, since my earth-shattering camino in 2016. The one that turned my world upside down. I'm still trying to figure out why it had that effect, on multiple levels. One level is, indeed, the difference I felt and can still feel between the 'camino world' and the 'real world'. And I am not the only one who feels that way, which is sort of comforting.

I can only speak for myself when I say that I think I found some sort of a handle on it. The difference between the 'camino world' and the 'real world' for me doesn't lie in how I spend those days. It has to do with how I experience them. I can better explain that with the terms responsibility and obligation and how they either converge (camino world) or mismatch (real world). Because responsibility and obligation aren't the same for me, however similar they can seem.

Responsibility is something you take on because you choose to, and it has a definite moral or ethical dimension to it. An obligation is something that comes from being responsible, a duty or commitment. When the stars align and everything feels right, responsibility and obligation overlay each other perfectly. When bits of one or the other stick out, things make less sense and I start feeling uneasy.

For example: when on camino I feel a reponsibility to take good care of myself, so I feel obliged to eat well, take regular showers and not go completely nuts with daily distances. In the real world I also want to take good care of myself, but for various reasons I also feel a strong obligation to take care of others. And sometimes that can get in the way of taking care of myself. It's only a simple example, but I hope it gets my point across.

So I have my work cut out for me. To incorporate the 'camino world' into the 'real world' I have to figure out where my reponsibilities start (and which ones to choose) and where my obligations end (and which ones to accept).

Seneca the Younger, a Roman Stoic philosopher, has some nice thoughts that touch upon this subject in his "On the Shortness of Life". A short quote, and when you replace the word 'preoccupation' by obligation, you'll probably catch my drift:

"Indeed the state of all who are preoccupied is wretched, but the most wretched are those who are toiling not even at their own preoccupations, but must regulate their sleep by another’s, and their walk by another’s pace, and obey orders in those freest of all things, loving and hating. If such people want to know how short their lives are, let them reflect how small a portion is their own."
 

Redhead Keith

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francé: 2005: 2016
Inglés: 2017
Salvador: 2018: 2019
Primitivo: 2018: 2019
The world I return to is not 'real', its not how the world should be. Its an illusion manufactured and maintained by a psychopathic minority hell-bent on enslaving the majority in consumerism, shallow and inhumane acts of perverse selfishness and destruction. Its not the real world as it should be. Being on Camino reinforces just how false what we are told is, eg how we should live our lives, what will make us happy if we do/have something they manipulate us to believe in and act upon.
Camino is the real world world for me, a real journey of searching and asking. Of being with a community. On Camino I am always blessed with meeting real people, like minded, witness acts of kindness and love. Thats what is real to me, a flash of insight as to how the real world should be.
After Camino, I never fit back into this imposed, perverse false world that is forced upon me. And I am pleased not to do so. You don't have to either - you can let your Camino influence and change you. It doesn't have to be in Earth-shattering leaps and bounds. Tiny or small Camino influences can make a great difference to your life and this world, to make them real, how they should be. Camino has done this too me, been the closest I have ever been to what should be a real world. That's why I (and I am sure many others), yearn for my next Camino as soon I have completed one.
What I love is the Love, Light and Nature of Camino. The real world as it shold be that it offers.
LLN Keith
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times
The world I return to is not 'real', its not how the world should be. Its an illusion manufactured and maintained by a psychopathic minority hell-bent on enslaving the majority in consumerism, shallow and inhumane acts of perverse selfishness and destruction. Its not the real world as it should be. Being on Camino reinforces just how false what we are told is, eg how we should live our lives, what will make us happy if we do/have something they manipulate us to believe in and act upon.
Camino is the real world world for me, a real journey of searching and asking. Of being with a community. On Camino I am always blessed with meeting real people, like minded, witness acts of kindness and love. Thats what is real to me, a flash of insight as to how the real world should be.
After Camino, I never fit back into this imposed, perverse false world that is forced upon me. And I am pleased not to do so. You don't have to either - you can let your Camino influence and change you. It doesn't have to be in Earth-shattering leaps and bounds. Tiny or small Camino influences can make a great difference to your life and this world, to make them real, how they should be. Camino has done this too me, been the closest I have ever been to what should be a real world. That's why I (and I am sure many others), yearn for my next Camino as soon I have completed one.
What I love is the Love, Light and Nature of Camino. The real world as it shold be that it offers.
LLN Keith
Do you work for a living, or are you retired or something? Just curious....
 

