• PLEASE NOTE: Please think twice before you travel to Spain now. More here.

Search over 55.000 Camino Questions

A donation to the forum removes ads for you, and supports Ivar in his work running it

Advertisement

The Economic Downturn

johnBCCanada

Active Member
Hello

I am writing from Canada where I and many of my friends and family are being affected by the global recession and I can't help wondering what effect that is having in Spain and what effect, if any, that might have on the Camino.

Any comments or information?

Regards,

John writing from a small town in British Columbia
 
Well, it's making the Euro & British pound more affordable for me & likewise Canadians as the exchange rates are improving. :) Of course, I'm still trying to find a decent airfare.... ;)

Kelly
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2006,08,09,11,12(2),13(2),14,16(2),18(2) Aragones 11,12,VDLP 11,13,Lourdes 12,Malaga 16,Port 06
You and me both, Kelly.
I haven't seen the economic downturn affect plane fares ... yet.
I keep hoping... :lol:
 

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Camino(s) past & future
Many, various, and continuing.
I am told to expect an increase of drifters and unemployed people taking up the pilgrimage, for lack of anything else to do, and because "stuff on the Camino is free."

So far I haven´t seen either.

Reb.
 

annakappa

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Part frances jun 07/rest frances may- jun 2008/Frances sept-oct 2009/ Sanabres Oct 2010/Frances sept-oct 2011/Aragones Sept-Oct 2012. Hospitalero Sept 2010, Amiga in Pilgrim's Office Oct 2013. Part Primitivo Oct 2013. Portugues from Porto June 2015.
I think that it's too soon to judge Rebecca - maybe as we get nearer Easter week. In any case, I think that many will be in for a shock if they think it's a free walk!
I DO think that perhaps many overseas travellers might think twice. Our 6 week round trip fare from San José, Costa Rica to Madrid and connecting to Pamplona and returning from Santiago to Madrid and then S.José costs just over $1.300 each and we consider fortunate not to have to pay more. We don't have many flight options here to travel to Europe and the Iberia flight is the ONLY direct flight. We have found out that the small extra charge to fly to Pamplona and return from Santiago will be far cheaper than taking the bus (which I prefer). Not to mention that we don't have to sleep over in Madrid (I much prefer an extra day in Santiago)!
For the Europeans, who can get to their starting point easily, perhaps there won't be much difference from last year.
Anne
 

annakappa

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Part frances jun 07/rest frances may- jun 2008/Frances sept-oct 2009/ Sanabres Oct 2010/Frances sept-oct 2011/Aragones Sept-Oct 2012. Hospitalero Sept 2010, Amiga in Pilgrim's Office Oct 2013. Part Primitivo Oct 2013. Portugues from Porto June 2015.
Ahi, sorry Rebekah, I spelt your name wrong! Anne
 

Timo

Member
Hello,
I read two weeks ago from Mundicamino that they expect the recession will hit the Camino in 2010. Maybe there´s a need for meditation, people may have more time for themselves or maybe it´s the only vacation they can afford. Let´s hope that we´ll get by or at least we could learn something from this?
-T-
 
Rebekah Scott said:
I am told to expect an increase of drifters and unemployed people taking up the pilgrimage, for lack of anything else to do, and because "stuff on the Camino is free."

So far I haven´t seen either.

Reb.


FFS!

This pisses me off a great deal. What was the Camino originally? It's now so middle class and up it's own arse as a holiday experience it's lost all meaning for many. And, why do you think 2010 has been declared as a 'random' Holy Year by some high up religious bod?

I've been turned away from so many albergues and other 'pilgrim' beds just for looking wrong. I don't have the right walking rods and labels on my backpack. The most interesting and genuine people I have met on camino so far have been 'drifters'. Not quite the drifters that used to join armies in the name of God in years gone by, but good, honest, caring people. Just because they don't have the money to pay for their Camino doesn't mean they're any less entitled does it?

This is pretty much why I don't get along with religion. Most believers are judgemental t**ts with absolutely no idea about reality.
 

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Camino(s) past & future
Many, various, and continuing.
Oowee! You preach it, bro!

