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The Santiago Enigma

#1
update July 2010
In a christian (book) shop in The Hague:
Is there a book on the essence of The Santiago Enigma? - No!
Will such a book ever be written? - No!
Isn't that very strange? - Yes!
Why are you so sure about this? - Your question has been asked me twice before and I discussed it with a few bishops in America.

Pilgrimage is of all people, faiths, sferes and ages - for hunters, gatherers and smorgasbordians:
Er is geen weg naar de vrede; vrede is de weg - Simon Vinkenoog
Truth is a pathless land - Jiddu Krishnamurti

Summer 2009 continued on
http://the-santiago-enigma-continued.blogspot.com and http://king-early-days.blogspot.com
All my 200 forum posts introduced on http://pilgrimsplaza-pilgrimage-to-sant ... ogspot.com

21-5-9 NEW: The Santiago Enigma - clues
http://the-santiago-enigma-clues.blogspot.com
http://the-santiago-enigma-gateway.blogspot.com
Faces in the London Pórtico de la Gloria - breathtaking culmination of the camino
All these faces are cut out of pictures of the plaster copy in the Victoria & Albert Museum at London of the Pórtico de la Gloria in Saint James's cathedral at Santiago de Compostela in Spain. Courtesy and © (permission given on 22-5-9) of Mr. Gareth Thomas who took these on the eve of his pilgrimage from England through France to Santiago.

Quote of the year by my neighbour Erik Jan de Jong:
"The origin may be vague, but the veneration is real"


The Santiago Enigma
1. Why Santiago or Fisterra?
2. Why Saint James or Priscillian?
3. Why millions of secular pilgrims?
4. What Enigma in the Pórtico de la Gloria?
5. How jewish Jacobus became catholic James
6. More reviews of The Way of Saint James coming
7. Here is #1: Ja’akov en Jacobus – is the name a sign?

(by Mrs. Ria van der Pot & Mrs. Marianne Lodder, posted below on March 31st, 2008, 5:25 pm)


This beautiful Santiago Forum, ‘where past pilgrims share and future pilgrims learn’, is the best place to ask these questions that have kept me wondering over the last quarter of a century. The recent reprint of The Way of Saint James by Ms Georgiana Goddard King is a good occasion because Ms King deals with some of these questions. This is only a small part of her very rich classic on the history of art and the cult of Santiago. You could ask: Why now? Hasn’t this been discussed before? Not, I must say, to my knowledge, except by Ms King; speaking of enigmas!
See for reviews of Ms King’s book in the section Pilgrim Books: http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/b ... c3657.html .

The Santiago Enigma
Arriving in Santiago on Plaza de Obradoiro and entering Saint James’ cathedral gives one a very strong almost overwhelming feeling. Back home you may keep wondering for years –like I did- why that feeling stays so strong? Well, perhaps because there is more than meets the eye at first glance. You may be seeing more than you realize. In these chapters we are going to explore those images and questions and we would like you to join us. This will be a wonderful trip into the magic realm of the oldest stories within the usual ones.
We’ll give you some clues to discover this Enigma of Santiago in the narthex of Saint James’ house and other intriguing aspects. All you have to do is sit down with your back against the wall –like I did in 1983- and scan that stone bible for some time, open your hearts and minds and read master Matthew’s great message about yourself. You may share your impressions and feelings with your fellow pilgrims here if you like. It would help if you could read Ms King’s Way of Saint James before you leave! On-line flip books and pdf files make that easy and comfortable.

1. Why Santiago or Fisterra?
What is it that compels pilgrims through the ages to journey to the end of the world as it was known to mediaeval western society? What enigma is Santiago harbouring? What is happening at Fisterra? Why do people want to go west? Even ¡Ultreya! means: Go west as far (ultra) as possible

2. Why Saint James or Priscillian?
The Camino is said to be the burial route for Saint James from the Holy Land as well as for another martyr Priscillian, who was beheaded at Trier (Trèves, in Germany) in 385. Does it matter whose bones are buried in Santiago or Mondoñedo? Is it not more important that they shared (and this we can agree on) the aspects of the end of our mortal lives, of going to where our then known world ended and the sun sets, of the only certainty in life: death?

3. Why millions of secular pilgrims?
Thousands per year? Of course! Tens of thousands? Why not! Hundreds of thousands? Maybe! But millions!? There must be something there which compels and attracts so many secular pilgrims!

4. What enigma harbours the Pórtico de la Gloria?
Sitting with my back against the wall in the narthex back in 1983 I suddenly saw the message contained in master Matthew’s stone bible. Only recently when I was answering a post on Priscillian in this forum I completely understood that it works like a two sided mirror that talks back. Ms King gives us a clue in rather vague words but you can see with your own eyes what’s going on there. If you can read her book first you will, however, be better prepared! Read for instance in Volume 3 on The Mortal Twin. On-line flip books and flat text pdf files make it easy and comfortable. Also see http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/b ... c3915.html .

5. How jewish Jacobus became catholic James
or: 5a. How jewish Ja'akov became roman Jacobus and catholic James, or: 5b. How James became jacobean
Not an enigma but a very interesting question is how the NT-apostle Jacobus came to be named James. He was the brother (Ms King even calls him a twin) of Christ and second-in-command after Him. Was the name James given deliberately or did it develop in time and language? Is it perhaps connected with his postmortem developing of faith from jewish to christian?
Elsewhere in this forum jacobean names for sheep and flowers are already being discussed. As will be explained below he was most likely named after the OT-patriarch Jacob (of Jacob’s ladder and Bethel). Recently I found this nice picture (below) of IACOBUS VI D.G. MAGNÆ of BRITANNIÆ, FRANCE ET HIBERNIÆ REX and I wondered why he wasn't called James. Please let us know if you've read other books or found more posts on this forum that answer these fascinating questions!

This book may also offer more clues online: Aliens and Sojourners: Self as Other in Early Christianity - by Benjamin H. Dunning - "Early Christians spoke about themselves as resident aliens, strangers, and sojourners, asserting that otherness is a fundamental part of being Christian. But why did they do so and to what ends? How did Christians' claim to foreign status situate them with respect to each other and to larger Roman world as the new movement grew and struggled to make sense of its own boundaries?" [...]
"Through close readings of ancient Christian texts such as Hebrews, 1 Peter, the Shepherd of Hermas, and the Epistle to Diognetus, Dunning examines the markedly different ways that Christians used the language of their own marginality, articulating a range of options for what it means to be Christian in relation to the Roman social order."
Also reviewed in BMCR 2010.05.24: http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2010/2010-05-24.html & http://books.google.com/books?id=9I1hEy ... navlinks_s

5a. How jewish Ja'akov became roman Jacobus and catholic James
See the first two pictures below; is this a coïncidence or is there more than meets the eye? Towards the end of Summer 2008 I found clear answers in part ONE chapter 6 The formation of Christianity in The Messianic Legacy (sequel to The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail) by Baigent, Leigh & Lincoln, 1986, ISBN 0-552-13182-2. At first sight we 'believe' that the observations of our three heroes are to the point and making sense, so please enlighten us if they don't! http://www.alibris.co.uk/booksearch?qwo ... ng*buyused price: €1,51 or more.
[94] 6 THE FORMATION OF CHRISTIANITY
[95] Acts offers a more or less reliable historic account of Paul's dispute with the Nazarean Party, which would culminate in nothing less than an entirely new religion.
[96] By A.D. 38, Jesus was being openly proclaimed as the Messiah -- not the Son of God but simply the rightful and anointed king -- by Nazarean refugees, or perhaps established communities, as far away as Antioch. It was here, in the Syrian capital far to the north of Damascus, that the term 'Christian' was to be applied to them for the first time. Until then, they had simply been called Nazareans. And they continued to be called Nazareans elsewhere -- especially Jerusalem -- for many years.
In A.D. 38, a centralised Nazarean authority was already well established in Jerusalem. By later Christian chroniclers, this administrative hierarchy was to become known as 'the Early Church'. Its most famous member, was, of course, Peter. Its official head, [97] however, conspicuously neglected by later tradition, was Jesus's brother Jacob, known subsequently as Saint James, or James the Just. By this time, the Magdalene, the Virgin and others of those closest to Jesus had disappeared, and there is no further mention of them in scriptural accounts. It is certainly reasonable to suppose that later assertions are accurate and that they sought refuge in exile. What is significant, however, is that it is not Peter, but Jesus's brother James who presides over the 'Church' in Jerusalem. Quite clearly, some principle of dynastic succession is at work. And it can hardly be coincidental that James is referred to as 'Zadok'.4 [98] At last, around A.D. 62-5, James, head of the Nazarean Party in Jerusalem, was seized and executed.
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[455] Eisenman, R.H., Maccabees, Zadokites, Christians and Qumran (Leiden, 1983)
--- James the Just in the Habakkuk Pesher (Leiden, 1986)
[469] 4 Eisenman, Maccabeus, p.5, referring to Eusibius, History 2:23. Note that in Arabic James is Saddiq Ja'aqob (Eisler, Messiah Jesus, p.499).

More in http://king-early-days.blogspot.com

Also see: http://www.mystae.com/restricted/reflec ... hurch.html :
(3) James the Just
"The disciples said to Jesus, 'We know that you are going to leave us. Who will be our leader?' - Jesus said to them, 'No matter where you are, you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being.'" - Thomas Logion 12
James' title, the Just or "Righteous One" (Zaddik) was borne by claimants to the High Priesthood, a lineage that dated back to the time of King David. - James is an English rendition of the Hebrew Jacob by which he would have been known by his Jewish contemporaries.
"Tyndale was...a good Oxford-Cambridge trained Greek scholar and based his translation on the 3rd (1522) edition of Erasmus' Greek text (which later was to be called the textus receptus). He consistently rendered the Greek IAKOBOS as 'James.' Thus, in the first chapter of 'The epistle off Paul unto the Gallathyans' he has Paul say: 'Then after thre yeare I returned to Jerusalem and abode with hym xv dayes / non other off the Apostles sawe I / save James the lordes brother.'
"It should be noted that the text was printed on the continent in German Gothic script, so there was as yet no distinction between a capital 'I' & a capital 'J.' Thus, Tyndale really rendered IAKOBOS as IAMES." - Mahlon Smith (CrossTalk) --- The first used of James in place of Jacob may have occurred in John Wycliff's English translation of the Bible ca. 1375 CE.

PS: 1-10-8 Yesterday I was advised the Heidelberger catechismus for more clear answers on short questions. It looks promising but it still may take some time!

6. Already 14 reviews of The Way of Saint James
Almost four years ago I started collecting reviews from pilgrim friends. We already have 14 contributions (mostly in Dutch) that will follow here as soon as possible after getting permission and translation. Now we start with one that answers some questions on naming James after Jacobus or Jacob under the title: "Ja’akov and Jacobus - is the name a sign?" It was posted below on March 31st, 2008, 5:25 pm after being translated into English, which proved a little difficult with the names of Jacob, Jacobus and James, as Peter foresaw!

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
More reviews will follow asap.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

To all pilgrims:
Please read The Way of Saint James before you leave* and write a review on any aspect.
Thank you very much!
Geert
* When you read it after returning home you'll surely want to set out right away again!

The Way of Saint James

For comfortable flip book reading:
http://www.openlibrary.org/details/wayo ... 01kinguoft ; http://www.openlibrary.org/details/wayo ... 02kinguoft ; http://www.openlibrary.org/details/wayo ... 03kinguoft ;

For an easy and quick browse through all the flat texts:
http://elcaminosantiago.com/PDF/Way_of_ ... mes_01.txt ;
http://elcaminosantiago.com/PDF/Way_of_ ... mes_02.txt ;
http://elcaminosantiago.com/PDF/Way_of_ ... mes_03.txt ;

To the full index http://pilgrimsplaza-king-index.blogspot.com ;
To my English home page http://king-early-days.blogspot.com ;
To my Dutch website home page http://www.pelgrimspaden.nl ;
To my e-mail address in all my 29 internet weblogs > Comments 1.

For ordering the reprint from the source: http://www.pilgrimsprocess.com/events.htm

Also see http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/b ... c3657.html and http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/b ... tml#p20259

And at last for our Dutch pilgrims: http://santiago.nl/links.php
and http://www.santiago.nl/nieuws_20080414_ ... enigma.php

New 21-6-9: Some comments on The Santiago Enigma by PILGRIMSPLAZA on June 21st, 2009, 10:03 pm on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/b ... tml#p37089

Discussions to be continued on http://king-early-days.blogspot.com
 

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Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
#2
Ah, Pilgrim Geert, but you anticipate me once again!
Did you notice that those Heavenly Musicians who arch so gracefully across the Portico are Laughing as they tune up for their Final Performance?
Quote: "There must be something there which compels and attracts so many secular pilgrims! " Yes, perhaps that is the Ultimate Enigma!
Tracy Saunders
http://pilgrimagetoheresy.com
P.S. I'll have to order copies of Ms. King. Reading online gives me a headache!
 
#3
Priscillian said:
Did you notice that those Heavenly Musicians who arch so gracefully across the Portico are Laughing as they tune up for their Final Performance? Quote: "There must be something there which compels and attracts so many secular pilgrims!" Yes, perhaps that is the Ultimate Enigma! P.S. I'll have to order copies of Ms. King. Reading online gives me a headache!
Ah Tracy, thank you so much for your kind reaction! For the second time writing to you made me understand the Gloria better. A long time ago I read in a book on sculpting how wonderful that pair of Heavenly Musicians connects the two halfs of the arch that we also may see as the spheres of heaven. It was master Matthew's brilliant idea to use that long instrument to bridge that gap. We could also see it as the meeting of a metaphorical East and West, couldn't we? That's the way to look at the Gloria to really see what there is to watch. I do hope that you'll earn that lunch! You are getting very close to the enigma I'm talking about. Please consider choosing that last first print with dusk jacket (con camisa) from Madrid. A friend sent http://users.drew.edu/vburrus leading to http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals ... urrus.html but perhaps you already knew?
 
