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Search 69,459 Camino Questions

The Art of Buying a New Backpack

davebugg

A Pilgrimage is time I spend praying with my feet
Time of past OR future Camino
2019
There is a specific methodology that is used to properly size and fit a backpack. I cover that topic HERE (click on the blue text)

When an experienced backpacker on this Forum says that a brand and model of a backpack like the Osprey Stratos or a Gossamer Gear Gorilla, or a zPacks Arc fits them well, that is a recommendation worth listening to. Should you then simply commit to purchasing that recommendation? Definitely no. Individual tastes and body types and anatomical irregularities means that, like an organ transplant, what one person finds comfortable and compatible may not work for someone else.

How should we make use of recommendations, then? The best thing to do is to consider knowledgeable recommendations for inclusion on a short list of candidates for testing as a personal match.

[This above also applies to footwear].

Do you need to go to a store in order to purchase a backpack that fits? No.

I am a firm believer that most people can do the steps that it takes to properly fit a backpack while at home, which opens up a whole world of backpack choices. You are not limited to the narrow selections at a single store.

When choosing a store for a backpack purchase (or footwear) you will have better luck at a specialty outdoor shop like REI, IF it is well managed to include providing proficient staff training with quality assurance assessments of a salespersons skill. It is also important that the salespersons in the store do not appear to be harried if the store is busy, so only shop at hours when the shopping wave is at low tide.

Over the years I have helped many folks remediate issues with their backpacks and footwear that have been purchased thru an REI, and other specialty stores. Because of this, I would recommend not - as the first course of action - outright rejecting a backpack because it doesn't seem to 'feel' right' as you are testing it out in the store.

Why?

First: For a person in normal health ( you do not have unique physical issues that create challenges to achieving comfort}, it can often take time for your body to get used to the 'feel' of wearing a backpack, period. Everything from your center of gravity to your core muscles are doing something new, and It is likely that even a properly fitted and adjusted fully loaded backpack will feel odd and out of place. This is especially true if you are new to wearing a regular backpack designed specifically for hiking, but also applies if it has been a while since backpacking or hiking.

Therefore when assessing the backpack in the store, do not be immediately put off because it feels strange; that may mean your body just needs a period of time to adapt to the feel of carrying a backpack as a new activity.

What you need to focus on is if the backpack is just outright uncomfortable to wear. The sales person should load the backpack with around 25 pounds/11.3 Kg. of weight. Walk around the store for at least 20 minutes. If there is discomfort caused by pressure points or digging into your body from a frame, shoulder harness, hipbelt, etc., that is a red flag.

On the other hand, if the backpack only feels like it is being just a tad nagging or niggling, it may indicate that your body needs time to get used to carrying any backpack. That process will take more time than from just wearing it around the store.

Make sure the return policy of the store allows you to return the backpack at least two weeks after purchase before you take a backpack home. REI and other outdoor shops have a terrific policy for returning gear and shoes even IF you wear it outdoors on backpacking trips.

If you make a purchase thru an online store like Amazon, most times the return policies are excellent if the return is initiated within 30 days. You need to check the return policy information for specifics to be certain. If the online merchant is REI, for example, no problem. For an Amazon purchase, it can depend on the item, and if the shipping originates from Amazon itself or a third-party vendor

You will want to wear the backpack as often and for a long as you can during your at-home activities. If returns are allowed even if worn outdoors, then you can test it on long outdoor walks..

During this phase of testing for compatibility, load the backpack with between 15 to 25 pounds/ 7 to 9 kg. During the next 3 to 7 days, if the backpack begins to fade into the background so that it is no longer demanding attention, that indicates that it is a good match, not just for the 'fit', but for the 'feel', too.

You want a backpack that feels like you are wearing it, not carrying it as an external burden that is just hanging off of your body. You do not want the backpack to be demanding attention to itself, it must allow your mind to focus on the things around you that YOU want to focus on.

Keep in mind that no backpack will make the weight of a heavy load 'disappear' as if it does not exist. What a backpack should successfully do is to eliminate the nagging irritant of constantly asking, 'are we there yet?'

Second: It can be difficult to accurately asses a back if a salesperson is not doing a good job with the fittings and adjustments as you are trying out backpacks.