We had a similar discussion recently in some other forum. You make a good point. But I hasten to add that the chitchat about "drifters" etc. didn´t come from anyone religious. It came from a group of working-class people who live along the camino. Some of them are now unemployed, and according to news articles lately, we are warned that more and more pilgrims are going to be asking residents for free food, lodgings, etc. in coming days. The people who are wondering how to keep themselves fed and employed are peevish about being expected to feed strangers too -- they´re feeling exploited. (also a legit point.)

I have never seen anyone turned away, though, unless they were obviously drunk or otherwise raving or scary. More often than not they send them over to my house. Still, as I said, I haven´t seen any increase in "drifters" or "gypsies" or "beggars." We haven´t even had any middle-class tourists stop in lately!

Reb.
 

JohnnieWalker

Nunca se camina solo
and ...errrr...it seems that the practice of having Holy Years when the feast of St James falls on a Sunday has been going on some historians say, since 1122. It isn't random and can be predicted into the future. But say what you feel Thelostphotographer - don't hold back :)

But. There is genuine concern along the camino routes and in Santiago at the pilgrim infrastructure being used by tour operators and also individuals who don't appear to have a genuine intent on journeying to Santiago.

It is understandable that at a time of rising unemployment people in rural communities will wonder whether or not there may be an increase in travelers less likely to spend money.

I think it more likely that there will in increase in numbers as people wake up to the spiritual bankrupcy of the grasping excess profit driven economy. The Camino has long attracted those seeking an experience of a different way of life.
 

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Camino(s) past & future
Many, various, and continuing.
Timo:
Good question. It´s someone who moves aimlessly from place to place, has no ties nor job nor ambition. At least that´s how I understand it.
 

Timo

Member
Rebekah Scott said:
Timo:
Good question. It´s someone who moves aimlessly from place to place, has no ties nor job nor ambition. At least that´s how I understand it.

I´ve been visiting this about three weeks now. I´ve read every Finnish book about the Camino and I´ve come to the conclusion that the camino means something to the people who walks, works or is some other way connected to it. Or maybe we Finns are too serious people. I´m not trying do my first hike as "adventure" or as an extreme physical experience. There´s something more to it. The more I read these pages the more I start to understand to idea of pilgrimmage. Thank you "veteran posters"
-T-
 
D

Deleted member 3000

Guest
I think a lot of middle class get the Camino experience. Many of them have built their lives through street credibility and struggle. I have met a lot of losers and drifters who lack the breadth of life experience of many in the middle class. Giving up on life often is not as useful in building character as sticking with it and bearing the burdens of the middle class, such as employment, military service, children, and compromise. I am not a believer, but I find inspiration in what believers show in their lives, their piety, and the way they interact with others. I think I would choose the companionship of believers before I would choose that of those who would reject believers just because they are believers. I know I would choose the middle class who are carrying the own weight over drifters living on the support of those who they hold in contempt. That is just my opinion; I could be wrong.
 

Timo

Member
Hello,
I agree with you Falcon. It all depends how much we are ready to do to others, how willing to help your fellow man. But how to maintain the positive attitude towards life in general when everything collapses around you? Let´s work together every boy, girl, woman and man.
-T-
 
Ooops! Sorry folks (especially Reb) if it counts for anything.

Sadly I have a bad reputation for mouthing off on the net and forgetting that there are actually real people at the other end. No excuses! Perhaps an attempt at an explanation; after walking a very long hike through the night I arrived in a small town called Tudela about a week ago. Searched for cheap accommodation and found all to be closed. Went to a hotel with €50 in hand that they refused to take!

I may look a bit ragged at times, but I keep clean and sensible. I ended up sleeping in a hotel doorway only to be woken by truncheon weilding Policia Local. Well, sorry for looking wrong.

For me, the real value of the Camino (whichever Camino it may be) is that it is there for all. We live in a free world and nothing should spoil the right to walk and roam this beautiful planet as we please. I've been very grateful for a free safe bed many times. I'm now making more cash than I've made for a long time (even during crisis) and have been more than happy to pay for others' beds as others' have paid for mine in the past.

The economic downturn isn't really going to be good for anyone short term, but if it encourages anyone, absolutely anyone to experience a long Camino, then it can only be a good thing.

Apolgies again for such an ugly post. No excuse...

I'm OK in real life. Honest!
 

Sagalouts

RIP 2015
"Apolgies again for such an ugly post. No excuse...

