The new Compostela - certificate of distance travelled

[Magwood]

Further to the current thread on measuring distance I would like to pose a question.

On attending the pilgrims' office in Santiago I was pleased to be offered the new certificate of distance (for a fee of 3 euros).

I had measured my distance walked from Lisbon on a gps device, which I believe is very accurate. I took a couple of diversions which would have added less than 20 km to the standard path.

John Brierly's guide stated the distance for the camino Portuguese from Lisbon to be 615 km. My gps told me I had walked 670 km. Nevertheless, I was expecting my certificate of distance to state 615 km and I would have been happy with this - mas o menos.

However the number of km's written on my certificate is 575 which made me somewhat dumbfounded. Where does this arbitrary figure come from, does anyone know?

I feel rather inclined to take a biro and change the initial '5' to a '6', which would be much closer to the truth of my camino. What is the distance given on the certificate for the camino Frances from SJPP I would be interested to know?

(Just in case someone takes this too seriously, I am writing somewhat 'tongue in cheek'!)

 

[Magwood]

I queried the distance written, but the Amiga concerned was just looking up the info on a list of starting points, and couldn't offer me any useful answer. They were all very busy with a long queue of pilgrims to deal with, so I just went on my way.

 

[peregrina2000]

I was volunteering in the pilgrims' office in May and wrote up a lot of these. There is a list (actually several lists) of distances and I don't know exactly where the distances come from. I remember that there were a lot of discrepancies-- Sarria showed up as 112 or 116, etc.

My advice to people in the future is to know your distance and tell the person writing the certificate. So long as it's reasonable, they will be most obliging in my experience.

And Maggie, you could always order another one through Ivar and give careful instructions on what the number of kms is. If you tell them you had a gps and this is what it said, I would be stunned if they gave you any problems.

 

[Trude]

Further to the current thread on measuring distance I would like to pose a question.

On attending the pilgrims' office in Santiago I was pleased to be offered the new certificate of distance (for a fee of 3 euros).

I had measured my distance walked from Lisbon on a gps device, which I believe is very accurate. I took a couple of diversions which would have added less than 20 km to the standard path.

John Brierly's guide stated the distance for the camino Portuguese from Lisbon to be 615 km. My gps told me I had walked 670 km. Nevertheless, I was expecting my certificate of distance to state 615 km and I would have been happy with this - mas o menos.

However the number of km's written on my certificate is 575 which made me somewhat dumbfounded. Where does this arbitrary figure come from, does anyone know?

I feel rather inclined to take a biro and change the initial '5' to a '6', which would be much closer to the truth of my camino. What is the distance given on the certificate for the camino Frances from SJPP I would be interested to know?

(Just in case someone takes this too seriously, I am writing somewhat 'tongue in cheek'!)

View attachment 11368

Hi .... I also have just finished the Camino Norde and when offered the certificate of distance I thought I would support the office with the 3 euros, but It was'nt something I particularly wanted. When I got my certificate it said 803km.
This is wrong, my book said 867 and I walked that and more with a few unwanted diversions. I too wondered how on earth they came up with that number. Maybe it is the road miles or as the crew flies but I know I walked so much more than that and that is the main thing.

I know someone that went back and made them change their Camino Francais one as the Kms were ridiculously low,
They did......So if you are not happy they will change it but that is ridiculous in itself. They need to get it right......

I was volunteering in the pilgrims' office in May and wrote up a lot of these. There is a list (actually several lists) of distances and I don't know exactly where the distances come from. I remember that there were a lot of discrepancies-- Sarria showed up as 112 or 116, etc.

My advice to people in the future is to know your distance and tell the person writing the certificate. So long as it's reasonable, they will be most obliging in my experience.

And Maggie, you could always order another one through Ivar and give careful instructions on what the number of kms is. If you tell them you had a gps and this is what it said, I would be stunned if they gave you any problems.

...