Over the years I have been invited by various stores, including some REIs, to in-service trainings for their staff on backpack and footwear fittings. As part of the training, I always inform the management that I will be sending in a 'shopper' 5 to 10 days after their staff was trained. Once the 'shopper' leaves the store with the backpack (or shoes/boots), I will check all the parameters of the fit and adjustments. Most times, the backpack and shoes are a spot-on match to the shopper, but not always; and when the fitting hadn't been correct, oft times it was significantly incorrect. I provide the feedback to the store management for his assessment of how s/he wishes to follow up with their staff.

At an outdoor equipment store, including any REI, if the backpack you are trying feels 'off', the first thing to do is to ask if another sales staff can be invited over to double check the fit and adjustments with your original salesperson. Ask to have them both take another look at your initial measurements to make sure they were correctly measured. Have them re-do the procedures to fit and adjust the backpack.

It could be that the salesperson misread the tape measure OR did not correctly identify where to place the tape measure in relationship to the top and bottom of the spine.

Note: never allow a salesperson to only use a manufacturers' provided template to act as a fitting device; these will not always give a good measurement due to an individual's unique, anatomical variations - like scoliosis, or a deviation to the shoulder or pelvic girdles. Such anomalies can interfere with the proper positioning of the template. This is more likely to become an issue as one is past middle age.

Always insist on being measured with a measuring tape, and the preferable style of tape to use is a highly flexible fabric or paper tape similar to what a clothing fabricator or tailor would use. Also, tapes that are cheap may also be less than accurate, so keep that in mind, too.

Asking for additional assessment is NOT an insult to a sales person. Just tell the salesperson you are very interested in buying the backpack, but you want to completely rule out that the issues you are feeling about the backpack have nothing to do with how it fits. You simply want a second set of eyes to double check things and brainstorm a solution. Even an experienced sales person can be too complacent, distracted, or in a rush which may result in incorrectly 'seeing' the numbers, or incorrectly finding the proper locations on your body for positioning a hipbelt.

Your goal is to find a backpack that will become a great walking companion; it is also what the salesperson should be striving for. Do not worry about making the salesperson happy, worry about making your body happy. A happy body will help to make the camino pilgrimage a fond memory.

Additional Things To Ponder

Regardless of the backpack weight, your walking pace, or your daily fitness routines, etc., the key is to use common sense and reasonable expectations, follow any medical advice from you care provider, and avoid over exertions that can cause injury. Please consider the following:
  1. If you are new to distance walking and carrying a backpack, and you are wondering 'can I do this', it may be worthwhile to talk to your care provider for an honest assessment of your physical condition and listen to any concerns and suggestions that the provider may have. Please, consult with your physician.
  2. When testing the backpack at home, the load in the backpack should honestly reflect the amount of weight you are expecting to carry on a camino.
  3. If you discover that the weight of the backpack load is too heavy, then this is a good opportunity to evaluate how much stuff you plan to bring on a camino and whether a lighter version of those items can be substituted at a cost that doesn't break the bank.
  4. This Forum can help you to research how to lighten a backpack load by using the Forum Search Engine (at the top of the page in the blue menu bar, on the right side of the page). You can also start a thread and post a list of your backpack contents on the Forum. Members love to help, so do not be shy.
  5. Baggage transport is available. If the backpack is too heavy despite your best efforts, consider having a transport service carry some of your backpack inventory in a separate bag. You do not get extra Pilgrim Points and Gold Stars from being injured, or being miserable with a heavy backpack.
  6. When assessing the new backpack as part of a regular outdoor walking routine, you do not have to walk faster than your normal pace or walking speed, or walk extra-long distances.. It is far more important to spend time just wearing the backpack, even if what you are doing are normal household chores.
 
Last edited:
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Thanks for this lay person's discussion of backpack fitting!

I do have one question about this...
load the backpack with between 15 to 25+ pounds/ 7 to 9+ kg.
For me, the 25 pound end of the range would be excessive. I expect to carry no more than 15 lb including water, but I can see the value of a bit of extra weight to highlight the ways the pack might not fit perfectly. Newcomers may need to be reminded that they shouldn't overload and injure themselves on training walks, or blame the backpack when the weight is simply too much. I'm not sure that 25 lb on my back would ever "fade into the background"! :) That said, it would be useful to load 25 lb for tests of several packs walking around the store. It would be a quick way to compare two backpacks against each other.
 
