COVID The situation in Spain/Portugal as of July 8th, 2021

[alexwalker]

The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control has issued a newly updated map of Europe, showing all of Portugal and most of Spain in red zone, making them the worst places to be in Europe right now.. Even being fully vaccinated, I am re-evaluating my plans until better news arrive.

Weekly COVID-19 country overview

This weekly report provides an overview of the epidemiological situation of the COVID-19 pandemic and COVID-19 vaccine rollout by country.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

 

[ivar]

I can understand this...

This is Galicia as of today.


Above, current active cases... the up-tick is strong, so it will go up more before it goes down. Most of the people (80%-ish) are younger people (under 30) that has not yet gotten the vaccine. We are vaccinating (in Santiago about 8000 a day) under 40 and started under 30s as well...


Orange - People in Galicia hospitalised due to COVID
Blue - People in intensive care due to COVID.

Not as big a reaction, but it might take some days to see this effect. Hopefully small since mostly younger people are getting it + they are currently being vaccinated.

So, yes... a bit scary.. but I still feel we will be in a better place in August/September since we will have most people vaccinated by then. (Personal opinion).

More here:

La quinta ola crece en Galicia con 400 nuevos contagios en un día

El número de casos asciende a 3.231, mientras la presión hospitalaria se mantiene estable con tres pacientes menos en la uci

www.lavozdegalicia.es

 

[trecile]

I wonder if the rates in Spain and Portugal are so high are because they are such popular holiday destinations.

 

[ivar]

I wonder if the rates in Spain and Portugal are so high are because they are such popular holiday destinations.

I think what happened (at least in Spain) is that we ended the mask restrictions outside + places could stay open longer at night. So many young people went partying... and here is the result. I see some places now are going back to having a curfew and closing bars earlier. I think that will help a lot.

The Delta version of the virus is only 11% of the cases in Spain (this will go up)... so there is that.

 

[alexwalker]

It seems Greece is also on the rise: We are going to Krete next week, and today it (Crete) was turned from green to yellow, only days after full opening to tourists. In Spain, Galicia and La Mancha is yellow; the rest is red.

PS: @ivar , thanks for the shipment!

 

[martin1ws]

The European Centre for Decease Prevention and Control has issued a newly updated map of Europe, showing all of Portugal and most of Spain in red zone, making them the worst places to be in Europe right now.. Even being fully vaccinated, I am re-evaluating my plans until better news arrive.
...

I think that I do not re-evaluate my plans now... there will be time some days before my booked flight on September the 2nd. Being fully vaccinated by then and if the pilgrim is carefully (maybe many tests, being outside most of the time, distance, mask, ...) it should be okay to act according to the rules or more carefully. So I want to wait what the rules are for travelling to Spain and walking in Spain then... and what the recommendations are here in the forum then.
Plan B would be a Camino in Germany.

Oh, I hope so much for the pilgrims and even more for the Spanish people, that this is not the beginning of the next wave. But the numbers look so much worse than they did a week and a half ago....

 

[Luka]

In Asturias they call the 5th wave the 'ola joven', the young wave. The number of positive tests is sky high, but like Ivar said the vast majority of infections are in the 15-25 range. Hospital beds stay almost empty so far, but that can take a bit longer. And nobody knows what this will mean for Long Covid.

 

[SabsP]

In Asturias they call the 5th wave the 'ola joven', the young wave. The number of positive tests is sky high, but like Ivar said the vast majority of infections are in the 15-25 range. Hospital beds stay almost empty so far, but that can take a bit longer. And nobody knows what this will mean for Long Covid.

Explains the high rates of Covid infections of young people from the Low Lands coming back from their holidays in Llloret de Mar.
Travelling in itself is not the issue. There is no harm in staying in your own bubble in a hotel or cottage but hanging out together in crowded nightclubs is a different matter!

 

[Former member 91017]

Explains the high rates of Covid infections of young people from the Low Lands coming back from their holidays in Llloret de Mar.
Travelling in itself is not the issue. There is no harm in staying in your own bubble in a hotel or cottage but hanging out together in crowded nightclubs is a different matter!

I wonder what we could see at the end of July with case-rates of walkers being tested at the exit-point.

After all, most pilgrims eventually seek communal dinners, communal experiences (choirs, for example), and albergues are, by definition, communal spaces -- relatively densely packed in enclosed spaces that include shared bathing facilities, laundry areas... I don't think the virus cares too much whether you are panting from dancing or singing a hymn.

Faculty where I am are not going back to campus settings for classes over 20 persons, and those 20 will be put into rooms with seating capacity for 100. It's the lack of ventilation in the buildings... and I can see that being pretty similar to many dining and sleeping arrangements I've encountered.

It's all well and good when we can eat outside, walk outside.... but there is much on a camino that happens with large-enough groups indoors.

My *hope* is for low expression of disease because of high levels of immunization, but there is some serious concern that the Delta variant is stronger than the MRNA vaccines -- especially in those who might travel before the full vaccination has conferred full immunity.

I *want* for this to be over, to recede to the same level of active disease as the annual flu, so I'll be watching closely to see what happens.... but holy-wow.... I do not have the stomach to travel in camino conditions yet.

Hoping for the best for those who are out there now.

 

[SabsP]

True Faye. I was referring to families who form an own bubble already at home and then go on holidays and keep to themselves. Currently I have Belgian friends travelling with their camper through Spain but they are mostly walking and doing outside visits. Dining also outside or in their camper just the two of them. And they already have had both their vaccins.

The reason I will not go on a Camino this year is the fact that I do not trust the ventilation in albergues and the lack of social distancing in small places.

Very happy with our CO2 measurement instrument at work. Here in this country every café and restaurant also has to have one.

 

[ivar]

Very happy with our CO2 measurement instrument at work. Here in this country every café and restaurant also has to have one.

In Galicia as well

 

[Former member 91017]

In Galicia as well

SabineP said:
Very happy with our CO2 measurement instrument at work. Here in this country every café and restaurant also has to have one.

That's very cool! Wish we had that here in Canada.

Mostly I don't think about it for my own work purposes because we are on WFH, and I am not slated to return to campus until Sept '22.

But if we don't get the ventilation sorted out on campus, I've told my dean that I will be lecturing in one of those inflatable T-Rex suits.

 

[Annette london]

Spot the mask here!!
don’t know whether to laugh or cry..

Saw a lovely bride on her big day last week but no dancing or singing at the reception….
Then we see this lot at Wembley!!
seems all wrong to me

Now just wait for the cases to rise
Not a hope in hell for us to walk a Camino this year …or to see our daughter in Italy …or to see my sister in Ireland….
Guess we’ll be living with this for some time to come.