 

[mralisn]

Arrived in SdC yesterday after walking Camino Norte/Primitivo. Walked into office near half 9, and only one other person getting Compostela at that time. It was very claim and peaceful. I wasn't offered this option. No matter, 2 days away from the sea now. Very content to have made it this far.

Confident your post will assists others who would like.

Trust in you,
Simeon

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi .... I also have just finished the Camino Norde and when offered the certificate of distance I thought I would support the office with the 3 euros, but It was'nt something I particularly wanted. When I got my certificate it said 803km.
This is wrong, my book said 867 and I walked that and more with a few unwanted diversions. I too wondered how on earth they came up with that number. Maybe it is the road miles or as the crew flies but I know I walked so much more than that and that is the main thing.

I know someone that went back and made them change their Camino Francais one as the Kms were ridiculously low,
They did......So if you are not happy they will change it but that is ridiculous in itself. They need to get it right......



...

I wouldn't be too hard on the pilgrims office. The workers there are stressed and trying to so their best. I also wouldn't be too quick to assume that the distance given in a book is any more accurate. The distances vary tremendously from one book to another.

Should the certificate include our trips to a grocery store or to an off-road church? Should they adjust depending on whether you went via Samos or San Xil? Or if the camino was flooded and you had to go via the road for a while? I think this is a hopeless proposition and there will never be accuracy. Maybe this is an argument for forgetting about these certificates and sticking with the compostela or its non-spiritual alternative. And besides, it just makes the wait much much longer at the pilgrims office.

 

[anniethenurse]

The distances can differ from one month to another or from one year to another year due to road works and detours...the local amigos are in charge over the routes, etapas and waymarking. Sometimes they change the etapas and make us walk through pittoresque villages instead of road side walking.

So no book can be very accurate.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I don't begrudge a successful fund raising activity, but this certificate is such a bad idea!

 

[ranthr]

I don't begrudge a successful fund raising activity, but this certificate is such a bad idea!

I like the new certificate, the Compostela does not say where I have walked from, this does, the number of km does not matter in my opinion.

 

[ranthr]

Huff da!

 

[Mark Schipp]

Yes, I was disappointed when I got mine also. I walked from St Jean to Finisterre and Muxia but my certificate says 775km.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I walked from St Jean to Finisterre and Muxia but my certificate says 775km.

Google Maps says it is 831km on foot from SJPdP to Fisterra.

 

[Caminomary525]

So a question: how does the distance certificate treat "disjointed" caminos? If I walk Roncevalles to SDC in three separate segments, does the certificate use Roncevalles or Leon, the starting point of the last segment (and ending point of the previous segment) to calculate distance?

 

[Dutch]

My opinion, if you do something, make sure you do it right. This also goes for the pilgrim office. Its not that hard to get a distance right these days. So many accurate ways to calculate it. This has nothing to do with detours, floods, walks to supermarkets ect... If you do something and want people to pay for it, make sure it is correct.

One thing is for sure, the pilgrim office is just as accurate as ALL the distance signs allong the way. In that way they are very consistent

 

[Deleted member 3000]

My opinion, if you do something, make sure you do it right.

The best argument for not doing it at all. Add bragging rights to a compostela, and it is like a miniature silver plate botafumeiro.

 

[Kanga]

What do you get for walking multiple times? Pleasure!

 

[Kitsambler]

Its not that hard to get a distance right these days. So many accurate ways to calculate it.

Except that ... there are so many ways to calculate the distance, because the more detailed the route, the longer it will be.
Explanation: If one goes from point A to point B (say roughly 100 km) in one segment, it will be roughly 100 km. If you place your data points at shorter intervals (say every km), the route is longer. Put the data points every 100 m, it is longer still. For some cartographic applications, every 10 m is theoretically possible, making the calculation longer still.
Bottom line: It is possible that all the quoted figures for a given route are in fact correct, depending on the measurement method.

 

[ParistoCapeCod]

Why is this important to you?