I'm OK in real life. Honest![/quote]
hey no need for apologies at this end,you reminded me of who I once was before I became middle-class ,not that I'm apologizing for that :D
hope you dont mind me listing your blog
http://www.thelostphotographer.blogspot.com
it put me in mind of one of my favorite books "As I walked out one midsummer morning" by Laurie Lee--another drifter.
Ian and Rosie.
 

Telluridewalker

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (1988)
Rebekah Scott said:
Timo:
Good question. It´s someone who moves aimlessly from place to place, has no ties nor job nor ambition. At least that´s how I understand it.

Didn't Jesus fit this description of a "drifter", wandering about the Middle East, no ties to existing religions, no employment and only ambition for others, not for himself? I wonder if he'd be accepted on today's Camino? :wink:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Telluridewalker said:
Rebekah Scott said:
Timo:
Good question. It´s someone who moves aimlessly from place to place, has no ties nor job nor ambition. At least that´s how I understand it.

Didn't Jesus fit this description of a "drifter", wandering about the Middle East, no ties to existing religions, no employment and only ambition for others, not for himself? I wonder if he'd be accepted on today's Camino? :wink:

There are many on here who are trapped within a certain 'worldly' way of thinking Telluride, the problem is that they don't believe that they are, having what Thomas A Kempis named blindness of heart
and
Matthew 6:24 comes very clearly to mind here

.... as for that drifter Jesus on the camino? Unemployed? eating free food in other people's houses? dusty and foot dirty from wandering? Always banging on about God? - wouldn't stand a chance, poor chap.

but then .... drifters ... here is a quote from the Zen Abbott Matsuo Basho (1644-94)

"The moon & sun are eternal travellers. Even the years wander on. A lifetime adrift in a boat, or in old age leading a tired horse into the years, every day is a journey, and the journey itself is home. From the earliest times there have always been some who have perished along the road. Still I have always been drawn by windblown clouds into dreams of a lifetime of wandering."

sounds good to me :wink:

As for the markets - the UK isn't in the euro. A year or so ago the exchange between sterling and the Euro was about £1 = 1.78 now it is about 1 = 1.04 - quite extraordinary. :shock:
 
D

Deleted member 3000

Guest
From NetWord on "drifter":
"The noun has one meaning:
"Meaning #1: a wanderer who has no established residence or visible means of support
Synonyms: vagrant, floater"

Lots of people "drift" including pilgrims, the retired, the unemployed, students, Jesus, and tourists, but that is not what the word attempts to convey when used to describe one type of person found on the Camino. The synonym "vagrant" best captures the meaning (from Merriam-Webster):

"noun
"Etymology: Middle English vagraunt, from Anglo-French vageraunt, from present participle of vagrer to wander about, alteration (influenced by Latin vagari to wander) of wacrer to wander, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English wealcan to roll — more at walk
"Date: 15th century
"1 a: one who has no established residence and wanders idly from place to place without lawful or visible means of support b: one (as a prostitute or drunkard) whose conduct constitutes statutory vagrancy."
 

francisco

New Member
Birds have nests, foxes have holes...

the thing to hold in mind is that the camino is not some kind of closed club for the "right" people with the right credentials, if "drifters" and "the unemplyed" etc are joining the mighty throng on the raod it's because economic circumstances have finally given them the opportunity to do so. Surely, the more people who can experience the life changing potential of the camino the better... the chance of enlightenment is surely not to be reserved for "the few"?

And then, don't we all go on the camino in the first place because we too are drifters deep down, in search of clues, indications, road signs...

The economic downturn is the natural harvest of the system which created it, it can be viewed as a positive as well as a negative. Newmn said "to change is to grow" - we shall see many changes in the near future, both on the camino and elsewhere, and hopefully, we shall grow.
 

francisco

New Member
People enter into thigs for many different reasons, what happens along the way is something else. Say some guy makes for the camino enticed by cheap food and an easy ride... and what he encounters are some of the deepest questions that a human being can ever face...