 

[alexwalker]

@Faye Walker @SabineP @Annette london : Yes, I am truly in the thinking-box with regards to my planned Aug./Sept. walk. For now, I just fear my next week 23 days trip to Crete just have to slip away, at the cost of 650 Euros...😡

 

[gen1971]

I am glad to find this blog. I have plane reservations for next week to Lisbon and back, and plan to bike from Porto to Santiago. I am fully vaccinated US citizen, I know that authorities meet every 2weeks to decide if we can enter the country. What is situation with border crossing between Portugal and Spain and back.! Thsnks

 

[alexwalker]

I am glad to find this blog. I have plane reservations for next week to Lisbon and back, and plan to bike from Porto to Santiago. I am fully vaccinated US citizen, I know that authorities meet every 2weeks to decide if we can enter the country. What is situation with border crossing between Portugal and Spain and back.! Thsnks

Welcome to this forum! (not a blog). There is a wealth of Camino info in here, on the world's largest Camino forum. Use the Search function at the upper right corner for anything you need info on.

As the Covid situation is changing daily, noone can advise you here, but check out the current conditions for travelling to each EU country here:

Re-open EU

reopen.europa.eu

 

[trecile]

The reason I will not go on a Camino this year is the fact that I do not trust the ventilation in albergues and the lack of social distancing in small places.

One would hope that those who run albergues would make certain to open windows to provide ventilation, but according to what Luka wrote in this thread, that's not happening.

Last night all windows were closed in the albergue in Roncesvalles. I opened a few, but they were closed again by other pilgrims (and then opened by me again in the middle of the night). Yes, it was a bit cold. But better cold than covid

 

[alexwalker]

One would hope that those who run albergues would make certain to open windows to provide ventilation, but according to what Luka wrote in this thread, that's not happening.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

Albert Einstein

 

[Luka]

I have been on the Camino for 2 full days now and from what I have seen I wouldn't recommend it if you are not vaccinated. Or you should stay in private rooms.

 

[alexwalker]

I have been on the Camino for 2 full days now and from what I have seen I wouldn't recommend it if you are not vaccinated. Or you should stay in private rooms.

Depressing info. But thank you.

 

[JabbaPapa]

It's actually a good thing that these numbers are high in the summer, as that is the period when people will have most resistance to it, and so will be the least likely to get a bad case of it or die.

It's not just the flu, as some have irresponsibly claimed, but it does have some seasonal similarities with that disease.

 

[Former member 91017]

Spot the mask here!!
don’t know whether to laugh or cry..

Saw a lovely bride on her big day last week but no dancing or singing at the reception….
Then we see this lot at Wembley!!
seems all wrong to me

Now just wait for the cases to rise
Not a hope in hell for us to walk a Camino this year …or to see our daughter in Italy …or to see my sister in Ireland….
Guess we’ll be living with this for some time to come. View attachment 104319

Did you take that photo @Annette london? Or are you just sharing it? I ask because something abut it looks like a CGI — there’s a strange regularity to the colour patterns, and some looks of amazement that one would expect to be moving in a wave of reaction are just random, and everyone seems to be the same height… but some women have giant heads…
I have no idea what happened at Wembley… a giant crowd I suppose… but did it look like this? I’m not so certain.
Can you verify? Satisfy my unease?

 

[trecile]

I ask because something abut it looks like a CGI — there’s a strange regularity to the colour patterns,

I agree.
I did find a number of masks - circled in green, but it definitely looks like a lot of heads were photoshopped into the picture, for example the one circled in orange.

 

[Deleted member 93931]

Did you take that photo @Annette london? Or are you just sharing it? I ask because something abut it looks like a CGI — there’s a strange regularity to the colour patterns, and some looks of amazement that one would expect to be moving in a wave of reaction are just random, and everyone seems to be the same height… but some women have giant heads…
I have no idea what happened at Wembley… a giant crowd I suppose… but did it look like this? I’m not so certain.
Can you verify? Satisfy my unease?

It was the semi final of the Euro football thing last night. 60,000 at Wembley watching England play Denmark. England won, the country has gone bananas, pubs were packed, cars tooting. It'll be bedlam on Sunday for the final! I expect both last night and Sunday will be super spreader events!

 

[Jim ME]

Alex, Thanks for the thread. If you scroll down through the information provided you will see this....

3. A common approach for travellers

In view of the difficult epidemiological situation linked to more infectious coronavirus variants, Member States should strongly discourage all non-essential travel to and from ‘dark red’ and discourage all such travel to and from ‘red’ areas.

The bolding is from European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control. So the EU discourages travel to red areas. I have my rough plans set (no reservations yet) to Camino from Sept. 20 to Oct. 22. I was hopeful, but agree with Alex... maybe this is not going to happen.

Sorry your Crete trip is in looking risky. Crete was suppose to be one of the places to go this year.

Jim Walker

 

[Kathy F.]

Spot the mask here!!
don’t know whether to laugh or cry..

Saw a lovely bride on her big day last week but no dancing or singing at the reception….
Then we see this lot at Wembley!!
seems all wrong to me

Now just wait for the cases to rise
Not a hope in hell for us to walk a Camino this year …or to see our daughter in Italy …or to see my sister in Ireland….
Guess we’ll be living with this for some time to come. View attachment 104319

Ooh, Ooh, I found him, I found him!! He's standing next to Waldo.
Seriously, though, I also find this photo very distressing. We are tacking the tourism situation here in Hawaii, with lots of restrictions and conditions. I plan to go to Belgium in a few weeks, I hope I can do it!

 

[Kathy F.]

The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control has issued a newly updated map of Europe, showing all of Portugal and most of Spain in red zone, making them the worst places to be in Europe right now.. Even being fully vaccinated, I am re-evaluating my plans until better news arrive.

Weekly COVID-19 country overview

This weekly report provides an overview of the epidemiological situation of the COVID-19 pandemic and COVID-19 vaccine rollout by country.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

Thank you for this information.
Clearly, the Iberian peninsula is having great difficulties managing this pandemic, for a variety of reasons. I'm not sure what it will take to remedy this situation.
I feel sympathy for pilgrims who are compelled to travel and walk with the illness clearly not yet under control. However, I feel more sadness for my Camino family who live in Spain who have to deal with the fallout of this situation every day.
They are in my prayers.

 

[Albertagirl]

One would hope that those who run albergues would make certain to open windows to provide ventilation

I was a hospitalera in an albergue in 2019, when the crowded nature of the bunks in the donativo albergue made it impossible to enforce the opening of windows at night. Those in upper bunks next to the windows were freezing at night, possibly because they had inadequate bedding with them, so they closed the windows. I found it very difficult to sleep in the heat. This fall, I shall again be volunteering as a hospitalera in that albergue. I have been told that the number of bunks in that crowded dormitory will be decreased. I am planning, for my time there, to try to insure that there is no bunk in the immediate vicinity of the window where the person in the upper bunk may be inclined to keep the window shut. This is, of course, as a precaution against spreading the virus. Given cultural differences, and inadequate bedding among some pilgrims, I do not know if I shall succeed.