Heading westward on the norte

 

[bystander]

I know some guys for whom the journey to the local bar is 200m.
But the return journey is 220m.
Go figure!
On a more serious note. How do you measure a distance? Two dimensionally on a map? Three dimensionally as walked and recorded by a GPS?
This problem was one that confronted people trying to calculate the length of the coastline of a country. How many of the indentations and inlets do you measure to arrive at a correct measurement?
At some point there has to be an arbitrary compromise.
With a similar compromise for the various Caminos there ought to be an agreed list of distances from the various start points to SdC, regardless of diversions and excursions indulged in.
However and lastly, surely the purpose of the Compostela is not about bragging rights?
Is it?

 

[peregrina2000]

After reading all of these posts, and thinking about how impracticable it is to get agreed-upon distances, maybe the moral of the story is that the certificado de distancia should be re-designed to eliminate the number of kms. Starting point, and starting and end dates ought to be sufficient, don't you think?

 

[bystander]

After reading all of these posts, and thinking about how impracticable it is to get agreed-upon distances, maybe the moral of the story is that the certificado de distancia should be re-designed to eliminate the number of kms. Starting point, and starting and end dates ought to be sufficient, don't you think?

YES

 

[Magwood]

After reading all of these posts, and thinking about how impracticable it is to get agreed-upon distances, maybe the moral of the story is that the certificado de distancia should be re-designed to eliminate the number of kms. Starting point, and starting and end dates ought to be sufficient, don't you think?

I agree Laurie that it will be impossible to please one and all, and on reflection I just agreed to buying the certificate because it as offered, not because it was important to me. I shall keep it tucked in its tube and I hope the revenue from the certificates is a useful boost to the pilgrims' office funds. The credencial, for most of us, will probably remain our most treasured memento of our pilgrimage.

 

[maytru]

Yes, I was disappointed when I got mine also. I walked from St Jean to Finisterre and Muxia but my certificate says 775km.

Mark we walked from SJPP to Santiago and also got 775 on our distance certificate ☺

 

[Houlet]

I too got a certificate stating 775 km from SJPdP to Santiago along with start date and finish date and I'm happy with that as a clocking up a few km either way was not the purpose of my journey.

Like "CaminoMary" I would be interested to know how the certificate records multi-trip caminos, does it states 775 km and records start and finish dates years apart or only the distance of the final section to Santiago.

 

[Peter Hulme]

I walked from SJJP to Santiago my gps stated 508 miles,I think the problem is Brierley gives so many alternative routes how can anyone walk the same distance.

 

[Peter Hulme]

One thing I realised ,does it matter how far you have walked,I did not care about the certificate,I knew I had done it and had the best month of my life.
What is a few miles when you have walked that distance and learned and achieved so much.

 

[Magwood]

You are right that the distance is not so important to those that have walked. But the first question I get asked when talking about my caminos is always 'how many miles/km's did you walk?'. So other people are very interested to know.

My original post was just to ask who decides the number of km's on the list, and although this question hasn't been answered, there have been some very interesting responses. Thanks everyone!

 

[DrGubs]

I was happy to have survived, glad to have met so many wonderful people and didn't care at all what was on the paper...

Buen Camino

I now 6 months post Camino miss the peace and joy that was my Camino!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

the first question I get asked when talking about my caminos is always 'how many miles/km's did you walk?'.

Conversation normally avoids interesting questions for the mundane. You would be set aback a bit if the first question was "where did you go to the bathroom?" and other more personal questions, the ones that really are on the minds of others! Your first question is a popular one, followed by "why did you go?", and "was it difficult?"

 

[Coinrolls]

Wow, Magwood! I think the certificate is neat-o and whoever filled it out has such beautiful handwriting. I think it's nice they offer it, and good luck with your biro!

 

[Purrrrple Panda]

Does it really matter? You can't measure a spiritual journey.........