If we filtered out people for their "incorrect" motivations then we'd have a shortage of doctors and teachers, opera houses (and churches :wink: )would be empty, becoming a parent would be an etreme rarity...

how can we judge other people's motivations, how can we predict how the futre will change them en route?

human life is one great glorious circus filled with roaring lions, clowns, bearded ladies, and whip weilding ring-masters, it's a splendid show, we're all part of it and the important thing is to NOT BE AFRAID... even of scary drifters with pockets full of dodgy motivations :wink:
 

Timo

Member
Hello,
I see your point here. Still I´d like to question the motives of the people who want to achieve personal advantage of somebody else´s persuation.
-T-
 
D

Deleted member 3000

Guest
Lately politicians have hijacked the dictionary and blurred the meaning of words to achieve a political objective. Unlawful combatant. Terrorist. Inappropriate behavior. Mission accomplished. Financial inducement. When words stop having precise meanings or are used to describe too many things, they are not useful in conveying meaning.

If “drifter” is modified to cover Jesus, a philosopher with a purpose who happens to give the appearance of drifting, then the meaning of the word “drifter” is lost. Even calling a pilgrim a “drifter” just because he is drifting along the Camino depreciates the value of the word. A drifter may or may not be a danger to pilgrims, or a drain on the resources along the Way. Changing the definition on the term, however, does not illuminate that debate.

“Alice Through the Looking Glass” describes imprecise word use quite well:

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'
`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'
`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master -- that's all.'
`When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, `I always pay it extra.'
 
And, if you lie to yourself so many times you'll begin to believe you're right.

Or, summat like that.

Beginning to realise that this isn't the forum for me.

You say 'drifter'. I say (deleted by Ivar)

:D

(deleted by Ivar)
 

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Camino(s) past & future
Many, various, and continuing.
Was it something I said?
Or maybe the readers´own presumptions?

I tell it as I see it and hear it. People say things to me out there, and I tell it here. Maybe what´s said is offensive to you. Maybe you feel my personal prejudices or blindnesses are revealed thereby. Maybe I have lots to learn. Maybe it makes you feel righteous, seeing how un-worthy I can be. Maybe you feel you need to teach me something.

I can tell you this:
We´ve had people stop here at our house for coming on three years now, and we made them welcome. Some were pilgrims. Some were tourists. Some were, yes, drifters.

Most of them stop and cool off or warm up or dry out a bit. They have a bite to eat or a cup of tea or a glass or a bottle or three of wine... we stamp their credential, refill their water bottles, see them off. Most we will never see again.

Most are great people. Maybe even "middle-class," with the "proper" walking sticks and zip-off pants and Everest-worthy hiking kit. Some of them are outrageously generous and kind to us.

And some of them are bad-tempered, high-maintenance, and/or whiny. Some are self-absorbed, or gluttonous, or outrageously cheap or rude. Some of them, sure, take advantage of our good nature. But none of them, so far, has been evil. No one has ever tried to steal from us, nor hurt us, nor really done us any real harm.

I´ll admit I met three rather scary drifter guys in the past year, out on the camino. They were not people I would want in my house. I am not ashamed to say so. None of them would ever be mistaken for Jesus, even Jesus in one of his less-than-Good Shepherd personae.

And I can name at least three certified Drifters who have stayed here with us for weeks or months at a time. They worked and toiled to help us build this place, at little more than minimum wages and room and board. They needed to make some money to continue on the camino, so they stayed long as there was work for them. They slept in damp rooms with plenty of creatures for company. They got up early and worked late. Two of them come back periodically -- usually just when we really need a strong back and willing hands: Thomas, the Croatian Dutch plasterer. Anselmo from Valencia, who made our woodpile happen. Patrick the Czech, who helped me lay a floor and taught me heartbreaking folk songs, too. And Belgian Sebastian. Ian from Scotland. Michael from California.

Yes, long as I am human I will suffer from some sort of spiritual blindness, I am sure. But if living on the Camino has taught me a couple of things, they are these: The person at the gate may be one of the Enlightened Ones, or even The Christ himself. And conversely, I may be the only Jesus this person at the gate ever sees.

...and I still hope one or two of them leaves a donativo in the box, because we only have so much to give away.