 

[Former member 91017]

I agree.
I did find a number of masks - circled in green, but it definitely looks like a lot of heads were photoshopped into the picture, for example the one circled in orange.
View attachment 104327

All the faces have the same degree of focus from foreground to mid-frame, and then all are equally pixelated past that. Weirdest photo I’ve ever seen.
I don’t doubt the crowds because sportsers are going to go sportsing (as my kid says).
But this photo leaves me with questions…. However, there is a cat on my arm, so I’ll leave it at that.

 

[trecile]

However, there is a cat on my arm, so I’ll leave it at that.

😂

 

[SabsP]

Ooh, Ooh, I found him, I found him!! He's standing next to Waldo.
Seriously, though, I also find this photo very distressing. We are tacking the tourism situation here in Hawaii, with lots of restrictions and conditions. I plan to go to Belgium in a few weeks, I hope I can do it!

Please feel free to pm me. I live in Belgium. If I can be of any ( future ) help.

 

[Luka]

I woke up in Pamplona today. Somebody closed the windows in the albergue last night. Most likely because of the noise from the street. Here again no signs saying that the windows should stay open.

It is all a bit ironic. The albergue serves breakfast in plastic because of covid and is not allowed to provide fresh fruits, and pilgrims are living and sleeping indoors together without masks or ventilation...

Every night sharing a room with different pilgrims. Eight hours together in a room without ventilation. It seems the perfect opportunity for a virus.

 

[Annette london]

Did you take that photo @Annette london? Or are you just sharing it? I ask because something abut it looks like a CGI — there’s a strange regularity to the colour patterns, and some looks of amazement that one would expect to be moving in a wave of reaction are just random, and everyone seems to be the same height… but some women have giant heads…
I have no idea what happened at Wembley… a giant crowd I suppose… but did it look like this? I’m not so certain.
Can you verify? Satisfy my unease?

No, I did not take this photo
This image may or may not be CGI but this is exactly how it looked as 60,000 fans walked down Wembley Way on Wednesday night ..it looked surreal

I’m not a great fan of football but I’ll be watching this one on Sunday and wondering how my daughter, married to an Italian and living in Italy will be getting on….a lone voice in the crowd!!
England v Italy

Thank you trecile for taking the time and energy to find so many masks

Hi La Concha…ha ha if you think the English are crazy about football….you haven’t seen the Italians in action where football is concerned!

 

[Luka]

I was a hospitalera in an albergue in 2019, when the crowded nature of the bunks in the donativo albergue made it impossible to enforce the opening of windows at night. Those in upper bunks next to the windows were freezing at night, possibly because they had inadequate bedding with them, so they closed the windows. I found it very difficult to sleep in the heat. This fall, I shall again be volunteering as a hospitalera in that albergue. I have been told that the number of bunks in that crowded dormitory will be decreased. I am planning, for my time there, to try to insure that there is no bunk in the immediate vicinity of the window where the person in the upper bunk may be inclined to keep the window shut. This is, of course, as a precaution against spreading the virus. Given cultural differences, and inadequate bedding among some pilgrims, I do not know if I shall succeed.

Couldn't you just ask/tell pilgrims beforehand? That if they take the bunk next to the window they should be prepared for a cold breeze at night? So they have a chance to choose another bed? I often noticed that I have a different perception on what is cold than southern pilgrims...

 

[Peggy McLaren-Villeneuve]

I can understand this...

This is Galicia as of today.

View attachment 104281
Above, current active cases... the up-tick is strong, so it will go up more before it goes down. Most of the people (80%-ish) are younger people (under 30) that has not yet gotten the vaccine. We are vaccinating (in Santiago about 8000 a day) under 40 and started under 30s as well...

View attachment 104282
Orange - People in Galicia hospitalised due to COVID
Blue - People in intensive care due to COVID.

Not as big a reaction, but it might take some days to see this effect. Hopefully small since mostly younger people are getting it + they are currently being vaccinated.

So, yes... a bit scary.. but I still feel we will be in a better place in August/September since we will have most people vaccinated by then. (Personal opinion).

More here:

La quinta ola crece en Galicia con 400 nuevos contagios en un día

El número de casos asciende a 3.231, mientras la presión hospitalaria se mantiene estable con tres pacientes menos en la uci

www.lavozdegalicia.es

Hello Ivar, we have all our plans in place to head to Spain at the end of August to walk the Camino Frances and Ingles. I really thought this thing was over but it doesn't look like it. We have already purchased our tickets and places are already booked. Do you think it is safe enough for us to continue this journey! I had planned this three times already and actually thought that it was coming to an end.
Could you please tell me your thoughts as to the safety of actually doing the Camino at that time.
Are many people walking right now or has it slowed down again?

 

[Dunny Ramsay]

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

Albert Einstein

I’d add a third: the patience of (most) hospitaleros…

 

[ivar]

Hello Ivar, we have all our plans in place to head to Spain at the end of August to walk the Camino Frances and Ingles. I really thought this thing was over but it doesn't look like it. We have already purchased our tickets and places are already booked. Do you think it is safe enough for us to continue this journey! I had planned this three times already and actually thought that it was coming to an end.
Could you please tell me your thoughts as to the safety of actually doing the Camino at that time.
Are many people walking right now or has it slowed down again?

If you are walking in August or September, I would just wait a little and see... See what things look like at the beginning of August for example. Then decide. My non-professional-gut-feeling is that this 5th wave might be going up fast now, but it might also go back dow just as fast, since the people who are getting infected now is a "small group" (at least compared to earlier waves where the whole population got infected at the same time), now mostly younger people.... also these young people are about to be vaccinated. We are vaccinated by age, and now we are down to "Under 40s" and some places "Under 30s". Local governments are also reacting and there are now a curfews (7-10 days ago there were none) and normal night-life has now been canceled (places need to close early). I think this will have an effect... with the vaccination, late August and September might not look to bad... But who knows.. I would not cancel anything yet, but just hold tight.

 

[Former member 91017]

No, I did not take this photo
This image may or may not be CGI but this is exactly how it looked as 60,000 fans walked down Wembley Way on Wednesday night ..it looked surreal

I’m not a great fan of football but I’ll be watching this one on Sunday and wondering how my daughter, married to an Italian and living in Italy will be getting on….a lone voice in the crowd!!
England v Italy

Thank you trecile for taking the time and energy to find so many masks

Hi La Concha…ha ha if you think the English are crazy about football….you haven’t seen the Italians in action where football is concerned!

On the upside: I saw a pile more masks when I went to the photo after @trecile made her circles. I’d estimate about 30% are actually masked… but it matters not because I’m pretty sure that’s a CGI.

To be perfectly honest, I see no more risk in this massive gathering for creating super-spreader events than I see in standard pilgrim behaviours of shared sleeping quarters, shared bathroom quarters, communal meals and *transiting from province to province* all the way across a country.

