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The calzada romana in Fuenfria

Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata 2010, Camino de Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo 2013, Olvidado, Invierno 2014
Dear all,

I'm looking at the maps of the route , the section between Cercedilla and Segovia.

When walking over the mountain, you also walk on the calzada romana for a while.
I wonder how long the camino follows that road.

If you look at this map, you can see the calzada romana, the grey dots, and a yellow road for bicycles:
http://www.revistaiberica.com/rutas_y_d ... index1.htm

I'm not sure, but the yellow road looks a bit like the camino? If you compare with this map:
http://maps.peterrobins.co.uk/google/ma ... yers=B00TT

They look the same. It turns right, for an extra walk.
Here's another map of the calzada romana:
http://jcamara.tripod.com/calzada/calzada.html

And here's an article about the roman road. http://www.traianvs.net/pdfs/2007_via_r ... enfria.pdf
Looks nice. Lots of maps too.

Ok, I'm getting to the point here soon. I want to walk the calzada romana as long as possible as it would be more fun. I assume/hope it is in real life the way it looks like on the first map: that the camino turns right, but the calzada romana goes straight forward, and if you follow the roman road you will soon be back on the camino.
Am I right? Or have I got it all wrong. Can you walk like that or how does it look like?

Hope someone knows.
Thanks and buen camino
Susanna
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Hi, Susanna,

I didn't read that article but I skimmed parts of it, and I believe that this is the article I've heard of that asserts that the so-called Calzada Romana up to Fonfria is actually of a much later vintage. I remember hearing that there was a big academic debate about this, because the grade of the "calzada romana" we walk on up to Fonfria is actually of a steeper grade than the romans constructed (and some other points I can't remember). So the first thing is that I think that the marked trail up to Fonfria actually goes on the Calzada Romana that these academics don't think is actually Roman.

But as far as the walking path, it is extremely well marked and goes off-road after a km or two beyond the youth hostal (which I recommend). I never did see a bike alternative and I remember thinking that it would be impossible for a bike to ride up the path I walked. There is no car access up to the pass, and you cross over an ancient bridge or two. It's all really beautiful.

I am just not sure about the "turning right" that goes off the Calzada romana, but in my memory you will see two parallel paths a stones throw from each other that come together, so you aren't really talking about much of a distance. If you bring your own maps you may be able to figure this out, but with the markings you can be sure to be on a pedestrian-only path up an extremely uneven, rocky "calzada romana" that leads to the bridge and over to the pass with the gorgeous views.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata 2010, Camino de Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo 2013, Olvidado, Invierno 2014
Hi Laurie!

It is the grey road I want to walk.
It is indeed confusing:)
I can't find a camino map of that area which is detailed enough.
Ive found another camino map of the walk over that mountain which looks different.
Even more confusing. They all look different.
I post that later today. I'm in the greenhouse now with my cat, watering my tomato plants:)
Susanna
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Hi, Susanna,
Rest assured that you will indeed walk on the grey dot path because I know that I crossed the two bridges shown, and only the grey dots go over those bridges.

I walked this route without any maps and went the way you want to go, so I think you will be fine. You will see the parking lots at the end of the car road, and from there it's just you and your feet and the Calzada Romana.

Buen camino, Laurie

p.s. not to add to the confusion, but have you got a place in mind where you want to stay in Cercedilla? There are two youth hostals on the road up the road from the center in Fuenfria, and I stayed at the first one, which is well-accustomed to taking pilgrims. The second one is a bit more off the road and may be less accommodating. And once, last year, when I was in Madrid for a meeting, I took a train to Cercedilla, stayed at the pension right on the edge of town, and walked to Segovia the next morning. So there are private accommodations as well!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata 2010, Camino de Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo 2013, Olvidado, Invierno 2014
Hi Laurie!
Now I'm back. I've found two more maps of the walk over the mountain.
Here is the first one:
http://www.mapacaminosantiago.es/camino ... egovia.htm

It looks different.

And here's the other one:
http://www.cuallado.org/esp/senderismo/ ... a/Ruta.htm

When looking at that one, I get totally confused. :) The path to the left looks like the "calzada romana", and the right one? Is that the camino, or just another trail? Laughing. I suppose all maps are just an idea of how it looks irl.

Anyway, thank you, and yes I want to walk the road where the bridges are. I've been googling "calzada romana" the last week and there are so many roads in Spain they say are roman. I want to walk them.

And I haven't (yet) thought about where to stay in Cercedilla. Good to know there are several options.

Thanks again Laurie!

Buen camino
Susanna
 
Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata 2010, Camino de Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo 2013, Olvidado, Invierno 2014
Just me again... :)

I now think I have solved (maybe) the problem.