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Anonymous

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#4
PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
I do hope that you'll earn that lunch! You are getting very close to the enigma I'm talking about.
Oh, Geert: I hope you're not going to make it too easy. Can a spiritual enigma be reduced to the level of a breakfast-time crossword puzzle? If it can be so reduced then it will not be worth seeking out, surely?

On the other hand there are no hidden mysteries, but only one unhidden mystery: God loves us.

And that is all. The lovers of mysteries always find that one, unhidden, astonishing mystery, very hard to accept. But it is all.

Gareth
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#5
PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
I do hope that you'll earn that lunch! A friend sent http://users.drew.edu/vburrus leading to http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals ... urrus.html but perhaps you already knew?
Oh dear, Geert. Having enticed me with your compelling suggestion about the enigma of the Portal de la Gloria, you now give references to the above places. There is nothing here of any value. If you are looking at real tradition, you cannot combine that with references to feminist theology. That may be very interesting in terms of modern culture, but it offers nothing for those who explore the Camino. If that is disappointing, find another Camino!

Sorry: we're either exploring an authentic tradition or we are playing games with post-modern semiotics. We can't do both: it is neither intellectually useful nor spiritually viable. There's only one loyalty on the Camino, and that's Catholic tradition. It is out of that tradition that the Camino was born, and it is that tradition - which offers an encounter with Christ on the road - that keeps the Camino alive.

Mysteries are all around us and they are very dull. The Reality who wakes with us and walks with us on the Camino is commonplace and exciting, for He is at once ordinary and the source of our being. I'll take a look at the Portal de la Gloria when I get there for the fourth time in July... but it will be a secondary mystery. The main mystery is the one St James died for, proclaimed, and evangelised Spain for: the mystery of our Redemption.

We must always seek to keep it simple. There is no 'mystery' beyond the mystery of our salvation. If there is something more, we do not seek it. That is what a pilgrim to Santiago should understand and follow. It is that simple: Catholic faith and Catholic virtue. The Camino can become a whole complicated knot of mysteries, or it can simply be what it always has been: a longer way of doing what you can do in your local church, queue up and go to confession.

Gareth
 

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#6
Gareth Thomas said:
I hope you're not going to make it too easy.
No, Gareth, I'll not give it away like I've been asked before but stick to what is already mentioned. Anyway, nobody needs clues; it really is your way of looking. This is basicly not about religion but about art and craft of passing messages in stone in times without paper! Perhaps knowlegde about contexts doesn't make it easier. I guess it was all clear for 'illiterate' medieval stone bible readers. Perhaps that's why it was never mentioned in books because it is so simple and obvious. It's not a new thing either, it's been there for ages. Words like easy or difficult are also not relevant here.
Yesterday I had a very Good Friday when me and my best pilgrim friend feasted on a large bowl of delicious local bouillabaisse in Scheveningen. It turned out however that he referred to yet a slightly different aspect so the enigma is still safe. Now isn't it wonderful, that good friends have a good Santiago topic to discuss over a good lunch. I've always said that there is only one thing 'true' about our Gemmez (Normandian name for Jacques and James): that he gives you good friends. I wish you and I could have that lunch one day. Read King!
 
#7
Gareth Thomas said:
There is nothing here of any value.
Ah Gareth, I like your faith and respect your convictions very much and in fact I'm a little jealous. I do wish I could believe like you but I can't so I'm condemned to work a little harder. I'm not sure if the case of feminism is relevant here but Ms King made me conscious and Tracy's first post just triggered me and I like the way they both look. I'm convinced that our differences are smaller than they may look now and I do believe that we'll all meet somewhere one day; perhaps halfway? That would be a marvelous party! I do hope that you will choose to stay on board of this trip!
 
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Anonymous

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#8
PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
I do hope that you will choose to stay on board of this trip!
Oh yes! There's no doubt about that. I've downloaded my copies of the three volumes of King. My pilgrimage will take me through Chartres on the way south, so I'll have another opportunity to renew my conversations with medieval iconography there, in the place where I first learned to read the stones and the glass, with Emile Male as a guide.

Re-reading what I wrote above, I've probably put it too dogmatically and even a shade pompously(!) Nevertheless, I do stick to the view that the Catholic roots and tradition of the Camino need to be respected. There are people running businesses on the Camino who want to stamp your credencial with images of Hindu gods (vegetarian refugio at La Faba) and wizards in pointy hats (Cafe Bar Lino, O Pino), etc. You can get tantric massage, have your palm read, tarot readings, crystal gazing, all the way along the Camino. That's fine, if you like that sort of thing. It's a world in which people make their own choices and it's all on offer; and inasmuch as these things are simply cashing in on the renewed popularity of the Camino, that's maybe what you can expect to see much more of. But it comes at a price. One thing I have heard from friends of the Camino in Spain is a concern that this creeping change of emphasis is accompanied by a marketing mentality on the Camino, and as huge new private refugios are being constructed at various points this commercialism goes hand-in-hand with a market place of 'feelgood' spiritualities and vague mysticism.

I believe the Camino can survive that, but only if it is tackled head-on. It is perhaps for that reason that I am a little wary, and I'm sure you understand.

Gareth
 
#9
Gareth Thomas said:
You’re making some good points again, Gareth! In my early days as a professional pilgrim in a large tourist club it was my job to give any information on the camino I could provide. Then I couldn’t say in public “The best travel advice is: Stay home and read!”, but the thought did cross my mind seeing how ill-prepared some pilgrims set out. This problem has never left my mind as some of my friends know but I wouldn't know what to do about it! Life can be hard and we can't solve all problems!

Also my eldest pilgrim friends in those days were furious when trees and picknick sites appeared on the meseta. So yes, there is a lot to worry about. Answering your last remark I do understand what you mean but I think these questions should be discussed in another topic. In the way I see my subject here respect is not an issue!

About Chartres: I remember Saint Jacques in a window with deep red and blue stained glass in the back behind the choir a little to the left. I wonder if you could find Daniel’s ‘sorriso’ there too on the face of a statue; see http://consellodacultura.org/wp-content ... orriso.pdf.

Will you do the labyrint on your knees like in the old days? I'll never forget a pilgrim in Fatima on her knees crossing the square that is larger than St Peter's in Rome. She had a child on her arm and was surrounded by family in their best black and white outfits. You could see that she was suffering badly. Talking about respect! I wish you a good voyage and many fine memories!
Geert
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#10
PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
He was the brother (Ms King even calls him a twin) of Christ and second-in-command after Him.
There's always a lot of confusion about the different people called James. James the Great (or Greater) is the brother of the Evangelist John, and they were both - possibly - cousins of Jesus. See the article on St James in the Catholic Encyclopedia: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08279b.htm

On the question of the separate James (known as 'brother of the Lord') see: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm

And on the confusion of various James's:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08280a.htm

Hope this helps. There are of course various interpretations of scriptural references to James, but the confusion about St James and the other James comes right out of the medieval period! It was a world in which the Gutenberg Bible had not yet arrived, so the confusion is understandable: people couldn't check their texts, and references to James were merged in the popular mind. It is still happening...

Gareth
 
#11
Gareth Thomas said:
There's always a lot of confusion about the different people called James.
Thank you very much for this beautiful and comprehensive post, Gareth! It is nicely in line with our goal “to answer some questions on naming James after Jacobus or Jacob under the title: ‘Ja’akov and Jacobus - is the name a sign?’”. That new contribution is now being translated from Dutch into English, which “proved a little difficult with the names of Jacob, Jacobus and James” as stated on top of this page.
I’ve mailed your text to the authors and we hope to discuss it Wednesday at lunch in a newly renovated church of Saint James between The Hague and Rotterdam: http://www.ophodenpijl.nl. It so happened that this very impressive renovation is the life-work of two Santiago pilgrims! Our initial text will start from a totally different point of view, however, so that could spark a fine debate that hopefully will lead us back –as intended- to Ms King’s vision on whom our Jakkez was. - Geert
 
#12
For some more comfortable reading: [King – The Mortal Twin + Notes – Easter 2008]

HISPANIC NOTES AND MONOGRAPHS I
THE WAY OF SAINT JAMES
by GEORGIANA GODDARD KING (1920)

Volume 1: BOOK ONE: THE PILGRIMAGE: chapters I – V pp 1-134
Volume 1: BOOK TWO: THE WAY: chapters I – VIII 135-463
Volume 2: BOOK TWO: THE WAY: chapters IX – XVI 1-514
Volume 3: BOOK THREE: THE BOURNE: chapters I – VII 1-370
Volume 3: BOOK FOUR: HOMEWARD: chapters I – III 371-710
chapter VII THE ASIAN GOD 278
The Mortal Twin 334-346
NOTES 484-489

[334] The Mortal Twin.
[Meat for my black cock
And meat for my red . . .
--George Peele.]

At this point it becomes necessary to consider those apocryphal Acts of the Apostles which brought Pricillian to martyrdom, 1 and with them, the general confusion of mind, in the early centuries of the church, about the name and character of certain of the Apostles. [Romances of the Apostles] There was a time when these pious romances supplied reading to the devout. S. Toribio, whom we have met on the Pass of Rabanal, as he came back from the Holy Land with relics some time before 440, 2 was very active against the Priscillianists and denounced them as reading the Acts of S. Thomas, S. Andrew, and S. John, and with these the Memorials of Apostles, which are not otherwise known. Yet S. Silva of Aquitaine, on her journey sixty years before, 3 had read the Acts of S. Thomas at Edessa, and elsewhere those of S. Tecla, as a matter of course and with edification, [335] precisely like those sentimental travellers who read Le Jardin de Berenice at Aigues Mortes and the Chanson de Roland at Roncevaux.
About certain of the twelve Apostles, and disciples, equally, the situation is not very clear: even the lists in the canonical Gospels do not agree. Some, like SS. Peter and Paul, John and Barnabas, are plain, their names, their burial places: but again, as Michael the Syrian says 4 [A Jacobite Bishop] rather dolefully, there are only three names for six Apostles, which is hard. Some of them are brothers, some of them are commemorated in couples. James was the brother of the Lord, but which James?
"Thy Mother and Thy brethren are without'' -- which are brethren? The genealogy which the Golden Legend offers, it will be remembered, is this: 5
(i) Anna married (a) Joachim, (b) Cleophas, (c) Salomas, and had three daughters all called Mary: (2) Mary Virgin married Joseph and Jesus was her son: (3) Mary Cleophas married Alphaeus and her children were James Minor, Simon, Jude called [336] Thaddaeus (called also Addai, be it noted), and Joseph Justus [James called Justus: Compostellan Breviary] called Barsabas (whom I know only as a name) : (4) Mary Salome married Zebedee and her children were James and John called the Sons of Thunder, Boanerges. But the situation was not so clear in earlier centuries nor in the east. Michael the Syrian (1166-1199) says, 6 for instance, that James Zebedee was persecuted at Jerusalem and martyred by a fuller's mallet: with James Alphaeus he brackets Simon the Canaanite called Zelotes and also Nathaniel, who preached in Syria at Aleppo and Mabog (Bombyce, which is Hierapolis) and was martyred at Cyrrhus where his church is. But Theodosius in his treatise On the Topography of the Holy Land 7 says that "Cosmas and Damian lie there at Cyrrhus, not the famous physicians however." The point is apparently that twins lie there and Simon is a twin.
The next Apostle whom Michael the Syrian names is that Thaddaeus whose surname was Lebbaeus, who is Jude the son of James. He was sawn asunder at [337] Berenice, which is Berytus, says Chabot; now Berytus, or Beyrut is the sea-port of Heliopolis. After the list of Apostles he proceeds with the seventy disciples, of whom the first is Addai that preached in Edessa and baptized King Abgar, died and was buried there. Fifteenth comes Jude the brother of James; twenty-sixth Simon the son of Cleophas; twenty-eighth James [… qui el Judas] who was killed with his brother; Mark and Luke figure as forty-third and forty-fourth; fiftieth, John who was thrown to beasts in the theatre of Baalbek! The son of Narses king of Persia who was born during a flight and was brought up in Membig which is Hierapolis, was sent to Edessa on an errand and saw the church built by Addai. 8 From this sample the confusion may be judged.
In Jerusalem the two Apostles called James were for a long time confounded. Theodosius (c. 530) who makes Cleophas one of the pilgrims of Emmaus, says 9:

S. James whom the Lord ordained bishop with his own hand, after the Lord's [338] ascension was cast down from the pinnacle of the Temple and suffered [S. James in Jerusalem] no hurt, but a fuller slew him with a pole on which he used to carry his things and he was buried on Mount Olivet. S. James, S. Zacharias, and S. Simeon were buried in one tomb which S. James had built, he buried the others there and left directions that he should also be laid therein.