Redhead Keith

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francé: 2005: 2016
Inglés: 2017
Salvador: 2018: 2019
Primitivo: 2018: 2019
Do you work for a living, or are you retired or something? Just curious....
No, I don't believe you are 'just curious'. Its a passive question as to my relationship to this 'real world' and how I live in it and up to my ideals. There are many ways to reject what is forced upon us and live a real life. And I don't have to explain how to do this. You and others can go and seek this for yourself, its the best way to learn and change. Camino helps with this...
Best regards, LLN
Keith
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times
No, I don't believe you are 'just curious'. Its a passive question as to my relationship to this 'real world' and how I live in it and up to my ideals. There are many ways to reject what is forced upon us and live a real life. And I don't have to explain how to do this. You and others can go and seek this for yourself, its the best way to learn and change. Camino helps with this...
Best regards, LLN
Keith
Love to, but there are three people who depend upon me to help keep them fed and clothed, lol. I have to still toil away in the "perverse false world" that enslaves others for the sake of consumerism. You know, like the consumerism that allows us to communicate on these really cool, affordable electronic devices, lol. 🤣
 

Redhead Keith

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francé: 2005: 2016
Inglés: 2017
Salvador: 2018: 2019
Primitivo: 2018: 2019
Love to, but there are three people who depend upon me to help keep them fed and clothed, lol. I have to still toil away in the "perverse false world" that enslaves others for the sake of consumerism. You know, like the consumerism that allows us to communicate on these really cool, affordable electronic devices, lol. 🤣
:)Of course you have your life to lead, and your perspective and opinion. But I'm allowed to respond to this thread and express my experiences and ideals. I understand your situation, and don't make personal criticism of your opinon. Good luck. :) We all need it. Our Earth needs it. Future generations need it.
LLN Keith
 
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Anna Cameron

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances sept-oct 2018
For me the camino is about people. I see they are the same as I am, someone walking a long distance with a pack on their back, sometimes sharing themselves, sometimes not. Their appearance, their place in the world is nothing compared to the shared experience of the moment. I find while on the camino I am more willing to share and support others, no questions, no doubts. I like that. I can't say I am like that in the 'real' world. Yet.
And yet, during the 2 1/2 days of the Australian Friends of the Camino conference here in Adelaide, I felt so strongly the emotions and shared experience that you describe. It was an opportunity to share with others, almost as though we were back somewhere in Europe, walking... I have to say, I found John Brierley's presentations so moving - I was far more impressed by his words to us than I have ever felt reading his guidebooks!
 

Wokabaut_Meri

somewhere along the Way
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francés 2015
Pilgrims Way 2018
Via Francigena #1 Canterbury-Dover 2018
And yet, during the 2 1/2 days of the Australian Friends of the Camino conference here in Adelaide, I felt so strongly the emotions and shared experience that you describe. It was an opportunity to share with others, almost as though we were back somewhere in Europe, walking... I have to say, I found John Brierley's presentations so moving - I was far more impressed by his words to us than I have ever felt reading his guidebooks!
Oh Anna! Spot on! I heard exactly those same emotions expressed by so many.

It was truly like being on a Camino and spending the evenings in an Aussie Albergue.

...and John Brierley was a gift - so moving and yet challenging as well. I think, like any Camino, we’ll be processing our experiences for some time.

Go Well 🙃
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2006) Portugues(2013)
San Salvador (2017) Ingles (2019)
Wow! It's been almost a year to the day that I got back from my first Camino and I'm still processing the experience. While nobody has come out and said "Get back to reality", there is a sense of "Camino Life" and "Non-Camino Life". Reading this post has given me a sudden realization - I feel like I came back from my trip a better person. Yes, in some ways my thinking and behavior has changed (I think for the better). Why would I want to go back and be the person I was before the Camino? As time has gone on, I find myself "slipping" a little. I need to remind myself to chill out, let it go. I think this is part of the motivation for doing another Camino. How do you get back into the real world if the real world has changed?
I was moved by your post, and instead of looking for words of my own, here are some that have been attributed to various persons, but the messages is the same:
 

Anna Cameron

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances sept-oct 2018
Oh Anna! Spot on! I heard exactly those same emotions expressed by so many.

It was truly like being on a Camino and spending the evenings in an Aussie Albergue.

...and John Brierley was a gift - so moving and yet challenging as well. I think, like any Camino, we’ll be processing our experiences for some time.

Go Well 🙃
❤
 

Anna Cameron

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances sept-oct 2018
Oh Anna! Spot on! I heard exactly those same emotions expressed by so many.

It was truly like being on a Camino and spending the evenings in an Aussie Albergue.

...and John Brierley was a gift - so moving and yet challenging as well. I think, like any Camino, we’ll be processing our experiences for some time.

Go Well 🙃
❤
 

Karl Oz

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances
Portuguese
Aragones
Sanabres
Piamonte
Elizabethpfad
And yet, during the 2 1/2 days of the Australian Friends of the Camino conference here in Adelaide, I felt so strongly the emotions and shared experience that you describe. It was an opportunity to share with others, almost as though we were back somewhere in Europe, walking... I have to say, I found John Brierley's presentations so moving - I was far more impressed by his words to us than I have ever felt reading his guidebooks!
I attended his presentation in Melbourne last evening and found it very worthwhile. He made some interesting points about much of what is discussed in this thread, using anecdotes from his camino travels.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
A quote that has stuck with me was one that was shared on one of the Camino podcasts I listen to (My Camino, I think). It goes, "The Camino is God's dream of how people should treat one another." In that sense, the Camino is the dream and the rest of our life is the real world. But consider who is doing the dreaming. Perhaps God's dream has more reality than our perceptions of "regular life".