Ok, this is how I think it is:
You start with this map of Camino de Madrid:
http://maps.peterrobins.co.uk/google/madrid.html?
Make it bigger and focus on Cercedilla and the walk over sierra Guadarrama.
When it's big enough, the camino will at the Fuenfria area look like a leg with a big boot on.
The camino turns right and you walk back south for a while, then turn back left and towards north again.
Here:
http://mareaenelmonte.blogspot.se/2011/ ... or-la.html
Another map! (Sorry :wink: )
Here you can see the orange road looking like the leg, that must be the camino!
But I want to walk the white road, the Calzada romana, which looks like a short cut! :)
And here, another map!:
http://www.mtbclubdecampo.com/salvar.ph ... errada.jpg
Do hope the link works. There one can see that there is indeed a shortcut And! another bridge!
I'm going to walk it.
Wish me luck.
 

Roger Hogstrom

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2001 and 2006,Parts of Via de la Plata 2007 and 2010 Camino de Madrid 2012,Camino de Madrid 2013, Camino de Levante 2014, Camino de Madrid 2015
When I walked this part last year I followed the yellow arrows and that was the road you call the "white road". I never walked back south.

Roger
 
Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata 2010, Camino de Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo 2013, Olvidado, Invierno 2014
Hi Roger!

That was interesting. :)
Then it means there's something wrong with the map of camino de Madrid? (The first link I posted)
I've been thinking maybe it's wrong because it looked odd with the extra walk south and back.
The day is long enough without it.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Roger's right, the arrows just take you straight up the Calzada Romana, no boot detour. I think the first map (of the Camino de Madrid) is tracing another path, with that big loop. You won't go that way, don't worry. Buen camino.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata 2010, Camino de Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo 2013, Olvidado, Invierno 2014
Phew... I'm glad to hear that!
Now I'm an expert on Guadarrama maps! :lol:

I wonder if the extra loop on the camino map was included in the 30-something km between Cercedilla and Segovia. In that case, its shorter now. :wink:
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Hi, Susanna,

Unfortunately, that loop that the Camino map shows is actually not the camino, so don't get your hopes up for a shorter day. :)

The way up to Fuenfria, and the kms along the ridge are not where you want a shortcut anyway, because its beautiful and green and has glorious mountain views. It's after you descend and have about 10-12 kms just slogging along in scrub and dirt bike trails, with SEgovia looking so far away -- that's where a magic shortcut should appear!
 

mmaxx

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino del Norte (2009-10, 2012), Camino de Madrid (2012)
Hi there - I haven't had the chance to read the various maps but I thought I'd add my opinion to this, since I had trouble when I walked this section.

Firstly may I warn you that during this section of the walk the trees have "yellow circles" marked on them - these, although the same colours as the camino arrows are not them at all, but rather point in the direction of the "Camino Schmidt", which goes up to navacerrada. Don't panic if you do see them - the route runs parallel to the Camino for a while, before going up to the right.

My understanding, based on the maps that I saw while there (there are some panels with information on the different routes) is that at some points the Camino follows the "Calzada Borbónica", which was built beside the Calzada Romana (And in parts on top), and is indeed of a much later vintage. However, if you follow the arrows you won't be able to tell the difference!

I hope that my not taking a look at all those maps hasn't make me state the obvious!

Max
 
Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata 2010, Camino de Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo 2013, Olvidado, Invierno 2014
Thanks Max, that's very useful.
I've never heard of Calzada Borbonica before. So it's good to know, as there must be (at least) three routes in the same area.
Nothing is obvious about the Camino de Madrid, it's all unknown land. :wink:
 

mmaxx

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino del Norte (2009-10, 2012), Camino de Madrid (2012)
This website is quite interesting: http://mayayo.blogspot.com.es/2012/01/r ... lzada.html

It has a picture of pretty much where the calzada begins in earnest - you can see a yellow arrow on the fence, and if you look closely the trees have painted "dots" or "circles" on them. The one furthest to the left has a green one, the one beside a yellow one. I for one found the yellow ones in particular a little confusing!

Max
 
Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata 2010, Camino de Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo 2013, Olvidado, Invierno 2014
Thank you Max, that was a very good link. Perfect.
It was interesting to read (translated it in google ;)) and the pics were great.
All these green and yellow dots and arrows in one spot! It does look very confusing.
Ok now I think I understand how the roads are there. Just a few weeks, then it's time to walk them. Will be fun. :)
 

mmaxx

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino del Norte (2009-10, 2012), Camino de Madrid (2012)
Good luck! It will be a great time of the year to walk it - although temperatures are starting to rise, the countryside is very green and beautiful at the moment! I must admit I'm a little jealous...

Buen Camino!

M
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
I do remember seeing references to the Calzada Borbonica. My impression is that it was a carriage route developed centuries after the roman road, mainly along the ridge. I also think that it will be obvious to you that the Calzada Borbonica essentially parallels the Camino (either higher up, or lower down, but both go forward along the ridge until some point at which they all merge).

Susanna, I am a person who always gets lost, but this is just not a place where people get lost. The maps may be unclear, but once you're there the route will be clear. Now all you have to hope for is that the skies are equally clear, so you can get the gorgeous views over the mountains from the pass at Fuenfria.

Laurie
 

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