Two things are notable here: one that the the fuller's mallet belongs to S. James as [The Mallet God] the instrument of his martyrdom, but it was already the axe of Adad; and the other that the sepulchre with three bodies found at Santiago in the ninth century, existed at Jerusalem in the sixth.
Antoninus Martyr, who was such another as Aymery Picaud, writing about 560-570, [A good companion] mentions the great earthquake at Berytus in which, the Bishop told him, 30,000 persons perished there; this will be what shook down the sanctuary at Heliopolis. He testifies: "On the Mount of Olives rests James the Son of Zebedee, and Cleophas and many bodies of saints."10
[339] And he is trustworthy as Aymery, and like him took his notes on the spot.
John of Wurtzburg (1160-1170) saw the church of S. James in the hands of [" . . . A Gallegan without a head ..."] Armenians, as it is still presumably: "He was beheaded by Herod and his body was placed by his disciples on board a ship at Joppa and carried to Galicia but his head remained in Palestine and is still shown to pilgrims" 11 . . . . An anonymous pilgrim who was in Jerusalem before 1187 saw "the Lord's temple where He was presented and whence He cast out those who bought and sold and from whence James the Lord's brother was cast down." 12 The Citez de Jherusalem, composed after that date, says that there is the church of S. James of Galicia who was the brother of S. John the Evangelist; that at Joppa under a castle in the church of S. Peter is found the cloak of S. James of Galicia on which he crossed the sea; that on a mountain above Acre stands the church of SS. James and John [S. James the Less] where they were born. 13 The buen seynt de Galise is fairly well-defined by the end of the twelfth century.

[340] Burchard of Mount Sion went thither in 1232, and saw the place where S. James was beheaded by Herod Agrippa. 14 But thereafter he is almost forgotten in the east: and James the Less usurps his place. Marino Sanuto (1321) who borrows freely from Burchard, has not a word to tell of the Son of Zebedee, but he relates that near the Virgin's Tomb [--enclosed, but open to the sky--] is the Sepulchre of James the Less, for the Christian buried him here after the Jews had cast him down from the Temple; and elsewhere, that in the Chamber of the Last Supper, S. Matthias was elected, the Holy Ghost descended, the seven deacons were chosen and S. James the Less was ordained Bishop of Jerusalem. 15 Leopold von Suchem, thirty years later, thought that James Minor, the Lord's brother, was martyred by the Jews casting him down from the Temple. 16 After this it seems no more than compensation, if Luke of Tuy makes S. James Major the protomartyr.
His confused account of the Apostles represents the state of Spanish knowledge in the thirteenth century, which was no [341] better than the Syrian. It amounts about to this:

Trajan [he says] built the bridge of Alcantara and allowed the Christians [S. Luke of Tuy] to be persecuted, and Simon Cleophas Bishop of Jerusalem was crucified. S. John died in Ephesus at ninety-nine, when Galen of Pergamo the great doctor flourished. [Then he starts a new paragraph.]
Peter and Paul are buried at Rome; Andrew at Patras, a city of Achaia; James Zebedee in a marble ark and then carried to the farthest province of Spain, Galicia; John at Ephesus, Philip and his daughters at Hierapolis of Asia; Thomas at Calamia a city of India; Matthew in the Parthian mountains; Martial, a disciple of the Apostles, at Limoges; Luke in Bithynia and Mark at Alexandria; James Alphaeus beside the temple at Jerusalem; Thaddaeus, that is Jude, in Beyrout of the Edessenes. Simon Cleophas who is Jude (qui et Judas) bishop after James, was crucified [But compare Abn-Edhari, page 203] at the age of a hundred and twenty Edharif years in Jerusalem and buried there; Titus in Crete; Crescens the eunuch of [342] Candace the queen of Arabia Felix, in Gaul. 17

It is worth noting, perhaps, as an instance of how these confusions come, that the Jerusalem pilgrims went to see the place where Philip baptized the eunuch; now Mgr. Duchesne says 18 that the Latin texts of the Apostolic Catalogues give Macedonia to S. Matthew, Gaul to S. Philip, and Spain to S. James, a few sending S. Matthew to Ethiopia. Philip having been placed in Gaul and then withdrawn, the eunuch becomes his substitute. Two more notes of Mgr. Duchesne's must be remembered: the first, that Mozarabic calendars place the Feast of Santiago [A vegetation spirit] on May-Day 19 ; now Tamayo de Salazar extracts from the Chronicle of Julian Perez the Arch-priest of S. Justa, a statement that S. James the Less was commissioned by S. Peter, acting under orders from the Blessed Virgin, to attend to the interests of the Church and especially of Spain, and his feast fixed for May i. The other is, that he accepts as authentic the Hymn [343] attributed to King Mauregato (783-788) which declares Jacobus Hispaniam: and [--in what sense ?] adds that there seems to be no distinction between the two SS. James. 20
In the Apocryphal Acts of Andrew and Matthias in the City of the Man-Eaters, James and Simon are called the brothers of Jesus the son of Joseph the carpenter. 21
The Acts of Thaddaeus relate how Thaddaeus was a native of Edessa, and after Christ had sent his likeness to King Abgar by Ananias the courier, then, after the Passion and the Resurrection and Ascension, Thaddaeus went to Abgar and instructed and baptized him, as S. Thomas did in the Acts which S. Silva of Aquitaine read there, and ultimately died and was buried at Berytus, a city of Phoenicia by the sea. 22

Taking for a moment East and West together, the case may be stated about as follows:

Thomas was a twin, Didymus; but [--as Rendel Harris shows--] Thomas = Jude, and also Thomas = Thaddaeus (Addai)
Simon + Jude are a pair [344]
James is brother of the Lord; but there are two Jameses
James Major = James Minor and Philip + James are a pair
These all are twins and all are interchangeable.
Philip = Adad at Hierapolis, but
Philip + James Minor = James Major
.*. James Major = Adad, especially at Heliopolis.

It can be further proved. In the Acts of Philip, S. Philip is called the Son of [S. Philip surrogate of S, James] Thunder; 23 he is subject to fits of rage like SS. James and John when they would have called down fire from heaven; 24 he directs the preparation of his mummy in wrappings that would bring it to the shape of the cult-image. 25 But he bears in other ways more likeness to Dionysus, he is accompanied by the leopard and the kid of the [Avatar of Dionysus,] goats, 26 and by wild women, 27 and where his blood falls a vine springs up. 28 Now the minor temple at Heliopolis, as we know today, was dedicated to Dionysus. His companion and sister is Mariamne, who is a disciple of S. James in other legends, [345] and who, by the way, is herself a twin! 29 Rendel Harris has expounded delightfully how S. Thomas is the twin of Christ, and looks just like him, so that Christ on coming into a room is taken for S. Thomas who has just gone out. 30 "And the Lord said to him, I am not Judas who also is Thomas; I am his brother." In the Acts of Philip, when S. Philip is in the rôle of S. James, Christ appears in the likeness [and twin Christ] of S. Philip. 31 Priscillian knew this twin of ol Christ's: "Ait Juda apostolus clamans ille didymus domini". 32 As one of the Sons of Thunder, of course S. James was a twin, and again we have to thank Rendel Harris for all the instances of the twin-child that is the Lightning's child: 33 S. John was the twin brother to S. James, but S. John was otherwise disposed of. He lived to be very old, his place was Ephesus: S. John in Ephesus, S. Peter in Rome, S. James in Compostella, was an idea familiar to the twelfth century in Galicia, and doubtless elsewhere and earlier: so the world was distributed, east and west and in Italy. Therefore S. James must have another twin: and was he not [346] already, in Canonical Scripture, the Brother of the Lord? The mortal twin, the chthonian power [One goes to the underworld], is S. James: the divine, in heaven, is Jesus: but on the baldachin at Compostella S. James ruled.
Eastern Spain was peculiarly liable to influences from the East, and Syrian saints abound at Vich, Tarrasa, and thereabouts, who are often brethren, like SS. Cosmo and Damian, SS. Abdon and Senen. But in Catalan painting [Evidence from Iconography] of the fourteenth and fifteenth century, the twins are enforced, the likeness between S. James Major and his Master Christ is as marked as in the Gloria of Maestro Mateo. In the Last Supper of Solsona S. James in hat and slavey n still looks like Christ; in the Serras' altar piece at S. Cugat the two SS. James are identical, except for attributes. In Borassa's retable of the Poor Clares at Vich, SS. Simon and Jude look precisely like the Veronica which they are presenting to King Abgar; so in the predella, only SS. Thomas and Matthias (= Matthew), so S. James Minor.

[347] The High God. (…)

Volume 3: BOOK THREE: THE BOURNE: chapters I – VII 1-370
chapters I – VII THE ASIAN GOD 278
The Mortal Twin 334-346
NOTES 484-489

[484] The Mortal Twin:
[486] The High God:
[487] Along the Eastern Road:
8 The case is this :
(i) Stones were worshipped in protohistoric Spain, and the drawing of Santiago's pillar is identically like those on Minoan gems.
A Pillar was associated with S. James, and worshipped at Saragossa, and at Compostella.
(2) The Jinete is to be identified with Castor, and S. James involved, as warrior and as twin, wherever he was worshipped.
(3) The High God of Compostella: he is a storm god, a sky god, and a sun god. His Mate is the Lady of the Doves, Dea Ataecina.
(4) S. James is psychopompos and patron of wayfarers, succeeding the Celtic Esus-Mercury, and Mithras. He is a chthonian power.
(5) The type of Serapis and the epithet Soter were given to him.
(6) The relation of Mother and Son at ompostella must be connected with the
Lusitanian inscriptions to the Mother of the gods.
(7) He is a vegetation-god, and rainmaker: a bull-god.
(8) He is the twin of Christ.
[489] (9) This combination, in the High God of Compostella, of sun god, fertility god, and war god, made easy this identification with
the greatest of the Syrian Baals, the Zeus of Heliopolis.
(10) The later empire and Middle Age knew all about Heliopolis from Lucian and Macrobius and also from travellers, John of Antioch, Michael the Syrian and Benjamin of Tudela, all writing in the twelfth century, and all describing what was there.
(il) Syrian architects left their mark in Europe.
(12) It is most probable that the stair at the west end of Santiago and Notre Dame du Puy, is fetched from Syria.

NOTES: BOOK FOUR CHAPTER I (…)

For some extra comfortable reading:

Volume 1: BOOK ONE: THE PILGRIMAGE: chapters I – V pp 1-134
Volume 1: BOOK TWO: THE WAY: chapters I – VIII 135-463
Volume 2: BOOK TWO: THE WAY: chapters IX – XVI 1-514
Volume 3: BOOK THREE: THE BOURNE: chapters I – VII 1-370
[365] "Along the Eastern Road.

Nimrod is lost in Orion,
and Osiris in the Dog-Star.
- Sir Thomas Browne.


I have shown in earlier chapters how in certain aspects the sanctuary of Santiago [Objects at Sion and Byzance] resembles Jerusalem, as in the sepulchre and the chain, or Constantinople, as in the crown and the notion of three churches [Scales and White Horse] one over the other. These likenesses are deliberate. Other things included in Thurkill’s description have not been explained, as we can explain the weighing of the souls, and the devil on a great black horse.
Chief of these are the stepped pool and [The Great Stair and Pool] the stairway through which you look up to the altar. That stairway was described [366] by Lucian as he saw it at Hierapolis, and the great steps with the vista through the propylaeum and hexagonal court even into the Basilica of Theodosius, were there at Heliopolis likewise, and they were figured on the coins, 1 and they impressed Puchstein when he was digging for the German emperor. 2 The coin of Philip and the [(Pages 2 os 355)] drawing of Mr. Pennell, which both adorn this book, express identical architectural inventions, and Aymery's description of the western staircase at Santiago supplies a third instance. The steps and the vista are not in the least Greek. There is nothing like them in any account of Jerusalem, they are found nowhere in Rome. At one shrine in France they may be seen, where the doors that close them at the foot were made by Syrian workmen, and that is the sanctuary of the Mountain Mother, Notre Dame du Puy. [Our Lady of the Peak] There were Syrian architects in Spain as well, along the Camino francés, and Sr. Lampérez postulated their share, although reserving his evidence, in the building of the cathedral at Compostella. 3

[367] Let us not have over this, if any one is ever well-disposed toward the notion, such unseemly wrangling for precedency [... Y aquel monte es la Iglesia] as in the case of Toulouse: let us say that in both cases the architectural impetus was Syrian, and the Storm God and the Mountain Mother alike were domiciled in the west. The consistent syncretism of the early centuries of our era was capable of this and more.
The high god of Compostella had taken up into himself all the worships, all the devotions that reached his shrine, and they [donde os ha de velar] were many. They were borne in the dust of marching legions, of wandering peddlars, of returning pilgrims and crusaders. His sanctuary was like the Syrian goddess's, “with something of the traits of all others,” 4 Jerusalem, Byzance, and Baalbek.
There is no other account that explains all the facts. There is no improbability à priori. The objection that in a Christian country S. James could not have come so near to being God, will hardly stand. His would not be the first devotion that thought it not robbery to be equal with God. The [368] early church when it was struggling for existence with all the other Syrian cults, and Egyptian, and Anatolian, and Asiatic from further east, was willing to identify Christ with the sun, 5 and on a glass the head of Christ is the rayed bust of Sol Sanctissimus. 6 The Manichaeans identified Him with the sun: the Armenians then and still, it is credibly asserted, as Christians have always worshipped the sun.
S. Bridget in Celtic Ireland was identified with the Blessed Virgin Mary, 7 the local divinity with the exotic, she was called Mary of the Gaels, "the mother of my celestial king," and one verse of a hymn prays "that she will root out from us the vices of the flesh, she the budded rod, she the mother of Jesus." Réville and Cumont are authorities respectable even to the orthodox, and the facts about S. Bridget are given by Don Louis Gougaud in the Bibliothèque de l’enseignement de l’histoire ecclesiastique. These parallels have sufficient weight, it is hoped. As late as the twelfth century the most astonishing implications were used for their emotional [369] value at Santiago in Fulbert's Mass, and still more amazing phrases in Queen Elvira's donation fifty years earlier. S. James was still the high god, his was the worship and the kingdom, his the power and the glory.
The ultimate fact is the worship: 8 [The state of the case, page 488] religions come and pass again; that changes not:

As the soul whence each was born makes
room for each,
God by God goes out, discrowned and
disanointed
But the soul stands fast that gave them
shape and speech."