I would lay money on the still relatively low level of vaccination — often enough AZ which is less efficacious against variants — for residents in Spain with the arrival of tourists (that would be us).

If I had my way…. pilgrims — if not regular tourists — could be compelled to send as much money to Spain over the course of 2021 as they had planned to spend on the ground on a walk, and we would all wait for destination locations to hit at least 75% vaccination, and for ourselves to have received the variant booster anticipated for November 2021.

 

[alexwalker]

If you are walking in August or September, I would just wait a little and see... See what things look like at the beginning of August for example. Then decide. My non-professional-gut-feeling is that this 5th wave might be going up fast now, but it might also go back dow just as fast, since the people who are getting infected now is a "small group" (at least compared to earlier waves where the whole population got infected at the same time), now mostly younger people.... also these young people are about to be vaccinated. We are vaccinated by age, and now we are down to "Under 40s" and some places "Under 30s". Local governments are also reacting and there are now a curfews (7-10 days ago there were none) and normal night-life has now been canceled (places need to close early). I think this will have an effect... with the vaccination, late August and September might not look to bad... But who knows.. I would not cancel anything yet, but just hold tight.

I think that’s wise advice. Things are changing rapidly, but with increase in vaccinations things will ease up IMHO.

 

[Jim ME]

In thinking about Ivar's advice, I agree on wait and see for September. Theoretically all non-citizens of Spain should be vaccinated prior to arrival. So, unless there are unvaccinated citizens staying in your room, you should be okay. Now I do know it is possible to be vaccinated and carry and pass Covid. I believe that risk would be small particularly if your staying with 60 year old plus. I am going to wait until mid-August and see how Spain does on vaccination rates and spread. I am excited to walk and add a little money to the Spain economy if risk meets my individual requirement.

 

[Albertagirl]

Couldn't you just ask/tell pilgrims beforehand? That if they take the bunk next to the window they should be prepared for a cold breeze at night? So they have a chance to choose another bed? I often noticed that I have a different perception on what is cold than southern pilgrims...

We could try this, or put up signs. But I prefer to be able to guarantee that the windows (there aren't many and they are high up) cannot be reached by pilgrims from upper beds. As I shall be there the last two weeks of November and have been told not to expect that we shall be full, I am hoping that this will be doable.

 

[trecile]

Theoretically all non-citizens of Spain should be vaccinated prior to arrival.

Unfortunately, Spain has dropped this requirement for citizens of many countries, including the US. This is from the US embassy in Madrid.

In order to entry into Spain you do not need to show any health certificate. That is, you can travel regardless having any vaccination, diagnostic or recovery certificate.

You can also check this Spanish government website to see what the entry requirements are from other countries.

Travel Safe. Spain - Travel Safe in english

Travelling to Spain? Learn about all the requirements before, during and after your trip to Spain. Come to Spain, we can offer you a safe holiday

travelsafe.spain.info

 

[mvanert]

The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control has issued a newly updated map of Europe, showing all of Portugal and most of Spain in red zone, making them the worst places to be in Europe right now.. Even being fully vaccinated, I am re-evaluating my plans until better news arrive.

Weekly COVID-19 country overview

This weekly report provides an overview of the epidemiological situation of the COVID-19 pandemic and COVID-19 vaccine rollout by country.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

Me too. Not good news.

 

[Peggy McLaren-Villeneuve]

If you are walking in August or September, I would just wait a little and see... See what things look like at the beginning of August for example. Then decide. My non-professional-gut-feeling is that this 5th wave might be going up fast now, but it might also go back dow just as fast, since the people who are getting infected now is a "small group" (at least compared to earlier waves where the whole population got infected at the same time), now mostly younger people.... also these young people are about to be vaccinated. We are vaccinated by age, and now we are down to "Under 40s" and some places "Under 30s". Local governments are also reacting and there are now a curfews (7-10 days ago there were none) and normal night-life has now been canceled (places need to close early). I think this will have an effect... with the vaccination, late August and September might not look to bad... But who knows.. I would not cancel anything yet, but just hold tight.

Thank you so much for your reply Ivar, we will keep an eye on it then. Again Thanks!

 

[El Cascayal]

COVID remains a moving target. It seems younger un-vaccinated persons are fueling the recent uptick, with less severe infections, not requiring hospitalization. As younger folks become eligible for vaccines, it follows that there should be a decreased incidence.
Below are official Spanish graphs from yesterday. I have cautious great hope.
When I walked in early June, I kept windows open, getting up a lot and spoke with bunk mates all including young newlyweds who were Spanish nurses had been vaccinated.
Those in Spain are best source of information on this. Thank you.
Aymarah

 

[Jim ME]

Unfortunately, Spain has dropped this requirement for citizens of many countries, including the US. This is from the US embassy in Madrid.

In order to entry into Spain you do not need to show any health certificate. That is, you can travel regardless having any vaccination, diagnostic or recovery certificate.

You can also check this Spanish government website to see what the entry requirements are from other countries.

Travel Safe. Spain - Travel Safe in english

Travelling to Spain? Learn about all the requirements before, during and after your trip to Spain. Come to Spain, we can offer you a safe holiday

travelsafe.spain.info

Wow... I did not know this. That changes my thoughts and increases the level of risk. Thanks

 

[Kathar1na]

Unfortunately, Spain has dropped this requirement for citizens of many countries, including the US.

@trecile is right. Currently, Spain allows travellers from numerous countries into Spain without proof of either vaccination or negative test results, for example from the USA, France, Germany, Italy with the exception of Friuli-Venezia Giulia and many others ... you cannot count on everybody being vaccinated in your dormitory.

Spain's list of risk countries/EU risk zones is updated every 7 days and you find it here: https://www.mscbs.gob.es/en/profesionales/saludPublica/ccayes/alertasActual/nCov/spth.htm - click on Risk Countries/Areas. Attention, they will switch to a different way of listing their EU risk zones as of 12 July 2021. Only travellers from what Spain classifies as risk countries/EU risk zones have to have proof of vaccination or negative test result when they arrive in Spain.

 

[Peggy McLaren-Villeneuve]

Thank you so much for your reply Ivar, we will keep an eye on it then. Again Thanks!

COVID remains a moving target. It seems younger un-vaccinated persons are fueling the recent uptick, with less severe infections, not requiring hospitalization. As younger folks become eligible for vaccines, it follows that there should be a decreased incidence.
Below are official Spanish graphs from yesterday. I have cautious great hope.
When I walked in early June, I kept windows open, getting up a lot and spoke with bunk mates all including young newlyweds who were Spanish nurses had been vaccinated.
Those in Spain are best source of information on this. Thank you.
Aymarah

Yeah I guess they are rushing a little too soon to open everything up! Two steps forward and three steps back!

 

[Tincatinker]

I really thought this thing was over but it doesn't look like it... actually thought that it was coming to an end.