 

[Coinrolls]

Yes, to some people the distance they walk matters. To others, yes, like you said, the journey is purely spiritual, and the distance they travel cannot be measured. To others, who knows? My daughter will walk because I'm walking, and her reason will be to see churches, castles, and hopefully her cousins. If there is one Big Thing I've learned so far, it is that the Camino de Santiago means different things to different people, and everyone will have matters, issues, and questions that are unique and important to them. Such is life.
~Blessings

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Hola - I've just caught up with this discussion.

The certificate of Distance was introduced this year in response to a long standing demand from many pilgrims to have the distance they covered recorded on a certificate. As you know this year the Cathedral of Santiago introduced new Compostelas and Certificates of Welcome so it seemed timely to also introduce a certificate recording distance. It is proving very popular.

The length of the many Camino routes is measured in many different ways by Amigos Associations, Local Authorities, guide writers and so on. There is no standard approach. Good guides will state how the distance is measured - for example "from the cathedral in Lisbon to the cathedral in Santiago". Others might say how they measured the distance - using maps, timings, GPS and so on. But every guide writer I know has their own methodology.

Also the Camino routes are not static. Often there are temporary diversions due to road construction. At other times there are re-routings which are negotiated by local Associations, historians and Local Authorities. Sometimes routes are changed by local businesses who want pilgrims to pass their door!

Therefore different sources give different distances. Take the OP as an example.

Magwood's GPS said she walked 670 kms from Lisbon to Santiago with a diversion of about 20 kms = 650 kms

The Brierly Guide sets the distance at 615 kms

The CSJ guides put the total distance at 610 kms

The Eroski Guide states the distance is "approximately" 600 kms

A new gismo http://caminometer.hike-tech.com/ says the distance is 573 kms

And the Pilgrims' Office data base says the distance is 575 kms

I have been talking to the local Amigos Association in Portugal - they laughed and said they were all possibly true because some of this route has been subject to so much change it depends when the measurements were made as well as how they were made.

As Magswood said she probably walked 650 kms as recorded on her personal GPS. Since the Certificate of Distance is simply another memento of the pilgrims' journey and not the official distance of a race or an Olympic record I would happily have written 650kms on the Certificate. Nowadays pilgrims with GPS devices are perhaps the most reliable source and of course the very long distance pilgrims can tell you down to the fraction of a km how far they have walked.

On every route I have walked and with every guide book I have used I have disagreed with the stated distance at some point. The distances in guidebooks are for me a general guide. I think that the Camino Frances is possibly the exception to this as the etapas are so well known and walked - but even on that route there are some interesting discrepancies between the distances on http://www.godesalco.com/plan/frances and http://caminometer.hike-tech.com/. Have fun!

John

 

[Houlet]

Thanks for the info John.

As you knoe the CoD records number of kilometres as well as start and finish dates.

Just for interest do you know how they record multi-vist caminos? Do they record the dates walked or the distance walked on the last trip?

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Hola Houlet

The Certificate of Distance is intended as a record of the journey ending in Santiago therefore what we usually do is enter the original start date and place and the final date of arrival in Santiago.

I hope this helps.

John

 

[Houlet]

Hola Houlet

The Certificate of Distance is intended as a record of the journey ending in Santiago therefore what we usually do is enter the original start date and place and the final date of arrival in Santiago.

I hope this helps.

John

Than seems to me the best solution,


Thanks

 

[nalod]

At times I despair (maybe that should be disappear).

 

[Olivares]

My Certificate of distance from SJPDP to Santiago reads 775 Kms. Oh, well... I was just happy to get one. I also got the St. Francis of Assisi special celebration Certificate--- I actually felt more connected to that one than to any of the other 2....