[369] the end Volume 3: BOOK THREE: THE BOURNE: chapters I – VII 1-370;
[371] follows Volume 3: BOOK FOUR: HOMEWARD: chapters I – III 371-710.
 

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Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
#13
I just posted this in response to "The Santiago Enigma" on Santiagobis. Perhaps as we can look at a great sculpture, or a symbolically intriguing painting and find inner meaning, we can find more answers to our "Enigma" in poetry than we can in literary discourse.
So I thought Eugenio Gariibay's beautiful Spanish poem would fit quite nicely here too....

This was written in Spanish and German near Najara. I hope it is there still.

Polvo, barro, sol y lluvia
es el camino de Santiago
millares de pelegrinos
y mas de un millar de años.

Peregrino, quien te llama?
Que fuerza oculta te atrae?
Ni el camino de las estrellas
ni las grandes catedrales.

No es la bravura Navarra
ni el vino de los Riojanas
ni los mariscos Gallegos
ni los campos Castellanos.

Peregrino, quien te llama
Que fuerza oculta te atrae?
Ni las gentes del camino
ni los costumbres rurales.

Ni es la historia y la cultura
ni el gallo de la Calzada
ni el palacio de Guadí
ni el castillo Ponferrada.

Todo lo veo al pasar
y es un gozo verlo todo
mas la voz que a mi me llama
lo siento mucho mas hondo.

La fuerza que a mi empuja
la fuerza que a mi me atrae
no se explica ni yo
sólo el de arriba lo sabe.
Eugenio Gariibay
Amigos Camino Santiago (Najara)



Tracy Saunders
http://pilgrimagetoheresy.com
 
#14
Priscillian said:
we can find more answers to our "Enigma" in poetry than we can in literary discourse.
By definition, and quicker too, I would say. When I see some messages of young pilgrims in a hurry I sometimes think of this beautiful line "pray that the road is long" in this poem by Kavafis:

When you set out on your journey to Ithaca,
pray that the road is long,
full of adventure, full of knowledge.
The Lestrygonians and the Cyclops,
the angry Poseidon -- do not fear them:
You will never find such as these on your path,
if your thoughts remain lofty, if a fine
emotion touches your spirit and your body.
The Lestrygonians and the Cyclops,
the fierce Poseidon you will never encounter,
if you do not carry them within your soul,
if your soul does not set them up before you.

Pray that the road is long.
That the summer mornings are many, when,
with such pleasure, with such joy
you will enter ports seen for the first time;
stop at Phoenician markets,
and purchase fine merchandise,
mother-of-pearl and coral, amber and ebony,
and sensual perfumes of all kinds,
as many sensual perfumes as you can;
visit many Egyptian cities,
to learn and learn from scholars.

Always keep Ithaca in your mind.
To arrive there is your ultimate goal.
But do not hurry the voyage at all.
It is better to let it last for many years;
and to anchor at the island when you are old,
rich with all you have gained on the way,
not expecting that Ithaca will offer you riches.

Ithaca has given you the beautiful voyage.
Without her you would have never set out on the road.
She has nothing more to give you.

And if you find her poor, Ithaca has not deceived you.
Wise as you have become, with so much experience,
you must already have understood what Ithacas mean.
 
#15
Priscillian said:
...find more answers to our "Enigma" in poetry than we can in literary discourse...
Surfing on the internet for a translation of that beautiful poem I found Tracy's own interpretation, so -with her consent- here it is:

‘Dust, mud, sun and rain, is the Way of Saint James; thousands of pilgrims and more than a thousand years. Pilgrim, who calls you? What dark force brings you here? It's not the Way of the Stars, nor the grand cathedrals. Neither is it the courage of Navarra, or the wine of the people of La Rioja. It's not the seafood of Galicia; it's not the countryside of Castilla. Pilgrim, who calls you? What mysterious force attracts you? It is not the people of the way or their rural customs. Nor is it their history and culture. It isn't the cockerel of la Calzada, Gaudi's palace, or the castle in Ponferrada. Everything you see in passing is a joy; and the voice which calls me, makes me feel much deeper. The force which pulls me, attracts me, I cannot explain it. Only he above knows why.’

The more pilgrim's stories I read the more I wonder what force could be stronger? 'Calling' or 'drawing' or the more 'pushing' motives? In other words: is it something inside or outside ourselves or would that be semantics? What do you think?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#16
I have just come back from a remarkable experience. Astonishing really, to be standing in front of Maestro Mateo's 'Portico de la Gloria' today in London. I was in the Victoria & Albert Museum, so of course I refer to the copy: a full-size plaster cast.

If you were examining it for the craftsmanship, it would be useless because this is not stone, but to study the iconography it is perfectly suited. Wearing my Camino boots and hat, I left the presbytery of the south London parish church where I am temporarily based and I walked through the fine rain from here to the museum. It was a very short pilgrimage, taking little more than an hour. I didn't expect anything much when I got there: this is after all a copy of the west door of Santiago cathedral, not the real thing.

It was made in the 1880s; even earlier than Georgina Goddard King's writings on this subject. So, evidently enough interest was already there to make this huge enterprise worthwhile. The influence of the Victorian art critic and medievalist John Ruskin, perhaps? Or the pre-Raphaelites? Or the English 19th c. gothic revival in general?

The first thing to remark upon is this: in the four hours that I spent there with this Victorian tribute to Maestro Mateo's work , there was a constant flow of visitors from all nationalities. Many sat down on the two long benches places directly in front of it and some stayed for half an hour contemplating it. A Spanish group arrived and one lady was moved to tears, simply by seeing that this tribute to Maestro Mateo recognized the importance of Spain's beloved patron saint and the building that houses his relics.



And I too eventually fell under the magic of its charm. I had been photographing it and taking over three hundred photos in the first two hours I was there. (By the way, Geert: you will have some copies this evening by email, as I promised. I just have to sort them.) Then I put the camera away in its bag and just sat down on the bench and contemplated the Gloria. It should be said straight away that I have already spent some time on three occasions in Santiago looking at the real Portico de la Gloria, so I was not expecting to be drawn in by a plaster copy!

I should know better by now. If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans! I was suddenly quite overwhelmed by the magnificence of it all and quite moved to tears. Here was the whole story: the Old Testament prophets on the left (the north side, furthest from the light, so 'in the dark') and the New Testament figures on the right (the south side, nearer to the sun therefore 'in God's light.') The evangelists gathered around Christ in glory in the great tympanum, and on the central pillar, St James, looking remarkably like Christ and indeed - being closer to our level - seeming like the human presence of the divine himself. Even in the copy, it is a remarkably galvanizing figure.

Of course, Mateo the master mason places the figure of himself, crouching on the floor, on the reverse side of this pillar - the only human figure actually at floor level. (The only other figures touching the ground are the animals who support the columns.) So Mateo is looking at the nave of the cathedral from inside the door and I couldn't help see a symbolism in this: Mateo is now eternally facing away from his masterpiece, as if he has seen into an enormous mystery here, captured it in a way that maybe even frightens him at the gift he has been given. Now the job is done, he does not want to look at it again. He dare not. He is spent. He is emptied. He turns to the altar, to the relics, to the life to come, and to watch the Mass being said.

I too am finished, for now. I'll come back to it. I must explore the photos and send some off to Geert. I'll put one here now. But I will come back to it soon and continue. Next time the sun comes out (rare in London!) I shall return to that copy of the Portico de la Gloria and continue the study I have only just begun. When I set off on my Camino in May, I will be walking from this copy to the real thing, and that is quite a privileged position to be in.

Gareth
http://whizz-kidz-pilgrim.blogspot.com
 

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#17
Dear Gareth!
I feel moved too! What a wonderful, wonderful day you had! Marvellous! Thank you so much for your intentions and actions! I wish I could have been there! And you have already earned the lunch I promised a few of my best pilgrim friends when they would confirm what I saw in the Pórtico de la Gloria in Santiago so many years ago. The last few days I tested my story on plausibility with a few non-pilgrim friends and they thought it was OK so I can post it immediately when the time is right.

You have already seen what struck me but you do not yet interpret it my way, but that may only be a matter of time now, so please keep thinking and talking! I have already draughted a paper in case a pilgrim like you should suddenly strike home. Please think about that too! What we could do to leave more pilgrims a chance to make their own discovery and have their moment of Glory. I've asked Ivar's advice on the matter.

Your beautiful picture of the tympanum just arrived; thank you so much again! Please send another one of Daniel for he is important in this story. Isn’t this great! Congratulations!
Geert
 

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#18
Re: The Santiago Enigma -Ja’akov & Jacobus– is the name a sign?

The Santiago Enigma
1. Why Santiago or Fisterra?
2. Why Saint James or Priscillian?
3. Why millions of secular pilgrims?
4. What Enigma in the Pórtico de la Gloria?
5. How jewish Jacobus became catholic James
6. More reviews of The Way of Saint James coming
7. Here is #1: Ja’akov en Jacobus – is the name a sign?
(new!)

This beautiful Santiago Forum, ‘where past pilgrims share and future pilgrims learn’, is the best place to ask these questions that have kept me wondering over the last quarter of a century. The recent reprint of The Way of Saint James by Ms Georgiana Goddard King is a good occasion because Ms King deals with some of these questions. This is only a small part of her very rich classic on the history of art and the cult of Santiago. You could ask: Why now? Hasn’t this been discussed before? Not, I must say, to my knowledge, except by Ms King; speaking of enigmas!

6. Already 14 reviews of The Way of Saint James
Five years ago I started collecting reviews from pilgrim friends. We already have 14 contributions (mostly in Dutch) that will follow here as soon as possible after getting permission and translation. Now we start with one that answers some questions on naming James after Jacobus or Jacob under the title: ‘Ja’akov and Jacobus - Is the name a Sign here?’ The translation from Hebrew via Dutch into English proved a little difficult with the names of Jacob, Jacobus and James -as foreseen- so both authors stuck to Hebrew names for now.

7. Ja’akov en Jacobus – Is the name a Sign here? (new!)
by Ria van der Pot & Marianne Lodder:

"A mental exercise on the possible accidental meaning (synchronism) relating to the naming of the patriach Ja’akov (Jacob) and the apostle Jacobus.

Introduction
Geert and I first met each other during a car trip on the way to the Lilbosch Abbey in Limburg, the Netherlands. The conversation during the trip was mainly about Santiago de Compostela, the Saints Jacob and Paul, synchronisation and the traditions of Judaism. This meeting led to the development of a friendship and the following review which I, together with a friend -an expert on bible matters- have written.

In the last lines of this review we have answered the question in the title, but maybe a short summary in advance will clarify and excite the answer to this question. Both namesakes followed in the footsteps of their brother; Ja’akov, roughly translated, means ‘he grabbed him -his brother- by the heel’. One did this literally by the birth and the other metaphorically followed his brother’s way of living and beliefs.

Nomen est Omen – Is the name a Sign here?
In the Jewish tradition the naming of a child is an important occurrence. There is a Jewish ritual, for example, that someone who is dying could be given a different name with the intention of misleading the Angel of Death.
From the kabbalistic point of view there is the importance of the correct pronounciation of someone’s name because every letter of the Hebrew alphabet has its own energetic strength. Incorrect pronounciation of the name or changing the letters could lead to consequences on cosmic level.
For this reason within the Jewish religion there is a ban on speaking G*d’s name. G*d can only be described, for example as the Almighty One or the Name.

It is written in the first Testament, that at one time twins were born, Esav and Ja'akov, who were the sons of Jitschak and Rivka. Esav was born first, followed by Ja'akov who held him tightly by the heel, this being the reason why the parents chose the name. Which means, roughly translated, ‘he held his brother by the heel’. That his brother later took advantage of the fact that he was the first born is well known.
When the same Ja'akov became an adult, he fought with G*d in the desert [Jabbok; Peniel] and won. A change of name passes by a similar awe-inspiring event: Ja'akov became Israël, which means ‘he that fights with G*d’ and he gets 12 sons: the 12 tribes of Israël.
In the second Testament we read about, amongst others, three Jacobs (originally: Ja’akov and undoubtedly named after the first tribe father):

- Jacob (Major) the apostle son of Zebedeus and brother of the apostle John – he was killed by Herodes Agrippa I. It is believed that this Jacob was responsible for bringing Christianity to Spain. He is the patron saint of Spain, our royal residence The Hague and some other European capitals and is said to be buried in Santiago de Compostela.
- Jacob (Minor) the son of Alpheus, also one of the twelve apostles, and possibly the brother of the apostle Levi who was also named as a son of Alpheus. In the year 62 or 63, at the instigation of the high priest Annas, he was stoned and later bludgeoned to death with a fuller’s club - often shown on illustrations.
- Jacob, the brother of Jesus – he is presumed to be the author of the letter of Jacob referred to in the second Testament. During the Jerusalem conference, at which Paul was also present, he made a moderate point of view that non-Jews could, according to him, also become Christians without first converting to Judaism. Nevertheless he still championed the laws of Moses and the Jewish christians who thought that this in was line with Jesus. According to Flavius Josephus he died a martyr’s death in 70 after Christ in Jerusalem.
- Different figures, different times and different consequences – all with the same name.