Reb.
 

francisco

New Member
Rebekah your posting is so beautiful and I don't think any of this is to do with anything you said, it's just a semantic debate, though I think through it people are expressing their fears of the "other" - fears that you not only overcome but totally over-ride welcoming the stranger into your hearth and home.

and what follows is not directed at you at all, this I wrote in response to Falcon's interesting posting about words and meanings...

but one of the strengths the English language is its flexibility (ambiguity?); any one word can contain a great colour chart of meanings. Which is why English is so good for poetry and less good for things requiring precise definitions like philosophy or science (which is where, apparently, German comes in handy). The English thesaurus is thick and lovely - the very breakdown of one word into all its myriad of different meanings and implications reads like poetry itself. Perhaps then Humpty, and Dylan Thomas (and indeed Lewis Carroll himself) are right then; words can mean what you will them to mean. Anyway, I digress.

The “drifter” debate is a bit like the “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” . What I'm thinking is that “drifter” is being used here in a pejorative sense - Jesus as far as we are concerned did have a purpose, and as far as the people who executed him were concerned he was too effective. But there must have been those who saw him pass with his band and labelled him "drifter" or "hippie" or "one of the great unwashed" “a drain on society” etc (or the 1st century equivalent). Similarly those we are ready to label "drifters" nowadays may well be entirely clear about their own purpose, they just make us nervous as they don't fit into our neat classifications in which we catagorize people according to their achievements. Jesus can't have seemed to have been much of an achiever by the time they nailed him up; his mates had deserted him, he'd been executed in the manner most humiliating for Jews and nothing he had done had been written down or recorded. And yet... well even if you don't happen to be a Christian you have to at least admit that he shifted the philosophical goal posts definitively.

so we have a case of one man's drifter is another man's paradigm (or Messiah).

If we live entirely in the present - and this is my Lenten exercise this year, a very interesting one it is too - then in a sense we too become drifters as we relinquish control; instead of anguishing over the future and needing to have plans set out to step neatly into, we wait to see what life throws in our path and welcome whatever it is (Rebekah does this with flair!).

And you’re right, being a Pilgrim is not the same as drifting: pilgrims do have a definite goal. But is drifting then a state of mind or a physical manifestation – do we become a pilgrim because we are tired of drifting and do we stop being a drifter once our feet are directed on the path however nebulous our goal/motive (what do the relics St James mean to most on the road?) If so, then drifters, once on the camino, will stop being drifters and become pilgrims, and as pilgrims aren't frightening (unlike drifeters) then no-one has anything to worry about.

...unless it is their "motive" to continue to drift... in which case their lives should be declared "art" and they should be award the Turner prize without further ado :)
 

Deirdre

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francés (2007), Camino Francés (2008), Camino Portugués (2010), Camino Aragonés - from Lourdes (2012)
One of the (many) things I learned on the Camino was not to judge the motivation of others. Sometimes Pilgrims choose not to talk about their motivation to others. I was one of those Pilgrims. The ever present question... "Why are you on the Camino?" was not a matter I elected to discuss for public consumption. Even the pilgrims with whom I became dear friends did not know my true motivation. It was private.

It is extremely easy to sit in judgement of other pilgrims. I (am ashamed to say) did it. They didn't walk as far as I, they didn't carry their pack all the way, they got up too early, they stayed up too late, they made too much noise, did this or than in a different manner than the one I chose. We do it right here on this forum all the time.

Who is to say that other pilgrims are wrong and we are right? Perhaps we are the ones who are wrong... or just maybe we are all different... and that takes some tolerance.

In the Middle Ages pilgrims were sent to the Camino and to Santiago as penance. Do you suppose their motivation was pure and they were happy to endure the hardship? We have the benefit of choosing to make the Camino. And most of us dont' have to endure too much hardship that we don't readily accept.

I've seen first hand the "magic" of the Camino at work on pilgrims. I know from my own experience that pilgrims are vastly changed by the Camino. I am not about to judge the motives of Pilgrims for I cannot know how the Spirit chooses to work among them. At times Pilgrims don't even know themselves how or why they are called to the Camino, yet they are there...and their purpose may yet be unknown even to them. I certainly don't presume to know.

We all come to the Camino with our experiences and prejudices. It can be difficult to let go of them. The goal is to find balance; evil exists everywhere, the Camino is no exception. We need to take care and to help one another as best we can - give when and what we can and take what we need. We are not all going to be the same. What on earth would be the point of leaving home if everyone you met were just exactly like you?

Buen Camino,
 
D

Deleted member 3000

Guest
If you are easily offended, don't click:

[Edit by Ivar: Thanks for bringing this to my attention Falcon... I did remove this reference in the comment above. Since the reference above is gone, I removed this link here as well.]
 