 

[biloute]

I don't know where they get the distances at the pilgrims' office, but the lady I saw said the Camino (starting in Le Puy) is about 1000 km. It most definitely is not! All calculations I've seen indicate there are about 1600 km, a huge difference. But anyway, she said she would write whatever distance I decided I'd walked, so I told her my calculations and she wrote down the number.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

All calculations I've seen indicate there are about 1600 km

1,505 according to www.Godesalco.com.

 

[Lotta]

From Pamplona to Santiago we made 400 km's walking. I told the volunteer at pilgrimsoffice and he wrote that down. A great memory for my daughter, 16yr! (We arrived to Santiago last monday!)

 

[Deleted member 3000]

From Pamplona to Santiago we made 400 km's walking.

It is 708 according to www.godalseco.com!

 

[annakappa]

Personally I think this certificate of distance is a waste of time. It is creating double work for the folk behind the desks in the Pilgrims Office. This, of course, is creating longer queues waiting outside ( or at least that is what I am reading on various reports regarding the waiting time).
After all, we all know, roughly, how many Kms we walked. We've done sooooo much researching before we ever start the Camino. Do we REALLY need a certificate for this? Anne

 

[amorfati1]

I suppose that for people who attribute lots of meaning to measures/numbers, diplomas and certificates, it can be another fine momento of the pilgrimage.
It was only after I stepped out of the pilgrims office w/ the compostela in hand that i vaguely remembered that they have this certificate to offer.... and I realized that it simply would not hold meaning for me at all: if i walked 498 km or 523 or 466 or anything else in between. - Plus i thus eliminated that 'headache' of debating if it's the correct distance or not. I wouldn't know either way ... and at that point, my feet did not care either. they were just grateful i gave them a rest
Proper measuring has it's place and time, - and for me it just wasn't one of those times and places.
I was serenely compostela'ed ... and still in proper working order (all limbs and insides unharmed) tired probably... and very contenta!

 

[Lotta]

We had bus and train between some places. That's the point and good thing. You can have your real walking distance !

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Personally I think this certificate of distance is a waste of time. It is creating double work for the folk behind the desks in the Pilgrims Office. This, of course, is creating longer queues waiting outside ( or at least that is what I am reading on various reports regarding the waiting time).
After all, we all know, roughly, how many Kms we walked. We've done sooooo much researching before we ever start the Camino. Do we REALLY need a certificate for this? Anne

1 Buying in the Certificate of Distance is not compulsory
2 It raises essential funds to employ paid staff in the Pilgrims' Office - in a country where there is 25% unemployment
3 Because of this and other strategies more paid staff are now employed than in any previous year
4 A separate "group office" which receives organised groups is now open and fully staffed
5 A "next please" machine has been installed and is working very well
6 Waiting times - how short are the memories - gone are the hours spent on the stairs in the old office at Number 1 or the 5 - 6 hour queues during the Holy Year. We recently issued 2,200 compostelas in one day with waiting just over 1 hour. By 2pm today we had issued 660 compostelas with a waiting time of 35 - 45 minutes.
7 40% of pilgrims request a Certificate of Distance
8 Over 100 members of this forum have ordered one

Lesson - if you don't like it, don't buy it - but please leave a donation anyway!

 

[peregrina2000]

My biggest pet peeve from volunteering in the pilgrims office is the number of pilgrims who failed to leave a donation even when I pointed out the box and said that it was there for their donations. So often a pilgrim would take the compostela, take out some money and ask how much it cost. When I said it was a donation/donativo, the money went back in the pocket.

As we all know from our endless discussions about donativo albergues, donativo does not mean free.

 

[amorfati1]

My biggest pet peeve from volunteering in the pilgrims office is the number of pilgrims who failed to leave a donation even when I pointed out the box and said that it was there for their donations. So often a pilgrim would take the compostela, take out some money and ask how much it cost. When I said it was a donation/donativo, the money went back in the pocket.
As we all know from our endless discussions about donativo albergues, donativo does not mean free.