To answer the question at the beginning of this review – Is the name a Sign here? Yes, because Ja’akov and Jacobus both followed their brothers:

- The first Ja'akov who, literally, held his brother and fought with G*d, would form a binding link in matters of religion: he became the patriach of the Jewish people.
- The other Jacobs, metaphorically followed their brother-in-belief Jesus, by treading in his footsteps.
- Through this group, Jacob Major would contribute to what amounted to a separation within the Jewish religion and the development of Christianity.

In our opinion it is a happy coincidence that a pilgrims path should exist, named after the last Jacob (Major). In addition, a pilgrimage, a journey on foot, illustrates as no other method can, the mystical Jewish idea that spiritualism is learnt little by little, and happens along the way, step by step, by things one does and comes in contact with. Experiences in life -the pilgrim’s path- and thoughts are continually in contention with each other – and so, it seems, is the circle once more complete."

Ria van der Pot & Marianne Lodder
Easter 2008 – The Hague – Holland

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
More reviews will follow asap.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

TO ALL PILGRIMS:
Please read The Way of Saint James before you leave* and write a review on any aspect.
Thank you very much!
Geert
PILGRIMSPLAZA
http://king-early-days.blogspot.com
*When you read it after returning home you will want to set out right away again!

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

The Way of Saint James

For comfortable flip book reading:
http://www.openlibrary.org/details/wayo ... 01kinguoft ; http://www.openlibrary.org/details/wayo ... 02kinguoft ; http://www.openlibrary.org/details/wayo ... 03kinguoft ;

For an easy and quick browse through all the flat texts:
http://elcaminosantiago.com/PDF/Way_of_ ... mes_01.txt ;
http://elcaminosantiago.com/PDF/Way_of_ ... mes_02.txt ;
http://elcaminosantiago.com/PDF/Way_of_ ... mes_03.txt ;

To the full index http://pilgrimsplaza-king-index.blogspot.com ;
To my English home page http://king-early-days.blogspot.com ;
To my Dutch website home page http://www.pelgrimspaden.nl ;
To my e-mail address in all my 27 internet weblogs > Comments

For a special introductory offer: http://www.pilgrimsprocess.com/events.htm

Also see pilgrim-books/topic3657.html
and miscellaneous-topics/topic3763.html
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#19
PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
You have already seen what struck me but you do not yet interpret it my way, but that may only be a matter of time now... Please send another one of Daniel for he is important in this story. Isn’t this great! Congratulations!
Here you are then, the smiling prophet Daniel. I have spent this evening re-reading the book of the prophet Daniel in the Navarre Bible which has a very good commentary, but I have a long way to go before I'm ready to 'read' the story of these stones with any confidence. Then we have a second Daniel at ground level. On the base of the pillar where St James is seated, we have Daniel in the lions' den. He is between two lions and his fingers are in their mouths. Pilgrims would throw sand into the open mouths while placing their right hand on the well known place just above this. Then on the reverse of this we have the supposed self-portrait by Maestro Mateo, facing into the cathedral. What we do know about him is that he was well paid and received a contract for the completion of the work. What we don't know is precisely what he did. Was he responsible for the building or the programme of sculpture, a master artisan? There are various theories. Finally, I have to share my news with you. Today it was agreed by the V & A Museum public relations department that I should be allowed into the museum for one hour on May 9th, before it opens to the public, to spend some time alone in the cast gallery, looking at the Portico de la Gloria and photographing it uninterrupted by the crowds of visitors. This is also three days before I set out walking from here to Santiago, so it is an interesting development. I think I'm going to have a good Camino, the way things are going. I just have to beware the rottweillers in France....(!)

Gareth
 

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#20
Really wonderful, Gareth! Thank you very much! I didn't know about that second Daniel * and today I learned that there is 'probably' a third James in the far left side of the Pórtico next to Esther and Judith. Could you take a closer look there too? This will be a good pilgrim's vintage year! And as for stray dogs: I learned the hard way to command them in a loud and harsh voice HERE! pointing your fist at your feet. That often worked as they do not want to obey and walk away. No garantee! A true pilgrim is also supposed to be suffering once in a while, remember! * What a remarkable difference between your picture and the black&white one in the post above!
 

Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
#21
GREETINGS TO EVERYONE FROM THE MOST BEAUTIFUL CITY IN THE WORLD (AFTER GRANADA!)

I thought that I might be able to "one up" Gareth since he has a plaster copy, whereas I have the Real Thing, but, since he can view the Portico at eye level and I cannot, I suppose I have to concede a draw...
Tomorrow, apparently, is the anniversary of the Consecration of the Portico (April 3rd), and so I plan to get to the Cathedral just as it opens, park myself on the floor, and study the "Enigma" to my heart´s content (bought a beautiful book yesterday with the total plan).
As to the "Enigma" Geert has set us...I don´t know what interpretation Geert has put on the Portico, but as a proto-Gnostic-heretic-type pilgrim, the End Days would be a cause for celebration, not fear. Freedom from bodily incarnation could only be the subject of Joy. Perhaps that is why the musicians are smiling and cracking jokes (one at least is asleep I noticed yesterday!). I have always had a fondness for Revelations. One of the verses (3;20) was given to me to memorise whan I was a child, and I have written about its sigtnificance in another, as yet unpublished, book (The Indalo Quest).
Anyway, I am so happy to be here once more,. Just a few pilgrims here. Most have walked a very long way (three from Le Puy), and most seem to be French.

Two things that made me sad though..the Seminario Menor is supposedly closed for three week and so pilgrims arriving have no-where to stay and Master Mateo´s column (with the finger imprints) is protected and I couldn´t see that anyone was being allowed to get close enough to it to either touch it or bang their heads (just imagine what would have been the end result if that had been done when it was first made! Are we taking preservation just a bit too far!)

Well, if I am not going to spend all my time in Compostela at this Internet cafe, I shall say Hasta Luego Todos!
Tracy Saunders

Oh, and PS...quite a lot of talk about Priscillian here, and am contacting other profs in Oviedo and Vigo today. All VERY exciting for me! The next book is percolating nicely.
http://www.pilgimagetoheresy.com
 
#22
Hi Tracy!
Wonderful! Full of wonders!
Here's a nice lead for tomorrow:

Once upon a time
"Once upon a time a French museum showed a painting of a bouquet in a bucket.
One beautiful Spring day a child said to its parents: ‘Look, those two are kissing!’
Indeed: In the water between the stems of the flowers a loving pair was reflected.
Like in a distant mirror - No one could remember if anyone had seen that before…"
I do wish that you could look like that child tomorrow!

Could you also please tell us from the plan in your new book if there is a third James in the far left side of the Pórtico next to Esther and Judith? Forget what you know for a moment or two!
Have a lot of fun and a good reading! - Geert
 

Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
#23
Geert,
You are driving me crazy, but in a nice way. Here are my interpretations from spending an hour freezing my butt off in the right hand corner of the door in front of the Portico this afternoon (to the amusement of most, and the actually pleasure of yours truly as I was looking at one of the real Wonders of the World - so much there of genius).
OK,
Daniel "seems" to be looking at Judith, I believe in a cross-eyed sort of way, but actually, I think he has been enjoying certain forbidden substances of which I shall not write more here. I mean..look at his face! He is enjoying an interior joy which has nothing to do with any of the statuary around him! (And good for him!)
I am more concerned with the fact that the Tree of Jesse is now out of anyone´s (not determined enough and I saw a few) reach. Cordoned off. Neither can you bang your head for knowledge and insight, though I wish that whomever came up with the brilliant idea of "RESTORING" (?) the Portico had done so (and knocked themselves into a coma!)
Restore? I even asked one of the Official Guides and he told me that the idea of repainting (I kid you not) the Portico had actually come up. He didn´t seem to think much of it either! I said I would act like http://www.avaaz.org and organise a petition! What are they going to do? Fill in the indentations of 1000 years of fingers with plaster!!!! Make it nice and perfect?
And I thought that I was controversial!
Anyway, pray it isn´t so.
Besos from Compostela la Bella to all who have been fascinated enough with Geert´s "Enigma" to "stay tuned".
Tracy Saunders
http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.com
P.S. "Plan for my next book".....now wouldn´t that be nice.
Am hoping it will come to me as the last one did!
 
#24
Priscillian said:
Daniel ...look at his face!
Excellent, Tracy! Keep looking and talking; you're getting close! Last week I asked all my friends who know or were (getting) close what they would prefer: an open discussion or not. They all asked me not to publish the answer! We all agree on giving more pilgrims a fair chance of making their own discoveries in the Gloria and letting them enjoy their moments of Glory. I am now investigating the possibilities of a kind of private chat box for devoted initiates, Hyves or perhaps a special Newsletter for The Santiago Enigma via my private mail. If anyone has any suggestions, please don't be shy, dolls and guys! Geert
Ps: Sorry I couldn't react earlier! My pc was being serviced.
 

Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
#25
Gareth,
Quote "I just have to beware the rottweillers in France....(!)"

Don't worry about Rottweillers! Worry about the prices when you get to Galicia. This afternoon I paid 8.50 E´s for a (small) plate of Pimientos and a beer in Padron in front of the Iglesia de Santiago.
Never mind, the view was nice.
Buen Camino!!!
Wish I could do it again, for the first time.
Tracy Saunders
http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.com
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#26
PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
Priscillian said:
Daniel ...look at his face!
Excellent, Tracy! Keep looking and talking; you're getting close!
Not sure what we're getting close to...! Perhaps you need to phrase a question, in one simple sentence, as I suggested before, or we'll all be asking different questions. But how about this? I was in the V & A Museum again today in Kensington, where I finally had my permit arranged to use a tripod, so have taken 300 photos of the Portico de la Gloria. What really struck me today was the similarity between Daniel and John the Evangelist (see photo). It is as if the theological connection between them (Daniel's prophecy and John's Revelation) has been emphasised by the close facial types. But then, I just wondered if it is an accident of the particular masons who were given the different figures to sculpt; for the angel above Moses, in the grouping of four Old Testament figures that includes Daniel, again looks very similar to both Daniel and John. I think we have to be a little cautious when remarking on the close facial similarity between the Christ in Majesty and James Major. Surely, if the sculptors wished to draw our attention to family connections through facial similarity, then James and John (twins, the "sons of thunder") should look identical? They don't. If the facial similarity between Christ and James Major reflects the mistaken belief that this James was the one referred to as 'the brother of Jesus' (a phrase with a huge range of interpretation anyway, but definitely not this James), then the sculptor was mixing up his James's. I cannot believe for a moment that those who were directing the theology behind the iconography here could have made such an elementary confusion. Therefore I begin to wonder whether the connection between facial similarities is anything more than the favoured physiognomy of particular artists and their preferred human models.


Gareth
 

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#27
Gareth Thomas said:
… phrase a question … asking different questions … theological connection … an accident … draw our attention ... mixing up … elementary confusion …
You're quite right again, Gareth! All very sharp and to the point questions; now we’re closing in! In my view it was very intentional that we should all be 'asking different questions', phrasing our own individual answers and finding our private solution. That’s the simple beauty of it! Could you please be a little more specific about 'Daniel's prophecy and John's Revelation'? Thank you! Geert
 

Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
#28
No question about the resemblance between St. John and Daniel, but perhaps we are being seduced by a smile?
This afternoon I saw the nave and chancel from above, walked on the roof, and sang a Kyrie by Mozart just as the Sacristan was waving the Keys.
I am the happiest clam in the world.
Besos from Santiago,
Tracy Saunders
http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.com
 
#30
The Santiago Enigma - we're closing in!

Today I posted this message in some Yahoo Pilgrim Groups:

The Santiago Enigma – we’re closing in!

Hi all,
The Santiago Enigma is a ‘hot’ topic on the Santiago Forum; we’re closing in! Last week I asked all my friends who know the answer or were (getting) close what they would prefer: an open discussion or not? They all asked me not to publish the answer!
We all agreed on giving more pilgrims a fair chance of making their own discoveries in the Gloria and letting them enjoy their moments of Glory. A few faithful pilgrims have already sparked the debate into its own momentum and today the count passed 1300!
I’m now investigating the possibilities of some sort of chat box, maybe a topic on Hyves or perhaps a special Newsletter Santiago Enigma via my private mailbox for devoted initiates.
Any suggestions?
Thank you!
Geert
http://king-early-days.blogspot.com

miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#31
Re: The Santiago Enigma - we're closing in!

PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
The Santiago Enigma – we’re closing in!
We certainly are here in London! I finished my reading of King over the weekend, hoping to continue building up my understanding of the Portico de la Gloria after my second visit to the full-size cast in the V & A Museum in London. Since you have drawn our attention to Georgina King a number of times, Geert, I have made it my business to examine her work thoroughly. Here is my present view:

There are a number of inaccuracies which have disappointed me, especially when I have checked them out and found mistakes. Perhaps in one or two small matters you might pass them by. Unfortunately, after an accumulation of such small errors, I have begun to find King a little difficult to read. She also makes continual assertions or connections between things which she does not reference. References are the key to all successful academic work, and King is certainly lacking in academic rigour. While her work is interesting as a travelogue, in my view it is hopelessly flawed as an academic work of art history.

I will cite one example here of King's capacity for major error, and the following can be understood and can be verified by anyone instantly, without any academic preparation. On page 158 of Vol III - in the chapter 'The Bourne' - King explores the meaning of the word "Saviour", which she refers to as the "cult-epithet". (I don't necessarily object to her using that phrase: strictly speaking, it is a precise term if you are coming to this from an anthropological perspective, but clearly, in using that phrase she is telling us she is not examining this work of art as a Christian, but someone who stands 'outside the cult'.) But - wait for it! - the staggering phrase that King uses in this same passage is this: she refers to the Saviour as "the first person of the Trinity." It is at this point that she loses my attention. The Saviour, Jesus Christ, is the Second person of the Trinity, as any child in a Catechism class has learned in lesson one.