Peggy, I'm sorry for your situation but I cannot sympathise. Whatever made you think that a global Pandemic which is still killing many people every day was over? The Delta variant is just the latest. This will be over when we reach Omega; except it won't - just wait for Alpha 2.

That said the reality is that you must make your own decisions based on your own assessment of the risk to your own health and the health of others that you might encounter. All the information you need is widely available from official government websites, in Europe, Spain and your own government. I would avoid news media and social media, each of which has their own agenda: especially in publishing the news that they think their readers want to hear.

If vaccinated you will have the protection afforded by that vaccine. If you take appropriate precautions in risky environments you will have that additional protection

 

[Patricia43]

Alex, Thanks for the thread. If you scroll down through the information provided you will see this....

3. A common approach for travellers

In view of the difficult epidemiological situation linked to more infectious coronavirus variants, Member States should strongly discourage all non-essential travel to and from ‘dark red’ and discourage all such travel to and from ‘red’ areas.

The bolding is from European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control. So the EU discourages travel to red areas. I have my rough plans set (no reservations yet) to Camino from Sept. 20 to Oct. 22. I was hopeful, but agree with Alex... maybe this is not going to happen.

Sorry your Crete trip is in looking risky. Crete was suppose to be one of the places to go this year.

Jim Walker

Agree - I missed last year and was hopeful about the Portuguese this Sept.. I am 78 in Dec so a bit worried about pulling this together again - But encouraged by memories of slow, but sure older (than me) walkers on my 2019 Camino

 

[Former member 98118]

' most of Spain in red zone, making them the worst places to be in Europe right now.'

As a pilgrim walking through Navarre at this moment, I dare to disagree. From my perspective, it seems not like the worst, but like the happiest place on the earth now 😉
Still don't know how to post pictures from the phone, but if you have pictures of Camino Frances before the covid, just erase 80% of pilgrims from the old picture and you got it 😀
It is a PERFECT July 2021 Camino!
Wish all of you were here for the dinner tonight! The Spirit of Camino is Alive![/QUOTE]

 

[TrvlDad1]

Based on my personal, non-professional reading of the data, break-through cases in the U.S. (where most cases are now the Delta variant) for the fully vaccinated are virtually non-existent, deaths are miniscule and mostly among the unvaccinated with co-morbidities, hospitalizations are low and mostly the unvaccinated, and cases are rising primarily among the younger unvaccinated. So I think personally the risk is low. I am over 70, was vaccinated in December and January and have been traveling since February, including two overseas trips. I am cautious, but no longer fearful...I'm back to believing the riskiest part of my travel is the drive to the airport.
Good luck and safe travels to all. I can't wait to get back to the Camino again, probably in December, by which time, I hope we are talking exclusively about the weather, boots, etc.
P.S. I never believe numbers presented as percentages (up or down) without looking at he underlying raw numbers. They are easily misleading and generally useless for decisions.

 

[Marcus-UK]

I think what happened (at least in Spain) is that we ended the mask restrictions outside + places could stay open longer at night. So many young people went partying... and here is the result. I see some places now are going back to having a curfew and closing bars earlier. I think that will help a lot.

The Delta version of the virus is only 11% of the cases in Spain (this will go up)... so there is that.

The UK is experiencing a resurgence in Covid infections. Nearly 70 % of the population is fully vaccinated and 80 % plus partially vaccinated. Most of the severely at risk group have been vaccinated (or in a significant number of cases people declined the vaccination)
I have not seen the published breakdown of the new infections, but I suspect the majority are the young and fit with a low risk profile for a serious Covid infection with side effects.
My suspicion is that the UK Government is now making decisions on the probability that the UK has achieved herd immunity. I have aslo not seen any official figures for vaccinated people who have later developed Covid or even more important recovered Covid sufferers who have been reinfected.

 

[LTfit]

Explains the high rates of Covid infections of young people from the Low Lands coming back from their holidays in Llloret de Mar.
Travelling in itself is not the issue. There is no harm in staying in your own bubble in a hotel or cottage but hanging out together in crowded nightclubs is a different matter!

Indeed! This is the development in The Netherlands this week.
Tonight announcement expected with an earlier closing of night clubs and restaurants. Hopefully festivals will be cancelled.

 

[Wanderingfriend]

Thank you so much for your reply Ivar, we will keep an eye on it then. Again Thanks

If you are walking in August or September, I would just wait a little and see... See what things look like at the beginning of August for example. Then decide. My non-professional-gut-feeling is that this 5th wave might be going up fast now, but it might also go back dow just as fast, since the people who are getting infected now is a "small group" (at least compared to earlier waves where the whole population got infected at the same time), now mostly younger people.... also these young people are about to be vaccinated. We are vaccinated by age, and now we are down to "Under 40s" and some places "Under 30s". Local governments are also reacting and there are now a curfews (7-10 days ago there were none) and normal night-life has now been canceled (places need to close early). I think this will have an effect... with the vaccination, late August and September might not look to bad... But who knows.. I would not cancel anything yet, but just hold tight.

Ivar, thank you. Your words seem prudent and wise to me. I am scheduled to fly into Spain on August 26th and plan to walk starting the first of Sept. I am fully vaccinated. I am assuming that people walking the Camino are fully vaccinated as well, due to entrance regulations. One of my fears is the people along the way that are working on the Camino. I know one establishment that told me that vitamins would stop the virus and that they are not getting the vaccine. I wonder about this. I would feel much better if I knew there were some regulations around people working the camino. Thoughts?

 

[Wanderingfriend]

The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control has issued a newly updated map of Europe, showing all of Portugal and most of Spain in red zone, making them the worst places to be in Europe right now.. Even being fully vaccinated, I am re-evaluating my plans until better news arrive.

Weekly COVID-19 country overview

This weekly report provides an overview of the epidemiological situation of the COVID-19 pandemic and COVID-19 vaccine rollout by country.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

Me too.

 

[MarkyD]

The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control has issued a newly updated map of Europe, showing all of Portugal and most of Spain in red zone, making them the worst places to be in Europe right now.. Even being fully vaccinated, I am re-evaluating my plans until better news arrive.

Weekly COVID-19 country overview

This weekly report provides an overview of the epidemiological situation of the COVID-19 pandemic and COVID-19 vaccine rollout by country.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

It's to be expected really. Once the controls were relaxed in an attempt to save the tourist and hospitality industries, the resulting increase in public mixing within close distances and shared spaces was always going to produce an increase in infection rates. Even vaccinated people can still be carriers of the virus and infect others.
The relaxing of rules around wearing face masks is unlikely to be the main factor, as many Spanish people still choose to wear face masks as a precaution. I live in Madrid and I've recently been to areas where the CF passes through (Ponferrada, Cacabelos, Villafranca-del-Bierzo, O Cebereiro, Samos, Sarria and Portomarín). I've seen many local people wearing pasks, but not everyone. Most of the pilgrims I saw in the last 5 days were mainly Spanish, often small family groups. Very few were wearing masks, and there were large groups of people congregating at bars to have lunch etc. On entering bars and shops, face masks are still obligatory. Most people I saw were respecting that rule.
But despite various control methods to reduce transmission, I believe that the single most significant factor is numbers of people getting together and moving from one place to another (family to family, village to village, city to city, country to country). Add to that the more infectious Delta variant, then the risks cocktail just becomes stronger.