Last edited:
There is a specific methodology that is used to properly size and fit a backpack. I cover that topic HERE (click on the blue text)

When an experienced backpacker on this Forum says that a brand and model of a backpack like the Osprey Stratos or a Gossamer Gear Gorilla, or a zPacks Arc fits them well, that is a recommendation worth listening to. Should you then simply commit to purchasing that recommendation? Definitely no. Individual tastes and body types and anatomical irregularities means that, like an organ transplant, what one person finds comfortable and compatible may not work for someone else.

How should we make use of recommendations, then? The best thing to do is to consider knowledgeable recommendations for inclusion on a short list of candidates for testing as a personal match.

[This above also applies to footwear].

Making a backpack purchase (or footwear) at a specialty outdoor shop like REI, can be of benefit if it is well managed to include providing proficient staff training with quality assurance assessments of a salespersons skill. This indicates that the salesperson doing the fitting will be a reliable resource for assuring a good backpack fitting and adjustment assessment on a shopper. It is also important that the salespersons in the store do not appear to be harried if the store is busy, so only shop at hours when the shopping wave is at low tide.

I have had to help so many folks remediate issues with backpacks and footwear that have been purchased thru an REI, and other specialty stores, that I would recommend not - as the first course of action - outright rejecting a backpack that doesn't seem to 'feel' right' as you are testing it out in the store.

First: For a person in normal health ( you do not have unique physical issues that create challenges to achieving comfort}, it can often take time for your body to get used to the 'feel' of wearing a backpack, period. Everything from your center of gravity to your core muscles are doing something new, and It is likely that even a properly fitted and adjusted fully loaded backpack will feel odd and out of place. This is especially true if you are new to wearing a regular backpack designed specifically for hiking, but also applies if it has been a while since backpacking or hiking.

So consider this issue when assessing your purchase. If the backpack is not outright uncomfortable while walking around the store for at least 20 minutes while loaded with at least 25 pounds/11.3 Kg., but only feels like it is being just a tad nagging or niggling, it may indicate that your body and the new backpack need to get better acquainted with each other which will take a more time than from just wearing it around the store.

After assuring the return policy of the store, take the backpack home. REI has a terrific policy for returning gear and shoes even IF you wear it outdoors on backpacking trips.

If you make a purchase thru an online store like Amazon, most times the return policies are excellent if the return is initiated within 30 days. You need to check the return policy information for any specific to be certain. If the online merchant is REI, for example, no problem. For an Amazon purchase, it can depend on the item, and if the shipping originates from Amazon itself or a third-party vendor

You will want to wear the backpack as often and for a long as you can during your at-home activities. If returns are allowed even if worn outdoors, then can test it on long outdoor walks..

During this phase of testing for compatibility, load the backpack with between 15 to 25+ pounds/ 7 to 9+ kg. During the next 3 to 7 days, if the backpack begins to fade into the background so that it is no longer demanding attention, that indicates that it is a good match, not just for the 'fit', but for the 'feel', too.

You want a backpack that feels like you are wearing it, not carrying it as an external burden that is hanging off of your body. You do not want the backpack to be demanding attention to itself, it must allow your mind to focus on the things around you that YOU want to focus on.

Keep in mind that no backpack will make the weight of a heavy load 'disappear' as if it does not exist. What a backpack should successfully do is to eliminate the nagging irritant of constantly asking, 'are we there yet?'

Second: It may not be an issue of the backpack itself; it may be that the salesperson is not doing a good job with the fitting and adjustments.

Over the years I have been invited by various stores, including some REIs, to in-service trainings for their staff on backpack and footwear fittings. When training, I will use practical demonstrations to show, step by step, how to do a proper fitting. Next, I will have students use a checklist I provide to conduct a hands on practice in fitting backpacks on each other. Before a session is ended, I will have each staff member role play working with a customer who is buying a backpack (or shoes). I ask the person playing the shopper to be extremely nit picky in how the end result feels when the fitting and adjustments are completed.

As part of the training, I always arrange for management to have me send in a 'shopper' 5 to 10 days after their staff was trained. Once the 'shopper' leaves the store with the backpack (or shoes/boots), I will check all the parameters of the fit and adjustments. Most times, the backpack and shoes are a spot-on match; but not always, and those oft times been significantly incorrect. I provide the feedback to the store management for his assessment of how s/he wishes to follow up with their staff.