Oh dear....

Gareth
 
#32
Re: The Santiago Enigma - we're closing in!

Gareth Thomas said:
Oh dear....
Oh dear Gareth!

You have made my day again! This is what I have hoped for many years! You are in very good company of some critics over here, but only you have taken the trouble and effort to explain to all our devoted (nearly) initiates WHY! (I love that question!)

I just posted a suggestion to start a Newsletter on this subject hoping that other experts will follow because I am no match for you and your colleagues in this discussion. I've had no bible training and I only (sic!) fell for Ms King's marvellous style of writing and her passion for Santiago and that will keep me going for a while. For me she will always stay a true legend because she stole my heart, and not by content but by form this time!

If more motivated pilgrims and learned experts were to give their views on this still very special Way of Saint James it could get even more interesting and would give maybe even more pilgrims many happy hours of reading. That wouldn't surprise me in the least!

In the meantime thank you so much for giving our debate the proper approach it badly needed! You made my day and many more to come!

Geert

Ps: Even when you're done with the book we do hope that you will stay with us on the Gloria for a while! We need you!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#33
Re: The Santiago Enigma - we're closing in!

PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
For me she will always stay a true legend because she stole my heart, and not by content but by form this time!
That much is clear, and in many ways the work can be inspiring: it is a good travelogue. The lack of academic precision in some areas is the point that concerns me. And, yes, of course I'll stay with the exploration of the Gloria. This is just the start! I have spent hours looking at the copy in the museum in these past weeks, and now I cannot wait to place myself before the real thing in Santiago. I think a whole day is needed for that: at least a day.

I have heard it said by some pilgrims that their arrival in Santiago has been an 'anticlimax', and I think it is a shame when some people walk away from Santiago without realizing that the opportunity was there for a real encounter with the divine.

We have to be careful not to marginalize this discussion, to see it as a rarified topic for 'devotees'. It is for all. Yes, sure it is important to focus on sensible practical arrangements: what boots to wear; which rucsack to use and how much weight to put in it; and this is an excellent forum for that. But spend a little time studying the Gloria before making your pilgrimage.

Maybe you don't need to be familiar with every one of the twenty-four musicians in the apocalyptic orchestra! Just the main figures and what they symbolize, and above all who they are to you, pilgrim! How do you respond to their message to you? For this is what they were sculpted for: as a gateway into Divine Revelation for the sancta plebs dei, God's holy illiterates who lived in a world before the printing press. Now the story has come full circle and Maestro Mateo's Portico de la Gloria is there to speak to us, if only we will pause a while and let it. It is not enough to glance up for a brief minute or two at the Gloria on the way into the cathedral and see it as interesting medieval decoration: it is the key into a mystery which can be the breathtaking culmination of the whole journey.

Gareth
 

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#34
Cross-roads

Gareth Thomas said:
... [not just a] topic for 'devotees'. It is for all.
Splendid! I'm counting my blessings! And yes, I agree with everything you say! But ... how should we proceed from here? How could we organise this further? Would you perhaps like to take over this topic? I wouldn't mind because you know so much more than I do and you have so much more talent of involving other experts in our quest! I did some suggestions and asked a few questions but no answers yet! I have a feeling that we're on the cross-roads of a few far reaching decisions.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#35
Re: Cross-roads

PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
How could we organise this further?
To be honest, if anything needs organising at all, I'm not the best person to do it just now! I have all my work cut out for the next five weeks getting the practical stuff sorted out for the walk and trying to interest the media in the charity I'm raising money for. Then I'll be on the road for twelve weeks. So, it's not really a good time for me to organize anything! And what needs organizing, I wonder?

For now, it is perhaps enough that we've raised the profile of some interesting questions about the Portico de la Gloria. I have a good deal more thinking to do and I'm looking forward to arriving at the Obradoiro and spending some time there.

Gareth
 
#36
To me it works like a mirror.

Gareth Thomas said:
...interesting questions about the Portico de la Gloria.
Today new friends on other forums urged me to give a short answer to their question: "What is The Santiago Enigma all about?" I'm better in short questions than short answers, so I replied as follows:

"The message is about what this Pórtico has to tell you. The discussion is also about the question whether this message is given intentionally by the makers of the Gloria. In my view that is very much the case. Of course all pilgrims have their own view. Mine has a lot to do with the twin aspect in mythology that Ms King writes about. To me it works like a mirror. "
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#37
#38
Re: To me it works like a mirror.

Sheer beauty! 'It's been noticed', to paraphrase our best-known writer.
Also a group of fellow pilgrims on a Spanish speaking forum found us.

http://www.poorclaresedinburgh.org/claretext.htm:

Most of the words of Clare that we have are from a
few letters she wrote to St Agnes of Prague:-

"Place your mind in the mirror of eternity;
Place your soul in the splendour of glory;
Place your heart in the figure of the divine substance;
And, through contempation, transform your entire being
into the image of the Divine One himself,
so that you may experience
what his friends experience
when they taste the hidden sweetness
that God has kept for those who love him."

See the diagram of the Pórtico de la Gloria in the attachement.
24 Figura barbuda acostada sobre el pecho y dos leones, ¿Noé?
27 Profeta Daniel, sonriente
31 Apóstol Santiago el Menor, con doble túnica
50 Cinco figuritas que son: Adán desnudo al lado del Salvador; Abraham con el índice levantado, y los patriarcas Isaac, Jacob y Judá todos con coronas
51 Cinco figuritas que son: Eva desnuda, Moisés, Aarón, David y Salomón
103 Estatua con túnica ceñida. Es la hermosa reina Esther - Judith was not mentioned.
 

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Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
#39
Well...I can hardly stay out of this at this junction, can I? And having completed (at 2 o'clock this morning: 1180 kms in 14 hours!)) my drive back from Compostela, I have to ask: "What is an Enigma?" Geert, you seem to have a claim to the answer, but having spent several hours in front of the Portico (and even more behind the wheel of an ancient Opel Corsa), I am still not sure of the Question! And what is an Enigma after all, but a question without an Answer? At least, I hope so.

I would like to continue this thread in perhaps another direction. On the way home I recalled that Gelmirez (and Master Matteo) was not by any means the first architect of the Cathedral. Instead it was a Bishop by the name of Diego Pelaez. I vaguely recalled reading about him and when I got back I checked: hmmm. Interesting. He was not only dismissed from his work in 1088 (which remained unfinished at the time), but imprisoned on charges of "Treason". I've since found a bit of historical stuff, but only enough to tweak my interest even further. Who was he? Was his treason, so called, politically motivated only, or did he deviate religiously? Gelmirez, who replaced him, was also an enigmatic figure, but a man who liked his luxuries (do visit his Palace. Carlos will take you up above the Crypt and onto the Roof: Spellbinding!)

Also, behing the supluchre of St. James is another, divided by a wall. It is of rose marble and despite my questions, no-one in the Cathedral could tell me anything about it. There is no info. (It is just in front of the Capilla del Salvador and has a star over it - somewhat hidden.) I would like to know if anyone can enlighten me?

Gareth says: "I have heard it said by some pilgrims that their arrival in Santiago has been an 'anticlimax', and I think it is a shame when some people walk away from Santiago without realizing that the opportunity was there for a real encounter with the divine." he also suggests that we should study the Portico before we embark on the Pilgrimage. To the second I question whether this will add anything to the message we read "inside"? To the first, I heartily agree and for this reason am hoping to open a centre by the next Jubilee Year for "Regrouping", a place to discuss, or perhaps even to be silent, AFTER the Camino. I remember how empty I felt when I "finished". "My" pilgrims dispersed (read Jack Hitt's wonderful Off the Road for this) I even felt this this time, and I was driving! I think that we need to get together with friends we have walked with, or new friends...to discuss, meditate, draw, paint, dream quietly, play music, sing, walk some more even in shorter spaces. Plant flowers, weed gardens, cook (you add here!). Write, of course! This is my "new" plan, though clearly without funds it has its drawbacks: arew there any Pilgrim millionaires/new lottery winners out there who want to get involved? Non-profit, but perhaps it could help your souls pass even faster through Purgatory?) Have even found perfect house on the Pilgrimage Route near Pico Sacro.
Feedback please. It's hard to be a visionary all on your own!!!
In the meantime, book two is gestating.
Tracy Saunders
http://pilgrimageto heresy.com
 
#40
A place to discuss (1)

Hi Tracy!
I’m glad you had a wonderful time and that you returned home safely!
Here are a few quotes in answer to your question: “Feedback please”:

- March 9th, 2008, 1:11 am: “I'm easy to trigger on this lifelong passion”;
- April 7th, 2008, 5:11 pm: “I did some suggestions and asked a few questions but no answers yet! I have a feeling that we're on the cross-roads of a few far reaching decisions.”;
- April 9th, 2008, 4:06 pm: “I would like to continue this thread in perhaps another direction.” (…) “... a place to discuss, or perhaps even to be silent...”

That's what I'm after too: a place to discuss!
Perhaps we could add 1 + 1 > 2½ or even > 3?
Sleep on it! I’ll sent you a PM to talk further.
Good night!
Geert
 

Priscillian

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
#41
Dear Geert, Gareth, and All Pilgrims everywhere,
I just sent this to be published elsewhere, but thought you might enjoy it.
No "Enigma" here.
Just some plain truth...

You Can Go Back Again (But don’t expect it to be the same)
I have just returned from a driving trip to Santiago. This time I drove 1180 kms in 14 hours. The last time it was 860 kms in six weeks. Was there any difference?
Yes, of course. This time I had only myself to talk to. I played all my favourite tapes (Pat Metheny, Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel, Hugh Marsh – who is Canadian, Alannis, tambien, a bit of Spanish stuff). I had no-one to talk to but myself, and I did a fair bit of that – and answered myself at that.) Santiago called me, and that was that. It was all meant to be so simple.

I booked an airline ticket in February. I wanted to do some promotion for my book but above all, I wanted atmosphere, “Headspace”: a time to remember who I was, and why I had walked for so long. The night before my flight, I couldn’t find my passport, nor could I find my Spanish “Residencia”, which was with the passport. I took a “monton” of stuff with me to the airport with my photo (“Look…it’s me!), but to no avail. After a few tears, and I am sorry to say a temper tantrum, I realised that I was not supposed to get on the plane. So I drove, with a short stop for a kip – in my sacred sleeping bag; I even had my Shell over the mirror - in Zamora. I saw the sun come up over Cebreiro and realised that all was well. In fact, all was better than I had expected. I was free of deadlines, and schedules: in fact…a Pilgrim once more.

We do a lot of thinking while walking. But much of it is about the next refugio, a good night’s sleep, a shower, preferably warm if not hot. Driving is different. It is more focussed; more condensed. One question I focussed on is “Why?” Why is this city (beautiful, but Granada, where I lived for three years, is more beautiful) so compelling that I have to ignore the voices in my head and say: “I don’t care! I’m going!”
It only took a morning, a short morning, for me to find out.
The pilgrim mass was not well-attended, but the nun who sang had a beautiful voice and I settled myself down in front of the supulchre (actually: parked my bum where the Pope had parked his is more accurate and a lot more poetic) to listen. Almost no-one came through, and I sang my responses, very quietly and with no little embarrassment, even though there was no-one to hear me. Afterwards, I went up to give the apostle a hug. Perhaps I was too long. I was poked in the back by the priest wielding the collection box to move along. I was “not amused”. Oh well. They have to have something to do after all.
I wanted to go to Padron. I have written about Iria Flavia in my book but have never actually been there. Don’t blink…you’ll miss it. The church, in Padron, dedicated to Santiago was closed, and in the bar adjacent I was greeted with a blank stare when I asked for the key. Again…oh well. Asi es la vida de los pelegrinos. At the bridge, I met an Austrian pilgrim looking distressed. "Is there anything I can do to help you?" I asked her. "Estoy totalmente perdido!" she said. I explained the way to the Albergue (it was not far but not well sign-posted) and offered her a lift. She declined.
Sometimes, we forget.
I drove down the river to a lovely spot called Dos Torres, and had a small picnic (and uprooted some violets which are now sort-of flourishing on my terrace). The next day I went to Lugo – another place I had written about, but had never seen. To my astonishment, not only was it exactly what I had expected and written about (right down to the apple trees, for heaven’s sake), but I felt totally familiar with the layout.
Maybe it was just because the old city is so well contained within its walls. Maybe not. Maybe I have been there before?

That night I sought out Casa Manolo and found that it had changed location, and become very contemporary in décor but still served brilliant menus for 8 Euros, including fresh strawberries for dessert. A pilgrim landmark despite the changes.

The cathedral itself presented more changes than just the sentinel with the collection box (which I didn’t contribute to: I saved my money for Santa Susanna…women especially: do seek here out for her look of courage and resignation. She’s “around the back”). No longer can you imprint your fingers in the Tree of Jesse, neither can you knock yourself out on the Santo dos Croques: they are being preserved “for Restoration”. God knows what that means, or what the Pilgrims of Ages Past would have made of it. Maybe they are going to fill in the fingers with cement to make them nice and smooth again? I was directed to the Sacristan for complaint, but honestly, what is the point? Anyway, I saw several people strain themselves over the railings.