 

[Kathar1na]

This map where Portugal and Spain are now coloured red, with the exception of Galicia and Castilla La Mancha, is based on three indicators, one of them is the 14 days incidence rate.

There is a discussion going on whether these three indicators alone are still useful, or whether one should also look at other indicators such as the number of severe Covid-19 cases that require hospitalisation, at the number of Covid-19 deaths over a certain recent period of time, and at the number of vaccinated persons in a country, in order to assess public health risk levels in a meaningful way.

 

[Wanderingfriend]

Depressing info. But thank you.

THis is really depressing. My question is how about restaurants? Are there options for eating outside?

 

[Wanderingfriend]

The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control has issued a newly updated map of Europe, showing all of Portugal and most of Spain in red zone, making them the worst places to be in Europe right now.. Even being fully vaccinated, I am re-evaluating my plans until better news arrive.

Weekly COVID-19 country overview

This weekly report provides an overview of the epidemiological situation of the COVID-19 pandemic and COVID-19 vaccine rollout by country.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

My other concern is over insurance and whether my health insurance will cover me if I go into a "red" zone.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Very happy with our CO2 measurement instrument at work. Here in this country every café and restaurant also has to have one.

I don't know what this is?

 

[Wanderingfriend]

Just two days ago, I was beginning to dream that this would actually become a reality. Now, I am wondering. Does anyone know about the stipulations for those working on the camino? I know of one establishment that is run by someone who is depending on vitamins to protect them against the Sars Corona virus. This is very concerning.

 

[Harington]

I can understand this...

This is Galicia as of today.

View attachment 104281
Above, current active cases... the up-tick is strong, so it will go up more before it goes down. Most of the people (80%-ish) are younger people (under 30) that has not yet gotten the vaccine. We are vaccinating (in Santiago about 8000 a day) under 40 and started under 30s as well...

View attachment 104282
Orange - People in Galicia hospitalised due to COVID
Blue - People in intensive care due to COVID.

Not as big a reaction, but it might take some days to see this effect. Hopefully small since mostly younger people are getting it + they are currently being vaccinated.

So, yes... a bit scary.. but I still feel we will be in a better place in August/September since we will have most people vaccinated by then. (Personal opinion).

More here:

La quinta ola crece en Galicia con 400 nuevos contagios en un día

El número de casos asciende a 3.231, mientras la presión hospitalaria se mantiene estable con tres pacientes menos en la uci

www.lavozdegalicia.es

In the UK we have 35,000!

 

[Kathar1na]

My other concern is over insurance and whether my health insurance will cover me if I go into a "red" zone.

No insurance company in the whole wide world uses the ECDC map as a basis for their insurance policies/contracts.

 

[alexwalker]

We are all in the same boat, just wanting to walk again, but for me, fully vaccinated, there is still a (small) risk. I, wait a little.

What we are seeing IMHO, are the conseqenses of (too early) relaxations, primarily based on desperate needs for tourist economy boost in some Med countries.

Take Crete: it turned green on Monday; yesterday it turned yellow/orange, which nesns that every traveller from there ( within EU) now will have to quarantine when returning home.

Facebook is starting to put out posts offering cheap tickets from people who cannot afford that. It truly is a fluid situation now.

 

[Wanderingfriend]

We are all in the same boat, just wanting to walk again, but for me, fully vaccinated, there is still a (small) risk. I, wait a little.

What we are seeing IMHO, are the conseqenses of (too early) relaxations, primarily based on desperate needs for tourist economy boost in some Med countries.

Take Crete: it turned green on Monday; yesterday it turned yellow/orange, which nesns that every traveller from there ( within EU) now will have to quarantine when returning home.

Facebook is starting to put out posts offering cheap tickets from people who cannot afford that. It truly is a fluid situation now.

Yes. I will be watching closely and will decide in a few weeks if I will proceed.

 

[Wanderingfriend]

Wow... I did not know this. That changes my thoughts and increases the level of risk. Thanks

This is very concerning.

 

[SabsP]

I don't know what this is?

Carbon dioxide sensor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rozenn]

I think what happened (at least in Spain) is that we ended the mask restrictions outside + places could stay open longer at night. So many young people went partying... and here is the result. I see some places now are going back to having a curfew and closing bars earlier. I think that will help a lot.

The Delta version of the virus is only 11% of the cases in Spain (this will go up)... so there is that.

 

[Rozenn]

Totally agree with you Ivar! Nice to
Have met you today in person! You look younger that on zoom!!

 

[Wanderingfriend]

Hello Ivar, we have all our plans in place to head to Spain at the end of August to walk the Camino Frances and Ingles. I really thought this thing was over but it doesn't look like it. We have already purchased our tickets and places are already booked. Do you think it is safe enough for us to continue this journey! I had planned this three times already and actually thought that it was coming to an end.
Could you please tell me your thoughts as to the safety of actually doing the Camino at that time.
Are many people walking right now or has it slowed down again?

Peggy, I am in the same boat. Please keep me updated as to your thinking.

 

[barnettstakeagiantstep]

Depressing info. But thank you.

I agree it is depressing, says the usually positive woman.

 

[henrythedog]

In the UK we are very likely to remove pretty much all legal restrictions imposed due to COVID in about two weeks time.
The government policy is ‘to rely on the common sense of the English people’ (the devolved administrations make their own rules).

As a native I’m having to consider how much common sense my average associates display.

Then I realise that half the population has less common sense than that.

This isn’t over by quite some way.

I’d be surprised if half the home spectators at the Euro soccer final on Sunday have a shirt on, let alone a mask.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Carbon dioxide sensor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why do they need these? Can I find out more by googling it? Does it have to do with COVID???
Are there threads about it? I'll go try to search.

 

[alexwalker]

In the UK we are very likely to remove pretty much all legal restrictions imposed due to COVID in about two weeks time.
The government policy is ‘to rely on the common sense of the English people’ (the devolved administrations make their own rules).

As a native I’m having to consider how much common sense my average associates display.

Then I realise that half the population has less common sense than that.

This isn’t over by quite some way.

I’d be surprised if half the home spectators at the Euro soccer final on Sunday have a shirt on, let alone a mask.

I watched the match. I couldn’t believe the ignorant crowds of, was it, 60.000? Inside a limited space stadion…

 

[SabsP]

Why do they need these? Can I find out more by googling it? Does it have to do with COVID???
Are there threads about it? I'll go try to search.