If you go to a store including any REI, to try out a backpack but it feels 'off', the first thing to do is to ask if another sales staff can be invited over to double check the fit and adjustments with the original salesperson. Ask to have them both take another look at your initial measurements to make sure they were correctly measured as well as that the procedures to fit and adjust the backpack were correctly done.

It could be that the salesperson misread the tape measure OR did not correctly identify where to place the tape measure in relationship to the top and bottom of the spine. [Note: never allow the use of a manufacturers' provided template to act as a fitting device; these will not always give a good measurement due to an individual's unique, anatomical variations - like scoliosis, or a deviation to the shoulder or pelvic girdles. Such anomalies can interfere with the proper positioning of the template. This is more likely to become an issue as one is past middle age.

Always insist on a measuring tape, and the preferable style of tape to use is a highly flexible fabric or paper tape similar to what a clothing fabricator or tailor would use. Tapes that are cheap may also be less than accurate so keep that in mind, too.

Asking for additional assessment is NOT an insult to a sales person. Just tell the salesperson you are very interested in buying the backpack, but you want to completely rule out that the issues you are feeling about the backpack has nothing to do with how it fits. You simply want a second set of eyes to double check things and brainstorm a solution. Even an experienced sales person can be too complacent, distracted, or in a rush which may result in incorrectly 'seeing' the numbers, or incorrectly finding the proper locations on your body for positioning a hipbelt.

Your goal is to find a backpack that will become a great walking companion; it is also what the salesperson should be striving for. Do not worry about making the salesperson happy, worry about making your body happy. A happy body will help to make the camino pilgrimage a fond memory.

Additional Things To Ponder

Regardless of the backpack weight, your walking pace, or your daily fitness routines, etc., the key is to use common sense and reasonable expectations, follow any medical advice from you care provider, and avoid over exertions that can cause injury. Please consider the following:
  1. If you are new to distance walking and carrying a backpack, and you are wondering 'can I do this', it may be worthwhile to talk to your care provider for an honest assessment of your physical condition and listen to any concerns and suggestions that the provider may have. Please, consult with your physician.
  2. When testing the backpack at home, the load in the backpack should honestly reflect the amount of weight you are expecting to carry on a camino.
  3. If you discover that the weight of the backpack load is too heavy, then this is a good opportunity to evaluate how much stuff you plan to bring on a camino and whether a lighter version of those items can be substituted at a cost that doesn't break the bank.
  4. This Forum can help you to research how to lighten a backpack load by using the Forum Search Engine (at the top of the page in the blue menu bar, on the right side of the page). You can also start a thread and post a list of your backpack contents on the Forum. Members love to help, so do not be shy.
  5. Baggage transport is available. If the backpack is too heavy despite your best efforts, consider having a transport service carry some of your backpack inventory in a separate bag. You do not get extra Pilgrim Points and Gold Stars from being injured, or being miserable with a heavy backpack.
  6. When assessing the new backpack as part of a regular outdoor walking routine, you do not have to walk faster than your normal pace or walking speed, or walk extra-long distances.. It is far more important to spend time just wearing the backpack, even if what you are doing are normal household chores.
This is excellent. I walk a lot but am not keen on carrying. My compromise given that I’m Tui to Santiago is to carry less. I’ve found that after the first mile I hardly notice my pack. And yes this forum has been helpful re backpacks and shoes.
 
St James' Way - Self-guided 4-7 day Walking Packages, Reading to Southampton, 110 kms
Not all backpacks are created equal. Some are adjustable as to the length btwn the waist belt and shoulder straps, allowing a customized fit. I use a Bergans of Norway pack because at 6-7 I need one that can adjust to extra long.
For some reason, I am on the Amazon Chinese made pack of the day. Nice looking packs but don’t think I would trust them for the Camino.
 
Had a good chuckle in that I listened to experts…read various reviews and simply ordered the Gossamer Gear Gorilla 50L backpack.

It arrived today! Did I need a new backpack…absolutely not BUT I wanted one!

Tomorrow I will take it out of the box…look at the video on how to attach the hip belt and then do all the stuff that could have been done in the store except I live in Canada 🇨🇦 and well…no distribution as per Gossamer Gear.

It’s going to be a great backpack…because it was calling my name 😂🤣. And since I have a new backpack I booked flights for mid September 2022 Camino Primitivo and hopefully Salvador.