Telluridewalker

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (1988)
I threw out the Jesus reference more as a "don't judge a book by its cover" bon mot...and look what happened! Thanks Deirdre, I think you picked up on it.

But then again and still, those of you who think that all who trod the Camino are basically good should read Rebeka's latest website post on cleaning up behind dirty peregrinos- it brought a tear to my eye. :cry:
 

colinPeter

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SDC (2009) Somport-Jaca, Burgos-SDC, Cee-Muxia (2012) Le Puy - Aumont-Aubrac (2014) SJPP-SDC (Oct 2015)
Telluridewalker said:
....But then again and still, those of you who think that all who trod the Camino are basically good should read Rebeka's latest website post on cleaning up behind dirty peregrinos- it brought a tear to my eye. :cry:
Just had a read.
Thank you Rebekah Scott and Paddy O´Gara, from Helen O'Connor & Colin Giddins.
When I get mad at those who litter along the way, I'll try & think of you two, before I start swearing like Paddy.
Col
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2006,08,09,11,12(2),13(2),14,16(2),18(2) Aragones 11,12,VDLP 11,13,Lourdes 12,Malaga 16,Port 06
Lots of good discussion here.

From my experience, I'd translate "drifter" to be a person like one of my cousins, homeless by choice, mentally unstable, hooked on a variety of drugs over time, skilled but no job by choice, dirty body and hair and nails, and who ended up dead in an alleyway from exposure after drinking himself into oblivion. If we had not been related, and I had passed him on a dark street, I may have crossed to the other side, because he was very scary looking.

On the other hand, I try to remember that the way I REMEMBER him as a child was as a loving, fun, sweet-spirited, smiling little boy.

His parents were broken, and so he ended up broken.

I personally believe he should have been institutionalized for his own safety and where he could have perhaps found help for his mental issues. Our government, unfortunately, has chosen to turn those types of people out onto the streets to fend for themselves.

Jesus, on the other hand, drifted, but had a message to share. Yes, he depended on others to feed and house him, in exchange for that message. That is very different from my cousin.

On the OTHER other hand, someone like John the Baptist may have been a bit frightening, like my cousin, wearing skins and living in the desert, a bit of a ranter/raver.

So who's to judge?
The Holy Spirit - or if you're not a believer, your gut instinct or your Higher Self or you Superconsciousness, whatever you call it. That "feeling" you get when the hair on the back of your neck stands up and you feel VERY anxious. Many of us have forgotten how to listen to that. Others have been conditioned by the media to be on CONSTANT alert and thus, paranoid.

But somewhere in the middle is the truth.

I'm sorry you were turned away from refuge when you needed it.
But the fact is, shit happens.
And it often happens to good people.
It doesn't mean the rest of us are bad... it just means you learned a GREAT lesson about how NOT to treat others.

I also feel strongly that people have the RIGHT to say no to someone who wants to sleep in their house. Even the lady who turned away the bug-bitten people... I have empathy for her. To let then in, knowing they're infested... and being as horribly reactionary to bedbug bites as I am, I can't say I would have done differently. She was just afraid. As may have been the people who turned you away.

So ::shrug::

All you can do, as a pilgrim, is bless them and walk on.

I'm rambling and drifting now.. so I'll stop.
But this has been a great, thoughtful discussion.
 

Advertisement

Booking.com

Similar threads

Camino Conversations

Camino Conversations

Forum Rules

Forum Rules

Forum Donation

Forum Donation
For those with no forum account, it is possible to donate here as well. Thank you for your support! Ivar

Follow Casa Ivar on Instagram

Most downloaded Resources

When is the best time to walk?

  • January

    Votes: 16 1.2%
  • February

    Votes: 10 0.8%
  • March

    Votes: 56 4.2%
  • April

    Votes: 200 15.1%
  • May

    Votes: 329 24.9%
  • June

    Votes: 96 7.3%
  • July

    Votes: 24 1.8%
  • August

    Votes: 27 2.0%
  • September

    Votes: 381 28.8%
  • October

    Votes: 158 12.0%
  • November

    Votes: 17 1.3%
  • December

    Votes: 7 0.5%

Camino Forum Store

Camino Forum Store
Top