Of corse it has to do with Covid! Ventilation is key to keep virusparticles away!!
You do not " need " them but it is a reassurance to know that my office is safe in terms of ventilation. Or the smaller pub I visit inside takes fresh air seriously.
Bigger spaces with open windows and tables far apart are pretty safe anyway.

 

[trecile]

Why do they need these? Can I find out more by googling it? Does it have to do with COVID???
Are there threads about it? I'll go try to search.

The Carbon Dioxide detectors show how fresh and clean the indoor air is.
From this article

Experts say one way to measure how well-ventilated certain spaces are is by checking how much carbon dioxide is in the air. People exhale carbon dioxide, so the amount of it in a room gives you an idea of how much of the air is made up of other people’s breath. It’s not a perfect measure of danger — it won’t tell you if there is actually virus around — but it’s a pretty good proxy for how risky a room could be.

 

[SabsP]

I watched the match. I couldn’t believe the ignorant crowds of, was it, 60.000? Inside a limited space stadion…

Yeah but so much safer than the 90.000 they wanted first...🙄
The mind boggles.

 

[gittiharre]

The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control has issued a newly updated map of Europe, showing all of Portugal and most of Spain in red zone, making them the worst places to be in Europe right now.. Even being fully vaccinated, I am re-evaluating my plans until better news arrive.

Weekly COVID-19 country overview

This weekly report provides an overview of the epidemiological situation of the COVID-19 pandemic and COVID-19 vaccine rollout by country.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

Bugger. I was planning to walk Primitivo and Finesterre routes, all booked. Ended up abandoning my beautiful plan.
It is heartbreaking for Spain and Portugal, but really, why did you open the doors to Delta infestation???

 

[Former member 91017]

Bugger. I was planning to walk Primitivo and Finesterre routes, all booked. Ended up abandoning my beautiful plan.
It is heartbreaking for Spain and Portugal, but really, why did you open the doors to Delta infestation???

tell me you didn't just blame the victim? Especially when people with the means for holidays simply refuse to send their money to beloved locations unless then can be in (maybe not so very) beloved locations?

Open the doors to meeeeeee! Because I want, want, want. But why did you let those other people who are not me in?

Tourist dependent areas do need money, and if we won't send it (to the pilgrim support organizations, to Sanish exporters of wine/food/textiles etc, to individual albergues that we have loved, to places like Casa Ivar for the merchandise sold there...) then they have to open their doors.

 

[gittiharre]

Omg! I did donate and support. Spain would be so much better off being strategic with locations they accept visitors from.

 

[Annette london]

On the upside: I saw a pile more masks when I went to the photo after @trecile made her circles. I’d estimate about 30% are actually masked… but it matters not because I’m pretty sure that’s a CGI.

To be perfectly honest, I see no more risk in this massive gathering for creating super-spreader events than I see in standard pilgrim behaviours of shared sleeping quarters, shared bathroom quarters, communal meals and *transiting from province to province* all the way across a country.

I would lay money on the still relatively low level of vaccination — often enough AZ which is less efficacious against variants — for residents in Spain with the arrival of tourists (that would be us).

If I had my way…. pilgrims — if not regular tourists — could be compelled to send as much money to Spain over the course of 2021 as they had planned to spend on the ground on a walk, and we would all wait for destination locations to hit at least 75% vaccination, and for ourselves to have received the variant booster anticipated for November 2021.

You must have good eyes Faye And yes it may have been computer generated…at least that one
these crowds are out in the open air but I agree with you that it was mainly the closed spaces without any ventilation that caused and is causing the spread of the virus ….Supermarkets, Buses, indoor pubs etc etc

this year we won’t walk a Camino and it’s mainly because of all the hassle at airports plus all the testing when returning home ..and anyway we’ve had 2 great years with our walking holidays at home
Best wishes
Annette
PS sending you some non computer generated photos!!

 

[Albertagirl]

COVID remains a moving target. It seems younger un-vaccinated persons are fueling the recent uptick

This seems to be the common opinion of posters on this thread. I was thinking, "O, those young men in crowds at sporting events. I have heard that their brains are not fully developed until their mid twenties." Then I opened the morning mail, containing a credit card bill for my September flight to Spain.

 

[Luka]

tell me you didn't just blame the victim? Especially when people with the means for holidays simply refuse to send their money to beloved locations unless then can be in (maybe not so very) beloved locations?

Open the doors to meeeeeee! Because I want, want, want. But why did you let those other people who are not me in?

Tourist dependent areas do need money, and if we won't send it (to the pilgrim support organizations, to Sanish exporters of wine/food/textiles etc, to individual albergues that we have loved, to places like Casa Ivar for the merchandise sold there...) then they have to open their doors.

Are you now blaming @gittiharre for being disappointed?

 

[gittiharre]

Are you now blaming @gittiharre for being disappointed?

I was very much looking forward to being part of revitalizing tourism in Spain. It could have been done safely...

 

[alexwalker]

Being the OP, i started this thread BC of the complications that the current situation impose on us all who just want to return to our dear Caminos. We all want to return, but the last days have presented sone serious issues in our ways.

Can we please stay on topic?

I am currently in my cottage in the Arctic, sawing and cutting firewood for next season, just in case yet another year at home instead of Spain walkiing (sigh…)…

 

[ivar]

Let’s not get into who is to blame, and focus on what the situation is like now.

 

[Former member 91017]

Are you now blaming @gittiharre for being disappointed?

I am questioning the logic of having bought ticket and also blaming Spain for creating the circumstances that allowed the ticket purchase.

We are *all* disappointed about one thing or another under the cruelties of the pandemic.

 

[Wanderingfriend]

Let’s not get into who is to blame, and focus on what the situation is like now.

Yes. Part of being a pilgrim involves being open to whatever. Although it is disappointing, when the Camino calls it will be the best time.

 

[jungleboy]

Portugal has introduced new rules requiring either vaccination, a negative test or proof of recovery to stay in hotels, or to dine inside on weekends in Lisbon, Porto and some other places:

Portugal orders COVID test, vaccination proof at hotel check-in (Reuters)

 

[henrythedog]

I watched the match. I couldn’t believe the ignorant crowds of, was it, 60.000? Inside a limited space stadion…

It is reported that ‘we’ are going to declare a public holiday if ‘we’ win.

It’s good old bread and circuses.

 

[alexwalker]

Portugal has introduced new rules requiring either vaccination, a negative test or proof of recovery to stay in hotels, or to dine inside on weekends in Lisbon, Porto and some other places:

Portugal orders COVID test, vaccination proof at hotel check-in (Reuters)

Yes, and I just heard on the news that some countries are in the thinking-box about letting in only fully vaccinated visitors. Some people are obviously starting to think now. Which would be good news for us hardcore oldtimers, not? 😎

tell me you didn't just blame the victim? Especially when people with the means for holidays simply refuse to send their money to beloved locations unless then can be in (maybe not so very) beloved locations?