Guy
 
New Original Camino Gear Designed Especially with The Modern Peregrino In Mind!
There is a specific methodology that is used to properly size and fit a backpack. I cover that topic HERE (click on the blue text)

When an experienced backpacker on this Forum says that a brand and model of a backpack like the Osprey Stratos or a Gossamer Gear Gorilla, or a zPacks Arc fits them well, that is a recommendation worth listening to. Should you then simply commit to purchasing that recommendation? Definitely no. Individual tastes and body types and anatomical irregularities means that, like an organ transplant, what one person finds comfortable and compatible may not work for someone else.

How should we make use of recommendations, then? The best thing to do is to consider knowledgeable recommendations for inclusion on a short list of candidates for testing as a personal match.

[This above also applies to footwear].

Do you need to go to a store in order to purchase a backpack that fits? No.

I am a firm believer that most people can do the steps that it takes to properly fit a backpack while at home, which opens up a whole world of backpack choices. You are not limited to the narrow selections at a single store.

When choosing a store for a backpack purchase (or footwear) you will have better luck at a specialty outdoor shop like REI, IF it is well managed to include providing proficient staff training with quality assurance assessments of a salespersons skill. It is also important that the salespersons in the store do not appear to be harried if the store is busy, so only shop at hours when the shopping wave is at low tide.

Over the years I have helped many folks remediate issues with their backpacks and footwear that have been purchased thru an REI, and other specialty stores. Because of this, I would recommend not - as the first course of action - outright rejecting a backpack because it doesn't seem to 'feel' right' as you are testing it out in the store.

Why?

First: For a person in normal health ( you do not have unique physical issues that create challenges to achieving comfort}, it can often take time for your body to get used to the 'feel' of wearing a backpack, period. Everything from your center of gravity to your core muscles are doing something new, and It is likely that even a properly fitted and adjusted fully loaded backpack will feel odd and out of place. This is especially true if you are new to wearing a regular backpack designed specifically for hiking, but also applies if it has been a while since backpacking or hiking.

Therefore when assessing the backpack in the store, do not be immediately put off because it feels strange; that may mean your body just needs a period of time to adapt to the feel of carrying a backpack as a new activity.

What you need to focus on is if the backpack is just outright uncomfortable to wear. The sales person should load the backpack with around 25 pounds/11.3 Kg. of weight. Walk around the store for at least 20 minutes. If there is discomfort caused by pressure points or digging into your body from a frame, shoulder harness, hipbelt, etc., that is a red flag.

On the other hand, if the backpack only feels like it is being just a tad nagging or niggling, it may indicate that your body needs time to get used to carrying any backpack. That process will take more time than from just wearing it around the store.

Make sure the return policy of the store allows you to return the backpack at least two weeks after purchase before you take a backpack home. REI and other outdoor shops have a terrific policy for returning gear and shoes even IF you wear it outdoors on backpacking trips.

If you make a purchase thru an online store like Amazon, most times the return policies are excellent if the return is initiated within 30 days. You need to check the return policy information for specifics to be certain. If the online merchant is REI, for example, no problem. For an Amazon purchase, it can depend on the item, and if the shipping originates from Amazon itself or a third-party vendor

You will want to wear the backpack as often and for a long as you can during your at-home activities. If returns are allowed even if worn outdoors, then you can test it on long outdoor walks..

During this phase of testing for compatibility, load the backpack with between 15 to 25 pounds/ 7 to 9 kg. During the next 3 to 7 days, if the backpack begins to fade into the background so that it is no longer demanding attention, that indicates that it is a good match, not just for the 'fit', but for the 'feel', too.

You want a backpack that feels like you are wearing it, not carrying it as an external burden that is just hanging off of your body. You do not want the backpack to be demanding attention to itself, it must allow your mind to focus on the things around you that YOU want to focus on.

Keep in mind that no backpack will make the weight of a heavy load 'disappear' as if it does not exist. What a backpack should successfully do is to eliminate the nagging irritant of constantly asking, 'are we there yet?'

Second: It can be difficult to accurately asses a back if a salesperson is not doing a good job with the fittings and adjustments as you are trying out backpacks.