The whole thing calls to mind the Taoist tale in Zhuangzi "Once upon a time, I, Chuang Chou, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Chou. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man." (translated by Li Yutang)
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times
A quote that has stuck with me was one that was shared on one of the Camino podcasts I listen to (My Camino, I think). It goes, "The Camino is God's dream of how people should treat one another." In that sense, the Camino is the dream and the rest of our life is the real world. But consider who is doing the dreaming. Perhaps God's dream has more reality than our perceptions of "regular life".

The whole thing calls to mind the Taoist tale in Zhuangzi "Once upon a time, I, Chuang Chou, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Chou. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man." (translated by Li Yutang)
I got to say, I have never observed anything Utopian about walking the Camino. Sure, you are in the company of mostly like minded people, but I have observed all the negative stuff life off the Camino walk has. Petty arguments, selfishness, egocentric attitudes, rudeness, theft and other crimes, arrogance. I can only assume all those things have always been on the Camino, and certainly were more abundant and at times fatal during Medieval times.
I have never walked the Camino while wearing the proverbial rose coloured glasses. I do not want to see it through them. I do not walk it to escape anything, and certainly I know it is not a place to escape from anything. It has the thorns as well as the rose, just like so many things in life. I like that.
 

Judy's Way

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Autumn (2015) and Spring (2019)
Just la few thoughts about the Camino and life back in the 'real world.' Like life itself, on the Camino there are good times and bad. Sometimes life is easy and sometimes it isn't. In life we come to an intersection and don't know which way to turn but on the camino, at least, there is a yellow arrow pointing us in the right direction.

How often do we get to be in a crowd of people all walking in the same direction and along the same path. Even though we don't all speak the same language, there is an unseen bond between us. How wonderful it would be if all the world got together like this with one goal, one path!

The kindnesses of strangers who are willing to help was wonderful and is something I wish there was more of back in the 'real world.'

For me, the Camino gives me freedom. Not just freedom from daily chores but freedom from making plans, from following a schedule, from knowing what the day will bring: what I'll see, who I'll meet, etc. Each day is a blank slate and who knows what will be written on it? It's an adventure waiting to happen.

My next adventure will be in April, 2020.
 

Doughnut NZ

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2019)
Thank you for raising this topic.

For me, the "bubble" or feeling of unreality on the Camino comes from my freedom to be. Walking the Camino alone is a bit like the cliche about the Internet, "On the Internet, no one knows that you are a dog".

On the Camino, no one knows who I "am". Of course, there is no "am", that thing that I call my personality is just an accretion of habit on my part AND the pushback that I get from the people around me who know who I "am" and like to tell me to "get back in line", or "stop being silly", or "that is not like you".

On the Camino I can be anyway I like, subject to laws and my ability to change my habits. Back at home this is much harder.

Of course, I could get the same freedom by going just about anywhere else where people don't know "who I am" but then I would need to find some way to get the focus that I get from walking and I wouldn't get to be around you wonderful folk!
 

lbrown498

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
October 2012 done 2015 planning
Concensus reality is a consensus, an agreement to pretend that things are other than they are. It's an Emperor's new clothes sort of thing. What they are really saying is "we don't want to hear about it any more." Perhaps they are envious, or perhaps they are not interested. In a way, both sides of the question boil down to the same dynamic: wanting to share (or wanting others to share) your experience. Choose the viewpoint that suits you -- the Camino or the Quotidian. Whenever my daughter and I start talking about our experience on the Camino, the eyes of our loved ones start glaze over after about 5 minutes. When my dad or my in-laws start talking about football or the political puppet shows or cars or the latest media hype, I start mentally climbing the walls.
 

Simon Shum

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances Oct 2013, Porto, San Salvador & Primitivo 2014. Norte 2016, VdLP & Via Francigena 2017
Similar to many comments above, to me, my daily life and the camino life is the same. It is the same because I make it that way -- to live my life with "kindness".
Twenty some years ago when I first start practicing meditation, I read a story about an accomplished English meditator having a long conversation with an old old monk. A very deep conversation, at the end, the old monk asked that gentleman: "when were you last kind?"
After some deep contemplation, I vowed from then on, I want to live my life with "kindness", kind to me and to everyone around me, every seconds, all the time!! It is not "a random act of kindness", it is always there (or aware and correct when it is not!). I like the camino because I have experienced the same kindness in so many pilgrims! So why do we want to "get back to the real world"? Kindness is the real word the way we live it.
Buen Camino de Vida!
 

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