Am stunned / speechless. - had no idea! (growing up in europe, we had a term for behaviour/conduct for people who acted like that: "people from the tribe of Take")
(the word DONO (italian: gift) is in the term donation. It's about the spirit of giving ... and one can always give, regardless of how little or much money is in ones pocket. Not feeling free and willing to give says lots about a persons spirit/heart. )

 

[Magwood]

My biggest pet peeve from volunteering in the pilgrims office is the number of pilgrims who failed to leave a donation even when I pointed out the box and said that it was there for their donations. So often a pilgrim would take the compostela, take out some money and ask how much it cost. When I said it was a donation/donativo, the money went back in the pocket.

As we all know from our endless discussions about donativo albergues, donativo does not mean free.

Laurie, are you referring to the distance certificate here, as I thought there was a standard charge of 3 euros? Or is a donation asked for the standard issue Compostella? I was not asked for a donation for this, and unfortunately didn't think to offer one!

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

I walked from Leon via Oviedo but that was not an option regarding distance at the pilgrim office. No the distance should be 310 km from León according to their records. I tried to explain that I didn't walk on the Francés

The one that was issuing my Compostela didn't know about Camino San Salvador either and the queue was long and I did not want to spend time arguing with her. So I gave up. I don't need it I was just curious of what they looked like.

Maybe they measure as the crow flies? ;-)

Well well I don't need it I was just curious of how they looked like.

 

[Al the optimist]

1 Buying in the Certificate of Distance is not compulsory
2 It raises essential funds to employ paid staff in the Pilgrims' Office - in a country where there is 25% unemployment
3 Because of this and other strategies more paid staff are now employed than in any previous year
4 A separate "group office" which receives organised groups is now open and fully staffed
5 A "next please" machine has been installed and is working very well
6 Waiting times - how short are the memories - gone are the hours spent on the stairs in the old office at Number 1 or the 5 - 6 hour queues during the Holy Year. We recently issued 2,200 compostelas in one day with waiting just over 1 hour. By 2pm today we had issued 660 compostelas with a waiting time of 35 - 45 minutes.
7 40% of pilgrims request a Certificate of Distance
8 Over 100 members of this forum have ordered one

Lesson - if you don't like it, don't buy it - but please leave a donation anyway!

Well said matey. I hope people realise point 2 is so very important as some people's idea of a donation is well to be kind questionable.

 

[Tony Jansen]

@Beatrice: Everyone here knows that you're one heck of a trekker.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

@Beatrice: Everyone here knows that you're one heck of a trekker.

He he. Well the distance and time is not important.

I left a donation instead

 

[Sue M]

Well, I walked from SJPdP to Burgos, then a few months later I walked from Leon to Santiago but omitting a few bits, then a couple of months after that I walked from Sarria to Santiago, then this year I walked from Le Puy to Conques. I know I've walked 450 miles along the Way, but it wouldn't fit neatly on a certificate! i'll have to design my own!

 

[lydlod]

Talking of new certificates, did anyone get the one celebrating the pilgrimage of st Francis 800 years ago? I found out after I left for England and wondered if there was a way to get one sent?

 

[Riseson]

I had ordered one too and the distance was 775kms from SJPDP (even though I have the photo where I'm standing next to a sign in Ronsesvalles that says 790 to go!) We laugh and call it "Camino Kms" because those last 2kms always ended up being like 5kms more.

 

[supersullivan]

I had ordered one too and the distance was 775kms from SJPDP (even though I have the photo where I'm standing next to a sign in Ronsesvalles that says 790 to go!) We laugh and call it "Camino Kms" because those last 2kms always ended up being like 5kms more.

Risedon, think that's the distance if you go by road all the way as in driving a car. I did really love the signs near Ciruena advising facilities 500 meters ahead, 15 minutes brisk walking ( about 1.5 kms ) I still hadn't arrived. Brought a top quality hiking G.P.S. with me earlier this year when going from Ponferrada to Santiago, found Brierley's distances were understated by about 4 to 5 % most days.