Over the years I have been invited by various stores, including some REIs, to in-service trainings for their staff on backpack and footwear fittings. As part of the training, I always inform the management that I will be sending in a 'shopper' 5 to 10 days after their staff was trained. Once the 'shopper' leaves the store with the backpack (or shoes/boots), I will check all the parameters of the fit and adjustments. Most times, the backpack and shoes are a spot-on match to the shopper, but not always; and when the fitting hadn't been correct, oft times it was significantly incorrect. I provide the feedback to the store management for his assessment of how s/he wishes to follow up with their staff.

At an outdoor equipment store, including any REI, if the backpack you are trying feels 'off', the first thing to do is to ask if another sales staff can be invited over to double check the fit and adjustments with your original salesperson. Ask to have them both take another look at your initial measurements to make sure they were correctly measured. Have them re-do the procedures to fit and adjust the backpack.

It could be that the salesperson misread the tape measure OR did not correctly identify where to place the tape measure in relationship to the top and bottom of the spine.

Note: never allow a salesperson to only use a manufacturers' provided template to act as a fitting device; these will not always give a good measurement due to an individual's unique, anatomical variations - like scoliosis, or a deviation to the shoulder or pelvic girdles. Such anomalies can interfere with the proper positioning of the template. This is more likely to become an issue as one is past middle age.

Always insist on being measured with a measuring tape, and the preferable style of tape to use is a highly flexible fabric or paper tape similar to what a clothing fabricator or tailor would use. Also, tapes that are cheap may also be less than accurate, so keep that in mind, too.

Asking for additional assessment is NOT an insult to a sales person. Just tell the salesperson you are very interested in buying the backpack, but you want to completely rule out that the issues you are feeling about the backpack have nothing to do with how it fits. You simply want a second set of eyes to double check things and brainstorm a solution. Even an experienced sales person can be too complacent, distracted, or in a rush which may result in incorrectly 'seeing' the numbers, or incorrectly finding the proper locations on your body for positioning a hipbelt.

Your goal is to find a backpack that will become a great walking companion; it is also what the salesperson should be striving for. Do not worry about making the salesperson happy, worry about making your body happy. A happy body will help to make the camino pilgrimage a fond memory.

Additional Things To Ponder

Regardless of the backpack weight, your walking pace, or your daily fitness routines, etc., the key is to use common sense and reasonable expectations, follow any medical advice from you care provider, and avoid over exertions that can cause injury. Please consider the following:
  1. If you are new to distance walking and carrying a backpack, and you are wondering 'can I do this', it may be worthwhile to talk to your care provider for an honest assessment of your physical condition and listen to any concerns and suggestions that the provider may have. Please, consult with your physician.
  2. When testing the backpack at home, the load in the backpack should honestly reflect the amount of weight you are expecting to carry on a camino.
  3. If you discover that the weight of the backpack load is too heavy, then this is a good opportunity to evaluate how much stuff you plan to bring on a camino and whether a lighter version of those items can be substituted at a cost that doesn't break the bank.
  4. This Forum can help you to research how to lighten a backpack load by using the Forum Search Engine (at the top of the page in the blue menu bar, on the right side of the page). You can also start a thread and post a list of your backpack contents on the Forum. Members love to help, so do not be shy.
  5. Baggage transport is available. If the backpack is too heavy despite your best efforts, consider having a transport service carry some of your backpack inventory in a separate bag. You do not get extra Pilgrim Points and Gold Stars from being injured, or being miserable with a heavy backpack.
  6. When assessing the new backpack as part of a regular outdoor walking routine, you do not have to walk faster than your normal pace or walking speed, or walk extra-long distances.. It is far more important to spend time just wearing the backpack, even if what you are doing are normal household chores.
@davebugg This post has been excellent in getting me to my "next" stage of understanding what a loaded pack should feel like (since I'm a total backpacking newb). Per your notes, I realized that onmy first backpacking trial at REI about a month ago, the salesperson, who was perfectly polite, was also helping 3 other people (I was the first one, though, and it was the last day of the sale, and she said they were shortstaffed.) Going in last weekend, it was much mellower, and my salesperson explained everything so clearly that I was eventually able to try on different onces by myself, and walk around the store whilst doing other things. Also, putting in the big 11 lb. weight vs. two 5 lb. bags of sand made a big difference, and even when a pack was not so comfortable, I at least didn't feel like I was going to keel over. Thanks so much!
 

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