Finally, after four previous visits, I saw and smelled the Botefumeiro, which is, no pun intended, the Essence of the Cathedral, and sat in the right hand corner in front of the Portico de Gloria and just…well…Glorified.
Yes, you can go back again. What you take with you may be different, but you know, what you come away with will be the same. If you just listen.
Tracy Saunders.
http:pilgrimagetoheresy.com
 
#42
Diagram Pórtico de la Gloria and plaster copy in London

http://www.rinconesdesantiago.tk
http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsite ... rost/?p=36
http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsite ... rost/?p=37
http://www.telefonica.net/web2/rincones ... gloria.htm
http://king-early-days.blogspot.com

24 Figura barbuda acostada sobre el pecho y dos leones, ¿Noé?
27 Profeta Daniel, sonriente
31 Apóstol Santiago el Menor, con doble túnica
50 Cinco figuritas que son: Adán desnudo al lado del Salvador; Abraham con el índice levantado, y los patriarcas Isaac, Jacob y Judá todos con coronas
51 Cinco figuritas que son: Eva desnuda, Moisés, Aarón, David y Salomón
103 Estatua con túnica ceñida. Es la hermosa reina Esther [Judith is not mentioned here. -gb]
 

Attachments

#43
Cult of Heavenly Twins in BOANERGES by Rendel Harris

Some more comfortable reading in a flip book on the Cult of the Heavenly Twins in BOANERGES by James Rendel Harris, posted by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 14th, 2008, 12:35 am in the Pilgrim Books section.

The Cult of the Heavenly Twins is often mentioned in The Way of Saint James by Ms Georgiana Goddard King referring to:

BOANERGES - BY RENDEL HARRIS - James Rendel Harris, 1852-1941 -
Cambridge University Press 1913 - Woodbrooke, Selly Oak. - I August 1913.
http://www.archive.org/details/boanerges00harruoft - flip book [no pictures]
http://ia341042.us.archive.org/3/items/ ... t_djvu.txt - flat text
Preface vii-ix / Errata x / Introduction xi-xxiv

INTRODUCTION
"In the present treatise, I propose to make a more extended study of the Cult of the Heavenly Twins than I was able to attempt in my previous investigations into the subject. It was inevitable that the discovery which I made of the existence of pairs of twin saints in the Church calendars, and which led back naturally to the place of the Heavenly Twins in the religions of Greece and Rome, should require to be approached from the side of anthropology rather than from that of ecclesiastical or classical culture, as soon as it became clear that the phenomena under examination were world wide, and that the religious practices involved were the product of all the ages of human history. At the same time, I do not want to discuss the subject altogether de novo, nor have I the expectation of writing the one book on this particular subject. The banquet of research at which I am seated is likely to be one of many courses: if I could fancy myself beginning once more at the first course, I have no prospect of sitting the feast out ah ovo usque ad mala. Indeed, I am reasonably sure that I shall never get to the apples at all, and on that ground might well be absolved from the completeness which one naturally desires in the study of a single compartment of knowledge. For these reasons, then, I think it best to assume some of the results which I have arrived at in previous books and articles on the subject, and to use these results as a basis for further study, making such changes as may be necessary in the light of clearer knowledge, and confirming previous enquiries made in limited areas by the parallels which are supplied by a wider knowledge of the world and of the history of man."

Some chapters:
"I. Boanerges 1-12
11. The Parentage of the Twins 13-19
XIX. Why did the Twins go to Sea? 195-204
XXIII. The Ploughs and Yokes of the Heavenly Twins 234-249
XXIV. The Twin-Cult at Edessa 250-264
XXV. Further Traces of the Twins in Arabia and in Palestine 265-270
XXVI. The Twin-Cult in Egypt 271-274
XXVII. The Story of Esau and Jacob interpreted 275-280
XXIX. The Dioscuric Element in II Maccabees 289- 290
XXX. On the Names commonly given to Twin Children 291-296
XXXII. The Heavenly Twins in Graeco-Roman Tradition 304-312
XXXVIII. The Woodpecker and the Plough 344-347
XLI. The Twins in Western Europe 358-360
XLIV. Are the Twin-Myths one or many? 380-383"

Some quotes:
"XXIIl OF THE HEAVENLY TWINS 245 - Our next instance of the connection of the Heavenly Twins with the plough shall be taken from the early Christian literature. It has been shown that in certain quarters, there was a belief that the Apostle Thomas, whose name means twin, was the twin-brother of Jesus.
This belief was especially strongly held in the old Syrian Twin-cult church of Edessa, which city was the centre of a heathen cult of the Sun and the Heavenly Twins, the two latter being probably identified with the Morning and Evening Stars. The reasons for this surprising statement are largely drawn from the Acts of Thomas, the mythical founder of the Edessan Church : and these Acts, which are of Syrian origin, make Thomas play the part of the double of Jesus, in all kinds of peculiar situations, and they make Jesus and Thomas Jesus and do many things which can at once be explained if they were looked on as Dioscures ; moreover on several occasions, Thomas is definitely addressed as the Twin of the Messiah. For the proofs and elaboration of this theme, I must refer to my two tracts, the Dioscuri in Christian Legend, and the Cult of the Heavenly Twins : but we must not suppose that [Justin XX. 3, 'pugnare visi sunt, nee ultra apparuerunt, quam pugnatum est.' ][246 THE PLOUGHS AND YOKES] the belief is limited to a single Church, planted in a centre where Twin-worship was rife as a part of a solar cult. The Roman Breviary itself is in evidence for the belief, and contains sentences for St Thomas' day which, in their uncorrected form, tell us plainly that Thomas is the twin-brother of Jesus. These sentences in the Breviary can be traced back to St Isidore of Seville, and it is quite possible that they may be ultimately due to the westerly migration of the Acts of Thomas. Even if this should turn out to be the case, it appears as if a long time had elapsed before the statements in question were recognised as heretical. And this naturally leads to the belief that the gulf in theological thought between the far East and the near West was not so deep as might, at first sight, be imagined."

More > Cult of the Heavenly Twins in BOANERGES by James Rendel Harris, posted by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 14th, 2008, 12:35 am in the Pilgrim Books section on this forum.
In this book Santiago is only mentioned in reference with its cult in Latin America and the word Compostela does not occur at all. Priscillian is mentioned in a few lines only. -gb
 

Attachments

#44
a two way mirror where the seen looks back

PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
... it works like a mirror.
or, even more: like a

'two way mirror where the seen
looks back'


from: Sight and Embodiment in the Middle Ages.
Basingstoke: Palgrave MacMillan,. 2002. Brook, Isis.
Experiencing Interiors: Ocularcentrism and Merleau-Ponty’s ...
http://www.bethcarruthers.com/culturalc ... vised3.pdf
Beth Carruthers: 'Returning the Radiant Gaze'
 
#46
Panorama foto of the Pórtico de la Gloria

A new pilgrim friend sent this link to 9 fascinating moving panorama foto's in and around the cathedral of which 1 of the Pórtico de la Gloria, so now we can see what Daniel is looking at.
This will make it easy to study the diagram of the Pórtico and to solve The Santiago Enigma:
http://www.catedraldesantiago.es/visita ... htm?pcated

Success!
Geert Bakker
PILGRIMSPLAZA
http://king-early-days.blogspot.com

More foto's and a diagram of the Pórtico:
- The Santiago Enigma by PILGRIMSPLAZA on March 21st, 2008, 6:00 pm on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html#p20649 ,
- Re: The Santiago Enigma by Gareth Thomas on April 1st, 2008, 11:29 pm on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html?hilit=diagram#p20977 ,
- Diagram Pórtico de la Gloria and plaster copy in London by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 10th, 2008, 11:08 pm on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794-25.html?hilit=diagram#p21296 and click on "diagram portico pcs & txts.pdf" in the attachement ,
- Excellent foto's of the Pórtico de la Gloria… by PILGRIMSPLAZA on June 13th, 2008, 8:31 pm on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794-25.html?hilit=diagram#p23354 >
- http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/fotos/2008 ... 193488.htm and
- Re: To me it works like a mirror. by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 9th, 2008, 9:08 am on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794-25.html?hilit=diagram#p21230 .
 
#47
Santiago was well known in mediaeval England, under the name of "James". That is the name used by Chaucer in his Prologue to the Canterbury Tales when he tells of the Wife of Bath's many travels: "At Rome she had been, and at Boloigne, in Galice at seint Jame..." "Jacobus" would not have been used in ordinary conversation and is the Latin form of the name, used in legal references to the monarch, just as Latin is still used to-day in "Elizabeth Regina".
I am sure that this has been mentioned many times before in this Forum, but I must add that Santiago or St. James the Great along with his younger brother John were sons of Zebedee and Salome. Salome who may also have been known as Mary was related to the mother of Jesus. Among the Jews, as with many cultures even to-day, the word "brother" was used of a range of male relatives, including cousins.
Laurie
 
#50
the answer is in people's hearts and minds

laurie said:
Santiago was well known in mediaeval England, under the name of "James". That is the name used by Chaucer in his Prologue to the Canterbury Tales when he tells of the Wife of Bath's many travels: "At Rome she had been, and at Boloigne, in Galice at seint Jame..." "Jacobus" would not have been used in ordinary conversation and is the Latin form of the name, used in legal references to the monarch, just as Latin is still used to-day in "Elizabeth Regina".
I am sure that this has been mentioned many times before in this Forum, but I must add that Santiago or St. James the Great along with his younger brother John were sons of Zebedee and Salome. Salome who may also have been known as Mary was related to the mother of Jesus. Among the Jews, as with many cultures even to-day, the word "brother" was used of a range of male relatives, including cousins.
Dear Laurie,
Thank you very much for your reaction. Please let me also ask you a few questions in return:
Santiago was well known in mediaeval England, under the name of "James". That is the name used by Chaucer in his Prologue to the Canterbury Tales when he tells of the Wife of Bath's many travels: "At Rome she had been, and at Boloigne, in Galice at seint Jame..."
Still, to me it seems rather a matter of personal, ecclesiastical or political vision and choice, as suggested in ... to Sant-Iago in Jacobsland on post28842.html#p28842 . See the picture of King James = IACOBUS REX in miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html on page 1 of this post.
"Jacobus" would not have been used in ordinary conversation and is the Latin form of the name, used in legal references to the monarch, just as Latin is still used to-day in "Elizabeth Regina".
Jacobus and Jacob (I couldn't find them in the Authorized King James Version) are still common names in the West as Ja'akov is in the Middle East. In Re: The Santiago Enigma -Ja’akov & Jacobus– is the name a sign? on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html the question was asked: Nomen est Omen – Is the name a Sign here? “A mental exercise on a possibly significant coincidence (synchronism) concerning the naming of the patriarch Ja’akov (Jacob) and the apostle Jacobus (Major)." What do you think?
I am sure that this has been mentioned many times before in this Forum, but I must add that Santiago or St. James the Great along with his younger brother John were sons of Zebedee and Salome. Salome who may also have been known as Mary was related to the mother of Jesus. Among the Jews, as with many cultures even to-day, the word "brother" was used of a range of male relatives, including cousins.
More interesting sources in Re: The Santiago Enigma by Gareth Thomas on March 23rd, 2008, 12:40 am on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html .

I now think that the answer to all these basic questions (especially The Santiago Enigma) may rather be found in people's hearts and minds then in books.
Thank you again; you made my day; Happy New Year!
 

Arn

Moderator
Staff member
Donating Member
#51
Geert said:the answer to all these basic questions (especially The Santiago Enigma) may rather be found in people's hearts
Not to be too simplistic here...but haven't I been saying that over the last week?

If Christ Jesus is the love and the light in my life...doesn't then the dedication of Santiago to that same Christ come from the heart?

Gosh it's late and I'm not at my best here ... well it's late!

Arn
 
#52
Arn said:
haven't I been saying that over the last week?
Thank you very much for your reaction, Arn, but I must confess that I missed it. Do you refer to Re: So why do you do it...? by Arn on January 2nd, 2009, 12:03 am or Re: Class of 2009 by Arn on December 30th, 2008, 11:21 pm or perhaps also other posts? Please enlighten us!

I'm really glad that we obviously share some vision in this field so I'm now even more curious whether you saw the Pórtico working like a mirror too. I'm really surprised that untill now nobody said they did! Master Matthew made it so clear and simple and -like many secular pilgrims- I too was completely unprepared for that 'inspiring' experience that changed my life. (Or ... perhaps I wasn't that secular and unprepared?)

Good health and good luck!
¡Ultreya!
 

Arn

Moderator
Staff member
Donating Member
#53
Geert,

Today has been hectic, but I’ll try to make some sense of what I meant yesterday about love and light and Santiago. So, going back to some excerpts of my threads:

Re: Class of 2009
by Arn on 30 Dec 2008, 17:21

The Camino is a stern taskmaster that will wring the best from you as you make your Way and seek your personal goals and desires. Each km you trod, every pathway shrine you pass, or vinotinto you share...a new realization about yourself, your friends,or your Faith will surface and make itself known. What you do with the information is yours and yours alone. But understand, you will not leave the Camino the same person you were when you began.
Those most seeking will be comforted, the most pessimistic enlightened, the most confident humbled and the least among us raised in glory.

Comment: Isn’t this the real key that, once again, we may start out for any given number of reasons…but the new information you find out about yourself and the impact it has on your life…will be raised in Glory!

Re: So why do you do it...?
by Arn on 01 Jan 2009, 18:03

Here’s the key part:

So, in keeping to the spirit of this thread…why did I walk the Camino?

I walked the Camino to seek a reward that I could show to my family and friends.
I walked the Camino to receive an indulgence for the many heinous sins I’ve committed.
I walked the Camino to prove my choice in equipment was superior.
I walked the Camino to meet folks to whom I could tell my story, without hearing theirs.
I walked the Camino to eat great food, drink fantastic vino and lose weight.