Open the doors to meeeeeee! Because I want, want, want. But why did you let those other people who are not me in?

Tourist dependent areas do need money, and if we won't send it (to the pilgrim support organizations, to Sanish exporters of wine/food/textiles etc, to individual albergues that we have loved, to places like Casa Ivar for the merchandise sold there...) then they have to open their doors.

Faye, we are all in the same boat. I am sure many of us in here have contributed/donated to atleast our favorite places who have signalled their needs in these dire times.

i think many of us in here are Camino veterans with our hearts having a Spanish corner (or more).

i can perfectly understand @gittiharre ‘s frustration of losing ticket money. I am frustrated myself.

Let us not follow the old saying: «when the crib is empty the horses bite» but be kind to each other because in a crazy world we are a flock with common interests. A pretty special flock IMHO.

 

[jflorez]

I have flights booked to return to the CF, from September 7th to the 20th of October. Right now, I am in a 'wait and see' mode. I will hold off until mid August before I make any decision to bail. I appreciate all the posts and commentary of this generous community, especially now as we attempt to navigate through these crazy times and hopefully find ourselves back following the arrows.

 

[CalgaryLynn]

Couldn't you just ask/tell pilgrims beforehand? That if they take the bunk next to the window they should be prepared for a cold breeze at night? So they have a chance to choose another bed? I often noticed that I have a different perception on what is cold than southern pilgrims...

I was just going to say that, get a Canadian, Norwegian, or someone from a cold climate to sleep near the cool breeze. Personally, I would love that!

 

[DenWhite]

I woke up in Pamplona today. Somebody closed the windows in the albergue last night. Most likely because of the noise from the street. Here again no signs saying that the windows should stay open.

It is all a bit ironic. The albergue serves breakfast in plastic because of covid and is not allowed to provide fresh fruits, and pilgrims are living and sleeping indoors together without masks or ventilation...

Every night sharing a room with different pilgrims. Eight hours together in a room without ventilation. It seems the perfect opportunity for a virus.

Sydney is currently in lockdown with the Delta strain running amuck. The best friend of Delta is unvaccinated crowds with no masks. Relaxing mask wearing is giving the virus a licence to spread . Hospitalisation rates are steadily increasing with younger ( under 40) becoming more common and some in ICU. Only when the vast majority of populations are fully vaccinated can social restrictions be relaxed, but in my view, social distancing and mask wearing will be an ongoing necessity for the long term. 'Good Luck UK'

 

[Former member 91017]

Yes, and I just heard on the news that some countries are in the thinking-box about letting in only fully vaccinated visitors. Some people are obviously starting to think now. Which would be good news for us hardcore oldtimers, not? 😎

Faye, we are all in the same boat. I am sure many of us in here have contributed/donated to atleast our favorite places who have signalled their needs in these dire times.

i think many of us in here are Camino veterans with our hearts having a Spanish corner (or more).

i can perfectly understand @gittiharre ‘s frustration of losing ticket money. I am frustrated myself.

Let us not follow the old saying: «when the crib is empty the horses bite» but be kind to each other because in a crazy world we are a flock with common interests. A pretty special flock IMHO.

Sure, but why kick Spain when it's down? And why think that oneself and one's own desire to travel during this high season was fine and good but everyone else who is already there is the Delta scourge?
Viruses do not care why one travels, what one's motivations are in their hearts -- whether it's for the exploitation of oil off the coast of Brazil or in the the far north of Canada (which is how Delta entered Alberta and Ontario), or for the sake of tourism, or for the sake of international trade, viruses will do what they biologically aim to do.

Spain did not "open the doors to the Delta infestation" as was bemoaned. It's not an island; it is part of an economic union with some of the most open transport of goods and services on the planet. Spain has to ship its oranges and olive oil, canola and bio-diesel, cheese, and so forth.

Delta is just the latest iteration of a virus doing what viruses do -- become more efficient at spreading. The next stage in viral mutation is usually that it stops being so deadly -- as after all dead hosts are not useful.

I do trust that many pilgrims have donated and purchased what they could from afar. I am certainly disappointed that after 17 months I still have not been able to send beloved Spouse on his camino Portugues.... But I do not blame Spain, and I do not blame people for living their lives. I do think we can all cool our jets a little about getting to Spain *and commit* to sending more support even if we cannot go.

 

[alexwalker]

Sure, but why kick Spain when it's down? And why think that oneself and one's own desire to travel during this high season was fine and good but everyone else who is already there is the Delta scourge?
Viruses do not care why one travels, what one's motivations are in their hearts -- whether it's for the exploitation of oil off the coast of Brazil or in the the far north of Canada (which is how Delta entered Alberta and Ontario), or for the sake of tourism, or for the sake of international trade, viruses will do what they biologically aim to do.

Spain did not "open the doors to the Delta infestation" as was bemoaned. It's not an island; it is part of an economic union with some of the most open transport of goods and services on the planet. Spain has to ship its oranges and olive oil, canola and bio-diesel, cheese, and so forth.

Delta is just the latest iteration of a virus doing what viruses do -- become more efficient at spreading. The next stage in viral mutation is usually that it stops being so deadly -- as after all dead hosts are not useful.

I do trust that many pilgrims have donated and purchased what they could from afar. I am certainly disappointed that after 17 months I still have not been able to send beloved Spouse on his camino Portugues.... But I do not blame Spain, and I do not blame people for living their lives. I do think we can all cool our jets a little about getting to Spain *and commit* to sending more support even if we cannot go.

Don,t think we should blame anyone about the virus. The rest of us just take precausions to staying alive.

 

[Tincatinker]

Camino. I remember Camino. €50 a day, smiley campesinos tugging their forelocks as I slipped my custom their way. Various Bankers grateful that I’d staved off foreclosure for another interest cycle. And the distant sound of Santo Domingo slapping his head and weeping “what have I done, what have I done?”

 

[C clearly]

Sure, but why kick Spain when it's down? And why think that oneself and one's own desire to travel during this high season was fine and good but everyone else who is already there is the Delta scourge?

I think we all understand the points you are trying to make. The post concerned was a mild lamentation, but it did not really deserve a harsh scolding, and assumptions about motives and willingness to support the people of Spain. We should "aim to be generous" in our interpretations of other members' posts.

 

[Former member 91017]

I think we all understand the points you are trying to make. The post concerned was a mild lamentation, but it did not really deserve a harsh scolding, and assumptions about motives and willingness to support the people of Spain. We should "aim to be generous" in our interpretations of other members' posts.

I think it is entirely fair to question the logic of saying “I had already bought my tickets for the high season, and how dare Spain let Delta in?”, and also entirely necessary to remind people — neither the OP nor the lamanting soul in particular but *all of us*, that there are *other ways* to keep feeding the base that sustains us when times are good.
Scolding Spain for having provided exactly what one seeks only because one is not quite yet on the ground strikes me as deeply cruel.