Now, what did the Camino show me!

The Camino showed me that when I thought I was being confident, I just hadn’t gone far enough yet.
The Camino showed me that my plan of the day wasn’t necessarily His.
The Camino showed me that honesty will get you a bed, where Euros may not.
The Camino showed me that angels appear just when you believe you’re alone and most vulnerable.
The Camino showed me that being a true loner isn’t possible…even when there’s no one else insight.

Comment: I made no intentional effort to create these lines…they just flow with natural energy and inspiration. Would you not say that the “I walked the Camino” is how “I” saw me as I am, while “The Camino showed me” is how the Camino reflected back the reality…or, the mirror image…which is reality.

Re: Happy New Year!
by Arn on 03 Jan 2009, 15:30

The Camino reinvigorated my belief in my Church, strengthened my deep love for my children and rekindled their love for me and, demonstrated that there are folks out there…many on this Forum, and others, that see not a loner, but a doer…for all the right reasons.

Comment: This is it in a nut shell and it ties the theme together. Again, there’s the “mirror” and the “love” arch supported by the three pillars of…Church, family, friends and how I now see my relationship to them and how others see me.

As to the “…Gloria” itself…Sacred Music is both welcoming and uplifting. As you put it so well Geert, what better design than Master Matthew's “brilliant idea to use that long instrument to bridge that gap.”

Here’s a few quotes from Musicae Sacrae
Encyclical on Sacred Music
His Holiness Pope Pius XII
Promulgated on December 25, 1955

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_pi12ms.htm

“Music is among the many and great gifts of nature with which God, in Whom is the harmony of the most perfect concord and the most perfect order, has enriched men, whom He has created in His image and likeness.”

“Later, when the ark of God was taken from the house of Abinadab to the city of David, the king himself and "all Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of wood, on harps and lutes and timbrels and cornets and cymbals."”

Sacred Music, or for that matter any music, is hard to play when one is angry. It sounds discordant, not pleasing to the ear, and the reverb chills the senses, rather than soothes and motivates.

So I guess what I’m try to say is that…if there is an enigma…it’s a creation of one’s own mind…sort of like looking up at a cloud. If ten people are on the same green hillside and gazing up, depending on their present state of mind, they will all see something different, until and unless someone blurts out…”Hey, there’s a pony!” Sure enough the pony will materialize for the believers. Others may never see the pony, but they will see what they believe to be there. Maybe being able to Believe is the key.

regards

Arn
 
#54
Arn said:
the mirror image…which is reality
Dear Arn,
Thank you very much for sharing your feelings with us in this nicely long and interesting reaction! Perfectly shaped for an introduction in The Book, I would say. It took me a while to read the also nicely long Musicae Sacrae and I saw that you quoted from §§ 4 and 7. Already in § 6 I felt quite at home reading: "No one, therefore, will be astonished that always and everywhere, even among pagan peoples…" so you'll understand that I come from different acres approaching these matters.

As you know I was especially struck by the beauty of her poetic writing in Ms King's The Way of Saint James rather then her argumentations on architecture, iconography, symbolism and the veneration of Saint James. So I'm no match for you to discuss these ecclesiastic and religious matters, but… that didn't stop me from seeing something very remarkable in the Glória in the narthex of the cathedral in SdC that I called The Santiago Enigma.

Isn't it amazing, to say the least, that among the now almost 5.000 viewers nobody recognized it and/or took the effort to share this with us!? Your post inspired me to more searching leading to some texts that might suggest a way to explanation (highlighted by me in cardinal purple):

http://www.csj.org.uk/icon.htm - The Confraternity of Saint James - St James: Santiago Peregrino - Notes on the icon in memory of Stephen Badger: "The Confraternity's Treasurer and Librarian, Stephen Badger, died very suddenly in November 1997. Since he had been associated with the pilgrimages both to Santiago and to Mount Athos, his friends in and beyond the Confraternity commissioned this icon of Santiago Peregrino, painted in the Orthodox style by Sister Petra Clare of the Sancti Angeli Benedictine Skete, Inverness. It now hangs in our refuge at Rabanal del Camino". - http://www.sanctiangeli.org [picture below]

"The pilgrims approach the Porticó de la Gloria at Santiago Cathedral. This scene includes pilgrims in both modem and traditional dress. The child (hopefully bearing some resemblance to Stephen’s daughter) is putting her hand on the column with the handprint on it, formed by the numberless venerations of the statue of St James surmounting it. The top roundel replicates, as far as I could from photographs, the iconography of the Porticó de la Gloria. As I was not sure what filled the side roundels of the cathedral I simply replicated the saints with books theme. The top section is painted on a gold leaf base to give it a little extra warmth. Hence the Porticó is a schematic 'map' of the spiritual reality it portrays i.e. Christ in Glory in Heaven."

http://www.jstor.org/pss/767148 Reading Romanesque Sculpture: The Iconography and Reception of the South Portal Sculpture at Santiago de Compostela - Karen Rose Mathews - Gesta, Vol. 39, No. 1 (2000), pp. 3-12 - Published by: International Center of Medieval Art :

"Abstract
Although recent scholarship and reception theory have demonstrated the importance of audience in the actualization of meaning in images and texts, more concerted attention is necessary to understand the polyvalent iconographic readings of Romanesque sculpture. Imagery on the south portal of the cathedral of Santiago conveyed messages of ecclesiastical authority to specific audiences, namely the cathedral chapter and inhabitants of the town. The unseverable link between the cathedral of Santiago and pilgrimage, however, has caused scholars to overlook the importance of the local population as an audience for the cult of St. James and the art patronage program of the cathedral's bishop, Diego Gelmírez (1100-1140). This paper will explore the reception of the iconography of the cathedral's south portal by various audiences in the twelfth century. The cathedral canons and townspeople may have responded to the imagery in a manner diametrically opposed to the prescribed reading of this sculptural ensemble commissioned by the bishop. The audiences' multiple readings, mis-readings, and non-readings of the south portal imagery demonstrate the indeterminacy inherent in the iconography of Romanesque sculpture and highlight the importance of the dialectical relationship between production and reception to its understanding."


Or, in other (my) words: it might not be so simple at all as until now I thought it would be for (secular) pilgrims, to see this message! To keep our scope small: The Santiago Enigma we're discussing here is not about religion but about the way a message in stone is communicated. It's more about technique than interpretation.

The day after your post I was inclined to tell you the solution, but after a few nights of good sleep I remembered in time Gareth's request on March 22nd, 2008, 3:13 am: "I hope you're not going to make it too easy. Can a spiritual enigma be reduced to the level of a breakfast-time crossword puzzle? If it can be so reduced then it will not be worth seeking out, surely?" And a puzzle it most surely is not as anyone can see!

So I'll leave you and all the other veteran and new pilgrims their chances to experience this wonderful event I had in the early eighties. I promised my friends here to throw a beach party [picture below] when the count passes 10.000 and still nobody has reacted. That'll be the day!

Regards,
Geert
 

Attachments

#55
Santiago Enigma - Pórtico - facial similarities- message

PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
[...] So I'll leave you and all the other veteran and new pilgrims their chances to experience this wonderful event I had in the early eighties. I promised my friends here to throw a beach party [picture above] when the count passes 10.000 and still nobody has reacted. That'll be the day!
Yesterday the count did pass 10.000 and nobody has confirmed the message.
In July the pavillion were I spent so many happy hours watching the waves burnt down [picture below], but I was told it will rise from its ashes like a Phoenix next season.
I'm resting my case now...
Please come over one beautiful morning for a toast and a nice meal on the beach.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year all!
Geerτ
http://pilgrimsplaza-pilgrimage-to-santiago.blogspot.com
 

Attachments

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Many, various, and continuing.
#56
How philosphical. How downright epic!

Some of us don´t indulge in enigmas and puzzles, historic secrets and arcane conspiracies. Personally, I find them exclusive and tedious and ultimately silly.

To me, the portico is exactly what it is: breathtaking to some, just another church sculpture to others, a fascinating mystery to the few. Something for everyone.

To me it is what beauty is. That, and crude stone cruceiros and "almas" along the Way. Every time I see them again, they move me to tears, and they speak to my heart -- a place where there is no math or sacred geometry.
 
#57
Rebekah Scott said:
To me, the portico is exactly what it is: breathtaking to some, just another church sculpture to others, a fascinating mystery to the few. Something for everyone.
Thank you for your intriguing reaction, Rebekah! But, what are you trying to say actually? I do share some of the feelings you are pointing at. It was a once in a lifetime event and it changed my view at art. The beauty was its simplicity; anyone can see it in an instance. I do wish we could have a good chat at the beach next year! Please PM me when we're getting off topic.
 
#58
Gareth Thomas said:
PILGRIMSPLAZA said:
I do hope that you'll earn that lunch! You are getting very close to the enigma I'm talking about.
Oh, Geert: I hope you're not going to make it too easy. Can a spiritual enigma be reduced to the level of a breakfast-time crossword puzzle? If it can be so reduced then it will not be worth seeking out, surely?


On the other hand there are no hidden mysteries, but only one unhidden mystery: God loves us.

And that is all. The lovers of mysteries always find that one, unhidden, astonishing mystery, very hard to accept. But it is all.

Gareth
It is true that if mystery is explained, then the illusion is shattered. Many people cannot face that.

God loves us? Tell that to the victims of Belsen and Sobibor.
 
#59
Let's please stick to the topic here...

Millie Mochila said:
[...] if mystery is explained, then the illusion is shattered [...]
Maybe, but The Santiago Enigma contains a serious question on reading a stone bible and interpreting an iconographic programm. This is not about mysteries or illusions but about seeing what you are looking at. Anyone? [Please PM me on the other also serious matters if you like.]
 

TerryB

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte/Primitivo (April/May) 2009: Norte/Primitivo (parts) (April/May) 2010: Inglés (May) 2011: Primitivo (April/May) 2012: Norte / Camino de La Reina (April/May) 2013: Camino del Mar / Inglés (May/June) 2015
#60
Millie Mochila said:
It is true that if mystery is explained, then the illusion is shattered. Many people cannot face that.

God loves us? Tell that to the victims of Belsen and Sobibor.
Hi Millie,
Welcome to the 'Forum'! Looking through your posts we know very little about you as yet! You will realise that the Forum members include all shades of belief and unbelief. Walking and talking with others on the camino only shows the great variety of reasons for pilgrims to walk the way, and the entrance to the Cathedral in Santiago affects people in many different ways. However, whether you come as believer, agnostic or atheist it will speak to you if you allow it to do so and there will be few pilgrims who can remain 'po-faced' on arrival.


Geert -
I do hope that you'll earn that lunch! You are getting very close to the enigma I'm talking about.
It sounds from the above quote as though you have the answer!!!??? Are you able to put us out of our misery?

Blessings for Christmas
(which is all about the vulnerability of God and may just
have something to say about Belsen and Sobibor)
Tio Tel
 
#61
TerryB said:
It sounds from the above quote as though you have the answer!!!??? Are you able to put us out of our misery?
Hi Terry,

Thank you for your reaction! If I remember correctly we already PM'd about this back in 2008.
At the time I was also asked the same [I remember the word misery], but others pleaded 'not to make it too easy'.

Anyway, this is not about what the message of the Pórtico means to me but what it is to you. I already gave some clues in posts like http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html?hilit=mirror#p21219.

To make it easier now the question can also put this way: Why are the faces of the main characters so alike in [blank] expressions and beards? I think that was meant to work like a mirror and later realized what that meant to me. Now the question is: What did you see?

isn't it at least remarkable that those 10.000 views [now, only 2 days later already 10.222] didn't result in 1 answer? There's a law on large numbers against it! Apparently the question lives...

See some pics on http://the-santiago-enigma-clues.blogspot.com ; courtesy of Gareth Thomas.

Merry Christmas, all!
Geerτ
 

TerryB

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#62
the question can also put this way: Why are the faces of the main characters so alike in [blank] expressions and beards?
Depends on what you call 'so alike'. I see the familiar stylised carving which can be found in so many romanesque churches (and other buildings). I think it is a case of the stone mason (not necessarily Master Mateo - he would only oversee the work as a whole) using a familiar template for his facial expressions. After all, Holman Hunt is reputed to have used his sister as the model for "The Light of the World".
You ask me what I see! I see a joyful fellowship of Christ's followers. Those in the outer circle are busily talking to their neighbours. The wonder and joy on so many faces has been captured by Master Mateo and his disciples. And then we step into the cathedral itself to find . . . . . . .?
On 16th May this year we were in the cathedral for Pilgrims' Mass. Marvellous! The practising of the chants for worship was done with great enthusiasm. During the Service itself the sense of worship and fellowship was awesome!
On the following day we went again and right from the word go it was dead! Hardly any response from the congregation during practise - we felt sorry for the sister as she worked so hard at it.
So . . . . just because you enter through the 'Portico de Gloria' does not mean that everything will be O.K. We may find that there is still work to do.

Your 'question' reminds me of one reputedly set by the examiners at Oxford University.:-
Question - "Why?"
Answer (by one enterprising student) - "Why Not?"

Blessings
Tio Tel
 
#63
TerryB said:
using a familiar template for his facial expressions
Splendid! Now we're getting somewhere. I thought about a template at first and that's what I've been told before, but... somewhere [I'll try to find it back] I read that Mateo selected local characters for the faces of his lesser gods. So, the question remains: why a template for the main protagonists? It wasn't laziness, I'm sure. To me it's very clear (the mirror), but is it to you?
 

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